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02-05-1973 - Regular Meeting - MinutesMINUTES OF THE ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL AND CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, CITY' OF WEST COVINA FEBRUARY 5, 1973 The adjourned regular meeting of the City Council and Chamber of Commerce as called to order at 4:00 P.M. in the City Managerls Conference Room y Mayor Young. The Pledge of Allegiance was led by Councilman Nichols; the invocation was given by Councilman Chappell. ROLL CALL Present: Mayor Young; Councilmen: Nichols, Lloyd Chappell Absent: Councilman Shearer Others Present: George Aiassa, City Manager Leonard Eliot, Controller George Zimmerman, Public Service Director Gary Duvall, Assistant Personnel Officer Lela Preston, City Clerk Dick Oldenburg, President —Chamber of Commerce George Strachan, Executive Director Leif Ericson George Zartman Stan Smith DISfUSSIONcREGARDING: Business Improvement Tax - Advisory Board Mayor Young: This meeting is at the request of the Chamber of Commerce, for a joint session. We all recognize the business improvement is a new concept for promoting retail enterprise through the Chamber of Commerce. As envisioned by the legislation, the Chamber of Commerce Advisory Board will be the Advisory Committee to the City Council. Money will be collected and placed in a trust account and allocated in accordance with the desires of the City Council for the purpose of promoting retail enter- prise within the City of West Covina. I think we all envision that the money, in essence, will be appropriated to the Chamber of Commerce and as a City Council, we will be assured that the expenditures of the money is in accordance with the enabling legislation which makes it proper for collection of the money. That is where we stand at the moment and we look to the Chamber for its program for the use of this money. I think that is where we stand and that, is why we delayed the commencement of the program until July to give ample opportunity to work out a format, Councilman Floyd, Mayor Young: Should we throw in any other things that we thought the delay would be beneficial for? Certainly. I know Dick to me that..he hopes this all the way around. Oldenburg has stressed is a give and take input Councilman Lloyd: Yes. I said it the night that we made a presen- tation. As I remember, there were five separate categories which could be served or used in this i hing. You are using only one. I still have to ask the question in regard 410 parking area, why you persist in not using this as an aid to what you are trying to do. Speaking only of myself; the rest of the councilmen have not commented on it. In my opinion and looking the whole thing over, I would have to say that the parking district would have tremendous benefit to your situation. I honestly don't understand why you haven't considered using that. City Council 2/5/73 Business Improvement Tax George Zartman: Councilman Lloyd: ofeorge Zartman: Page 2 How do you think it would be beneficial to us, Jim? I think it leaves doors open to further revenue on down the line to parking districts, and etc. To the City, not the Chamber. Councilman Lloyd: The City and Chamber are synonymous in this case since:yout_.will be doing the work. You will be handling the business license, etc., for the City and collecting the money, so that in turn you can help your own business community. And I am saying, as an adjunct to that, I see where there would be additional funds which would accrue in the development of business through this parking situation. Maybe I don't see clearly or maybe I am just greedy. I don't know which, but what ever it may be I stillfeel that you have left out a very major element. If indeed you never intend to use it, why strip yourself of this opportunity and close the door for ever more. I just don't understand it. Leif Ericson:. In speaking of closing the door, Jim, are you speaking of revenue collection? ,Councilman Lloyd: I am talking about the whole operation. In other words, there are five categories. You have selected one. Why not take all five. You were adamant about it... Am I .not correct on that? .Leif Ericson: I wouldn't say we were adamant. We felt that promotion of retail trade was the primary objective of the Chamber type of activity. I don't think it was particularly meant to exclude other areas. It depends what we all mean by the definition of promotional retail trade. Councilman Lloyd: I specifically ask that, Lee. I was told "NO" we don't want that. Dick Oldenburg: No. I don't think that is necessarily true. .Councilman Lloyd: It's your decision, I am just asking "Why"? Dick Oldenburg: As it is set up now, we did the principal. interest that we had. It had to do with the retailer on a City wide basis as opposed to an isolated locale. And so the approach was used to adopt it on the basis of that which we know for certain what we can deal with adequately and that which we are familiar with and that which we have carried on most of our activities. We could, however, use some of the other categories. We are taking on a great responsibility. We are going down a road that has never been traveled before and we want to do a good job. We felt we could do it best along the lines of a retail trade. There would have to be an amendment some time in the future to encompass the other activities. But again, we thought it important enough, to be successful we had to keep within a narrow complex. I think really that is why the approach was taken in that direction. :Councilman Lloyd: There is one other problem which has been 0 brought up and. ineeds to be reviewed, studied, and a formal presentation ought to be made and that is wlth'.,.regards to the law, in view of the fact, that this is a new thing that has never been made done before to the best of my knowledge elsewhere. There ought to be a proper legal opinion. This body could be faced in five or ten years hence with; "You guys are wrong because the court said such and such and so you have to pay it back dollar for dollar" I don't think that will happen. -2- City Council 2/5/73 Business Improvement Tax Page 3 Dick Oldenburg: I think we should approach what we want to talk about today and what we are really trying to do today, and that is to develop that responsibility. We are acting not as an executive.Board, but as an Advisory Committee and we are looking to many meetings before we come to a final program. It is