07-26-1972 - Regular Meeting - Minutesi9 r
MINUTES OF THE,ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
CITY OF WEST COVINA, CALIFORNIA
JULY 26, 1972.
The adjourned regular meeting of the Council was called to order at
7:33 P.M., in the West' Covina Council Chambers by.Mayor Robert Young.
The Pledge of Allegiance was given.
ROLL CALL
Present: Mayor Young; Councilmen: Shearer, Nichols, Lloyd,
Chappell
Others Present: George Aiassa, City Manager
Lela Preston, City Clerk
George Wakefield, City Attorney
Leonard Eliot, Controller
Richard Munsell, Planning Director
Jeff Butzlaff, Administrative Analyst, Jr.,
Ray Silver, Administrative Analyst, Jr.
George Zimmerman, Public Services Director
Jeff Schenkel, Staff Reporter - SGVD Tribune
Mayor Young: We have something of an. unusual sized audience thi.s
evening and as I said Monday night I wish we had a'
comparable audience all the time, but we are glad you
are here this evening.
The purpose of this meeting is to receive from the
City Manager the presentation of the proposed Operating Budget for
•1972-'73, the proposed Capital Improvement Program, and I am under the. impression. there will be some discussion of salary adjustments in the.
,course of this presentation. Thereafter the floor will be open for:,
comments from the public.
Mr. Aiassa: Mr. Mayor, I will have our City Controller, Mr. Eliot,
give a presentation of 'the material presented to the
Council on July 24th, which is a supplementary reduction
to the budget reviewed previously by Council.
PRESENTATION OF Mayor Young: The City Council has spent manly,
.1972-73 OPERATING many hours in public sessions
BUDGET and PROPOSED reviewing matters which are being
CAPITAL,IMPROVEMENT. presented here this evening in this formal fashion.
BUDGET So what we do receive will be somewhat in a summary
fashion, I am sure.
Mr. Eliot: Yes, that is quite right, Mr. Mayor and City Council-
men. We did present a budget earlier to you for the
1972-'73 fiscal year that included both Operating
and Capital programs totalling 7.8 million dollars. After presentati.on.of
that budget. to your body,, staff was instructed to take another look to.see
where additional cuts. could be made. We'have done so and presented. -:a*..:
report to.Council_delineating some $877,271 in additional cuts in Dep*art-
mental Operating Budgets. We have also re-examined forecasts of revenue
.for the coming year, being that this is much :later than when first pz.epared
-the budget we are in a position to evaluate revenues and based on updated
information we have revised our estimate of revenues b $61 880 maki.ri
Y g a
total revision in' the budget deficit of $149,151, still leaving .a deficit
funding in', the budget of $298, 981.
We have also presented to you two alternates for
financing this budget deficit, if the Council wishes to proceed with t'he
budget as:is presently constituted.. The first source of revenue would
be an increase in the Business License Fees charged within our
community.:based on the number of emplo,yees,, as it presently is, but
raising the.fee per employee by either $2.50 from $5.00 to $7.50 ors
1 1W
CITY COUNCIL Page Two
PRESENTATION OF 1972-173 BUDGET 7/26/72
raising from $5.00 to the $10.00 fee. The first alternate would raise
$26,491; the second alternate $41,951. The remaining balance to be
funded would be recommended through an increase in the property tax rate.
First alternate would leave an 18.5e increase in the property tax rate;
second alternate would leave a 17.788e increase on the property tax levy
within the City of West Covina.
In our first presentation we did state the increase
this year over last year's budget was occasioned by several items,.
none of which were an increased level of service. There is no increase
in the level of service, no increase of staffing; in fact in our second
cut there was an elimination of two positions. There has been an
increase.in the budget: 1 - from the institution of the PEP program:
which adds some $200,000 to the budget but does not contribute to our
deficit because it is a fully Federally funded program. Additionally
the budget contains some $230,000 as a salary reserve as a possible..'.
increase in wages for employees. Additionally, beyond that, we have.
increased our allocation for tertiary street improvements by $80,000..
This does not effect our General Fund deficit. This is fully funde.d'by
Gas Taxes and is not expendable but merely remains in our Gas Tax Surplus
Account. The Capital Improvement budget increased by some $100,000.,.f'rom
last year caused by $150,000 mostly due to undergrounding of lights..:along
the freeway. Again this is coming from the Street Lighting Districts
and not affecting our General Fund. Whether it were or were not in the
budget it would not effect the General Fund Budget, which is the item
we are trying to fund here tonight.
Mr. Mayor, I believe in synopsis that brings u,s:
• up to date on the budget.
Mayor Young: Mr. Eliot - you covered Items a and b on the ag.e_nda?
Mr. Eliot: Yes, Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Young: Any discussion or questions from Council?
Councilman Chappell: A one cent raise is how much?
Mr. Eliot: A one cent raise is $14,450. Our assessed evaluation
for the coming yearawe believe will be $144,500,'0'00.
Mayor Young: If it is the pleasure of the Council we will proceed
with the public hearing at this point? (Council
agreed.) At this time I will declare the floor.
open for, those of you who wish to address the Council regarding any,
subject relating to the budget and the proposed capital improvement
program. The floor is open for your comments respecting salary adjust-
ments and any other items. (Explained the procedure to be followed:.)':
Richard H. Castle, Jr., Here on behalf of the firemen. As the
Business Representative Council'is aware the W.C. Fire Fighters,
Public Employees' Union have retained Public Employees' Union
L,oca.l 986, International as counsel to serve on their behalf
Brotherhood of Teamsters' relative to the impasse they have reached.
First, I would like to make a brief statement ori,
the 'Teamsters' goals and objectives and in particular my capacity as
representative.. The Teamsters are here because the firefighters of
West Covina have reached an impasse in the discussions between the
city administration and the firefighters. My comments this evening
-
are not directed to the City Council but`. to the City Administration,
namely, the representatives of the City in the meet and confer process..
Mayor Young: Mr. Castle, we would prefer the comments directed
to Council,this is the:time and place for Council-.
action. If they do rub off. on City Administration
then so be it.
r
2
s s W ,. ` ... „ e
CITY COUNCIL Page Three
PRESENTATION OF 1972-173 BUDGET 7/26/72
Mr. Castle: All right then my comments will be directed to
City Council. I would like to begin by showing
the Council or perhaps enlightening the Council
on what transpired in previous years in respect to the firefighters,
•Let's bring this up-to-date and find'out what has occurred right now.
In 1970 there was a 3�% to 4% raise issued to the firefighters. Between
July 1 and January 1, 1971, there was no raise whatsoever issued to the
firefighters. However, on January 1, 1971, as a result of a 10 City
Survey that the City provided during the meet and confer process they
received another 2.5% raise. This is between July and January, 197.1:.
First a 3� to 4% and then a 2.5%. So we find total raises of 62,%.
Now let's move from January 1971 and see what has transpired. We f_i,nd
from January 1971 until January 1972, no raise whatsoever. Now we .find
that the City has taken the position through their representatives that
during this period of time the City has in some manner incurred a cost
for a 56 hour work week. We find, however, and this was presented.to,
the city representatives at the meet and confer process, that a 56.hour
worl; week does not cost the City a nickel. For the entire term of 1970
to 171 there is not one cent incurred by this city. We find for
example that the minimum manning policy exists within the firefighters,
which means there is no additional man brought on duty for the purpose
of handling vacations. We find vacations under the 56 hour work week,
are 'rotated throughout the year, which means you don't have the problem
of all firefighters wanting to go on vacation during the summer montYs
as existed in previous years. This is not a cost to the City. We find
the position taken by the City for some reason is that the 56 hour �aork
week is a direct cost to the city budget, This is an error. It might
be a consideration for the pay board, it is not a consideration for...the
City in, terms of money out of pocket.
• So now let's move from that one year period of_'1.:.,
time and attempt to see what is happening now. We find now that
contrary, to a substantial number of years of a policy within the city:.
the city has taken the position this last session - 1972 - that there.:_
shall. not. be a City Survey made to be used by the City of West Covina.
for purposes of determining parity with the West Covina Firefighters.;,.'.
We find, however, as early as 1967 the city had retained an outside..
consultant for the purpose of preparing City Surveys which ranged frgm
7 to 10 cities, which the city steadfastly expressed as representing
the true,, 'correct and most objective, manner in which we can determine
what the. proper salaries are. But we:find in this last session - 1972 the City has arbitrarily determined that this year, surveys just are'n''t
appropriate. We find that very peculiar in view of the public statements
made by the City Councilmen, I believe it was the Honorable Mayor, I
believe it was the City Manager's recent statement that the City
always wanted its firefighters to remain in the top third of the
cities surveyed, which has been eliminated. We find that very peculiar.
Now I would like tO add one point I overlooked."
In January of 1971 in addition to the' -percentage raise I indicated,.,.;':
there were two other benefits that were graciously granted by the City.
Council.. ,One, pertaining to the resident'requirement, a direct bene.�a°t
to the :firefighters and a direct cost to the City. I don't understand
how that,could be a cost. There is no cost whatsoever in establishing.
a residence provision.
And in addition the Acting Position questio
n, which
I am sure we are.all aware of - whether or not firefighters should be;'
compensated for Acting Positions. We are all aware that the 8th shift:
provision.that was provided is never .applied simply because firefiglitbrs
will either be removed from the Acting Position before the 8th shift.so
they are no longer in a position to acquire the Acting Position pay.:,5o
there is no cost. I wanted to throw that in to advise Council what :they
granted the firefighters during the 1971 period.
3 -
s 1W 1W
u
•
CITY COUNCIL
PRESENTATION OF 1972-73 BUDGET
Page Four
7/26/72
You know we find a very strong inconsistency
here in terms of the City's activities. Its'redevelopment project
Up until this' evening, when I was in Montebello I commented to that
City Council that they had the most beautiful Civic Center I had ever
seen for ,a City that didn't have any money - this is unbelievable!
Mayor Young: I don't know, Mr. Castle, if the applause is for
the Council putting this up or for you pointing it
out.
Mr. Castle:
And I understand the City has some problems over.
the substantial money it spent and the manner:it
spent the money in.terms of the two bond issues_
which were defeated
by the public.
Councilman Nichols:
Mr. Mayor, a point of -order. I don't think the
judicious wisdom of this Council in the past or
present is an issue here tonight.
Mr. Castle:
No, I do not intend to infer any impropriety,.that
is not the point.
Mayor Young:
Mr. Castle, would you confine your remarks to the
issue - we don't intend to tear the building down
and it does have. to be paid for, so if you can*.....
keep that in mind and just move right along.
Mr. Castle: What I think is of greatest concern to the
firefighters is that there is a definite pattern
•in this City to spend excess money in its
redevelopment projects but when it comes time..for wage increases we.:...
don't find any money. Now in the earlier meet and confer sessions :the
firefighters wanted a 10 City Survey .which has been the city's policy
since 1967, so that is not unreasonable.a But when they looked at thi
10 City Survey this past session they found they were number 10 in
terms of wages. Number 10 out of the 10 cities used by the City for,
many years in the past. That is significant, because it showed why:.,
the City had decided not to use the survey this time. Now I wanted to
movc-� to a pattern that we see with the firefighters with the other
employee groups. No employee group negotiates only in terms of what:::,
ot:he:r employee groups receive or have received, but it is our under-...
standing we look to another safety group which certainly has
responsibilities somewhat consistent with firefighters, and we find
as of ,July 1, 1972, they received a substantial package in the terms
of the City Administrators but that the Council rejected that package..
We find the timing of that rejection directly related to statements'
made in .the meet and confer sessions.
Mayor Young: Mr. Castle, I don't mean to be rude or anything'
but I would like to understand what you are saying,
I don't quite follow you on the 71-72 group
what- employee group are you referring to and what package?
Mr. Cast] 'e: I am referring to the Police Department and the.7.5
incr.ese,,the longevity pay, the 3 hour minimum court time, the
accrued sick leave provision, increased clothing allowance provision..
Mayor Young: That hasn't been acted on as yet. You are going
on the theory it will be - right?
