06-05-1972 - Regular Meeting - MinutesJune 5, 1972
The Pledge of Allegiance was recited.
ROLL CALL
•
Young:
Aiassa:
Mayor Young; Councilmen Shearer, Nichols
Lloyd, Chappell
George Aiassa, City Manager
Lela Preston, City Clerk
Leonard Eliot, Controller
Mr. Aiassa, 751 Police is that where
we are?
Mr. Mayor, I'm going to let the city
controller proceed -'-as he did last time.
Eliot: Mayor and city council I would like to
begin by correcting a statement I made
the last meeting. In response to a
question by councilman Shearer regarding revenue sharing. I was relying on a
report given out by the National League of Cities that was a comment on the
revenue sharing bill depending upon the congress. At that time I stated the
bill contained a maintenance of effort clause. Since that time I have read
a copy of the entire bill and maintenance of effort clause. It applys only to
the state govenment and not to local governments and is intended to protect
the cities against any reduction of state level is that the cities shall be
able to reduce their own taxes by revenue sharing. We still don't know where
it is pending. Account 751 the Police department. The staffing is consistant
with last year except for 2 clerical positions we have been added. Those two
positions were added under the pep program and are fully funded as you know
from the emergency employment act of 1971. The Police department did ask for
4 additional police officers which was denied in the preliminary budget hearing.
The increase is salaries therefore between this year and last year reflects the
pep positions hired last year, plus normal step increases. The entire budget
•for the Police department this year as you know it is the largest department.
in the city is up $109 thousand over last years.
Young: Thats without the additional 4 officers
requested.
Eliot: That is true. That is the preliminary
columns itself to last years approved.
Young: How much of one that includes that 100
thousand dollars would be assignable to
the pep program.
Eliot: Something like 69 thousand dollasr of the
entire increases is atributable to the
pep program. The principle one that I
could mention is that we did add 2 police cars, black and whites, patrol vehicles
to the budget this year. Lease costs, maintenance costs, gasoline costs, etc.,
have contributed a good share of the increase. One criminologist and one
additional locational crossing guard was added this year over last years budget.
Lloyd
new fuels which apparently cost a lot
6n them.
Aiassa:
Lloyd:
Aiassa:
Mr. Aiassa, how far have you proceeded
along speaking of gasoline costs? Have
you proceeded toward this natural gas,
less money and we don't face the taxation
I've been getting a report.
George, you have been getting a report for
over a year.
The problem that was facing us was the
gas company was going to put a station
supply and with the conversion of vehicles
Page 2
we have to have those vehicles charged and we have to work with them pretty
much on this basis. Now we have I believe 4 or 6 converted.
Lloyd: What you are telling me then is that the
gasoline company does not have adequant
facilities to handle our vehicles.
Aiassa: Well, its not a convenient or large
• enough to convert a large fleet.
Lloyd: Now a question I have is what would be the
inconvience in police cars and would it
be adequant method I realize of course,
that we would loose maybe 10% performance of the vehicle. Since performance
of a police car is not the ultimate as I am led to believe, that high speeds
are no longer the key to it but organization and team work. It would seem
to me that we could save money on this thing. A considerable amount on fuel
alone because we would cut the cost of fuel alone per automobile by 50%.
Aiassa: I couldn't give you any accurate dollars
and cents figure unless we did a cost
analysis to what has been our normal
operational cost what the exsisting one will be using. Do that, with maybe 1
or 2 units and get some factorial cost.
Lloyd: Well as I understand it some of the state
vehicles and many of the County vehicles
have been changed over. However, they
have not been public safety vehicles. If 60 or 70:miles an hour or even 80
miles an hour is adequant then we can get the break off on this. I think there
is a considerable savings that might be in this area and as I understand it
from what you have here about 40 thousand dollars is the actual increase to
the city. Is that correct?
•Eliot :
by the way cost the city 20� a gallon
same as your pump price.
That doesn't reflect primarily for
gasoline costs thats for all kinds of
lease costs, repair costs, etc. Gasoline
for premium. So were not paying the
Lloyd: Well is that the question that was asked?
I am aware of that. I mean that wasn't
the question I asked. Natural gas of
course is below 10� so it does amount to a considerable savings.
Aiassa: Well why don't I do this is to make an
analysis and bring forth a factural
report. Mr. Chester Shearer's car is
gas operated.
Shearer: Not anymore, I got a new one.
Chappell: I would like to bring up one thing I was
talking to one of our employees and the
gas has not the facilities at this time.
They go up and spend a tremendous amount of time hourly time sitting up there
waiting. The fuel is not giving the performance they though we would have.
I think these are the things we better look in to.
�iassa: Thats part of the project that we are
analysing the ones we have now. Because
thats one of our keys to our conversion.
Chappell: The truck has to go up there almost
every day.
Page 3
Lloyd:
It does have to go everyday with
compressed natural gas'.
Aiassa: What we might end up doing if we could
develop in and provide now we have legal
zoning and other requirements, is to
develop our own fueling station. That way our cars can be parked there during
the night and can be serviced during the night.
•Chappell:
Aiassa:
Lloyd:
Young:
once the aret becomes general only
I'm sure willing to listen.
Labor on some of the vehicles on the
city might be quite costly.
Let me make an analysis of it and brin.g.�
back a written report.
Thank you very much.
I bet money that we find out that
pioneering in the art will cost us far
more than any savings we will get and
then will it pay us to get into it. But
Shearer: As long as were discussing exotic fuels
I would suggest that you not limit your
study to compressed natural gas. We are
converting some of our vehicles to LPG propane. These do not require the duel
system because the LPG capacity is equal to or slightly exceeds that of the
full tank of gasoline. You don't have the problem of the duel system having
to run our every 100 or 90 miles. And the fuel cost on a vast purchase
basis is about 507o. So there might be some pssibility there. The cost to
convert something like 3 to $400.
•Aiassa: The state is now using LPG.
Shearer: Orange County in fact there is a facility
set up there that the City of Orange
the County of Orange and the State Division
of Highways all use the same facility. I'm not offering that but something
might be worked out. And the people who use the LPG feel it is much superior
to the compressed natural gas.
Young:
Eliot:
over 12 thousand dollars, in the
Shearer:
Very well gentlemen, can we move ahead?
Then the only other item that has
significantly increased over the last year
if the over -time account which is up
police budget.
for the 3 police officers is tied
what are they doing? As I recall
Now if it was necessary to disband
in where did they go?
Can I ask a question before we get into
overtime on the basic staffing. Looking
over the detail for the justification
in with the 10-plan. We put on 3 pep officers
they came on after the 10-plan was instituted.
to get 3 bodies when the pep program came
Eliot: This would be part of the implementation
of the 10-plan program. The 10-plan
program as in actually used more man
flower than our former staffing system. One think it has done the actual working
time has been reduced, the police officer on duty his time on briefing is now
on city time under the 10-plan where as before he came to work in advance of
his duty time. His actualy on shift time is 72 hours rather than 8 hours,
because it is a paid lunch break. Again a difference from prior proceedure
where actually using more personnel on patrol than we did under the old system..
We have also increased our over time for the same reason because of the 10-plan.
It has actually cost the city something to go into it.
