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05-25-1972 - Regular Meeting - MinutesMINUTES OF THE ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL CITY OF WEST COVINA, CALIFORNIA MAY 25, 1972 The adjourned regular meeting of the City Council was called to order at 4:07 P.M. by Robert O. Young in the West Covina Council Chambers. johe Pledge of Allegiance was recited. ROLL CALL Mayor Young; Councilmen Shearer, Nichols, Lloyd, Chappell George Aiassa, City Manager Gloria Davidson, Deputy City Clerk Leonard Eliot, Controller (Tape was not turned on at start of meeting) Young: Thats fine it doesn't really matter. We passed it unanimously. Then I think we can move right in to the budget hearing. Aiassa: I have one Mr. Mayor, its embarassing fortme to bring it up before you because normally I don't like to bring these up to the council but its a matter of the issue that you made the motion because I was late I was negotiating with Miss Joan Colman and she actually has served he San Gabriel Valley Humane Society as long as I have and she want to •ropose a rate increase. Now, the reason that this is important is that they give licenses at the same time that they give the rabie shots. Now, she wants an expression from the council whether or not we should maintain the' $4.00 rate or go to the $5.00 rate which all others have now maintained. And I was dickering upstairs for more than 207o and I just didn't seem to get to far. But I was working in the interests of the City of West Covina. Young: Well, you know were only kidding, Mr,- Aiassa, lets get right to the point. Do you want some action now? Aiassa: Yes, I would suggest that we authorize and I will recommend on our first meeting in June that we award the contract to the San Gabriel Valley Humane Society for on a 2 year period at the fee of $5.00 per dog. Young: Alright, we have the staff recommendation, councilman Nichols has requested the floor. Nichols: For several years I was the council's liaison to the Humane Society, and met with the representative of that society and reported back to the council on the various developments in terms of the services that were being offered and implemented. For some strange reason in the course of evolution I was dropped by the wayside and all of the contacts and all of the loecent negotiations with the society have been handled exlusively by the staff, nd the council hasn't been involvedk.in any way. I wasn't informed that I had been rejected and so I don't know exactly how it developed to the point where the council liaison dropped into limbo on this matter. So I have two points to make one for about 7 or 8 years the society has been squeezed for funds and there is no question at all in my mind but what some adjustment should.be made and this one is moderate in the extreme so I certainly don't desire to throw any block into this and will vote for.it and recommend it. But I feel a very gentile element of critizism is warranted in that these recommendations and the discussions ,that had gene on should have been related to the council as they evolved. And if council liaison is to be suddenly Page 2 dropped and negotiations continue at the staff level I think that some explanation would have been due at that point. I'm sure its inadvertant so my critizm is not one of intent but one of ommission and I feel then that this is a area, an element that relates to thousands literally of our citizens in the community. That when proposals are under way or discussions are under way for a change of service a modification of service a change of rates, etc., the council should be as much involved in this in the earlier 0ages as the area of trash pick-up or water rates, or anything else. And • to have this proposal come before us now at the very out set of a budget hearing with an element of urgency attached to it is inadvertintly or otherwise really moderately or minorly a disservice to the council. And I would urge upon staff that this type of liaison be reinstituted or that these things not again come before us with no advance notice what so ever. Young: Well, excuse me, is there comment from other councilmen on this? Chappell: I think that councilman Nichols has a point whenever were negotiating things of this nature and I think he threw in the trash we should have liaison there so that council can be kept abreast of whats going on because basically its going to finally come to us and if there is anything we may disagree with or want more information on the council liaison can at that time request that information and we will be better informed. I always thought councilman Nichols was on this committee still and didn't realize he hadn't been attending them. Young: Just a minute, councilman Lloyd has requested the floor. Lloyd: Mr. Aiassa, as I read this thing, this thing, .has been operating without a contract for • a period of how long now? . Aiassa: Now, we were running without a contract and then we amended the contract to make it effective to June 30, 1972. So you have a bonified contract running right::=now, til June 30. Now the problem that has come up and it is a ----- Young: Can I ask a question too? Not to uct you off councilman Lloyd, are you, -threw? Lloyd: Let him finish , then I have some things I want to know, go ahead. Aiassa: At that time the council extended the contract to June 30, of this year. There is only one thing we didn't finalize on and that was whether or not a $4.00 fee was to be charged or a $5.00 fee was to be charged. Now the problem that is created is that while there giving rabie shots there making out receipts and also giving the individuals there tags and there is a receipt whether it be $4.00 or $5.00. Now, if the council doesn't want the rate increase, Miss Coolman, all she wants to is -- Just say yes. Young: Mr. Aiassa, here is the point. We have come down here tonight for a meeting scheduled for 4:00 for a budget hearing. Anything �s important as a 20% increase in any kind of a fee with'a contract of long . standing should not have to come before this council on an emergency basis where the thousands of people that councilman Nichols refers to have no notice of it what so ever. We're given a stack of, sheets of papers here 17 or 18 sheets of it that were supposed to vote on and its passed out here at this meeting and I'm very irritated that were not threw a substantial portion of what we came here to do. I thought we were coming down here we would certainly authorize the clinic for the rabie shots but this thing is worthy of the dignity of a regualr council meeting. Its worthy of the dignity of the public having an opportunity to participate because they are affected by it and I would suggest that if the council wishes to go along perhaps we can go Page 3 ahead and let the fee's be written on the $5 basis with the understanding that his council does not have an appropriate hearing to go along with that, that the extra dollar will be refunded, but to come down here and get ourselfs into an hour long debate at a budget session on this special item is wearing me just a little bit thin after a real long day. Lloyd: • Why do we have to do it right now? Obviously everyone of us is caught short on this thing. Aiassa: There would be no problem. All you would do tonight is say, Miss Colman, have your rabie shots on June the 8th and proceed. But we had made this steady and this was Mr. Alec Andrus who is not with us and he was suppose to have brought it on agenda in May. But do to some problems that he was catching up with work that he did, he just didn't get it up to us. I have to apologize for him because he had other things that were crucial too. But the question now faces is this, is that why don't we go ahead and allow the same exsisting contract the same exisiting fee and then what we'll do if its necessary, we'll just send out a special notice out and if the council decides after they have time to deliberate the 16 or 27 pages and want to raise the rate then we'll go back and collect the extra dollar. Chappell: I would be against going back and asking for another dollar after we started it. Lloyd: You want a motion now for the authorization of the rabie shots. Young: I thought we passed that already. Thats been passed. Now you want either the increase to $5 which �loyd: I'm not prepared, I will vote against it, if the motion is made for $5 I'll vote against it right now. Mainly because I'm not prepared to act on it so I solved the problem. If you want a motion for'$4 then I think you're stuck with it as councilman Chappell has already indicated. Aiassa: The $4 is exsisting. Lloyd: If we continue the exsisting then you're stuck with it for a year. In other words what I'm saying to you is I recommend that you provide some moment of study. Can we extend this thing til July 1st or something. Young: Councilman Shearer. Shearer: Roughly how many dogs do you expect to vacinate on June 8th, Mr. Aiassa? Young: Mr. Aiassa, can't we just have an answer to the question. Miss Colman: I think around 900 to 1000. Shearer: Alright, why don't we just charge them 4 Abucks raise it to 5 July 1 and they got off J with a buck and the city looses $900. Nichols: Of course, gentlemen, the Hmane Society will loose the money, not the city. Miss Colman: I think it would be a little unfair to the citizens if we charge for a 1972-73 license some $4 and some $5. Well, our proposal Pa ge 4 is with $4 we retain 100% of the license fee. Our costs have gone up to such extent that we have to raise something. Nichols: Mr. Mayor, may I ask a question