10-20-1969 - Regular Meeting - MinutesLI ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
CITY OF WEST COVINA, CALIFORNIA
OCTOBER 20, 1969.
The adjourned regular meeting of the City Council was called to order
by Mayor Leonard S. Gleckman at 7:37 P.M.,,_in the City Manager's.
Conference Room at the West Covina City Hall. The Pledge of Allegiance
was led by Councilman Tom Gillum.
Mayor Gleckman stated this was a Joint Meeting with the Planning
Commission, and called for Roll Call on both bodies.
ROLL CALL
Present: Mayor Gleckman; Councilmen Gillum,, Lloyd,, Chappell;
Councilman Nichol's (Arrived at 7:45 P.M.)
Planning Chairman Adams, Commissioners Cox., Mayfield, Jackson,
Commission: Browne
Also Present: George Aiassa, City Manager
George Zimmerman, City Engineer
Lela Preston, City Clerk
Herman R. Fast, Public Service Director
Richard Munsel.l, Planning Director
Phil Wax, President - Chamber of Commerce .
Bob Christopherson (Press)
JOINT MEETING WITH PLANNING COMMISSION (Informal type meeting)
Chairman.Adams:
meetings are held about
completed and work to be
have a report before you
complete.
(In summary presentation of current Planning
Department Work —Schedule) We appreciate the
opportunity to meet on a joint basis. These
every 6 months to advise Council of projects
undertaken in the next six month period. You
from the Planning Director which is quite
Projects scheduled for Public Hearings:
Hillside Ordinance, Planned Unit Ordinance,_,and Minimum Grade Ordinance.
The Kennels Ordinance was adopted by Council; Zoning Ordinance Revision
R-3 and R-4 we heard concurrently and acted upon the Revision and this
has been passed to City Council for Public Hearing. The other major one
yet to do is the Industrial or Light .Manufacturing. Staff has done some
preliminary research but we have yet.to review. This would then complete
the comprehensive study and updating of all of our zoning ordinances.
As you know, this has been an on -going project for.the past several years.
Specific Plan #5 is the Grand Avenue area. We
have placed that on a project list as an item that we should be concerned
about and should take action on. The Surplus Land Survey is an on -going
item and has been expanded'to include other than the Flood Control por-
tion. We are,now looking and will be looking at lands left when the
Freeway is widened, or any other lands left because of major developments.
The Flood Control portion is completed but before bringing it to you we
wan,Ved to loot, at the lands left by the Freeway widening. The Capital
Improvement Program will be discussed in further detail tonight. This
was an item we indicated several months ago to you that we fel-t we would
and had an obligation to participate in. The Development of Policies
•regarding Street Improvements will be discussed tonight. We think.this
is a very important item and we have been concerned in trying to evolve
a general policy that the City would or could take in connection with
the acquiring of rights -of -way. The Zoning Map is a continuous effort
on the part of the staff in keeping it updated and current, particularly
as we are now in the process of adopting the new Zoning Ordinances,
rezoning and considering zone changes on property. The Planned
Community_yDevelopment Ordinance is also scheduled for a Public Hearing.
This has been on the program for 4 or 5 years and I feel we have done as
much research as we possibly can. General Plan - Housing Element, is one
(Councilman Nichols arrived at 7:45 P.M.)
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Joint Meeting with Planning Commission-.Cont'd.
part of the General Plan not covered by the consultant, and it is a
recent legal .requirement to have. a housing element as part of the
General Plan. This is something our own staff can do best.
These are the projects as we see them that
should require our attention. We would certainly solicit comments
from Council as to any items that you feel should be added, deleted
or rescheduled as to priority.
MASTER -PLAN OF -STREETS IMPLEMENTATION
Mayor Gleckman: Mr. Aiassa informed us that the County might
become involved with regard to Walnut Creek
Parkway, which is great except I hate to wait
ten to fifteen months longer while they make the necessary study.
Mr. Aiiassa: The Master Plan of Streets as proposed for
Walnut Creek Parkway is the are of greatest
concern to Council at this time and if we can
get the County to help us and have a detailed study made by a consultant
it would be a saving of several thousand dollars to us.
Chairman Adams: This was an item that was pointed out in the
General Plan as being deficient and we would
concur. My own personal observation is that we
have been deficient in this particular phase of planning, particularly
in undeveloped areas. To summarize what I think is the real concern,.
we talk about raw land now and talk about land to be developed later on,
we are talking about anywhere from five times up in cost to require the
rights -of -way once the land is developed. Particularly in the un-
developed areas , we should be concentrating our efforts and developing
a Master Plan of Streets, and a specific plan. If we concur in the need
for such a plan then we should take action to establish rights -of -way
•as early as possible in areas not developed. Throughout our City, the
Master Plan suggests street improvements, etc., and in the areas
developed we :now it will be a costly item.
Mayor Gleckman: Didn't we receive from the Planning Commission
sometime ago a Master Plan of Streets?
Chairman Adams: Yes. As you know we did receive from the
General Plan studies a very comprehensive
report with some pretty definite recommendations
and this was recommended to Council as being an item that should be
adopted and become one of our planning tools. We have gone further and
recommended a specific alignment because we felt again here is an area
that has not been developed but development could take place at anytime
and we felt it important to develop some guidelines for the Commission
to work with in providing how far we should go in trying to provide for
the rights -of -way and secondly, developing some general policy .as' to how
the rights -of -way would be acquired and improvements built. Most cities
and the county agencies have guidelines as to who would do what in
developing major and secondary streets.
Commissioner Cox: We have.a General Plan and zone change cases
are before us all the time and request for
variances and frequently we note that in the
staff report they submit that the General Plan says this as such and
such a use, anj this is then the reason for approval or denial by the
0 Commission. But in remembering the General Plan there is in zoning
only a guide to proposed land uses. It is only a guide and there are
many other criterias to zoning and one of the criterias in considering a
zone is the form of access and the type of access proposed, volume of
traffic, etc. etc. One thing, I think equally important as a criteria
for considering zoning in addition to a General Plan, are your highways
and we are absent that. We are making decisions on zoning matters,
frankly without one of the primary criterias that govern zoning. Really
we are considering zoning in light of things that we have which are
really not anything we do have. It puts a tremendous burden on staff,
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ADJ. C.C. 10/20/69 Page Three
Joint Meeting with Planning Commission - Cont'd.
on the Planning Commission and. Council, not to have one of the primary
criterias in zoning matters.