up to us as the Advisory Council to direct procedures and work out a program. We report to you and we have to integrate ideas of yours and we (the two groups) will have to determine the implementation of the act as we see it. I vision a number of meetings in the next six months before we come to a program of work and a proposal for contract. But really, what we are trying to do today is kind of draw out that which we are talking about. What is it that you really want us to do? I think really today, as an Advisory Board, the'first.:_basic:-responsibil ty'is'to develop some sort of procedures and responsibility so we can get your input and the Councils inpu.t',before we can derive at a program. Quite honestly, what I would like to take back to subsequent.meetings,as far as the Advisory Board of the Chamber of Commerce, Iis-the:1input as to your view as an individual and your feelings about that which could be included or derived to be included within the limits of retail trade pormotion. And by the way, I mentioned about setting up a meeting and I called the first meeting of the Advisory Board last Monday night and we spent five hours. It°s.amazing how much time you can spend and we didn't get anywhere near where I felt we.should be. Like I said, I think the important thing, first, is to formalize a procedure as far as meetings, frequences, and generally what the Advisory Board requirements are between a Council and the Advisory Board. I understand you have another Advisory Committees, but I am not aware that my Board people know how they function. We want to establish today, the type of reporting, and the feeling what the reporting should be between the Advisory Board and the Council on a direct basis. Perhaps I look at the content as the procedures and responsibilities. Because going into the responsibilities, from that I would look at determining the scope by which we then can develop our ideas and to go the ,Yt��the:Bo d; ke recommend i01 what 41 rea�lr Mayor Young: It bothers me a little bit to come into a meeting, cold turkey, with nothing more than a request for the meeting, and we share common concern that the expenditure of this money be within the scope of the legislation. When we go beyond that scope we are exposing our- selves to class action suits and violating our particular rules of office. At least three of the councilmen, perhaps four are certainly not experts in the field of retail trade promotion. I am far from it and suspect Russ is far from it and I suspect that Mr. Shearer is far from it. I don't know about Ken in particular, but he is not exactly in retail sales. Jim is a professional in public relations and certainly would be the council expert as close as we come to having an expert. This program had originated with the Chamber. It was put to the Council and passed on a split vote. We don want to split votes but it seems to me that the Chamber should come in here with a proposed program for the use of this money as specific, -as it can be, and realizing that it must necessarily contain some generalities and with this proposed program before us I would want the City Attorney to review that program and give his opinion whether or not, this program is in conformity with the law. There is a phrase in there which is kind of catchy where the law can be construed. You never know what is limited or how many liberties to take and a court tells you if you are O.K. or are wrong. I frankly wish that someone right now, wouldC legally challenge this Ordinance so we could -have a court test. If it passed that test we would be in good shape. If it failed that test, at least we would know it before we had put any tax payers money on the line® I really wish it would happen. It happens as a matter of course, in the issuance of`cer.tain kinds of bonds by municipalities. There is a challenging legislation, and there is a court determination that this is a proper bond issue. I think it ought -3- City Council 2/5/73 Business Improvement Tax Page 4 to happen on this. I encouraged this to happen but no body wants to do it. I am in no position to do it. In the absence of that, we certainly want the City Attorney to approve the program expenditures of this money. So, I would say, first of all, the Chamber Committee presenting a formal program that it envisons. Then I would see the Council reviewing that and having a chance for each one to contribute as he sees fit, and then work it out •to the council's satisfaction and be reviewed by the City Attorney and approved. Then we would be in good shape. Dick Oldenburg: I certainly can't disagree that these items have to be accomplished. I think that looking at it as a business man I would be for a definite program and follow subsequently with budgetary allocations. You have to have a basic agreement and understanding of the latitude that perhaps we can approach a liberal definition of this act in light of our activities here in the City of West Covina. Rather than coming up with a formalized program, until we get your input, we didn't think we could reasonably expect to have the program developed. We felt it was important to have your input before we develop it and sit down item by item. You kind of have an overall input and an interpretation which I think would help us better in establishing a program of approach which I would feel is necessary to bring before the joint meeting before we talk about a direct expenditure allocation. At that point it is extremely important to get the concepts and our responsibility, and your thoughts help us too,'in coming up with an actual program of work which we will expect to be doing. Mayor Young: feel the Chamber has some expertise or I think it should be within the limits of the act. I have never been one to dispute the experts, because I at least a lot of experience. Councilman Chappell: I had a .plan presented to me by the Chamber of Commerce who came up basically with the idea. I like the idea aLnd I assume the Chamber had some plans to lmglemeat : the idea. I like the idea because of the decline in sales and tax position West Covina is now faced with. And this type of a plan, properly implemented, will turn that around and bring in new businesses. This will encourage the business in the Community to upgrade develop, promote and plan on a more City wide basis which I have advocated and many of you have heard it before on a generalized basis of selling West Covina rather then Eastland, the Plaza, or