of Miss Colman` Young: Yes sir. 40ichols: What is the date of your proposal to the city for the adjustment in the rate? What date did you communicate with the city? Miss Colman: 4/28 Nichols: April 28 was your first commuication. Aiassa: No, our first meeting is the 12th of June. Nichols: No, I'm not making my self clear. When did the Humane society first communicate with from 4 to 5 dollars. the city and make a proposal to raise the fee Aiassa: April 28th. Nichols: Less than a month has gone by, I don't think thats a great deal of time I don't think the council can act on it on that short of time.. I think the council should consider it obviously. But I don't think today is the time. We haven't had time to talk about it to discuss it. This is a budget hearing. I'm not prepared to vote on the issue at all. Chappell: Mr, Mayor, may I make a motion? Oung: Yes sir Chappell: I make a motion that we hold this over and that licenses not be sold when their giving the rabie shots. Just the rabie shots be given and collect the licenses in a normal manner from door to door as they have been doing in the past. If we decide to raise it then there is no problem. Nichols: Before there is a second on that can we inquire if this creates an inordiate hardship on the Humane Society. Chappell: No, it isn't they've told me that. Young: We have a motion and second before us is there further discussion to the motion? Those in favor say I. Oppose None. Chappell: So well get this on the next regularly scheduled meeting, Mr. Mayor. Young: May we Mr. Aiassa? Aiassa: Yes, *ung: Miss Colman, we are very sorry, I'm so sorry I'm so irritable at this hour. But thats the way it is and we'll get in to the budget hearing now and we will cover this problem in the proper manner. Mr. Aiassa the hour of 4:30 having arrived could ive possibly get into the budget. I believe you have a presentation to make. Page 5 Aiassa: a choice in this matter it came Young: Yes, I do Mr. Mayor. want to apologize to inconvienence in this to me about 3:00 this In the first place I the council for the matter but I had not afternoon. We'll for give you if .you just get going on the budget. Oiassa: OK, now the seoond item of most importance to the budget is the Revenue Account. And I believe I have my city controller here Mr. Eliot who will proceed and review the basic revenues that we have received and have expended. And I think particularly in reference is made to the Audit report. Now each one of you councilmen has received an Audit report, thats, that brown folder that.you have in your file. And in this Audit report this shows the budget approved by the council for the fiscal year of 70-71. It actualy shows the physical receipts received actual shows you the disbursements the expenditures where the money goes how it is spent how its accounted for and then a private independent firm comes into the city and goes threw the entire controllers files and certifies that what he finds and what he puts forth in this report is what is the exsising condiditon of the city as far as finance is concerned. Young: Of course, that Audit report bares relevancy only as far as might let us know what to expect at a future.time with respect to 71-72, right. Aiassa: The Audit report is the tool in which that tells you from year to year how you are functioning how well.your receipts are coming in and how good are your estimates. *bung: The point is though its almost a year old already we're into a new year, is there anyway to get an audit report sooner. Aiassa: Theres only one way that you can get an audit reposrt sooner and that is put a great big burden on your own physical staff. Because we close the books we can't close the books until the first of July and when the books are closed on the first of July, that means all the posting and all the accounting has to take place. Also we have to do it somewhat with the convenience with the audit agent that is employed to do the job, because he sends over a crew of men who go over each indivdual warrant. And they take these piles of warrants out and they go into the conference rooms and each group they actually physically audit the books. And this is not a slow methodical job and then they do re -analyze and they take staff time to go back and re-evaluate. Now we've tried, one year, we,,,:were-back a.whole year and so what I'm saying is were coming next year, you'll be right as close as possible. This is a very valuable instument to us because it tells us at the close of the fiscal year of 1971 we knew exactly how much money we had in balance reserves. So that meant that we could start our new fiscal year with a new balance with the money that was justified by the certified accountant. Now, the instrument itself its a compact report, it has sufficient breakdown, it shows down in each department show its usually brokedown in three items. One is salary, which is the bulk of the expenditures of the city, the other one is expenses and capital outlet. 'And then it also breaks down where ,4 JK1 the different funds and the distribution of the funds where the funds e charged. Alright, now in the present budget we have here we have 2 one of them is the base budget which shows you where all your receipts are coming. Now -this is a very important portion of the budget because this is the area in which tells you how much money you've got that will be avalihble to expend to do the services that are going to be required by the city. Now first of all and the most important part is that we are actually predicting receipts or revenue 14 months in advance. And that means we are sometime in March and April we are putting the budget together so that we can get it ready for the council sometime in May. And that Page 6 means we have to go threw these accounts and determine as whether or not we have 6 or 8 months of real receipts and then we'.11 have to estimate the other receipts to see that at least we're somewhere with in the ball park as far as the actual receipt. Now the only time we ever know what the actual receipt is, is when the final Audit is made and the account sheet is posted with us. OK, then the next item comes is the budget itself. This is the operational budget this is the instrument in which the city council gives he city administrator officer the authority to operate the services the ity require. Now each one of these items are listed. Each one of these items are listed not only by salary and expenses and capital outlet. I would like to say this to the council you do not have what we usually call a very lucrative budget. We are running an austerity budget. We try to maintain an austerity operation and I think if the council as it goes in threw all these items from 701 to 781 you will realize what the expenditures are. Now, if you have this brown book you can look into your book here and it tells you exactly what they did last year. But we extended that physical figure or that dollar figure into this budget so that you didn't have to inconvenience your self to go threw this other book. Now, I will let Mr. Eliot proceed here and I think he will give you a list of some of the, each one of the budget that were going threw like 701 which is the city council 702 is the city clerk and so on down the line. Mr. Eliot. Mr. Eliot: Well I do think that we should review where we stand righ now and perhaps clear up a little misconception. Financial reports is merely a conformation by an outside accounting firm that the records are being kept in an proper accounting method, are accurate and that they are fairly reflecting the financial condition of the city. Therefore, in preparing the budget we do project where we stand today and where we hope we will be June 30, 1972. So as we go threw the budget and on the revenue and expenditures both you will see a columns that says projected receipts or projected expenditures thats our best guess based on the latest evidence we have on hand which is our April financial statment of where we will be on 40une 30. We have been fairly accurate by using those figures. The Audit ,eports that you did receive represent an examination of the financial reports prepared by the finance office and they confirm to the public that an outside agency has examined them and finds that they are in order. The thing they do illustrate graphically in these very two small volumns that is comparing June 30, 1970 to June 30, 71 we see a disstressing trend in that our general fund reserves have been dwindling primarily, of,�course, because of our efforts to keep from raising taxes we have been dipping into our reserves. At this point if you look at your June 30, 1971 report on exhibit A you will see that our general fund combined unappropriated reserves and surplus balances amount to 19 thousand dollars combined. This is hardly a conducive to a restful night when we have billings coming due, payroll to meet, funds are coming into the city not in a regular flow as you are aware of, property taxes come at one time of the year, motor vehicle taxes come in great chuncks, but our expenses go in a steady flow. Some reserves are necessary just because of the cash position of the city, for this reason this year you have probably already noted that the city is has in its front piece to its budget stated that their is a deficit because there are no reserves to dip into. We are facing a year in which we must consider 3 alternatives a massive reduction further than what we've been able to do. Such reduction of course, as you are aware would primarily be in salaries because that