Mayor Gleckman: One of the problems we found at City Council
level was the information,.that we assumed
that if we adopted a particular parcel, for
example West Covina Parkway, Council discussed if the developer wanted
to develop in the path of the Parkway that the City may be forced to
buy that piece of land in order to retain the West Covina Parkway
alignment, and if not prepared to come up with the money to buy that
land at that time ... I think, that was one of the reasons why we didn't
adopt the West Covina Parkway alignment. Now getting into the Master
Plan of Streets, so members of Council and the Commission are aware,.
once we adopt this if we would go along and say. ---now we have a Master
Plan of Streets let's adopt and implement.- .then basically we are
doing the same thing with all the streets that we talked about with
regard to West Covina Parkway. Am I correct?
Chairman Adams: But we are not concerned with local streets,.
only as far as the major and secondary streets.
Maygr Gleckman: I know, but you are talking about a Master .Plan
of Streets anq in many of the streets in the
city we will have the same particular problem.
Amar Road, for example. With al the undeveloped property that is
there if we would decide on a Master Plan of Streets for that road and
a developer came in with a plan he would have to follow the Master Plan;
of Streets that was adopted by the Commission and the Council. My.,next!
question would be, before it came to the Commission, who were the people
involved that laid out the Master Plan of Streets for the City of West
Covina? Our General Plan consultants, was it a traffic study that we
had staff do, etc., give us some of the answers for the record.
• Chairman Adams: Like most of the General Plan work it wasa
joint effort and in this particular area it
was a traffic consultant and the. General Plan
consultant and the staff participating.. The outcome of it was a,
recommendation that a Master Plan of Highways be established.
Mayor Gleckman: Wouldn't you think this would go to a Public
Hearing?
Chairman Adams: We had a Public Hearing.
Mayor Gleckman: But Council did not have a Public Hearing.
What we are trying to get from you is what. has
taken place up.to now and if Council concurs
then we would direct staff to set the Master Plan of Streets for a
Public Hearing. At that time the Council would then decide -.whether to
change, send back, adopt or whatever. If any member of -Council have
any questions I would think now is the time to ask the questions so we
have the benefit of this discussion along with the staff report when
it does come up.
Commissioner Cox; May I add one further comment - the basic con-
cern about future commitments with regard to
the right-of-way. This isn't any different
than any County, State or anything else; the State has a Master Plan of
Streets and County has a Master Plan of Streets and they are confronted
with this all the time. You are never going to get a precise set of
rules as to the treatment of right-of-way. Some will be dedicated and
some will. have to be bought. Most of the larger jurisdictions do have
.these .Master Plans and are able to function without getting themselves
into a bundle of problems as far as a right-of-way is concerned, so to.
.that extent they are operable. The mechanics are something you can
decide on later.
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ADJ. C.C. 10/20/69 Page Four
Joint. Meeting with Planning Commission - Cont'd.
Commissioner Mayfield: My thought was if it is a difficult problem
for Council to come up with a total Master
'Plan as the Commission presented to you, a
large number of these streets are existing streets and we have two
values, in getting them Master Planned, and one is establishing widths
which will help in dealing with the Precise Plans for establishing the
setbacks. Also I think.it would be a useful thing for our Capital
Improvement. .Program, the portion on street improvements. I :share
Mr. Cox's idea that we have to process thresholds on rights -of -way
acquisition. (Mentioned problems of other cities) I sort of feel
that the Gas Tax revenue may come to the cities in a larger return in
four or five years and at that time you may be able to take your
right-of-way acquisitions along with your Capital Improvements and I
would urge you to get prepared.
Mayor Gleckman: That is a good point.
Commissioner Jackson: I am not quite up on why we have to be ready
to pay the money right on the line when we
come to it, I don't recall this being a problem
before and we used to have a Master Plan of Streets & Highways. But
we do have to plan ahead and we are continually stumbling over it, and
certainly if you do�,'t come up with a Master Plan of Streets you are not
going to achieve the end you want I doii't believe there is a pre -
spacing of the center lines here.
Councilman Nichols: I think there is some element of transfixation
here between the issue of adopting a General Plan
of Streets and the addition of Walnut Creek Park-
way. If we have to include all streets within the Master Plan as being
germane to the Master Plan than we have a problem. I don't believe
Council raised this point of land acquisition relative to the Master Plan -
in general, I think it was one specific adoption., It is true that the
State and Counties have to consider this problem of mass acquisition of
land but it is equally true that municipalities in the South that they
have gotten their mass land acquisition through dedication. The
Council's concern has been in terms of a mass,land acquisition greatly in
advance of our fiscal capabilities of consummating whether through
condemnation or dedication and in the Council's expression this
particular project involved extensive condemnation. That this would in
fact be beyond our capabilities and if so did we have the right to
delineate a road that we might not be able to consummate anything in
the foreseeable future. The Council's discussion as I recall limited it
to this one street.
.Mayor Gleckman The only thing is this one street is also
included in this Master Plan. I brought it up
because we experienced this one and we may run
into more. So if we are prepared to adopt the plan then we are talking
about all the streets.
Councilman Nichols: I appreciate that. Only I was thinking the
alignment of Walnut Creek Parkway,,. -goes through
developed areas and the acquisition cost would
exceed anything we have contemplated so far.
Chairman .Adams: And the problems there we would again have
in the areas of such as the easterly end of the
. City unless we provide for those areas prior.
Councilman Nichols: I agree, but if the Council in its great
wisdom determined it was'not practical to
build the route - period. Then there would be
no point here or in that event to take land anywhere, but that,is a
political decision.
