10-01-1973 - Regular Meeting - Minutes0
MINUTES OF ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
IN JOINT SESSION WITH HUMAN RELATIONS COMMISSION
CITY OF WEST COVINA, CALIFORNIA
OCTOBER 1, 1973.
• The adjourned regular meeting of the City Council called to order at
7:30 P.M. in the West Covina. Council Chambers by Mayor Pro Tem Chester
Shearer. The Pledge of Allegiance was led by Councilman Russ Nichols.
ROLL CALL
Present: CITY COUNCIL - Mayor Pro Tem Shearer;. Councilmen: Young,
Nichols, Chappell
Absent: Mayor Lloyd (In San Diego on City busi-
ness)
HUMAN RELATIONS COMMISSION
Present: Chairman Maeda; Commissioners: Teall,
Smith, Cano, Wallace
Others Present: George. Aiassa, City Manager
George Zimmerman, Public Service Director
Lela Preston, City Clerk
Jeff Butzlaff, Administrative Analyst, Jr.
Ross Bonham, Administrative Analyst
Mike McDonnell, Staff Reporter - S.G.V.D.T.
Lyn Giles, Youth Advisory Commissioner
.At 7:32 P.M. the chair adjourned the meeting in the Council Chambers due
to lack of an audience and for the convenience of better communication
reconvened the joint meeting of City Council and the Human Relations
Commission in the City Manager's conference room. Meeting reconvened at
7:40 P.M.
JOINT CITY COUNCIL -
HUMAN RELATIONS COMMISSION
SESSION
is either too liberal or too
change it.
Mayor Pro tem'Shearer: The purpose of
this meeting is
to evaluate the role of the Human Relations
Commission in light of the enabling
resolution and determine if the resolution
conservative, and if'Council so desires`to
Chairman Maeda: 1 would like..to..take:.this:.opportuni.ty to
thank.the:Council for the opportunity to
meet with you and discuss the scope of
the Human Relations Commissions' responsibilities and duties. We are
here not to challenge anyone's remarks or comments of the past but
simply seeking guidance and optimistically seeking better ways to
foster understanding in our community. I would like to say that this
subject, the scope of our authority, as covered by Mr. Wakefield in his
letter, he did spell out our scope very well and I wholeheartedly agree
with what he has stated.
We had a meeting and we discussed what
• shall we present to Council regarding our scope and this question of
our scope of responsibility seems constantly to arise whenever legality
is involved. As an example taking from the transcript of one.of our
meetings "Meanwhile Fred Smith is to continue his investigation of the
legal implications of this issue and, if necessary, will contact FEPC
for specific direction." We would like from Council a more specific
explanation of their thoughts on this. How far can we go in writing
letters to an individual, a group, or the San Gabriel Valley Tribune?
And should our letters first be approved by Council?
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HUMAN RELATIONS COMM. MEETING 10/1/73
Mayor Pro Tem Shearer: Perhaps before we get into a specific
discussion on the points in Mr. Wakefield'
letter and the report submitted by Staff,
it might be well to have the Council members state some of their more
general concerns. Councilman Nichols, I believe, was instrumental in
• drawing up the original resolution setting up the Human Relations
Commission and he was the one that initially commented on some of
these items, although it was not just his concern but all of our con-
cerns. So Mr. Nichols, if you care to, why don't you expound in gen-
eral on this subject.
Councilman Nichols: I found over the years that one of the
most difficult things to talk about is
issues without involving personalities.
We can come together in a setting, whether it be a PTA Executive
Board or the School District Board, or State Highway Commission, or
whatever and an individual begins to talk about an issue and
immediately attributed to the remarks are personalities, the indivi-
duals involved somehow are a part of it. Obviously, I have given a
great deal of thought on what.I am about to say and I want it not
attributed to any personalities involved. We have people here"
serving on this Commission who are very dedicated and striving
mightily to do a meritorious job, probably much harder than they
would have to in the office of anyone of our other Commissions. But
after having been one of the fathers of the Human Relations Commission,
observing its mechanisms and functions and observing turnover and more
personalities involved in this Commission than in any other, I have
come to the conclusion that it should either be completely disbanded
or its whole structure changed in terms of the enabling resolution
that constructed it.. Members of the Commission trying to do a service
for the community, and certainly they are, run constantly against
. limiting aspects of the enabling resolution.
I, at no time wanted to imply to the
community or to the Council that I am opposed to the Human Relations
Commission, but I am saying that this Commission is constantly running
against the original resolution and that there have been times when
in my judgment they have exceeded the authorization of that resolution,
and think it is.time the Council. took a close"look at the resolution
and reach a conclusion. One, either the original purposes have been
fulfilled and/or the purposes no longer exist, in which case the
Commission should be phased out; or perhaps do exist, which in this
event the Commission should be given the latitude and authority to
carry out their purposes.
We felt originally there were purposes.
I don't know that those purposes do exist now. I think they do exist
but probably in a different framework. I do know the enabling
resohtion, in my judgment, does not support the kinds of actions that
the Commission has evidenced it would like to engage in.
So at some point we are going to have to
discuss what these aspects are. What the Commission can or can't do.
What it should do or should not do. In careful analysis of the
resolution I believe we have a toothless Commission, which in itself
is largely frustrated in its actions, and the Council should either
• increase its authorization to the extent that certain conflicing
laws will allow or say finally - we have calmed down, we have
integrated and thanks a lot but we are closing you down. That is the
way I feel.
Councilman Young: I do appreciate Councilman Nichols'
laying his thoughts right out on the
line, cold turkey. I am not sure I
agree with all of those thoughts, I feel that there are many many
areas in this City that'the Human Relations Commission can.be a con-
tributing factor, either to help prevent the type of situatiLon to'.
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10/1/73
develop which we do not want in the City, or to try to, as it says in
the resolution, pinpoint areas of tension. And as I recall a few
years ago when this new apartment at California and Cameron came in, a
lot of people were concerned about the impact this would have on the
central city area because of its low cost attractiveness and felt it
would attract low income people and hence crime, being the two things
often linked statistically. I felt at that time rather than sit
• around and worry and moan about what might happen that we should have
an effective program in mind to keep those things from happening. I
feel it is good human relations to do that.
I am concerned if the Commission on
its own motion or its°own authority goes outside the City, like to the
FEPC for example, for direction. This type thing, or any other Agency
that exists outside of the City, I think if the Commission feels that
such an Agency should be involved the Commission should advise the City
Council and state the reasons for this and these kinds of contacts
should be made either by the City Council or on specific authority of
the City Council. On the other hand I quite agree with Mr.,Wakefield's
analysis, if the Commission feels that the Daily Tribune is continuing
a practice which is unfriendly to good human relations, T am not
offended by the Commission making a contact with the community paper,
although it is a little broader than a community paper, it is regional
but located in our City; so I am not offended by that.
Mayor Pro Tem Shearer: Councilman Chappell?
Councilman Chappell: Not right now. Thank you.
Mayor Pro Tem Shearer: I would agree that in many situations
the Commission is "toothless" as stated
by Mr. Nichols. I think we should have
• Commissions which will work not as a puppet on the string of the
Council. We should have Commissioners that are conscientious in doing
their.job and if it becomes necessary to make recommendations that
perhaps some of us do not like to hear, that they should feel free to
go right ahead and make such recommendations.
