06-08-1972 - Regular Meeting - MinutesJune 8, 1972
The Pledge of Allegiance was recited.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Young; Councilmen, Shearer, Nichols,
Lloyd, Chappell
George Aiassa, City Manager
• Lela Preston, City Clerk
Leonard Eliot, Controller
Eliot: The budget we will be considering tonight is
the Fire Department budget. An increase of
30 thousand over last years budget. Principle
difference being in the 2 pep employees as fire men which accounts for the
20 thousand dollars of the 30 thousand dollar difference. The other 10 thousanc
is the scattered small increases threw supplies. Essentially this budget is
identical with last year, except for pep employees. The apprentice fire men
categories does indicate under your part time or limited service does
indicated an increase over last year of approximately 2 thousand. This 2
thousand will enable the Fire Department to function 1 or 2 additional
apprentice fire men. This program has the enth<;:usastic backing of the Fire
Chief in the way it has worked out in the Fire Department. Beyond that the
supplies have not varied very much.
Shearer: On object 41 considerable reduction in Fire
hydrent rentals.
Eliot: The Fire Department customarily prices out
their fire hydrents giving anticipation to
the fact that some day Surban Water Company
will put in to PUC for an increase for its fire hydrents rental rate from a
$1.50 to $2.50 and also on the premise that PUC will approve it. To date that
•has not happened now there is not a pending request to increase their rate for
fire hydrents rental. They have just recently received a rate increase. The
proceeding of PUC will conceivable take more than a year if they were to file
tomarrow. Therefore, there is no need to predicate an entire years budget
on a $2.50 rate that hasn't even been asked for.
Aiassa: They have put it in every year and when the
Surban Water Company made their preliminary
application we anticipated a rate increase
at that time we noticed that it was withdrawn. Now there is only 1 that has
official approval from PUC and thats Azusa Water. And its a small group of
the hydrent rentals that we have with the 8 water companies that service.
Lloyd: On this rate increase on the rental rate
thats merely an increase on equipment thats
already installed.
Aiassa: This is stand-by charge you pay, to keep water
in the hydrent. We pay for all hydrents in
the city a stand-by price and some are a
dollar and some $1.50 the highest we have paid is $2.50 and we were pretty
up set when they set the $2.50 rate and was surprised that the PUC granted it..
But in the arrangement that we made with Azusa Water that they will take care
of all hydrents to the street cut-off otherwise we would maintain the hydrents.
Lloyd: They are maintaining there own hydrents?
• Aiassa: They help us and assist us as far as
maintenance and up keep except for painting.
Now we have to legally maintain the hydrents
we have actually go out and paint and service them. But you actually paying
to insure that they are suppose to keep a pressure in those hydrents at all
times.
Page 2
Lloyd: And we pay that $2.50 per meter per month..
Eliot: The $2.50 as we say is only for a small
water company the rest of our rates are $1.50.
• Lloyd: How many do we have?
Eliot: 1715 hydrents.
•
Aiassa: I think we have 7 more to be added to that
figure. So I would like the council to give
me some assurance that if any water company
comes in and askes or request the PUC for a kate increase on the hydrents
rentals that they give some kind of a feeling that I can make a formal and
official protest because this can involve a lot of money.
Chappell: I think at the time that happens, Mr. Mayor,
we will certainly come forth and we don't need
a motion now do you?
Aiassa: No, I just want to give the council the
feeling because the Azusa one we didn't really
get out and make any big issues on it with
the PUC.
Shearer: What do we use to pick up for Code 3?
Aiassa:
Eliot:
up as far as I know its not the
The fire truck.
The pick up truck is not being used for code
3 its for clean up work after a fire. The
debris that has to be hauled away, cleaned
first in as far as I know.
Shearer: Under conditioning it can not be used any
longer for a code 3 vehicle: It is used for
just cleaning up debris after a fire, hauling
this away. I agree with you I didn't know what a code 3 use of a pick up
vehicle would be. Discussing with the Fire Department at the time I
discussed it with them they were talking about it being used for debris, to
clean up that they have to make after a fire.
Aiassa: I can answer the question for the council.
The exsisting vehicle has certain equipment
on it that can be utilized in an emergency
for a code 3 call. But now that we have brought up our standards and now
that we have these pumpers that actually this unit here will be used strickly
for actual policing and clean up and also for putting in securities such as
lighting and also carrying these heavy tarpens§that if a roof fire has gone
threw they do protect the house by putting over a tarpen. Actually its going
to be clean up unit.
Nichols: Perhaps I am in error if I am I would like to
be corrected if staff is in error I think
we ought to clarify it here. I don't believe
that the fire department does clean up in terms of debris and material from
• fire locations. My personal observations and experiences have not confirmed
that the fire department has any responsibility clean up and removal of any
kind of debris from a fire location. That is the responsibility of the owner
of the property. Now the use of a tarpen or other equipment that maybe needed
to achieve security I'm sure that, that is a preview of the operations of the
department. But I don't think we ought to convey that one of the responsibility
of the fire department is to clean up the fire debris from fires that occur
in the city.
Page 3
Aiassa: Well I don't want to miss lead the council
if its a small fire and its a very minute
and there is only limited ambers the police
department usually like to leave the premises in pretty neat condition and I
think you have received letters from various people that had a disaster of
• a fire and complemeting the fire department the way they left the premises.
Chappell: Could we find out when the new fire engine
is going to be delievered.
