12-27-1976 - Special 2 Meeting - MinutesV
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MINUTES OF THE JOINT MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
AND THE REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
CITY OF WEST COVINA, CALIFORNIA
DECEMBER 27, 1976
The joint meeting of the City Council and the Redevelopment Agency
was called to order at 9:25 P.M. by Mayor Nevin Browne.
ROLL CALL
City Council: Mayor Browne; Councilmen Miller,
Chappell, Shearer, Tice
Redevelopment Agency: Chairman Browne; Members Miller,
Chappell, Shearer, Tice
Others Present: H..Fast, L. Eliot, L. Preston,
G. Wakefield, G. Salazar,
C. Yoshisaki, E. Cohen, B. Freemon
JOINT PUBLIC'HEARING BY THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF WEST
COVINA AND THE REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY OF THE CITY OF WEST COVINA
ON THE PROPOSED AMENDMENTS TO THE LAND USE PROVISIONS OF THE
CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT REDEVELOPMENT PLAN.
Location: Central Business District Redevelopment Project Area.
Authorized for join public hearing by Council Resolution No.4346
and Redevelopment Agency Resolution No. 131 adopted on November
8, 1976. Request: Proposed amendments would redesignate the
three westernmost parcels in the Redevelopment Project Area from
Office Professional uses to Neighborhood Commercial and Regional
Commercial uses to provide a more flexible potential for future
development, and provide additional language to the text of the
plan regarding land use provisions to clearly state that tush
uses are equivalent to the corresponding zones which are defined
in the City's Municipal Code, zoning ordinances and other
applicable ordinances.
(Proof of Publication in the West Covina. Tribune on December 2, 9
and 16, 1976 received. Affidavit of Mailing Notices.)
Staff reviewed the Report. Staff recommended that if more
information was desired, the public hearing be continued or
terminated until such time that Staff gathered the additional
information and extended mailed notification to include property
owners within 300 feet of the affected parcels.
Motion made by Councilman Shearer, seconded by Councilman Tice
to terminate the proceedings to be re -instituted at such time as
a Socio-Economic Study and an Environmental Study are complete,
and to instruct Staff to extend mailed notification to include
property owners within 300 feet of the affected parcels prior
to any public hearings. Motion carried.
JOINT MEETING Page Two
City Council/Redevelopment Agency December 27, 1976
Motion made by Mr. Shearer, seconded by Mr. Tice to terminate
the proceedings to be re -instituted at such time as a
Socio-Economic Study and an Environmental Study are complete,
Ae and to instruct Staff to extend mailed notification to include
property owners within 300 feet of the affected parcels prior
to any public hearings. Motion carried.
ADJOURNMENT
Motion made by Councilman Tice, seconded by Councilman Miller
to adjourn the meeting at 9:35 P.M. Motion carried.
Motion made by Mr. Shearer, seconded by Mr. Chappell to adjourn
the meeting at 9:35 P.M. Motion carried.
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CITY COUNCIL
WRITTEN COMMUNICATIONS
c).LETTERS RELATING TO TENTATIVE TRACT NO. 33076
Refer to Agenda Item. No. C--2 .
12/13/76
(Page 1)
Gloria Hall requested to speak and the Mayor asked what item she
referred to.
Gloria Hall: It.relates to Written Communications
Item 1-c which refers to agenda item
C-2.
Mayor Browne We will give you the opportunity to
speak right after the Consent Calendar
items - anyone else wish to discuss
or withdraw any item from the Consent Calendar? Does the Council
have any item they wish to withdraw?
(None. Motion was then made and seconded to approve Eonsent
Calendar Items with the, exception of Item 1-c. Motion carried)
Mayor Browne: May I ask Mrs. Hall to come forth
to the lecturn? May I ask you a
question? Inasmuch as this item is
on the Consent Calendar -~ you are speaking in representation
of all the letters that came in from your group?
Mrs. Hall: Yes, that is right.
Mayor Browne: I wish to inform you we appreciate
your holding this to one spokesman,
unless there is any additional
information that is wished to be related to the council that all
others remain seated and allow you to be the spokesman.
Gloria Hall Fine.I am the spokesperson for
2142 Evangelina St., F.I.G.H.T. - Families Involved in
W.C. Good Home Thinking, and I would like
Representative for to express our.objections to the
Families Involved IN proposed Tentative. Tract 33076.
Good Home Thinking We, homeowners, would hope that you
would deny the approval of the pro-
posed apartment complex because of
the following reasons: 1 - The Environmental Impact Report (EIR)
dated October 1974 is out of date and we cite the three following
as examples. The EIR refers to a school site' for a Gingrich
School which is no longer a school site but in fact a site for
homes which have been built and occuppied. Secondly, the EIR
refers to the community composition which existed before homes
were built prior to 1972 and in fact there was no Hearthstone
Development, no New American Homes Development and no Influential
Homes Tract. Thirdly, the EIR mentions the selling prices of the
houses located west and south of Shadow Oak. Selling prices
listed were ranging from $15,000 to $20,000, when today homes in
Influential Tract are sold..at $63,000 and above. At Hearthstone
they are being sold at $49,000 and above. We feel the EIR is in-
adequate as it relates to the proposed apartment complex. The
EIR was prepared for Umark, the owner of the land which was.
developed by Butler and known as the Influential Homes Tract. The
EIR, the impact which the Influential.Homes Tract.has on the
surrounding area and not the impact of,the proposed apartment
complex.
We do not -believe the City complied
with the Environmental Quality Act of 1970 as it relates to a
Negative Declaration. CE:QIA requires the City to give the public
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I y n p� l- 12/13/76
HI TECI�� GAUNICATIONS: Re TT #33076 (Page 2)
sufficient notice of a Negative Declaration and we, as homeowners,
do not believe the City complied when they sent or required the
developer to send notices to the homeowners living within 300' of
the proposed apartment complex, which meant three homeowners
were notified. If the planning staff maintains that this notice,
which Was a notice that .the Planning Commission was to hear
before them, a proposed apartment complex rather than a Notice of
a Negative Declaration — if the planning staff feels this complies,
with the intent of CL-QA? as it relates to a Negative Declaration
we do not feel that the City complied with the intent of C.Ep
which is to make provisions in the procedures for wide public
involvement, formal and informal, in order to properly receive
and evaluate public reactions, adverse as well as favorable
based on environment issues.
The Planning Staff in-dicates in its
report dated December 1, 1976, that the developer mus-t-comply with
MF-20 zone which requires a 6' high.masonry wall to be provided
and maintained on the boundary which abutes or lies across from
single family zoning and yet the staff report indicates that the
developer can put up a 3' wall. And, I might add there was no
request by the developer for a Variance nor was a Variance granted.
This is only one example of possibly several instances where the
developer does not comply with applicable local and State codes,
which I might add given time an attorney with expertise in this
field can discern whether or not the developer has met the applicable
"codes" in this instance.
We,homeowners,do not feel that an
adults only apartment will help our community in getting schools
which the Woodside Village area desperately needs.
We would like to know how the parking
problem which was not addressed at the hearings will be alleviated.
We were told at the hearing that the slopes would discourage people
from immediate access to their apartments and therefore discourage
them from parking on the streets. I would like to add that there
is no slope on Woodgate, which faces the Influential homeowners
when they exit -and enter onto Evangelina. Furthermore, I do have an
instant polaroid picture of the area that I am referring too.
We, homeowners, do not believe that the
apartment complex fits the objective of a Planned Community Develop—
ment zone, that.of a quality residential -environment. We would hope
that the City of West Covina could point to the Woodside Village
as a model Planned Community for other communities to follow. If
the City Council does not believe they can deny the proposed apart—
ment complex at this time we would hope that -you would postpone your
decision at this time to give due consideration to the concerns we
have brought in at this time.
In addition tonight, I have brought a
petition requesting that the Woodside Village Master Plan be
changed as it relates to the proposed apartment complex site and
the two acre commercial site which are located south of Amar, west
of Nogales, east of Woodgate and north of Francesca. The petition
has been signed by 176 concerned homeowners, the majority living
in the Influential Homes Tract and including some prospective
homeowners.
We, homeowners, feel that the Master
Plan should be updated for the follo-wing reasons:
CITY COUNCIL 12/13/76
WRITTEN COMMUNICATIONS: Re TT #33076 (Page 3)
1: The Master Plan is over 8 years old which could not and did
not anticipate existing community or its social economic values.
In fact the map dated December 1974 reflects lower densities than
proposed in 1969 which.we feel the residents want. We also feel
• the homeowners in Woodside Village should be able to._provide
input into the planning of a revised Master Plan.
2: We, homeowners, do not believe an apartment complex fits with
surrounding community homes selling at $509000 and above.
3: While the Planning Commission appears to protect the developers
investment we, homeowners, feel that the City Council has an
obligation to protect the investment of residents.living. in the
Influential Homes and residents who will be living --,in Hearthstone.
According to -an -attorney, Joe McCarthy-, whom we consulted, an
attorney knowledgeable in this area, studies have shown that home-
owners who live near apartments do not. benefit from the 10 to 15%
increase in property values that other homeowners benefit from.
4: We believe the City should conduct a cost benefit analysis to
reflect the impact of the loss of revenues from having an area
zoned high density and the increase in expenditures for the
necessary increase in police and fire protection necessary for
apartments.
5: We believe that the City should determine its budget con-
straints as it relates to provide for additional police and fire
support. We, homeowners, want to know if additional expenditures
must be made for additional police and fire support for an apart-
ment complex. Does it come from our pockets in increased property
• taxes? We, homeowners, hope you give due consideration to the
concerns brought forth tonight. Thank you.
I would like to know what I can do
with this petition?
Mayor Browne: You may,pass it on to our City
Attorney here. I will speak to the
Council at this time - we have 15
minutes before our public hearings start at 8 o'clock. I want to
speed this up so that the people down here do not have to sit
and wait for hours until we come to the public hearing process.
Perhaps we can come to some determination here in answer to your
questions to us. First I would like to ask the City Attorney,
you spoke to the invalidity of the EIR. I might note that this
was updated in 1974 based upon a different outlook that the
developers had up there. The original population, as I recall
when the PCD was first instituted in 1970, the population was
projected at 17,500 people. We had density factors of multiple
family which related to 25 units per acre and due to the fact
that most of the existing apartments in the first increment of
development finished in around 17.5 DU's per acre,the present
one before us is in a MF-25 allowable zone that is going in at
17.5 as I understand. Due to the fact there was a gross reduction
in the proposed population in the area based upon that the 1974
EIR was certified by the City Council. And apparently the Federal
• Housing Administration is completing an EIR for the entire Wood-
side Village development which includes West Covina and Walnut.
The report tends t.o substantiate the conclusions of our 1.974
EIR and of course, they are relating much to the housing elements
that are.required in cities with lower cost housing and we have a
CITY COUNCIL 12/13/76
WRITTEN COMMUNICATIONS: Re TT #33076 .(Page 4)
compatible mix of housing:,in our community and this is all taken
into consideration when FHA are making loans in the City of West
Covina.