Mayor Gleckman: Yes but political entities change. What we
may decide not to do now we may set the
groundwork for the next Council to do. Once
we adopt the Master Plan of Streets we4may have someway to go and at
ADJ. C.C. 10/20/69 1 Page Five
the same time we have an obligation to the Planning Commission and the
City to have a Master Plan whether it is implemented or not. I agree
it .is a political decision but we should decide whether this is the
instrument we want to govern us for planning the future of this
community and then whateverthis Council or future Councils do that is
up to them but we are providing that future internal circulation
whether the City can afford it or not.
Commissioner Jackson: Once you actually precise it I don't think
you are obligated, but this is saying this is
the way we want it to go and someone can always
amend it.
Chairman Adams: Take..Azusa Avenue for example, it appeared on
all the maps as a broken line, as a future
highway and as a result of that we now have
Azusa Avenue. Again that represents' -.what. we are talking about in un-
developed areas and we were fortunate enough to have only a few owners
involved and.the City got the rights -of -way free and again it was a City -
County -State right�of-way improvement. The same thing is happening to
Amar Road. The phase that has been improved, the developer did grant the
right-of-way, did put in the improvements and some day the City or
someone else is going to have to come back and complete the improvements,
but this is the way these kinds of .improvements develop. It is the
common way of doing it. That is the only way I know of. In Mr. Wakefield's
absence, I would practice law by saying I am not sure that we have any
legal obligation, it is just a case of going in and ta,;ing the action now
and then we put up or shut up when someone comes in and says "I am
ready to go, what is the City going to do now as far as acquiring the
right-of-way or participating, or just what happens."
Commissioner Cox: It is hard to tell where we are going to get
the money, it could come from the State or from
the County. It just depends on how.it looks
• to them and what help it is -to them. I know in other cities they are
.always opening up new streets, now they get the money somewhere.
Chairman Adams: I think this happened in the past,, we developed
when they came in. We simply required as a
condition of the Precise Plan that they offer
dedication of Walnut Creek Parkway.
Mayor Gleckman:
That is what I was trying to point out to
Council, that once we adopt the Master Plan
of Streets, we may have someway to go, and at
the sametime we do have
an obligation to provide the future internal
circulation and we are providing
it now and what the future will bring
we don't know.
Councilman Gillum:
I think it would eliminate some of the pro-
blems we would run into with developers and
homeowners. I don't think we would be ful-
filling our duties unless
we come up with some general plan for the
streets, and as you said
Mr. Jackson, we can amend it later.
Mayor Gleckman:
Well I think what the Planning Commission is
telling us is that regardless of what our
feelings are on West Covina Parkway as to
whether you will be able
to implement, acquire or buy the rights -of -way,
we should have a Master
Plan of Streets which includes West Covina
' Parkway and all others,
and then take it as it comes about, and I am
incli.nyd to`agree with that. I would like to find out whether Council
would like to discuss the .Master Plan of Streets further with the
Commission, or we accept,the recommendation and put it' -up for a Public
Hearing.
Councilman Nichols:
Again, there seems to be some implication that
one's feelings expressed with regard to West
Covina Parkway implied some distaste for a
general plan of streets
being adopted and I certainly did not mean to
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ADJ. C.C. 10/20/69 Page Six
Joint .Meeting with Planning Commission - Cont'd.
imply that to the Commission. Secondly, as I felt before and still
feel, the final decision*on adopting.Walnut Creek Parkway alignment
as part of the Master Plan of Streets is. strictly'a political
decision based on the implications connected therewith. (Detailed)
I have felt and still feel that ultimately-the':Council will have to
reach a total answer in the terms of a political decision,'and I am
ready to go on when the rest of the Council is.
• Chairman Adams: I feel the other part of this is something
we may not be able to solve even after many
meetings, but we might be able to set the
format tonight and appoint an ad hoc commmittee to undertake a study
on how the City could undertake this. This.study would require a
period of time and should start now as to how the City might acquire
these rights -of -way improvements. We would like to see a City
policy on implementing the Master Plan of Streets..
Mayor Glechman: The first''thing the Council might take into
consideration would be setting up the Master
Plan of Streets for a Public Hearing, in order
that Council adopt it, and then take the implementation at a later date
but tonight prior to assigning it to the Planning Commission, we might
kick it around a bit, the different ways it could be handled and see
what suggestions we get.: I would hate to see Council adopt a policy
without a recommendation from the Planning Commission.
Chairman Adams: We would not want to pass one on to you
without your comments since it is going to
involve considerable.expenditure of money.
Mayor Gleckman: That is why I thought we ought to discuss it
tonight. Does the Council have any objections
• to a motion to set for Public Hearing the
Master Plan of Streets?
So moved by Councilman Gillum, seconded by
Councilman Chappell.
Mr. Aiassa: As a point of information, Mr. Mayor, we had
the hearing set for the. Master Plan of Streets
on September 8, 1969, and it was held over to
December 8, 1969.
Motion withdrawn. a
Mayor Gleckman: We will then discuss dedication of rights -of -
way, on how the Council might feel on this.
Council's feeling on the 1911 Act - this has
come up many times at Council meetings, the fact that a street was a
secondary street and a well travelled street and should they dedicate,
etc. etc. 'If we adopt a Master Plan of Streets I would think that
whatever is on that plan should primarily�be the streets on which we
tall-, about requiring dedication versus full improvements, no charge.
My point was you are not talking about throughout the entire city on
individual streets, but Master Planned Streets only. We have to have
different ways -of acquiring right=of-way, depending whether the street
is a Lark Ellen or a single street that is unimproved. I am inclined
•to go along with something that we:have been fighting with for a long
time with the 1911 act, we.always had to go in and pay for the land
and then turnaround and assess them for. whatever_ improvements we were
going to put in. I think anything on the Master Plan of Streets we
should put in -full improvements at the City's expense. I think that is
what Councilman Nichols has been sta.ting for sometime.