anything else, and do this with a real coordinated effort. I think that's the way the results will be accomplished. But for me to sit here and say, you do this and you do that, we are not the professionals in that sense of the word, and we don't have in mind what you had in mind when you came in to present the plans to us. I have given you what I thought you were talking about when you came in, and was most happy to see this was a way that with good effort, good team work, we could turn this situation around from the declining sales tax with this basic program. That was the reason for my vote. The fact that we had to do something to turn the declining sales tax revenue around and.make it go back up again. How you accomplish that, that's what you had asked to do. I also mentioned that you were going to have to raise some fiinds on the side so perhaps the law wouldn't let you spend some of the monies you are going to need to spend in the next year. You would have in the fire works show or what other efforts you are going to use to raise the money, a due structure. You • name it and you are going to have those funds, so they are going to be there so you don't have to worry about a challenge, a law suit or something like that about money being spent where it shouldn't be. These are the things I thought were already Laid out. Dick Oldenburg: Many ideas given within the Advisory No, that is why we asked for the six months, because. it.s like .I _say, the program can be very comprehensive. Board, are things that should be City Council 2/5/73 Business Improvement Tax Page 5 considered. So before we actually get down to the nuts and bolts we felt acting in this capacity again as the Advisory Board, that it -was important to get the procedural aspects of an Advisory Committee which we have not served on; so we don't know the relativeness, and how it places with different phases within the City Government. So we have to understand that, and any dditional input. The gathering I get from this is that we should go ahead with a program which we would believe to be acceptable. I thought it was very important, at least in the beginning to establish a"bas1c.responsibility and procedures. Not as far as the program, but as far as reporting and setting up the system and not the proposal at this time. Leif Ericson: Some of these tasks, you wouldn't tie in with promotional retail trade. To define these things, if you have any pet things that you would have liked to see the Chamber do in the past, and wish to see them do in the future. Now it should be raised and looked at in the context of this legislature. Maybe they apply or maybe they don't. If -you have no specific input at this time, that's fine too. Council.ma_n Chappell- There is one very important thing in my mind. That is to put the business committee back together,. � again. We do know there was some division of thought on this thing, or whatever you want to call them. People really went after this thing. They said it was going to be a lousy plan. Your first efforts should start out showing those people how wrong they are -and get them back in the fold. Because this thing won't work unless the whole City gets some sort of involvement in it. Whether it be small or large. Dick Oldenburg: Certainly, the program as it developes, and when we get close,.and the City Attorney has a chance to look at it legally, will provide that which we mutually agree on. We will have direction to proceed at least thefirst year. There are going to be a lot of meetings and a lot of consideration which may necessitate a change. This is just a start and you have to start from a certain base. We look at it as a learning experience for the.businessman as well as working with the City. Councilman'Ll.oyd- In the area of specifics, the first - thing that you are going to -have to do is to go into the retail development, and sales development organizations. These are Eastland and the new shopping center. They already have strong programs built up and they know exactly. what they want to do. They see themselves and the dollar you are going to be taking, as the dollars they could be well spending themselves with '(quote) "pro- fessionals leading the way". The Broadway, Penney's;, Bullocks, and all of these people have participated in any other areas where they know exactly what they want to do and they know how to bring the customer in as they see it and how it should be done, You will have to at least coordinate, and with a minimum of friction, the activities, of say, Eastland verses the new development redeveloped area. Eastland is going'to be tougher than blazes to coordinate, for the simple reason that they see a direct competition for the dollars there right now. They are concerned. What have you done is,a question I have to you? What have you done to allay the fears of Mary Hoskins at Eastland, if nothing else, in protection of her job? Because that is exactly what you are entering into, and that is the area she participates in. It doesn't affect me nearly because large corporations have .their own. Very seldom does someone come to me and say, O.K. will you do this. When we do it, we tend to come in hard, because we are only going to be there for two weeks and we can take the flack and .be gone. But she can't nor can the pros who work for the Presidents whb have all their little whims and desires, whether they are at Broadway, Penney's; or even Wells Fargo. The point is, if the President has decided not to do that or if the Pres- ident (decides-; on something he wants in Wells Fargo, its exactly the same thing with the Broadway, Penney's,.: Bullocks and the May Company, and whoever else may be in there. This I see is one of the primary things that you -5- City Council 2/5/73 Business Improvement Tax Page 6 people will be doing. You are going to provide the lubricant of that meshing of gears to assure the people of the May Company that.West Covina loves you just as much as Broadway, Penney's: and Bullocks. And to prove it, this is what we are doing. We are doing this and this and this. Dick Oldenburg: I want to ask as we go around, maybe this is what we are talking about. I am just wondering then as we go along, if your general interpretation is very narrow. Cduncflman. Lloyd: No, my general interpretation is simply this, Dick. I want you, in� some way, to provide a good culture for business which will generate the economic base that we need in this Community. Whether