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10-20-1969 - Regular Meeting - MinutesLI ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL CITY OF WEST COVINA, CALIFORNIA OCTOBER 20, 1969. The adjourned regular meeting of the City Council was called to order by Mayor Leonard S. Gleckman at 7:37 P.M.,,_in the City Manager's. Conference Room at the West Covina City Hall. The Pledge of Allegiance was led by Councilman Tom Gillum. Mayor Gleckman stated this was a Joint Meeting with the Planning Commission, and called for Roll Call on both bodies. ROLL CALL Present: Mayor Gleckman; Councilmen Gillum,, Lloyd,, Chappell; Councilman Nichol's (Arrived at 7:45 P.M.) Planning Chairman Adams, Commissioners Cox., Mayfield, Jackson, Commission: Browne Also Present: George Aiassa, City Manager George Zimmerman, City Engineer Lela Preston, City Clerk Herman R. Fast, Public Service Director Richard Munsel.l, Planning Director Phil Wax, President - Chamber of Commerce . Bob Christopherson (Press) JOINT MEETING WITH PLANNING COMMISSION (Informal type meeting) Chairman.Adams: meetings are held about completed and work to be have a report before you complete. (In summary presentation of current Planning Department Work —Schedule) We appreciate the opportunity to meet on a joint basis. These every 6 months to advise Council of projects undertaken in the next six month period. You from the Planning Director which is quite Projects scheduled for Public Hearings: Hillside Ordinance, Planned Unit Ordinance,_,and Minimum Grade Ordinance. The Kennels Ordinance was adopted by Council; Zoning Ordinance Revision R-3 and R-4 we heard concurrently and acted upon the Revision and this has been passed to City Council for Public Hearing. The other major one yet to do is the Industrial or Light .Manufacturing. Staff has done some preliminary research but we have yet.to review. This would then complete the comprehensive study and updating of all of our zoning ordinances. As you know, this has been an on -going project for.the past several years. Specific Plan #5 is the Grand Avenue area. We have placed that on a project list as an item that we should be concerned about and should take action on. The Surplus Land Survey is an on -going item and has been expanded'to include other than the Flood Control por- tion. We are,now looking and will be looking at lands left when the Freeway is widened, or any other lands left because of major developments. The Flood Control portion is completed but before bringing it to you we wan,Ved to loot, at the lands left by the Freeway widening. The Capital Improvement Program will be discussed in further detail tonight. This was an item we indicated several months ago to you that we fel-t we would and had an obligation to participate in. The Development of Policies •regarding Street Improvements will be discussed tonight. We think.this is a very important item and we have been concerned in trying to evolve a general policy that the City would or could take in connection with the acquiring of rights -of -way. The Zoning Map is a continuous effort on the part of the staff in keeping it updated and current, particularly as we are now in the process of adopting the new Zoning Ordinances, rezoning and considering zone changes on property. The Planned Community_yDevelopment Ordinance is also scheduled for a Public Hearing. This has been on the program for 4 or 5 years and I feel we have done as much research as we possibly can. General Plan - Housing Element, is one (Councilman Nichols arrived at 7:45 P.M.) - .1 CITY COUNCIL ADJ. MEETING - 10/20/69 Page Two Joint Meeting with Planning Commission-.Cont'd. part of the General Plan not covered by the consultant, and it is a recent legal .requirement to have. a housing element as part of the General Plan. This is something our own staff can do best. These are the projects as we see them that should require our attention. We would certainly solicit comments from Council as to any items that you feel should be added, deleted or rescheduled as to priority. MASTER -PLAN OF -STREETS IMPLEMENTATION Mayor Gleckman: Mr. Aiassa informed us that the County might become involved with regard to Walnut Creek Parkway, which is great except I hate to wait ten to fifteen months longer while they make the necessary study. Mr. Aiiassa: The Master Plan of Streets as proposed for Walnut Creek Parkway is the are of greatest concern to Council at this time and if we can get the County to help us and have a detailed study made by a consultant it would be a saving of several thousand dollars to us. Chairman Adams: This was an item that was pointed out in the General Plan as being deficient and we would concur. My own personal observation is that we have been deficient in this particular phase of planning, particularly in undeveloped areas. To summarize what I think is the real concern,. we talk about raw land now and talk about land to be developed later on, we are talking about anywhere from five times up in cost to require the rights -of -way once the land is developed. Particularly in the un- developed areas , we should be concentrating our efforts and developing a Master