Page 4
Shearer: My question has to do with 3 bodies we
had a certain staff a year ago prior to
the institution of the 10-plan. Now in
order to staff the 10-plan were also absorved into the patrol program. They
were not used to re -staff the SED program at the time.
Shearer: So the 10-plan required an additional
6 personnel to provide a level of service
• comparable to what we had before.
Eliot: Yes, as the police chief determined the
level that was needed. As a matter of
information I have discussed with the
chief and the deputy chief the possibility of taking desk officers out into the
field and perhaps using some other mode of staffing our complaint desk. That
is an area we are still exploring of getting as much as possible out of our
sworn personnel. We have a Lt. in charge of our records bureau a civilian in
many cities does that task so the same is true of complaint officers you can
use retired officers of your force or other forces at much lower wage and
corporation with the chief we will look forward to providing more officers in
the field and replacing them with more civilian type employee at a lower cost
to the city. So this SED program might be instituted by that means in the near
future. Are there any further questions on the police budget?
Aiassa: There is one other items for the Council's
information we have temporily acitng
Capt. as you know Mr. Hansen, we are
determining retirement or not and that position is temporarily being filled by
Mr. Goditer. Actually the analysis of the operations of the police department
is going to have some phases that might be checked out as we are expanding and
developing an in house program. And I think the desk officer. See when we
went into central communications the desk officer was acting as dispatcher.
It flew up as a savings when we centralized our commuications, then all of a
sudden the chief and deputy chief at the time realized that they were short
•.t the desk. Then for some time they were using kadets to help at the desk and
act as desk officers but this didn't work to well because sometime the Sgt.
or Lt. was called out and this would leave the kadet in a responsible position
as far as the police station was concerned. So we are trying to phase out
some of this. The 10-plan we get the max. number of police officers in the
field in the area needed for patrol. Thats why we added extra cars. Now we are
in the process under various programs of sending officers to school. And this
does take time off for the officer. They are paid for their training and they
get paid as far as the course is concerned by many times it takes 5 or maybe
3 weeks At a time for the officers to complete the course. This puts us into
a little but of a bind as far as over time also sick leave and the rest of it.
Now as you note in budget it is one of the largest operation section of the
budget. And its 24 hours 7 days a week its a cost that going to be re-occuring
and the councils is well aware of the CHP plan which in 1972 will have to be
funded from the city. This is an early retirement plan for the police officer
and they also included the city administration and city manager, as a second
thought. The.1J npact would be quite expensive to the city to absorb this in our
retirement plan. We almost have 30� tax rate taking care of these benefits.
If these fringe benefits keep increasing from the state legislature without
subsidy of funds or funding the burden of telling local government that you must
provide this but there is no source of subsidizing as far as cost is concerned.
PERS is already willing to absorb the difference of cost.
Young: Are you telling us in essense that the
local police department is rapidly
becoming a thing in the past. Because
e simply won't be able to afford it and will have in the past. Because state
or county agency can provide police services as a matter of budget. Isn't that
what we are looking at?
Aiassa: Actually we are looking at two types of
programing. One of them is the closer
pacts between mutual cities where the
surrounding San Gabriel Valley can relieve or over lap us in coverage. And then
the other is that we have to determine what level of services we are going to
Pa ge 5
maintain. Because you can go to an unlimited amount of actually personnel and
each man that in the field has to be covered by communication and by steno and
that increases the clerical work and also increases the over head as far as
operation is concerned and were getting to the point were we have to determine
what it actually cost to keep a man in the field. We have proposed working with
the chief and deputy chief coming out with a budget that will be functional
and keeping with the standards at the level we are now accustomed to it absorbs
some of the extra costs and we feel for 1972-73 we can maintain a.reasonably
�ood amount of service with this progarm, as long as the state legislature
oes not impose added cost that we have to fund.
Shearer: I would like some information obviously
not tonight. How we stand with other
cities not as far as salary but size of
our police department and level of service. Which probably to me their are
many levels of service the number of officers per population. This is something
I have no idea where we stand. Sometime between now and the time we adopt the
budget I would like a report that say compares West':Covina with Whitter, E1
Monte, and some of the adjoining cities. Are we wary out of line to high to low.
I have a number of things'I've checked here but I don't want to go into any
detail. I assume we can service the year with no money for traffic citation
books or for batteries. This illustrates to me things I would just assume no
get involved in I'm sure the police department will function somewhere there
going to get traffic citation books. I would like some discussion for the 3rd
year. I've been involved over vehicles. I see them again then I don't see
them.
Aiassa: To get into the vehicles as you remember
we did purchase additional vehicles. We
leased 14 and we bought 2 new satilites
that we pressed into immediately in the detective division for 71-72. With
anticipation fo 72-73 putting those vehicles as front line black and whites and
we have an option to buy valiants that are now used as executive cars leased
under the lease program at a lower price, at a reasonable lease price. Analysis
Of the blue book and what value we are to purchase. I think you will see that
shown into the account and these cars will be transfered into detective cars
to reduce the two. The main thing that were trying to do is reduce the number
of falcons that have now exceeded the time in years. That have been under
service. But its rather difficult to replenish cars at a rapid rate at the cost
of operation over head. But we are running the executive 2 years instead of one.
This is somewhat of a savings. Now as you notice the police vehicles are
running $294 a month and the 4 executive are $126 a month and then also we have
a building option that a max at the time of---- to buy 1 or 4 of the present
executive cars. So that will bring there complement up I believe there is a
14 detective cars, 16 patrol cars and we would just reduce or replace the 2
detective cars.
Eliot:
Was a spedifis question that you had
Councilman Shearer?
Shearer: No, I see in the detail I'm operating
out -lays a request for 10 thousand dollars
for replacement vehicles that are
recommended item 22 hundred. How many vehicles will that provide?
Eliot: That will provide 2 vehicles actually
the item that the city manager referred
to is that the detective fleet will be
provided with 2 executive cars at the termination their lease on January 1, we
Are an option with the leasing company to buy 2 executive cars at 11 hundred a
iece or 22 for 2 of them. They will be put in to use in the detective fleet
rather than buying new vehicles at 5 hundred a pieve we are buying used vehicles
that we used our self that weill have less than 10 thousand miles on it for
11 hundred a piece.
Page 6
Aiassa: The reason that we leased these cars
as executive cars or even that police
cars is that we find that if we get
them factory equipment the price varies very little because now when you do
buy cars that were driving in the staff executive cars which are valiants, do
come with air conditioning, and AM radios are part of the expended equipment
and the difference in price is so small its peanuts.
�liot: Where there any further question on the
automobile section, Mr. Shearer?
Chappell: There's one little thing that was taken
out in the budget about bumpers. We
just bought bumpers.
Eliot: Thats why.
Shearer: There was a statement made I believe
the first partof March not by one of the
gentlemen up here, that the West Covina
police department had no riot equipment. I see under operating out -lay a
request for 3 thousand dollars considerable reduction. Is the fact true that
the West Covina has no riot equipment.
Eliot: That isn't quite true of course depending
on what you call riot equipment. As
part of the operational budget other
than under out -lay where you are looking, under departmental supplies under
21 you find a good quanity of items such as mace, tear gas, theres also a
separate item in account 61 this time for riot batons. Last years budget
provided something like 17 thousand dollars for riot equipment. In addition
when specific emergencies were to arise as they have a couple tines in the past
year, they have made special purchases for items needed right then. We do
4iave supplies its difficult to say when you have an adequant level. Supplies
e did expend constantly from our budget certain itmes that are certainly for
crowd control such as I say, tear gas, mace, batons, etc.