Mr. Castle: No, not quite that theory, but what I am develo"j.ng
here is that the firefighters through their
representatives here reached a difficult time in
the.i.r meetand confer process sometime back and I am going to lay it
to you the way it happened. Their attorney was Mr. Andrews, now they
were .reaching some difficulty in arriving at an agreement and
Mr. Andrews in
qica�eq at that time that we -hope the City will consid'
r
4 -
�. MW MW
s
CITY COUNCIL
PRESENTATION OF 1972-73 BUDGET
Page Five
7/26/72
the proposals of the firefighters otherwise we might have a professional
negotiator at our meetings, to wit: the Teamsters. At the very next
session, after that comment, the City came up immediately with a
proposal which set up, No. 1 - a meeting procedure whereby the
•Firemen's Association could meet at their stations; No. 2 - trade
shifts for educational purposes; No. 3 - a 10/ across the board
increase for firemen and engineers, 15% increase for Fire Captains
and z/ July 1, 1973. Now that is a substantial increase but that was
for a 2 year contract. The City immediately came back with the fact
they would discuss the Widow's Plan in the event the CHP Plan was not
effected by July 1, 1973. In addition, they included that on July 1,
1973, the City would consider a cost of living increase for the period
of November'72 to April 173 to a maximum limit of 21-2/. Which means
the City Administrators had taken the position that they would incur a
12� maximum increase for a 2 year package .or over 6/ per year for
firemen and fire engineers, and a lV-2 package maximum for Fire
Captains that the City would consider. At the same meeting the
representatives for firefighters asked - why a 2 year package;
answer - we want to buy peace for this City for 2 years. The firemen
countered to that proposal and asked for, a 7%/ increase across the.
board. And that is what we propose right now for a one year package.
By this time the Teamsters were actively involved
with the West Covina firefighters, in fact they had voted unanimously:
to become teamster members, so the Cty's immediate position, a counter-
Proposal, we will give the firefighters 'a 3/ increase for firemen and
fire engineers and 5/ for fire captains, which is far out of line eV.en
with the 2 year proposal they had made originally. What does this show?
It shows a lack of good faith. It shows that you wanted to buy peace.
•When I think in terms of peace I look at all these people out here ,and
think - my God - these are 3 employee groups. If you had one group.here
maybe you -,have a justification, maybe there is something wrong with .that
group, but when you have 3 employee groups out here there is something
wrong with the administration. There has to be, because the other
employee groups have not been able to utilize surveys either.
Before I forget, be sure to look at the equipment
of the firefighters. You will find, for example, that there is some.:::
neglect i.n ghat area too which shows ,a pattern along with the
redevelopment, along with the lack of good faith. You will find they.'
are operating with a 1961 truck. One truck in particular, that very.:._.;
recently was trying to go up a hill to fight a fire and a bunch of
little kids were running along and beat them to it up the hill and put
it out. That is the truth.
Mayor Young: We will consider that last applause for the little
kids.
Councilman Chappell: And Mr. Mayor, we always had a good youth prog;r.am
in our community!
Councilman Shearer: Is it in order to ask questions of the witness*'n'
Mayor Young: What is the consensus of the Council, I have no:;
particular feeling on it.
Councilma.,,,Chappell: We might forget if we don't ask as we go along,,*.,.'.'.:,.'
We are going to hear from 3 groups, I am sure . ,..-
If we don't take extensive notes toe might forge,t.,.,
some of the questions. (Councilmen agx'Aed.)
Councilman Shearer: I have two questions of Mr. Castle. Mr. Castle,.
did I understand you correctly to say it was your
impression this year for some unknown reason the;
10 City Survey was dropped?
Mr. Castle'. That is correct. i
- .5 -
e 1W 1 1W e
CITY COUNCIL Page Six
PRESENTATION OF 1972-173 BUDGET 7/26/72
Councilman Shearer: I believe if you check the record it was about
April, 1971, or prior to last year's salary con-
sideration that the City Council voted 5 to 0
officially to drop the policy of the 10 City Survey. Secondly, you
• mentioned 1961 fire truck - are there any others than 1961 in the
Department? The impression you left is that all the equipment is of
1961 vintage.
Mr. Castle: No. Now that I have a little more time I will go
into that a little deeper. You have in Engine...
#4 a 1951 fire truck; #5 a 1951 truck; #2, I believe
has one below the age I gave you -_so we find in Engine 4 and 5 you
have early 1950 vintage ....
Councilman Shearer: Are there any other fire trucks in the City?
Mr. Castle: Certainly.
Councilman Shearer: Since you have given the ages of the early ones:
will you continue on and give the ages of the.others?
Because I don't know this myself.
Mr. Castle: Yes, I will. In fact there is one fire truck which
is at Engine #4 - a new station that was developed -
in fact they have two trucks they utilize on
occasion. There is a pick-up truck manned by 2 firemen, a new one'too
and in the event that pick-up truck is utilized at another station.
there is a reserve truck brought in
Councilman Shearer:
Mr. Mayor, I have a feeling that Mr. Castle is
trying to play games with me, which is fine. The
point I was trying to make is that the City does
have newer equipment than 1961. Granted they also have older equipment.
He i.s creating the
impression that all fire trucks in West Covina were
1961 or older. We
are in the process now of buying a new truck, a:._,
pumper truck, a Snorkel
- so the fact of the matter is not all fire.
trucks are older than
1961.
Mr. Castle:
That is right.
Mayor Young:
Mr. Castle, have you looked into the Underwriting
rates for the City of West Covina?
Mr.. Castle:
No.
Mayor Young:
You don't know whether they show a serious
deficiency in equipment or not as far as under-
writing rates are concerned?
Mr.. Castle:
That is what we are looking into you know because
we think there is a lack of knowledge on the pi;rt
of the underwriters.
Mayor Young:
Underwriting rates would have some bearing on
some one's opinion as to the up-to-date or modern
condition of equipment
- would you concede that
point?
Mr. Castle:
It would, if the information conveyed was
accurate and recent.
Mayor Young:
You feel they don't make inspections themselves,
they simply receive information?
Mr. Castle:
I am aware they do make inspections, but I am
also aware, for example, that most inspections
ire superficial and','ather routine, it is
- 6 -
•
0
CITY COUNCIL
PRESENTATION OF 1972-173 BUDGET
Page Seven
7/26/72
unfortunate, but sometimes it takes some prodding to have them
develop a more intensive inspection.
Mayor Young: For instance if within the last year they reduced
rates for the City of West Covina this may indi-
cate just a superficial inspection on their part?
Mr. Castle: Oh yes. Many factors involved, no question about it.
Councilman Lloyd: Mr. Castle, the point that I would like to make,
of course, is that in 1971 or 1970 the shift frQm
social security'to State occurred? Mr. Aiassa,.,.�
what year was it?
Mr. Eliot: April of 1970.
Councilman Lloyd: Were you aware of the fact this City Council actually
went out on a limb to make the shift from social
security to the State, certainly with factors
pointed out by the administrators of the City that there might be some
serious 'financial difficulties for the City if we did this?
Mr. Castle:
Yes, I am aware of the facts.
Councilman Lloyd: What I am trying to point out is this Council has
been responsive not only to the firemen but to .all
the employees in the.City. I think you will find
not only ,this Council but Councils in the past have been attuned as, *much
as they can to the employees. We are proud of them and we are proud :to
have participated in this thing too.
Mr. Castle:
May I comment? I think the primary consideration
z.
is the absence of the surveys used for so many:.:_ .
years at a time when the City......
Councilman Lloyd:
May I interrupt? You heard the statement the
surveys were dropped in the Spring of 1971? In.'':
other words we recognized at that time that the
criteria which we
set and used for a period of 4 years simply would riot
be applicable. One
of the problems we faced in this, to answer your,
question, is the
fact that some of these survey cities were not on. the
periphery of West
Covina, which we thought they ought to be.
Mr. Castle:
a
Is it correct that Martin Associates were
consulted after the period you are talking
about and they provided a survey and when the
City became aware
of that survey and the'substantial increase the
firefighters could justify with that survey the City withdrew that
survey immediately?
Councilman Lloyd:
I don't know the answer to that. Maybe the
City Manager will answer.
Mr. Aiassa: For Mr. Castle's benefit, being he is rather
new in representing the firefighters Associa.tion.�
we have been negotiating with Mr. Andrews, the
attorney,,on a two year contract, and it seems amazing how much he has.
gathered so quickly and I would like for the public record his state
ment referred to'the Pacific Board of Underwriters - that they so
randomly rate a City. We dropped from a.class 5 to a clas's 4 and
every truck was inspected. Also, I want to inform Mr. Castle, we
just looked at a new truck for the City which costs about $75,000.
It is being built and is about ready for delivery.
With regard to Mr. Castle's question - these were.
job classifications, the analysis was made more as a check for the
entire city employees and was requested by the Personnel Board.
- 7 _
CITY COUNCIL Page Eight
PRESENTATION OF 1972-73 BUDGET 7/26/72
Councilman Nichols: Mr. Mayor, I think we are in danger of getting
into a situation this evening where individuals
are going to be debating and rebutting other
individuals and I think no one can win that sort of contest. As I
envisioned our role tonight, it is to ask questions and answer with
• fact but not bait the Council, the Staff, or the audience. I would
hope we can go ahead and hear the testimony being offered and absorb
it and make notes as we see fit and clarify questions with fact that
may arise such as the one about the age of fire equipment and move..o_n_
with the evening. Otherwise we will be here till midnight and
everyone will say "did I do better Dad?"
Mr. Castle: One further comment, Mr. Mayor. I think we all
know the mess the City was placed in with its'.
capital redevelopment program. We all know that.
It is the firm position of the firefighters and perhaps other groups,
that it is the Council's problem now - since you created the mess -.:,and
give these men a good day's pay for a good day's work. That's
Mayor Young: I was wondering -as a matter of orderly procedure
if there are others who wish to speak to the issue
of the Fire Department, perhaps we could hear this
testimony at this point and then go on Association by Association.
(Council agreed.)
Fireman Kaufman I would like to clarify first that 22 years
524 South Meadow Rd., ago I decided to be a fireman and I never
West Covina changed my mind. I am dedicated to this
profession. I was offered a job outside,_..
of the fire profession 6 months ago for $75,000 and I turned it down.
because.no matter what I do I will be a fireman. There is nothing else
I will do,unless..I am injured on the job�or disabled. Now I have two
letters here and a telegram I received from San Diego, Ventura City
and Ventura County, offering me jobs at substantial wages higher than'.,
West Covina can pay, but I turned them down because I felt that in due
time the. City will get around to paying the firemen what I feel a
professional fireman is worthy of. A fireman, as I, am sure you are :aware,
is injured twice as many times on the job as any one police officer:.
And there are four firemen killed in the line of duty to one police.
officer. Now I don't want you to get me'wrong, I am not anti -law
enforcement, I am pro -law enforcement, ``I don't believe in violence but
I do bel}e_ve the firemen should receivel the wages they have coming.
I am a taxpayerlof this City, I am a very loyal
taxpayer. When my wife goes shopping, I say "make sure you stay in
the City'and give the City the revenue." I am a firm believer of this.
We should live in the City because I am a city employee. That is how I
feel. Maybe my colleagues feel differently about this.
The morale factor - I have never in the last four'
years seen men's morale, and I am talking about the firemen I work
with, in such rotten shape. I don't use cuss words so I will just Stay
they have gone to "pot" - their attitudes. I think it is well aware
that the"Covina Fire Department is making;$90. a month more than we..,::,
are and they are half the size of our Fire Department and since we have
dropped from a Class 5 to a Class 4 City - we worked hard to get that.
Class 4 and that is a saving in the fire insurance rates for all our•
businessmen. I am pro -city for sticking together but I also feel t11c.rP_
is a time in a man's life when he must stand up for what he feels is-'-
right. Nobody told me to get up here. I did it on my own because Tj.::.
am a concerned citizen and a concerned firefighter. I don't want to"
go to another City, or accept a job elsewhere if the wages here can.be,
acceptable:_to the firefighters. I hope you realize I do this in
good faith, I am not a radical. I was a conscientious objector in the
service,`I::believe in saving people, not killing people. Thank you.
8 -
CITY COUNCIL
PRESENTATION OF 1.972-173 BUDGET
Page Nine
7/26/72
Charles.Bahn I echo many of the comments that Dave made.
President I too am not here to point a finger at any
W.C. Firemen's Assoc. individual this evening. I may not be .as
eloquent as some speakers you will hear
• this evening but I do have an earnest desire in my heart to work things
out in,this City. I feel that many of the men, in fact most of the men
I know of, agreed with the step we have recently taken as indicated by
the paper, and I felt very good about being called a "young buck". I
really don't consider. myself one, I am 38 years old, but if Mr. Aiassa
does, I appreciate the comment. I do feel that I want the Council to
know the vote in the Fire Department was 100/ for the action we took,
This was a unified vote.