it is the bringing in of Tenney's or the Redevelopment of Penney"s, or bringing in Bullocks or an entirely new store, what ever that may be. And being mindful of the fact, we are in competition for those very same dollars -with Montclair, Fashion Square, or where ever it may be. As a businessman, you have to be mindful of that. We have to be mindful, for instance, of specific things. Right now we have a specific problem in the area of traffic flow as it relates to Vincent. Mr. Zimmerman will tell you, he and I, and some of his people had a meeting on that. .That is one of the things you can do. I don't mean for you to take away the legislative prerogative of one of the Councilmen. But I am very much concerned that we are ground to almost a halt down there at times. When you halt those people you kill the purchasing power that can come through those gates. It's as simple as that. If we don't come up with a solution, we are going to lose dollars. As we lose--: - spending sales dollars, we lose sales tax, and when we lose sales tax, this City has got a problem. And thats the problem, I as a Councilman, want solved. Now I want you to help me solve that. Now I am blunt enought to say to you; that if you don't bring a solution, don't bring me any problems. -I will go elsewhere for a solution. These are the things we face right now. Dick Oldenburg: And that is the kind of input I think is important right now for the development. Councilman Lloyd: If I knew the answers I would be autocratic and I won't do that. I am democratic many ways. Dick Oldenburg: Does anybody think thats an unfamiliar role of what the Chamber has to do? Councilman^Lloyd. Yes. I don't think the Chamber has performed adequately -at all in this role. I do not see the Chamber as having done a great job of bringing in business or really generating with an eye to the problems of this City. May I also say, that we have never q4i'$ n the Chamber the responsibility to do that by giving them the authority. We have now given you the authroity and we can now say if there is no performance, we can get unhappy about the performance. Leif Ericson: You are assigning either a greater • responsibility than we formally had of a new responsibility. Knowing what you want in that framework, has got to eventually end up in a budgetary consideration. We could be focusing our attention on some retail promotion thing and may not have the same impact but------o Councilman Lloyd: want to do this, and we say thats a But in all the things we have said, we are saying, you tell us where to go. You came to us and said, we great idea. Now you are coming back City Council 2/5/73 Business Improvement Tax Page 7 in and saying to us, "Now where do you want us to go"? Dick Oldenburg: No. �uncilman Lloyd: And thats what Ken said to you. He said that!s what I want to hear from you. Dick Oldenburg: Not at all. Gounc_ilman­ Lloyd: Then I misunderstood what you said, and I apologize. Dick Oldenburg: We are looking for more input as far as your general ideas and responsibilities. Its only from the combination of your thoughts in this direction, and ours, we then can develop it. I think it is important basically, to get an input from both sides. Mayor Young: I am willing to give input. I have had the firm impression up to now, that I would stand with Jim's comments as to what I expect. But I won't stand with Jim on some of his analysis on some of the activities. I :frankly haven't thought about it to much. You are apparently operating under a general type contract and as far as I am con- cerned,,doing a good job. I am willing to keep voting for that contract. And that°s how I come into this meeting. I come into this meeting really expecting something from you. The input is this, we have declared the whole City to be this district. The main thing I am concerned about is the. different shopping areas that are in the City; something like 9 to 12. We have little 7-11 stores stuck on corners here and there and everywhere else and we owe each and everyone of these areas something tangible and concrete from this. They are paying for it, and if it boils down to the emphasis of this town which is Eastland and the Plaza and that is going to be a great dis-service to the way this thing is set up. Councilman Nichols, I have a couple of concerns which I think are along the line of the type of input you are seeking or looking for. The first one follows quite closely with whats been said, although I would take some issue with some of the comments that have'beeri brought up. I think that, regarding the Chamber as a whole, the most critical thing we face right now is the fact that many many businessmen in the community feel, for whatever reason, justified or not, that the Chamber is an insular operation serving one or two key geographical areas and slighting or ignoring the people�..with; business interests beyond that area. I say right or wrong, that is a prominent feeling which probably is the source of most of the real bitter opposition and anger which pre -dated this proposal. So I would feel as has been said, its the most critical job the Chamber has in its new program. In fact, I think perhaps it should be the major thrust of your efforts initially, to come up with a program which comes closest to identify with the broadest possible number of businessmen in the community, sa that each thing you do, certainly in these initial stages, should -:maximize:' the number of people who are paying business license fees, will come to feel some identity with us. And I would fear for instance, a first major project Othe back up traffic studies for, Vincent off. -ramp. Because right away, ose same people are going to be saying exactly what they said before - there goes the money right into the same little corner of the City. So I would commend to the chamber and its proposals, with a great deal of con- sideration, that in this formative year, the most pronounced thrust of what you are doing will create an infinity on the broadest possible basis. I think if you can show some of those things in the first year or two this unity you need will start to return. If you fail in that image, it won't return, no'..: matter what you say or how many letters you write or anything else. IWM City Council 2/5/73 Business Improvement Tax Page 8 As to what your proposals might be, I don't know. But we certainly need to reach out to people who are not members of the Chamber. You need to communicate