Eliot: I would estimate we are 9 to 9 months from
delievery. Account 849. I'm comparing
the budget from this year to last year 2
items should be remarked upon. One of course is the fact that the salary
difference of approximately 20 thousand dollars is here again occasioned
by federaly funded 2 additional city employees, what is called the city
yard. Its primary function is a garage area. Therefore there is a 20
thousand increase funded for the pep employees. In addition to that there
is a large decrease in supplies and services area. Some 80 thousand dollars
this is counting change not dollars that you can count. Previously been
using the city garage account as a clearing account for repairs for all
city vehicles and then charging it back to the department. For purpose
of simplification and duplication in fact we have merely charged the cost of
repairs within the department budget, that is the charges for vehicles
repair and have eliminated this from the garage account. So therefore, there
is an apparent large decrease in the budget but in effect its essentially the
same level of service and about the same real dollars as last year.
Young: These dollars are reflected elsewhere in the
budget. We are gradually working into cost
accounting.
• Eliot:
Yes, charging it to the department.
Aiassa: Now there was also a distictive drop in
worksheet 37 you notice here 71-72 we
advocated $2325 and this year we only
advocated $800. The park non -vehicle equipment is now being charged directly
to the park department.
Lloyd: I am continually confounded by the fact that
every year we find in these departments
tools we are replacing. If I am not mistaken,
Mr. Aiassa, we talk about some sort of control system where by we won't be
loosing tools.
Aiassa: Yes, we have a tool checking system and its
done with each man so many brass taps with his
number on it. And he checks out his tools
and the brass check things is given to the tool check man and he gets it back
when he gets his tool check back. Now the only ones we have not tied down
real tight is like expendable items like brooms and schokals and things
like that. Normally we request them to bring the old one in and we replace
it with a new one. But: any of the expensive wrenches and all of the others
are actually tied in. Now I requested the controllers office to do a
surprise inventory un=beknown to anybody and it was surprisingly that
• everybody checked out.
Lloyd: In otherwords this just represents breakage?
Aiassa: Thats right.
Shearer: Notice in personnel you have here first
dispatcher. Is that by any chance be a radio.
Page 4
Aiassa: Yes, its a carry over from our old system.
And he does more than just dispatching work.
His job is coordinator of work load and work
proceedures. He is in radio contact with the formans and lead men and he
actually coordinates the one operation because that was on that we evaluated
to slip into central communications. We found out dollar wise that it was
• not economical to over load the center with kind of a service that had
speciality of its own. During in emergency period during rain and storm
the commuications center would be bogged down *ith nuisance calls where this
could be dispatched and handled directly from the control center which is
the commuication center. The system is very simple and not complex. How
many radios do we have?
Eliot: This is both street and park vehicles that
are equiped with radios. The man is not a
full time dispatcher he does not sit there
and just do dispatching. He is a clerk warehouseman as well as a dispatcher
it is local government frequency that he broadcasts on and it is the radio
contact between park and recreation vehicles and street vehicles back to the
city yard.
Aiassa: And he also handles any immediate emergencies
such as branches from streets that fall
across park ways or dirve ways he also if there
is any cave ins or anything like that he makes sure the equipment goes out
and right equipment goes out and the right care is taken. And after 13 years
of operation it is the same man we hired 13 years ago and I say he is one
of the most consentaneous people we have down there and he does more than his
share of the other work than just control and dispatching.
Young: Any further question from the council on 849
• city yard.
Eliot: 851 Recreation and Park. This budget is
almost a duplicate of last year again the
service level is being approximately
maintained at last years level. The employees salaries are slightly less
than last year because of changes in positions more people are working at
lower end of the range, salary range than at the high range. So actually
there has been a slight drop of about $1,000 a little less than $1,000 in
salaries and it reflects the total change in the budget. This is really
your administrative staff for both recreation and park.
Young:
Eliot:
the general fund tax
tax is separated from
limit as -you probably
general fund does.
Young:
Eliot:
•
Young:
This source of funds, park funds, we don't
have a park tax as such do we.
Yes, we do, are approximate park tax it
varies from year to year because we actually
levy the park tax every year the same as
based the approved expenditures for that year. A park
the general fund tax and it can be levied without
know. It does not have the dollar limit as the
You could have a 20 dollar park tax.
Yes, not recreation just parks, are present
tax rate for the park tax is almost 18�.
And that produced 24 thousand dollars.
Page 5
Eliot: Well more than you're looking at the
administration part. We divide half to park
and half to recreation so half the money is
coming from the park fund and half from the general fund. If you go forward
to 853 which is actually the parks themselves the entire park budget is funded
•from the park fund as well. So were talking about 250 thousand from the
park fund.
Young: I would suppose we would have a more accurate
picture of Park and Recreation if these 2
budgets were combined.
Aiassa: Its kind of a hard thing to divide because
they are both a little different function.
One is leadership and actually activity
program and the other one if facility and park ways and parks.
Chappell: Item 37 there was a request for purchase of
film do we have some other place where we
are getting this film and having it developed.
I know they take pictures are they doing it out of there own pocket or what?
Eliot: Now we have film in a central area in the
public service director office and we merely
just instructed them they probably were not
aware of it there is a central place where they can get it. And for control
purposes we prefer having film in one place.
Lloyd: Mr. Aiassa, I concur with the remarks of the
Mayor that this thing is so from end to
the other that I can't tell which is parks
• and which is recreation.
Eliot: Could I respond to that because it is budget
putting it together. Parks first of all
supported by a separate tax rate.
Lloyd: Your taking 20 thousand dollars from gas
tax now that gas tax means that something else
is not receiving the 20 thousand dollars. Is
that correOt?
Eliot: As we said at our last meeting that quite
true that our construction amounts will decline
by the amount of money you put into maintenance
and maintenance by definition have been expanded to include street trees and
median strips so therefore the money we expended to maintenance of our median
strips decreases the amount of money available for construction of streets.