Chappell: They were being specific they were talking
about a particular item about flack vests.
Eliot: That is a separate item. That we buy
every year parcticly we have , we do buty
flack vests.
Chappell: How many do we have do you know?
Eliot: I wouldn't be able to tell you off hand
the deputy chief is right here he could
probably tell you better than I.
HE SAYS TWO.':.
Chappell: Thats not quite adquant do you think,
Mr. Aiassa?
Aiassa: Well when it comes to riot equipment its
rather difficult there seems to be new
enovations from experiences that other
cities have experienced. And I think if an emergency came an appropriation
would be necessary there to buy the equipment available at that time. I feel
0 hat would be the time that the city should decide. I just don't want to put
thousand dollars in and then all of a sudden they develop a new riot
equipment that would do what the 3 items we bought at half the cost. This is
something the chief and my self and staff will have to look into and come out
with some kind of program that will give us some kind of reasonable assurance.
Matter of fact we hope our citizens of West Covina are sensable enough to not go
into this big things like Oakland has and a few of the others because we would
have to have a separate police force and separate budget that would mount up
to hundreds of dollars. I think Berkely experienced a very shocking expense.
Page 7
Lloyd: Mr. Aiassa, is some of that equipment
like those flack vest similar to that
of the army?
Aiassa: Well they are chest shields that take
a direct blow. I don't know if they
will take a bullet.
Oloyd: Is any of that avaiable from surplus?
Aiassa: Well this one of the areas that we find
we have funds in the CD and its under
surplus and this is where we have aloud
a certain amount -of money to sit.
Lloyd: It its in surplus we can buy it like
pennies on a dollar. And my recreation
is so you spent a couple of hundred
dollars on flack vests or even a thousand dollars at the point Mr. Young
commented rather quietly to me and I would have to concur that certainly the
piece of mind that it gives to your organization if some guys shooting at you.
It costs so little.
•
Aiassa: Actually what were doing each year we
keep increasing the inventory of items
that we use. I think that what happens
is like gas masks and things like you go threw a period of time where you
have to replace them. I'd rather see us have a compact that will furnish
enought people that will be necessary to penatrate that type of situation.
Because for me to furnish this for the entire police force would be.
• Lloyd: The question which councilman Chappell
was referring to was is 2 of these
items these flack vests sufficient.
Aiassa:
and alos if you.look in the
we buy surplus sales threw
Lloyd:
Well we have $500 in here for safety
shields and face shields and also gas
masks so you have extra funds there
civil defense budget there is a certain amount that
CD sales. Thats what we look for.
point of view policy and I think
we don't want anyone to get hurt
no major injuries. The point is
year and if there is any question
type of equipment.
Well as long as you are looking for it
and the chief of police and everybody
is satisfied I would really as a council
all of.us have been referring to it, is this,
in the line of duty. Although we have had
we have been exposed to it with in the last
of that I think we should acquire that
Aiassa: What were looking at to is that you notice
in this years budget a rifle, 2 rifles,
anti -sniper rifles and we have a few that
will be added to the riot needs. Now I also have to qualify here that if were
using equipment a rifle of the type that.is being considered here had a ----
experience in E1 Monte and if they start using armor percing shells that shell
will travel some distance before it will stope. And sometimes it goes threw
the object that has been shot and continues on. And this is one of the things
that I want to be sure that the person who is given this responsibility is
well informed and knows well the capacity of what that rifle is going to do.
Now we are furnishing 2 rifles with scopes and these are for anti -sniper riots.
Its a very difficult thing its like everything else you can exceed your self
and I hate to see things being stored because they don't have any storage place.
I see 10 gas masks from worn out units and thats $420 and its one of those
things thats going to determine what coming forth in a year or so.
Nichols: Its always a dramatic thing to stand in
front of an audience and say our police
department only has 2 or 3 flack vests
or we don't even have one armoured car in the city or we have no well trained
bomb disposal squads, etc. We could go on and on to where we almost created
a small army in West Covina. But we are really operating a police department,
these rare emergencies where there are major riots or where there are mass
uprisings to the point where masses of our uniformed people must be protected
in some unusual way. These things are rare indeed and the mutal aid pacts
that exsists, exsist for the purpose of providing mutual assistance. I wonder
for instance how many times in the history of West Covina has it been necessary
for more than 1 or 2 men to put on a flack jacket and expose themselves into
a situation of danger. I don't recall that those eposidoes have occured so far.
I recognize when one tends to take the position I do here that we have to take
a balanced approach to these matters that then one tends to place in a position
�f criticism for not properly respecting the safety and lives of our city
employees. And yet I think its responsibility of the management of the city
and the council to take some sort of prudent middle ground approach to these
things. If we begin really filling what we might say as the ultimate needs of
our department we could probably add another 100 thousand dollars to our budget
very readily in having available type of equipment and specialized personnel for
these unusual circumstances. I feel in terms of the total strengency of the
budget in terms of city I feel the police department budget and looking at all
of the needs of the city probably those things that are being recommended are
reasonably well thought out and I certainly go along with the recommendations
that we have before us tonight.
Young: Alright gentlemen, do you wish to move
forward?
Eliot: 801 is our next budgetary account tonight
thats our public service area. This is
primarily the office of the public service
director and his immediate staff. There is virtually no change from last
• years budget the only increase in salary is the secretarys step increase. Other
than that there is almost identical budget with last years. Last years
budget was approved at $38,040 and this years $38,743.
Young
Lloyd:
that secretaries somehow be highered
not picking on anyone.
Any questions gentlemen?
I know this comes to a shock to you, 9
thousand dollars for a secretary thats
really kinda high isn't it. I do believe
less than 9 thousand dollars. And I'm
Aiassa: I think a factor is that shes in the
highest E step it thats 3 or 5 years to
reach there. And the present secretary
shes only given a 22 per cent differential and that is if there is going to be
only service director would be removed. See his actually acting as assistant
city manager. And the 2 ddifferential is subject to. Now if we amend the
position where the department only super ----- not complete.
Lloyd: Lets go back to what the question really
is, Mr. Aiassa, and it is should a
secretary be paid $8928, or $8500 or
anything in this category. I bring it up every year and every year I seem to
be alone on it. I believe there are certain people who are in reality
•administrative assistants, and if indeed they are I think they are I think
they should be called administrative assistants. Lets call them what they
really are. And then why can't we back the salaries down. I'm will to take
the howl if thats what it has to be. We are paying the market value secretary.
Don't tell me we are equal with other people because the equality part seems
to be selected. There selected on the basis of some criteria that I don't
seem to understand. Which is I can go in the market place and get adequant
secretary help at 6 thousand dollars and we are looking at 8 thousand. That
has nothing to do with it maybe these people are making decisions which require
this king of payment. And if indeed they are then I have no objection to
there being paid that. But I object strenouly to them being called secretaries.