Plan of Streets, and a specific plan. If we concur in the need for such a plan then we should take action to establish rights -of -way •as early as possible in areas not developed. Throughout our City, the Master Plan suggests street improvements, etc., and in the areas developed we :now it will be a costly item. Mayor Gleckman: Didn't we receive from the Planning Commission sometime ago a Master Plan of Streets? Chairman Adams: Yes. As you know we did receive from the General Plan studies a very comprehensive report with some pretty definite recommendations and this was recommended to Council as being an item that should be adopted and become one of our planning tools. We have gone further and recommended a specific alignment because we felt again here is an area that has not been developed but development could take place at anytime and we felt it important to develop some guidelines for the Commission to work with in providing how far we should go in trying to provide for the rights -of -way and secondly, developing some general policy .as' to how the rights -of -way would be acquired and improvements built. Most cities and the county agencies have guidelines as to who would do what in developing major and secondary streets. Commissioner Cox: We have.a General Plan and zone change cases are before us all the time and request for variances and frequently we note that in the staff report they submit that the General Plan says this as such and such a use, anj this is then the reason for approval or denial by the 0 Commission. But in remembering the General Plan there is in zoning only a guide to proposed land uses. It is only a guide and there are many other criterias to zoning and one of the criterias in considering a zone is the form of access and the type of access proposed, volume of traffic, etc. etc. One thing, I think equally important as a criteria for considering zoning in addition to a General Plan, are your highways and we are absent that. We are making decisions on zoning matters, frankly without one of the primary criterias that govern zoning. Really we are considering zoning in light of things that we have which are really not anything we do have. It puts a tremendous burden on staff, - 2 - ADJ. C.C. 10/20/69 Page Three Joint Meeting with Planning Commission - Cont'd. on the Planning Commission and. Council, not to have one of the primary criterias in zoning matters. Mayor Gleckman: One of the problems we found at City Council level was the information,.that we assumed that if we adopted a particular parcel, for example West Covina Parkway, Council discussed if the developer wanted to develop in the path of the Parkway that the City may be forced to buy that piece of land in order to retain the West Covina Parkway alignment, and if not prepared to come up with the money to buy that land at that time ... I think, that was one of the reasons why we didn't adopt the West Covina Parkway alignment. Now getting into the Master Plan of Streets, so members of Council and the Commission are aware,. once we adopt this if we would go along and say. ---now we have a Master Plan of Streets let's adopt and implement.- .then basically we are doing the same thing with all the streets that we talked about with regard to West Covina Parkway. Am I correct? Chairman Adams: But we are not concerned with local streets,. only as far as the major and secondary streets. Maygr Gleckman: I know, but you are talking about a Master .Plan of Streets anq in many of the streets in the city we will have the same particular problem. Amar Road, for example. With al the undeveloped property that is there if we would decide on a Master Plan of Streets for that road and a developer came in with a plan he would have to follow the Master Plan; of Streets that was adopted by the Commission and the Council. My.,next! question would be, before it came to the Commission, who were the people involved that laid out the Master Plan of Streets for the City of West Covina? Our General Plan consultants, was it a traffic study that we had staff do, etc., give us some of the answers for the record. • Chairman Adams: Like most of the General Plan work it wasa joint effort and in this particular area it was a traffic consultant and the. General Plan consultant and the staff participating.. The outcome of it was a, recommendation that a Master Plan of Highways be established. Mayor Gleckman: Wouldn't you think this would go to a Public Hearing? Chairman Adams: We had a Public Hearing. Mayor Gleckman: But Council did not have a Public Hearing. What we are trying to get from you is what. has taken place up.to now and if Council concurs then we would direct staff to set the Master Plan of Streets for a Public Hearing. At that time the Council would then decide -.whether to change, send back, adopt or whatever. If any member of -Council have any questions I would think now is the time to ask the questions so we have the benefit of this discussion along with the staff report when it does come up. Commissioner Cox; May I add one further comment - the basic con- cern about future commitments with regard to the right-of-way. This isn't any