Lloyd: I want it understood that I approve most
heartily, congradulation on use of this money
so we are not blocked in the having to seal
streets that don't really need it when in reality we need the money on the
maintenance of our median strips. Does that mean then that 20 thousand dollars
that was originally budgeted is that going to the recreation areas now?
• Eliot: No, it reduced your over-all tax rate by
requireing that much money required to be
raised by your park fund. In other words
your park fund is not a statistic rate in other words we don't levy 18�
every year, because we levied the same the year before. As stated when we
first started out the tax rate is levied based on the needs for the Park
Department so what ever absorb into gas tax funds we relieve the amount of
pressure on the park fund therefore it decreases the amount of that rate
therefore you total tax rate is lower if its possible to shift more to the
gas tax.
Page 6
Lloyd: I understand that the only thing I am saying
is this. I don't think you have enough money
in recreation.
Aiassa: Well, the answer we are trying to provide
you is that if we are lucky on the Mills Bill
passes, thats another story, also were
faced with 400 thousand dollar funding deficit and also were trying to
maintain an over all type of equable services. Now in certain areas we had
to reduce certain basic operations where we subsidized different types of pro-
grams. But the area we can not deminish on is where the area you have now
resummed the responsibility such as the parkway trees and the median strips
and things like that.
Lloyd: Are you telling me that if we come right
down to it we will have to cut recreation
before we do something about those median
strips.
Aiassa: Well, if we were not able to take the 20
thousand dollars from the gas tax funds
which was permitted to this, we might have
to reduce some park activities. We would have to reduce the levels of service
that we would provide in parks unless you wanted to raise levels of service
that we would provide in parks unless you wanted to raise the 18� tax rate.
Lloyd: I would appear to me that the emphasis would
be in the recreational areas if there was a
priority. I recognize that we may be at a
point where we can't maintain everything that we are doing now. I accept
that, these things happen and certainly you haven't created the situation
•any more than I have created the situation but I think we are really down
to the point where this council ought to review something on a policy level,
making a decision where they want the emphasis.,-,
Aiassa: Well thats very true and I think you got ---to
visualize and understand in the last 5 or 7
years we have actually tripled the need and
care of parks facilities because 2 years ago we had very little expense as
far as parks were concerned because we were limited as far as the parks were
fully improved. We also did not get into the operation to parkway median
strips maintenance. Now these were brought up as incidentals now were going
to have another jolt and that is when the state division of highways finishes
the freeway there going to look at us and say there are certain areas the city
will have to absorb and maintain.
Lloyd: Have we signed an agreement in regard to
that? We already have.
Aiassa: Yes
Lloyd: In otherwords thats not a debateble point.
We accept that. So the cost of maintenance
of our parks is going to go up as a result of
the widening of the freeway. Does that mean that those moneys that go into
the maintenance of these park areas the state has decreed or we have agreed
to take over is that money going to come out park and recreation alone.
• Aiassa: The answer on that one would be is that these
areas would be benefited as long as there are
tied in with street right of way.
Young: You are not answering the question.
Lloyd: Thats true.
Page 7
Aiassa: Well, I am trying to answer the question
on the basis that if they are tied in
strictly as a park itself then we will have
to raise funds to service thoughs areas, but if there tied in with the
street right of way or tied in with a frontage road alignment then we can use
•gas tax funds for those -a",.
Lloyd: In otherwords a potential source of money
the maintenance of the park area which are
created as a result of the widening of the
freeway can be gas tax money. We are coming to a point where the trees and
grass are taking more priority than people. And I am offended by this.
Aiassa: Lets answer your question in a different
direction. We have spent time to reduce
the amount of time and effort that it takes
to maintain these areas. As you notice the original parkways we had
mannual sprinkler systems now we have automatic systems. Parks is the same
way when I came here we had 2 or 3 men that would go out with hoses to
irrigate the parks. But we are coming to a point where some of the facility
and one of the areas is Cameron Park is the irrigation system has been in
there for 20 years. What we are trying to do is program at least as much
greenery in park area at the most reasonable price.
Lloyd: Isn't really possible that we could separate
recreation and park. Would this in fact
reflect really what we are doing instead
of using this thing as a lump thing and we are shifting back and forth.
Wouldn't we really be better off.
Aiassa: No, because they are techincally separated
• right now because of the park tax. But the
two go hand in hand and thats why we have
a joint position with park and recreation director so that we don't over
flop to the left or flop to the right.
Lloyd: Do you maintain records of the usage of the
parks.
Aiassa: The records are very complete and thorough
as far as recreation usage of facilities.
But the actual usage of the parks is not
been in exsistance and usage for very long. The statics are not going to
be very valid.
Lloyd: Would I know for instance that Sunday that
Galster Park has 22 people in it? Would I
know that Cortez Park in the little leagues
had a participation of 5 teams and 100 people in the grand stands.
Aiassa: The statics probably on the little league
you would be able to accummulate but the
usage of parks is very variable. You have
organized.pick-nick groups you have kids playing hand -ball or something like
that You have people just walking.
Lloyd: If someone was playing hand -ball would I
• have anyway of knowing number 1 how many
people were there and number 2 if those
people were residents of the city of West Covina.
Aiassa: No, and as a matter of fact once you have
made a public park its going to be rather
difficult..... .
Page 8
Lloyd: I'm not worried about that and I'm not even
advocating that, Mr. Aiassa, I was -just
wondering if there are activities where in
we can determine are people members and how many people are participating
and indeed if they are from the city. I don't even object to people out
•side the city using the facilities but I think these things we might like
to know because we are spending our dollars for it. What I'm really getting
down to. Are we really is 1 person getting 1 dollar worth of recreation and
park usage and what I'm really maintaining and the question I'm really
asking is 1 are we giving sufficient amount of money to the recreation
activities and I am motivated towared those areas as I think some of the other
councilmen are since they participate in various areas of recreation
activities and 2 are we giving any porportion and too.:much money to Parks.