The people I call secretaries type letters, take dictation, and handle filing,
and answer the phone. Now if those categories are the things that we are
filling then I think these prices or salaries are simply out of line. If on
the other hand if there duties require that I think they do in some of the
cases then I want another name. You can call them lots of things but don't
call them secretaries. I am really deeply offended by this.
Young: Just one cautioning thought though, I
would think of off hand once we tack on
the administrative assistant title which
of course a real good secretary would rate thats been around a long time
would probably deserve it. But the pressure is immediately on to keep booming
right on up. Maybe we are getting a better buy than we deserve for the money.
Its just a thought.....
•Lloyd:
In some cases I think thats true. Thats
certainly probably true in the case of
Eileen.
Aiassa: Actually you are only talking about 4
people. Two of them are in 2 key positions
and 2 are not. The question my secretary
is an exempt position so she actually an administrative secretary in job
desription and her salary is predicted on that basis. Now she cannot function
JD
as an analyst or a Jr. analyst because that classification thats idenified
for itself. And it usually requires a special degree and a specialtraining.
This is where I get my recruit to make city managers. Which we now have
3 of them..
Lloyd: Thats irrelevant, George, what I'm
talking about is secretaries. There are
not just 4 there are many more that are
receiving in excess of 6 thousand dollars a year. And I think we are pretty
hard pressed to justify salaries for secretaries at that level.
Aiassa: Well, one of the things that we might
have fallen a victim to is that as you
know over the years and you know that you
are going to have pressure put again to you this year. Is that these positions
were established on the 50 or 60 per centile and lets say that the persons
that are now occupying these positions are in the E step and every year you
are looking at the E step plus what ever cost of living raise you decide to
give them and if by chance a retirement or vacancy occurs they go back to a
A step. Its considerably lower by far than what they are showing these max.
positions they are now. And most times I think in governmental agencies is
there a tendency that supervisors tend to rotate into key positions I notice
it very readily in County and also somewhat in the state. And that is the
secretaries retain the continuity of the department because they are the ones
that take the time to train new supervisors.
Lloyd: George, excuse me for enterupting, my
question is and I would like to here
some other comment from the rest of the
Council. It maybe that I'm totally out of line. We are not worried whether
or not a secretary provided continuity or not the continuity that she provides
reguards to your administrative analyst or Jr. analyst as they go up the line.
•We make the assumption that we pay somebody 25 or 30 thousand dollars a year
that they can pick up the ball and run with it if they can't we got the
wrong man anyhow. We are now discussing secretaries and I grind on secretaries
salaries which are of excess of 6 thousand dollars. Don't think I have
anything against women because I certainly don't I'm all for everybody getting
what they can, but I think we are paying an excessive amount. I always felt
this way I don't think it comes as a shock to anyone that I feel this way. I
find it difficult even the salaries I see here for evensome, well lets get
down to the facts the secretary thats working for Bob Fast when I compare some
of the people in my office and the load that they carry. And I pay a heck
of lot less for it and frankly I don't know this lady very well but I think
the people I have in my office are not only just as adequant I happen to
think they are better. And I for one feel that we can get these people at
a lesser rate. Maybe she's performing a job that I really don't know about.
But off hand I'm saying we pay to much I will come back to a thing I saw at
NBC they flat out said 50 bucks is tops for a secretary. They didn't care
who it was and when the president and Vice President had his secretaries she
was an administrative assistant. Beyond that level anyone else didn't like
it, out, gone. And they filled it with somebody else aiid I think there is
a possibility this can be done. Now I think for instance there are jobs you
want to talk about planning, talk about police work where the training concept
that goes into says should keep those people because of money. I honestly
don't think there is a great deal of difference. I'm not putting anyone down.
Between the person who types on one type of typewriter or who types on
another. Thats what I'm talking about. I would like to here some discussion
on that.
• Young: Well I personnaly would not intrude that
far into the daly working of the city and
the daily workings of offices. I haven't
gone around to offices and run any efficiency checks I feel there is a
tendency to see these salaries get out of hand as we move along. On the
other hand I don't feel that qualified to pass judgement on specific cases.
I have a secretary secretary that worked for me for 9 years who is making
somewhere in the neighborhood of 9 thousand dollars a year plus certain
other benefits when I'm able to extend them. So I don't know what else to say
J/
it can get out of hand but I think ultimately when it gets down to specifics
I have to leave it in the hands of the city manager.
Chappell: I've been sitting here because I express
this before Jim but the thing about it is
that, I know from what is paid in private
enterprise doesn't compare anywhere near what they are being paid here. Maybe
• a legal secretary may have more ability but I look at people in my office that
are highly competent and have 4 or 5 hats on everyday I'd have to go out of
business if I paid this kind of a salary. But I don't know what we can do
about it. I think Jim we have talked about it and you and I have agreed on
it many times but I don't have the answer and I think everytime we give a
8 thousand dollar person a 22 raise or you get them up there so fast it hurts.
And I think thats happening. These increases as they come along through the
years is just bult these jobs up to where there are above what you could
find in private enterprise. And get the same results for less money. I just
hope my girls don't find out what they are paying over here. Because I'm
sure they'd like to come applying right away. Thats the way I feel about it,
but I've never been able to come up with an answer how we over come this.
Unless we were to freeze those areas until inflation brought the thing back
in level. I don't know..
Nichols: Mayor, there are ways of course these
matters can be handled you can simply
freeze employees in these categories Y
rate them and as you replace on a different salary schedule. The thing that
I conclude here today is that were not going to get anything solved the
problem here today during the budget dilberations. But everytime that we
have looked at the budget the subject of secretaries salaries seems to come up.
Then it dies down for 6 or 8 months then starts looking at the budget then
the matter of secretaries salaries comes up again. I would suggest that the
council might well direct staff in the piece and tranquility of the post
adoption era on the budget that the staff indeed go into detail study in
depth of secretary salaries structure both -'.in government and private industry
and be prepared at some appropriate time, not in the indefinte future to come
back to the council with some meat and potatoes of data and then lets put
this on the agenda some night and study perhaps and look at it and hastle it
around and see if there are answers as we a council feel that we sould come
up with at least we be able to absolve it so that Jim's indignity can go into
privacy or be ordained in some way.
Eliot: Next budgetary would be 802 which is
Engineering department. This is as you
know a major department. Again there has
been no staff increasing over last years level. Increase in salary amounts
reflect the addition of 3 pep people that had been vacanted as of the end of
last years budget. Staffing stays identical as far as the number of positions
is concerned. And there are no sufficant increases in material and services.
Operating out -lay represents a rise of 900 dollars over last year which is
not very large item.
Young: Is the staffing of this department to some
extend or the work load vary with the
and the building process. number of building permits. Will it not
Aiassa: This staff works with the Engineering
structual such as storm drains, streets,
and design work the building and safety
department is the one with the building permits and a building structures.
This is strictly surface or beneath surface constuction.
Young
Aiassa:
So its still tied then with to what we
have in the way of capital expenditures.
You are referring and looking at the last
3 years because of our capital improvement program and has been restricted.
Young: And does the staff reduce accordingly.
Aiassa: Yes, we have, you'll notice there are
certain positions that is being
recommended we will probably delay the
• employment of civil engineer associate. Is that were we have the vacancy?
Chappell: Where are the ones we cut out last year?