Can everybody hear me? Is the
system turned up high enough so that you can hear?, (Audience
• answered: No) Can you hear now? (Audience answered: Yes)
Getting back to the question asked of our City Attorney about
the validity of the EIR - Mr. Wakefield?
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Mr. Wakefield: Mr. Mayor and members of Council,
I assume the EIR Mrs. Hall referred to
is the 1974 report which was prepared
in connection with the proposed revisions in the planned residen-
tial development unit that was then under consideration. The EIR
obviously can only deal with conditions which exist at the.time.
plus whatever predictions wtih respect to the future is possible to
make. The report was approved at that time, was certified, it
covered the development now in question and the fact is that the
time has long since passed when that report may be challenged.
There may be things about it that individuals may not agree with
at the present time, but that doesn't mean the EIR was invalid at
the time it was prepared.
In my opinion the report as prepared
and as certified was legally sufficient, did meet the requirements
of the California Environmental Quality Act at the time and is not
now subject to attack, and the developer is entitled to proceed upon
the basis of that EIR.
Mayor Browne: Thank you, Mr. Wakefield. Mayor Pro
tem Shearer - do you have anything
you would like to add to the comments?
Councilman Shearer: Yes, Mr. Mayor. I guess that goes
along with the job and on a night
like this perhaps you wish maybe you
weren't here,.or could go to sleep and Wake up a week or two later
and it will probably be gone, but that is not being realistic.
And one thing if anything else that I try to bind myself with is
that of being honest.
I think I would be less than honest
if I gave my encouragement to what is being attempted here this
evening. I will tell you why. Obviously you are not going to
agree, that is pretty much of a foregone conclusion, but I think
I owe it to you to tell you why and it goes.to that basis that I
call honesty.
In 1970 one of the first votes I made
on this Council after I was elected was to approve the Woodside
Master Plan. In effect I said to the owner, whether it is an owner
of a multi -million dollar property or an owner of a single family
piece of property, I said to that individual you have my word that
this is the type ofdevelopment that I will allow as long as I am on
this Council.. Umark from then on began to develop, based on.the
trust and confidence at that time given. They put in their
streets, they put in their sewers, the water system. Many millions
of dollars went in and they in turn began to sell the property off.
Without question in my mind I am sure they sold the property based
on that commitment. The price and the price they sold to Butler,
Influential Homes was. different than that sold to this developer
but would be.much different because of that commitment this Council
CSITY COUNCIL 12/13/76
WRITTEN COMMUNICATIONS: Re TT #33076 (Page 5)
made for him to use his property --------- For me to come back
after the deal has been made, after the money has.beeri spent and
say to him now I am going to not let you build in conformance with
our prior agreement, I think would be.just as unfair to that man
as it would be to you.or your husband,.to say you cannot use your
. property that you bought in good faith as a single family resident.
Now you may disagree with that
analogy but I ask you to give it some thought. If -.this were a
request for a zone change, a deviation from the plan, then my
comments would be completely invalid and we would have a new
situation.
To talk about the invalidity of the
EIR, as the City Attorney has indicated is, I guess in the ultimate,
for the courts to decide if that is in the wind. I am not that
familiar with the rules of law, I am not an attorney and I would
not attempt to try and practice law here this evening. But
obviously conditions are different today than they were in 1970.
In 1970 there was nothing and the conditions today are a reflection
of what we said six years ago would come about. To stop half -way
through the development and say conditions are different therefore ...
and draw some sort of a conclusion from that would not be fair to
the individuals because the Master Plan as adopted said - yes
conditions are going to change, they are going to change such and
such. The designation for MF-25 DU's.per acre has-been on that
property since 1970. I recognize theremay'not.have.been full
knowledge of that on the part of homeowners but at this point in
time I don't feel I can penalize the present owners, the seller
of the property who operated in good faith because of the.lack of
information and knowledge on the part of the people, quite frankly,
• who bought it.
I am aware of the thrill of buying a
new home and I found myself in exactly the same situation on both
of the homes that I own. I can sympathize with you but the
answer is the information was available, nothing has changed since
I bought my property, therefore to do other than to allow the
developme.nt.to take place, I think would not be honest.
Now that is a long way around saying
that Idisagree with you, but I sympathize with you, but sympathy
doesn't do much in a case like this.
Councilman Chappell: I was sitting on the Council at the
time this PCD was developed. The
Council at that time took a tremendous
amount of time to analyze and come up with what looked like a
desirable community that we could start with right from scratch.
We visited area after area in Southern California, visiting the
exact same situation that is developing down there - apartment -
single family dwellings --dwellings of multi units - four plexes,
things of that nature. This was laid out, staff studied it, City
Council studied, the Planning Commission studied, it looked like
something that was really going to be an area.that West Covina
could point to with pride.
• Al-w-ays. you will find some objections
to these things like this because a single family person naturally
wants the whole city to be single family residents but this had
been taken care of and this plan has been available and publicized
time and time again - what we were doing down there. It was written
CITY COUNCIL 12/13/76
WRITTEN COMMUNICATIONS: Re TT #33076 (Page Six)
up in a number of publications as a fine piece of work by this
Council, by our Planning Commission and by -our staff. To come
up with an area that we started with bare land and come,up with a
mix of types of residences and a place for citizens to live.
We are in the process of not completely completing it but it
looks like it is well over half completed now. And it is working.
• People are living there next to apartments now, four—plexes,
single family residences, and I don't think that their homes are
being too badly damaged. I looked at a home Sunday that was put,
up for sale there and I know what they paid for it when they
bought it and what they are asking for it now — there is no
similarity — so the values have not been hurt because of apartments
being near that home. In fact that home is two doors from the
apartment project on Temple Avenue.
So I would say.that the homes are
less valuable really is not correct under our conditions today.
I happen to live in an apartment house. I don't really have any
quarrel with it other than sometimes they play a little louder
music, but that also happens in single family residences.
I would like to emphasize to -those
that are here this was a study and we went through this study
time and time again trying to get the proper mix. We have as a
Council since that time reduced the amount of units that can be
placed on an acre. We had 35 units to the acre, we no longer
have that in our City. 25 units is the maximum. This was zoned
for 25 and is coming in at 17.5. I think this Council has
demonstrated the fact that they are.concerned with the single
family residential owner and I think we have no control tonight
other than what we are voting on, that all of the conditions
• are mete i:n the plan that is being presented -to us. It is not a
zone change, the zoning is there. It is a reduced zoning by
several units per acre. I think it is something we can live with
and we will be working with the developer to encourage him to
make sure that what he puts there will not detract from the homes
in that vicinity and will not take away the value:of those homes.
I think when the project is over with, if we pass on it tonight,
and I will_ask our City Attorney if we can stop it when the
hearings come about — he will give us some answers then.
But when it is over with I don't think you will be as displeased
as you are at the moment. Our hands are somewhat tied because
this decision was made a number of years ago. I myself was on
the Council at the time and I spent a tremendous amount of time
visiting other communities in Southern Califor-nia to make sure
we had the proper mix, that the people were protected, and when
it was all over with I was satisfied that this was taking place
so I cast a vote in favor of the PCD for Woodside Village.
Mr. Mayor, that is all I have to say at this time and will
probably have more remarks to make when we get into the public
hearing portion of our meeting.
Mayor Browne: Mrs. Hall, we are going to have to
get into the public hearing portion
of our meeting now, so if you will
remain we will probably get into -some further discussion later.
• Joanne Beaver May I ask a question? I live in the
New American Homes. I was in
Ed Sloman's.office in.August and
there was a map in his office hanging up, very large, and I had
a problem with something in my yard and I went to th-e planning
CITY COUNCIL
WRITTEN COMMUNICATIONS: Re TT 133076
12/13/76
(Page 7)
office and at that time he started telling me about this new
concept for Woodside Village and was telling me about the
• different homes that were going up at that time and it was just
this August that he told me the land in question right now was
going to be a school site and small little green parks for our
community. Now all of a sudden we hear it is going to be an
apartment house going in and you say this was planned several
years ago yet in August of this year he told me it was going
to be a school site and a little community park....
Mayor Browne: I can see we are going to get
into a lot of pros and cons of what
you were told and he.said... ....
Joanne Beaver: Well why did he say......
Mayor Browne: Will you please wait a minute? We
are not going to tie up an argument
here at City Council when we have a
public hearing meeting and have people waiting for that. When we
get into the hearing we will call this up for a hearing on a
precise plan and once we get into it and give you the: -.facts and
detail of how this Council and the Planning Commission has instruct—
ed developers in our thinking on informing residents — but I don't
Want to go into that detail now because we are holding up .....
Joanne Beaver:
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years before it could be
out if that school site
August that I talked to
Mayor Browne:
Councilman Shearer:
Right, but the question I want
answered is that he said.that land
was supposed to be held for five
developed in any manner in order to find
was needed. Now this has just been since
him.
I think you are confused on the loca—
tion because there is a site up there
to be held for a school site.
.Mr. Mayor, could I interject? I
hope that when we get to this issue
that we have a map here this evening
that shows the area. This was absent at the Planning Commission
and there was an awful lot of confusion as to where a piece of land
was, so I would suggest if a large map of the PCD is not present
that staff take steps right now to get the map and then we can talk
from the map and not memory.
Mayor Browne: Madam, I will ask you to take a seat
until we can get into this subject
again — thank you.
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CITY COUNCIL
PLANNING COMMISSION AGENDA
TENTATIVE TRACT NO. 33076
(PCD-1, DP.#14) NEW VISTA
DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION.
Mayor Browne:
12/13/76
(Page 8 )
Location: West side of Nogales Street,
north of.Amar Road.
Request: Approval of a Tentative Tract
Map for 285 multiple family units on a
17.5+ acre parcel of land located in
Woodside Village. Recommended by
Planning Commission Resolution No. 2701.
May we have any comments by Council
in relation to the Staff Report and
action by Planning Commission.
Councilman Miller: Yes, Mr. Mayor. Earlier some comments
were made by other Councilmen, I would
like to make comments at this particu-
lar point. Given the fact that the Planned Community Development
Environmental Impact Report was updated in 1974, the thing you have
to keep in mind is that the EIR was done on the whole Woodside
Village Master Plan not on just one particular phase of it, so that
gave the developer sort of the goal as to which direction to go.
The statement has been made that the EIR is out of date. I guess
we could get into technicalities but I would disagree. I would
have said if the EIR addressed itself to just a selective portion
of Woodside Village then I could see possibly where it would-be out
of date but given the fact the EIR was in total of the whole Master
Plan with the Master Plan it will go together and coincide together.
From there the developer makes his development accordingly.
One interesting note is when we looked
at the EIR two years ago the density was What I would call would be
• reasonable for that development in that area. Since then much of
the density has been lowered in most of our developments and parti-
cularly in this development. So that even substantiates my position,
as far as I am concerned, that much more, the fact that we have seen
even a trend in that area from mutiple dwellings to single family
dwellings.