I am not sure I would go so far as what
Councilman Young has said, that anytime they wanted to consult with
an outside organization they would have to get our authorization. I
think it would depend on the purpose of that contact. If the purpose
was to gain information to assist them in making a recommendation to.
the Council as to the action that the City should take, then I think
that is one thing. If the consultation is an end in itself to see
what the Commission can do to take action independent of the Council
then I think we have an entirely different story. I am not sure what
the intent of the contact in this particular case was but I see nothing
wrong with the Human Relations Commission, Planning Commission,
Personnel board, or anyone of us on the Council in gathering informa-
tion to help us do our job. The problem comes when it comes out in
the newspaper that the Commission is consulting with the FEPC.
Some people perhaps can read into that more than what is really there.
I personally am not in favor of doing away with the Commission. I
think in these times it is well to have a Commission, even if the
Commission isn't as active as some might want them to'be. The fact
they are there and ready and not after a situation arises mobilized
• and brought together.
I would like to see a Commission only as
active as necessary, not over -active. These are sensitive areas.
An over -active individual or group can sometimes generate situations
that might not otherwise occur. I would like the Commission to be
just as active as necessary depending on the time and situation.
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•
•
Okay, now we have all had our say on the
Council, do any of the other Commissioners wish to comment?
Commissioner Teall: I would like to make a statement, if I
may. .Number 1 - I honestly do believe
that purposes do exist for the main-
taining of the Human Relations Commission in this City: I disagree,
if I may, in regards to we should sit back and do nothing except when
something happens. I think the whole purpose of this type of Commission
is to do exactly as we were directed originally to do which is to
initiate and encourage activities which tend to promote inter -racial
activities within the City of West Covina and this is what we are
trying to do this past year. As a group we have been trying to
activate ourselves in the community, rightly or wrongly, to bring
forth to the City of West Covina that this is a great place to live,
both ethnically and racially.
The City Attorney pretty much agrees
that what we have been doing hasn't been wrong. The one statement
that seems to bother the Council is the statement by Mr. Smith
about going to the FEPC, and if I remember correctly, it was primarily
to find out if we were right or wrong,in our,discussion in this area
of the Tribune.
Commissioner Smith: That is correct.
Commissioner Teall: And not to formulate any action. We
realize our direction is not as an
action Commission. At a certain point
we would come to you and say this is what we would recommend in a
situation like this, but if we have to ask your permission to write a
letter under certain circumstances then it would have to be spelled
out more definitely in .the authority granted by Council, otherwise
we could sit.back and say can we write so and so? We would like to
know where can we or can't we?
We think we are all here working
together, this is not a battleground but a planning board, trying to
make this a better City for all. I really think this group has
worked together well, we disagree violently sometimes, we have
great crowds down here sometimes one or two people show up, but
we do agree in principles. No one is trying to take any authority.
In fact I don't want it. Thank you.
Commissioner Wallace: When Councilman Nichols was talking
about either broadening the scope or
dissolving the Commission something
came to mind which I think may be the crux of the matter and that is
its definition as'being purely racial and ethnic. I think the
human relations problems that exist are not limited to race or
ethnic groups. It could have to do with age. The older people or
the youth. I could be geogrphic location in the community. I
can't see it being sex, but I will throw that in since it seems
to be timely. Perhaps it is our concept of what human relaions is
that is the crux of the thing. Perhaps we could be of more assist-
ance to the community if we weren't thought of as strictly something
to call on if there is'a racial problem.
Councilman Young: I think Commissioner Wallace makes a
good point for consideration, particu-
larly in reference to the geographic
and age situations. We could consider the role of this Commission
as a human relations Commission dedicated towards building a better
community to live.in and work in and de-emphasize the racial/ethnic
thing as a part of it, not necessarily a large part of it.
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Mayor Pro tem Shearer: I would like to direct a question of the
Commission. Maybe I misunderstood what
Mrs. Wallace said. Is it your impression
that the resolution limits you, or the general feeling of the people
is that it is a racial/inter-racial group only? Because I don't
• read in the four items I have here - the charges and purposes of the -
Commission - I think A. and D would cover age; sex, and in A in the
case of a legal violation, and there are laws, that say you cannot
discriminate against sex or age in addition to race. B and C do refer
to racial/ethnic activities and D is to keep the Council informed on
all problems. So this then would not be limited to ethnic/racial
problems.
Commissioner Wallace: Perhaps the emphasis exists in people's
minds only and not .in its legal defini-
tion of the resolution.
Commissioner Cano: In going over in my mind some of the
meetings we have had in the past I think
the description of a frustrated group of
people hit it right on the nose. Part and parcel of the problem I
believe is the scope and mandate of the resolution itself. I believe
with Commissioner Wallace there are other aspects that I would
certainly be interested in as a Human Relations Commissioner. And the
only part that I would say that would sort of direct us to do that
aspect of it would be the local inter -group relations, to keep Council
informed on all problems of local inter -group relations. That mandate
is in essence telling us only to keep you gentlemen informed, but not
really take any action. The action is in A, B, and C, and I would
read A, B, and C to be.mainly with ethnic problems. I see the problems
• not only to be with the aged, I see the problems of mental health, of
alcoholism, of drugs, the whole gamut of human problems.
I would voice my preference, and as
Councilman Nichols says either let's redo the resolution to include
these things or in essence take the position of doing away with the.
Human Relations Commission because in fact we cannot deal with the
organism in total then what we are doing is frustrating each other in
our efforts in any one direction.
Chairman Maeda: I would like to go through A, B, C, and
D. In reading the scope of authority
I would say it would cover practically
everything on human relations. I think the question arises as to how
shall we implement the actions we have actually discussed at our
meetings - how far can we go - what can we write - what kind of
correspondence can we carry on? I think anything outside of our
meeting, well what I get from this meeting, anything outside of our
meeting should be approved by the Council. Is that correct?
Because I think A, B and C does cover most every phase of human.
relations.
Councilman Young: The problem I think is as stated better,
by Councilman Nichols than I can state
it - when the Commission becomes an
active Commission doing things in the community, you are contacting the
• FEPC for positive direction and that word "direction" is what throws
everybody. If you are seeking FEPC for information as a resource
group then I doubt that would be too disturbing but "direction" we
feel should come from the Council based on information given to us
including any information garnered from any government organization
or any other organization that would be pertinent. But when you
become activists,you are functioning as an official arm of the City
of West Covina and this is where we can run into problems if we aren't
fully coordinated because the Council is the policy making body of the
City and any action that is taken that is policy in action. That is
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where we need to find out where we stand, to really properly communi-
cate.
Commissioner Cano: The question I would have, is there
anyone here, at least in our group, that
doesn't understand that to be so? In
essence whatever action needs to be taken and we are talking about
actions.....
Commissioner Wallace: You are talking about legal actions?
Commissioner Cano: No, not only legal action because
there could be a variety of actions
outside of the City, I am talking of
official actions taken by the Commission outside of the City; I am
not talking about gathering information but determining a position
and then going forth with that position outside of the City. I
always understood that the Council would take that action if action
were necessary. I would like to ask that question of the
Commissioners - is there anyone that doesn't understand that to be
so?
Commissioner Teall: I don't know of any action we have
taken that would even include such a
thing.
Commissioner Cano: Meanwhile Fred Smith is to continue his
legal implications with the FEPC,
getting back to this specific case?
I think most of the problems we have evolved to really have been from
a misunderstanding of reading into something that isn't there.
For instance that action of Fred Smith going to FEPC, I remember
specifically he was going for information. And,secondly, the action
we were hoping to take on the sidewalk was not to involve ourselves
in the engineering field but only to deal with a human problem,
because the kids were walking on peoples' lawns and out in the
middle. of the street and the principal came to us and said these
kids are going to get killed or hit in the head by some irate
homeowner or bit by a dog. We need a sidewalk. So as such we
approached it as a human problem with the recommendation that we
would go whomever. That part I really don't remember, if it was to
go to the Council or just gather information from the Engineering
Department and then take to the Council for action or just what we
were going to do, but I know it was strictly a human,peoples' problem.