Eliot: These are the 3 that have been replaced
with pep individuals these are the item
30 a civil engineer assistant. Pep 5
is one employee and principle engineering aid is 2 employees.
Aiassa: The pep program is the retraining of
private industry public service and thats
why the government is subsidizing require
staff time to work with these employees to retrain them. Jeff here
orginally came in threw the pep program now he is an analyst Jr. and eventually
will strive to be an analyst. And he has to go threw all the requirements
of city employment. And if he stays on the pep program he will only stay
as long as the program surives. And as referring to Mr. Chappell that is
that if the funds cense, these positions will also cense.
Young:
Eliot:
Alright anything further on Engineering?
Street cleaning will be 810,.
Aiassa: The only increase here is bhown in our
over -time and normally this equipment
brought out when we have major accidents.
• Where actually the sweeper is out of operation or brought into serve special
operation. Primarily we have been very consistant as far as the over time
is concerned. Because I think in this years expenditure.......
Young: Mr. Aiassa, not to get us off into an
tangent at the moment. There has been
some complaints as you know, from the
dust at the Home Savings lot. I'm just looking out the window checking on
Jim Lloyd and the area between state street and service its just a free for
all. Cars coming and going all the time. And I haven't checked into it but
I heard a rumor which might be worth looking into is to put a fence around that.
Aiassa:
an immediate relief will
across there now.
Young:
Aiassa:
We have already explored the rumor and
Mr. Zimmerman has been working with a
representative from Home Savings and for
probably have to baracade those established routes
be a more permanent solution.
• Chappell:
Young:
All I want is just a total route.
About.115 years ago we had a sa.milar
problem were the lot above it. And we
baracaded it and I think the wall might
That will only relieve part of it that
loose dirt as the wind blows. You got
to do more than just baracade.
Get a car threw there and you really
got the dirt. Well I didn't mean for
us to get on discussion of this.
/3
Aiassa: Mr. Zimmerman is devoting, well have
an answer for you. Because it scatters
dust all over creation. And then when the
street sweeper comes up it scatters it again.
Aiassa: Well actually the street sweeper is
equiped with a spray front. Matter of
fact if I don't notice any street sweepers
• running where there is dust accumulating around the sweeper I usually make
a note and see what unit it is and it usually is a fouled up sprinkler
system. There is a separate sprinkler system in front to keep the dust down
and its aggravated by the gutter brooms.and rear sweeper. And there is a
dragging unit in the middle that keeps the dust from penatrating threw the unit.
And if the equipment itself is not operating properly then it is either the
fault of the operator or the street superintendent, not saying that the
equipment is not kept in first class operating condition.
Shearer:
Aiassa:
really had an experience.
Chappell:
Young:
*Aiassa:
you have a sum amount on your summary
The way to eliminate dust on vacant lot
would be ----
We had an awful time with tumble weeds
I tell you one year after state ---after
the tumber weeds started rolling we
Home Savings and Loan enlarged there
parking lot and in doing so they graded
the whole area.
I would just discourage traffic. There
must have been a car every 10 seconds
cutting across there today.
The next item is 820 the largest in the
street program. Mr. Eliot has a comment
on item 53 on contractual. I believe
sheet of 117 thousand and 245.
Eliot: I made a comment that we will be proposing
that the additional 20 thousand dollars
be eliminated from that and the purpose
is budgetary. Just referring to what I said a moment ago about the use of
gas tax funds to the use of there up most. The park fund is also one that
is levied by the council and therefore we are attempting to relieve as much
pressure and therefore the median strips are acceptable for gas tax funds
in so far as maintenance is concerned. And we have been able to determine
just with in the last couple of days with the park department that they can
justify an additional 20 thousand dollars of gas tax funding for the median
strips. And therefore we are preposing to cut 20 thousand dollars from the
street repair activity and transfer that as funding from the park amount of
money for median strips but just changing the funding from the park fund to
the gas tax fund. But this will mean a new amount of $97,240 being available
on account A-1253 this again is a large scale project $53 thousand appropriated
from last year has not yet been actually expended but has been encumbered
and held til this coming year so that one program that was presented to the
Council about 2 years ago. This will complete phase one and launch us into
phase 2.
isAiassa: This program will go into your local
limited streets.
Eliot: It will be as the city manager indicated
both secondary and subdivision streets
which are getting pretty old.
Young: You say that we can anticipate a reduction
l�
of 93 thousand dollars in this budget is that correct?
Eliot: 20 thousand dollars. It is using 20
thousand dollars of gas tax funds that
we originally thought to use in this
account. That instead we are using to fund our park operation so far as
median strips are concerned. Which has a chess board or domino effect in
that it would relieve the park fund from funding that much of the median
•strips maintenance. Actually we are not increasing the budget we actually
decreasing the budget by 20 thousand dollars in the total by a transfer in
funding. We will end up 20 thousand dollars less expended in the street
department. Which you are looking at. And the same amount expended in the
future. The only thing is that the funding will have been changed. We
attempted to use as little as possible of park fund money where ever we can
use some other types of funding.
Aiassa: So your net amount that object 53 would
be $97,245 instead of $117,245. Mr.
Chappell under 12 object worksheet 43
we show you the total truck depression in the yard. Which amounts to about
19;:thousand dollars so that means all these units over a period of years
replace itself as far as we figure usability of that equipment. Now on the
amount of money had been raised we normally will discontinue the depression
reduce it to a nominal amout because there is no point for collecting extra
funds as long as the vehicle performs. I think right now we do have a fleet
of 1st class equipment which gives them better performance and less break
downs and better service.
Shearer: I notice on the summary worksheet A there
was an amount 120 thousand dollars
financed out of the capital out -lay fund
which was reduced I assume this was the difference between requested and
proposed in the street maintenance amount.
• Eliot :
Shearer:
Yes, this is the amount our gas tax
wouldn't carry any farther. Had to
be funded by another source.
Eliot: Yes, we could do that as you are
undoubtely aware of the 2107 is available
for maintenance without any limitations
what so ever. So therefore as far as 2107 is concerned we deleat a capital
improvement project and put more money into maintenance.
Aiassa: We could postpone a capital out -lay
program.
Eliot: I would like to add in addition to the
amount shown under 53 that under the accoun-
number 21 supplies and services you
will find a large amount of asphalt materials being purchases. Our own
street crew using the large box that we bought them about 2 years ago. Have
gone to much more progressive program with out own crew. Our work has
increased tremendously with our own people. And wotking with engineering
department we are talking about street department we are embarked on a large
inadequant maintenance program in the city as reflected on 5 year study that
was given to council.
• Aiassa: I think the 3 year program as it was
outlined was like the riot equipment. If
we gave all the money we could get we
could probably really Now some of the street will have to be
'sealed to hold over till next year or the following year depending on the
condition of the face and surface. One of the things for example worst
portions we have on Lark Ellen is between Vine and Merced. There has been
so much excavation done in there by ultilities and etc. that the street now
is.degeriorating and the crow is off now. For example when we did the
construction work on Merced from Valinda to Lark Ellen we had to drop the
/5
center line about 18 inches. Now we ended up exposing a storm drain. Same
think on Cameron we dropped Cameron 8 or 12 inches were county street and
old county theory was to build high crowns and slope them off because the
water would run off and keep the street dry.