is the major part of.your budget. A major reduction in that area would reduce the level of service to the people of the city and we have not made that decision. The second alternative of course is to go to the most convenient revenue source of a city which is the property tax. That is Ve indicated rate that we have shown on the first page. The rate that would necessary to balance the budget at its present position. Young: Essentially a 14� increase is that correct? Page 7 Mr. Eliot: Essentially a 31� increase. Of course, there could be a combination of both reduction and tax increase. The 3rd alternative that we are suggesting to the council and of course it will be developed over the next few days, the ultimate decision is yours, is that business license tax should be adjusted thatthere is sufficient revenue available by an adjustment of the business license tax essentially balance the budget. We realize that his is an unpopular measure we are talking about a gross receipts tax ith a rate adjusted for retail and professional persons. The rate would be very close and below that of Los Angeles. But higher than the rates we are presently charging, in order to raise additional funds. For that reason we will present to you, we are typing up as many comparable cities as we could possibly locate so that you'll have a chance to study that over the next few days and next few weeks. Therefore we'll just go on to the budget as it is prepared but we wish you to be aware of the suggested solutions to our present problems. Our budget this year is approximately 900 thousand dollars. Aiassa: There is also the Mills Bill which is now being reviewed in Washington D.C. that 750 thousand dollars will be made available to municipal government. If this becomes a reality, this makes notonly a 2 phase operation, one of them is that it helps subsidze the budget but it also can give council the power to reduce the tax rate. Chappell: I was under the impression that thats bpen held off for some reason this last day or two. Eliot: This morning latest bulletin,is that it passed the House Committee on ways and means by an 8 to 7 vote and its gone on to the floor with a provision attached to it, that it can't be amended on the floor. Which is what Congressman Mills wanted. So its on a position on the floor to be Doted on without amendments. At the moment its a 50-50 proposition as far as we are concerned. And as Mr. Aiassa said council would be in a position to make adjustments in any tax increase or cuts in services at such time and if this bill were to pass. We will of course keep you posted but we do anticipate that in all that this budget will be adopted. Or a budget will be adopted before final action would be taken on this bill. So only thing left would be to amend the budget later in the fiscal year to reflect the congressional action. Shearer: Isn't it correct that we have until the 31st of August to set the tax rate? Eliot: That is true and you probably have an additional 60 days to change the business licenses taxes if you wish to do so. Because they are due on 1 January. We probably mail around the 1st of December and so probably some time in November, I have to check with the city attorney, would probably give us sufficient time to send notices to business enterprises if that were the will of the council. Nichols: Mr. Mayor, at what point in the discussion of the budget will we go into staff projection for revenue that is sales tax revenue, etc; Aoung: Anytime. Eliot: Right novv I mean sales tax projection are current revenue estimates. Are you talking about business license projection or sales tax sir? Page 8 Nichols: Well, we have budget figures here which project a certain amount of retail revenue that is, retail tax revenue, property tax revenue and were in a transion period in the economy now where all avaliable evidence points to a significant up surge in retail sales and revenues and the council will certainly need the benefit of a staff analyst of its projections in terms of the general economy. As to whether these projections •are ultra -liberal, ultra -conservative, mid -point projected, etc, and the conclusions that will be reached relative to these projections might mean the difference in terms of 10 or 20� on the tax rate. We have generally in our city taken a more conservative position and rightfully so in terms of cash flow, income from local sources, non -subvention revenues and I speaking only for my self and I hope however for others would like a little bit more detailed analysis this year of the basis for a projections at the staff level. Eliot: Yes, we can furnish that at our very next meeting. I believe were tentively scheduled for the 5th of June. If I remember correctly and we would be happy to provide our basis of projection for all revenues that we show in our budget. Not only to sales tax. Aiassa: Also, a very important item of the over-all budget summary is also a important item is that the council as a legislative body can adopt a minium amount of money that they feel is sufficient or adaquent to operate the city. And if that is the case and the council desides to do that and it would direct the staff to go back and re -negotiate the operational budget to make it meet the obligation. Now, that means that if just say arbitrarily council decides that a tax rate of 0 is not going to be demanded, is not going to be required not going to be set. Then we would have to go back to the exsisting budget and actually go threw it and weed out that amount of money thats not going to be raised. Now we have already weeded out •a large section of the budget. And we have figures here to show if the council would like these are the figures that we feel justify that we can operate without. We also feel and we also want the council to be cognizant of 2 things, the freeway widening to be 3 years and the CBD areas is going to be 22 years. And we're going to be in a strong sweat period economically. Now there is no way around it. We also have the pressure put on from Saera.mento where there passing liegislation that are demanding the cities to pay the tab without representation. And some of the bills that are now passing such as the CHP plan is requiring the city to pick-up the tab with no substate. Now these are the things we can not predict and we can not tell you in a crystal ball that it will happen. Nichols: But Mayor and City Manager these elements are not reflected in this budget at all. Aiassa: No. Shearer: If we get hit with the early retirement the CHP provision for safety employees. This is going to be a load way in excess of what we're talking about here now. And all of us have to be aware of that. That we may be forced indeed to look at tax increases and levies way in excess of even this projection. Which even compels us to take even a closer look at what we are having before us now. Aiassa: We are also now right smack in the middle of • negotiation and meeting with the various representative groups of the city employees who are now making forth there demands and desires and requirements. And our proposals will be brought forth to the council and the council will make decisions as they see fit as far as those proposals are concerned. We do have inwhich we did not have last year thats why you developed a 60 day budget was that we did put in a lump amount of money which is probably more Page 9 • equivalent to about a 527o cost of living in the budget. Its in the budget, so actually physically if you adopt the budget July 71, you have it built in. And that would permit you the power and authority to adopt the budget. Thats why you couldn't adopt the budget last year is you didn't have the revenue built in the budget. Shearer:1 requested based on the request Is that correct? Aiassa: You mentioned, Mr. Aiassa, that you had already made some cuts if I read the submittal correct. The total deficit as of the various departments as 1.3 million. Yes. Shearer: On the basis of the difference between in the meat of the budget, between the request of the preliminary you are recommending to us a reduction approx 900 thousand leaving a, I would say I guess you are recommending a budget that is out of balance by 448 thousand. Aiassa: Thats techincally right the basis that we've done that proposal is that if the council wants us to bring the budget into line. Going back to the revenue receipts then we would have to go back to all the budgets and bring them back reduce them to the amount to adjust to the 7 million 888 thousand 252 dollars. Shearer: But your recommendation is 900 thousand dollars less than the various departments have requested. Aiassa: I haven't made a basic recommendation as yet for the budget I just propose the budget now, reviewing it and seeing what the council feels about it. Because the council is the only one who:,ihas the power to determine. Shearer: I know that Mr. Aiassa, but aren't you recommending a budget to us this is your proposal. So many police officers and so forth, so you're presenting tonight a budget 400 thousand short. I'm not complaining don't get defensive now please. That might come in a couple of weeks. You have already sat down with departments heads, just answer yes or no and have reduced 900 thousand dollars. If we gave them everything they wanted we would have a deficit of 1.3 million. Aiassa: Absolutely Shearer: OK fine that all I wanted you to say. Aiassa: If we gave them there demands thats the figure that would be required to raise and provide and fund the expense. Young: Mr. Aiassa, another question