My position is that I am satisfied
with the Woodside Village Master Plan and as far as I am concerned
it is uptodate and it meets the standards and th-e developer has
met the standards and has complied with the law and as was mention-
ed by one of our Councilmen earlier, there is definitely a moral
obligation on the part of the Council to when,they'say we approve
something we stand by it, at no point do we deviate from that given
circumstances that would allow us that opportunity - - fine, but
that is not the issue tonight. Tonight the issue is to consider
the Tentative Tract Map. You have to consider what we are consider-
ing. So with that, Mr. Mayor, I also will be approving this.
Mayor Browne: I believe we are at the point for a
motion and a second.
Councilman Tice: Mr. Mayor, a comment. I have to go
on with my colleagues with this. The
plan was reviewed in 1974, even before
I was on the Council, but I happen to be somewhat familiar with it.
. I have empathy for the people living in the area having had a
similar situation myself during the mid-50's on a zoning matter.
In fact that is what got me interested in local government. I think
we ar'e committed, we don't have too much of a choice at this point
to make any changes. The Master Plan has been approved. The indi-
viduals purchased the land in good faith, apartments are planned
there and as such I have to uphold the Planning Commission.
CITY COUNCIL
PLANNING COMMISSION AGENDA: TT #33076 12/13/76
(Page 9)
I do have one question.for Mr. Miller.
Exactly where in the Bowl Area are the apartm'ent's located?
(Mr. Miller explained with the use of a displayed map — west of
Amar, the first phase is at Amar.)
• Councilman Tice: I will say one thing in favor of the
developer his density plan -,.of 16 units
per acre, according to the report I
have, is quite a bit less than what we have for a maximum for the
City. We just reduced the maximum -for apartments to 20 units per
acre .and he is under the maximum. So he has met those r-equirem,e,nts
and I can see no alternative but to permit the development to go on.
Councilman Shearer: Mr. Mayor, I wish Mr. Miller would go
back to the board and point out the
school site. When was that established
as a school site.
Mr. Miller That was established about a year ago.
Basically it was •a school/park site.
It was to be 8 acres of school site
and 5 acres of park on the 1970 Master Plan and as a result of our
becoming aware and more cognizant of the school situation in Rowland
Unified School District and in an effort to stimulate the develop—
ment of an elementary school, particularly after the unilateral
action on the part of the Rowland Unified School District regarding
Gingrich School site, the developer or land owner — Umark — the
City and the school district met in about May or June of 1975 and
put together an agreement that the City give up their right to have
a 5 acre parksite, instead the developer had a 10 acre configuration
for a school site. We would still have joint recreational use there
as we do in most schools but in order to allow the developer
economically to justify the donation of' -a- school site which is far
above what is required by State law we gave up our parksite and the
developer stated and gave a letter which has been accepted by
Rowland School District, that this parcel of land is free and.clear
and to be given to the Rowland Unified School District in fee title
at no charge. Rowland as part of the agreement agreed to begin
planning for an elementary school at such time as the enrollment
K through 6th grade in the attendance areas for Woodside Village
reached 500 with th.e potential of 600. The further agreement on the
part of Rowland was. -that it was subject to financing.
Basically there is a school site that
can be utilized now subject to..the Rowland Unified School District.
Councilman Shearer: Do-e-s t-h-e property that is shown in
brown— as far as any official adopted
plan — was that ever indicated to be a
school site?
Mr. Miller: No sir.
Councilman Shearer: Was it ever'indicated to.be anything
other than 25 dwelling units per acre?
• Mr. Miller: No s.ir, it has been that since 170.
Councilman Shearer: Will you point out the Influent.ia.l
Home Tract on th,e map?
(Mr. Miller did so.)
CITY COUNCIL
PLANNING COMMISSION AGENDA:.
TT k33076
l l3y76
(oog'a lD)
Councilman Shearer: .
Will you also
point out
the tract we
approved this
evening?
(.Mr. Miller did so)
�
'
Councilman Shearer:
Explain for orign'tation
purposes.
(Mr. Millar explained this
would be to the
south and
east of the
apartment development)
`
Councilman Chappell: Mr. Mayor» I dothlnk one thing
should be pointed out. I think that
school site never uould,havle been
acquired by th\a District because of the coat of it" It was through
negotiations with the Council, the'
developer and the School District
that that site is now free and oloor° That was one of the biggest
problems in this area — was the School District -was not willing to
buy the land. The land was set aside in several locations for a
school site throughout Woodside Village but because of lack of funds
they were not willing topurchase,so thi��-oito has become available
at no cost to the taxpayers other than the coot /f building the
buildings themselves, which will in my mind and the Counoilvo
mind, expedite that school site many, many years sooner. than it
would have bgoq built, if over» by, the' Olatrlot itself., and I
believe -they will stand up with that statement too. So we have a
good project here and we have a paid up school
site which perhaps
would have never been built there but somewhere alaa if at all and
we have the zoning and that is not what
we are talking about
tonight at all. We are just approving o plan of doxelopmant°I
would like to ask the City Attorney — could we not approve this
site?
-� Mr. Wakefield: Mr. Mayor and members of Council',
what is before the City Council this
evening is simply the approval of a
Tentative Tract Map. The Tentative Tract Map is a two Parcel
division of land'. What it does is divide the land area, which is
the commercial area from the brown area, so that is all that in
before the Council tonight the approval of the Tentative Tract Map.
The question of zoning, the change of
the PCD Master Plan* matters of that sort are not before the
City Council thi` evgning~ There is a PCD plan which has been
` approved by the Planning Commission which covers the brown area and
that plan was approved by the Planning Commission on the ls± of
December, but that item is not before the City Council this evening
and would not be unless it were called up by the City Council.
3o the only matter which the Council is donoidering this evening
' is simply thetwo parcel subdivision, the brown area into the
commercial area to the north and the remainder of the area which
is port of the PCQ"
Mayor Browne:
in relation to
factor involved
please explain
perk site.
Mr. Miller:
`
Mr. Miller, I think tbere ^a a lady
here tonight who alluded to the fact
that there is some misunderstanding
the schooleite and that there was a reversionary
if the school did not built its site. Would you
how that site would revert bank to the City for a
incentive and to provide what
Yoe# as part of the agreement
negotiated between the City, The
School District and Umarkq ao.,an
you might c-all an It end point" at
. 0
CITY COUNCIL ' (Page ll)
P� ��
l�/l./76
at sometime for the offer from Umarh of the site and to stimulate
Rowland Unified School District to proceed to construct the
school as rapidly as possible, Umark did hav .o placed in the agree—
ment which has baonexeogted^ that the property would revert back
to the developer at the expiration of lO years unless modified by
the parties of the agreement and in that oaeo it would be reverted
by 8 acres of the lO would revert to the City -for park purposes
and only 2 acres -would revert back to Umark for actual development
of single family homes. Given the current,construction activity
(mentioned names of various tracts going into the area at this
time) it is expected and in my mind I think we ooP'antinipato the
projected 500 population of N through 6th-pupils is or willbe
met within the next 6 months or within the next.year and it would
be o matter of financing by Rowland Unified School District as to
when they construct the facility. '
Mayor Browne:
Thank you. Dithat answer your
question that you were alluding to
earlier? `
(Woman that answered did not state name.nor I her reply dis—
tinguishable on the tape) '
Mr. Miller-, In 1970 there uas'a park shown.north
of Amar and a park shown in this
vicinity.
103b87mne Beaver I am speakingof August. I was in
his office in August and he showed
me the yellow spot where the school
site is and the brown spot — the odd shaped one — was supposed
to be the school site,
Mr. Miller: ` This is the a'rooed Master Plan
approved in the lattar art' f` l9,74°
Thie — — flat20 ao�-e-si]ze'. -i.s't h-e-
only 20 acre site that was ever considered for the Woodside
Village area and was shown in this vicinity on the previous plan
but this is the plan that has been on the drawing board -since 1974
and is the goldelino used by all members of`the�pIanning staff and
the developers.
������ne Beaver The otherplaces said �|u` c o n� ea — one
_ where the single apartment -place iav
that m�ssupposed to be the small
community park area. Nobody ever ma'ntlonad to us before we even
bought our house and we questioned eeograI pep le':and they said that
was all to be park area and — — — — _ — was tobe single family
homes.
� .
�
Mayor Browne: Lot me say 'this'., We can sit here all
night and say he said this and I said
that and somebody said something else
but do we have a total plan of the PCD, Mr. Miller, where it was
originally laid out in I970 and revised in IB74? And while he is
putting that map up I might relate some of the p-ast experiences we
have had with developers in the area wherein we have had this same
type of input evorytime o development goes in, that they ueren't
ouppliod with specific types -of lnformation» relating to schools,
services, parks, londooaping* and so on down the line.
EVerytime a developer comes in and
goes through out Planning Commission and the City Council hearings,
•
i
CITY COUNCIL Page 12
PLANNING COMMISSION AGENDA: TT ¢#33076 12/13/76
all of these complaints are made...b_y .r_es.i.dent,s in the community
and we have made demands upon the developers to place in all of
their tract offices and wherever they give out information on
selling the houses or facilities from, we require them to display
a map with all the pertinent information'of the locale adjacent
• to the given subdivision.they are working out of. I have gone
down there myself and verified it. Row if peo-p-le.do not take the.
pains when they go into a tract office, and,as.Maypr Pro-tem
said tonight, we are all glorified with buying a new home and I
have gone through it also, all you see is that homesite there and
then all of a sudden you realize there is other than single family
development going on. This is all pertinent because it dates
back to 1970 and has been public information posted in City Hall,
posted in every tract office that has ever come in in Woodside
Village since the first one and if the people that go in there can
not read these things and see them. This Council has been
morally committed down the line to this community development.
The total area, the value of the property which you are buying is
related in fact to the amount of land that goes into multiple
family, how much money they derive out of that. The sewer lines,
the water system, the electrical systems, the streets, etc., that
is all a gross figure in the development that is related back to
the costs of the total area. The property owner, Umark, had to go
in and make this investment to assure you people that you can go
in and buy a house at a specific price.
This is all inter —related in the
development plans and this was conceived way back and amended in
1974. The plan that Mr. Miller had before was the one that should
have been posted in every tract office and I have personally seen
• it there. Now we relate back to the Woodside Village Master Plan —
Mr. Miller will you briefly touch on that?
Mr. Miller: Basically the map I have right here is
the map that is used in our planning
office and used by the developer and
is the latest edition dated December 1974. The only variation or
deviation in relation to the previous map is that we have with—
drawn our park requirement of 5 acres and increased the school to
10 acres. The subject area of the tract map is located in an area
shown as 25 dwelling units to the acre, 17.5 acres. There is no
change from that plot plan adopted in 1970. The only variation is
the parksite and school site. That was the only major deviation. -
That is the plan we used. The 1974 EIR was produced through the
process of prior channels of public hearings.