What I want to point out tonight is that the Fire
Department is in dread straits right now. I am not saying who is to
blame, S think if you gentlemen are willing you have --the power and
authority to find out what is the problem. All we are interested in.-
is West Covina, we are here, I am 38 years old, too old now to go any
place else. This is my life's job. I will retire from the City of.:..
West Covina. I have a little over 10 years here now. I have
represented the firemen, as President of the Association, 3 or 4 years
now and I have been up here at various times. I too am not a radical
but I also feel the time has come for the employees to stand up and be
counted: I feel.we are getting a bum rap. I feel the issues and
advertisements that appear in the newspapers indicate - and I can speak
now as f,ar.as all the employees of the City are concerned because L...
have worked with many of them in various fields - you have'a
tremendous group of individuals in this City, you get every bit of
your dollars worth that you pay out. Most all Departments are
running shorthanded. If you want to check into the facts they are
avail.able,. They are working probably more than most city employees
in the State of California and working with less people and inferior
equipment.
I don't want to,give the impression that all ol4r
Fire Department equipment is falling apart. We have some very good -
equipment. The point is we have some very bad equipment as well.
This cqui.pment should be righted.. There is a matter of priorities
involved with equipment needs. down to a certain level. If you don'.: ..
believe, m*e l suggest you go down and' talk to the engineers and
capt.ai.ns who are responsible for this equipment when they go out on.a
call. One of these days some of this equipment is going to break down
and the City is going to be financially liable due to the fact the
equipment is proven to be faulty. So what we are saying is some of,the
equipment.is faulty. We did have the Underwriters come into the
City, we.have a fairly new Snorkel Truck, normally we carry one man
and t.he`.Underwriters say 5 to 7. When we run one man on our Truck
Company we cannot run this truck. $80,000 piece of equipment and we.
can't even run this on a Code 3. If you are aware of what this means.
or haven't watched Adam 12, this means red light and siren. Post
haste, get to the scene, we have our truck,man drive it, Code 2, he.....
stops at -all stop signs, looks twice when he gets to crossings, the
whole, bit.;, This -,: is. not what we consider good manning. We have been
sent to school.: ,We have college requirements that we have to get.
We go to school -: Mt. SAC, Pasadena, USCG, we go all over the place.
We take courses that .tell us how Fire Departments should be run.
This inci`udes.'management, personnel management, this includes equips.,
ment.syste'ms -'all these things. We learn what is to be done. We
come back and find we don't have it and the people worrder,why are they
so.excited?
If you don't think there is a difference'between
a 2'managng company and a 4 managing company, ask a captain or ask
an acting':engineer who is a captain on that crew. Ask somebody who
really knows what is the difference between 2 men on a pumper and 4
men on a pumper. Ask the people down in that area, they see a fire
station with imper in it, they feel they are getting the same
- 9 -
•
•
Ll
CITY COUNCIL Page Ten
PRESENTATION.OF 1972-173 BUDGET 7/26/72
benefit as somebody up in this end of town. They are not. A 2 man
company is not only inefficient in a sense, but it is also what we
feel could be a safety hazard for the personnel working on this piece
of equipment. So we definitely feel we have - and I have been here. for
10 years - the morale situation in our Department is the lowest I have
ever seen it and it stems from many areas. I would hope you fellows
will listen to what we say tonight, maybe we get emotional at times,
I have been told I get very emotional, but to me this is a very
emotional issue. When I see Departments like Covina, like Monrovia,
like San.Marino, all doing the same work and we can prove what we do,
we have.,regular schedules, reports, etc., when these gentlemen are
getting .$'50 to $70 a month more than we are getting I don't believe it
is fair.to have the press come out and make implications in articles:.
sent by staff and from city hall that necessarily an employee is being
"radical"or is being"grubby"or"hungry'! or trying to get something out -
of the City that they don't deserve. We are not radicals, we are
individuals, we all pay taxes, some of our people live in the City .of
West Covina and by the way they pay taxes and they are just as interest-
ed in good city government and in saving the tax dollars as well as
the next guy because they have to pay it too, but unfortunately when..
you work for a public entity as you do here,our way of getting paid,. -as
a lot different than plumbers or other people. When the clerk in a,.".:.
local grocery store gets a raise they, have to raise the price of corn.T
flakes and you don't say I am not going to buy cornflakes, you buy
cornflakes. When our cost goes up it is for "those money hungry
firemen,we are asking for unreasonable wages." We are not asking far.
unreasonable wages, gentlemen, we are asking for 7z/ across-the-board
for all.people in our Fire Department. This is below what we asked.
originally, this will not put us in the position of No. 3 but it will
put us at least in a competitive position with the small cities around
US.
tonight that you will
somebody to come down
we are saying tonight
Thank you.
Captain,Hill
Vice -President
W.C. Firemen's Assoc.
So I would hope through some of these comments
get the idea we are in bad shape. We need
and look at us and to consider some of the thl.P.gs
and we would hope that you gentlemen will do so.
salary survey do we now use?
What I have to say will not be repetitjgoAs.
It does ask a question however. You st-ated
that in the Spring of 1971 the Council
voted to drop the 10 City Survey - what
That is our problem.
In our salary negotiations this year we were
denied the use of any salary surveys whatsoever. After we negotiated
in the past through the W.C. Employees Association to which we belong,
we rind all of a sudden we no longer have a survey. Nobody even asked
us to negotiate a survey or even sit down and talk about it. Genera aly
in negotiations this is an accepted practice. We tried to use the 10
City Survey with no luck. We tried to present surveys of the
San Gabriel Valley area. We did present three. One of the San Gabriel
Val -ley area, one of all of Los Angeles County, and then the 10 city.,
survey. We left out in the L.A. survey L.A. County and L.A. City,
hoping this would be reasonable with the Council and staff. We ever...
tried to'.use the Police Department in our own City on a horizontal
basis, we were denied that. Then we were told - let's negotiate.
Is that the way you want us to negotiate? How do you negotiate like
that? Do you see the corner we were backed into. Nowlet.'s negotiate:
On what?
We didn't ask for County wages. We felt we.would
stay with.the position that we held in the past. We asked for the
relative
.position that we held in the,top one-third of the 10 City
Survey, which we felt was a reasonable request. We stayed with past,
policy. 'We had no luck to this point. We negotiated further and our
original request was right at the point of 12/ which seemed like a lot
or money but that would 'have retainedi'�i he position of third in the old.
CITY COUNCIL
PRESENTATION OF 1972-173 BUDGET
10 City Survey.
Page Eleven
7/26/72
It is a shame we got that far behind that we had
to ask for that much. So we were demoralized. We are sorry we had
• to be put in that position.
I'will also reaffirm to you that our morale is
low in -our Department. It is a fact that not all of our pumpers are
old, but it is a fact that two are 21 years old. One is being replac-
ed with a brand new pumper, that is a fact. But we still have another
21 year old pumper. Two men engine companies. I will reiterate one .
item there. I don't know if you are aware of it, but I have had
discussions with various staff members who are not in the Fire Depart-
ment, to determine if they felt the fire service was a dangerous
profession in the City of West Covina and I find that people really
don't think it is as dangerous as in other parts of the U.S. Believe
it or not! Statistically we can give you the entire facts that a
great many of the injuries and deaths occur at some of the most
ridiculous types of occurences and alarms and in some of the small.Qat
cities. So at this point we are below the national average on deaths
but the day we have a two man engine company and our people press
themselves a little harder to do the job it takes a three or four man
engine company to do and the day we lose two men then we are going :to
jump above the national average.Then we are going to have two
wives and a group of children without f athers. And I am telling you,
our job is dangerous.
We have asked for 72/. We asked for 72/ before
and I think it is justified. Thank you.
John Gelfuso I will be brief. My topic deals with the trade:
Fire Department of shifts. When I first came to this Department
West Covina we had a certain number of shifts, I can't remember
the exact number, but many of us have gone to
school for years in the daytime to get our AA degree in Fire Science'..
West Covina requires 30 units just to be hired. L.A. City and Courit�Z
only require a high school education: In West Covina to be able to
take the Engineer's exam the Department requires 15 college units.in
Fire Science and 21 units to take the .Captain's exam. And I think:: ,
this has been increased now but I am not sure. We work a 24 hour
schedule.. Some weeks I work 24 hours on°a Monday, 24 hours on a
Wednesday and 24 hours on a Friday. Most college classes meet Monday,
Wednesday and Friday. If I take a morning or evening class I am going
to miss these classes on the days I work. And this is not myself-.*.`
that I am referring to only, there are about 15 of us going to school
now. How can you attend school if you work 24 hours? It is
impossible. The only way a fireman can attend classes is to ask
another fireman to work for him while he. is attending school.
I did this for one full semester. I traded. We-
planned our trades so they would be from 8 A.M. to 12 or from 12 to-;4.
so they wouldn't interfere with training or afternoon inspections.,
This worked out quite well. I got to school, which certainly benefited
me and it didn't cost the City a penny..
Recently all traded shifts were cancelled. About
• 6 months ago. It was ironic because our Chief always stressed
education. I do have my AA now but this last semester I wanted to
continue.my education at Cal -State, Fullerton, trying"for_a Bachelor
Degree in.Public Administration, along with about five others.
If I can ,:achieve my goal in Public Administration it would certainly.:
be an asset to the Department and to 'myself. This is especially
designed" for government employees.
When all traded shifts were taken away from us
the reason given was we had enough time off already, but this isn't',..
a ya�id reason because of the way classes are scheduled and the way..:we
NEW
CITY COUNCIL Page Twelve
PRESENTATION OF 1972-173 BUDGET 7/26/72
work. Last semester I took time off without pay so I could attend
two classes on a Tuesday evening from 4 P.M. to 10 P.M. This is
over 60 hours I took off without pay when I could have traded with
another fireman and my classes were from 4 P.M. to 10 P.M., but the
Department would not allow me to go to school without pay unless I
• would go from 1:30 P.M. to 10:30 P.M. so I wouldn't interfere with
the afternoon schedule. If we still had traded shifts I would not
have lost all this pay. If the only way they will let us go to school
is to take time off without pay I can almost accept that but last
semester when I went to school I was docked 9 hours of pay for every
Tuesday I took off. If I am docked 9 hours of pay the Department
should call in an off -duty fireman to work for me and let that off-
duty fireman make a little extra money. Again it is not costing the
City anything. They take 9 hours pay away from me and give it to the
gentleman who worked in my place, but this was not done. The
Department, instead of calling in somebody to work for me, sends a:....-
fireman.on duty from Station 1 to cover my position, so Station 1
runs with a 3 man crew instead of a 4 man crew and the City docks me
pay and the City runs shorthanded at Station 1 and the City saves
money.
L.A. City Fire Department and most other
Departments, for example, are more progressive than West Covina. They
realize the value of education. When a fireman works a 24 hour
overtime shift he can either receive pay for it or take this time o.ff
from work to attend school for 6 times totalling 24 hours. They
understand the problem we have in trying to attend school with our 24
hour work schedule. Let me remind you again that school trades do not
cost the City a penny.
• I would like to refer to this new memo from our'
Department and I am sorry I could not get it, it is not out yet, I
just saw it yesterday and so I can only paraphrase what I saw. There
was one statement that said "no trades will be allowed without pay
during daytime hours except in an emergency." In other words he does
not want us to go to school at all during the day. After you have
f:i.n: she--d your AA in Fire Science there is just nothing offered to you
at night. If you want to go further you have to go in the daytime.
:L1: l go without .pay that is fine, I just want to get my degree and so
do a lot of us. But now this hasn't came out yet but it will and like
i.t says .no more trades during daytime hours except in an emergency..
Why this came out I don't know. Maybe this is just another co-
incidence. This memo came out just one week after the 100/
vote to join the Teamsters'. That's my opinion.