Councilman Chappell': The only thing aboutthat statement, we talked
about Cameron Avenue between Lark Ellen and
Azusa, and I came in`and asked about that and I
was told when I suggested that, that we would only be able to develop
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ADJ. C.C. 10/20/69 Page Seven
Joint .Meeting with Planning Commission - Cont'd.
less than half the streets in town because we don't have the money to do
what you are stating. Has that picture changed or do we have funds now
where we can actually go out and pay for he improvement if they dedicate
the land?
Mr. Aiassa: No. The point that this report brings out is
and we are talking about three different levels.
One is the residential or limited area, where a
person will not get a great deal of benefits in improvements and the
City doing it and this we do have the funds to do. Then we have the
major streets where we have Gas Tax .Funds and this can also be done in a
limited manner. Now if you are.going to do it wholesale, where it will
take 2 or 3 years, funds are limited. You will have to determine the
areas you want to do it in.
Commissioner Cox: I think these can be set up in some pattern
as to priority. The improvements on some
streets are not that much of a benefit, and
in other areas the very dedication of the street and the improvement
of that street will probably change the character of the land adjacent
to it. In fact as I understand it that is the only legal reason you
have to require dedication. (Explained in further detail)
Mayor Gleckman: Out of this discussion I hope we set up an
Ad Hoc Committee but I would like to get all
the ideas on the table so those on the
Committee get the general .temperment:.
Commissioner Cox: I believe we could set some criteria for
staff to follow and they could put it forth
in a recommendation to us, such as in a
residential area, for example Cameron Avenue. There are a number of
streets of that nature which would come under a certain set. Then you
have Walnut Creel: Parkway and the raw land. I know the County requires
this and there is no reason why we can't - if it is a dedication of
the street the property is in a position of being developed, but
absence of the dedication it couldn't be. The improvement depending
here again on what type of use you are talking about. If the property
is proposed for residential subdivision purposes the normal procedure
is to require the developed to improve to the cost of a 60' standard
and the city mould participate in the differential;. -.to bring it to an
arterial. highway. Now on a commercial, frequently they are required
to go to the center line.
Mayor Gleckman: Well that is for the Ad Hoc Committee to
discuss. What we want now is different
formulas that the Ad Hoc Committee might work
on.
Chairman Adams: The staff did considerable research and they
did come up with many different ways. So I
think it is important that they consider them
all and then come up with a recommendation.
Mayor Gleckman: Yes, and you had better include and discuss
alternates. (Related an incident where the
owner just refused dedication even though it
would cost him nothing for he improvements.) My point is that
someway it has to be an official act of the recommendation to the
neighbors - - that we are sorry but our policy is this and because
Mr. So and so won't do it we have to do it this way, and then credit
them back. I don't think you can have it just one way or the other.
You have to be flexible enough to deal with all the possibilities.
Mr. Adams, I would .like to see you appoint two members of the Planning
Commission and I will appoint two members of Council, and I would like
them to wort: with staff - Mr. Aiassa, and if possible have it ready
at the time of the Master Plan of Streets hearing, at least some type
of formula in case the question is asked of Council as to how we are
going to implement.
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ADJ. C.C. 1.0/20/69 Page Eight
Joint Meeting with Planning Commission - Cont°d.
Commissioner Mayfield: I think it would be helpful in coming up with
the policies to also state the approximate
price tags.
.Mayor Gleckman: That will be up to the Committee, this will
entail some research.
Chairman Adams appointed Commissioners Cox
and Mayfield. Both accepted. Mayor Gleckman advised he would appoint
two Councilmen later in the meeting.
New Studies:
Azusa Avenue
Galaxie Area
Chairman Adams: The Council did suggest we study the Azusa
Avenue area and we are suggesting that we might
also make a study of the Galaxie Area. We are
looking at these two areas similar to what we have done in.the other
areas. We are talking about areas where we now get new developments
that come before us and we get people in the areas expressions over
existing conditions and they are not necessarily concerned about the
particular proposal coming up before us but they take the opportunity
to express a concern over the way things are and suggest things they
think should be done which in no way relates to the proposal before us.
This makes me think that perhaps we should be looking in,greater depth
in other areas than the particular Precise Plan or request of zoning,
we should loot: into areas that encompass more than one particular site.
Particularly in the Galaxie area. The people in that area came before
us in quite a lengthy discussion last Wednesday night and the thrust of
the comments were directed more against the deficiencies .... in that area
rather than the proposed development. So we are suggesting these two
areas for an i.ndepth study and you may have others you want considered.
0 Mayor Gleckman: I would
known to our
etc.. Because
Galaxie area
so separated
there such as
in your
tions or
staff - how it will
I think really that
closer to the City.
by vacant land and I
police, fire, etc.
like to have you take the Galaxie area
study and tie it in with any conversa-
feelings that Trans -Union has made
tie in, how soon it will be developed,
is the salvation of bringing the
It is unfortunate that Galaxie is
know some of the problems they have
Chairman Adams: In travelling through the area and in their
discussions I think they don't'have adequate
commercial facilities.
Mayor Gleckman: They don't.
Chairman Adams: We should perhaps look again at what is now
happening or may happen in these areas and
particularly how it could be accommodated.
Commissioner Mayfield:
made. They brought out
in although a lot where
power, etc. I think if
of help rather than let
One of the' things I felt about this was in the
interest of cohesion in the City we ought to
show an .interest in at least having a study
all the community service's they have a deficiency
not city controlled such as water pressure,
we went in and showed seom concern it would be
it wait and fester into a real problem.
Mayor Gleckman: I agree with you. We held a Council meeting
there and didn't get too many people out. Some of the problems we did
get, where as you say, things we had nothing to do with. I think -what
they need really is what you say, some interest shown, some explanation
of what we can or can't do, what has to be done, etc. I would suggest
that perhaps the Planning Commission hold a meeting. there. I would be
glad to attend as I know other members of Council will and staff.