Commissioner Teall: It was a sounding board, in fact. The
_way we read it these children were having
trouble and as a human Relations
Commission we supported the whole concept of sidewalks. We weren't
saying do it or anything else.
Councilman Young: I was at that meeting and it was an
afterthought actually. The principal
wasn't there to discuss sidewalks at
all but he happened to have an audience and it popped into his mind.
Commissioner Wallace: Probably because I had called him that
day about the street problem, as a
private citizen.
Commissioner Teall: The one area that might not fit into
this but I would like a reaction to is
that of working with the Senior Citizens.
We are actually not doing very much but only acting as a sounding
board for the Senior Citizens that come to us with their feelings and
complaints and we suggest where they can write to get answers to their
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HUMAN RELATIONS COMMISSION MEETING 10/l/73
problems, such as the dial -a- program and Mr. Cano got the
information for them. I don't see anything in here that would direct
us in this area other than we are furthering mutual understanding and
• respect among all racial/ethnic groups - if you want to dig into that
one sentence. But it might be in opposition to what you gentlemen are
thinking you want of the Human Relations Commission because literally
it doesn't fit into the definition of the scope of authority of the
Commission.
Commissioner Cano: I got a call at my office, an irate
lady asking the Department of Health
and Welfare to investigate the West
Covina Health Department because they had literally told her to go
to hell, using her own words. I couldn't understand it or believe
it. We took some action and found out that some of the people down
here had not been, according to her, courteous, so we went to the
County and it was ironed out, but there are other human problems
that we can deal with that in essence I think will give the City
of West Covina more visibility as a human relations oriented City.
Councilman Chappell: Perhaps in some of these areas, take
the sidewalk episode for instance,
perhaps a recommendation should have
come right from you, a letter from the Chairman to the Mayor saying
we have discovered something happening here, we have a sidewalk pro-
blem, something like that, can you help us? In other words
dialogue back and forth between the Council and the Commission.
Maybe that is where we are falling down. Also the same thing with
the health problems. You know the City has no health department but
• we go through the City Manager's office, we tell him when we have a
problem - will you contact the County? This you could do through the
Council and this would be an affirmative action type program. Maybe
that is the one step we are not taking. We read it only in the
minutes. We do have a Council liaison attending sometimes but maybe
that is our problem. We really aren't going to do too much in just
reading your minutes. We wait until we hear from you and it says
here in the resolution - keep the Council informed.
Commissioner Teall: I think this is a very good point. I
think we are all under the impression
of "being informed" is through the
minutes, but I can see where if we become a talkative group for a
couple of hours you are busy like everyone else and you are not
going to sit down and read two hours of minutes, so specific informa-
tion should be directed to the Mayor and Council by letter. I think
this is a point well taken.
Commissioner.Cano: Using the format that we use - the
problem, the solution or alternatives,
and then let Council make the final
decision.
Councilman Chappell: As far as eliminating the Commission, I
don't see that. This is like an ice-
berg, you are sitting on top and
something could happen at anytime in our community. We have seen it
all around us, and having a group that is sitting there able to
start reacting to problems immediately, because you can be called
within a matter of 24 hours notice, so I think there is a purpose
for your being there and maybe as Mr. Nichols said an enlargement
of your goals and rewording the resolution so the average person
could pick it up and know that you are involved in more than just
racial problems, because for many years I thought that was all you
were involved in. .
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Councilman Nichols: Well then if it were satisfying to each
and every member of the Commission as
well as the Council to believe that all
of the concerns can be improved through better communication we can
• readily solve all of these concerns by hereby saying we pledge to
talk more or listen more - - but I don't defer to that, as valid as
it is. That the problem that exists is just one of more communica-
tion. I think it is a functional basic built in problem that the
original resolution that established this Commission was for a time
and era and the time is now not then and the conditions are different
and if you try and patch it together and keep going under a ten year
old resolution it is neither going to meet the times of today or .
be satisfying to this Council, or the situations. This existed when
there were no blacks in our community, there were a handful of black
people in the community and agitation was beginning.and realtors
were getting uptight and people were starting to talk and a few of
the original concerned white people of the community came to the
Council and said - look West Covina should take a lead in these
matters. So the establishment of this Commission was a racial factor,
it was nothing else and every word that went into the resolution that
is here today had a basic racial connotation. It didn't have at that
time concerns for what can we do for the old folks or West Covina, or
how the kids get to their school, and who is walking down the street,
etc. It was a racial situation in West Covina then and we began
looking into it. At that time on the Council there were two advocates
for the stablishment and two strong negative viewpoints - we don't need
a Commission; and here was old lonesome Councilman Nichols in the
middle trying to bargain and buy and get something together that
everybody could live with. So basically yours truly drafted this
resolution and it was a compromise. A compromise that recognized,
• one - that the authorities told us the State and Federal Government
had pre-empted enforcement and investigative aspects of the racial
problems. That we could talk in West Covina and counsel and illuminate
but that we could not investigate from an enforcement standpoint.
And all of you that have had extensive experience in these areas
recognize the doctrine of pre-emption.
So finally this resolution came to pass
at that time and we began moving in this area to the extent the
resolution enabled us to do. Today these crises have largely passed,
truly they have, because West Covina has been the leader in attempting
to indicate that human beings are human beings in all things. Now
some people can indite that I suppose, but at least as far as the
government of West Covina is concerned West Covina has led the way
and human relations do extend beyond this. There are blacks now
fighting with blacks on the same blocks .that whites are fighting
with whites and there are kids fighting with kids, and people
arguing about this and that, that far transcend that earlier concern
that we had regarding a racial problem only.
What I am saying is if the Commission
is to go further into the racial elements, fair employment practices,
etc., the Council is going to have to give more authority because
you step any further and you are transcending the resolution and
possibly the law as well. If you want to go into other areas
• where there are indeed considerable needs in our community, the
resolution is rather nebulous, but more than that the community
assumes you are a racial Board. Probably somebody is being
discriminated against and can't buy a house! So if the Council says
well we want you around as a body for the Council I think then the
Council should take some action, some position that would delineate
your role to bring it up to 1973, that says the things you are to do
in 1973. If we do less and leave it as it is and you go right along
some people will say - well they weren't set up to do that and they
don't have the authority to do that.
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HUMAN RELATIONS COMMISSION MEETING 10/1/73
I think it is an area of delicacy. I
think if someone comes to you and says we want to change your role
to audting the relationship between the Sons of Italy and the West
Covina Garden Club, you may feel offended that we are trying to take
• the meat away from your job but I think nonetheless a realistic view
has to be made and if you are going to continue on into the next
decade as a forum representing the City of'West Covina there has to
be a careful look at your role and the Councils' charge. Perhaps it
would be best done through a Committee of.Councilmen and members of
this Board sitting down and discussing the needs, the law, etc.
If we are going to go out and go on with the original resolution
we will only have frustration and misunderstanding over the years, so
I think we should either retire you or renew your role and charges.
Commissioner Smith: I agree with what has been said by
quite a few people tonight. Looking at
the scope of the Human. Relations
Commission I see it as a very broad one. I am not an attorney but
I am basing this on the fact we have had the house attorney expound
on A, B, C and D on numerous occasions and I recall the one time he
made the statement that it is a very broad resolution. First off I
would like to say I think as a Commissioner I would like to see the
Commission have the same respect as any other Commission in the
City. By that I mean we are looked upon as being a Commission -
some of us being professionals in the area of human relations
because our daily livilihood is in that area - and as a result of
that we are aware of State and Federal laws relative to discrimina-
tion in all fields.