I'm for parks and I'm for green belts and I'm for all these things I'm for
everything and I want to lower the taxes and want to have better facilities
and I want to have increase of salaries to the people to employees of this
city. And I also know I don't have the money to do this. And thats what we
are talking about right here. And what I'm saying for the money spent I
would like to have more assurance not because you are doing it right, because
you are you do a great job. But that we are really getting to the reduced
level of money. We are really putting the money were we as a group trying
to legislate or lead in this city really want it. Now if its parks dandy,
but if it really isn't parks may be the people and youngsters who don't have
jobs, say, I'm sorry if the grass whithers a might I'm ready to accept that
if I can have a youngster who doesn't take dope. And thats really what I'm
down too. I want to make sure in my own mind as one legislature here is
doing this.
Young: I agree with councilman Lloyd that certainly
as he dicusses the matter of priorities. I
wonder sometimes about the priority park
• level verses these beautiful grounds that surrounds this building, which have
nothing but visual impact for us. The fountain out here that is basically
hidden from public view. All of the lovely grounds now that you can only
look at. After a period of time we might develop into a lower maintenance
by installation of different type greenery on it that wouldn't require as
much maintenance as we do now.
.Aiassa: You're going to face this in the early
development of any regional areas of parks,
because the early planting and the survival
of plants are so hazardours. With in 3 or 5 years in the maintenance and up
keep of grounds is going to be small in porportion to what you are paying now.
Because the growth will be reasonably strong enought to survive the least
amount of maintenance. What we are trying.to do and we are constantly
working on it is low, low, maintenance. 'Now when you get into the recreation
this is man power and this is salary. Now Russ Nichols is probably well
versed on the winter program and summer program and we get difference of
opinion on how these programs take place and how many people we serve. But
in one way you listen to the recreation people and they say we prevent crime
and you listen to the police department and they say no you just provide a
facility where they can congregate. But one way or the other the facility
is there. I have watched in 13 years that I've been here, when I came here
there were patches and 5 parks they had no curbs.or gutters, but I would say
even at that time we were getting alot of calls to get rid of that weed
patch and take that sign down, future park and make it into a park. We
• have made some real progress because I think in a few school areas we removed
the fences. We don't have a barrier between school grounds and city grounds.
Now eventually if the school grounds become abanded, this is another area
we can go into this kind of youth recreation and other programs that you
mentioned. Because right now we are short of building facilities.
Page 9
Lloyd: Last Sunday I was playing there was 20 people
in the gymnasium. One of the people came
by and they had been told by the parks and
recreation people that they were going to close these gyms because they didn't
have enough money for the summer. And I'm sure that it didn't come from
you and I'm sure that the information wasn't correct. I'm equally sure I'm
•going to do with in my power and I'd like to think the council felt the same
way, keep these gyms open particularly during the summer months. I recognize
there is a balance. You can't have all the grass green and you can't have
all the kids in there own recreational activity. I know that. All I'm saying
at this point is that we get our priorities in line.
Shearer: I would personally feel that the heat
generated from a tax increase to keep the
parks green would be far less generated
than a dead park. Maintenance of landscaping is extremely expensive. If
you plant that and then you let it die man your in trouble. You close the
gym, your going to generate a lot less public reaction than if you let
1 park die. I'm in favor of both and I would prefer to stand the heat of
tax increase than I would to close the gyms or let the weeds grow whether
it be median strips or what. Once we have spent the money whether it be
this council or past council to develop grass into Azusa or Sunset or Cortez
or Galster Park I think we owe it to continue that maintenance.
Lloyd: I agree with you 100% and I think your
observation are certainly well taken but I
think we don't have to create a new mound
or tree something thats going to grow and take over water we can hold down
on that until we see the financial capabilities. Which is really what we are
talking about here.
• Chappell: Closing gyms this itn`'t even our jurisdiction.
Thats a school district jurisdiction. We have
an agreement but theres no financial. That
school can't pay the electricity and can't pay custodian and things like that,
you're going to have to work a little closer with them to see that they don't
close these gyms.
Lloyd: Were at that point.
Chappell: I havn't heard the Mayor or the City Manager
bring that up at as a problem. If there is
one a committee should be appointed to work
with staff and well I'm not aware of it if it is, lets put it that way. I
don't think those gyms should be closed during the summer, but I know what
the school districts are saying, they are laying off 93 people. And alot of
them are maintenance people. So we better get some liasion going so we don't
find them shut down and are people have no place to go to play. Because those
kids really turn out at the gyms in the summer. Not just 20 old men. Alot
of big numbers go over there in the afternoon.
Nichols: I sort of feel I have been excersing extreme
restraint from my normal attitude but I would
like to strike at the heart of what I think
is the concern of it being expressed at this budget review. We've gone threw
a number of departments now we are approaching the end and staff has come to
us with a basic theme that this departments budget is essentially as it was
• last year and this departments budget is essentially as it was last year and
etc. And this is I think a reasonable response by management to the inherit
pressures as they exsist in each department that at least attempts to
maintain its own thrust and budget proportion in reguard to the cities total
expenditures. And yet as these items have come before us and number have
come up with we are in bad.•shape financially things are tight and maybe we
are really at the point were we need to re -order some of our priorities.