different than any County, State or anything else; the State has a Master Plan of Streets and County has a Master Plan of Streets and they are confronted with this all the time. You are never going to get a precise set of rules as to the treatment of right-of-way. Some will be dedicated and some will. have to be bought. Most of the larger jurisdictions do have .these .Master Plans and are able to function without getting themselves into a bundle of problems as far as a right-of-way is concerned, so to. .that extent they are operable. The mechanics are something you can decide on later. - 3 - ADJ. C.C. 10/20/69 Page Four Joint. Meeting with Planning Commission - Cont'd. Commissioner Mayfield: My thought was if it is a difficult problem for Council to come up with a total Master 'Plan as the Commission presented to you, a large number of these streets are existing streets and we have two values, in getting them Master Planned, and one is establishing widths which will help in dealing with the Precise Plans for establishing the setbacks. Also I think.it would be a useful thing for our Capital Improvement. .Program, the portion on street improvements. I :share Mr. Cox's idea that we have to process thresholds on rights -of -way acquisition. (Mentioned problems of other cities) I sort of feel that the Gas Tax revenue may come to the cities in a larger return in four or five years and at that time you may be able to take your right-of-way acquisitions along with your Capital Improvements and I would urge you to get prepared. Mayor Gleckman: That is a good point. Commissioner Jackson: I am not quite up on why we have to be ready to pay the money right on the line when we come to it, I don't recall this being a problem before and we used to have a Master Plan of Streets & Highways. But we do have to plan ahead and we are continually stumbling over it, and certainly if you do�,'t come up with a Master Plan of Streets you are not going to achieve the end you want I doii't believe there is a pre - spacing of the center lines here. Councilman Nichols: I think there is some element of transfixation here between the issue of adopting a General Plan of Streets and the addition of Walnut Creek Park- way. If we have to include all streets within the Master Plan as being germane to the Master Plan than we have a problem. I don't believe Council raised this point of land acquisition relative to the Master Plan - in general, I think it was one specific adoption., It is true that the State and Counties have to consider this problem of mass acquisition of land but it is equally true that municipalities in the South that they have gotten their mass land acquisition through dedication. The Council's concern has been in terms of a mass,land acquisition greatly in advance of our fiscal capabilities of consummating whether through condemnation or dedication and in the Council's expression this particular project involved extensive condemnation. That this would in fact be beyond our capabilities and if so did we have the right to delineate a road that we might not be able to consummate anything in the foreseeable future. The Council's discussion as I recall limited it to this one street. .Mayor Gleckman The only thing is this one street is also included in this Master Plan. I brought it up because we experienced this one and we may run into more. So if we are prepared to adopt the plan then we are talking about all the streets. Councilman Nichols: I appreciate that. Only I was thinking the alignment of Walnut Creek Parkway,,. -goes through developed areas and the acquisition cost would exceed anything we have contemplated so far. Chairman .Adams: And the problems there we would again have in the areas of such as the easterly end of the . City unless we provide for those areas prior. Councilman Nichols: I agree, but if the Council in its great wisdom determined it was'not practical to build the route - period. Then there would be no point here or in that event to take land anywhere, but that,is a political decision. Mayor Gleckman: Yes but political entities change. What we may decide not to do now we may set the groundwork for the next Council to do. Once we adopt the Master Plan of Streets we4may have someway to go and at ADJ. C.C. 10/20/69 1 Page Five the same time we have an obligation to the Planning Commission and the City to have a Master Plan whether it is implemented or not. I agree it .is a political decision but we should decide whether this is the instrument we want to govern us for planning the future of this community and then whateverthis Council or future Councils do that is up to them but we are providing that future internal circulation whether the City can afford it or not. Commissioner Jackson: Once you actually precise it I don't think you are obligated, but this is saying this is the way we want it to go and someone can always amend it. Chairman Adams: Take..Azusa Avenue for example, it appeared on all the maps as a broken line, as a future highway and as a result of that we now have Azusa Avenue. Again that represents' -.what. we are talking about in un- developed areas and we were fortunate enough to