Councilman Shearer: Mr. Mayor, I would like to address
what I sense as an underlining tone
that the City had something to gain by
giving out false information. I think if we examine that for a
moment and if anyone is here with that impression that Mr. Diaz or
any of his staff, the Planning Commission or any member of the City
Council, or anyone connected with the City, that it would be of any
advantage to us to give out wrong information. Obviously I wasn't
present when the conversation between the young lady and Mr. Diaz
took place so I can't say this is what exactly took place but.I do
• know that in communications many times things can be misunderstood.
But let's put that aside and examine whether or not there is any
reason for the City to give out false information. Now it might be
an advantage to a salesman to make a sale. I am sure that there might
have been a salesman in order to make a sale that did not give out all
of the information, but for Mr. Diaz or anyone else to intentionally
give out the wrong information —.really it is just the opposite
0
0
CITY COUNCIL Page 13
PLANNING COMMISSION AGENDA: TT #33076 12/13/76
because of what comes up are situations like this.
'
Idonv t think any city staff member
or anymember of the City Council desires to -have disputes on.
things of this nature. So quit-e frankly it is in our' --best
.interests that everybody knows and that is over the years What we
have tried to do rather than standing over everyone's shoulder
saying — make sure you tell everyone thisand that. We want you
to know when you move in what is planned down the street, across
the say, or along the back fence or uhatawer» so you can than
make your decision whether or not to purchase. So if there is
anyone that feels that the City had anything to' gain by falsifying
or misleading — well it is beyond mg to rationally come up and say
nyeo, it is in ourbest interests" because if this.situation
hadn't come up we would probably all be home by now and I am sure
this Council.and no one else enjoys disputes of this type.
Motion by Shearer to approve Tentative
Tract Map No. 33076: seconded by Miller.
`
�
ithey ^ '
(.Audience n o eoo �o th ey a torted o leave the Chamber; furthor�'uordo
undiotingoioheblo on tape)
t'
`
Councilman Miller: Mr"-Mayo� a clarification. ^ Did we
just take a voteto approve it? We
have gone ±hrough.tho motion and
approved this?' '
Mayor Browne: we are just u mlding the Planning,
' Commission decision. Wg'hove had a
motion and a oecond on -it, we have not
taken o vote on it.
I would like to clarify, -that the effort
'
ofthe Council tonight was to explain o the people that we are
morally bound, if not legally bound» to.carry through with this pro—
j
ect too�bht. Now if we want to get intoOral Communications and a
request by the people to possibly review, if legally possible, the
PCO that is another ballgame°But we are not looking at any changes
in zoning or precise'changes into that development plan that is
already preconceived. So our action here tonight is merely uphold—
ing the Planning Commission actions and we are legally and morally
bound to it as indicated by all Counoilmon ' 90 we have a motion
and a second ~ all in favor?
carried. �
All CounciImahvoted nayon° Motion
ORAL COMMUNICATIONS
Mayor -Browne: Now we have an opportunity here under
Oral Communications and I will invite
individuals to come up and speak but I
would ask that we not have tpipetitive typo of doaeertation going on
herg°
��� Mr. Griffis I live in the great City of Uoot Covina"
��� 2655 EVangling I am a registered voter and an American
West Coyina of this community. Gontlemo'» I am
sorry that you have to fulfill your
moral obligation without at least listeningto l that
some people o
came here and saying — gentlemen, we think maybe there is a
Possibility. ypu learned gentlemen 10 years ego uhgh you made a
CITY COUNCIL Page 14
ORAL COMMUNICATIONS (Re TT #33076) 12/13/76
decision for us and the community which could have been a good
decision — it could have been a right decision but there is a
possibility that today that decision may not be as.learned and as
wise as you think it was ten years ago. I stand on the principle
that I have the right to come here and say — gentlemen, listen to
• me. But you didn't listen to me. You have a moral obligation to
listen to me and I have a moral obligation to give you my answer
in my little ballot. Thank you, gentlemen.
Guilleiono Rios I would like to say that I came
2141 Evangline tonight with the rest of this group
West Covina hoping that you would listen to us,
to what we had to say, at least here
us out. I am a new member of this community. I -have been very
active in the other community that I just left. I am going to say
this. I will not -be inactive in this community. I will do all that
is in my power with these people to see that you people do what is
proper for the community, at least listen to us. Nothing else,
please. This is a democratic area — please listen to whatwe have
to say. You are being a dictator. I am sorry to use that word but
that is exactly what you are doing. You did not listen to us. You
just listened to yourselves. We wanted a hearing, all of us, to say
something. All of us.spent all this time since 7:30 P.M. until now
and it is 10:30 — we did not come out here to hear you say this is
the end of it, this is how we are going to vote without hearing you
out.
I would appreciate it if in the future
any other problems that you heve like this whether one person is
present or two hundred that you would at least hear that person or
• group out. So we may do what is proper for the community, you
with us, working together.
Mayor Browne: May I answer you? If we were going
through a public -hearing process you
would have been afforded the
opportunity to testify. This was not a public hearing. This was
just an approval of the action taken by the Planning Commission.
Now you have the opportunity right now in Oral Communications to
address us on anything you want to in relation to the area in which
you live.
Councilman Shearer: Mr. mayor, a comment. I don't
believe you were here, I don't recall
you specifically at the Planning
Commission hearing. (Mr. Rios answered he was not.) At that time
there was considerable talk and the people who were there and who
just got up and left, were advised by me in response to a question
as to how can we proceed, we don't like the Master Plan, we want to
see it changed. My advice to them Was that they 'get together,
unify, make their position known to the City Council during Oral
Communications on the night of December 13. Oral Communications
came up this evening and the whole group got up and walked out with
the exception of a few. Now that was given as honest advice to the
people who were here. They did not choose, at least some of them,
to avail themselves of that opportunity. -I am very sorry for that.
• The suggestion was given with all good intentions. Oral Communica—
tions are open but most of the people left in disgust.
Mr. Rios: When.you approve first and then open
to communications, that is not what
we were here for. We were here to
have ourselves heard. You choose to approve first and -then have
open communication. This is a closed communication on your part.
0 i
CITY COUNCIL Page 15
ORAL COMMUNICATIONS: (Re TT #33076) 12/13/76
You closed the door before we had the opportunity to come up here and
discuss this problem and see if there wa-s something we could work out.
Councilman Shearer: Obviously there is a misunderstanding.
I will try to make it clear one more
• time. The issue you are addressing
yourself to is requesting that this Council revise the PCD plan
for Woodside Uillage,..not the approval or disapproval of the
Tentative Tract Map and precise plan. They are unrelated. If
Council decides at this time if the request were made and the
Council decides to consider to revise the Master Plan that
possibly would have been done. Th6t request was not made. The
advice was oot followed. I.am sorry for that fact but your spokesmen,
two of the people that left this evening, did not avail themselves of
that advice, they apparently did not feel it was good advice, they
got up and walked out.
•
Mr. Rios: Mr. Shearer, I am sorry for all of
this, for our waste of time in this
chamber as far as this particular issue
is concerned, but I am sure there will be other opportunities not
only on this issue but other issues to correct those kind of pro—
blems and th.ose lack of communications. I hope we will not have any
more lack of communication either from us to you or you to us either
as groups or individuals. I am sorry again that that happened, but
I am sure you will think on it.
Councilman Tice: Mr. mayor, may I say that I think
Mrs. Hall did an excellent job repre—
sening the group.as the spokesman. I
think she made all the points that anyone else would have made
tonight and I think we get the tone of the crowd here.
Mr. Rios:
does not tell
not listening.
your ears and
community.
Mayor Browne:
One point I would like to bring up is
that I believe we had 80 to 90% of that
group in that area here and if this
you something then let me tell you gentlemen you are
You have your ears and doors closed. Please open
doors not only to us but to all the members of the
issue just put aside now.
cerns.
What we are asking you to do is make
your requests relative to what your
concerns are over and beyond the
What is your express desires, your con —
Mr. Rios: My concern is that you did not allow
this group to speak out, what they came
up here to speak out before you voted
on your particular issue. That is my concern at this moment.
Everything else is irrelevant at this point because of the fact
you have voted on this same article that we did not want you to vote
on until we had our voice. We did not have our voice I am sorry to
say. Thank you.
• Mayor Browne:
first row and be seated 'down
Is there anybody else in the audience
that would -like to speak? Those
wishing to speak just move down to the
here.
.
'
����
°��
`
`
CITY
COUNCIL
Page 16
ORAL
COMMUNICATIONS (Re
TT #33076)
l7y13/76
Ken Haehi
Mr. Mayor,
members of
Council, I have
2129
[vanglino
a couple of
questions.,
The City
West
Covina
Attorney indicated
all
you were voting
on tonight
was the splitting
up of the
commercial
area and °.°.
Mayor
Browne:
A Tentative
Tract Map
for a portion of
the area.
'
Mr. Haehi: A portion of the area. That area had
already been zonod for multi —family
ando small`oommeroial area?
'
Mayor Browne: That is rlght° `
`
Mr. Haahi: you indicated b'fore that in the
initial plan it uao`zoned'fbr 25 units
per acre?
Mayor Browne: That is correct.
Mr. Hashi: And sometime
' past thatyou did zone
for 20 units per acre?
Mayor Browne: No. What I was speaking too was the
daVeIop'mont factors. In other words
you have a 25 dwelling unit per acre
zoning on the proparty. The permitted use gross would be 438
on a 25 dwelling area per eorO,. In that area the proposed units
and permitted units oet''uould be 375° -In this instance they are
proposing to develop 285 which is about 98 units below the net
allowable ooeo on the area* because you have to take the open space
factors into consideration. '
Mr. 8oahi: And you have allowed a dgveloperx�
to come in and put 25 units per acre
on that?'
Mayor Browne: No. They couldn't feasibly put 25 per
acre inthere" That is just a
terminology on development, we have
certain restrictions on space, eto°* that would override that
factor. Your net factor gets down to about 285 to meet the re—
quirements.
Mr. Haabi: And that would be the maximum allow—
able unite?
Mayor Browne: That is what they are proposing — 285.
They could putin 375 but to get the
proper allowable floor epaoa» etc.,,
they could not possibly get thatmany apartments in there.
Mr. Haohi: You have taken o vote and approved
it. I can understand your moral
position. I wasn't hero ton years
ago so I don't know what happened then. Is there any position that
`�- we as homeowners in that area can do now to prevent that particular
project or to rezone the area?
Mayor Browne: I mouldudofer to the City At-torney on
that» but I might call your attention
that this particular area the final
study on it was in 1974^ The EIR was revised just two years ago°
•
•
0
CITY COUNCIL Page 17
ORAL COMMUNICATIONS (Re TT #33076) 12/13/76
In fact that is when the plans started coming in for the develop—
ment of that whole Bowl Area. That is why I said all the money
had gone into the development area and services accounted for and
the money spent to put them in. Now I will let the City Attorney
respond to your question.
Mr. Wakefield: Mr. Mayor and members of Council, as
I see the matter the rights of the
developer invested based upon the
prior approval.of the PCD Master Plan and at this point in time
I am afraid there is no alternative but to permit the development
to proceed in accordance with the approved plan.