Page 10
Maybe we should really be saying is it essential that each and every
department stay at its level. I don't have the answer but as times change
conditions change and there are times when some departments may not be able
to justify this same type and same cost of programing that they have been
offering. I would only give you 1 example and I recognize that maybe sort
of treading in the area of a scared cow. It maybe focusing in very narrow
Wpectrume thats not justified but as I left my school this afternoon at
quarter to 4. There were 2 recreation leaders on the grounds of my school.
For what is termed general recreation. Now were not talking about the fall
team sports, were talking about general recreation. The assistant recreation
leader a girl was sitting on the back of the cafeitorium stage all by herself.
The recreation leader was out on the ground by the basket -ball court
talking to 2 boys and there wa 1 other child on the school grounds. There
were 3 children present in large numbers of the students were leaving the
campus to go to other schools to participate in organized sports activities
in connection with some of the leagues. Now these leagues have expanded
greatly over the past decade and they occupy a great•deal of time of the
children. These are coordinated by the recreation department buy largely
maned by volunteer groups in our community. It seems for example in this
one area alone we maybe approaching the point in our community where we may
say that in terms of the demands upon us in recreation and parks, in fact,
it is more important to have a gym open for 20 or 25 people than to have 2
recreation leaders on a school grounds visting with 3 or 4 children. Now
when the reports come in from these people a child comes on the ground and
they mark them down as a participate the child does to the lavatory, comes
out and they mark .them down again. And you often times get generalized
recreational activities. You simply send the recreation supervisor out and
that person has a invest interest in up holding and supporting these counts.
What we really need is someone not of the recreation department perhaps to
begin crusing about and looking at some of our play grounds.
• Young: Alright is there further comment. I would
like to suggest this that all of the comments
that are made seem to lend importance to
bringing in broader citizen im-put into this process. I have been talking
about it now for, I've talked about it to Mayor Chappell, and I would suggest
a sub -committee of the council. Perhaps my self and coucilman Lloyd to meet
and confer further in this philosophical area of priorities and try to
present it to the council in a proposal which would bring us some citizen
participation which would certainly give a take off point in the very near
future hopefully within the next few weeks.
Shearer: Not to throw any cold water Mayor Young, but
I think looking over the last city
recommendation the city would be bankrupt.
Young: I don't think you're waters cold its a little
luke warm maybe but its certainly a worthy
warning that what might happen now we had
a suggestion presented to us and I think that you presented Chet for example
some bond issues of financing of needed capital improvements and I'm sure
that we all would go along with that if the public wants it and votes it in
the knowledgeable fashion. Then this would be a grand thing for us to do. I
know what I have in mind is certainly, I think its been expressed here. If
we have a basis of consent in the community to develop something we might
call pie in the sky now like a Civic recreational center include an
auditorium or the further development of some our parks. If that area of
• consent is here we could determine that threw citizens group. But I think
and equaly more important rightnow directly with what councilman Lloyd has
brought up and others have more or less seconded, I think it would be great
assistance to us in assessing priorities that now exsist the over view which
Russ Nichols speaks of here which can be a great help to us in determing
whether there is real validity to Russ's remarks or whether there isn't validity
to these remarks. I think your warning is well taken at the same time.
Page 11
Shearer:
committees, rather than pot -luck
to Jim if you appoint people en
a pavillion you're going to get
• balanced group of people.
I guess what I am saying is that when these
committees are made I would hope some
consideration is made to the make up of these
saying your a good man. With all due respect
the committe all like Jim who wants to build
a pavillion. Hopefully there will be a
Chappell: You have to be careful of that councilman
Shearer. I had a group of citizens looking
into the auditorium and a number of them
who flat out didn't want it but theywere willing to look at it and that shot
down that dommittee pretty fast. So we really didn't get into the depth of it.
I don't know how you can hand pick them because you think you are getting
people who have open minds and will change if they get proven wrong, but
I don't think they really come out that way. You have a hard time changing
your opinion once you have made up your mind.
Eliot: 851 was the budget you just completed which
was not the Parks but the administrative
part of Park and Recreation.
Shearer: Object worksheet 61.
Aiassa: We have put this off for about 3 years and
one of the reasons was that we though we
would de -centralize of the recreation and
park department but it was found out experiencing a divided situation when
they were in the old building. I worked very inconvienently. And we have
now taken over there conference room. The thought we had was to move the
credit Union over and utilize the wall and just expand the facility for those
•people in that office. There will be quite a bit of research and before
that money will be spent it will be brought to the council.
Chappell: So you won't be able to do it this year.
Aiassa: Thats right.
Nichols: Doesn't $525 seem like a tremendous amount
for a new typewriter? I just have been
looking up models and types of various
machines trying to get one myself, for the school and it just seems like
$525 is a couple of hundred dollars above what a pretty good electric typewriter
should run but again maybe I'm uninformed. Eliot is that a standard pride?
Eliot: No, for a standard IBM electric typewriter that
is 10 per cent below list price which is the
If you are GSA price the government price that we do get.
y paying less than that you are undoubetly getting some typewriter
other than IBM and then we run into the whole problem why do we get IBM.
But it is a problem we could get some other brand perhaps at a savings. We
Have standarized IBM over the years in the city and we have run into all
kinds of problems as far as typewriter ribbons and service men and everything
else. IBM is the typewriter and it is the price we are getting 10 per cent.
It is the best price they are giving.
• Lloyd: Russ, we pay over that price. I have all
IBM selectrics in my office we just standarized
on that so were paying more than this.