I would like to sum things up briefly by saying
by cancelling all trades of shifts which cost the City nothing, this..i:s
a mistake. The City is only showing the rest of the cities how
rnIuctant they are in giving benefits to their employees that are not
even costing the City anything. I ask that you overrule this memo
and return all traded shifts to the Department. It costs the City
nothing and it certainly would help our morale. -
MJchael. Holly I would like to know just how important the cost
Fireman of City Government is and if you are really
West Covina interested in saving money? There was a survey..
that just came out about the consolidation of
['ire Departments -into the County Fire Department. This survey stated
it would save the City of West Covina approximately $150,000 a year.
We know that you have budget problems and we have problems in the Fire
Department and it is my opinion and that of some of the other men of
the Department that this survey should be looked into. I don't know.if
You have taken any action on it or not.
We would also like to point out there has been
some a gutn nts in o Per cities about consolidation, for instance
Monrov.a was the last, and the people felt there would be a lack of
1-:2
s
�J
_.
CITY COUNCIL Page Thirteen
PRESENTATION OF 1972-173 .BUDGET 7/26/72
fire coverage. Well since we are running shorthanded, running with
firemen apprentice, Code 3, on the tailboard to make up the third
and fourth man on our different engines, these men are 18 to 21 years
of age, have not gone through any firemen training as such, they are
staking my life and the other firemen's lives on the line with this lack
of training, we feel we would like you to look into this program and
see if there is a savings and also look into the Fire Apprentice
program. I noticed in the paper there was a statement that you
budgeted_$4,000 over last year's budget for more Fire Apprentices
well that is great! They can clean our hoses and do the other things
we have,* been doing for the last 20 years and that we could still do...
Yet they aren't using them for that, they are using them to ride o,n'..the
tailboards. For myself I don't feel like putting my life on the line
with an 18 year old without experience. If you want to send them..t_o
school, give them the experience, fine. That is all I have to say.
(THIS COMP.L,ETED THE PUBLIC TESTIMONY AND COMMENTS WITH REGARD TO THE
FIREMEN.;)
Steve Solomon I am not going to speak in a long winded way
Attorney tonight. Our point is simply that last year the
W.C. Police Assoc. City Council asked the Police Association not
to in effect take a pay raise because the City
was in financial problems. The Police Association to a man didn't like
it, but; supported the Council 100% and did not receive a pay raise.:..
I understood there was a problem and this year the Council said they,_
would take care of the Police Department in terms of compensation and
fringe benefits. Some 12 meetings were held with the City Manager..
by my clients, as usual they asked for the moon but didn't get the'.....*
moon. Ultimately a three page document was approved and ratified
by the 'members and bears the signature of John Corby, W..C., Police
Officer, who is President of the Association, and also bears the
signature of George Aiassa. This was,hard nosed negotiations. I
don't care whether they didn't give sulrveys or what. When it was
all over both parties agreed to the -Memorandum. It is not the
greatest thing in the world and not the worst thing in. the world
but it is at least the best efforts of Mr. Aiassa and the Police
Association. They reached an agreement and now all we have asked off'
you is to honor your statements of last near that this year you would
take care of the Police Association, and honor the agreement signed,
by Mr. Aiassa and in effect enact by ordinance resolution the various
benefits set forth in the Memorandum. Thank you.
Mayor Young: Apart from several phone calls at home
evening, are there others who wish to
the Policemen's Association situation?
Barbara LeFlell
Sue Curry
Kathy McFuhn
L,i.sa Duncan
do not realize
community.. The
only fair that
this
speak to
We represent the youth of West Covina. We
believe the Police Department deserves more reco.gni-
tion than they have received in the past. People
take the Police Department for granted. They -feel
they are obligated to be there when needed. People
the dangers the police go,through to protect our
Police Department deserves a raise and we feel it is
they get this increase in*salary.
(TI•IIS COMPLETED THE PUBLIC TESTIMONY AND COMMENTS WITH REGARD TO THE
POLICE DEPARTMENT.)
Carol Whelan On behalf of our Association I would like to
President. introduce to you tonight - Joe Woodford,
W.C.C-E,A.. representative from the California League of
Cities Employees Association. Joe will speak on
behalf of'.the Employees' Association this evening relative to the
many subjects of discussion. Joe has represented our Association
throughout all the meet and confer process and will bp able to
- 13 -
}
•
CITY COUNCIL
hRESEN'.'AT-[O:N OF 1972-' 73 BUDGL:T
you.
Mr. Joe Woodford: I might as well launch into
then I will be available for
questions you might have.
Page Fourteen
7/2.6/72
my presentation and
any comments or
I would say that from our perspective a state of
confusion exists. The overriding question is "where are we in the
meet and confer process?" We have been somewhat confused in this
particular issue. We were told on July 18th by the City Manager that
the Memorandum of Understanding had not been rejected by Council but
it was in a state of limbo. Now we receive a letter stating it was.,
rejected by Council and that we are at an impasse. What is an impasse?
Unless I am mistaken, an impasse exists when the City representative
and tne employees representative have not reached agreement. But we
:lay:: reac:hea ar, agreement from our point of view. Gee did meet and confer
with the City's representative and have reached a fair agreement. I>Io.w
there appears to be a communication problem and a general state of.....
confusion. In fact it appears that the employees are the unwilling.
victims of the failure of communication between the Council and its
representative.
As to the merits of the individual items contained
in the memorandum, they have been discussed for many hours during the_
course of five meet and confer sessions with your staff. We feel we..
can defend and justify each and every item in the Memorandum. Your
stall-f most have come to the same conclusion or they would not have
�c11-c o tc) each and over% once of these items and jointly prepared this
.C�.:� ,m:.:, ..,, ,, •,., Einqp,,-oyeesAssociation met,..
an; cora:ke.r:red' with your representative as required by State Law and ...
the City"s own ordinances. We entered the discussions with an open
and objective mind on the City's financial situation. We made every
effort to find solutions to every single problem presented. We were
not dogmatic and we made every effort to develop good rapport and open
working relationship with your staff. We. wanted to determine on our
behalf f,or our members if the City's labor relations system works.
We feel the importance of this Memorandum cannot be over -emphasized.
Especially when you consider a large number of city employees have neat
received :a raise since July of 1970 or over two years ago. While the
cost of living and the medium income rises. Thus a situation has
been created where almost all of the City's employees have lost faith_
with the system and are frustrated to the point where they feel that
another course of action is needed. It is up to you to prove that
the system works. We have done our part, In the age of discontent
with the established system you must come to grips with the long
term effect of your decisions. In order for the City to develop and-:
maintain a viable labor relations program the employees must not lose'
confidence in the process. I might say I have seen this happen in
other cities and I can assure you none of us want this, the employee..,,
the staff,. the councilmen, or the citizens of the community of West:
Covina.
i
We respectfully request you adopt the Memorandum
of Understanding that we entered into in good faith.
Mayor Young: Are there others who wish to speak to the general
employee classification? That appears to cover;-::.,
the presentations from various employee groups.:'
This hearing is still open. We have before us the budget which has
been presented. Are there others who wish to testify in a more
general sense?
- 14 -
CITY COUNCIL
PRESENTATION of 1972"73 BUDGET
Page Fifteen
Harvey Krieger, Attorney Mr. Mayor and members of City Council,
100 So. Vincent Avenue I am here to speak to the Council on the
Res.: 1326 Hollencrest Drive subject of the Business License Fees.
West Covina I appear before the Cit Council as a
y
member of the Board of Directors of the
• West Covina Chamber of Commerce. My remarks, however, go beyond the
scope of that position and go to a subject matter which is before the
Council explicitly in the adoption of the budget and necessarily
before the Council in terms of defining the sources of revenue with
which to pay the cost of running this community.
As a prefatory statement - and I will keep it
short, Mr. Mayor - there was a meeting between myself and the City:..,.
Manager .on May 12 about the subject matter to which I am directing•._
the Cou.n:cil's attention tonight. That was.the Parking and Business:.,.
Improvement Area Law of 1965. This meeting with the City Manager
was followed up with a joint meeting with the City Manager, City
Controller - Mr. Eliot, Mr. Strachan - Chamber manager, and myself -
on June 1, 1972, wherein the subject matter was the same. It was �iy
desire, intention and hope to bring this matter to the attention of
the City Council at some point after the adoption of the fiscal year
budget, for consideration and hopefully action by Council. However,
by reason of the request of the City Council the staff has reported,:...
back to the City Council a possible increase in revenue from Business.
Licenses. I am here to address myself to that subject in perhaps an
unusual.manner. I ask not that the City Council fail to increase
Business Licenses in the City of West Covina, I merely ask that they
defer any positive or overt action in that direction at this time.:'
•My reasoning in that regard is quite simple.
Early in this year before the budgetary considerations confronted
the City, which has been historical in nature, the Executive Committ.e,e
of the Board of Directors of the Chamber of Commerce met and consider-
ed this very same subject,•but in a different manner, the increase in
Business Licenses in the City of West Covina. The format of that d.i•s-
cussion.was the Parking and Business Improvement Area Law of 1965,
which utlizes Cities to impose a tax in addition to the general
Business License Tax for the general promotion of retail trade
activities in the area. Perhaps unusual and perhaps unique, but at:
least commendable, the Executive .Board of the Chamber of Commerce a"
the Board of Directors, and I might say,also this evening, unanimously
indicated they were in favor of a Business License increase in the pity
of West Covina.
It was my responsibility to bring this program
to the attention of first, the administration of this City, and then
the City Council in the hope that the Parking and Business Improvement
Area .Law of 1965 would be enacted. LIf it were in fact, what would .,*.,,,'-.-
happen would be a general business license increase across -the -board: -
in the City of West Covina; however,; in the scope, guides and prevq.
of that Act, whereby those funds which would be raised from the
professional and business community would be specifically earmarked:
for the general promotion of trade activities in the area, which
they should certainly be. This would take the City of West Covina
out of the perennial and perpetual and time consuming problem of
• renegotiating on an annual basis a contract with the Chamber of
Commerce., This is a self-defeating process that is engaged in year -in
and year,out, without redemptive features or quality. The Business.
Improve.m,ent Law of 1965 has broad implications in its scope. It would
enable the Chamber to operate effectively and efficiently in the gehpral
promotion..of retail trade activities in the City of West Covina. It
would satisfy the City Council and staff, as to the funding of those..
activities and the appropriation of those funds to appropriate sources
and tag th6 creation of a major source of income for the City and that
is sales tax revenues.
15 -
NW ® e W W
CITY COUNCIL Page Sixteen
PRESENTATION OF 1972-173 BUDGET: 7/26/72
My appearance this evening would not have occurred,
I had no intention of making an official presentation on this matter at
all, but the circumstances and the events compelled me to appear before
this Council asking you to defer overt, covert or intentional action.
indicating your intention to increase the Business License revenues in
the form reported back to you in the staff report, not necessarilyas a
recommendation but at least in a report responsive to your request, so
that this entire subject matter may receive, and it certainly deserves,
separate consideration and full consideration with broad implications
and I believe long term benefits for the City of West Covina in terms
of removing from the General Fund expenditures the Chamber activities
in the future - the activities of the entire business and professional
community in the promotion of retail sales in the community, which has
not historically been the case.
Now if the Council by its wisdom, desire or
necessity moves forward with the increase in Business Licenses in ;
order to make up a deficit in the General Fund then obviously those;.,..,.
funds from that source will be applied to the needs of the City. Bu.t
I suggest the mechanism of the Business 'Improvement Area Law of 196:5_
is much more effective and much more redemptive for this very same.
purpose. It is proposed by the Chamber and certainly by myself, toave
this matter before this Council in the current fiscal year, so if upon
hearing and resolution of the City this law is implemented in the City
the revenues would be available at exactly the same time - January
1973.
What I am concerned about in addition to the
mechanism. of the present approach in the terms of considering an
increase in Business Licenses either to get additional funds of
$26,491;.or $41,951 is a patchwork job on the Business License fees..
in this .City. It doesn't accomplish what the Business Involvement
Area Law.of 1965 would permit the City of West Covina to accomplish:
as well as the West Covina Chamber of Commerce. There is a mutuality
of interest in this matter, there is no conflict of interest. There
is no objections to a total study and a realistic review of the
Business.:.License fees of the City and the application of those fees "
in a mariner that will do the most good. I would respectfully suggest
to the Council to do so in the course of these budget hearings would
probably. create a climate of antagonism to the entire merits of the
program which would not be based upon fact but based upon reaction 'to,
a Business License increase at this time. The Executive Board and the
Board of Directors have authorized me to appear for this limited
purpose.