Aiassa: Now, let me go one step further. Young: Can I ask my question. aiassa: Yes, I was going to answer Mr. Shearers. Shearer: You have answered mine already Page 10 Young: Just to clarify my thinking.and going threw the material that we have scheduled to study tonight. I haven't gone threw the entire budget just what we have tonight is all I've looked at but I notice increases substantial increases in various departments running 5-6-8-10 thousand dollars, and are thoughs essentially pep increases? • Eliot: That is correct. If you, if it is in the salary area. Young: So we cut out there we cout of revenue right along with it. Eliot: Right, they match each other. Essentially the budget is at the same level as last year there is not a single additional employee. Over last year we cut 18 position. We have added pep positions that is the reason there is a raise in the total salaries, and as were going threw here. Young: For example, on the police budget Mr. Eliot, I think 4 additonal policeman were recommended 3 for special detail and 1 detective and that would be essentially a pep increase. Eliot: No, that was deleated the request was deleated for the additional officers. The pep staff is last years that we did fill with pep people. The 4 additional officers were requested and deleated from the preliminary budget this year. There is not a single additional position. Young: I'll reserve any further question till we • get to the budget in our study. Aiassa: I just want to make one statement I'm not thin skinned. I want to answer Mr. Shearer's question. The budget I'm proposing is.a workable and functional budget I can give you a balanced budget but you will not get the service and the productional level services that you now accustomed to. Now thats the point I wanted to make. What I'm thinking is the range of budget that you're now being proposed this is somewhere were we can function and operate the city on the level of performances and services that were now rendering. Its a matter that should be made of record so that you know if you reduce the budget then you've got to realize that you have to reduce the services peilod. Chappell: How accurate is this evaluation figure we have now received this figure 143 million is Eliot: This is my estimate based on I think very accurate data. We have started with last years gone threw all of our building permits in addition we have asked for an advance estimate from the county assessors office the council did pass a resolution inableing us to do this earlier this year. We have received that estimate from the county assessors office and its within 400 thousand dollars of which assess evaluation of this is practically no difference at all and I feel very confident that its an accurate figure. • Aiassa: Because for 5 years we've been matching our estimates compared to the county's. Chappell: I was just hoping that there were 10 or 15 million laying in there that we hadn't got to yet. Page 11 Aiassa: Young: I think council realizes that isn't due until December the receipts do not come in until Very well shall we proceed. the tax bill 5th and our December the 5th. Nichols: Well, I would like to ask one more question. • A rather general one. George you've indicated that the budget you are recommending is a statis quo budget and that it maintains services that any reductions in that budget by the council would involve a reduction in services. The budget that you are recommending to us shows a deficit of 448 thousand dollars. What expenditures are represented in the 448 deficit. Obviously, salary increases are there. Aiassa: Nichols: Benefits. Can you state with some definity that the 448 thousand dollars is totally in employee benefits. Aiassa: Not completely because there are certain operational function in the budget that this is actually by a normal growth and operation in annexations the city is growing in size of proportion were we are adding not only police cars but also communications operations and things like that. This is, some of it is just one of those things that were faced with. Is that we are growing in population and we are functioning and requiring an increase in a personnel and also in certain departments. Now I am not out right subsidiz.ing any of the departments that are now being benefited by an out right grant of 29 employees,under the pep program. And when that day is over those departments are going to be minus those people. Because there is • no money in the budget in the general operational budget to cover them. Nichols: Of course, we also recognize that we have an approximate 47o inflation factor on everything from tooth picks to policemans hats, that has to be reflected in the budget. But could you just for general purposed here indicate to the council what proportion of this projected deficit is represented in employee benefits. Either in raises that you,'ve recommended in the budget or other built-in employee costs that are unavoidable. In otherwords in this deficit. Eliot: Approximately 2/3 of the 260 thousand dollars is the amount thats projected for possible salary increases and the related costs such as workmans compensation on that salary. We also face the fact that the turn over rate of the city has declined to where I believe somewkere around 9/10th of one per cent because its cold out there. Therefore you're getting more long term employees going up our steps, therefore, there salaires are going up as that happens. Other than that inflation yes, has it us very graphically especially in our utilities. Telephone f'or instance this year, if I remember correctly is probably close to 20 thousand dollars more than last year. Primarily because of the General Telephone rate increases and we find this with the rest of our ultilities, water and the edison company. Nichols: *adjustments or in miminal El iot : What your saying in effect then is that the 448 thousand dollar deficit is represented largely in recommended employee salary inflation factors. Thats correct. However I say not recommended it just a reserve in the event there is a meeting of the minds on something. Page 12 Nichols: Then what we have before us that we're going to be tearing apart is a budget more or less -.identical to last years level of services with employee adjustments and dollar giures to represent increase cost bein levied against the city. So that as we go into this any downward thrust that we -make in terms of reducing of cost are literally and without any fat are a reduction of services. And you will be able to show us that es we move threw it. Eliot: That would be correct sir. Young: Are we prepared then to move into the budget itself. Eliot: Yes, I believe so. Aiassa: I think the first series of the budget is pretty well self explanatory unless council has specific comments. Eli®t: We could run real rapidly perhaps. Aiassa: Staring out with 701 is your city council budget. Young: Well you see on salaries and positions object worksheet 11 an increase of 42 hundred dollars for example. Aiassa: This is bookkeeping account because of the amount of service per centage wise that we've been keeping in our own operational •in house as a service that we render. This. -is not what it shows in your budget it will show in another but it still isn't the total budget. Young: You mean it will be a reduction in some other budget? Aiassa: Thats right, you'll see in part of city managers and park in one other department. El iot : May I suggest Mayor that if you :arse the summary budget I think we could go a little faster and if.we need the detail we can go to that. And the summary budget does have an advantage it does show the position being discaussed who is the person in that position. It will go a little faster perhaps for you. Young: Its your presentation. Eliot: Do you have it sir? Young: Yes, sir. Eliot: So if we run threw 701, is the city council budget and if you were to turn to summary position budget worksheet C. You bould see the actual 3 positions or halfs of positons that are being charged to the city council budget. Again as to your discussion as to the difference in • salary from last year to this year. I have to look at last years staffing figure. Aiassa: We have removed to administrative intern. Page 13 Eliot: We have an additional half position last year two a half we're charged to the city council budget. This year there were 3 and a half if you notice. Thats the primary difference of about 4 thousand dollars in salary. The other items of expenditure -are pretty much set as you know the salaries are set by law. The rest of the items are nominal amounts to set aside for council business amounting all in all to less than 2 thousand Dollars. Are there any question on that budget? One clarification, we have the column heading authorized estimated. Is estimated budget as to what these would be. the prediction as of the time you made the Eliot: Thats true our estimated expenditures is based on our latest experience. And the authorized is the last years budget that have been made by subsequent action. Eliot: That is correct. Aiassa: We're actually using a 5 year tabulation our per centage should be pretty close. Eliot: Move on to 702 is the City Clerk's budget. This is the first budget we come to where we do see a pep "position is the difference between the salaries for 71-72 verses the salaries for 72-73 and this is occasioned by the funding by pep of a clerk typist position and the amount of 59 hundred dollars has reflected on budget worksheet C. �ihearer: What is your best guess as to the