Aiassa: I would like to answer the question a little
further. We did quite a bit of research
analysis when we were,in the old building
and we had 12 different model typewriters. I found out that unless you buy
a standard typewriter that the maintenace and up keep was kinda neglected on
a few and then also you have each secretary desiring a different type or
different brand. Now what we normally do is we concentrate on the areas that
Page 12
do the greatest amount of typing. My secretary's machine she had it for
11 years and When another department buys anew machine we replace those
machines that are at high peak use and make the top performance. The older
models are brought down to the departments that are not at max use. The
brand new machine may not end up in this department. The first 5 years I
•was here I think I replaced 12 or 15 typewriters because one of the companies
that sold them weren't avaliable anymore for service so we had no contact
outside and I think the other is that we don't allow the secretaries to have
perference because if you do we end up with all kinds of makes and models.
And this way if a typewriter has to be transfered it can be inter -changed.
Young: Is there further question on 851?
Eliot: 853 is the parks budget. You will note
there is a. slight increase over last year.
This made up again by pep employees. In
fact the number of employees, the total salaries including pep funds and city
funds amount to an increase over last year of 32 thousand dollars. Which
accounts for the entire increase in this budget. Materials and services
are pretty much along last years level. This of course includes parks as
you know the parks themselves but it also includes the maintenance of the
median strips and the frontage read. The median strips are maintaned by our
maintenance men which is relatively high labor because you can't use.the
gang mowers or anything of that sort on them. The median strips are covered
completely by gas tax. The rest of the park fund goes strictly for the use
within the parks themselves. This takes care completely of Parks and
Recreation is found in separate budget.
Aiassa:
•debateable item whether we
some analysis made.
Young:
Aiassa:
Young:
Aiassa:
There is one item on your park budget thats
on C and thats the park forman. Three years
we did have a park forman and it became a
should have a park forman. So there going to be
put in some over time in parks or
care. But its rather low as you
How do we reduce overtime by almost half.
Park of this is done by automatic sprinklers
also substituting part time labor during
the summer time where it was quite an item.
We might be picking this up in pep employees.
Yes, most of this part time work we still
have some areas that have not been able to be
serviced by automatic systems. And we also
something like that, that needs immediate
notice we cut off approximately $300.
Eliot: It might be some interest to the council that
when we first met with recreation department
heads on their budget, the management had
proposed a stiffer cut in recreation budget than what you see here tonight.
And it was upon the recommendation of the department itself that more of the
cut be born by parks than by recreation. You will notice that there were
cuts made in account 21. This was at the recommendation of the department
heads themselves. There will not be quite a green of plants this year
•because the fertilizer has been cut. We are fertilizing only 2 times this
year instead of 3.
Aiassa: We aloud the park director who has had the
greatest amount of experience in the
operations of the 2 departments. We do now
have better chemicals what we call concentrated fertilizers.
Page 13
Young: How much deuplication is there. We have
recreation and park administration, parks,
then we have open space maintenance.
Aiassa: If you look at the break down sheet it shows
• where they are charged out. One the C
summary portion of the salary.
Young: Further question on the park budget from the
council. 855 unless there is a late question
that pops up here.
Shearer: Anybody got there tax bill yeti. -down there
for maintenace.
Aiassa: They must have got it because some of them
were in there in December.
Eliot: The first tax bill was received in November
for payment on December 10. Undoubetly there
are people who have received that bill.
Shearer: Did you hear any adverse comments.
Aiassa: Just one. A water problem. Lela have you
received any. (no)
Young: This is still somehwat of an experimental
budget isn't?
Aiassa: Open space maintenace districts are now
• springing out threw out California.
Young: Experimental in terms of are own experience
and are own open space maintenance districts.
Aiassa: Yes, were going to have to pilot this one,.
As the growth develops and the vegitation
gets hold you will see a mark change.
Young: Then we could reduce".- the maintenance,tax.
Aiassa: Then we are faced with vandelizem.
Eliot: The tax levy will vary of course depending
on the number of homes are built in this
district. The more homes the lower per unit.
At the same time the other way that the developer did give us a subsidy last
year. And we don't know if anything he will contribute this year.
Young: We had 37 thousand last year.
Eliot: We had a total budget of 37 thousand dollars
last year where out of which 29 thousand
dollars was born to the developer and
85 hundred was assessed to the home owners.
• Young: Alright, we have break down as to what
actually came in.
Eliot: We will have that when we collect all the
taxes for this year. We have 95 per cent
probably except for deliquents.
Page 14
Young:
Aiassa:
• Young:
Lloyd:
Aiassa:
We may have balancing one way or the other:
The key is thatthis money is ear marked on
a special account. It just stays and next
year there will be a balance to help us.
Any further questions?
Mr. Aiassa, why isn't this included in the
parks thing?
The reason we keep it a separate accounting
control is that this is separate on tax bill
and we have to.
Eliot: 856,new open space maintenance district.
Its basically the same as the one we just
talked about except that it is small
because of the fact it just started. 862 is recreation which is funded from
the general fund. Recreation has suffered a slight decrease over last years.
It amounts to something like 12 thousand decrease. And the decrease is
primarily with the salary category. The recreation department relys heavily
on part time help to carry on its programs and the primary cut is serving
2 areas a very slight adjustment within recreation full°time people but the
majority from the part time people. The impact is best seen with the winter
recreation program. The decrease there is 9 thousand dollars within the
winter programs. The summer program has been maintained on the same level
as last year. So therefore the impact is in the winter program.
Lloyd: We have less.people in the winter than in the
summer. We have a reduction of people in
• our recreation areas.
Eliot: I'm saying that compares this winter program
to the one proposed to the coming winter
program there is a reduction in the winter
program. We will have less play grounds open is the idea.
Chappell: Covina closed a school or two and West Covina
that should certainly do something.
Aiassa: We evaluated where the action is and I think
Russ Nichols hit it pretty much on the head.