As you know communications throughout the country are bad and people
don't usually make the effort unless it finally hits them, but then
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ADJ. C.C. 10/20/69 Page Nine
Joint Meeting with Planning Commission - Contad.
communications is a two-way street.
Commissioner Jackson: We could break up the General Plan that has to
do with their area and bring it to them for
discussion.
Councilman Nichols: Perhaps that is where we'erred. We have held
two meetings in that area and I think we let each
resident know by mail, but we sort of said come
and tell us your problems - father is here. And it.didn°t go over too well.
Perhaps some of these concerns that we know are theirs, if'we raise
these issues - at least we should try it again.
Councilman Gillum: There was a large number of them...here the other
night and they were not adverse'to expressing
their feelings. So they do feel they are part
of the City, but I got the impression they feel* -that we don't think they
are a part of the City, and this is a bad situation.'
Mayor Gleckman: Anything we can do .to help and let us know in
advance of your meeting. I think the impetus
of bringing this study to them might help.
Chairman Adams: A Lot of their concerns would have to do with
our Capital Improvements Program, they are con-
cerned with lack of parks, fire and police facilities. I.think we can
look to these. kinds of things to spark an interest. Perhaps as we get
further into these kinds of discussions, particularly the implementation
of the General Plan, perhaps we will identify a lot of those in that
area and certainly any new proposals of magnitude in or close to their
area, we should relate to them. We can look to those areas to develop
some communications.
0 Mayor Gleckman:
Let us know when you are going to have the
meeting.
Chairman Adams: Are there any other areas we should make a
study of at this time?
Mayor Gleckman: Well we have given you Azusa Avenue and primarily
because we have implemented something there and
we have a referendum before the City, and we had
a letter from Mr. Batchelder .regarding annexation to the City, and you
have the improvement down in Industry which feeds into the Freeway now
which will create a tremendously good access all the way down Azusa
Avenue to all the freeways, which I think. will increase the traffic
coming to the City and going through the City. You should incorporate
all that in your study. We have had a lot of comments as to what we
should have on Azusa and what we should not have; comments on the
existing zoning on the Brutocoa property; the proposed zoning on the
Handler property; the Batchelder letter, the Rolling Green development;
what effect the new annexation from Suburban Water will have on Azusa
Avenue; the Huntington Beach Freeway alignment, even hhough we have
never been able to pin them down. I think the Commission could pioneer
this thing and come back to us with an Azusa Avenue Study similar to the
Orange Avenue study and others that we have made. It may relieve some
of the tensions throughout the community or it may .increase them.
• Guidelines on Current Problems or "Current Queries"
Drive-in or Drive-thru Restaurant Fotomat Precise Plan
Chairman Adams: Frankly, we are looking for some direction
on these uses. Maybe Council can indicate
whether we should be considering these uses
under our Unclassified Use Permit because of the uniqueness of the
problems attendant.
9 -
ADJ`. C.C. 10/20/69 Page Ten
Joint Meeting with Planning Commission - Cont°d.
Mayor Gleckman: I think speaking to the guidelines regarding
Drive-in'and Drive-thru Restaurants, since I.
have been on Council it has been my opinion
that it is most unfortunate and I think we have really hurt this
community from the standpoint of allowing Taco Houses, Hot Dog Stands,
etc., right in the center of our commercial city. I feel it has hurt
the development and the actual inviting into the City of quality
commercial developments because there is no way of doing away with
isthese things. I think we made the mistake of putting these uses into
Commercial zones. Where we wanted our commercial concentrated we
weren't explicit enough as to the type of uses, but then maybe in those
days they had to take what they could get. I feel that we have reached
the stage that there is no real reason or need for a Drive-in or Drive-
thru Restaurant of the type that we presently have in the City of West
Covina in the presentcommercial zones of the'City - in the regional
as well as the outlining. This type of usage, in my personal opinion,
does not breed high quality commercial development or adjacent to high
quality commercial development, and it has been and will continue to be
a source of police problems, unattractiveness and the best example if the
Jack in the Box. I am not knocking Jack in the Box per se, but it does'
not typify quality commercial for the City of West Covina. There may be
and I am sure there is, a place for that type of restaurant, maybe north
Azusa Avenue where it is. I think if we take these types of usages out
of the commercial a)ne and put them in the .Unclassified Use Permit section
then the Commission, as well as the Council, can so direct where these
types of uses will go.
Commissioner Mayfield: But I wonder if it will stand up legally.
Mayor Gleckman: It will if we put it under the Unclassified Use
Permit section. Actually I am not shoving them
out or in, only saying I would not recommend a
•Hot Dog Stand right next to say Home Savings & Loan, and right now if he
wanted to he could.
Councilman Gillum: This relates to what I saw last Sunday night and
I don't mean to be critical of our neighbors to
the north, but below San Bernardino Road - the
wash car rack,..the theatre and the area in there, that is going to be the
biggest garbage -trash community you have ever seen in the next five years.
We have an example of that in West Covina, a franchise restaurant on
the corner of Glendora and Garvey, they put up a nice restaurant and
it went under and now someone else has it. I am deeply concerned that
we can work oufselves into the same position as you see on, Azusa Avenue
from the San Bernardino Road south.
Mayor Gleckman: Also Glendora Avenue.
Commissioner Jackson: I think what you should do is take them out of
the Ordinance and don't allow them as a use,
put it in the Unclassified Use Permit section.
Councilman Lloyd: I would concur very strongly with what
Mayor Gleckman said. If you want a quality
community one of the things you have to do is
set the criteria. The way you set the plan and implement it sets the
community. I am incensed over this compaction of franchises - Minnie
Pearl°s, Hot Dog Stands, FAomats, etc. It is just junk and if you want
•a junky community this is the way to have it. If you don't want a
junky community I think very definitely we can keep them out.
Mayor Gleckman: The reason for the motion made by Council on
Fotomat and passed on to,the Commission was
that we felt we should ta:e Drive-in.and Drive-
thru°s out of the commercial present existing zones and put them into
the Unclassified Use Permit section. If that implies that we have put
them in a definite place in any area I would lice to see the meaning of
it.