chances and the odds of the pep program continuing on past Sept. I. Eliot: They seem to be excellent seem to be every other indication other than saying yes. From the County and from the Federal government that this will be funded again for a second year. They have not contacted us yet as to filling out forms because there're getting there're briefing from the federal government. There is no reason to believe that it will not be funded for a second year. Aiassa: results and I think if there gives us a positive assurance fill reasonably assured that Shearer: Aiassa: 0imilar as city employees. Young: I think one more step to answer Mr. Shearer's question. The people that are in charge of the pep program are rather pleased with the satisfied and pleased with the results that this that the program will continue. Thats why we it will continue. salaries this year 100% increase. pep salaries would double too. If we grant any type across the board pay increase to regualr employees will the pep increase. They are employed techincally and professionaly the same as any other employee of the city and derive the same benefits. There just To put councilman Shearer's question in a ridculous perspective. So I can understand it better. If we doubled our city employees If we were to do that then that means the Page 14 Eliot: Absolutely. Young: Does that mean the agency suppling the funds for the pep program would automatically send twice as much money. Eliot: Its not automatic. •Young: So des that mean then say go 57o on our employees that the pep people get the 57o but we plug in the 57o the contributing agency does not. Is that what your telling us. Eliot: Not quite. Aiassa: We apply for it. Eliot: Mr. Aiassa, is quite correct in our application for funding we would indicate the new level of wages. We have indicated in our salary savings that recently you were presented with funding some additional positions with salary savings. I believe 4 or 5 meeting ago. In that application we did plug in across the board increase. Out of some of those salary savings, and this was approved. This takes us threw October. Qur new application will go in undoubtley sometine after our budget and our salary rates are established and in that new application we will include the new wage rates. At which time we anticipate the county would approve our new wage scale. They anticipate that this is the manner in which they will handle wage increases in agencies. Young: This is another suttle method to keep us from complaining when the county goes overboard on the sheriffs department or • someone because they cut us off when we request their contribution to a---- Aiassa: There is one difference the Sheriffs department doesn't have to apply to another agency to get their receipts. They stay within the same little organization. Eliot: In this particular instance however. The money is not coming from the county. There merely serving as a agent of the federal government as federal funds and because of the size of our city the federal govenment has designated the county as coordinator agency. A separate department handles it on a coordinated basis that really doesn't tie in with county operations. The county by the way so far as I know it has recommended no wage increases for safety employees this year. Chappell: Are we back on this City Clerk now? Eliot: Yes, sir. Chappell: We have in the budget here looks like a recommendation for a Senior Account Clerk which was deleated. A clerk typist was not asked for. Were they just changing title of that individual? •Eliot: No, sir, this reflect the addition pep position during the year. Chappell: In 16A we had a clerk typist last year. Correct? Aiassa:. It was requested. Page 15 Chappell: Were on budget worksheet C. We have a Clerk typist 1 here which we have current there was none requested for the new year. But we've put one -back in the -preliminary. Would you do that. y Eliot: Yes, I will the department in preparing there budget included a provision to up grade the exsisting Clerk Typist position to a Senior �ccount Clerk and was told this is not the proper way in which to handle it. It goes threw our administrative revenue committee and is not a manner that the council would decide that this time. Chappell: Well thats what I was asking. OK fine. Eliot: The other items in the budget parallel last year and are relative small expense items amount to something less than 2 or 3 thousand dollars and are in line with last years expenditures for supplies and expenditures. Any further questions on that account? Then we'll move on to 703 which is the City Tressures budget. Which shows furtually no change from last year. A difference of I think 500 reduction primarily in misc. supplies. $300 a primary in the limited service employee pardon -me. Is the only difference in this years budget from last years so the total approved budget is $500 last years budget is $500 more than this years preliminary budget. Aiassa: I would also like tonadvise the council that the next fiscal year that if we go into the CBD development plan there will be a need to sell bonds, and this may create the'need and demands of this department. Right now we feel it is not because its on a deminishing returns. Chappell: Was Mabel out of this the whole:•year? 0liot: She will be out this entire coming year. Chappell: No last year. Aiassa: Yes, but she was only drawing $100 a month. Chappell: She was not a full-time employee. Aiassa: She does not have to show up at the city hall. She was not in the position of Senior Account Clerk, it was not filled last year. Chappell: OK fine thats what I wanted to know. Nichols: Mr. Mayor, a question thats probably more on ignorance than logic. But in the orginal proposal we had a 400 thousand dollar deficit which included a salary adjustment yet in these first categories as they'have come across in terms of the figure tetals. I don't see that salary adjustment represented. Eliot: That is correct. We have not completed our meet and confer process. Normally to make any recommendation for the councils action. I would be difficult to say who, and which department, which classification •employee would get a raise. There for we have included it as a lump sum eserve for salary adjustment under account 737. In your budget is a lump sum. Nichols: Your not projected a so many point raise right across the board. You'I"-`}_ left a lump sum figure to be left to negotiate. Page 16 Aiassa: Lets say we per centage the total payroll and per centage the total amount of money it would require to cover it. Are we are Ci'ty Treasure still? In the detail for the justification for the permanent part time clerk typist. This Sitatement is made. There is a need for this position who can be named Deputy nd handle the office 5 days and on days when the Treasure is not here. Thats been deleated however there are funds still there for,�Deputy City Treasure Does that mean someone else is Deputy other than this person? Eliot: Deputy doesn't necessarily,: have to be an employee. Aiassa: The code provides the City Clerk and City Treasure the power to deputize anyone for an sextra salary as long as they are acting as there Deputy. We do that show it in the budget just in case that there is someone deputized. Right at present there is no one deputized in the City Clerks office.. Only acting City Clerk and Yvonne was deputized in the City Treasurers office. Shearer:-,- So then the City Treasure could deputize this senior account clerk thats in here. Eliot: She could deputize someone who doesn't work in her office or a citizen. Aiassa: She could deputize Eliot if she wants too. Shearer: How much is that worth Eliot? 0liot: I've applied for it. Shearer: So she could have a deputy even though there is not position. Seh can appoint. Aiassa: On no, its got to be a person. Shearer: Well obviously you can't appoint someone who is not there. She doesn't have to appoint someone in the city treasures office. Eliot: Thats correct. Aiassa: She can pick out anyone. Young: OK anything else on city treasures? Eliot: Then we go on to the City Managers budget. Its again essentially the same level as last year. This is account 704. Young: Apparently the City Managers office has over drawn during the current year by about 5 thousand dollars. Is that right? iassa: The City Controller doesn't make transfers until the end of the close of the fiscal year. Most of the time when he gets threw making his transfers they usually balance. In other words instead of doing a monthly quarter salary transfer from the account of the city council or any other department. Its such a damn way of keeping things. I'm not overdrawn because you can look at your audit report and it shows pretty close that I hope I'm not. Page 17 Young: Toe audit report is the year preceeding George, now were talking about the immediate year that were still in and apparently your going to over draw $5,000. So your asking for the budget of the coming year to met the realities of.your office. Aiassa:e: May I only make one statement out of all • the,, years I've been here. Chappell: I think he's not with us. Account 704 worksheet 11. Aiassa: In other words your on the summary sheet. Chappell: Right, its easier to distinguish here. Eliot: Essentially in your summary budget if you look at budget wor.khheet C you would get pretty much the same detail as you would get on 11. You can stay in one book if you care to do it that way. Aiassa: May I make one comment to the council that the City Manager returned an excess not expended 7 thousand 