We had a limitation of 13 or 15 of any
programs dropped below that figure, after a certainl period of time was
evaluated. It was then decided whether or not to continue or to find out what
was wrong. And I think we have reduced the number of schools participated with
a lesser 12 or 13 children that were actually active,in that program.
Young: Worksheet 47 are we just getting free use of
,employees cars.
Aiassa: 47 is milage allowances for private cars.
Young: I notice it is 0 in the past. There's $126
requested and 0 allowed.
• Eliot: This is not going from park to park usually
just going to 1 park or location. There is
occasional times when they have to go from'
park to park as I understand it. We do not ply --them for:this incidental
milage. This is thb first time this request has been made by the recreation
department. To pay this milage they are talking about 7 employees at $15
per month we do have vehicles avalable with in poll cars and within park and
recreation for any sustained use or people who have to come back at night
and supervise.
Page 15
Shearer: Having children that participate in a
number of the recreation activities and also
neighbors and friends I sense that all large
organizations there is quite a variety. I hear things like today during track
.recreation leader X spent sometime talking to recreation leader Y who happen
to be male and female combination and we just ran around the school yard.
When I bear this quite frequently I begin to wonder is'there an area here
where supervision is lacking.
Young: Is there further comment?
Eliot: The next account 865 is our swim pool
jointly used with West Covina Unified School
District.
Shearer:; Where is there money I don't see it.
Aiassa: On revenues.
Eliot:
We haven't put those down there as yet we
put those in revenues up front rather than
funding it. We showed it as a reduction
of expenditures and we put it
in revenues up in the beginning of the budget.
Young:
Are you inquireing a part from the general
fund revenues?
Shearer:
Yes, the general fund of last year was 5
thousand dollars from West Covina Unified
School District. I wonder are we being.
generous or ----
• Eliot:
We shifted to show as revenue fund because
the abatement from other school areas or
County were becoming a littler cumbersome
to show. We thought it would
be better to show everything under revenes
that comes into the city. So
therefore under revenue by source and fund
of your summary budget we find
that we did indicate under 555.3 4 thousand
dollars in anticipated revenue
from the school district. They will be
paying there fare share.
Young: Revenues from the poll itself that just
goes into the general fund.
Eliot: Yes, so therefore the budget is approximately
the same as last year. The staffing is the
same and there is going to be slight reduction
of service less hours in the winter time.
Young: Alright, are there further question on 865
swimming pool?
Eliot: 870 is Woodside Water Company.
Young: Do we have to start making payments for that
water system this year?
• Eliot: No, we have another year of grace.
Young: So you are looking for a 39 thousand dollar
surplus in the account.
Page 16
Eliot: Yes, we will be building up some surplus in
there. To be used at the descretion of the
council. To buy capital equipment of needed
or to hold it for our payments that will be coming due. Of the revenue 88
thousand would be water meter revenues and the balance of the funds would be
coming from $12000of fees of charges from meter installation or contractor
iand 21 thousand dollars would still be coming from U-mark. That 21 thousand
dollars would be added to our exsisting ovligation to pay future water
revenues. And we do have our foregiveness clause if at the end of 30 years
in total if we have not paid it off from water revenues, what ever remaining
obligation would be cancelled.
Young:
Aiassa:
Chappell:
Eliot:
to be included in our regualr
miss it. I will in the final
personnel insurance. It was
else.
Shearer:
Aiassa:
Young:
Eliot:
Young:
benefits we pay
actually what I
inthe city? -
Eliot.
Aiassa:
centage.
• El iot
We don't need to particularly accumulate
against future payments.
The reason it is good to have reserve is that
sometimes we have minor :-a,or secondary changes
that have to be done.
Will somebody explain to me item 24.
I think what happened here is that this budget
was prepared quite late and by itself. By
our water department and they were two late
budget and they wanted to make sure we didn't
budget transfer it. I M put the rest of
just the last thing coming in far after everything
Are we set up County wise so we can isolate
the cost of retirement, medical, etc.
If your indering that the total charge of the
employee is which includes tetirement we
take that as a total charge.
When we get these figures just for example
maintenance on worksheet C 5040 for 6 months.
Is that 5040 include the side benefits.
Thats just salary it self.
Generalizing the question a little more. Is
there a per tentage that you figure to add to
the cost of each employee for those additional
for. My secretary I figure if I add about 12 per cent to
give yer, thats what she cost me. Whats the per tentage here
If are employee is sick
Are per centage is much higher, 33% figure is
what we use. Including all benefits.
Let me make one statement to the council to
break down one employee by class. The main
thing we try to do is block out the per
that is charged against that employee.
That would conclude the operting budget and
capital improvement would be the only item
left for the council to review tonight, so
if you are on your summary budget just turn to the very last page. We have
it divided between general government, public safety and public works. The
first category of general government pay those obligations that we do have
outstanding or will have outstanding within this year.
Page 17
Nichols: Do we have a lease payment on parking
structure that would come due during the
fiscal year 72-73.
Aiassa: Yes.
SNichols: I thought always a year elapsed from the
time of construction till the first payment
was due.
Eliot: This is based as you know on the revenue
from the County for lease of space. County
will not pay for lease of space till it is
constructed.
Nichols: So probably this won't come due during the
fiscal year.
Aiassa: Matter of fact what is going to happen is
this money is going to be used to pay back
bond issue.