! Im
ADJ. C.C. 10/20/69 Page Eleven
Joint Meeting with Planning Commission - Cont'd.
Councilman Nichols: But that motion doesn't include all of the
types of uses we are referring to here,
what is your reaction to that? A number of
these little type shops on Glendora survive on their walk-in traffic.
Mayor Gleckman: I think that any particular one that has a
sit down you have to leave in the commercial
zones.,
• Councilman Nichols: The one you cited, Jack in,the Box, would
qualify.
Mayor Gleckman: No, not if they have both, if they have 'one.
I,am discussing a type of walk-in restaurant
exclusively, not a drive in. You can't tell
a guy what kind of a restaurant to have.
Councilman Chappell: You consider a Taco restaurant with a little
patio outside.
Commissioner Mayfield: That is what the Mayor is saying:,: it has two
functions.
Commissioner Cox: I agree as regards to the control. The
Drive-in Restaurants are taking on the same
magnitude that gas stations took on a few
years. Many cities are putting a moratorium on them right now and I
think it is happening to us right now and where you draw the line on
restaurants is that you may able to put them in the unclassified
use permit and then we could set some policies .that would govern. For
example, so many seats and so many feet from another say McDonald:'.s or
Jack in the Box, or whatever. I would like to know where the nearest
similar restaurant is because if they are within a certain number of
feet of each other I think the area is basically serviced for that use.
These are the things that would control.
Mayor Gleckman: I am talking about type of use and not uses,
because I think we get into an area of
competitive capitalism when we talk about you
can't have six restaurants in a row. I am speaking strictly of drive-in
and drive-thru type restaurants.
Councilman Nichols: I thin]i the most able statement that has come
up was'the one that perhaps we should come up
with an answer that involvesthe placing of
all restaurants in this Unclassified Use Permit and let the Planning
Commission and Council in its wisdom weigh all the facts whether it is
a need for it, or whether it is detrimentalto the health and welfare.
Commissioner Jackson: That won't get rid of what we presently have.
Mayor Gleckman: No, but it would help in the future, but I
hesitate because it would be singling out a
particular industry, a guy could say when are
you going to include shoe stores, etc., otherwise I think itis a good
idea.
Commissioner Mayfield:, The Ordinance indicates the use that can be
considered in,a zone so you wouldn't divorce
it from a zone by putting it in the Unclassi-
fied Use section. You have to go back in the chart and indicate what
zones you would consider.
Mayor Gleckman: You are going to have to.set up some criteria
for an Unclassified Use Permit that doesn't
exist
Commissioner Mayfield: So when you get to the zones you would consider
it, it would seem to me you would have to say
all the commercial zones. Can,you think of any
11
0
ADJ. C.C. 10/20/69 Page Twelve
Joint Meeting with Planning Commission - Cont'd.
of the residential classifications that we would want to offer this too?
Mayor Gleckman: No, your control is the Unclassified Use Permit.
General Discussion. THE CHAIR DECLARED A RECESS AT 9 P.M. RECONVENED AT
9:14 p.m.
Chairman Adams: The Unclassified Use Permit we have set for a
Public Hearing on November 5th and I have asked
Mr. Munsell to put together some additional uses
along the lines we have discussed tonight, that we might consider at that
time.
Councilman Gillum,: These so called "nuisance" things, such as the
franchises - the 7-11's. It seems like every
time we have a request for a service station
we get a7-11 request and they are getting to be problems in certain
areas, especially when near school areas. I am wondering if the
Commission could consider these types of uses that cause their own
unique problems as far as cleanliness, over saturation, etc.
Commissioner Mayfield: Should we call them "marginal enterprises"?
Chairman Adams: It is perhaps a nicer term. We could preamble
the Unclassified Uses by saying ".-of such a
special nature or unique characteristics as to
make them impractical in their inclusion, etc
Mayor Gleckman: Now let's talk about the Fotomat - are we
talking about it in the same sense as the
drive-in drive-thru?
Commissioner Cox: Yes.
Commissioner Mayfield: I think. so. How about the flower
in Eastland?
Mayor Gleckman: Yes, you would still control it locationwise
under the Unclassified Use Permit.
Commissioner Cox: That was the problem with the Fotomat, they
didn't require an Unclassified Use Permit.
Mayor Gleckman: But if we put it in the drive-in drive-thru
usage it would.
Commissioner Cox: It is this type of stuff that does bother you.
I think in the Unclassified Use Permit if we
are going to amend it we should go further with
it and include drive-in and drive-thru service facilities - - we should
explore all of this.
(Further discussion on drive-in drive-thru's including Fotomat)
Mayor Gleckman: If the man meets the criteria it is very
difficult to turn it down. For the record,
• normally what we will do - we may find a
traffic problem as far as the Fotomat was concerned and recommend it go
back to the Planning Commission, giving us time - so we do have some
stop gaps.
Let's discuss the Hillside Development Standards.
It is lucky we don't have a tremendous influx of development at the
present time for hillsides because we don't have hillside standards. I
feel a great deal of land in this community that is going to be developed
is hillside .land, so I would like to see the Commission.make posthaste, as
well as the staff, in getting a hillside ordinance as well as a grading
plan for hillside standards.
- 12 -
ADJ. C.C. 10/20/69 Page Thirteen
Joint meeting with the Planning Commission - Cont'd.
Chairman Adams: The Hillside Ordinance, the Planned Residential
Development and Planned Community Development -
these have all been scheduled for hearings
before too long, or will be.
Mr. Zimmerman: The grading ordinance was postponed on request
a couple of times in order to do some late input.
• Commssioner Mayfield: The Hillside standards are basically to try to
bring the esthetic considerLtions in Take the
existing terrain and preserve certain things that
might have some amenity in the area. And it will have quite a bit to say
about site development; there will be more of an encouragement to build on
a step pattern. This is a different view than what we have had in the
hills before, so I think it will take quite a bit of thought on everyone's
part when we hear the implementation of it generally.