with them, you need to engage in a Promotion that will touch all of these people and let them know what you are doing so they may feel that in deed. That!s the first concern, the second one is, I am sure, very blunt, t it is something I sense and I need to say to you. I watch the Chamber"s rk for many years. I have read many many reports and have followed new programs such as the Head Quarters City concept from the beginning and I have always come away feeling a little less then fully honestly informed in terms of what really was being accomplished and what was accomplished. I have read reports that have been corporated achievements into programs that occured in•advance of the program and really did not relate to the program at all as an effort to justify a program. So as a Councilsnamt, I have always had a little bit of a feeling that there has been some inclination to postulate success in reports, whether that success really did come in the measure that the claim was. I sense that at different times, we could go over different reports over the years and demonstrate that very clearly. We could dem- onstrate some programs that were promised for large increases in Council support that really never got off of the ground. Its not the fault of any one man, perhaps it is the fault of the times, etc. Now that brings me to the point I want to make. I see as a fundamental area of difficulty in this entire operation, which ,vas one of the sources of my concern and opposition, that when you come with a program to your City government and you say we are the Chamber and you are, and you are© and this will be our proposal, and then you attempt to put on another hat and come back to the Council, saying, we are the Advisory Board and we are going to tell you what'..the Chamber is doing, whether it is working or whether it is not working, we are going to report to you and coordinate this activity. I see it as a very very difficult row to hoe. I see it as an extremely difficult path for a man with a tremendous commitment to a Chamber activity to have the capability of being equally objective in reading that and reporting back to the golden goose and saying, "Well, this is going sous,_ W e recommend to you that we go off in another direction." I see the potential of some good reports coming out in lieu of necessary self criticism at critical times. So you have taken upon yourselves, in my judgement, a very difficult road. A road on one hand says you are getting the money, and on the other, it says we are your advisors to tell you whether we are doing a good job. So my challenge to you gentle- men, is to see how well you can wear those two hats. How well you can get back into the Chamber and push this program, and how well you can come back here and sit around this table and say, "Well Councilmen, its not going too well,or this part we should junk, or this we should change, or we should do it in some other fashion". In other words, do it on the one side and keep us fully informed of the real nub of where you are going. Because for the first time in your history, gentlemen, the Chamber is using tax money for an activity and the Council can really get on the hot seat if things don't go well and are not in close harmony. So those are my areas of concern. On tie one hand, this matter that has been mentioned of reaching and trying to heal these wounds through effective and broad touch of ability. And secondly, through your role in being effective on both sides of the street that you .are going to be walking on. In conclusion, apparently your role as -an Advisory Board as the Ordinance has established it isn't exactly synonimous with your role as Chamber Officers. And for you to perform both functions, and to do it well, takes tall men and probably sleepless nights. Mayor Young: Is there anyone who has the idea, for example, if there is going to be a promotion of some kind, say any kind at involves putting up Christmas decorations over the freeway, or just anything, do these specific type things have to come into the City Council for approval before they are done? My concept has been that this money would be allocated to the Chamber of Commerce and spent .by the Chamber of Commerce according to a plan. It is the City Council's job to make the allocation. Except the City Council has its prerogative to over see and receive reports and be assured that money is being spent with the confines of the act itself. If you start getting us involved in specific things, City Council 2/5/73 Business Improvement Tax Page 9 there is no way in the world you are going to get five of us to agree on one specific promotion or promotional idea. Or even three of us to agree on it probably. The Advisory Boards advise is to turn this money over to commerce and let it be administered by them. And I ask the very question, what are they going to spend the money on? George Zartman: Let me make a few comments. Are we being recorded and will we get a copy of these minutes? Mayor Young: A recording is being made.v'.Whether or not there is transcribing, I don't know. The.question is, how good a transcription we get. I see George Zimmerman and -his City -Staff is taking notes. So we will have some kind of a summary. Whether or not it will be verbatim, I can't answer that question. George Zartman: The reason I tell you that, is we agree that this money is being turned over to the Chamber of Commerce to handle a pro- motion or a function for an entire year. And we have to know the wishes of this City as well as our wishes to promote this. True, it is going to take time to evaluate all, -these th ngs.:..and to- get al.1--the -bugs out. !.But,it -is going to take time. We want to get it started off right. Now any program that I have entered into as a businessman where we were setting up a committee or allocating funds, we had to first know what our program was and our -goals were. This is what we are attempting to establish now. I don't want you gentlemento.thirikthat we came into this meeting totally unprepared. We spent 5 hours the other night and many hours in nights be- fore that deciding the route to go. But we can have all the ideas in the world and put them on paper and come up here and have them kicked out completely. So to have a start we wanted to be sure to understand your feelings as to what you are expecting us to accomplish. We have to be an Advisory Committee. Under the laws I understand that we are wearing the same hat that