Young: I guess we are fortuate in a dry year
that rain is as hard on streets as any
• thing.
Aiassa: Yes, one of the most crucial things we
have is the open street, normally they
call it crocodile hide. And that is
where you see cracks appear in the middle of the pavement. That means the
water penatrating into the base and eventually you are going to have a hole.
And also the oils after certain amount of exposure to the elements, looses
adhesion to the gravel and aggragate. Have a tendency to have a hare non -
flexible surface. So when the trash truck goes over it they are bigger than
they use to be or any of the types of vehicles that go over it you have a
startage for breakage everytime we excavate we have utilities. It just kills
me to see a new street layed all of a sudden have a utility truck drive up
and get the jack hammer and cut a hole in it.
Young:
It kills us all it threatens to kill us
plictically on occasion as a matter of
fact.
Aiassa: We got.tquite a jolt once we tried to
cover all the -man holes and we sent out
the crew and has about 25 to 30 phone
calls said- well typical political program say you start a new street and
they are out there with a jack hammer putting holes in it. What really we
were doing is raising the man holes to meet the needs of the surface because
•there is about 4 inches. What you do is pave over them and dig them out
then put bricks or what ever is necessary to brace them.
Lloyd:
somebodys back with the jack hammer.
Aiassa:
Young:
Eliot:
I know they did that on my street and I
thought they had lost there minds. Pave
the street then less than 2 days later
We do that for the cut out valves for
fire hydrents and things like that.
Gentlemen, anything further on street
repair?
_ Next budget would be 14 sewer maintenance.
Aiassa: Now this one as the Council knows we
withdrew from the County, the service of
our own sewers. But we found out that
we were paying a very high rate for old city's like San Gabriel and Covina
and were our system was partically brand new. We were not getting enough
attention that we could normally render ourselves and would also help subsidize
our street group by giving us added equipment, that would ecomnoically were
running pretty well consistently from the last 2 years. I think this is our 3
year we are going on our own and we have had no major sewer stopage or anything.
• Eliot: There is furtually no change from last
years budget the only thing in salary
account is that the 1 position last year
started in Sept. 71 for 3/4 of year. Therefore now it is budgeted for the
full year that makes the difference of 4 or 5 thousand in your salary account.
Beyond that there is nothing significant.
Young: And if we were on the old system with
the County doing this how much would
we spend. Have any idea?
A�l
Aiassa:
Eliot:
Well I think they have raised there
rate, twice.
Our 4� and approximately 1� below the
County. Yes we are under that in addition
we are giving much better service.
Aiassa: We are buying speicalized equipment as you
• see in your object 33 that your
depressing unit 13471 and 1 unit 198 are
rather expensive capital out -lay and over a period of time these will be
depressiating out and the city will have new equipment. 816 this is your
street trees and as you know it use to be under the park and recreation but
we find its alot more efficient to put it all under 1 operation and the
street department is handling everything. But the park way trees and other
items of that nature come out of this budget here. I want to complement the
school districts they planted trees in front of their schools which they
didn't have 2 or 3 years ago. Now new trees we are buying a few larger size
in the 15 gallons. -.-We find that the larger trees have a greater chance of
survival than the smaller tree and that probably less chance of vandelism.
Chappell:
Were we able to save the trees being
torn out by the widening of the freeway?
Aiassa: Well we have a real problem and we talk
to nursery people and they usually
discourage you to take trees out and
replace them in location. Because normally a speciman tree should be under
warranty at least a year. Your chances for survival are pretty rough.
Young: I suppose it be to late on the remainder
of the xcavating of the trees to just
simply make it available to the public
• if they want tb come down and take a chance on it.
Aiassa: I feel that this is an area that the
contractor has jurisdiction on that
because you can delay him indefintely
trying to select trees and so the insurance factors and the liability factors
once those people start getting into that area exposed to max. and so is
the state division of highways. Thats why its usually best to buy one of
those specimen trees at a nursery and you can get a year guarantee and they
replace the one in front that everyone razzed me about. We have 2 beautiful
pine trees for the same price.
Young:
would have thrown me in the clink for
it goes.
Lloyd:
That are system if I had been caught
out there the night before digging up
one to take it home. I believe they
thievery, trespassing so thais the way
The responsibility of any trees that
you plant responsibility of the people
to who's house.
Aiassa: Its a legal question. I think that the
courts have proven that any time the city
plants a tree and in a city park -way in
city right of way that, that tree is the jurisdiction of the city. Now thats
• when we had the bidg hastle with Mrs. Kelsy, Silver Maple that Russ Nichols
well remembers we even made television that year. They were going to remove
5 thousand trees it became a symbol that we were going to tear out the city
of 5 thousand trees. Ended up that we experimented and pruned about 20
of them and there almost back to the size they were orginally. Also the
volianteer request is quite expensive to replace those specimen trees. A Silver
Mapel is a very deadly tree, first of all its rapid growth, extending roots,
/7
and ridgidness as far as branches are concerned. The only safe way to maintain
these trees I have a Silver Maple on my property, I spend private money to
spray it and I had it day -lighted every 2 or 3 years were the inside wood is
taken out and the branches are left to the wind can go threw with out wipping
them. Some of the cities in the older sections of California have now gone
threw a replenish program as they plant new trees in between the old trees
give the new trees an opportunity to get a certain height then they remove
the old trees which are destroying private property, sidewalks, storm drains,
• and all the rest of that, I think a perfect example of that is La Verne with
their Pepper trees. Several major streets in La Verne,.sidewalks and curbs
are just like this and city is liable. The moment somebody stumbles and some
attorney happens to have a quick client.
Lloyd: It the roots of the tree is planted by
the city on a city park way and grew into
private owner property, do they have
the right to remove those or not?
Aiassa: Well the normal proceedure is we usually
wait for request for removal for example
if somebody does have one of these
problems the first thing we usually attempt to do is sheer off those roots
if they don't make the tree unsafe. In some of the other cities I've been
in we have gone so far as to lift up slabs of concrete sidewalk and literally
remove the roots, sand pack the sidewalks and put the slab back.
Lloyd: What I am trying to determine is the
responsibility. Does the home owner
have the responsibility for the
maintenance of the tree as far as watering or any of that is concerned?
Aiassa: Well normally a city should take the
responsibility of maintaining And keeping
those trees in which it plants. But
• also you realize subdivision maps and final accepted maps the sub -divider -
plants trees in the parkways. Now when it comes to private property its a
questionable item. I believe in the case that Mr. Lloyd just pointed out, we
would have to determine whether the city does have a liability. It normally
ends up in a civil suit of some kind of there is extensive damage. I presume
the proof is who planted the tree whos:care and liability was involved to
take care of it. That was one of the items I think the park and recreation
commission made quite a issue on Silver Maple they could see the liability so
we had a problem.
Shearer:
Aiassa:
Shearer:
Aiassa:
an issue on Cameron Park we had some
Shearer:
• Aiassa:
Shearer:
Aiassa:
the city streets and tried to
Special to ------- palm trees on Lark Ellen.
No we haven't I wish we could.
I'm just kidding.
Those are one of the most controversal
issues that I reached when I came to
West Covina and matter of fact there was
Italian Cypress.
Does this account 816 cover maintenance
of park trees or is this strictly street
trees.
Strictly street trees.