have only a few owners involved and.the City got the rights -of -way free and again it was a City - County -State right�of-way improvement. The same thing is happening to Amar Road. The phase that has been improved, the developer did grant the right-of-way, did put in the improvements and some day the City or someone else is going to have to come back and complete the improvements, but this is the way these kinds of .improvements develop. It is the common way of doing it. That is the only way I know of. In Mr. Wakefield's absence, I would practice law by saying I am not sure that we have any legal obligation, it is just a case of going in and ta,;ing the action now and then we put up or shut up when someone comes in and says "I am ready to go, what is the City going to do now as far as acquiring the right-of-way or participating, or just what happens." Commissioner Cox: It is hard to tell where we are going to get the money, it could come from the State or from the County. It just depends on how.it looks • to them and what help it is -to them. I know in other cities they are .always opening up new streets, now they get the money somewhere. Chairman Adams: I think this happened in the past,, we developed when they came in. We simply required as a condition of the Precise Plan that they offer dedication of Walnut Creek Parkway. Mayor Gleckman: That is what I was trying to point out to Council, that once we adopt the Master Plan of Streets, we may have someway to go, and at the sametime we do have an obligation to provide the future internal circulation and we are providing it now and what the future will bring we don't know. Councilman Gillum: I think it would eliminate some of the pro- blems we would run into with developers and homeowners. I don't think we would be ful- filling our duties unless we come up with some general plan for the streets, and as you said Mr. Jackson, we can amend it later. Mayor Gleckman: Well I think what the Planning Commission is telling us is that regardless of what our feelings are on West Covina Parkway as to whether you will be able to implement, acquire or buy the rights -of -way, we should have a Master Plan of Streets which includes West Covina ' Parkway and all others, and then take it as it comes about, and I am incli.nyd to`agree with that. I would like to find out whether Council would like to discuss the .Master Plan of Streets further with the Commission, or we accept,the recommendation and put it' -up for a Public Hearing. Councilman Nichols: Again, there seems to be some implication that one's feelings expressed with regard to West Covina Parkway implied some distaste for a general plan of streets being adopted and I certainly did not mean to - 5 - ADJ. C.C. 10/20/69 Page Six Joint .Meeting with Planning Commission - Cont'd. imply that to the Commission. Secondly, as I felt before and still feel, the final decision*on adopting.Walnut Creek Parkway alignment as part of the Master Plan of Streets is. strictly'a political decision based on the implications connected therewith. (Detailed) I have felt and still feel that ultimately-the':Council will have to reach a total answer in the terms of a political decision,'and I am ready to go on when the rest of the Council is. • Chairman Adams: I feel the other part of this is something we may not be able to solve even after many meetings, but we might be able to set the format tonight and appoint an ad hoc commmittee to undertake a study on how the City could undertake this. This.study would require a period of time and should start now as to how the City might acquire these rights -of -way improvements. We would like to see a City policy on implementing the Master Plan of Streets.. Mayor Glechman: The first''thing the Council might take into consideration would be setting up the Master Plan of Streets for a Public Hearing, in order that Council adopt it, and then take the implementation at a later date but tonight prior to assigning it to the Planning Commission, we might kick it around a bit, the different ways it could be handled and see what suggestions we get.: I would hate to see Council adopt a policy without a recommendation from the Planning Commission. Chairman Adams: We would not want to pass one on to you without your comments since it is going to involve considerable.expenditure of money. Mayor Gleckman: That is why I thought we ought to discuss it tonight. Does the Council have any objections • to a motion to set for Public Hearing the Master Plan of Streets? So moved by Councilman Gillum, seconded by Councilman Chappell. Mr. Aiassa: As a point of information, Mr. Mayor, we had the hearing set for the. Master Plan of Streets on September 8, 1969, and it was held over to December 8, 1969. Motion withdrawn. a Mayor Gleckman: We will then discuss dedication of rights -of - way, on how the Council might feel on this. Council's feeling on the 1911 Act - this has come up many times at Council meetings, the fact that a street was a secondary street and a well travelled street and should they dedicate, etc. etc. 