Chairman Adams: In regard to the Implementation of the General
Plan: We requested staff to go back and pull
out of the General Plan those items that fall
under the implementation stage and we find two pages of them listed in
:the material presented tonight. (Mentioned in further detail) Some of
the things not programmed yet are items having to do with additional
park: sites, additional library sites, etc. And we as a Commission
sometime ago had occasion'to have Mr. Gingrich appear before us in
connection with Galster Park and we indicated to him if he would convey
our desire to meet with the Recreation & Parl-z Commission at their
convenience and discuss with them any of these things that would involve
US.
Mayor Gleckman: On this land acquisition for parrs, as you
• recall we received a request for some lights
on the Maverick Field and at that;,time it was
the feeling of the Council that we should go into land acquisition
for parks, particularly Cortez Park and.specifically.the Zoelle
property, the Hardwood property and the church, and Suburban Water
situation. Now I don't know what is happening as to whether they are
implementing that type of study - Mr. Aiassa, is the Recreation & Park
Commission doing this?
Mr. Aiassa:
They are starting it.
Mayor Gleckman: Could the Planning Commission through its
impetus make a request that they put this into
the hopper as far as priority is concerned.
Mr. Aiassa: It will be done.
Mayor Gleckman: I think after taking a look at the Park on
Sunday - that par],,: could really be developed
regionally and it would have so much more to
offer with additional space and with the park tax imposed for Galster
improvements, we could at least plan for the future in regard to land
acquisition.
Councilman Lloyd: I think: in all fairness to Mr. Aiassa we had a
chat about this right after the Maverick thing,
and I know Mr. Aiassa spoke to Mr. Gingrich, as
I did, on the possibility of expanding and I think Mr. Gingrich already
has a plan on it.
Mayor Gleckman: Okay. I just thought I would throw it in - land
acquisition for parrs. I think: we are going to
be much better off in trying to acquire land
adjacent to our parks rather than go out and try and acquire new parrs.
Chairman Adams: This was purely put on the agenda to get your
reactions. They,.came out of the General Plan
Study. We accepted the recommendations as being
valid so the,,important thing now is to implement these proposals. We are
0
ADJ. C.C. 10/20/69 Page Fourteen
Joint Meeting with Planning Commission - Cont'd.
not attempting to tell others what they should or should not be doing,
we are offering our services and cooperation to get these items
accomplished and will meet with any and all groups who have a direct
responsibility.
Mayor Gleckman: But you, as a Planning Commission, would be
the ones to come to the City Council with the
recommended Capital Improvement projects for the
future.
Chairman Adams: Yes, that would be the final outcome.
Commissioner Mayfield: That Ridge Parkway - if that;area should develop
it would seem to me it has some planning needs.
It could be similar to the regional park at
Berkley - it would be an ideal theme to try and carry out.
Mayor Glec]>man: I agree, yet when I look over the. -Capital
Improvement Projects on this list it is
surprising how many tie in with the implementa-
tion of the streets, now whether this was intentional or not......
Chairman Adams:
We thought it would be timely to poll you on
these particular items.
Commissioner Cox: I have one further comment. In our Planning
meetings we go thru lengthy hearings and I
think all of the commissioners will give some
expression as to the reasons why they vote a certain way on a particular
issue. I know the Planning meeting minutes are now in brief and most of
the conclusions that we express represents the meat of the hearing. I
I think that you are not getting the benefit of our thinking, you are
getting the vote sum which might represent 100% and sometimes in that
vote there is a 60/ or 40% thinking. I hate to put a big burden on
who ever will have to do it,, but I think frankly the City Council should
have the benefit of our discussions at the Planning meetings. I think
in many cases our minutes would be extremely helpful as to how you would
like to go.
Mayor Gleckman:
I agree.
Mr. Aiassa: As of October 1 _ Nancy Beardsley will be taking
the minutes of meetings and they will be taken
in greater detail, not verbatim but in more detail.
Mayor Gleckman: Fine. Mr. Aiassa, I would like to have a copy
of the Commission reports on everything that
goes to the Commission for a hearing. All I
get at present is either recommended or denied, no staff reports on the
items and I would like a copy of the reports as well.
Mr Aiassa: Normally, Mr. Mayor, you do get the material
but by'the time it is on the'Council agenda
several weeks have elapsed and then you only get
a summary report.
Mayor Gleckman: Yes I understand that, and that is why I am as;-
ing that the staff report be resent. _.....
Chairman Adams: You have a list of the future Planning Programs
(briefly summarized). Most of them are in
progress and items that haven't been initiated
as yet we will be most happy to participate in anyway we can with any
group having to do with that particular item.
14 -
ADJ. C.C. 10/20/69
Page Fifteen
Joint Meeting with
Planning
Commission - Cont°d.
Commissioner Jackson:
The
League of Cities on the
planning end of
it,
the biggest noise you
have is the subject
of
pollution. I think the
City, with the size
we are and with our future,
that we should start some
sort of program
on pollution.
Mayor Gleckman:
• Commissioner Jackson:
Are you talking about smog?
Pollution, per se. Over -population, air,
water,- etc.
Mayor Gleckman: The Engineering Department from the water
situation, there is a Water Quality Control
Board that oversees all municipalities.
(Related a recent incident.) In the otber pollution area, people,
smog, gas fumes, etc., I.think this is a big area and I agree with you.
There are several committees that are active throughout.Southern
California and until you have some material gathered on the subject -
well I just don't.know what we can do about it.
Councilman Lloyd: We are pretty well preempted in the area of
some of these things. Although I think your
idea is an excellent one. Perhaps we could
have a committee that would be responsible for this type of thing.
Mr. Aiassa: There are certain fields that the State has
taken the preemption on.
Mayor Gleckman: What I would like to see done is have the
Planning Commission request the minutes of
any type of conversations having to do with
pollution from the League°s Commission, and then as a Commission
you review and make a recommendation to this Council.