Do you have any idea how many trees we have
There was
done 3 or
now has a
identify.
an inventory I think it was
4 years ago and street department
map. We actually went up all
Shearer:
Do you have that -figure?
to know which trees are
street trees.,,
I would like
classified as
Aiassa: No, I don't have it available but I think
I can make it available. We did go out
I think what happened I think its one
•of those unfortunate incidents is that at the time we allowed the selection
of trees we had 5 and we discovered way to late that 2 of the 5 should never
have been planted and what happened is the 2 that were.not desirable parkway
trees after studies were more economical, they grew faster and they are
attractive trees. I still say I don't care what ever statics show they will
not remove my Silver Maple even if I have to rack leaves in the winter time,
I still think it is a very beautiful tree. But you have to care for it. I
Have to spray it and I have to hire a private tree surgery for pruning and
which amounts to about $80 between my 2 front trees and back trees.
Young:
Mrs. Bergman did you have a comment you
wish to make?
Mrs. Bergman: When the survey is made and the Silver
Maple is found undesirable I called the
Park department ' -to relate to fron of my
own house I wanted to have that tree removed and at the proper time the tree
be selected for the area be planted I would pay the difference for the next
size tree for the one that would be planted. I was told that Tulip trees
would go in there. I am now 5 years later and have never had a contact back
if the larger tree is available. Is the Tulip tree now an exceptable tree?
Aiassa: Yes, the Tulip tree is.still exceptable
and also the magnolia. There is a list
and now your particular case was a
specific question. If we put in a box tree which would probably the difference
• in growth and size you would have 1 tree. Suppose everybody else in the block
removed their tree.
Mrs. Bergman: Everybody else still has Silver Maple.
So I have a bare lot.
Aiassa: Yours is vacant.
Mrs. Bergman: It is bare because I am waiting for some
kind of a plant. I haven't pushed it. I
is a water public. would really like to know whether there
Aiassa: Yes, there is for the down town commercial
area where there is no facility for watering
Which now our new precise plan and
ordinance requires that they do provide automatic sprinklers. We try to keep
them at a safe height so they aren't hitting street sweeper. We prune quite
a few trees. I think we ought to check your case.
Young: Mistakes are made like fools, like we,
but only God can make a tree.
Lloyd: The question was I never did hear the
answer. If someone will pay the difference
• and will you allow them to do it.
Aiassa: We had this case brought before us. It
is a policy matter and I believe I'm
going to have to have a meeting with Mr.
Zimmerman and determine the differences in size.
Young: Perhaps you could give me a recommendation
on that if its a matter of policy we
should consider it at council it seems
lT
perfectly reasonable to me.
Aiassa: Right now we are faced with a difficult
task and I think probably Mrs. Bergman
realized is with the number of trees and
the amount of care we have to give the parkway trees now our office is
partically quite extensive.
• Lloyd: Question: Will you if someone will pay
the difference give them the next larger
tree?
Eliot: Thats are present policy. The present
policy is the 15 gallon can that you
marked there is available to the home
owner for paying the difference between the 5 gallon size and the 15 gallon
size.
Lloyd: What if they want to go to a 50 gallons.
Eliot: We have not yet had that request. There
has been no policy on that. I assume the
City Managers office would have to
decide that.
Aiassa: One of the items that come up and I think
its a item that has to be determined by
policy what limit size tree are you
going to permit to be planted in that area, Because the larger specimens
often survive better but they.klso need care.
Young:
Is there anything further on trees?
• Aiassa: 821 is traffic.iengineering. This is
mostly funded by gas tax funds. And we
are actually limited to want we can expend
certain funds for in this particular category. The budget itself I think
reflects the increase and theres a very limited service reduction of 575,
but an increase from 71-72. The capitol out -lay there is $6910 and break
down it shows you its a replace I think of an old piece of equipment services
and this is where jointly the city and state maintain signals, city and county
maintain signal and cities other than West Covina maintain signal such as
Covina. And then also we have the maintenance of 10 traffic counters and
also 1 radar unit. Now the capital out lays 10 inductive loop detective
amplefilers, 6 pedestrian heads and frame works 1 telephone slave unit,
lminor movement control, 5 fail safe systems monitors, etc.
Lloyd: How many siliscopes do you have?
Aiassa: I think this is the only one.
Lloyd: Your radio man must have a siliscope,
you do have a radio man?
Aiassa: He is maintenance. Its a maintenance
service.
Eliot: Are radio man is half time on the traffic
lights. He does have his equipment to
• use in both areas.
Lloyd: He already has a siloscope right?
Aiassa: No, we don't have one.
Lloyd: You mean the radio man doesn't have a
siloscope how is he able to operate?
•
Aiassa: We have a contract for maintenance o�
the radios and normally if the units go
out there just, we have a spare unit to
replace it and we take it in for service.
Young: I thought we had a big hastle over this
siloscope business some few months ago.
We discussed on the Agenda for buying one.
Lloyd: I think that was a guy talking about it
was a meter a frequency meter.
Young: Its not the same thing?
Aiassa: This kind of a meter or unit is used to
give a -----
Lloyd: All I'm saying is if your radio electronic
gear the only way you can maintain it is
you have to have a siloscope. And one
siloscope kinds does for everybody.
Aiassa: This is what going to happen is probably
charged to traffic engineering will be
under the jurisdiction of radio traffic.
Young: Also are we going to make a deal to offer
our service to some of the surrounding
cities.
Aiassa: Yes, we already have 2 cities we have
contracted with on the radio program
with the maintenance service man.
Shearer: I can't find the guy who repairs traffic
signals.
Aiassa: He is under city yard.
Eliot: He's under account 822 we split traffic
into 2 parts the last year 821 is the
engineering part and 822 are the men who
actually work in the field and do the maintenance of traffic signals. And
they make the traffic signs as well. So that would be the next budget you
look at. Maintenance man 3 is a man who goes out and does maintenance but is
not the man who does the electronic work. You find him under communications
I'm afraid under account 721.
Shearer:
Eliot
He does both radios and traffic signals?
Yes, he does.
Aiassa: We have a man that works in the city yard
and I think he is;.under city lighting.
And his assignment is to actually keep
going on traffic signals. George Zimmerman do you --remember?
Eliot.
being charge to civil defense again
equipment.
We call him communication tech. He is
listed under account 721. He is listed
there as 1 full man and z of him is
because of civil defense electronic
Aiassa: I wan to make a correction. We have a
correction made the state civil defense
that according to there governmental
ruling that this man doesn't meet the qualifications that would permit us to
be subsidized by the state and federal funds, under CD. So they are now
,21
getting very restrictive in civil defense funds. We have to supply an
afirmative program by July 1, to be eligible.
Lloyd: I'm very weary of that affirmative
program. Its terms of affirmative
action and we can get baried on it.
Before this city goes into any affirmative action program I don't care what
the rest of the council does but I think,------. Because it is crocked with
a great deal of danger.
Aiassa: If and when it does go threw we will
have to go threw personnel board and
from administration to personnel board,
personnel board to the council. But we have to under the program to recieve
federal funds. This is their program.
Lloyd: Thats a program before we go leaping
into it. I want a briefing on it.