Mr. Mayor and members of Council, I am prepared .to
answer any questions that this subject matter may raise;other than
that,I believe the law itself is complex and involved but completely
workable.and has been adopted in other communities and is working
effectively.
a.
Mayor Young: Thank you, very much. In partial response to
your comments, I am sure you address a concept
to the Council that has not been previously
considered by Council. The purpose of this evening's meeting is no,t
so much the funding of the budget, because that will come at a later.
-- ` time, but we do hope to adopt a budget tonight and then we will see'what
our funding needs are. With those thoughts in mind and to hear it at.
this time would have to be superficial at best, so I think your
comments would be appropriately at this point referred to Staff for a
very prompt reply back to the Council.
Councilman Lloyd: A question of Mr. Krieger. What kind of
monies would you project for this? I have several
questions and it may be that they are interworked
because I:.`do not know what we are talking about. As I understand this
it must.be en�cted,before the end of this month - is that correct?
CITY COUNCIL Page Seventeen
PRESENTATION OF 1972-173 BUDGET 7/26/72
Mr. Krieger: No sir, on the contrary, it must be enacted through
the course of public hearings before January 1,
1973. Responding to the Mayor's comments, I
quite agree, in fixing the budget you are not fixing the source of
revenue per se, however I felt obliged to point this matter out in a
manner that I do consider premature so that Council will at least be
aware of this as it discusses in the course of its deliberations of
possible sources of revenue.
Councilman Lloyd: What kind of revenues did you project?
Mr. Krieger: In the last fiscal year there were 1358 licenses
issued by the City of West Covina. The revenue.
from those licenses were $93,571.63. The types
of revenue that we are talking about do. not diminish that figure,.
it is an additional levy upon that figure increasing it by a factor
necessary to fund the total activities of the Chamber of Commerce.
The total activities of the Chamber in the last year was $70,000. The
intent of the Act is to enable a funding mechanism from the Business
and Professional community to reach to totally fund the Chamber budget.
So the actual mechanics would be directly dependent upon what total
revenues. are desired and what the equivalent is in a percentage inor':ease
across-the-board or in classifications on the Business License Tax..
Councilman .Lloyd: Thank you.
Mr. Aiassa: Mr. Krieger and I have.worked on this matter and
for the Council s benefit, this would eliminate::-.:.
the Chamber's existing budget.
• Mr. Krieger: It has the broadest implications which I don't
think this is the time or place to develop, but
the Business License Fee was on your agenda.
Mayor Young: Thank you. Does Council concur that we have
a prompt staff investigation and report on this....
matter?
So moved by Councilman Lloyd, seconded by
Councilman Chappell and carried.
H. Kaelin As the old showman says, Harvey Krieger is one
GOO - So. St. Malo hard act to follow.; I wish I had got up here
West Covina before him. He. is one of the best speakers I
have ever heard and also one of the best Mayor's"
we have had in this City. }
Mr. Mayor and members of Council, I have here
tonight a petition, not per se, but it does say at the top "West Covina
City Tax Revolt. We,the undersigned oppose any form of increase in
City property tax." These sheets of paper contain 486 names of
re,sidents'_in this City obtained by twelve people. If these twelve
people had- gone out at the exact same time it would have taken them::'Z
two hours. to get this number of signatures. This is an unorganized
organization, if organized we could have had twenty times this number,
One person in here said "she would sign it, however she was moving
out of the City because her taxes were being raised."
I have no quarrels with city employees raises and
your problem is to raise revenue. One of the means for raising
additional:- tevenue for the City was brought up last month, but it was,
quickly.shelved, called the Gross Retail Sales Tax. In jest, one of
the City:Councilmen said he didn't think three of the members of
Council could vote on it because they were businessmen in the City.
Another member of Council said he didn't think the businessmen -would gp
for this and would dislike it much because they would have to open
their, books and in his own experience he had enough agencies already..;..
�n 17 _
® 19
CITY COUNCIL
PRESENTATION OF 1972-173 BUDGET
Page Eighteen
7/26/72
inspecting his books. I would like to call the Council's attention
to the fact and request that his particular remarks be stricken from
the records because unless he owns a business in this City, which I
do not know about, he works for the State. And if he is tali;ing about
agencies inspecting his books at the State office then he should go to
his superiors and complain and not complain to the City. It has no -
correlation with the Gross Retail Sales Tax.
Other cities around us have either lowered their
city property tax or held it. I am referring to Covina, Azusa,
Baldwin Park, Walnut, and the County has even reduced their taxes or
say they are going to. The County Supervisors did but the County
Assessors upped them again. I read in the papers recently West Covina
has an increased assessed evaluation of 5.93/ which means if I paid..
$600. in taxes last year they will go up $36. this year.
I briefly went over the entire City Budget, one,
,.
thing caught my eye and that was "Memberships and Subscriptions" for
the various Departments of the City. In totalling them up it came..�o
over $12,000. I noticed in tonight;s pamphlet passed out they have
reduced:that by $2,150. The one thing I objected to mostly among all
of them was the Kiplinger California Letter requested by the Planning
Department. I would gladly subscribe to that paper and give them m_y
copy if they have to subscribe to that paper to do planning and if .so
they ought to get out of the office and just go around the City.
The Gross Sales Tax idea according to the City:,.
map put out by the Chamber of Commerce and the City of West Covina on
retail. sales for 1969 was over $125,000,000. I understand according;
• to the City Finance Officer the projected Gross Retail Sales for 1972-
'73 will.be close to $148,000,000. If there is some legal way you.:.:
could impose a � to 1/ tax on this Gross Retail Sales it would bring::.
in over $700,000. This would not only make up the deficit of $457,000
but would give us additional revenue to increase the recreational
facilities within our City. Now this might put you in the so called
"kit.chen" and as the Tribune so aptly put it the other day when th6y.".
quoted I•iarry Truman "if you are in the kitchen and it is too hot for,
you get out." Thank you.
Mayor Young: Thank you, Mr. 'Kaelin and I might say if you will
hand me one of those petitions opposing a tax
increase I will be happy to sign it and I think
everyone in the room will, but we still have a job to do here.
Councilman Shearer: Mr. Mayor, since I am the only member of the
Council that works for the State of California'
I am assuming Mr. Kaelin was referring to a
statement I made. I don't recall exactly what I said but I will
explain what I meant. I don't own a business but there are two
agencies that annually directly or indirectly inspect "my books".
One is the Internal Revenue Board and the other is the Franchise Tax.
Board of .California. All I meant was that I didn't feel the City
and I assume they also inspect everybody else's that file income
tax forms - so all I was implying there was I didn't feel it was the4�
business of the City to also get in the situation where they too
inspect books, not my books because I don't have a business in the
City, but I used it as a figurative term, but the 1100+ businesses i-n
the City. So there are two agencies that do inspect my financial
records annually. That is all I meant..
Councilman Nichols: Mr. Mayor, a comment. Earlier in the evening I
indicated I felt our comments should be directed
more to fact tha.n'debate. I would like to clarify
something..unless the audience get a misimpression from something that
was stated. It was stated a few moments ago that there was a device.
called a "Gross Sales Tax". The.device is in actuality a Gross
Receipts Tax and it is another method of levying a charge,against
-- - 18 -
14W 1W
CITY COUNCIL Page Nineteen
PRESENTATION OF 1972-173 BUDGET 7/26/72
people who are in business in the City and it is a program that budgets
to create. a Business License Revenue by relating it to the amount of
dollar volume that the individual business man relates in rather than
the number of employees or something else. This in no way relates to
the dollars of sales in West Covina and the figure that was quoted of
some $125,000,000 and then $700,000 if the Council would legislate
some tax, is constitutionally and legislatively beyond the prevue of
the City of West Covina to levy. The State of California levies sales
taxes on the dollars of business that are handled in the City of West
Covina and at the present time the City of West Covina gets l on that
through, the generousity of the legislator. So there is no human way._
constitutionally or legislatively that this body can levy any tax..t-hat
would produce $700,000 in new revenue or even any figure remotely .
approximating that.
THE CHAIR CALLED A RECESS AT 9:10 P.M.. COUNCIL RECONVENED AT 9:30 P.M.
Mayor Young: Are there others who desire to address Council.:;.at
this time? This is your opportunity to do so-.
on the general subject of the budget, taxes and.
salaries.
Ann De.Flaco I am assuming you all saw the movie "the Godfather''.
616 So. St. Malo I haven't come up here with an offer you can't-.-.
West Co:v.ina refuse but I have come up here to make a plea. '.I
had the opportunity to go to a few homes and talk
to people and see how they felt about a property tax increase. Thdy
were all very sympathetic and felt like I did that we are being over-t
taxed. 'I strongly feel especially having the opportunity to review the
City Budget for 1971-'72 that we can, and the City Manager should trim
• the City budget more than he has.
I am in agreeance that our policemen and firemen
should have a raise. They are risking their lives for us, they area..,.
doing a very good job. As far as an overall raise for all city employees,
there T personally draw the line. I don't feel that all city employees
are entitled to a raise. I personally have worked most of my life.and
I have never worked in a place where everyone was given a raise. A.raise
was given to the individual who earned it.
o -
My husband and I are in business in Irwindale and
when we had employees more than we have now, we did not automatically
pass out raises. We found that we had men that worked for us that ..
worked hard, produced,and they got the raises. We also had the other.
kind, the -kind that come in and watch the clock for the coffee break:.:
time, watch the clock for lunchtime, etc., and were very aware that
Wednesday was payday. They put in their time, they didn't produce
for us. So consequently some of them did leave us due to no raises but
believe me we had no problems replacing them.
I feel if the City employees, some of the City
employees...are dissatisfied with their salary I am sure we have many.
unemployed qualified people that would be happy to have a job. I also.
am thinking of the younger generation. Our young property owners that
are just:. starting out, buying their first home, putting everything
they had -down in a down payment, and then their payments are whatever:.
they are. budgeted for and they live from pay day to pay day and I know.
an increase on their property tax will create a hardship. Now these
young people are'starting out with families and I am speaking for m
own son who has a home here in West Covina, two children, "one a new
baby, 5 weeks old. Also a daughter living in West Covina, two childx.en.
My daughter's payments are $151. and she,is scratching to make the
payments.'. My son's $181. and he is scratching to make the payments.
With an increase - well I am real concerned.
So I feel that our City Manager should sharpen
his pencil and I think he can do a better -job then he has been doing.'.
And if he:.can't, maybe he should be replaced. .That's all I have to --say.
_ is -
NW
�► e s "' ®'
CITY COUNCIL
11k PRESENTATION OF 1972-173 BUDGET
Page Twenty
:;IF. Lollie Bergman I would like to make two distinct presentations
South Leaf Ave., since this meeting tonight was specifically
West Covina called for presentation of the budget. However
I find myself unable to let the number of
comments that have been made tonight go by without asking that Council
jY! make some effort to discuss these items. One of them is in regard to
the survey, that a great deal has been made of as having been dropped.
tFrom my memory it was not the survey dropped, yet I find other evidence
1presented here tonight that it might have been, I believe that I
,remember the discussion of the Council at the time that it was the
'locked in policy position established from the survey, 'a specific level
'of salary. I concurred in the Council's action at that time and so*
would most citizens if it were explained to them, because it had
- created .a,"round robin" where every City having a similar statement
rx would cUntinue to raise so if everybody was supposed to be at the gird
1t`r� step nobody would ever be at third step because they would all be
rY;
bumping each other out of the way. However, if,as evidenced by some
of the presentations tonight, no other surveys of surrounding
communities can be used in salary negotiations then I do feel the
Employee Associations would be in a very weak position of showing how
much they are worth and they are worth something in relationship tQ
other cities. However, my principal concern with the employees is
that tonight a great deal of comment was made that in effect was
public knowledge and I feel they were spilling over in the need to ge`t
these comments on record. Maybe much othe data has not been known to
other citizens, but I have been concerned about it for a great deal of
time and their low morale that they speak of is crushing when you stop
to think that it is the only thing that really makes a community work;.
together. The morale of the people and the employees that serve them,
• To me the morale factor is so important because we can get no employee
efficiency unless they have some type of satisfaction in their
employment and I feel it calls for more .than money. Maybe everything..
else has been so much abused that money is the only"thing they can
really hang their hat on and if some salary adjustments are made along
with their desire to really increase efficiency and help the City
Council and administration to find ways of saving waste, we can all•,'.
benefit.