• I would like to see the Human Relations
Commission be one that not only people bring complaints to but one
that other Commissions and people in the City might come to to obtain
some advice or information on how something should be approached in
this field. I think what the Commission has attempted to do and perhaps
it has walked the thin line from time to time, but I think the
Commission has tried to.do what has been implied here and that is
"to initiate and encourage inter -racial activities".
Getting back to the .Affirmative Action
problem which has not been discussed too much tonight, I think what
the Commission was trying to do, the Commission being charged with
watching what is happening in the area of discrimination and since
we are a Human Relations Commission we more than anyone else in the
City are aware.of what is going on and of the new laws, and as a
Commission we would be falling down on•our duties if we didn't bring
certain things,to the attention of the City and we have been
attempting to do that.
Councilman Nichols: May I interject at this point? Now
here is an area where I have a concern,
and where there is definite disagree-
ment. I don't believe that the Human Relations Commission has any
constituted role whatsoever in dealing with the employment practices
of the City of West Covina. Zero. Not only as I envision the
resolution but as I see the law existing. I don't believe that you
• have any authority to deal whatsoever with any employment matter in
the City and I base that judgment on the fact that we have also
established by ordinance a Personnel Board in the City that deals
with the City's employment practices; Secondly, if there is any
failure in the practicing or the upholding of the legal intent, that
failure is a failure of the City Council of West Covina and if
members of the Personnel Board individually or collectively get an
input or a feeling that there are discriminatory practices operating
in the internal employment practices of the City it is not a matter
of the Human Relations Commission to deal with other than you can
immediately call that to the attention of the City Council, because
we are the City of West Covina. The City Council is elected by the
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10/1/73
people and is the City of West Covina. Therefore, without a charge
from the Council if you attempt to begin dealing in employment
practices and personnel relations of the City you are in fact deal-
ing with the Councils' prerogatives. That does not say that you as
a Commission should not immediately give to us any input you might
• receive from those in the community.that feel things are not right,
but I am talking about becoming the investigative body in terms of
.the City's employment. practices,that devolves only upon the City
Council. We are elected by the people to operate the internal
family. We charge the Commission in its role with operating in the
community.
Now perhaps other Councilmen do not
agree with my interpretation, but if they do not then this is one
area I want clarified because I feel this has been destructive of
the role of the Personnel Board right now which feels demeaned and
diminished because it is not called upon to play these kind of roles.
I realize I am shooting with both
barrels all cocked, all loaded and all firing, and that is exactly
the only way we would come out of this meeting with anything worth-
while.
Commissioner Smith: I would like to continue. I think
there is a breakdown in communications
to a degree. We sometimes read into a
statement or we don't exactly hear what a person is trying to say and
I think that is what brought this about just a moment ago. The Human
Relations Commission I don't think has intended to involve itself in
personnel problems. We have only tried to do what we are charged to
do and that is if we see a problem to point it out to those bodies
that handle that problem. Now if you say we see a problem and have
not communicated that problem, well then I think we really do need
to sit down and discuss what the Human Relations Commission can and
can't do.
Now what brought about the Affirmative
Action problem, in the beginning the NAACP has been watching certain
employment practices not only in the City but other companies within
the City, they approached us informally about maybe trying to bring
to the attention of the City affirmative action, and certain people
had noticed certain laws being violated by the City, inadvertently;
such as the proper signs not being displayed as per Federal.and
State laws. With this information brought to us as a Commission we
attempted to pass this information on to the proper people in West
Covina. We did.not push because it is not in our charge'to push.
We just brought it to the attention. We realize in the area of
human relations if the element of fear was not in the heart of man
we would not have the racial problems that we have in the world
today. If the element of fear were not there people would under-
stand better, there would not be a misunderstanding of semantics.
You would not have to be careful of whether you used the word
"direction" or "consultation". FEPC, a part of the State Government.
Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) is a Federal Agency and
these two terms if you were to approach nine out of ten people in
the country today, black or white, they look upon those organizations
• as organizations in the business of enforcement of laws. As a result
of that people are sensitive to talking to these agencies, but what
people don't know is that these two agencies concilliate and give out
information, they are there to serve as the Police Department does -
call and get information.
When the Commission suggested we were
going to contact FEPC we were not going to contact them to find out
how to circumvent the City or bring a charge against anyone. in the
City but to obtain information: These two agencies, 90% of their
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CITY COUNCIL and
HUMAN RELATIONS COMMISSION MEETING
Page Eleven
10/1/73
work is to give information on the phone to people or coming out and
talking to people and clarifying things, because many of the laws on
the books today are quite complex and contradictory. The State is
not in agreement with the Federal Government and as a result employers
• and others are caught in themiddle many times. I feel as a
Commission before we could properly advise the Council of certain
elements that we should go to the Agency that has the charge of
enforcing and find out what their position is, what are they reacting
to? So when we approached you we could say this is the problem as
we see it and this is what we feel has -to be done according to the
interpretation of the FEPC - that is all the Commission has tried to
do..
I think there is a definite need for the
Commission. Many of the problems that the Commission has solved you
have not seen in the minutes. I think we do need to sit down and
studythe.scope of the Commission and in some instances make it a little
more liberal in that there have been times in the past where there
have been problems brought to the attention of the Commission, not at a
Commission meeting but maybe a phone call in the middle of the night
and we have responded to it. I think, even though not stated so here
in our charge, we as a Commission if someone calls and is distressed
I think I would be remiss if I were to tell that person - and I have
had persons call me as late as midnight in tears over some leaflet
they found on their door and I have responded to it. I think we would
be remiss if we said we can't talk to you now we had our meeting last
night and it is just too bad you didn't get that notice last night and
we can't help you. But we have responded as a Commission and as a
result of that we have kept down a potential problem at one of the
. apartment houses in the area due to the fact that Commissioners were
contacted and we went out and solved the problem in conciliation, not
forceable conciliation, no newspapers were involved, and as a result
the problems were solved. We have had several problems like that,
we.have handled them and are quite proud of the fact because we feel
as a Commission that the residents of the City should not have to go
to the FEPC, or CORE or any of the other agencies, because we feel we
as a Commission are here to help conciliate .and solve these problems.
Hopefully we will be able to.continue to do so.
Section A - "To study formal complaints
of unlawful discrimination and prejudice in the comunity and to offer
services of conciliation in connection therewith." I would like to
see some discussion on that particular problem due to the facts I
mentioned a few moments ago. We have worked out a few problems
primarily by circumventing Section A because the person called with
regard to a housing problem and we said give us a chance.to work it
out before going further. If we had a charge so set up that through
a staff liaison we could contact him apprising him of the problem
and talking with at least three other Commissioners available, reach
a consensus of opinion as to how it should be solved - I think we
should be set up in such a way as other Commissions in the City
because many times people can't wait 30 days to have a problem solved
and if we can't give it to them they are going elsewhere to get it
solved. People will say I went to the Human Relations Commission and
they couldn't help me I had to go to NAACP, CORE, or whomever.
• We hear this all the time, you are a do nothing Commission, you
can't help us, and we have been attempting to destroy this image
and to get the community involved in solving the problems we have
here.