291 dollars and 22 cents last year. Lloyd: Where's that? Aiassa: It's in your audit page 7 exhibit B. Nichols: And the imprint show your catching up this year. Aiassa: No, I'm riot, I will guarantee the Mayor that • I will not over draw this year. Eliot: The primary difference in budget in the up coming year from the present year is the pep position again . In the budget worksheet C. Young: That answers the question righ there. Aiassa: I think the key answer for the mayor and I think the key answer for the council is to look at the auditors report and that shows you where the finance department is overdrawn. Take a little crack at the finance department. Eliot: We shall move to 706 which shows an increase in the budget from last years, level of 1 thousand dollars again this occurs in the salary account and this effect is primarily 2 pep positions. The primary difference":here again is 2 pep positions with 13 thousand dollars therefore the increase over last year is 11 thousand dollars so it can be seen the primary difference in salary. The other accounts are approximately the same as last year except for capital out lay in which there is an increase of $600 budget worksheet D details the items requested under operating out lay. Shearer: I found a type"a graphical error on your • detail sheet D-31 increase due to additional 3 pep employees. I think its 2 isn't it. Aiassa: Thats right. Nichols: I wonder what a 1 thousand dollars a piece for supplies for 2 employees. Page 18 Eliot: The finance the cost of processing All the purchase order forms are charged to warrants, checks, payroll,.registers, it is a it is not comsumable paper and supplies used for general city hall operations as they are Ourchasing. and purchasing of course absorbs all supplies that are used in items for the entire city hall. the finance department. All the service center and therefore by a secretary but supplies used reflected in finance and Nichols: If 2 employees had not been hired then these services would not have been rendered to the city and this 2 thousand dollars would not have been expended. Eliot: I would estimate that we probably would find that it is difficult in any department including my own to pin point what exactly the result would be if you were to omitt 1 or 2 employees. My best estimate now would be if you were to omitt 1 or 2 employees. My best estimate now would be that some of these cost would be reflected in some other manner. Such as increase purchasing cost for the city because obviously we would shut off spending time interviewing salesmen, getting competitive quotations, cutting down the number of competitive quotations resulting in higher prices being paid by the city. But difficult' -to pin -point and prove where we would end up. Shearer: I have comment in that if the city of West Covina could do that at such an elaborate accounting system that we would relate how many pieces of paper and pencils 1 employee use. I would say we had to great a finance and accounting department. We could save some money right there by perhaps cutting in half. I think that would be to much to adk and expect •anyone to relate specific office supplies to specific person. Aiassa: I think also one of the items that are hard to explain is that we are called upon several times a year to make a physical reports and it takes volumnes of work to provide for the vardous agencies of the government. And these are hard to spell out and these are hard to account for because of the time. Young: May I ask a question not to be picky or picky une. I went threw, this relates to budget worksheet D in the larger book again, account 706 Finance and Purchasing in the summary. I went threw the other books for my homework and I dint pay much attention to this summary book that were working with tonight. So I'm a little short handed there. I notice on budget worksheet D requested 1455 preliminary 1055. Eliot: You've found another type a graphical error. Worksheet D should be less. It should reflect the same as 61. We did cut one of the 2 calulators out of the budget and therefore it should read in the preliminary column one $400 rather than 2 at $800. Young: Alright, thats fine, Thank you. Aiassa: They were a little more greedy and they did • not accomplish the number they wanted. Shall we go to the next item. Eliot: 708 is our planning department budget. Nichols: How did the planning department slip in a complete organizational chart on us this year. Page 19 Aiassa: This is not official so the council does not have to adopt the organizational chart. Eliot: We just tried to get everyone to let us know who is in charge of the shift. This is the department where we have 1 transfer of salary out of the department. It is the same transfer as we made last year. Its a ransfer of 10 thousand dollars against the CBD project because the planning directors time is so taken up with CBD that we felt it appropriate to charge against CDB where it will be a reimbursable item. The total budget for salaries again shows an increase over last years. And again we point to the Jr. planners pep position of approximately 96 hundred dollars for the principal cause of the increase in the budget and as we say 96 hundred of that is the pep position so we come up with a total of 34 thousand dollars. Which is in the limited services positions and again these are needed in the planning department, primarily because of the CBD work load that the typing and steographic work cannot be accomplished the routine work for the planning commission and council as well as the CBD and therefore there is this increase of a half of a position fo clerk typist these two items the pep position and the half clerk typist account for the entire increase. Aiassa: Mr. Mayor, we also would like to take this opportunity to put a plug in. I think the newpaper always like to take the ng;gitive side but they might want to take the positive side. The amazing factor is that we have not increased the staff any portion to do all the work that is now being undertaken to put this CBD project together. And all cost is born within the same budget operation that it was as the year prior. Shearer: I hope our delineator in the planning department get rid of using his own tools. I think for the 3rd year now I've seen the same excuse. Why don't we just advise the planning department that we Wecognize that tools wear out and we'll buy them new tools. Eliot. refused to by them. Of course, unappropriated balance. I was just going to make a comment that might be interesting to you. He refused them this year. It was in last years budget and he that money is reverting back into the Shearer: Another item is only a $15 item but I won't object but I hope the planning department can get $15 use of a subscription to Cry California From what I've seen of the magazine its a rather useless pice of material. Now, two serious one I notice under on item here object worksheet 53. 32 hundred dollars was requested for material from the data bank. How will that, is that something thats new or is that something that has been an on going project that they won't be able to be a available vacility this year. Eliot: It is a project that has come to a temporary halt in any case because the company that previously furnished the service is no longer furnishing it. The planning department has not used the service for the last, -year or two. They were proposing to re-establish something that has been in limbo for 2 year. It was elimated because it had not been used for 2 years and it was felt we were getting in to a new cost item and using the reasoning that if they were able to get by 2 years try 3. Because we did no want to enter into what was essentially a new program at this point it was new because it had not been used for that length of time. Aiassa: Mr. Shearer, I would like to give a more complete story on that we were sold a package good by the city of commerce for 75 hundred Page 20 dollars and threw the process it was to utilize us to certain land values and simple reports that were less than $18. What happened since that time of we have been putting this package together the company has gone broke. And but we have up dated our records and we have everything up to date now we are to make a transional period of whether we can transfer the data into another storage bank and then put it on different computer card to get the back results that we want. But it was one of thoughs things that we were kind of trapped in and I would never want to go threw that type of program ,gain. Shearer: One more question that I can't help but ask two office doors we did not get them when they built city hall or did somebody break then or what? Eliot: They were built as alcoves as part of alcove off the work room the planning department and it has become a fact that it is noisy in the outer workroom and disturbing to the persons working in those alcove areas. And these are new doors which isn't to unusual I guess but these are new doors. Aiassa: I think you have a good point. When the orginial plans were made plans by one planning director and when the building was built it was under the supervision of another planning director and when the building was finally completed and occupied it was under the jurisdiction of a new planning director. And now the new planning director feels that this is one of the areas that he needs the privacy for those too areas. And we concurred after we and part of it is threw management they felt that they weren't getting the results that they needed, and so the 2 doors were left out temporarily to see if there going to be a necessity and if there is we might have to come back later on And press the council for them. •Young: somebody like the county. Aiassa: Young: I think we should complete the lst floor move the 3rd floor offices down to the 1st floor and rent the 3rd floor to Now, how did that get into planning. You are talking about 2 doors being left off they forgot a whole floor here. Eliot: The next account is 710 it is the Personnel department primary increase in the salary account two items have caused the increase one is the increase of 6 thousand dollars because of there is a pep position that was not present before. The second is an increase in the budget salary for the administrative person in charge of the office of approx. 