Mayor Browne:
Mr. City
should we
arbitrary
mainly the taxpayers and homeowners in
'to:in the way of lawsuits.
Attorney, you might explain
take a unilateral or
action on our part what
that area would be subject
Mr. Wakefield: Mr. Mayor, I think two things are
possible from the standpoint of the
developer and owner of the property.
If he is interested in proceeding with the development then I think
a court might very well permit him to proceed. If he is not
interested in proceeding with the development and is simply seeking
damages for the delay, the expense, the inconvenience that has been
caused by the prior approval of the development plan and the City'w
now refusing to permit him to proceed in accordance with that plan,
I frankly don't have any estimate as to what the amount of damages
might be. Obviously,'based on the improvements constructed to date
they would be substantial. If a judgment mere made against the City
the judgment would have to be paid from any funds available to the
City and if money was not available within the year the judgment'
was entered then the City Council would be obligated to'increase
the taxes on the properties within the.City in an amount sufficient
to discharge the judgment over a period of five years.
Mr. Hashi I understand what you are 'saying.
Was there anything we could have done
prior to the vate the°City Council
just made?
Mr. Wakefield: The fact`is there is nothing before
the City Council that .the City
Council could act upon tonight
except the approval or disapproval of the Tentative Tract. As
indicated before the Tentative Tract simply splits the 2 acre
commercial parcel from the remainder of the larger parcel. That
was the only issue before Council tonight. The issue isfnot
whether the zoning is appropriate. You have to remember the sub—
division map act controls the division of property, it doesn't
control land use.. It simply sets up the guidelines for the basis
on which the property owner may divide the property. Tonight we
are not concerned with zoning or land -.use but simply the right of
the property owner to divide his parcel into two segments to
accommodate the existing Master Plan and zoning on the property.
Mr. Hashi :,
that if the developer -came
on there, say 6 or 7 to the
approved? Or in fact have
property?
You ha-ve-approved•the use of this land
for the Tent•at-ive project of whatever
number of units --so it -is passible
back and said I want to put patio homes
acre instead of 17, that could be
you approved.that particular use of the
_
^
CITY COUNCIL Page 18
_ lr�l3�76
'.
Councilman iho-cer; Mr. Mayor. I think the question
and answer cooI.dobVlmuoly be oyaan°
� Ifthe/ owner of the property would.
change his mind for whatever reason aod- moulc] oame in- end' `oay now
instead of 18 units per acre or whatever it figures out, I want to
build 7 units to the aore» or 4 — — yes, we could a proog.that°
Isn't that oorrect* Mr. Wakefield? (Answered: Yao) The 25 units
per acre is the maximumw anythingIooa than that uould,be at the
option of the developers.
Mr. Hamhi: 5o we then still have o recourse if
we can somehow oonVlnoo this developer.
Councilman Tice: Talk to the New Vista Development
Corporation.. If he came in and wanted
to build.00gr the 25 unite he wouldn't
be allowed to du that.
Mr. Haahi: Reasonably wecouldn't ask the City
to do anything because of what the
City Attorney said. We mould be
placing the entire City and all the taxpayers.......
Councilman Tice: We would all be paying for it.
Mr. Hoahi: Our only course then would be to
build it.
-
Councilman Tice: That is one road.
Mayor Browne: I might add there have been many
instances in that area where the
developers have come in to change far
below what is allouedv_ such as pointed out tonight. There will be
90 looa units than they could possibly develop so theseere the
indicators. People become alarmed when they see 25 units per acre
but it really isn't feasible or 1 roctioal to develop to that
because of the other stringent requirements the City has with
rgge-d to floor space, open apaco» parking opacov landscaping',, etc.
So uhgn it,gets down to a net you are down to an allowable --gross
of 438 to a net of 375° And here the developer is only coming in
with 285° It is very alarming when you look at the high figure
which is finally reduced to ec net» and that has happened in every
area in Woodside Village. An I said before there was a proposed
estimated density in that total area of about 17»500 persons and
I would defer to Mr,. Miller» that it is probably down to 13*000 now.
Mr~ Miller: May be below that.
` Mayor Broune'l,.,' So you can aao the massive reduction
' in population that we had seen before
is not going to come into being.
Bill Naffzigor. A question. What I uould like to do is
2433 Brenda stop the project from taking place.
West Covina And the 'nly�m ' is changing the zoning?
Mayor Browne: That,ie tight,
Mr. Naffziger: In view.1of the fact tha school changed
thezoning to limit t'ho amount of parks
we had available
to ua_I would like to
make a recommendation that whatever was lost in the parka be sub—
0
E
CITY COUNCIL
ORAL COMMUNICATIONS (Re TT #33076)
12/13/76
Page 19
tracted from that portion of the land that uao alloted for this
multi project. I would like to reduce tha. numbar, of units avail-
able per ooro which would in the long run limit the builder to
building only residential homes and not apartments. Is there
anyway I can do that? '
Councilman Shearer: Mr" Mayor- The -other side of the coin
` on that- if.uo would operate on'ths
principle that okay we uer�--going to
make a oountar-balanoe, I am afraid that what we would have to do
is raise the density because the do zznt)ia Yamnini-tigt-ive`
through negotiation (as Councilman Ch `out) gave_ 1.0' -
acres of property to the school. -Tan,-ac-res that- originoIly'he`had
planned to sell to the school at X dollora per acre. There is -no: .�
requirement that the City can impose that requires onbool dedioation.
U i � dedication
e �an roqu require park but not school dedication. is that
Mr" Wakefield: That is correct.
Councilman Shearer: So if we were going to make someoonoidoratiom because of,the change in
the school concept I am afraid it would
have to go the other way, because the developer could make a case.
He could say - wait a minute, here is some lO acres that I had '
expected to make an income from and I have given it free of charge.
So I think that avenue of approach would be a little risky for us to
take.
Mr. Noffziger:
us, Can we do that?
Councilman Shearer:
Councilman Tice:
. '
Mr. Naffziqer:
Well,, if we went one step furthgr`and
said you gave us lO acres we will re-
imburse you for the IO acres you gave
If you can tell us whore to get some
money I think that would be a
possibility.
� But he didn't give the property to the
Cityv he gave it to the School District
and that is not the Cityj
But it seems that ia the only
and.I definitely` want to make
-
Right. I still would like to,make a
motion that the area be rezoned but I
don't know how you can go about it.
may we can stop this from happening
that motion. Can I do that?
Mayor -Browne:/ �` You can make the motion but the
, ^ ' roalistice of it when you get down to
the praotioolities.of it I question
that you 6ould ainoerely'uant to make that motion when you know all
of the ramifications and 'the problamo thatoan be encountered by
lawsuits and this can'bo pointed out Very vividly. Are we in a
position to buy that acreage at tbela,nd'-valua pla-oed- upon it by ths
developer? .That would be the -first approach. Do we want to buy
that propertyg do'we have enough monoy? And ifue down zoned that
and placed a single family zoning -on it I am sure he would sue over
the period of time he has had that property, paying taxes on it,
plus a deferential for the money he uould dorix/ on a multi -family
plus the commercial property uhioh'i-oa higher value ymt» and the
deferential would place a burden'on the taxpayers of who knows uhat»
as the City Attorney aayn" when you are dealing with a mass piece of
Pa�e 20
CITY COUNCIL l27l�/76
ORAL COMMUNICATIONS.- (Re TT \ ' '
/
property like that. This has happened in,other communities and I
would certainly hate to aao our taxpayers subject to something .
like that.. It would just tie op the whole thing in litigation for
years to oome^ Your whole service factor is based upon the pro-
perty being developed in the manner netforth°
Mr. Naffziger: I hate to s,ee it go*down the drain
especially with as much work as you
have.put into it. I am rather new
to California and -your ways are a little different than what I am
used to, but it seems if you have a plan in mind and you uant.to
shoot that as a model such as they did in Southern California and
Orange County» uhero I undezotandyou looked at before you made
this plan, the uniformity I think`ieimportant here and ifyou
break that continuity Ithink it will be disastrous,, I think it
will just be a nightmare. And the people that have taken pride
in their homenow are goingtoatart looking the other way and
say _ why should I put my money into it. I know that is a negative
way but that is an attitude I can agree with to a certain point and
quite frankly I just don't want to see it happen. If there is any
may from it being stopped from 000uring I am for'it even if it means
tying it up in litigation.
' Mayor Browne: Well if somebody has the time and effort
to.make a background study on it and
get some prior examples of how this has.
been acquired in the past I am alu willing tci listeo to some-
thing but I don't think they are going to come up with anything»
but maybe J em baing too negative on it. ' If we can be shown some
practical examples of where it isn't going to cost us down the road
or the taxpayers of this City an exorbitant amount of money in law-
suits and damages concurred through thi:saotion"
You have to consider that this is only
one portion of the City for which the whole City would have to share
the burden on. We are talking of a locale with maybe 3»000 people
and we have maybe 759000 people in the City and that whole impact
would hit every citizen in the City. So you have to consider that
alsq',
Mr. Naffzigor:
as a Master Plan and it is
is undertaken and it goes
to gain the respectof the
That is all _ I am looking
side as well as ours.
Mayor Browne:
throughout the whole City.
I appreciate ohat_yo.0 are saying and
it is well taken but getting back to
what I said if you are shooting this
a model for the City and development
down I just don't see where you are going
people to do anything like itagain°
at it from both sides of the ooin, your
I think you will find there are pros
and oons on apartments being adjacent
to single family - that exists
Mr. NaPfziger: I appreciate that. The general
opinion that I get from the oonoenauo
of most realtore is that every time
you pot up an apartment complex it will deteriorate from the normal
appraisal value of the single family houses in the area.
Mayor Browne-: This may have a temporary impact but I
don't think it is true because there are
areas in this City where there have been
CITY COUNCIL Page 21
ORAL COMMUNICATIONS (Re TT #33076) 12/13/76
apartments built and they had the same frees and they still had
their evaluation raised at the sametime everyone else in the
City was raised by the same percentage. It is a terrific impact
to face up to I agree with you — — hey I got apartments right
across the street from me, but when the.thing is already zoned
• and Master Planned in when an individual moves in. It is a
shock I agree with you because it is barren land and.then all of
a sudden you see apartments going up and you think the worst
things are going to happen and you hear some of the most compounded
concerns of people relative to apartments. I have been around here
a few years myself.prior to getting on the Council and I had some
of these concerns but after the thing happened it wasn't all as bad
as it was made out to be.
Councilman.Tice: Mr. Mayor. The first 10 years I
lived in the City I lived across from
a vacant orange grove and a developer
came in and tried to put a shopping center in there and I fought
that and they finally compromised and put high density apartments
in and that didn't change the value of my home at all. In fact I
got top dollar when I sold after 10 years so it'didn't affect
the property value at all and I would rather have apartments across
from my home than living across from a shopping center. This was.
back in the 501s..
Mr. Naffziger: I can see your point.