Commissioner Cano: I think instead of dealing with
generalities, in all due respect to
Mr. Smith, I think we should get to
the meat we are here for, and that is what are we going to agree on
and what do we disagree on? I would like to deal with
Councilman Nichols' recommendation that we discuss the personnel
CITY COUNCIL and
HUMAN RELATIONS COMMISSION MEETING
Page Twelve
10/1/73
problem. I happen to agree that the personnel problem is within the
scope of the Personnel Board. I would hate for the Planning Commission
to start dealing in Human Relations, as I am sure the Personnel Board
is having its own problems would hate for us to start dealing with
• personnel problems that are by law mandated to. them. With that, why
don't we start out by discussing - Number 1, the personnel issue and
find out if we are, if we could and should get involved and to what
degree?
Commissioner Teall: I would like to state to my knowledge
we have.not literally infringed on the
Personnel Board. Some of it I -disagree
with listening to Mr. Smith, many times I have disagreed. I got to
the point one time where I really didn't know what I was talking about
and the Council agreed that we should possibly get a representative
from EEOC which we did. I think one or two of the members from
Council were at that meeting and this young lady did a beautiful job
of telling us exactly what the EEO C was and its function, and I was
quite satisfied and educated and happy to leave it alone because I
felt here we had communications at its best. We had members of
Council who came to the meeting and this was the purpose of it and
you took it back and this was your bag from then on. I don't think,
Councilman Nichols, we really infringed as a Commission on the
Personnel Board, or the Planning Commission or anyone else, and just
to disagree slightly, I wish everyone would involve itself with the
human relations aspect.
Commissioner Cano: In essence that is what I am talking
about, the action is really not .up to
• us but to the City Council.
Commissioner Teall: That is what I am saying - the action is
not up to us but to the Council. But in
regards to the.question of the Personnel Board, again I am sort of
surprised because I had no idea we were even infringing in that area
except for the fact we brought in a.member of the EEOC just so we could
be better informed.
Chairman Maeda: This may have come about because of the
monthly meetings we had with the Mayor.
At the first meeting I think each
Commission discussed what our activities were and at that time I
remember stating the Affirmative Action problem and what was being
done. This may have been where it all came about. As a Commission
at our meetings we did not discuss this problem in regard to action
but only to find out more about it. Affirmative Action Program is
nothing new, we have had it for about two years now and this is why
I questioned it at that time as to what has been done.
Commissioner Cano:
So what is it we can do or can't do?
Commissioner Smith: May I clarify one thing before going on?
Reading the Council minutes I think
there was a discussion. as to why the
• Human Relations Commission was assigning a certain Commissioner to
attend certain Commissions in the City, and I think this was brought
about - I believe at one time we had Councilman Lloyd assigned.to
us by Council and I think he suggested to us that he would like to
see us assign a person to the various Commissions so we would have
some communication and know what was going on, so when it was brought
out that Fred Smith was going to the Personnel Board meetings he
was going primarily to listen and come back and discuss with the
Commissioners what he heard.. It was not to say we were going to do
this or that, only as a listening board.
r
Commissioner Teall: That is right. I am assigned to the
Youth Commission, when I can make it.
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CITY COUNCIL and Page Thirteen
HUMAN RELATIONS COMMISSION MEETING 10/1/73
Not to try and influence them or anything else, but again to report
back and develop better communications.
• Mayor Pro tem Shearer: We could probably sit here all night
and discuss, agree and disagree on
various points, we need to take a
particular direction because we have two alternates. Councilman
Nichols started out with the suggestion of disbanding the Commission
which I think from the consensus of what I have heard both on the
part of the Commission and the Council is not a very good alternate.
The second alternate is to perhaps review the existing resolution in
light of the things that the Commission would like to do, to be able
to do with a free conscience without fear of being zapped by the
Council in public or private and not to accuse the tail wagging the
dog, and I would suggest that the Commission do this; not in legal
terms because we have an Attorney for that, but to list the various
things in the' areas as a Commission that you would like to have the
authority to do and present this to Council for either concurrence
or disagreement. Those items that we concur on we will instruct the
City Attorney to draft a new resolution to allow this expanded role,
assuming it is an expanded role, and to eliminate these problems
in the future that, we are now having. Otherwise I see no end to
our deliberation and discussion this evening. You .people, as
Mr. Smith indicated, several of you are experts in this field, perhaps
you have a little more .feel of the real problems and needs in the area
of human relations than the Council. So you tell us what you would
like to be doing, want to do and the Council either agrees'or dis-
agrees and we then instruct the City Attorney accordingly. Is there
• anyone else that would like to elaborate on this?
Commissioner Teall: I think it is an excellent idea and I
would like to suggest that we have,
if possible, one member of Council sit
in when we are discussing this so we have a feeling of what we can
do. I think we are all heading in the same direction but I think it
would be very helpful.
Councilman Young: It is a dangerous thing, Mr. Mayor, to
have a Councilman sit in and partici-
pate in a deliberation, because you
have five Councilmen each with a different view and I think if you
arrived at your collective points of view and presented it to the
Council it would be a little bit better than the Nichols' Human
Relations Commission or the Young Human Relations Commission or
whatever.
Mayor Pro tem Shearer: I would somewhat agree on that. I feel
in this area I want the Commission to
tell me what you want, separate and
apart from any constraints from any of us. I might disagree but
that should come in our discussion once you agree amongst yourselves.
We want to hear your comments, not unduly influenced by the Council.
Councilman Chappell: I think they have our feelings and we
• all agree there should be some
restructuring. You will not all agree
with what you are going to put together and we will have .the right
to look it over and strike out things and it certainly will not be a
personal thing we do. I remember one time working with a group
putting together something and when we started to strike out they
got to feeling it was kind of a personal thing. If we were to change
some portion of your recommendations it should not be taken personally.
We have a political area that we also have to work in besides the
practical area.
Commissioner Cano: I would like to go on record with
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CITY COUNCIL and Page Fourteen
HUMAN RELATIONS COMMISSION MEETING 10/1/73
suggesting some of the areas that I have always thought we should be
dealing in: health, law enforcement, education, alcoholism, drugs,
welfare, transportation and the environment. As far as I am concern-
ed I see'some sort of a human problem dealing with all -eight of those
• areas.
Councilman Nichols:
you do the greatest good?
that your spectrum becomes
in, yet if you become too
in the community. You are
and pick out those areas f
There's where I see the essential pro"
blem, everything is a human relations
need. Where do you focus- where can
If you leave yourselves open so broadly
too big you can't do it, you have to hone
narrow you lose thechance to be effective
being given a very great challenge to try
or 1973 that you can be most helpful in.
Councilman Chappell: An area where you can achieve results and
not be pounding your head against the
wall. You talk about transportation - I
have been sitting on Committees all year long and I am so'thoroughly
confused today on the whole story and I have sat dozens of hours
listening to experts on both sides with all kinds of degrees and they
can't even agree, so we couldn't agree in areas like that as to the
answer. But there are plenty of other areas.
Commissioner Cano: The human rea would be for the transporta-
tion of the youth and the aged.
Commissioner Teall: As you said earlier - it isn't for the
70's it was for the 601s. With two
• basic changes in B and C, by saying:
To initiate and encourage activities which tend to promote harmony
and progress in our community." Forget the inter -racial and inter -
ethnic. And in C "To foster mutual understanding and respect among
all groups."
Councilman Nichols: Yet it is so refined that in two or
three months the Council might be
saying - now they have gone too far,
and the Commission will be saying - do we really have the authority
for doing it?
Commissioner Teall: If you leave it as broad as it is
but drop the racial and ethnic in B
and C we can then be mandated by
Council at any time saying we know there is a problem in such and such
area and we wish you would look into it, or we can come to you and
say we are looking at transportation, do you object to us forming a
Committee to work in this area and you might say "no, that is'fine."