As it pertains to budget items, although the agenda
reads "Presentation of 1972-173 Operating Budget" the only item throig.h
the entire study budget sessions available for public perusal is this
item tonight that says "Proposed Reduction in Preliminary Budgets".*
All right, I have heard all the budget sessions. I have attended them
for a number of years. I can only try and remember some of the budget
discussions that came up as you gentlemen were discussing the papers in
front of you and relate it to my familiarity with the budget. Taking.:
the proposed reductions submitted tonight I have some items that I
would hope the Council will discuss in their deliberations.
One is the number of typewriters that appear to
be cut out. One for the City Manager's office, one for the Police
it must .be more than two at $1400 worth of typewriters for the Police
Department. I question are these replacement typewriters or necessary,
typewriters,for additional personnel or just why suddenly so many
typewriters that had been proposed are now cut off? In other words
were they. necessary in the first place and if they were how can they'
-get along without them?
Another item under Community Promotion,
Muncipal Advertising of $200. I can assume this has to do with legal
notices. Is this just a paper cut tomake a budget presentation?
How can anything but an estimate be made for the amount of legal
advertising necessary for the year, so that a $200. cut can be made?'
Maybe a $1.,,000 can be cut off of the paper. Similarily, $100. in
annexations.. The cost of annexations surely cost what they cost.
Are some of these budget cuts then strictly papercuts to make some
kind of a paper balance? Regarding three of the City Commissions,-
' - ,20 -
the Planning Commission, Personnel Board and Recreation and Parks
Commission, cutting out $200. and $100. there, does this mean these
Commissions will meet less time, or have I the wrong interpretation
and that it takes a certain amount of stenographic work to record
• these Commission meetings?
The Small Tools of street repair $700. and
Equipment Maintenance $350. Is this equipment going to be maintained
in less.than the best condition andare the small tools to the tune of
$700. going to be furnished by the individual workers? Also relating
to Small....Tool.s to the City Manager's account $34.00. That seems to be
a questionable figure. And the Recreation figure $5,000 proposed cut.
I do remember in your deliberations a discussion that one of the ways
to cut would be'the.winter program. Does this mean the entire cut of
the winter program? The public will not be aware of this until it
comes time for the winter programs and .there are no after school
programs.. I call your attention to the fact there is no restructuring,
no resetting of a program that would possibly still give service
needed, but just an outright cut that covers the whole thing.
These are the items I would hope would be under
discussion as you make your deliberations. Thank you.
Mayor..Young: I think one point you made, Mrs. Bergman, might
bear an immediate response. I believe the large.,
detailed budgets that the Council is provided. —
with are' available at all times to the public in Mr. Eliot's
office at all times throughout the hearings. That has always been
• my understanding.
Mrs. Catherine Howard I don't wish my remarks to be mis-
1428 East Merced Avenue interpreted as a plea for an increase.in
West Covina taxes but I felt the Council might benefit
by hearing maybe from the other side qf'`
the coin by hearing from a taxpayer in the City of West Covina.
You know that I have been a constant'attender at the Council meetings
and unfortunately this year was not able to attend the Budget Study
Sessions because 'I was out of town. I do wish to inform the Council
that there are those of us in West Covina that are informed enough
of the dilemma that faces the City to be realistic enough to feel
confidence in our City Council and partial confidence in our administra-
tion to realize that a tax increase, if necessary, even if only a
temporary one, may be the answer to bring West Covina over the hump
until their business and Redevelopment Agency is completed.
We do not wish to seem, at least I don't feel I
want to push for additional taxes, but as I stated to Council last
year, I feel the $54.37 I give to the City each year in my taxes is
the best.'value that I get for any dollar I spend right now.
Unforturiately the City finds itself in a dilemma, I will not alludp�
to why the City finds itself in this dilemma, it is here. It is a,
reality.'.. 'and you are faced with a decision. But I do not wish the
Council Ito feel that there are many people in this City who do not
have confidence in them, that they will make the proper decisions
.and if a 17e increase is necessary for a temporary period of time
- the citizens of West Covina are willing to pay it. At least I am.
There are.those that will not be able to. afford it unfortunately.
I am not°.s:aying it will be easy for us or for everyone but if it is..'
necessary. then I am afraid we will have to look at it -with reality.,
It is here... Whether the County raise's our taxes, the School District
raises our taxes, the fact still remains that the City must have the'
money to operate on.
If in your own conscience you feel you have made
all the budget cuts that you can possibly make and still retain the
services offered by the City, then I am afraid gentlemen, we will
ave to go alopg with the 17e increase`or"any increase you decide oil.
�(� - 21 -
CITY COUNCIL Page Twenty-two
PRESENTATION OF 1972-173 BUDGET 7/26/72
I wish you to know,gentlemen, that you have my
confidence and I am sure you have the confidence of many other people
in the City, if not the 486 that signed the petition. Thank you.
George De Flaco Mr. Mayor and members of Council, I am 53 years
• 616 So. St. Malo old and I have never in my lifetime seen a
West Covina property tax put on temporarily and taken off.
That's all.
Mayor Young: Is there anyone else that would like to address.
the Council? It would appear that the ball is
passing to the City Council. I will declare the
public hearing closed. The floor is open, gentlemen.
Councilman Nichols: Mr. Mayor, I think we. have to decide first on
procedure. As I understand it there are several
aspects presented to us tonight. I think one
of them .by law is a negotiation item, which is the impasse that has...
been created initially between management and the Fire Department and
the Council; the City Attorney has indicated that item would warrant.:
and authorize an Executive Session to discuss the personnel matters
involved. So at an appropriate time, Mr. Mayor, I believe the Council
should adjourn to an Executive Session. The balance of the requests
for salary increases and fringe benefits and general discussion of.:.
the budget matters are appropriately for public discussion here. I a.m
not at all prejudiced as to which should come first. If the chair'
wishes we can go into the general discussion of these areas or if the
chair would entertain it we can go into Executive Session and disco.'5.s.
the impasse situation first.
• Mayor Young: I would just as soon have a Personnel Session now,
if that is agreeable to Council members.
So moved by Councilman Chappell, seconded by ,
Councilman Lloyd and carried. b
COUNCIL'ADJOURNED AT 9:50 P.M. TO EXECUTIVE SESSION RE PERSONNEL
MATTERS IN THE FIRE DEPARTMENT. COUNCIL RECONVENED AT 10:18 P.M.
Mayor Young: We have two basic problems before us now.
One, which relates to salary adjustments. The
second relates to the budget itself. As an order
of procedure we will undertake discussion and action on salary
adjustments first and then undertake discussion and action on the
budget. The floor is open with respect to salary adjustments.
.Councilman Lloyd: Mr. Mayor. I think that one of the things that...
has to be presented as far as this Council is
concerned is the philosophy of running the City.
No doubt when we had the money and things were rolling along pretty.,.:::;,
good the -.Councils historically in the City of West Covina have been.
as open.and generous as they thought necessary to achieve the
harmonious flow of legislative and administrative functions of the.
City. Unfortunately we find ourselves in an economic bind, which I
personally believe is the result of poor planning in the City in
earlier Years in the relationship of shopping centers to a freeway
which had.little or no access and the developing of shopping
center concepts which are awe-inspiring .and overwhelming, such as
Montclair;, Newport, etc.. We are faced with competitive problems
of-tryin,g.to fix an economic base for this City. I don't think
there is.any question about the fact that we don't have any industrial
capabiiity, therefore we have been faced to get money through the
property:owner in the form of taxes or through sharing situations with
other government agencies, State, Federal and County, as evidenced by -
this City. Hall.
While I never voted on this City Hall - in fact
CITY COUNCIL Page Twenty-three
PRESENTATION OF 1972-'73 BUDGET. 7/26/72
one member only really did - the point is not germane and at the time
we got a whale of a fine bargain and the working conditions for
employees are as fine as anybody has in the total of the L.A. area.
But the fact remains we have to pay our $200,000 a year for the use of
this building. We are acquiring it as a City and if I had to vote all
over for. it I am sure I would have voted for it.
We also have the problem of egoes, which involve
ourselves as well as the employees. We want our City and our peopl.e,'.to
be "better than other cities". Unfortunately we have to pay for these
things. We can trade off. ,One of the things we did do was shift from
social.. security to the State program because we really believed it....would
be beneficial to all the city employees and I think it was beneficial
and certainly it is a better program than anything I have.
So the fact remains those times have gone, cost,.of
living has come along, it hits me and you and everybody and we have to
find some method of compensating. There is no question in my mind, .we.,.
did indeed ask you people collectively to bear with us while we solved
the economic problems of this thing., I, am going to tell you very
frankly we have not solved the problems. We have, however, made an ,
obligation to you to find monies to give you some sort of compensatory
raise in salary to represent either our igood faith or what we would
lilie to think is the best we can do. In order to do this we are gq„,pg
to have to find revenues and the only revenues we are going to find,:'
since we. have fairly well exploited ;those of other governmental
agencies, we can raise taxes or we can raise other fees so we can
raise the monies in order to come up.;with the monies that are required
to give salary raises that we think are necessary also. We are faced
with a terrible dilemna. There are 72,000 people who live in this
• City. Certainly 36,000 are potential voters. We have 18,000 households
approximately. I know if I come in'and for a tax raise of any...
amount I know people are going to be very unhappy with us and I think
they have good justification because those out of, work have no way. -of
making it up, those on fixed incomes and many are, particularly older
people,ihey have no way of making it good. The money that we will..,.,,.
have to have to increase our taxes are going to be taken out in just:
plain blood and sweat, and some people just don't. have it. Those of.
you who are younger at this pointy ofiaourse that age is beyond the
scope; those of you closer up there and facing those retirements
wi.l1. be facing the same situation. How.to make the buck stretch
further? Particularly on retirement income. So we are faced with this
dilemma.
I am reviewing what®our discussions were in our
budget meetings with the City Manager. We want equity. We recognize
there has been no agreement with the firemen. We also recognize the
City Manager has indeed and I would say in good faith he has met and
he has conferred. Of course, one of the dilemmas is that the Milias.
Brown Act really does not say a City by law must operate on a
ba.lanced-11�udget. We can't run deficit. We have to balance the budget
therefore the Milias Brown Act is not applicable if you have to run
a deficit situation and that is really where we are.. How much are we
going to raise taxes - how much are we going to raise the business ,
licenses - in order to achieve a salary increase for the people.
. There have been several recommendations. 51,2%
for the miscellaneous employees, 7 z/ for the police. Frankly the o61.y.
thing that is left off is the firemen because there have been no
agreements. We obviously have to take into consideration'if we give a
raise to.the police and miscellaneous employees we must definitely
give something to the firemen. They,:just can't stand there forever:
We are not in a.position to do a great deal of negotiation at this
Point. We"' have to come up with a budget and negotiations have kind:.
of passed us by and I.think one of the things we are all in agreemen-t..
on is that, we are going to have to review the situation of this city.., -
in the neXt year and come up with better foundation than we have
23 -
® �r q
CITY COUNCIL Page Twenty-four
PRESENTATION OF 1972-173 BUDGET 7/26/72
at the present moment. The decisions we are going to make right now
will be based on the information we have right now.
I guess what we are really talking about is do
• we want to give 5%% to the miscellaneous and I am certainly willing to
accept that. Are we willing to accept 7%% for the police. I don't.:,.
know how I feel about that, except I know there is a disparity.
If I give 5?% to one group and 7%% to another group I frankly am
headed for trouble. And if I give 72% to the police it would appear
to me, if there is any equity at all, I would have to consider 7?%
for the firemen. I am unable, even .though I have served in governmental
agencies for a long period of time, to distinguish, although I am sure
there is no equality. I am sure those who are police can promptly.
show me just what the differences are. The fireman is there for 24
hours and he can sleep while there and he can do this and that. As
firemen'have indicated to you, firemen as far as morality rate is
concerned really suffer greater hazards than police. So I am f aced..
with a dilemma. I don't know, but I know one thing I am stuck with
having to'make a decision.
My immediate inclination in trying to find equity
is to say across-the-board I would like to see a 6% raise.
Councilman Nichols: Mr. Mayor, before I make my major comments that
everyone wants to hear, there were two things.:.
I wanted to comment on. One is the talk that I
have heard and the letter to the editor in the Daily Tribune that I.
read about on our Civic Center, and the kind of chuckles and applause..