'If we adopt a Master Plan of Streets I would think that whatever is on that plan should primarily�be the streets on which we tall-, about requiring dedication versus full improvements, no charge. My point was you are not talking about throughout the entire city on individual streets, but Master Planned Streets only. We have to have different ways -of acquiring right=of-way, depending whether the street is a Lark Ellen or a single street that is unimproved. I am inclined •to go along with something that we:have been fighting with for a long time with the 1911 act, we.always had to go in and pay for the land and then turnaround and assess them for. whatever_ improvements we were going to put in. I think anything on the Master Plan of Streets we should put in -full improvements at the City's expense. I think that is what Councilman Nichols has been sta.ting for sometime. Councilman Chappell': The only thing aboutthat statement, we talked about Cameron Avenue between Lark Ellen and Azusa, and I came in`and asked about that and I was told when I suggested that, that we would only be able to develop 6 - • • ADJ. C.C. 10/20/69 Page Seven Joint .Meeting with Planning Commission - Cont'd. less than half the streets in town because we don't have the money to do what you are stating. Has that picture changed or do we have funds now where we can actually go out and pay for he improvement if they dedicate the land? Mr. Aiassa: No. The point that this report brings out is and we are talking about three different levels. One is the residential or limited area, where a person will not get a great deal of benefits in improvements and the City doing it and this we do have the funds to do. Then we have the major streets where we have Gas Tax .Funds and this can also be done in a limited manner. Now if you are.going to do it wholesale, where it will take 2 or 3 years, funds are limited. You will have to determine the areas you want to do it in. Commissioner Cox: I think these can be set up in some pattern as to priority. The improvements on some streets are not that much of a benefit, and in other areas the very dedication of the street and the improvement of that street will probably change the character of the land adjacent to it. In fact as I understand it that is the only legal reason you have to require dedication. (Explained in further detail) Mayor Gleckman: Out of this discussion I hope we set up an Ad Hoc Committee but I would like to get all the ideas on the table so those on the Committee get the general .temperment:. Commissioner Cox: I believe we could set some criteria for staff to follow and they could put it forth in a recommendation to us, such as in a residential area, for example Cameron Avenue. There are a number of streets of that nature which would come under a certain set. Then you have Walnut Creel: Parkway and the raw land. I know the County requires this and there is no reason why we can't - if it is a dedication of the street the property is in a position of being developed, but absence of the dedication it couldn't be. The improvement depending here again on what type of use you are talking about. If the property is proposed for residential subdivision purposes the normal procedure is to require the developed to improve to the cost of a 60' standard and the city mould participate in the differential;. -.to bring it to an arterial. highway. Now on a commercial, frequently they are required to go to the center line. Mayor Gleckman: Well that is for the Ad Hoc Committee to discuss. What we want now is different formulas that the Ad Hoc Committee might work on. Chairman Adams: The staff did considerable research and they did come up with many different ways. So I think it is important that they consider them all and then come up with a recommendation. Mayor Gleckman: Yes, and you had better include and discuss alternates. (Related an incident where the owner just refused dedication even though it would cost him nothing for he improvements.) My point is that someway it has to be an official act of the recommendation to the neighbors - - that we are sorry but our policy is this and because Mr. So and so won't do it we have to do it this way, and then credit them back. I don't think you can have it just one way or the other. You have to be flexible enough to deal with all the possibilities. Mr. Adams, I would .like to see you appoint two members of the Planning Commission and I will appoint two members of Council, and I would like them to wort: with staff - Mr. Aiassa, and if possible have it ready at the time of the Master Plan of Streets hearing, at least some type of formula in case the question is asked of Council as to how we are going to implement. - 7 - ADJ. C.C. 1.0/20/69 Page Eight Joint Meeting with Planning Commission - Cont°d. Commissioner Mayfield: I think it would be helpful in coming up with the policies to also state the approximate price tags. .Mayor Gleckman: That will be up to the Committee, this will entail some research. Chairman Adams appointed Commissioners Cox and Mayfield. Both accepted. Mayor Gleckman advised he would appoint two Councilmen later in the meeting. New Studies: Azusa Avenue Galaxie Area Chairman Adams: The Council did suggest we study the Azusa Avenue