Mayor Browne: You made a motion which you are en—
titled to make. I think this
Council would be willing to accept a
• group of spokesmen from --your group, four or five people, come in
and sit with our planning staff in a gentlemanly type meeting and
go through all the things that have transpired through this PCD
plan right up to the present day and we have reams and reams of
paper to back up everything we are telling you tonight in the way
of individual reductions and densities, changes in the concept of
marketing, types of homes — condominiums versus apartments,
townhouses versus attached dwellings, right on down the line.
We get that treatment every time a developer comes in and we get
more concerned every time as to what we are going to end up with.
But all in all what I am looking at is probably what I had hoped
would come out originally because I was appalled at the 17,500
density factor and now it is down to.about 13,000 because of the
density factor change.
I will be willing to set up a meeting
where we have all of the resources available, we will have the
legalistics worked out, when you come up with the questions we
will have the legal answers for you.as far as we are concerned.
Will that settle in your minds that we are trying to work out the
practicalities of these things?
Mr. Naffziger: I think so. There is a lot of
confusion here. There are a few of
us that know what.the issue is but
there are a lot that have a misunderstanding and I think this
• will clear the air.
Mayor Browne: All right. If we can get an idea of
how many people would be willing to
attend this meeting we will arrange
it with Mr. Miller. Get a piece of paper out and let them put
down their names and addresses and the names of anyone else that
would like to attend such a meeting. If we get enough maybe we can
P
CITY COUNCIL
ORAL COMMUNICATIONS (Re TT k33076)
fill the Council chamber. We will make
orient your people, educate you the best
of what we are confronted with and it is
are willing to give it a good try, - we
Page 22
12/13/76
a sincere effort to
we can along the lines
a tWo-.way road. If you
area
(fir. Naffziger: Okay. Let me leave you with one
• last thought. After looking at this
information that you purpose and we
still decide we would like to do something can'we and how do we
go about it to make a recommendation for rezoning?
Mayor Browne:
Mr. City Attorney?
Mr. Wakefield: Mr. Mayor and members of Council, I
think at this point in time that .
nothing can be done. In other words
in some kinds of situations people of a community can initiate an
ordinance or a proposal but zoning as such is not subject to the
initiative procedure. So we get to the basic point. It seems to
me that even if the zoning were to be changed in this particular
case as it affects this particular tract that would not affect the
right of the developer to proceed,in accordance with the approved
Faster Plan for that particular area. We can talk about what we
would like to do but the fact is we are two years late. It is un-
fortunate perhaps but that is the situation as I see it.
Mr. Naffziger: One final question. What kind of
relief of action can we seek if the
ultimate doesn't happen. I give you
great credit for your planning and everything you put into this
project but if in the long run in the end we are the losers, which
• obviously we are, the only ones that will be if that is the case.
What is our recourse - where do we seek relief? Who do we go to?
Do we go to the builder of what happens? Or is it just something
we take?
Mayor Browne:
Mr. Wakefield?
Mr. Wakefield: If I knew the answer I would be glad
to take a crack at it. As already
indicated by Mr. Shearer, I suppose
if a developer comes in and is willing to propose some modification
in the development of his particular tract to reduce the density
that certainly could be approved. On the other hand as the matter
now stands he has the right to proceed and nothing that the City
Council can do at this point in time would be effective to defeat
that right except at the risk of substantial damages should litiga-
tion arise out of whatever action is contemplated. I think it
would be a mistake if the people here tonight go away with the
impression that there is something that could be done that wasn't
done, because frankly I don't think that is the fact.
Councilman Shearer: Mr. Wakefield, did:.our'-action tonight
to approve the Tentative Tract add
anything to that difficulty?
Mr. Wakefield: No sir. It didn't add a thing to the
• problem. The fact is as I have indi-
cated before the approval.of the TT
map simply permitted the separation of the 2 acre commercial pro-
perty from the rest of the parcel, so the two parcels then conform
to the existing Mas-ter Plan -for the property and to the proposed
development plan. Nothing was changed this evening with reference to
the zoning or land use that could be made of that property.
CITY COUNCIL 12/13/76
ORAL COMMUNICATIONS Re TT #33076)-
Councilman Tice: Mr. Mayor, I want to point out
something. We'have land throughout
this whole city zoned already for
multi—family/commercial and this type of thing and hasn't been
developed but if a developer comes in and makes a proposal within
• the criteria established for that land we have no alternative but to
approve it. We have that not only in Woodside but throughout the
rest of the City. We have had cases like that. We have had apart—
ments before the Council before that many of us have had questions
on but the criteria was established and there was nothing we could
do about it from a legal standpoint.
Mr. Naffziger: You raise an issue here. If they do not
meet your criteria if along -the way
somewhere down the line they fall down
can you then evict?
Councilman Tice: They go back to the drawing board.
If they don't meet the criteria
established by our Planning Department
then they have to go back.
Mr. Naffziger: Then you can evict them from the site?
Councilman Tice: We can't -evict them - no, but they have
to modify -it, they have to conform.
Mayor Browne: That happens to almost every develop-
.ment that comes into our Planning
Department. They come in with a proposal
that will not meet the criteria -maybe in one, two, three or five
• ways. They go back to the drawing board. They might come in three or
four times until that criteria can be recommended by the staff to the
Commission to buy. It is just not a one shot deal because every
developer comes in with — well I don't want to accuse them of
anything — but they try and get away with many things that we just
don't allow and it is up to our staff to comb that precise plan or
development plan when it comes in and throw out all the.items that
do not meet the criteria and then it is recommended to the Planning
Commission for either approval or disapproval. Maybe the developer
says I take my best shots but 99 times out of 100 the Planning
Commission will shoot them out the back door because they do not
meet the criteria as recommended by staff.
Mr. Naffziger: Will you bring all those articles
together — you will bring the ones
for the apartment complex — what is
required with you?
Mayor Browne`s Yes, we Will have all the resources
available from the PCD up to the
reversion that took place so you can
better understand the reversion as it now exists.
Mr. Naffziger: Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
(The Mayor asked Mr. Miller to get the names of those interested.)
•
Councilman Tice: Before we proceed I have a question,
of the gentleman that was just up here.
In your tract report that you received
what exactly ..-....a:pparently.there was a lot of misrepresentation
from what I hear tonight or there was misunderstanding or somebody
misunderstood what the plans were for this immediate area. Do you
have any of your tract reports?
Page 24
CITY COUNCIL 12/13/76
ORAL COMMUNICATIONS (Re TT #33076)
Mr. Naffziger: I had to go to the Planning Depart—
ment to find out for myself..
Mayor Browne: But in the tract office was there no
such information posted?
(Audience replied in unison that they were not given any informa—
tion at all. The Mayor asked that one person at a time speak.)
'(Joma,n (Did not identify herself)
We were not given any information at
all. We were not given any informa—
tion whatsoever about anything except for the fact that our
children were going to be bused to school and we were even given
the wrong information on what school. We were told they were
going to be bused to another school and then they were taken to
LaSeda. We have had trouble with LaSeda School, they will not co—
operate with us. We have had problems with that because we were
given misinformation on the school. Other than that we were not
given any kind of information on what was going in except . . and
I got that information by going down to the Planning Department and
talking to Mr. Diaz and he told me there were going to be single
family dwellings in our area. Other than that he did not say there
was going to be an apartment building going up. I was not even told
that. I was told those areas were going to be park areas. As soon
as I heard this I.couldn't believe it because I had just seen him in
August and he never mentioned it at'all. We were all very suspicious
of what was happening because we felt this.was just being thrown on
use
Mayor Browne: I will ask a question here now. I made
• a statement I have been in these offices
and seen these maps — now remember that
was on the �openingd!d-ay and then probably somewhere down the line
they were pulled off the wall ---- do we make inspections periodi—
cally to these offices. -and make sure that all this information is
available as required by our request, Mr. Diaz?
Mr. Diaz: Mr. Mayor and members of .Council, with
regard to the plan map, the plan map
or a map showing the Woodside Village
plan is not required to be shown by the developer. The one require—
ment that is made with regard to the schools is that a statement has
to be posted in the sales office with regard to -th.e difficulty
presently being encountered by the School District. In addition,
it is also required that the statement be put on. the tract report,
the white paper that is required to be signed prior to buying./your
house. Staff does check to see that the tract report does have that
statement with regard to schools and also check the tract report to
make sure that all other statements in there are correct and we do
visit the sales offices from time to time and make sure the items
with regard to the school district are up there. If it is taken
down when.we go out there we ask that they put it up again, but the
white tract report is in addition to this. And anyone coming into
the Planning Department we have not only the map that you have up
there now but in one of thePlanning Assistant's office we have a
• huge map covering the entire wall that the individual can look at.
We also hand out an 8 x 11 copy of the- Woodside. Village Master Plan,
also a copy of the Master Plan text which sets forth all the
development standards. If either it is requrested.directly or if
in our conversation with.the indi.vidual.we feel that perhaps there
is something in the text that would clarify the situation with the
individual we hand it out.
Page 25
CITY COUNCIL 12/13/76
ORAL COMMUNICATIONS (Re TT #33076)
Mayor Browne: I recall when,we went through all
these problems encountered by people
in other developments we expressed a
concern about this and that this information should be made
available to the people. I would think if -this h'as been a mis-
understanding that we make.that.a requirement that they display
the map of the area delineating all these things.. It is my
understanding that was a direction two years ago and I have gone
into the office and I have seen this very map in there.
Mr. Diaz: Right. There have been maps in the
offices but froml,thess-tandpoint of
requirements it Was not"a require-
ment and until this time we have not had this difficulty. How-
ever, there are other cities and we will.contact'them to get some
of the language specifically as to how they have solved this pro-
blem. We try to make it as concise and clear as possible when the
individual comes into'the office and'th.e School District was our
main and primary concern so we did -require that.the notice be put
up and specifically stated in the tract report which has to be
signed by the individual prior to his purchasing a home. Also,
we have gone out from time to time and examined to see if the
statement on the School District is up. Sometimes we find them
absent and have to require that they be put up, but we have to
rely mainly on the tentative tract report and that we check out
and it is submitted to the Planning Department by the Real Estate
Commission to make sure it is accurate. There have been times when
we have had to call back and have it changed before the final copy;
is drafted and signed by the prospective purchaser.
• Mayor Browne: I don't know how the rest of the
Council feels but on my own I would
say in view of the fact of what is
coming out here tonight plus what has come out in the past relative
to schools, services, etc., I wouldn't want you to look into other
cities. I would like to institute something that our City would
require in relaying information to these peopl,ewhen they come into
a tract office to buy a home so they know what kind of a community
they are getting into - - whether there is going to be apartments
across the street, apartments in the neighborhood or whatever -
make it a requirement to post a map like that within the office
and explain it to those desirous of moving into the community.
Mr. Diaz: With the Councils' permission then
and I don't think I have your permission
but I have your direction, I will have
the planning staff go to all the sales offices tomorrow and give them
a map requesting them to formally display it and we will attach a
note on that map that if there are any questions at all to contact
the Planning Department and we will follow that up with a letter to
the respective developers requesting that the map dropped off be
prominently displayed in the sales office.. This would include those
areas where the development plans have already been approved.