36 hundred dollars as you recall there was a change in the staffing in the personnel office. Aiassa: Lets not leave that so The city manager did without an assistant for almost 5 to 6 months and we made the director of public service acting city personnel officer and by doing we ran an economy and that why the budget shows a lower cost. But now its become a necessity after due process and meeting with the personnel board. That they • want someone to be closer to the needs such an affirmative programs and all these other things and we just don't have the man power as it presently exsist to accommodate it. Shearer: Geor , just a-Aittle side line don't brag to much having got along without him for 5 months because then we might Page 21 turn around and say well if you got along without this has been my experience that if you got along without him for 5 months why not a whole year. You don't have to answer that. Aiassa: •loyd: I want to answer that I was desperate for 5 months. Excuse me, George, isn't that the assistant personnel officer were talking about now? Aiassa: That was Mr. Ray Winsor. No, -at the time - Mr. Shearer we came to a lul in employment and we came to a lul of turn over and greater time was consummed between the manager and the higher eshalance of staff to meet and confer and we felt that would be a good apportune time to utilize the limited staff personnel to the lower grades to do the routine processing 6f jobs, job descriptions and job changes and things like that. And it worked out satisfactorily now we can't do it any longer. Eliot: Now the total budget therefore, as authorized last year was approx. 11 thousand difference between that year and this year and again the salary accounts on those 2 items account for it all except about 5 or $600 of the difference Young: Eliot: This object educational have you commented on that? Number 45 is the educational item. Did you what some explanation on what it is and why it is? evoung: Is this built in by any change to employee benefits which are taken in to consideration in salary negotiations. That some of the other councilmen would like further explanation. Aiassa: Let me elaborate a little deeper on that. At one time each department had $100 and $125 for. this and we felt it .would_:be better if we did group training and `groupi-in)-ihouse training. Young: For example would this be used in the para-medic program that were encounting now with the fire department. Aiassa: yes sir. Young: I would come out of this budget here. Eliot: The next would be 714 City Building which relates primarily to the maintenance and repair of the city buildings. Young: How do you arrive at a minus factor on utilities this time threw number 41. Down 2 thousand from authorized and •estimated. That utilities are more expensive now. Eliot: All I say is that no one is turning out the lights any earlier than before, the projected estimated for 71-72 is not really I believe accurate because the 4 thousand dollars figure was computed by the building department. By their department heads based on actual bills I would have to say that the 44 thousand is more accurate, therefore, this year we should end up with spending less than the 46 thousand dollars. Page 22 Young: We hope, thank you. Shearer: I have two questions on city buildings. We are reducing as it appears to me one night custodian. Is that correct? Eliot: Yes, sir. &hearer: What basis? Aiassa: I think we are reducing it on two basis one of them is that we lead a program that our orginal program was that to have a maximum coverage of all the departments on a fixed amount of cleaning. We have now come to the point where certain departments do not require that concentrated cleaning. I think this is one area that we feel is econmic and its a savings. We also feel is that we feel we might be able to get*' -,a little more night supervision on that night crew that is now working. Chappell: Did that man work night or day? Aiassa: The one that was proposed was a night man. Shearer: Is that position a filled position now? Eliot: Yes it is filled. Lloyd: You do your major part of your cleaning and everything at night anyhow. You don't have anyone cleaning during the day. • Aiassa: There's only 2/3 or 3/4 work is done at night 1/4 is during the day and that is the misc. things that can not be done during the time when stores and things like that are open and major repairs and things like that. I mean not major repairs but that are not ---- Chappell: Are you talking about changing light bulbs, changing planting. Aiassa: See they come in on odd shifts one group comes in at 2:00 another group may come in at 6:00 and another group comes in a little later. So that its completely covered as the departments close out and there available to the service and each man is assigned a floor.each is given specific duties and check out list for them. Now are question is does he put, in the full time thats required. I'm just like Mr. Shearer. Is the time comsummed tp check the guy putting in'his full time worth the number of pencils and papers that are consummed. I think we have worked out a program now thats going to work. Shearer: Just a comment on worksheet 53. I'm a little taken back at even somebody would even suggest the necessity to re -paint the city hall and police building to match a building that hasn't even been built yet. Unless that again was a type -a -graphical error I would suggest who ever in the city is thinking along those lines of building a building land then painting it to match the exsisting building. I'm looking at city buildings object worksheet 53 statement for 12 thousand 3 hundred dollars which fortunately you recommend be deleated. Say re -paint exterior city hall and police building to match the parking structure. The parking structure isn't even built yet I would hope that the architect will specify a color that matches what we already have. Page 23 Aiassa: Mr. Shearer, at the time that we proposed the budget we were well in thought of if but it isn't now. Its deleated in our budget. .Shearer: I think also, that we take a look at the color if that was even a problem in even remotely possible that we review the Opecifications before the thing goes to bid to quarantee that its going to look - like this building in color. Somebody dosen't have to come back and say hey we go to spend 12 thousand bucks to paint something that doesn't look right. Aiassa: The items that were proposed were 2. There are certain areas that take a great deal of extended use that is your cooidors, stairways and areas like that. Shearer: It says exterior. Aiassa: Well that exterior that the stairway on the exterior way going in to the area. Shearer: In that case the statement should be to re -paint the city hall because of use not to match the new parking structure. Aiassa: I didn't make up the budget but I met with staff that reviewed the condition and at that particular time at one time we do the mimium we built the city hall to be sure that the paint protects and everything else that necessary and as we gradually get the landscaping and everything to comply and develop as a mass that sometime, someday the city council will have to desire to make the building more desirable and more •ttractive to fit. Shearer: Thats all fine and thats another reason to paint the city hall all I'm saying we shouldn't even be thinking that were going to have to paint city hall to match a building that we haven't even built yet. Thats all I'm saying. If need to paint the city for maintenace or for any other reason fine. I hope our employees don't think along this line. Aiassa: When this budget came to the controllers office to be reviewed we were in the we were ready to go to bid. process of completing the parking structure Young: Well you're 3 times threw all this there is no point in delaboring this forever and forever. The point is if that parking structure is built and when it is I think Councilman Shearer would appreciate it and I know the rest of us would. If they would paint it to match what we have because that will be the first paint job and we don't need alot of explanation back lets just hope that we can do that. Aiassa: All I don't want is that the enthusiasm someone kinda alittle in advance and gives me a little imput before. Like night with the Humane Society that someone gives me some imput that this might coming forth in 3 or 4 years. So I can plan it. Nichols: Well Mayor, I think the implication here is that when employees of the city request Page 24 budget appropriation that don't make alot of sense to the public or the council or that in fact give the impression of requesting a champagne livly hood on a beer budget to us a very common term it tends in the minds of the council and in the minds