Commissioner Mayfield: How about maintaining contact with the
Regional Waterfalls Natural Board*
and the Water Pollution Board and ask for
copies of their minutes.
Mayor Gleckman: Anything that has to do with it. I met with
the Mayors of the San Gabriel Valley and the
Pomona Valley and we drafted a Resolution
which we were getting signed at the League of California Cities
conference and it was unfortunate that we weren't as strong as we tried
to be and we felt that this was a California problem and would have to
be solved in California by the legislature, and we feel to they were
not really giving the consideration to the communities - the electors,
as they do to private industry. Any private business, such as a grocery
chain, gasoline, automobile, etc., think nothing of going up and
playing the game with our legislators and dropping a card on the desk
saying "vote __ _. so and so ....."' whereas we go to them and 'say "would
you please." This is now considered the wrong attitude for the
communities to take and if they will stand behind the leaders and tell
the legislators "you had better had or else" - and that was the purpose
of the Resolution. We are meeting next week in Arcadia primarily for
the smog situation.. The Mayors have agreed to meet every month instead
of every other month and we are having some of the authorities in the
field of smog appear at the meetings and tell us how far they have
gotten and if they need legislative help. The'Mayors Committee intends
to take a foreceful step in actually forcing the -State Legislators to
report to the public as to what has been done. I think smog is going
to be solved in the San Gabriel Valley, at least a solution to it.
Commissioner Mayfield: In the paper this morning I noticed Edison
Company has about five permits they want to
put in plants in L. A. County and Ventura
County, and this again points out that.we should take a position here
in our City.
- 15 -
ADJ. C.C. 10/20/69 Page Sixteen
Joint Meeting with Planning Commission-.Cont'd.
(Further general discussion.)
Mayor Gleckman:. I agree with you and I am glad to hear it
emanating from the Planning Commission.
Mr. Nichols came up one night at a meeting
saying we should taike a very strong position in supporting the suit
against the auto dealers just primarily to let them know "we have had
• it." In fact the next order 6f businoss;_..far-Council, is to get them to
adopt a postage: --.stamp that says "'Clean Air Now." (Explained) I think
it is a great idea and if we can get every City to adopt it and adopt
lines like.it and really sit on it, not talk, not conversation, but
tell the legislators - if you are not up front fighting for this with
action then we are going with our political parties and eliminate you.
It sounds a little strong.,..
Councilman Nichols: I don't think you can be. too strong. I couldn't
feel stronger that the actual future of this
Valley economically speaking depends on a
solution to this problem. I think we have waited long enough. The rest
of the State is beginning to feel it enough that the support is there
and I can really feel awfully strong on the firing end no matter.
where ever it lands.
Mayor Gleckman: I am glad to hear"Mr. Nichols come up in that
manner, and also the Commission. Because we
are going to do it and it really gives me
impetus when I go to the Mayors meeting to know that my. City feels
this way, no holds barred and I am„ not sitting saying I have to come
back and talk to the Council, they are now telling me "to go man, go".
Commissioner Mayfield: Do you thin: we could cooperate with this
problem - maybe we could see fit to have a
nuclear plant in our City as a cooperative
effort - maybe underground.' Why wouldn't it be safe? I am not so
convinced that it is a hazard and maybe this would be the way to get
money.
Mayor Gleckman: I agree with you, but I think you people
would have to make this recommendation to,us.
Because whatever we would decide we would
refer to you first.
Commissioner Jackson: Well then don't be surprised because they are
saying the stumbling block to get something
done is the municipal governments.
Mayor Gleckman: I am saying we can do it, you light the fire
and we will be the fuse.
Phil Wax, President I would like to bring up a subject. The
Chamber of Commerce Valley Development Committee of the Chamber
of Commerce has been working very..hard towards
the possibility of a major Regional Transportation Center and they are
taking a hard look at the Orange -Merced zone because a facility of this
size will,.take forty to sixty acres. Everyone is getting very excited
at-_ the Committee level. Can we get some help from a council liaison to
sit in at the meetings with us and help.make this move. We do have
Mr. Zimmerman at our meetings, but we would like someone from Council.
because we are working with a lot of new people on the Committee and
they feel they need advice from Council.
(Discussion. Councilman Lloyd volunteered to sit in on the meetings.)
(Mayor Gleckman then appointed Russ Nichols and himself to work with
Commissioners Mayfield and Cox on the Ad Hoc Committee regarding
Street alignment implementation.)
- 16 -
ADJ. C.C. 10/20/69
Page Seventeen
Mayor Gl.eckman: I feel that we should schedule one of these
meetings every three months instead of six
months, because I think we get a lot
accomplished. When we sit in a meeting of this type we knock it off
quicker. (Commission agreed)
(Planning Commission left at 9:45 p.m.)
MAYOR'S REPORTS
Clean Air Now
Motion by Councilman Chappell, seconded by Councilman Nichols, that
Council expend the $15.00 needed to get behind the "Clean Air Now"
postage stamp meter printing. Motion carried on roll call vote as
follows:
AYES: Councilmen Gillum, Nichols, Chappell, Lloyd, Mayor Gleckman
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
Mayor Glec�:man: If any: _member would like to attend, or we can
send a staff man, but we have a request from
the Board of Supervisors they are going to have
Mr. Leer at,an urgent meeting for a special presentation of the air
pollution problem and possible solutions to it. It is a special meeting
on Wednesday at 2 p.m: If any member of Council can go please inform
Mr. Aiassa, if not, Mr. Aiassa will have a staff man go and bring us
bac;c a report,
I would also entertain a motion that a letter
of congratulation be sent to Jim Butler, the new President of the
West. Covina City Employees' Association.
So moved by Councilman.Lloyd, seconded by
Councilman Gillum, and carried.
Motion for adjournment at 9:55 p.m. Motion made by Councilman Nichols,
seconded by Councilman Chappell, and carried.
ATTEST:
•' CITY CLERK
APPROVED:
MAYOR
- 17 -
OR