you wear as a Redevelopment'Agency. We are an Advisory Committee.to.the Chamber of Commerce and then we take that hat off and put on the Executive Committee of the Chamber of Commerce who reports to the Board of Directors of the Chamber of Commerce. So, in effect, we are doing the same thing your doing to a degree. But we sat for 5 hours the other night as an Executive Committee and an Advisory Committee trying to form a program. (And we did have a pretty good outline for a program. And then the thought was, maybe this isn't what these fellows want.. So let's go in there and find out first what they are thinking, what they expect us to do. You can't sit there hours and hours telling us what you expect us to do from this allocation. But we do want your individual thoughts on it. And I understand this is the only way to get it. Also, I would like to have it firmly understood that through the years we have been reporting to the City Council for the monies we have received on this general funds allocation. I believe that is tax money too. Gouncilmah-Lloyd: Yes it is. George Zartman: So we have been receiving tax monies in the past. We have been giving you -programs —Maybe at the conclusion we summed them up. I believe we have given you quarterly reports, one time we gave semi-annual or annual reports. We have been all down the spectrum of that. Some Councilmen wanted them, others challenged them, and others didn't want them at all. So I don't know what the present formal reporting is. This is another thing we must 0now. How do you want us to account for these and in what report forms? Counc.ilmaq Lloyd: I think this has changed, George. And this is really the question you are asking. We really don't know in essence, what we want you to do, - any more than we know as a policy body what we want the Administrative Staff of the City to do. Granted, they have all these instructions that they have filled out and signed in,, -and its a lot more formalized. We don't go out and say, I want them to reduce crimes and I want them to make sure that the -9- City Council 2/5/73 Business Improvement Tax Page 10 Building of a house will meet certain specifications as safety and fire. I know those things. But I don't specifically go out and say, "Did you do that?" I assume they do their duty. And that's where you are. You are coming in with a program and make recommendations to use Some of which e will say, "That's a great idea".';; and some of which we will say, °'' I don't 'kerit :.But you.must g6 forward and do it. The difference in this rogram is, that before we gave you money and said, "O.K., you keep the Chamber running and you develop business You come in and say, "look at us, we brought in whatever it was". Say, Wickes, Bullocks or you came in and reported what yiM -- ' ,' . Siui. There was a listing of people and there was a fact sheet.:;, a ctually:'.d\ dCbfing:in and some of which came in as a rational process because they go through a whole survey situation and decided West Covina is what we want. George Strachan: We assume your still going to want that kind of input. Councilman Lloyd: We do, that's the function of this thing but you are going to formalize it more and instead -of saying, we are generally going to develop business, you are going to be very specific about it. You are going to say we are going to develop business this way and while Russ challenged me on Vincent, I give that as a question or as a statement to you as one item which you might have been involued.- in. Obviously, you are not going to be involved in it, because a..salfitioi3.is already on the way. But this will happen in the total of things. Do we need West Covina Parkway, and if we need West Covina Parkway, what must we do to inform the Homeowners that this must be done? And you are going to say, that's what we must do. Should we take a survey? You don't come to us and say, "Do kou guys want a survey?'.' Your going to come to us and we will.recommend a survey before we -step forward with this. The survey.should contain 300 responses on a structured situation which will be done in this pattern. Fine go do it. That's what they do in Personnel, that's what they :da in Engineering, that's what they do in the Fire Department. So that in my opinion, is the change of the roll that really exists. George Zartman: I am looking mainly, I know we all are, of the basic structure of this organization before we do anything. Are we looking at it once a year? Who are we going to report our ideas to? These are the things we are trying to lay out in the beginning. Councilman^; Lloyd: be the minimum. I would say, in starting you should meet at least every 30 days. I don''t know about the rest of the Council. This should CouncilmafiL Nichols: I think it would be unproductive of every- one's time, if every member of your Committee, and every member of this Council sit down in an hour or two meeting every month. I think it would be appropriate for the .Mayor and the Council to select one or two members as liaison for this type of task. And your organization do the same with two or three of your people; and you come once a month and bring salient input in and each Councilmen come back with Committee reports and report back Council and periodically, as we may all feel a need to come together, should do so. Dick Oldenburg: That's fine. That°s the kind of things we are talking about here tonight. Counci1mati�,.Nichols: Let me add one more thing. I don't think any of us on the Council want you people -10- City Council 2/5/73 Business Improvement Tax Page 11 (the Chamber) to come in and ask us per- mission to implement certain proposals. I don't think that we expect or .seek at any time for you fellows to come back as the Chamber of Commerce and say, this is what we propose to do with this new program. I think what we really have said, is we want you to decide what needs 0 o be done, and do it; and account to us for the success or failure f what you have done. That's what I am interested in. Dick Oldenburg: Thatos a direction. This is the kind of thing we are looking for. Mayor :Young: I totally agree with Russo. I am certainly not in the vision of any drastic change in the existing procedures that have developed over the years. I have been happy with them for two years. Voice: Well we are unfamilar with the Advisory Board's type of relationship. That is all. Councilman;...Nichols: The Ordinance does establish that. Mayor Young: Oh yes, its a