•that followed the comment about the plush city hall we have. As th""
senior member of the Council I am the only man here accountable for.
this facility. It goes back to the days of Jett, and Heath, and
Snyder, and Krieger, and Nichols, and in the interim discussions of:
this Civic Center and the total development it was Jett, Heath. and
Nichols against it and Snyder and Krieger for it, I can look around
this audience and see the faces of some of the people that personally
contacte.d..me and urged me to vote in, Ifavor of this facility. I can
remember the tour I was taken on down into the City Yard and that old'
shack on,.Sunset where they said be careful so you don't step through
this hole. -in the floor, I was contacted by the Judges, Police officers,
not justbyCity management, by many,' many, many people urging me and
urging me. to change my position and provide new city facilities for' our
City. After about six or eight months of dilly-da.11ing and shiliy-
shalling.I changed my position and on a 3 to 2 vote this Civic Center
was authorized. I don't think the employees of our community today
any good service to the municipal family by lending themselves
to the kind of talk that we have a wasteful facility. If today we
built th.i.s building we would get about two-thirds of what we have for.
1.
the dollars we paid and we would be paying percentages more in interest
rates for the facilities. We got one of the best buys by moving when.:
we moved`.of any municipality in California and I hope all of you who•
are loyal employees of our City will defend our efforts and not in
these times of turmoil about salaries' use the $200,000 annual payment
as a statement as to why you don't get your raises. You know if we,'. -.:'.-
took that $200,000 this year and gave you a 5% raise with it that
$200,000 for one 5% raise would be used up for all time and next year
for another 5% we would need another $200,000 and the year after
another $200,000 and so on. So the $200,000 we pay each year isn't'.'.;_.'
really critical to your salary needs or our city operation but it
prov:ides'a facility for all time. So "let's go out heft and defend our
municipality and our city complex. I't is a darn good buy.
This has been a long hard period of time. I have
been on this Council for 8 years. I have voted yes on every salary.
recommendation and on every employee benefit that has ever come befdkd'.
me in the •8 years up until now. I don't think I have a negative
reputa,t1Qn', I was the leading advocate -on this Council to move this
24 -
® MW
CITY COUNCIL Twenty-five
T
PRESENTATION OF 1972-173 BUDGET Page Page
City family into the State Retirement Program which greatly increased
the cost but being in the program myself I knew the benefits would be
better. But we do come to hard times. These are hard times. You
people have been doing without raises and some of the rest of us have
• been doing without them too and to the extent we can see our way clear
to provide support to you and remuneration for you, we will do that.:
Now the recommendations that have come up to the
Council -involve differentials. It was my feeling that all we can do.:
this Spring was provide a cost of living adjustment. The cost has
gone up for the Street Department man, the fireman, the policeman I.
and for every one of you. It has gone up no more for a fireman than:.a
policeman, no less for a street department employee than a recreation.
department employee. Admittedly there are disparities in our salary
structure. Admittedly, and I certainly concur, we need to get back
to more detailed surveys so that when funds become available we can...
as we have in the pastlmake internal adjustments in varying ranges,..
in employee groups, but I approach this year as an effort to try and
help you cope with the inroads of inflation.
For myself I am not going to join in the game -of
differentiating in raises between Departments in this City. I am going
to form".a judgment value as to what I feel is a reasonable property
tax a.ncre.ase for a reasonable, not an ideal, not a good, but a reaso.n-
able cost of living adjustment and that is where I hang my hat and so.
I will support Councilman Lloyd in his position.
Councilman Shearer: Mr. Mayor. Harvey Krieger may be a good speaker
but Russ Nichols is also a hard act to follow...
• Maybe he is second ;best.
You have your third vote. I am not going into.. .a
long discourse. I too feel by attempting to give differential raises.
without a study by an impartial group is dangerous grounds. This i,s
not to amply that the police department may not be worth 12/ more than
they are getting now - I don't know. And maybe the fire department' .or
some other department is worth twice as much. How do you measure worth?
Someone mentioned tonight something about some This kind.of
grabs me'`in a way because then it implies we are paying for a life and
I have not yet come up with what a life ds worth. To get into that.,-,,
type of a situation where we are going t'o compensate someone for their
life then I am in the wrong seat and'I want out. So how do you
measure what someone is worth? I can't at this point. Therefore an
across-the-board cost of living raise that can be measured, a
reasonable one, one that does require a tax increase or a budget cut..':
There are two ways. I have looked over ;our budget and granted there,..,:
are areas probably where we could reduce subscriptions and cut
something, out here and there but when we get into that area we get
into the , area of cutting out fire hoses and the replacing of worn ou.,t'-:
fire hoses, and we get into the areas in the police department that,..
perhaps is already overaged, and as someone who called me tonight
before I left said - the way to get the raises for the Police Depart.:.
ment is to do away with the Recreation and Parks Department and if
there arb any Recreation and Parks Department people here I am sure.
I wouldn'..t get a very good response to that.
So everybody h
y y as their solutions on how to raise
money. Really when you start cutting a budget as I see it, the only.
way I would be able to is start cutting personnel. Cutting salaries.
But j.f you are going to give a raise J)y cutting people out I will
never, unless it is shown to me that certain employees are not really
productive or necessary for the City, 'I will never go for a raise
while we'are cutting off other people. This is incompatible to me
and I made this statement a year ago.' So at this point in time a
cost of living raise I would be prepared to go on 52/. The
indication here is 6% so.I will add my vote on an across-the-board
a_perease for every c}.ty employee, and.less I be -misquoted later, 'wit h
s 1 e ® W W
CITY COUNCIL
PRESENTATION OF 1972-173 BUDGET
Page Twenty-six
7/26/72
the exception of Department Heads and above.
Mayor Young: The matter of Department Heads has not come before
the Council as yet.
• Councilman Shearer: I made that statement because Department Heads
and the City Manager, etc., are employees and if
I said "all employees" then somebody comes back
and says.- well you said it - and that is not what I meant.
Councilman Chappell: I think we have a count. No matter what we
decided on this evening a certain element of our
community would be very unhappy. If we gave a
far greater increase taxes would go up higher for our citizens,
especially those on fixed incomes would be discouraged. If we gave;;
any less than 6% we would be unfair to our employees and not showing, good
faith as we have in prior years and sincnI have been on Council, and
that we hope to maintain. I think there are things going on in this
community that will help us in our dilemma. The city staff, the
Chamber of Commerce and City Council are working on a project in this
community to build up the area of our City that we have received mo.st
of our receipts from in the past and that is the sales tax area.
While I was Mayor you heard me say many times
spend your money in West Covina and we will have more tax dollars
and that is exactly where we are. We have a declining tax in revenues
but we are doing something about it. This year may not look good, next
year we hope will look better and the year after that when the proj_4ct
will be,completed we hope to be on terra firma and get back to that'�:.
• 65th-75th percentile that we had enjoyed in the past and had to go
off simply because we did not have the money to do it.
Everyone of you'that operates on a budget at home
knows when the budget is spent there is nowhere else to go and that is.
where we are at now but we are raising taxes and it looks like a tax.
increase of 18 to 20(,' at this time. Those of you who don't live in':.,:,
West Covina won't have to pay it and those of you who do will have t6
pay it. 6% is not what you deserve in my mind but 6% at the present,
time is all we can afford to pay. Bear with us. You bore with us
last year. 6% is better than nothing and there are a lot of people
still getting nothing and a lot of people are unemployed. There is..:...
still 6% unemployment and if you are one of the 6% it is a rough
place to be and if you are not then you are very very lucky and all..
of us here are. I will also cast a vote .for the 6% figure.
Mayor Young: Thank you. I think there is no question in
anyone's mind that this is indeed a difficult
and painful discussion in the situation.
1verybody :likes to be liked and that includes those of us on the
City Council and those of you out there. It does not seem possible
at this point to make everyone happy so perhaps we end up by making
everyone, unhappy but I think there is no question in everyone's mind
that a solid good faith effort is being made to make adjustments at
this time in a fair and impartial manner. I concur in many, perhaps:
most, perhaps all of the remarks by my fellow Councilmen. I would
love to go 7%% for the policeman and everyone up here joins me in
that :l' am sure. I would love to go.7%% for the firemen and I would
love to accept each and every one of the additional benefits
suggested in the two Memorandums of Understanding that -have been
presented. But this is where we get into the problem that
Ccuncil.man Lloyd and others painted out, we start differentiating
without the benefit of professional studies, we are right out in
limbo, in .pace, so to speak. I am not going to sit here and say
that policemen are more valuable than firemen, or that anyone is
more valuable than anyone else. It is'a working team and each job
has its requirements, demands, its professiI. onal capabilities in all
the professions that are represented -in this City, :.That includes
- 26
CITY COUNCIL
PRESENTATION OF' 1972-173 BUDGET
Page Twenty-seven
7/26/72
police, firemen, planning specialists, recreation specialists and what
have you. These professions charge, they do tend to upgrade
themseonves on a community -wide, state. -wide and nation-wide basis
and it is on this kind of a study and professional assistance that I
think we should have in the future. Right now we are in a new
ballgame that I don't think we all fully understand. I don't. That
is the ballgame .that the Milias Brown Act poses to us. That Act says
the ultimate payoff of the Act is everybody signs a Memorandum of
Understanding which is not binding. Well what in the world is it for;
How can ,we say any one is dealing in bad faith if you sign a non-
binding.memorandum because the ultimate burden of decision still
lies with the policy making body, which at this time is the City Council
until the legislature decides otherwise. Because we are a General Law
City and we operate under whatever authority the legislature gives..us
and they give us this authority. We are trying to react to it as
responsibly as we can. Some new proper concept in negotiations which
ties to what is happening professionally in each profession operating.,_
in the City is needed and I hope we can come quickly to that so that
i
proper. advances can be made based on professional standards and not
on smply hard core bargaining. We will then get along much better.._.:
I recall being on the Personnel Board a few
years back when we had a professional consultant make studies and
it worked very well at that time. We had hearings by employees, many
of you appeared'before that Board and we hammered things out. I am..
not aware of the City Council having to say "no" to the ultimate
recommendations until tonight and I think we are coming very close
tonight'.''
onight to what is being recommended at the moment.
• The morale, certainly of this City is of great
importance and I hope we can preserve it with the approach we are
making in an effort to deal fairly, realistically and philosophically
with you. I will go along with what has been suggested, 6/.
We do have other considerations in the Memoranal4m
o:` Understanding. I don't know if these are appropriate for discussion
at: this time but I suppose they are - Mr. Wakefield?
Mr.. Wakefield: Yes, Mr. Mayor,'they are all part of your overall
budget considerations. It seems to me it would be
appropriate.
Mayor. Young: With respect to the .Memorandum of Understanding
that has been signed by the West Covina City
Employees Association, which we loosely refer to
as the General Employees. The Memorandum relates to a further
possible: adjustment in January, depending on what happens to the cost:.
oa: living. I think the 6% factor that we are discussing here comes
C.I ose Lo; meeting this requirement and I speak for myself and of course
the I:Loor will be open to the other Councilmen. We do not desire to
continue, this program of constant negotiations with raises every six_„
months. We budget for a year and we set'a tax rate once a year and
it is extremely difficult for us and every government agency to try:.:;
and :to:Ilow the County or some other organizations that have started
the trend of twice a year adjustments, unless we go 3/ now and 3% then,
which I don't think anyone would like:
With respect to the insurance provisions provided
in the memorandum, my position is we maintain the present insurance•.,
programs and make no change. I don't know how much of that is
actually comprehended in this Memorandum at this time or how much
might be additional. I think that concludes anything I would have to
say on this particular Memorandum.
With respect to the police officers' Memorandum
of Understanding, apart from what has been stated on salary adjustments
of 6%, 1,will say that I am opposed at this time to adding additional
27 -
CITY COUNCIL
PRESENTATION OF 1972-173 BUDGET
Page Twenty-eight
7/26/72
patrolmen's steps 6 and 7. I am not saying it is precluded forever,
but in my opinion it falls within this category that requires more
professional attention and less simple hard core negotiation.
Beyond that item I find the remainder of the agreement to be satis-
factory.
Councilman Nichols: Mr. Mayor, will you enumerate those points of
request that the Council will be asked to vote on?