I work for people and I work for you and if you tell me "no", you
are still my boss, but this gives us the broadest range to do the
things we might want to do without changing it every few years
because something else comes up.
Councilman Nichols:
• recommendations to Council as
ahead as a.Commission and then
together as political animals.
I can agree with what has been said
and that perhaps you gentlemen should
sit together and come up with your
to how this Commission should move
let us tear it apart and put it back
Mayor Pro tem Shearer: I think an ideal resolution would be
general without specifying the six or
seven items and then we come up with an
eighth one and it is an outdated resolution. It should be.two things.
It should define as broadly as possible the areas in which you will
operate and secondly, the depth you will operate. Spell out what your
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CITY COUNCIL and Page Fifteen
HUMAN RELATIONS COMMISSION MEETING 10/1/73
function is as well as the area. Beyond that I think the resolution
could be very simply stated. (Councilmen agreed.)
Councilman Young: I would like to say to Fred Smith - once
• we eliminate fear from the face of the
earth we will no longer need government
of any kind.
Commissioner Smith: I have one question. Maybe.I wasn't
listening properly. If a problem comes
before the Commission in the area of
employment, say XYC Market down the street, or a person comes to us
with a specific problem relative to West Covina that they are being
discriminated against, in instance 1, do we deal with the XYC Market
or we go through the Personnel Board?, Instance 2, the person who
is alleging discrimination on the part of the City of West Covina, do
we deal with that problem as a Human Relations Commission or we
we say you have come before the wrong Commission?
Councilman Nichols: The Personnel Board has nothing to do
with the XYC Market, it has to do with
the internal operations of the City.
When you start talking about the hiring practices of the City or that
some foreman down in the garage is discriminating in his recommenda-
tion as a result of the exam you are talking about the internal
hiring practices and in that instant I don't envision that you have
any role whatsoever. If the XYC Market is involved in some activity
you may have a role. Actually the State of California in court
decisions has pre-empted the municipalities right to legislate or
. find in areas of discrimination and employment in areas of the XYC
Market, but we put into our resolution that you could conciliate and
try and solve the problem on a cooperative basis. We also put in
in order to prevent this sort of thing where a Commissioner comes to
a meeting and says a friend of mine and I don't want to tell you who
it is said that Mr. X said such about so and so and Mrs. Y said
something else and they are having a terrible time down there on
Michelle Street. I don't think we need today in our community a lot
of loose talk about allegations against people unless the person
offended is willing to stand up and say my name is Russ Nichols and
that guy did this and I think he is,wrong and I would like to make
a written complaint. Now if Mrs. Jones comes to you at a
Commissioner and says I am willing to tell you this and to file an
official complaint in writing then you may ask the Commission to
conciliate the problem, but that is as far as your authority goes.
As far as the guy that calls you at
midnight, well bless your heart, anything you can do in human
relations to get people together because you are known because you
do carry a position of trust and to talk informally amongst your-
selves to try and get people together and gatherings, etc., and
perhaps get on the horn and call Chief Sill and say this is going
on maybe you can do something about it - in a tactful humane way
solve problems, well that is wonderful. We all do that every day.
Some guy comes to me and says "can you fix this ticket". . that
is a human relations problem and you have never had one of those!
If you are talking about your function, your official role, it is
to accept only those complaints that somebody stands behind, it is
in writing and then you can only conciliate. That is what the
resolution says and that's all.
Commissioner Smith: If the applicant makes a specific charge
against the City by alleging such and
such?
Councilman Nichols: Then you say that is not in our
prevue
and you should go to Council or the
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CITY COUNCIL and Page Sixteen
HUMAN RELATIONS COMMISSION MEETING 10/1/73
Personnel Board. At every Council meeting under Oral Communications
we have people appear —this person can say -you five men hired the
City Manager to run the'City you are responsible for everything he
• does and everyone does and we think he and his subordinates are doing
something wrong and we want to tell you something about it. We have
a time in our meeting when citizens who are concerned or disgruntled
about any thing can stand up and speak, because we are directly
accountable for that. I don't think your elected City Council wants
to delegate to any of its Commissions its responsibility for being
accountable for the actions of its appointed officials. Because I
think that would be a rather unusual type of delegation. So only
.in that area where the City of West Covina is directly responsible
then.I think Council should be responsible.
Commissioner Cano: But in a case where somebody calls and
says the City is discriminating because
of this or.that and for us to say that
is not within our prevue = I would imagine that would be aborgating
part of our responsibility, because I think our responsibility at
that time would be to inform the person as you have stated and
then carry it further by bringing it to your attention.
Councilman Nichols:
You can take
the
exact literal inter-
pretation of
your
role and say I am
sorry that is
not
our job.
Councilman Young:
This happens
all
the time, all of us
get calls on
the
Council involving
and we don't go to that
•
specific personnel
employee, we go to
the
out in the community
City Manager with
those things. Otherwise
we are in trouble
and
the City is in trouble.
Commissioner Cano: That is the step I think we should take
at that time, the minute we have
someone relaying a problem. I always
feel the energy we expend at the beginning is a lot less than the
energy spent later on. I would like to get a clear understanding
of the problem and interpret it to the City Council or City Manager,
or through whatever system we develop.
Councilman Nichols: If I were a member of your Commission
and somebody down the street came to
me and said "listen I understand they
are practicing racial discrimination over in the Parks Recreation
Department" I would go right to the Chairman of my Commission and say
do you think this has any substance, or is this guy a kook. And if
he said maybe he does, well about that time I would call the Mayor or
a City Councilman and pass it down the line to the City Manager, but
I would not at that point take any action in my official role
because then it comes a pre-emption of the Council role.
Commissioner Teall:
With regard to everybody sitting on a
different Commission - do you suggest
this is not a good idea?
•
Councilman Chappell:
It was brought up at the meeting I
attending and I think it was an
informative type of thing. Some of
you haven't been to a
Council meeting other than to accept your
appointment and I think
it is. a good idea to go around and see how
the other Boards and
Commissions function so you are knowledgeable.
Some of these meetings
are very interesting. We don't want to make
it mandatory and say
you have to do that. City Councilmen all have
assignments and if we
can attend we go. It has to be voluntary.
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CITY COUNCIL and Page Seventeen
HUMAN RELATIONS COMMISSION MEETING 10/1/73
Mr. Butzlaff: As staff liaison am I allowed to say
anything? (Permission given by the Mayor.)
Iwould like to clarify one thing. As
staff liaison I have been charged to represent staff at the Commission
• meetings and be the liaison between the Commission and City Council,
but one of the things the liaison is inevitably faced with,
particularly in the Human Relations Commission because of all these
delicate areas that evolve is to try and relate them to the original
resolution. When it came to the area of Affirmative Action, and at
this point is when I was essentially assigned to the Commission, this
is sort of a continuous ongoing problem. It began last year and there
was a realization that there was overlapping elements between the
Human Relations Commission and the Personnel Board and ultimately
working with Mr. Duvall we realized there was this overlapping and
there wasn't anything that could be tied only to personnel work or
only to the Commission, so we did appoint a liaison man - Fred Smith -
to attend the Personnel Board meetings, and Herb Tice of the Personnel
Board as liaison to the Human Relations Commission, to try and
open up channels of communications between the two so they could
understand their problems. In other words it is similar to the
movement in Social Science now,. instead of one person being in
Political Science and another person an Anthropoligist and each working
in their own prevue there are problems with overlapping elements and
both can approach. And this essentially was what we were trying to
do.