Councilman Tice: Mr. Diaz -'it must be 20 years ago and
my memory is not what it used to be, but.
it seems to me that the State Subdivision
requirements, there were certain things that had to be in those maps.
It probably has changed since then but I would like to get a lead on
what is.actually in the maps they give to expected buyers. At one
time they used to have some of those requirements in there but it has
been twenty years since I looked at the subdivision requirement laws.
s
•
Pa a 26
CITY COUNCIL
12)13/76
ORAL COMMUNICATIONS
Re TT #33076
Mr. Diaz:
Mr. Tice, we
will have
that informa-
tion.for you
at the next meeting.
Councilman Miller:
Mr. Mayor, Mr.
Diaz mentioned
'srequesting".
Is that
strong enough
•
language?
Mayor Browne: We will request first and from here on
any developer that comes in again for
approval of a tract map or a precise
plan through the Planning Commission we will make it a requirement
that it be posted. I thought this was understood a few years ago.
Mr. Diaz: Well as I said we have seen maps in
the offices, I have seen it myself when
I bought in the area but evidently they
are not there now.
Mayor Browne: This will be in the nature of an
enforcement thing that periodically
we check the sales offices and if they
are not in compliance close them down because we are not going to
put up with this. The City Council has to sit here and take the
burnt of some of the misgivings and goings on in the development
area and I am not for this. If we have to go through this every six
or eight months we better have some guidelines for the future out
there.
Mr. Diaz: I think we would all concur with that
Mr. Mayor and we will duly inform the
• developers that are there and have their
sales offices put up the map and require it of those who do come in.
,.'Joanne Beaver I am glad this came up because.with
this map I have no idea what this
means. It tells me where my .
neighborhood park is, where the library or fire station is, but it
doesn't tell me where this little No. 14 parcel is.' For all I know
it could just be another tract or homes going in. We had no idea
of what was going in when we moved'n.. I asked. I called six
different schools to find out which school was taking my daughter.
I called but could•get no information and -we felt they would tell
us when we go there. We just didn't know what to do. I got this
map from the City but it still didn't tell me anything about that
area. I would like to have clarified what this apartment is going
to be. Is it a singles apartment or a family'apartment?
Mayor Browne: It looks like there is a mix in here.
It looks like there are 57 singles and
then the balance of them could be taken
as family apartments.
o'anne Beaver Is that really what is going to happen?
Is it truly going to be a singles apart-
ment? If we ever get and from what we
heard already we won't get our school, but if we did, what is that
• going to do for our children if there is a singles apartment right
across from the school?
Mayor Browne: When you are talking about "singles"
you are talking about one person?
s
i
Page 27
CITY COUNCIL
ORAL COMMUNICATIONS (Re TT #33076) 12/13/76
Joanne Beaver An unmarried one person apartment.
Mayor Browne: I think you will find that the
majority of these apartments
calculating by the averag.e..,. would.
be 228 legitimate apartments for couples or more, and 57 for
singles. So that is an overwhelming majority in favor of the
family type apartments.
Joanne Beaver One other question. What is going -
to be the specifications for this
type of apartment? Are they going to
be allowed to run these places down? I have seen a lot of apart—
ments where they allow their kids to run around half—dressed and
half —fed. They run through the streets, that type of thing.
I know. We escaped it so many times and we thought by living up
there we would be raising our children in a little better
environment because we have had to fight apartment buildings
everywhere we have gone and we have seen what has happened. This
is what upset me. I don't want my children to have to go down to
the school or wherever and have to be near this type of environment
and we just wonder what is going to happen if this apartment is
allowed to be brought in. If the standards are going,to be upheld
or allowed to be relaxed and any kind of person move in. Is there
going to be certain specifications for these apartments?
Mayor Browne: Yes they come in with a precise plan
on the apartments.
Councilman Shearer: Mr. Mayor. I think we are confusing
• the things and I don't mean to be
arbitrary - correct me if I am wrong,
Mr.. Wakefield. The City is not empowered to control specifically
whether you or that gentleman there can,move into whether it is
an apartment or a house in the Influential Tract or anything of
this nature. The City has the power to enforce building codes,
development standards, things of this nature but to say the City
will control whether or not people properly feds their child — —
yes,.there are rules and regulations for that but that comes under
the power of other departments. We don't have that kind of con—
trol of apartments anymore than we do of single family homes. We
do have control in regard to the maintenance of the facilities
itself, the landscaping, those types of things, but beyond that'
we have no police power to control anymore than we do to say to the
developer this is a singles only development. That is up to the
developer as to who he rents to. We have no control in that area
as.desirable as it may be to you or me. The law does not allow us
to do.that.
Joanne Beaver I realize that and the reason I ask
is when I was in Mr. Diaz's office he
said the idea of Woodside Village was
to be of quality family envorinment so everybody could live without
the fear of anything happening in the neighborhood. That was the
original concept of Woodside Village, to give families a chance to
live without having the fear of anything happening or any kind of .
• I was under the impression from the statement Mr. Diaz made to me
that this was supposed to be a ooncept for families, an environment
for families and for that type of thing to go on I was very shocked
when I found out they decided to put these apartments up.
I was under the assumption the
apartments were going to end at the street of Temple —they told
us there were going to be no apartments in the.area, they would all
CITY COUNCIL Page 28
ORAL COMMUNICATIONS (Re TT #33076) 12/13/76
be single family dwellings. That was why.I became so upset when
I heard about it and I know a.lot of p;ople.were shocked when they
heard apartments were.going in when we were all told they were
going to be single family dwellings and we are all concerned about
our children.
• Councilman Tice: I would like to point out one thing
though,that we do have apartments
interpersed with single family
residences throughout the City of West Covina.
!aoanne Beaver I was also told that doesn't matter
and this came from Mr. Diaz — that
West Covina is a city but Woodside
Village is a city within a city and we have to live by rules that
do not govern West Covina. And if I have -to bring up a certain
specific rule for that to back me up I will. And Mr. Diaz and
everybody that lives on my street and talked with me knows that. I
have had words with Mr. Diaz and the Planning Commission because.
of different things that are -g-oi-n-g on..in -W'est Covina. As far as
I am concerned I have no personal things with you but I feel .
West Covina leaves a lot to be desired for me.' I feel the city
has not done what they say they are going to do for the community.
I don't think it is fair for the Woodside community to have to.have
separate laws and regulations or zoning or whatever from the City
of West Covina and that is what Mr. Diaz told me.
Mayor Browne: He was, I think, relating to the
development standards. in the planned
community. You have a mish—mash of
• zoning throughout the whole balance of West Covina.
__'Joanne Beaver I can't for the life of me understand
why they 'have certain rules that we have
to abide by when the City of .West Covina
which we are living in they don't have to worry about certain rules
that 'we do.
Councilman Tice: You can get arrested down there just
as easy as the rest of us.
Joanne Beaver He told me we had to live under
different regulations than the rest of
the city.
Mayor Browne: I think you are misinterpretating.
However, I think when you sit in on this
meeting that,we are trying to arrange
to quiet all the concerns here, hopefully you will have a better
understanding of what occurs here ina planned community development
and what transpires in -a- city that is regulated by individual zoning
changes. that come up as development is desired, which is not too
desirable by other people. We appreciate your comments tonight.....
''Joanne Beaver One last question. I would like to
• know why a developer -is not restricted
or whatever, why they don't have to
put something in the newspaper or notify people until just before it
happens. I know I am so angry right now that I probably could tear
this.whole.building apart and I know everybody.in here is, because
we were told at the last minute when there is.nothing we can do.
Who in the heck is supposed to — you people were elected to help us
•
E
CITY COUNCIL Page 29
ORAL COMMUNICATIONS (Re TT #33076) 12/13/76
and do things for us as a community and we are not even informed
of what you are doing until the very last minute and we have no
recourse unless it is a law suit.for..the whole community.
Mayor Browne: Mrs. Preston, was this published in
the paper?
City Clerk Not before the Council. Before the
Planning Commission hearing it was
and notices were sent.
Councilman Shearer: We could have made a personal visit
to everyone of these people that
are here this evening, knocked on the
door and told them what was going to happen and that would not have
addressed the point that I think these people are concerned about
and that is the issue of 25 dwellings per acre. As Mr. Wakefield
said on a number of occasions, some in response to specific
questions, we are not deciding on that issue this evening. We
could have made all the notices in the world and it would not have
addressed the issue of whether or not this particular piece of pro—
perty designated on that map as 25 units per acre, as designated
on the map you have in your hand as 25 DU's per acre (that stands
for 25 dwelling units per acre) that would not have changed that
designation.
I don't know how many ways to say it.
I feel as you do, perhaps somewhat frustrated with certain
allegations made, that we didn't notify you — but notification
would not have changed the issue before the Council this evening.
As Mr. Wakefield stated there is no way at this point in time that
we can do ,-itswithout exposing ourselves to law suits and probably
damages but to do what we did. The Mayor has suggested an informal
type of meeting to advice you of what has transpired up to this
point but it is not a lack of notification because that would not
have done the job either.
Councilman Tice:
There was quite a
the Valley Sunday
that covered this
The second page.
large article in
Times this Sunday
meeting tonight.
Councilman Miller: Mr. Mayor, she brought up a point
that I would,'like to see addressed,
in reference'to — — it sounds to me
like she is saying the quality of the apartment complex, at one
particular point. Do we have any figures as to the minimum starting
range — let's say bachelor apartment, what the rent will be per
month? I have seen some figures but I.want to confirm it. Is it
around $200 to $300 depending on the size? Hopefully this could be
addressed to the quality of the apartments-.
Mr. Diaz: Mr. Mayor and members of Council, the
developer is here this evening — if I
am incorrect, but the basic rents
start at $210 and go to $310.
Councilman Miller: Thank you. Having lived in apartments
and still do.at'this present time, that
to me doesn't mean you have a person
that is poor. When you have to come in,for not even one bedroom and
pay $210 that is pretty expensive.
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CITY COUNCIL
Page.30
ORAL COMMUNICATIONS (Re TT #33076) 12/13/76
Joanne Beaver
Really — but we didn't know. I
don't know how about anybody else
but I am paying $400 a month on my
house and I just put in a
$10,000.'pool and if,somebody is
going'to come in and live
in that area and run the whole area
down! We just tried to get
out of that same�situa.tion. It was
all rundown and they were
all very expensive homes but they
allowed apartments to come
in and it all ran down.
Councilman Chappell:
We have in West Covina a'number of
apartments and then homes around the.m:.
As I look at: them and drive around
through our city, they are
not rundown. I..think we a.re assuming
some things that perhaps are
not going to.happen.. At least I hope
and pray they are not.
Joanne Beaver We are just listing the facts.
Councilman Chappell: The facts in West Covina are that .we
have apartments, this is not the first
apartment complex to be built in West
Covina. We have many of them throughout the city. Right next to -
residential homes, right across the street, right next where we have•
had to build a wall to make sure there -is a separation between the
houses and apartments and we don't see what you are saying to be
true and we have had apartments in our city for 15/20 years and the
homes around them are not junky and rundown. I really think that
what we are talking about here is two entirely.different things.