Mayor Young: W.C.C.E.A. - a salary adjustment of 6%; the
request to adjust between the nearest half of 1%
not to exceed a total of 21-2% at midyear, this.
is tied in with any increase in the consumer price index for the
metropolitan area that might occur between April 1, 1972 and November 1,
1972; The next item relates to two insurance provisions; one the ,City
shall pay full cost of the employee disability insurance to the limits
set forth in the proposal of the Standard Insurance Company dated
April 7, 1971. This insurance is to be made available as soon as
possible, subject to current availability of the insurance and any
elective additional options on this insurance which the Association may
recommend shall be incorporated in the policy coverage provided the
cost of.such option is fully paid bythe7employee. Also that the City
shall pay a maximum of $6.00 per month towards premium costs for
Dental insurance, plan to be jointly selected by the City and the
Association. I believe that covers everything in that particular
agreement.other than routine clauses.
The Memorandum of Understanding with the Police..
apart frcm.the salary adjustment that we have talked about, also " .
calls for the addition of two additional step positions, steps 6 and:7
for patrolmen at 2�% intervals with certain delayed provisions for
patrolmen advancing to those steps. I believe he would have to be on"
the 5th,step 3 years and then he would have to be on the 6th step 3
years before advancing upwards to the remaining step. The provision
contains"a Uniform Allowance of $160. annually for officers and
$85. .for cadets. I suppose this is at the officer's option he can
buy leather and hand goods with his Uniform Allowance if he wants to
and these items belong to the officers. The agreement also provides..
for a mi4i.mum.of.3;.hours overtime to be paid for call-back time and'
I take it if he'ls';pver.the 3 hour period he gets paid per hour.
Also _c.allsor;>3 hours minimum overtime for court time when that time
is outside, 0. Ills "regular shift. When he is called into court to
testify `if he is`;there 3 minutes or whatever he gets 3 hours. The
understanding also provides for a sick leave benefit that Association
members be paid for unused sick leave time when they terminate with..,
the City,other than by discharge and this would be as presently in
effect to.r the Miscellaneous Employees. This provision would be 50f
of all aocrued sick leave time in excess of 40 days but not over 100
days. No more than 60 days of accumulated sick leave shall be paid:.
for. 'These are the essential items in the agreement. The other items
are more, ,or less routine.
Councilman Nichols: Mr. Mayor, you have indicated your own position
on a couple of those, items but it seems to me it
would be in order for Council action on these
Memorandums of Agreement in.a formal nature tonight.. Is that -your
understanding?
Mayor Young: Oh yes, the floor is open.
Councilman Nichols: Relative to those provisions on the Uniform
Allowance, court,time, call-back time and sick
leave which are an extension of employee
benefits I`.subscribe to those in the Agreement of Understanding and
will certainly vote to implement them.
Councilman...$hearer: Mr. I,�yor, you have your third vote.
28
M
CITY COUNCIL Page Twenty-nine
PRESENTATION OF 1972-173 BUDGET 7/26/72
Councilman Chappell: I was under the impression we did this at
our last meeting?
• Mayor Young: We announced this a couple of weeks ago as a
general policy decision of council but no formal
action was taken on it.
Motion by Councilman Nichols that the Memorandum:of Understanding be
accepted with the exception of the item on insurance as requested by.
the general employee group and the midyear pay raise and with the
modification of the pay raise to 6/ for employees. Seconded by
Councilman Lloyd and carried on roll call vote as follows:
AYES: Councilmen: Shearer, Nichols, Lloyd, Chappell, Young
NOES: None
ABSENt: None
Motion by Councilman Shearer that the Memorandum of Understanding with
the West.Covina Police Officers Relief Association the item for
salaries:be changed to 6/, that the two step raise not be approved,
and all,. other items would be approved. Seconded by Councilman Chappell.
Councilman Nichols: I think I intended that my motion include this.
Mr. Wakefield: Mr. Mayor and members of Council, it was my
understanding that the first motion related to:.the
Memorandum of Understanding between the City
Manager.and the W.C.C.E.A.
• Motion carried on roll call vote as follows:'
AYES: Councilmen: Shearer, Nichols, Lloyd, Chappell, Young
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
Mayor Young: Now may we have a motion with respect to the,Vi*re
Department.
Councilman Lloyd: Mr. Wakefield, can we suggest to administration
that they negotiate?
Mr. Wakefield: I gather from the discussion of Council thus far
that Council intends to provide a 6/ raise also
for the Firemen and if that is your intent then a
6% raise for firemen could be authorized at this time.
So moved by Councilman Nichols, seconded by
Councilman Lloyd and carried on roll call vote as follows:
AYES: Councilmen: Shearer, Nichols, Lloyd, Chappell, Young
NOE5.None
AI3SENT.: None
Councilman Nichols: Mr. Mayor, I would like to offer another motion
if I may. I would move that the Council direct
the City Manager to:meet and confer with repre-.
sentatives of the Fire organization for the purpose.'of offering to them
any benefits or comparable benefits extended to the Police Officers.
Seconded by Councilman Shearer.
Mayor. Young: Does that motion over -commit the -Council budget.wise this again would be subject to Council approval?
Councilman Nichols: My attitude is if it does involve additional cost
we should be prepared to pay it, particularly in
the area of sick leave benefits, we should
certainly make that benefit available to the Fire Department as well.
29 -
CITY COUNCIL Page Thirty
PRESENTATION OF 1972-173 BUDGET
Mayor Young: I think the City Manager should meet and confer
with respect to possible additional benefits
and stop at that point.
Councilman Nichols: My response to that is one of the problems we
have been faced with is that the Council has
been giving indirection to the City Manager
and that indirection has resulted in some of the problems that we
face today. I think the Council should take a more definitive
position in indicating what it fiscally,would be prepared to do. Of'
course if you don't agree, that's fine, we just vote on it. But I
don't feel we should give some further generalized, nebulous
directive to negotiate again. I think we should indicate what we can
do and then do it.
Motion carried on roll call vote as follows:
AYES: Councilmen: Shearer, Nichols, Lloyd, Chappell, Young
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
THE CHAIR CALLED A RECESS AT 11:02 P.M. COUNCIL RECONVENED AT 11:11.P.M.
i
Mayor Young: The floor is open with respect to the proposed
1972-' 73 Budget, Mr. Wakefield, will that:.be
installed in two sections? (Answered: Yes).
Motion by Councilman Shearer to approve the 1972-173 Operating Budget
as submitted to Council tonight with the necessary revisions to cove'
. provisions for salary increases, etc., consistent with our previm s.
action.. Seconded by Councilman Lloyd.
Councilman Nichols: Mr. Mayor, I was wondering about the $5,000 figure
on the Recreation Department - the reduction -of
the Winter Program was one of the more significant
items in that list and one of our citizen's brought up this matter •this
evening and the concern was expressed that this would perhaps resul.t.'.:'
such a drastic cut back in the progra that it might come as a sudden
and rude awakening to the public. I think it would be appropriate to
perhaps .expand on that very briefly as to what elements will be cut
back in,that program.
Mr. Eliot:
Mr. Mayor and members of Council, I could expand
Controller
on the dollar amount only. The original
$5,000 leave
Winter Program was $32,265 and a reduction of
would something in excess of $27,000. The Department has
prepared contingency
plans primarily decreasing the number of locat%ons
at which.' programs would be conducted during the winter and it would be
somc.:thing like three
programs less conducted throughout the City.
Counc.i_lman Nichols:
Can you make a comparison in the 1971172 budge,t:,.; •.
with this figure?
Mr. Eliot;,
The Winter Program last year was $41,000.
�Councilman Nichols:
That is quite a reduction. I think we might want
.
to look into that again as we move into the
Winter Program.
Mayor. Young:
Of course we were presented with -a budget which
in itself must have correlated with the 1971
program and then additional funds stricken
from that.
Councilman Nichols:
That is right and that is why I thought.that.tha;s
is a substantial cut back and if we have the
capability we may want to look at it again as we
move i. n to , the fall months.
- 30 -
CITY COUNCIL Page Thirty-one
PRESENTATION OF 1972-173 BUDGET 7/26/72
Councilman Shearer: If we adopt my motion is that possible? Can we
go back and supplement, Mr. Wakefield?
Mr. Wakefield: It could only be supplemented by a budget
transfer,that is by a transfer of funds otherwise
appropriated to some other item.
Councilman Shearer: But individual Council action could supplement
that by a transfer?
Mr. Wakefield: That is correct, within the limits of the total
budget.
Mayor Young: I think some of the comments raised in discussion
in the public hearing on the overall budget might
bear some response. I certainly agree with the*
comments we are overtaxed and we all agree with that, but it is only
fair and I don't think we point it out often enough what a small
portion of our total tax dollars go to running this City. Mrs. Howard
certainly stated it very eloquently and we appreciate it very much.
I think her comments were very apropos. We.compare with the County
reduction. and if the County has somehow been able to reduce the
Welfare``rolls substantially it brings a cut in taxes and I think this
is where some major cuts have taken place. I am personally not
inclined to inquire too deeply into the matter of typewriters and that
sort of,thing. I am aware of a depreciating policy where you replace
equipment over a period of time to avoid repairs and what have you...and
I thinkthere is a program to just make it last another year unless
we get some revenue sharing from the 'Federal Government that we can do
• it with.. We have worked long and hard as a Council and I know the'
City Staff now has two or three times gone over, reviewed, sharpened:...
the pencil, tightened up and I am prepared to say a job well done,
let Is.go.
Councilman Lloyd: I concur, Mr. Mayor. I think when we get down•..:.
to the point that we as laymen who work an
average of 5 hour`s a week start looking into how.
many swimming pools, typewriters, pencils or whatever, well we have
entered,into an area that I am very sure the City Manager would be..,
delighted to turn over to us and say okay run it. But unfortunately
we just 'don't have the time and have apparently decided that is an
area that is handled by the City Administration.
Mayor. Young: Thank you. Anything further,gentlemen? Ready
for the question?
Motion carried on roll call vote as follows:
AYE'S:.,.Councilmen: Shearer, Nichols, Lloyd, Chappell, Young
NOES: _None
Af3S1:NT; None
Motion b.y Councilman Shearer to approve the Capital Improvement Budget
for 1972-'73 as submitted. Seconded by Councilman Lloyd and carried.
on roll call vote as follows:
AYES: Councilmen: Shearer, Nichols, Lloyd, Chappell, Young
NOES: None
ABSENT; None
RESOLUTION FOR Mr. Wakefield: Mr. Mayor and members of Council,
ADOPTION the purpose of the Resolution is
simply to permit the prepara-
tion of the formal amendments to the salary
Resolution which will be required to implement your action this evening.
It Simply protects the right of the City to make those adjustments
which will be incorporated in that resolution at your next meeting
in the month of .August. This resolution :permits you to make those
04ustmer�ts e f fectivp as of Tuly 1, 1972.
31 -
CITY COUNCIL
RESOLUTION FOR ADOPTION
Page Thirty -.two
RESOLUTION NO. 4604 The City Attorney presented:
ADOPTED "A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE
CITY OF WEST COVINA RESERVING THE RIGHT'
OF THE CITY TO MAKE SALARY ADJUSTMENTS
APPROVED AFTER JULY 26, 1972 EFFECTIVE AS OF JULY 1, 1972."
Motion by Councilman Chappell, seconded by Mayor Young, to waive full
reading of the body of said Resolution. Motion carried.
Motion by Councilman Shearer, seconded by Councilman Lloyd, to adopt;•
said Resolution. Motion carried on roll call vote as follows:
AYES: Councilmen: Shearer, Nichols; Lloyd, Chappell, Young
NOES• None
ABSENT: None
Mayor Young: Does anyone else want to make a speech?
Councilman Lloyd: Yes. I realize most of our people are gone but.:. -
perhaps this will filter back to them. I. think
it should be stated if we haven't stated it,
that in our discussions in there there was never a question of loyalty
or the service of any member of the City Government commencing with
George Aiassa and the extremely efficient and capable staff he has
worked into the advantagement of this City and frankly we are very
lucky to have.
Mayor Young: Thank you, Councilman Lloyd. I would state that
at the next regular Council meeting I will be on
the high seas fishing.
• ADJOURNMENT Motion by Councilman Shearer, seconded by
Councilman Nichols 'and carried, to adjourn this
meeting at 11:21 P.M.
ATTEST:
APPROVED:
AYOR
- 32 -