Nichols: We have approached the point if I understand
it correctly that at some council meeting or
special budget hearing that soon upon to be
upon us that we called early the nitty=gritty of what were gaced with. It
seems to me of course that choices... -we -have are between raising additional
revenues by 1 or several devices or reducing further a budget that appears
to me to be extremely strengent in many, many ways. I would like to suggest
to the council that one approach we might use that would be meaningful to us
in these issues would be to take a look at what the city manager would
•recommend to the council as a budget if the council were to say to the city
manager that we want a balanced budget with no increase with any taxes of any
kind. What we would have to have first of all is another look at this budget
by the city manager and his statement to the council or his recommendation to
the council as to what would be necessary and in what areas he would
recommend"as'cuts. necessary to provide a balanced budget. If we could see
what the city manager in his very best judgement would recommend is the
necessary cuts to provide a balanced budget. Then I think we would be in a
better position as a council to evaluate those elements that we could not
except as responsible representatives of the community. So it seem to me
the next logical step would be for management to pick and choose the budget
and tell us what cuts they would recommend if in fact a balanced budget
could be achieved. With out that I think we councilmen are going to be
shooting in the dark and hitting here and there. Where we really don't know
where the greatest harm will result from cuts and here and there. I would
at least offer the motion to ge it on the floor that the council direct the
city manager to make recommendation to the council that would enable the
council if it so choose to come up with a balance budget 1972-73. With
exsisting revenue structure.
SECONDED
Young: I think your point is extremely well taken.
Nichols: I don't want A brand new budget and I don't
think any of us want that. I think that what
we would like to see is simply that what Mr.
. Aiassa would propose if there was no more money and no more way to get any
money and we were going to be required to live with exsisting revenues. I
would only seek a summary where these major cuts would come from. He has said
to us that to maintain a balance budget for another year with no additional
revenues would require a cut in services. We all I think recognize heavily
in the personnel area and only in much lesser sense in the area of supplies
and typewriters and that sort of thing. We are all realistic to know that
you don't pull very much money out a multi -million dollary budget by cutting
back further on supplies or capital out lay because we can all see that
these area are so small that they are not really sufficient to the total
budget. We are talking about basic services to the city.
Page 18
Young: I suppose that I basically go along with
what you say councilman Nichols. You
mention a reduction in basic services but
you made a key question a few minutes ago. The amount of money for example
that go in off side training which may be fairly sufficient amount. These
*are items, luxory items and they are small perhaps I can do with out meals
at the cities expense and I'm sure we all can, for example. Small item I
don't particularly, I would like trimming the first ounce of fat before we
get into service.
Nichols: I concur whole heartily I only wanted to
indicate that the city manager has cuts in
this budget will mean taking services away
from the public and I believe that to be true.
Chappell: I think thats right but we are talking over
400 thousand dollars. Even if you cut out
all those things that we talking about they
may add up to 1000 to 2000 dollars. But they all should be looked at and I
agree. Were talking about reducing services. We reduced 18 or 21 positions
last year. Were talking about the same thing all over again. And thats were
we are 400 thousand dollars deficit is a 40� tax increase no matter how you
slice it, or something similar to that raising all kinds of taxes in the city.
I think thats-the way were going to have to approach it. If we feel things
are important enough like police car then we are going to have to back it up
with some kind of a tax increase. Its not going to be easy and its not
going to be pleasant. I see Covina just went threw there budget and there
holdings tight, they don't have any problems it looks like.
Lloyd I think that everyone has really articulated
• the problems. •I think the City Manager has
presented a extremely fine budget and I have
to say just off hand I don't think there is any fat here. I think that what
has been pointed out that your down to a point where your going to cut. I
think were down to making a determination of what do we want 85 hundred
dollar secretaries thats really what were doing. Were down to a point where
we either raise the taxes and say to the citizens gee were really sorry but
were going to raise the taxes or we say to the employees gosh we are really
sorry you've really.been loyal, faithful, kind and true but we have arrived
at the point where we are going to dispense with your services. Either that
or they say we don't want anymore -money. I hayen't:heaid that kind of a
combination and I think thats where we'really are. We are down to the point
where you raise taxes or cut services or eliminate personnel. Its not a very
pleasant thing I think this is one of the things all of us faced when we
agreed we would try to provide some leadership in the community as a result
of the past and recent election of 2 years ago. Were faced with our
responsibilities as local legislatures and were going to have to make a
decision. Do you want to raise taxes. I think frankly the city manager has
given it to you cold turkey. I don't think there is any fat left here I
really don't. I think this is it he is saying if you want to keep it balanced
very tightly this is it. We might have recreation were only 3 kids are
being served and here I've been screaming bloody murder about re-orintation
of priorities and I want those gyms open. And I really do. IAm not
dis-honest about it. I'm willing to scarifice to achieve that I really believe
its important to our community. What were saying gentlemen and Russ already
said it, we are down to the point where the cutting is fine and going to
have to make some decisions thats going to make somebody un-happy: 'If we
raise taxes the taxpayers are un-happy. If we say cut services the people
who are trying to provide those services are going to find these professional
standards being cut and their going to be un-happy. And if we say kiss some
of the girls and boys good-bye were going to have people who are not going
to be working un-happy. What were going to decide is who's going to be
un-happy and how much.
Page 19
Young: I would like to see one thing perhaps we
could call for this question on the first
motion and then make that comment. Are you
ready for the question on the motion its been moved and seconded the city
manager review the budget and present to the council areas where cuts could
be made or where he would recommend making cuts in order to present a balance
budget in the base of projection revenues as matter now stand. All in
favor say I (I) opposed (none) so carried. Would the 15th of June, would
that be ample time Mr. Aiassa to do that. We have a tentitive schedule here
for rap of hold over items.
Aiassa: I would like to have the 15th anyway we can
go into our revenue accounts in more
detail too. So why don't we leave it the 15th.
Young: As matters stand when we adjourn we adjourn
to a regular meeting. All in favor of
adjourning say I. (I)
0