different name for continuing activities. I certainly go along with Russ. .My central concern is what it says here. The act proposed to us, incidently, does concern me about the act itself. I think we are stressing it to the ultimate limit. We reach into the street and highways code which generally is involved with streets and highways parking, and that sort of thing. Leif Ericson: Some of the things we hope to do in the Chamber will be hopefully generated by other funds. It's the City that is identifiable in retail trade. Mayor Young: Does the Chamber plan to retain its dues structure? Dick Oldenburg: The important thing is in the beginning was to take this stuff on a logical basis. What we are trying to establish, first of all, is the development of the thoughts and input as to the general criteria of the program; develop the program in terms of activities or activity direction; allocate the anticipated budget; or make an evaluation of the cost to carry out those programs of a desired basis. Then we have to take a look at it and change hats and take a look at it as the Chamber of Commerce and carry out a lot of other activities which we expect to be ongoing. Now they are still going to have to be funded. And that is something we will be spending time on once we develop this important phase of the program. Basically, there is going to be some discussion about these things when we get to it. But we are expecting to continue the program which has'to be funded. So that can be self explanatory. Some resolution has to be made. But in establishing our formalized procedure like this, and as far as the timing, we think certainly once a month. Because we are going to have a lot of homework. The idea of initially proposing assigning one of the Councilmen or two to meet with us until we get a complete contract ready to go is what we are looking for. Sayor Young: We are running into a problem because we are dealing with a specialized area. We have a detailed area and the Councilmen are dealing with an overall basis. We are heavily burdened, as you know, for one of us at this table to commit another 6 hours a month is something else. I am resistive, this is why I want you to do a lot of homework. -11- City Council 2/5/73 Business Improvement Tax C,o;uncilnian Nichols: Councilman Lloyd: Page 12 I know we have to do it, thats all. There is no other way we can get around it. •Dick Oldenburg: During this development phase, I look to having frequent meetings. If the other night is any indication, we are going to be burning a lot of mid -night oil by the time we get down to the formal- ization and presentation of an actual contract for next year. Counci:l:mari,Nichols: We need to be informed. That would be the function. Dick Oldenburg: Now let°s say, as far as the timing, would you think it appropriate to have a formal meeting between the Council and the Chamber to take place once a month? In fact, have a date, if you would like one proposed for the next meeting which we hope to have some sort of a program at that time. Mayor Young: I would leave it to the rest of the Council; in my opinion, it should be on a as needed basis, rather than on a regular monthly meeting that we have to cook up an agenda for. Although I am sure there will.be plenty to be talked about with a liaison, which Jim Lloyd volunteers to serve in that capacity. Voice: Lets leave the judgement to Jim and his liaison, if whether there is a need for a meeting at any point of time. Dick Oldenburg: We thought, Mr. Mayor, not knowing again, what the requirements of an Advisory Council or Committee were to the Chamber that they required a meeting once a month. I think we are going to have more then that in the beginning, But again, I think that is one of the basic items. Mayor Young: I don't think Council needs a blow by blow up bringing on your development on plans that will go into effect July 1. Councih ani::Nichols: If you meet monthly in liaison with one or two Councilmen, Councilman Chappell said he would be interested in serving. So you got two good councilmen who are most knowledgeable on the Council. If you meet monthly with them and give them a run down of your progress of what you are doing at that point, then at the end of our council meeting the Council Committee reports that they can give us a synopsis of what they feel should be brought to the Council. If they fail to do that, they goofed, you haven't. They brought. up this point and it seems a little sticky. Maybe we better get another meeting going and sit down together. But as long as that liaison works well, and we get the flow back up to the rest of them. And you feel your communicating things you want to tell us through that method, I feel that is fine. *Mayor Young: I would urge this upon you that July 1, comes very rapidly and I would hope that by June l)things would be finalized, if not sooner. Dick Oldenburg: I think that our advanced planning in the meeting we had already had, that we will be prepared in advance so we won't have to have any crash critical meetings come dune before implementation. -12- City Council.' .2/5/73 Business Improvement Tax The.,men I saw Monday night are extremely thing work on the basis on which we will mutually for the benefit of the business 0ayor Young: well dedicated interpret it. community and Page 13 of making this Because it is the city. I appoint Councilmen Lloyd and Chappell as Council liaison either jointly or alternately to meet. Dick Oldenburg: I think it would be appropriate to discuss at this meeting, that in the five hours, there were two decisions agreed upon which would be the direction the Advisory Council would take. That was one of the organizations we envision -as it now stands to implement the business improvement act of what we call a retail trade division which will encompus all the act- ivities of the program we developed within that. And then switching hats, in the Chamber we will have set up as it looks right now, a secondary, which would be our public affairs department, which would operate under separate .aus'i.ces under the Chamber and funding would come from other sources. The second significant thing, once we got the organization, we have talked about, and generally concede upon although action has to be approved upon later, is that once we approach the business improvement act and its implementation with an allocation of cost on a functional basis so that knowing that you are not a businessman,'that,come