Joanne Beaver Well we.came from
Councilman Chappell: We all came from some other place —
I have been in West Covina for 23
years and,I have not seen a house run
down next to an apartment complex.
Joanne Beaver I haven't seen any proof of that yet.
Councilman Chappell: Drive around the city — that is the
easiest way to prove yourself.
Pat Boyle
2611 Erica Avenue I live in an :Influential Home. I
West Covina don't have any complaints with the
Planning Department office. When I
bought I knew of the planned density
are that we are talking about this evening. I understood the
maps and thought they were presented fairly well. The only problem
is at the time they were speaking primarily of density only. I
would like to know when was the first occasion when a plan was pre—
sented to the City of West Covina or the City Council proposing
apartments be built as opposed to any other type dwelling?
Mayor Browne: The original presentation was made in
169 or '70 when these density factors
were all taken into consideration for
the overall development. There were MF-251s down along Amar Road
just off of Azusa, that was the first increment, there is another
increment that sets back off on the other side and now this one is
coming in. Those were all set in 1969/70.'
Mr. Boyle: Don't th,e densities for condominiums
somewhat compare to apartments?
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CITY COUNCIL Page 31
ORAL COMMUNICATIONS Re TT #33076) 12/13/76
Mayor Browne: Pretty much so but usually their
densities at a much lower factor,
you are talking more in the area of 72
to B. which is almost equal to a homesite area.
Mr. Boyle: Thank you. Here are a few of the
observations.I made that might help
you gentlemen.in doing your job a
little better. In my conversations with Mr. Sloman, although he
did tell me what the proposed density was and the plan was for
that parcel of land it was never indicated to me that apartments
could potentially be built on that land, he did indicate condo—
miniums or similar type dwellings could be. built. Thatis what is
most devastating to a homeowner to find out that apartments are
planned to be built right down the street as opposed to someone that
has purchased their. -Tight in the City of West Covina just like the
rest of us have. I wo-uld prefer to share my community with indi—
viduals that have a vested interest in the community, not more of
the transiet type individuals.
One thing I might suggest is an
earlier notification of what type of dwelling is planned to be
built on a particular piece of property as purchased by a developer.
I would like to enlist the help of the City Council, perhaps it
might be t.00 late in this instance, but in regard to the Bowl Area
I would like you gentlemen to give us whatever help you can to see
that the densities are as low as possible and that, we get condo—
miniums as opposed to apartments or single family dwellings where
one will share a vested interest in our community.
Mayor Browne: This ca.n all be brought out as input
at the meeting you will have with
staff. I am sure that if they have a
map of the Bowl Area they could explain it now but we won't go
into that inasmuch as we are scheduling meetings for orientation.
We will get some input also as to how to deal with these things
but first I want to make sure these tract offices are giving out
the proper information.
Mr. Boyle: One other point. I purchased two
homes in Woodside Village, one built
by Donald Bren and the other by
Influential and when you look at the tract maps it appears we
live close to South Hills Country Club and Alta Dena Dairy
doesn't exist. That is one thing that hit me.
Mayor Browne: Well as the crow flies you do live
close to South Hills Country Club
but to get there you have to drive
18 miles.
Mr. Boyle: And as the aroma flies Alta Dena is
pretty close.
Joanne Beaver: There is one thing I want to say
about that. This map he has, when
Mr. Diaz was showing me where my yard
was my house was on my next door neighbor's lot. Now can you
answer me that? You can't give a map out to somebody and say this
is how it is gaing to be when their house isn't even on their lot.
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CITY COUNCIL` 17/13/76
ORAL ^
Gil VelooquezI would lihe�to address myself to
2626.Eleno Mr. Tice, if I may. 285 apartments
West Covina happens to be our shopping center.
You stated you
had e shopping center
` going in and you fought it — well this is our shopping center.
We would like to have the same opportunity and have the same
changes made. I may have been given the wrong information but my
employer who llveo in West Covina tells me that this Council
chamber changed some apartments to single dwellings on Merced
near California. Now I think this Council, maybe rightly so,
found it fit to get lOn% cooperation uiththia developer up here.
Councilman Tice:
That was done at the developer's
request. �
Mayor Browne:, And the ounerte request is something
else — when they come in with a down —
zoning request - we welcome it and
grant it..-. ,
Mr. Veleaqu z: Rightly so.
.
Mayor Browne: That is if the pro -posed prp'oot meets
the oritaria'/
'
Mr" Valenquaz: Now what we have here is just ec hand—
ful of people° but k:rom'ma ny
people are against ment's It
you feel some obligation to uork, �with us -and help us convince this
developer in changing his mind9 �
'
Mayor Browne: Mr. Vol $�^ I oan give you all the
-- oomp,aasn I' oincei. ely feel. I have
oompaeo1qn^ fmr* you but I^ thinh it has
been fairly well pointed out what our limitations are. Now if you
want us to help you discuss this with the.developer, elopgr° sure we will
talk to him but I could turn around and talk to this wall and get
more results out of it.
Mr. Veleaquaz:'
'
Well ybu:don'It khowthat.until you
try,
'
Mayor Browne:
`
I am ui,llint t anything _ g1.o try ��ny ng once.
� `
,.Mr. Veleaquez:
^ '
Are you saying nouthat you will try?
°
Mayor Browne:
I am willing to'try anything once. I
will be happy' to' talk to anyone.
Mr. Vel " esquez:
That is.all we can ask of you. If
you do your best to help us convince
`
this gentleman to change his mind that
is all we oon aoh^
8±oune: '
I don't know that we can convince him
but we willtalk to him,
0 CoonoiIman Tice:
You made a comment to me about the
.
shopping center. The difference was
that particular piece of property
was zoned RA at that time and the question- was whether it was to
be zoned commercial or what
it had not been zoned at that time. I
knew it had to bo developad
ao I rather have the apartments.
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CITY COUNCIL . Page 33
ORAL COMMUNICATION'S (Re TT #33076) l2/l3/76
Mr.^ Veleaquaz: Right, but you understand our
' fight and you will help ue^ We
understand that this gontlama� is
not doing anything wrong, he has his zoning and is putting
apartments in as his pocketbook tells him, but it doesn't fit the
community.and we want your help.
Mayor Browne and Councilm6n Tioo e}ls+uored both at once that
they would talk to the developer and if we can do anything else
we will be glad too.)
Larry Hill I am the ogre, I am the developer.
New Vista
Developer
Mayor Browne: Will you change the zoning on your
property to single family?
Mr. Hill: I would
` be very happy to have theae
people come in, they seem willing
and aggressive and if they can show me
how the plans uoulct work better'on the piece of property and
certainly oconomioaIly» we are willing certainly to do it. By that
we mean the price of the land to be compatible with the price of the
land of surrounding property and if they can bring it down to that
and purchase it down to what we have paid for it we will be very
happy to talk about it, but let me got serious now because I don't
think that is a realistic statement.
Now as you mentioned there are situa—
tions where you are right adjacent to single family and -you have to
have an alley or /aR 8t uall* this is surrounded by s zeeto» you
have wide oenter.divided highways, actually everything has,been
done to accommodate the higher density. We have built homes on acre
property, in fact we are building now in Hacienda Heights and we
have built in LaHebra Heights and we went through the same thing in
coming into the community and attempting to get half acre on acre
property. And the people came in and -said we don't want you
bringing in people that live on 72OO-sqmare foot lots — as if
those people were any less of homeowner than'theyugro° But this
goes on in every community where we are building on half acre and
they look down on someone with a smaller lot. It just so happens
that this is situated so well for apartments. You have patio homes
planned to the south and I believe these homes are on 6000 square
foot lots. This. is the type of buffer tha:tyou look for between. the
7300 and the lQvOOO square foot lots and homes in' -he 85»000/90v000
bracket.
So from'a land planning �tandpoint this
is an ideal situation for apartments. No ,the people that claim
they never knew this was there this is an unfortunate situation,
We sell single family homes and we know that you.bave to have a
Commissioner's Report signed by each individual before -they buy the
home and in there it otatao there io'publio.tramaportation» there
are schools, the distance to schools, the shopping _ — I don't know
, I don't recall if it says apartments inthe area, I don't think it
goes into the housing in the aroav but 6grtai�ly the oohoola»
transportation, etc. It was available. I know when we came into
the community to look at it and u�ar e - � n d th
' e just a oon� r e �ae e
people buying a house because uhon we are getting into a community
to build apartments we want it to be very successful. These apart—
ments are going to be luxury apartments and this is uhy`ue piokod''
CITY COUNCIL Page 34
ORAL COMMUNICATIONS (Re TT #33076) 12/13/76
in an area where the homes are new and surrounding it in a price
range compatible to the rental range we are planning.
We feel what.we are planning in a
lower density than what is required is because we want to develop
a luxury apartment. There are plenty of apartments down in
Woodside and th-e Continental apartments that are in a lower range
and we felt that this site deserved a luxury and better type of
community and because of that we are developing four tennis
courts and racquet ball and a recreation'center that will be very
desirable. All of these things, the amenities, the landscaping,
we worked with the planning staff for four months before we
brought 'it to the Planning Commission.
We started out with 345 units, which
was under the 375, and we thought we were good boys doing that.
We got down to 315 and the planning staff got us.down to 285. Now
it isn't that we reluctantly did this but because of what we
finally decided we wanted and what we felt would be a complement
to the community this is what we finally decided to develop.
Now I can only assure the residents
of the community that we are not here to damage the community.
When we come into the are and decide to buy a piece of property
and invest over 7 million dollars we have as much to lose as they
do. We intend to have the type of residents that are going to be
of benefit to us and to the housing development. We don't intend
to see it go down because we don't like to see 7 million dollars
go down the drain. So what I think we have heard here tonight is
natural, the people do fear something that is unknown but if you
look at it in a practical sense we are not here to do anything that
is going to be detrimental. You don't go into a community with
that kind of an investment or that idea in mind, or at least you
wouldn't go into this type of new community, planned development
where you have all of the regulations and they should be very
thankful that the planning staff of the City of West Covina is
very strict and not the way I heard here tonight — that anything
goes. I can tell you we built in many communities and the City
is tough, you have a -high standard for parking requirements and
the surrounding wall and the landscaping, everything was gone
over very thoroughly. I can only tell you that we are willing
to cooperate and would like to do everything for the City and
local residents. We think apartments fit into the community.
We certainly don't like to develop and;:come into a hostile
environment. We will be happy to sit down, attend any meeting,
show them how and why we developed the plan, etc., but to imagine
that this is not desirable for apartments from a professional land
planning standpoint, I don't think any private group hiring
professional land planners could get any recommendation that this
should be turned from apartments to single family, if you look at
it from a professional land planning standpoint. Thank you.
Mayor Browne: We are going to have to take another
intermission here, the tape has
run out. We will have a 10 minute
recess.