of the general public to empune the asking budget. It tends to create an inverence that the budget is loaded and any reductions in it are just taking off unnecessary fat. Now I know this isn't true George you know it isn't true but when you get this kind of a budget just •one item alone it probably can do more damage to the asking budget than anything you can imagine. And I think thats the point being made here. That when employees come into you and make submissions they should be uterly realistic and any cuts from that should be desperation cuts that you engage in. And when it comes out in print that some one is recommending to the council that we do this sort of thing it does damage to the budget concept. And thats the point I think we bring to you. Aiassa: What we've done I think basically and not to delay the question is that we aloud a certain degree of liberty to the departments to review all the needs and necessities that are pending their office. Now the sheet that Mr. Shearer is looking at 53 isn't one that we publish and distribute publicly. This is more of our in house confirmed worksheet that ties in with the master budget which is the summary budget. And I think this gives more the council an input of what we do administratively in cutting it out. Now I think Mr. Nichols point is well put is that if you're running an asterity budget somebody decides to build a swimming pool which is not very valid request. And I can see that point very clearly. Chappell: I notice Mr. Mayor, another item on here that a someone recommended that we have a re -roof job on fire station 1 and thats been eliminated I'm wondering if the roof has bad enought to recommend a re -roof job if that hasn't been thoroughly looked into because if that roof leaks you'll liable to have more damage than 11 hundred dollars. Eliot: No I don't believe that the case at the moment. Again this is a request that may go bad inspection does not reveal' that it is bad now. It is an older roof but it is still useable condition as far as we can determine and we on that basis we deferred taking care of it this year. Referring to the other item again I'm sure the action that the department head received that is was reviewed administratively on the higher item is sufficient that we will not see that again in his budget anyway. I'm sure our reaction was quite the same as yours was. The roof again is servicable and we did not arbitrarily cut it. Young: Aiassa: a way to show that if we prolong because of scraping and scaling. parking structure the only item Shearer: Alright anything else on 714 cipy building? I could make just 1 comment and I think this might have some validity to why it shows here. I think the departments have painting with the cost of painting increases And I think if they left off to match the that has no significance. make up some phony excuse like I've •Young: Eliot: Bingo, you hit it, thats all I've been saying for 20 minutes. If they want to paint it for some other reason don't been using my tools or something else. OK, how about 717. This is central services the area that incompases print shop, the data processing of the city, the mail room and the duplication funcitons for engineering and for other departments. Its salary budget is pretty much the same as last year. Its primary difference unusual from the other budgets is the increase is in service and supplies. And this is occasioned by the contractual item 53. Page 25 Nichols: In the budget so far in the salary accounts they appear all to be furturaly identical and all the prior years that I recall there has been an up -ward thrust in all salary projection due to normal step increases. Now I recongize and acknowledge the statement that was made earlier that we are achieving more seniority of positions and therefore fewer employees relatively .in absolutely moving up. But is this Wn area where there are no salry steps involved? Eliot: Well I believe that on this particular figure here that thats not quite true. If you were to look at the budget item 11 as reflected on budget worksheet B instead of C. 11 which you look on the detail budget or summary budget worksheet B you will see full time positions authorized as of last year of 16 thousand 588 dollars and verses a preliminary figure for this year 19 thousand 9 hundred dollars. The difference being in reading budget worksheet C is called current which current means people projected for step increases and therefore does not reflect last years salary accounts. Merely the same number of people including the step increases. Aiassa: I think the council should understand that we utilize off -shift firemen to print our work and" -this where the printing takes place. Now its coming to a day and to a time that will have to go full time. And at the present time it is not economically full-time position. Nichols: To delabor this for just moment longer for general information purposes. If you take the authorized and estimated figures and project them into the next year that figure is considerably in success of any expected normal increments that would apply to individual positions. *Eliot: That also includes a pep position. If you look on the second item. This is on budget worksheet C the second item is a pep position. Young: What about this item 45 educational wouldn't that more properly be moved over to personnel. And increase that particularly budget in light of the---- There's $900 projected into that. Eliot: Yes, it perhaps could be except personnel budget usually is a small sums of money or college type training. This does reflect a change in data processing within the department and we did wish the council to see a prpposal because it does include both educational expenses as well as an increased.lease rental expense and it is perhaps a little more convenient to see what the impact would be if it were on one budget. Young: On item 53 contractual which is substantailly increased about 11 thousand detailed on object worksheet 53. dollars what of these items are new its Eliot: I just mentioned it is primarily the proposal to up grade our present computer system the item of 10 thousand dollars he soft -ware is an item that is presently not in the budget we have an out going installation. There is a proposal to up grade are present computer system to something more in keeping with are needs. Our present computer is just about become the etsel of the IBM line. I believe there are about 2 other models 6400 in the entire San Gabiel Valley we have service men coming from IBM who have to call men from.the home office to service it because they don't see it that frequently. It is 7 years old and was evidently not a to Page 26 popular model not many were put out. It is relatively slow and for these reasons we believe we are not getting out moneys worth out of it. I'm quite confident were not. So therefore we are proposing to up grade are system we are not making a specific proposal for a specific machine we have a explored mchines our dollars are based on a mini -computer but we have not made any firm recommendation and we would not spend any of the money left if it were left in budget until we came back to the council with a proposal and showing equipment and asking permission to proceed. This is merely to Vrovide it if council were to give approval at a future day. Aiassa: This answers that invitation that I was given to IBM to be in their plant for 3 days. To utilize every avaliable type of machine in equipment thats avaliable be utilized in our operation. And this is where I was going to see where I get rid of this so called 6400 and replace it with a more modern machine. Nichols: You mean that cheap 3 day trip is really costing us 2 thousand dollars. Aiassa: Nichols: Lloyd: Aiassa: Nichols: *El iot Now Russ that want very nice because I didn't take it. May I ask a question? Is the stenographic services----- Didhe ask for the money instead? It was scheduled for later on in the fall. Is the stenographic services costs off set somewhere else in the budget by a decrease. No they are not. That is what is costing US. Nichols: The 71-72 authorized and estimated expenditure in this particular item, in fact on all of these items on worksheet 53 indicate that they are new expenditures. Under this classification this area. Eliot: No I'm afraid not. They didn't detour the items. The told expenditures last year if you'll look at the upper left hand column authorized last year was 29 thousand 5 hundred dollars for all those items. And the only increase that I can pin point for you is the 10 thousand dollars for the soft -ware on the computer which brings the 29 up t0 39 thousand dollars. Nichols: Why shouldn't these items then reflect themselfs on the first 2 columns here listed. Eliot: We just do not complete the detail in that manner to list each individual item. We can do so if the council's wishes us to do so. The principal change is supply and services and the piperating out lay and the principal cause of change in supply and services s the request for operating the computer. The change in the operating out lay are the 2 large items requested on budget worksheet D totaling 54 hundred dollars. Nichols: particular page you can't see where You can appreciate when you see all these listed here and totaled and none of them appear on the lst too columns. On that the increase is. Page 27 E1 iot : Aiassa: • • • I do appreciate and I do think it would be more informative if we did do that. We will attempt to do that in subsequent years. Mr. Mayor dinner is served........