the end of the quarter, end of the year, when we have to make an accounting. Some of the things Russ referred". to may be happening or may not be happening. I think we are going to be hopefully in a better position as businessmen to X number of hours or X number of dollars were spent in this direction and carry out the program on a functional cost allocation. Counci.lm'an. Nichols: We can say we really did have a happening. George Zartman: Yes. And this is what it cost to make it happen. Dick Oldenburg: Its not so much that we felt we haven't accomplished this in the past at all. I don't think we ever have to be ashamed at .least during the time that I have been here, of the programs we have maintained. I am going on the basis of the,overall development of the Community. But even in the back of my mind and others in the Executive Committee, there has always been, "Now,really, how much has this cost us"? For instance, just the other night ---- by the way, another point I want to bring up, -regarding our Advisory Board; I have also asked as a task force on our Advisory Committee, four retailers serving in addition, in case we are not broad minded enough or maybe we are missing a point to inter- ject. So we have four other members of the Chamber retailers helping as a task force to supplement our Advisory7-Council. Mayor Young: I would be very happy to see you reach out geographically------- DickOldenburg: On the task force, we have George Lava from Eastland, we have Gordon Paulson from the Plaza, and we have Phil Wax and Harvey Krieger. This is part of the program, but getting back to the cost of things, its amazing the amount of hours that are spent by the contributor of other people cting on the Board, outside of their working hours on these things. Take n example, back during the fire -,works show which generated X dollars and X expenses. But you look beyond the scenes and all the free labor and cost that were accrued and the time that was put. in. You might total those things up and find that on a functional cost allocation bases you didn't make any money at all. This is like a PTA pot luck. Its cost everybody. -13- City Council 2/5/73 Business Improvement Tax Page 14 Dick Oldenburg: So I think we are going at it in the right direction and we sincerely mean to develop a kind of program which is appropriate for the directional ontake for this first year. And certainly in the future years there are going to be changes. Maybe we want to in- Wrporate some of these other things. But I think it gives us a base to art with; one which I think -we can control for the maximum obtaining results at least for the next year. .Counciilmari;..NichoIs: I don't want you going away feeling that those comments were in relation to jobs done or efforts, commitment or work of the Chamber. It was cstrictayy related to a natural human. :incliraf o'n that if things don't work out to well, and you are a little -nervous about it some times, the tendency is to bring that out a little to much and try to paint a better picture. I think in times that it becomes even more important that the Council and the Chamber together, know where we are dropping the ball. Dick Oldenburg: I think after we get through this first year you can be rest assured the sub- stance of the reporting and'.the recommendations will be based upon things that have happened or not happened. And the recommendations in the following years will go in the same direction. Co.unciilmai � Nichols: There never even has ever been any dishonesty. What you have is a natural human thing where you have men over a period of 8 or 10 years coming on a Board, going off of a Board izi the Chamber. You will have two or three managers that work in here. George comes in and he sees historical data of certain activities or certain elements or programs. He accepts that. It becomes a matter of historical fact where it may not have been. So these things kind of grow and happen. But I personally am:encouraged with the spirit with which you fellows are taking upon this responsibility -and the attitude with which you expressed. All I can say is go with it. Dick Oldenburg: Is there any other member of the Committee that wants to say anything at this time? George Strachan: There has been one primary comment that we did get a lot of direction as far as the scope of the activities are concerned. I think this will be a great help in finalizing the program. The only other think I am concerned about is representation from outlying areas. And any- thing we do must finally -be approved by the.Board of Directors and we do have representation from other areas of the City. ,Councilman Lloyd: I have one more question. Since you have obviously gone beyond that, I am concerned, as I have been for many years about Sister City, and I was wondering if there were any comments that you might have or terminology would be since it was dumped in the laps of the Chamber. I am very much concerned about it® I still have the same fears I had before. I really don't see a visable program and I- have had no opportunity to"part- icipatel; other than I get a call saying the Mayor is in town and we have to 0o to lunch. So I go to lunch. Bob weait,.to breakfast with him, and then e is gone. We don't know what is going on. While I dearly love to be taken to lunch by Honeywell, I frankly feel that at the thought of losing a lunch, I have other things to do than to be called at the spur of the moment and say we must do these things because we must appear as good neighbors'. In deed we should. I think tha&s-another one of these programs that has got to be lifted off of the ground. Maybe we could just flat out and say, "Here is one City that couldn.'t make it work. ?, } �tiiGt Ls 11 /I rCfV dry k..d x 4,r.,; ( `3 f9h• ,.yi . .^ 1, •0 .. L S �..L a., :.�1Cr (F i tY11l,C�,', U c1`C C`l t`ll'Yl�°t.CS'�f}ll r G xAVi' City Council 2/5/73 Business Improvement Tax -Page 15 Dick Oldenburg: Heee is something, if you.are talking about that. My first thought would be here as an Advisory Board. That is beyond the scope we are trying to ascertain tonight. It still may be a function of th& Chapter, but beyond the scope of this. ecdunc*41man"Lloyd: I don't care to pursue.. it. Dick Oldenburg: Howeverlwe are going to have a discussion 1 with a few people tomorrow morning regarding this particular matter. Mayor Young: Gentlemen, is there anything else pressing in terms of our subjettimatter? ADJOURNMENT vs is -15-