Councilman Nichols: Research and consultation areas, as you
say have a different approach attached
to it, I think it varies and in the
• results where there is a question of authority attached at some
point there has to be a definition as to the one that carries it and
the one that doesn't and the associate has to give way to the
directive role. I think when you talk about having the same kind of
relief on the relationship we just finished discussing between the
Planning Commission and the human conditions to give input, to get
the benefit of their experience and background as a consultant to
the City body, that is great, but when you get into the area of two
liaisons operating a joint program supposedly responsive to uncertain
direction that is Council direction, I think you are headed for
trouble because the Personnel Board has to function as a Personnel
Board and the Human Relations.Commission has to function in its role
of human relations and tying any two Commissions. together through
the liaisons that results in joint decisions as to which way to go
each Commission can be diminished.in its role. I believe this
Commission will invigorate itself in terms of its role and allow the
Personnel Board to do the same and consult when consultation is
requested and not attempt to act jointly. Where there are those
things that come up I think it would be very wise for the Commission
to seek the guidance of the Council.
Mayor Pro tem Shearer: Does the Commission understand, .there
was no disagreement with what I said
what the Council would like from you -
which is a proposal of what you would like to do, perhaps even a
model ordinance draft perhaps along the lines stated by Councilman
• Nichols, as soon as possible for our further action. That is
clear? (No one opposed.) Is there anything else to come.before
the joint meeting? We have another item on the Council agenda
tonight, you are welcome to stay if you wish.
Chairman Maeda: I am sure the Commission is all in
agreement as to what we are to come
up with and we appreciate this meeting
with you.
Commissioner Cano: I might state that the whole Commission
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CITY COUNCIL and
HUMAN RELATIONS COMMISSION MEETING
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10/1/73
was apprised of the fact that Mayor Lloyd would be out of the City
on city business.
Councilman Young: Viewing the minutes of a recent meeting
where there was someaction postponed
pending this meeting I trust the action
of the Commission will now go forward as well as the other little
study you are going to do. That is all I care to express about the
Woodside Village School District problem. It is a distinct
community problem and if you can come up with a scheme to bring
Woodside Village into the West Covina School District.....
Commissioner Smith: Mr. Mayor, I would like to make one
comment, that is I have enjoyed
serving.on the Human Relations Commission
and I think West Covina is a wonderful City and proof of that that I
really like West Covina is that I drive one hundred miles a day to get
to work with the President of my company trying to move me out. I
would like to say I have enjoyed working on the Commission and would
like to continue serving. My interest is in keeping West Covina the
leader that it is and looked up to throughout Los Angeles County.
In my work with the County I am known as "that -guy from West Covina
again" - they are always talking about West Covina does this and that.
We are quite proud of what you gentlemen have devised for the City.
(Chairman Maeda adjourned the Human Relations Commission meeting at
9:15 P.M.)
LAFCO -.SPHERE OF Mayor Pro tem Shearer: This item is
• INFLUENCE STUDY III - on the agenda
because I believe I counted wrong.-. I
called Mr. Aiassa after last week's
meeting and he briefed me and said it was held over for two weeks and
I added 2 and 2 together and figured tonight would be the only meeting
we would have and it would have to be discussed tonight and later I
figured out 2 and 2 is 4, so whether we want to proceed tonight with
the discussion of this or defer it to next Monday when all of the
Council including the Mayor who was at the last meeting of LAFCO to
give him an opportunity to state his feelings in the matter.
Councilman Nichols:
I would accede to the majority.
(Mr. Aiassa advised that the Council
meeting will be held on Tuesday because Monday is a holiday.)
Councilman Young: I think Mr. Lloyd has a great personal
interest in this, he has attended all
meetings, so I think in courtesy to
him we should defer discussion at the present time, if we can do that
without placing an undue burden on staff.
Mayor Pro Tem Shearer: I would agree, if I can ask a couple of
questions tonight of staff. (Agreed)
We have some areas of conflict start-
ing in the northwest corner, I believe the LAFCO recommendation was
to split at the railroad and Vincent. The City of Covina wants it
all.
Mr. Zimmerman: That is correct. They want all includ-
ing the part that was to go to
Irwindale north of the railroad,
excepting the area south of Badillo.
Mayor Pro tem Shearer: The compromise Schabarum introduced
was that the area had to go to both
spheres of influence and anything
�-Im
CITY COUNCIL and
HUMAN RELATIONS COMMISSION MEETING
Page Nineteen
10/1/73
south of Badillo would be West Covina and north. would be Covina.
Mr. Zimmerman: That is correct - and between Sunset
• and Vincent.
Mayor Pro tem Shearer: What really do we want?
Mr. Zimmerman: In that regard I have to go into comments
of the Commission which are not in the
report and which I think are very
important. The next step according to Mrs. Bonnell, after the
spheres of influence are established and after possible annexations
have been made to the cities based on the sphere of influence will be
mandatory annexation and deannexaticn policies and that means that
areas which are already ina City and seem to protrude.into,another
would-be a deannexation and annexed to another City. She is
admittedly looking to the future and reading the minds of the
legislature; however she made that comment first at a meeting last
January and secondly she made it last Wednesday after the
Commission hearing in direct response to my question. So she is
still of the same mind. If you look at the map you will find if
Covina were to get all it wanted it would leave a long T shaped
peninsula in West Covina including.our only industrial area, the
Tribune Plant, which gives the City a lot of recognition and
identity, in a little peninsula. So it seems to me Covina's real
move was to gain our very important industrial area.
Now there was an old agreement with
Covina which was mentioned by one of the people from Covina a year
• or so ago that Vincent would be their westerly boundary and that was
staffs' proposal and the one we supported at the Commission hearing.
The situation still remains no matter whose sphere of influence that
goes in it can still be annexed by any City. The sphere of influence
is only one piece of input and if the people want to go to another
city they can. ,
Mayor Pro tem Shearer: That is under the present legislation?
Mr. Aiassa: Yes, with the exception it has to be
100/.
Mayor Pro tem Shearer: But that legislation as you already
implied could be changed to make it
mandatory legislation.
Mr: Zimmerman: Yes, that is correct.
Councilman Nichols: Well we already voted once to support
LAFCO's recommendation!
Mayor Pro tem Shearer: Yes, but I think we are at a point now
if we feel it is important that we have
to speak out more vigorously rather than
say we support LAFCO and staff. I think we have to draw the line and
defend it because of A, B, C and D - whatever they are.
Councilman Nichols: I agree. The point was we are not talk-
ing about some position exclusive of
LAFCO, really what we are talking
about is the reiteration of our previous vote in supporting as a
rock bottom position the recommendation of LAFCO and yes, I am all
for that, I think it is a reasonable decision, I think any person
that was not involved directly with a community interest could see
this is an objective effort to resolve these long term interests
and I would not only go to the mat but ask you to help me up.
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SPHERES OF INFLUENCE 10/1/73
Councilman Young: I thought George stated some very
persuasive reasons and this should be
strongly urged.
• Mayor Pro tem Shearer: I would suggest in this area for con-
sideration of the Council and as
stated by Mr. Aiassa when I talked to.
him by phone this afternoon, that perhaps the two highest paid
persons of the two cities get together and perhaps they can reach a
compromise that would perhaps strengthen our position with regards to
the T and square off the boundary a little more. Perhaps somewhat
east, the dividing line might be Sunset, between now and next Tuesday.