Aiassa: You will, we are now in the phases of
doing analysis on it. I think what
Mr. Lloyd is leading to and I think if
you've had any experience with some of the agencies surviving soley under
federal dontracts that there really getting tied to the nitty-gritty, that
thier actually running the personnel administration.
Lloyd:
Aiassa:
are going
got enough
• presume we
Shearer:
Eliot.
Thats exactly right.
I think this is a point where we will
probably have to decide what road we are
going to cross. How restrictive they
to be and if there to restrictive were just say no. Because I've
paper work now with out spedding extra hours. Mr. Shearer I
answered your question.
time between the 2
radio repair work.
or truck there its
Aiassa:
Shearer:
Aiassa:
Shearer:
Well I'm not sure. Is the communications
expert he is my exclusive radio tech. also:
Yes, he is. The radio tech. was origian113
hired for that purpose. And that is why
we originally hired him was to split his
tasks. Was to service the in city signals as well as do
When the signals go out in the weekend and you see a car
usually our man there.
Are you talking about the individual
that goes up to the traffic lights and
changes bulbs.
I'm talking about the guy when the
traffic signal get stuck and won't operate
who un-sticks it?
We have a maintenance electrician. He
is under city yard 849.
There seems to be a difference of opinion.
Aiassa: I think the one that Mr. Eliot is
• referring to is the master control units
which is the box control units. Then
we have the signal itself in the middle of the street which requires maintenance
cleaning and up keep and electrical service. And the maintenace electrian
does basically all the work. We were having an outside contractor giving
us emergency services like for example Sunday the traffic signals went out.
Now normally if its not a serious problem like a master control box we usually
CXl
phase it out to 4 way stop or else physically man it by policeofficers. Now
the maintenance electrian usually does the routine maintenance of traffic
signals heads, bulbs, and things like that. Now the master control boxes
themselves usually don't require much care except for phase changing and
are traffic engineer usually works directly with the maintenance electrician
or with radio service man depending on which is the most available. Now they
keep working on these varies phases and these are master control boxes.
• Nichols: We are certainly getting some complex
answers to a very simple question.
Aiassa: Well, I want to say this. Its a
complicated operation and its not simple t,o
answer.
Young: I notice here that you have cut 3 courses
here 3 educational program and they
might be quite valuable.
Aiassa: Normally we would probably put that
under the personnel budget and also I
want to say to is that some of these
courses are rather elaborate courses and there would be no point to send a
maintenance electrian or someone, unless he is going to come back with
something worth while for the city.
Young:
rendered at lesser cost.
Aiassa:
I assume some one asked for it, its in
this department. And asked for it in
better faith that better service can be
We always give them a 50-50 try its
whether the budget can bear it or not.
Which comes first the meat or potatoes.
Eliot: We have consistent problem of deleating
educational coursed and replacing in the
personnel budget in the since that all
in-house training should be channeled threw the personnel department. So
therefore in this particular budget and others under educational where courses
have requested they have not been so much refused as being deleated from
here and then the department being told channel threw the personnel department
who then can handle all the request. So this is not turned down in that
since.
Aiassa: We also sometimes can't spare the
individual if it is a one man spot.
Young: Alright, is there anything further on
traffic engineering, Mr. Shearer?
Shearer: The signals are maintained jointly.
Aiassa: Yes, you're right. It is actually 3
people.
Shearer: I also would like to know how many soley
maintained signals we have.
• Aiassa: That I requested my self so you'll have
that available.
Young: Alright, anything further on traffic:,
signals?
Aiassa: Mr. Zimmerman informed me that we have
35. Then we have others that are joint
between state.
1:�3
Young: I suggest we adjourn for 45 minutes.
We will reconven at 6:45. Is that
agreeable.
Young: 822 is up I believe.
Aiassa: 822 is traffic maintenance.
• Eliot: I think Councilmen -,Nichols asked what
the big change was in 21 and that is an
item $7500 for changing all of our speed
limits signs to comply with the new state law requirements. I believe this
new international, instead of black on white is going to be white on black.
I believe.
Lloyd: Aren't the signs changing with these new
signs?
Eliot: All new international standards.
Aiassa: We will maintain the same shields but we
will use volcanizer and its a skin thats
put on over the other ones. So we re -use
which is the most expensive the steel sign it self.
Chappell: I see some of the school signs up there
pretty good ones.
Aiassa: Also the bicycle route is up.
Nichols: Whats the difference that $7500 but there
is 1200 differencial there.
• Aiassa: Do you know how many signs we have?
Nichols: I asked what the difference was and he
said there was a $7500 item for sings
and I said thats only part whats the
difference.
Eliot: The rest of it is in the sign material.
For up -dating our sign blanks for again,`
the same purpose it is the I believe an
effort to internationalize all traffic signals and the scotch -light material
is for altering certain other signs that we have in the city. There is a
dead line I am not aware at the moment what the dead line is.
Chappell: Did we get any special funds for this?
Aiassa: No, actually what they are trying to do
is make it national so that everything
would be uniform and also it is required
that we paint instead where we have the yellow line we have another color
combination and I held off that this year because it was quite a re -paint job
so we will wait until we have to re -paint.
Aiassa: This is not by our makings or doings.
• Chappell:
There complusary things without any
help are costly aren't they.
Aiassa: I wish we could do it under the basis that
we only replace an the necessity and the
requirements, require but we have
vandelism on these signs and somebody just works for certain candidates like
to stick those cuey ones on especially our stop sig:s. One of the items to
thats rather expensive to is our street especially our secondary streets
requires new paint annually.
Young:
Anything further on street maintenance.
Aiassa:
Lloyd:
• Eliot:
in the retirement program.
Lloyd:
Eliot:
another year because it
Chappell:
832-the only change is the contractual
area. The other ones are the full time
positions.
How many more years does Mr. Stanford
have to go?
I believe he is intending to retire the
latter part of this year. He is waiting
to see if there will be any liberation
Is he eligible for the CHP because of his
involvement in the Police department.
He may be because of his part tame work
as a police officer, yes. If the police
department were to get it he might wait
doesn't become mandatory unitl July 1, 1973, I believe.
Actually we only have 1 person on here
now a 2 a person.
Eliot: Right. Next account would be 841 which
is street lighting. This is the city wide
lighting assesment district. Primary
purpose of course is to install lighting standards where there are none and
to pay for energy. In the current year we are not intending to install any
new electrical lears. The entire sum reflected here is for energy except
for the small amount for the engineering staff time spent on the district. 841
as I say covers the entire city and when you come to 842 that is the small
•additional district formed when we annexed the Villas. This required by law
that we form a separate district for a new annexation, after a period of time
they have a new common experation time we will re -combine to one large assesment.
Young:
On item 37 is that a mistake?
Equipment operating should that be 6
thousand on the budget worksheet B
It is 6 thousand on object worksheet......
E1 iot
Young:
It looks as if it should be 3 thousand
because the.....
Its 3 thousand on budget worksheet but its
6 thousand everywhere else.
Eliot: I'll have to double check it but it would
appear from the addition just glancing
at it that the total went down by 3 thousand
that that was intended to reduce from 6 thousand to 3 thousand since the total
reduced 3 thousand. I would suppose 3 thousand was correct. 842 would be
the smaller district again providing lighting energy in the Villas.
Young:
40
Adjourned to June 8th.