If this can be done, fine. If not, then perhaps we have to draw our
own line and go back to the next meeting and say this is it because
of the fire station, this and that, this is why we think it should
be within our sphere of influence. Is that agreeable? (Agreed)
•
•
The next area is the small one in the
middle of the map, Hollenbeck. 'I personally see nothing to hassle
over that. It means that if this area is annexed in accordance with
the boundaries set we won't have to resurface any of the street, but
on the other hand when our people complain the street didn't get
swept we say that belongs to Covina rather than the center line. I
think that was the rational for drawing the center line down the
middle of the street, that at least the half of the street our people
fronted on would be our responsibility to sweep, cut the trees and so
forth.
Mr. Zimmerman: Exactly.
Councilman Young: I thought of that and thought we really
ought to urge maintaining the responsi-
the complaints. bility for our residents because we get
Mayor Pro tem Shearer: Was this held over?
Mr. Zimmerman: LAFCO did not hold this over, they
decided on this.
Mr. Aiassa: The only concession .they made was they
did go to the property line rather than
the center of the street.
Mayor Pro tem Shearer: I can't understand why the City
would want all that responsibility and
no income. Maybe they want to close
the street off or something.
Mr. 't-iiassa: We have the same.problem on Cortez on
the other side of Barranca. I think one
of the questions confronting cities is
when it is split in the middle in case of accidents you have two
different cities involved, but I think it is rather trivial to worry
about.
(Mr. Zimmerman was asked to elaborate on
what the colors on the map mean and he explained.)
Mr. Zimmerman: The Cal -Poly Campus was passed on
specifically by LAFCO and put in the
sphere of influence of Pomona and this
was because Cal -Poly has a portion of their campus now in West Covina,
so you would split the campus. There was a switch on the cemetery.
LAFCO's report indicated that should be in the West Covina sphere of
influence and the area next to it in Walnut would be switched from
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CITY COUNCIL Page Twenty-one
SPHERES OF INFLUENCE 10/1/73
Walnut to West Covina. This was in the LAFCO report. There was a
motion by Mr. Bond from Longbeach that suddenly placed it in nobody's
sphere of influence and this was totally unexpected, and when
. Mrs. Bonnell gave her report afterwards she indicated that she thought
it should not be in anybody's sphere of influence.
Then Walnut got up and both the Mayor and City Manager raised a con-
siderable discussion about that feature of it and I got up also and
indicated since some five cemeteries are in L.A. County that this one
should be in the sphere of influence of some City. Later on LAFCO
indicated it would make a reconsideration of this at its next meeting,
two weeks from now, although it had passed that.
Councilman Nichols: Its most recent decision was to remove
the whole cemetery?
Mr. Zimmerman: Yes, from any particular City.
Mr. Aiassa: The written report from LAFCO was to
include the cemetery in West Covina and
the contiguous area but she made an oral
report at the LAFCO meeting deleting Forest Lawn from anyone's sphere
of influence.
Councilman Chappell: Why did she do that?
Mr. Aiassa:
It is a hard thing to explain.
Mr. Zimmerman: I think it was a spur of the moment thing.
• C is the rest of the area east of Grand.
The reason Grand is chosen as the
boundary line is that Walnut said it wanted all portions of the area
between the freeway and the top of the mountain east of Grand but
left out anything west of Grand. That was again held over,. Staff's
recommendation was West Covina plus part of Walnut, the Ridge line
would be held.
Mayor Pro tem Shearer: Was there any compromise offered on that?
Mr. Zimmerman: None. Presentations on both and they held
it over.
Mr. Aiassa: Mr. Schabarum asked for a topo map, he
wanted to see the water sheds, etc.
Mr. Zimmerman: Area D along with 29 is all solidly in
West Covina along with Walnut's agreement
and Covina made no presentation on any of
the areas of the freeway excepting for E.which is a walnut groove just
west of Grand and the City of Walnut felt that should be in Walnut so
they could make a part out of it.
Mayor Pro tem Shearer: And we have no quarrel with that?
• Mr. Zimmerman: I made a report on that. The comment was
that this is all one large parcel of land
and if you do that some of that large
parcel would be in Walnut and some in West Covina which is not the best
thing.
Mr. Aiassa: I think this is why Mr. Schabarum wanted
to see the topo map, how the water drains.
And this walnut groove is setting towards
West Covina and I think that is one of the strong points - who is
going to handle that water? -
Mr. Zimmerman: Baxter Ward and Schabarum both said they
wanted to see a topo map. They do want
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CITY COUNCIL
SPHERES OF INFLUENCE
Page Twenty-two
10/1/73 .
West Covina to show its desired line along the ridge at the next meet-
ing.
Mayor Pro tem Shearer: So the areas that are in debate would be
between Walnut and West Covina - Area C.
Covina made no presentation. Area E to
a certain extent andArea B. What was Covina's position with the
cemetery?
Mr. Zimmerman: They made no comment with anything
south of the freeway. Walnut said it
should be in the City of Walnut.
Mayor Pro tem Shearer: Why do we want the cemetery?
Mr. Aiassa: There is revenue. Sales tax on caskets,
flowers and also the area not developed
is accessible.
Councilman Chappell: Plus the fact we need a distinguishing
landmark in West Covina and Forest Lawn
is not a bad location.
Mayor Pro tem Shearer: I think our argument is not going to be
based on a sales tax basis, because what
is good for us is good for Walnut. I
think we would have to base our presentation on criteria - I assume
there is criteria set up for this and that should be the basis for our
presentation.
Mr. Zimmerman: The position is weak from a technical
sense because they have their own sewer
system, and water system is California
Cities which is private, and their transportation is directly to the
freeway and they require very little.fire and police, although some
and that is our strongest point. The fire station at Barranca and
the freeway.
Mayor Pro tem Shearer: I would throw out for consideration
and direction to staff that between now
and next Tuesday that you prepare,
personally I would like to see what there is in the legislation that
LAFCO is supposed to take into consideration when they determine who
gets what, and then on each one of these areas in conflict a summary
of the arguments. Emphasize the strong points and forget the weak
points. And then next Tuesday we decide as a body whether we want to
take a strong stand on Area B or C, or what we want to do. I think
it should be based on the presentation we can make, I don't think we
should get up and make a presentation that doesn't hold much water.
If we have a strong point on C and not on B perhaps we should emphasize
that and leave.that in nobody's influence.
Mr. Aiassa: This property here in green that was
originally the Bailey ranch and was
supposed to be annexed to West Covina
and was originally until this little group started in here and that
included Forest Lawn.
Mayor Pro tem Shearer: Unless the laws become mandatory we
may never annex it anyway.
Councilman Nichols: But by not taking any action we might
foreclose any possibility.
Councilman Young: I think you have stated a very reason-
able approach.
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CITY COUNCIL
SPHERES OF, INFLUENCE
Page Twenty-three
10/1/73
Mayor Pro .tem Shearer: If you can't work something out here
that will strengthen our position then
perhaps we should go through the same
• listing of arguments so that who ever makes the presentation, which
I assume will be the Mayor, can say okay we have this and that and
so forth.
Mr. Aiassa: We are going to take an aerial photo
of that area this week.
RESOLUTION OF COMMENDA- Mr. Aiassa: Mr. Bill Geller,
TION The County Regional
Librarian is retiring,
he was the individual that worked with
the City to build the first regional
library. He actually retired as of
September 30th but is staying on for one week to break in the new
librarian.
Councilman Chappell: I would suggest we give him a very nice
West Covina plaque with his name
engraved on -it. This seems to be what
the .people like and I so move.
Seconded by Councilman Young and carried.
ADJOURNMENT Motion by Councilman Chappell, seconded
by Councilman Young and carried to
• adjourn meeting at 9:41 P.M.
ATTEST:
CITY CLERK
Is
APPROVED:
MAYOR PRO TEM
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