area and we are suggesting that we might also make a study of the Galaxie Area. We are looking at these two areas similar to what we have done in.the other areas. We are talking about areas where we now get new developments that come before us and we get people in the areas expressions over existing conditions and they are not necessarily concerned about the particular proposal coming up before us but they take the opportunity to express a concern over the way things are and suggest things they think should be done which in no way relates to the proposal before us. This makes me think that perhaps we should be looking in,greater depth in other areas than the particular Precise Plan or request of zoning, we should loot: into areas that encompass more than one particular site. Particularly in the Galaxie area. The people in that area came before us in quite a lengthy discussion last Wednesday night and the thrust of the comments were directed more against the deficiencies .... in that area rather than the proposed development. So we are suggesting these two areas for an i.ndepth study and you may have others you want considered. 0 Mayor Gleckman: I would known to our etc.. Because Galaxie area so separated there such as in your tions or staff - how it will I think really that closer to the City. by vacant land and I police, fire, etc. like to have you take the Galaxie area study and tie it in with any conversa- feelings that Trans -Union has made tie in, how soon it will be developed, is the salvation of bringing the It is unfortunate that Galaxie is know some of the problems they have Chairman Adams: In travelling through the area and in their discussions I think they don't'have adequate commercial facilities. Mayor Gleckman: They don't. Chairman Adams: We should perhaps look again at what is now happening or may happen in these areas and particularly how it could be accommodated. Commissioner Mayfield: made. They brought out in although a lot where power, etc. I think if of help rather than let One of the' things I felt about this was in the interest of cohesion in the City we ought to show an .interest in at least having a study all the community service's they have a deficiency not city controlled such as water pressure, we went in and showed seom concern it would be it wait and fester into a real problem. Mayor Gleckman: I agree with you. We held a Council meeting there and didn't get too many people out. Some of the problems we did get, where as you say, things we had nothing to do with. I think -what they need really is what you say, some interest shown, some explanation of what we can or can't do, what has to be done, etc. I would suggest that perhaps the Planning Commission hold a meeting. there. I would be glad to attend as I know other members of Council will and staff. As you know communications throughout the country are bad and people don't usually make the effort unless it finally hits them, but then - 8 ADJ. C.C. 10/20/69 Page Nine Joint Meeting with Planning Commission - Contad. communications is a two-way street. Commissioner Jackson: We could break up the General Plan that has to do with their area and bring it to them for discussion. Councilman Nichols: Perhaps that is where we'erred. We have held two meetings in that area and I think we let each resident know by mail, but we sort of said come and tell us your problems - father is here. And it.didn°t go over too well. Perhaps some of these concerns that we know are theirs, if'we raise these issues - at least we should try it again. Councilman Gillum: There was a large number of them...here the other night and they were not adverse'to expressing their feelings. So they do feel they are part of the City, but I got the impression they feel* -that we don't think they are a part of the City, and this is a bad situation.' Mayor Gleckman: Anything we can do .to help and let us know in advance of your meeting. I think the impetus of bringing this study to them might help. Chairman Adams: A Lot of their concerns would have to do with our Capital Improvements Program, they are con- cerned with lack of parks, fire and police facilities. I.think we can look to these. kinds of things to spark an interest. Perhaps as we get further into these kinds of discussions, particularly the implementation of the General Plan, perhaps we will identify a lot of those in that area and certainly any new proposals of magnitude in or close to their area, we should relate to them. We can look to those areas to develop some communications. 0 Mayor Gleckman: Let us know when you are going to have the meeting. Chairman Adams: Are there any other areas we should make a study of at this time? Mayor Gleckman: Well we have given you Azusa Avenue and primarily because we have implemented something there and we have a referendum before the City, and we had a letter from Mr. Batchelder .regarding annexation to the City, and you have the improvement down in Industry which feeds into the Freeway now which will create a tremendously good access all the way down Azusa Avenue to all the freeways, which I think. will increase the traffic coming to the City and going through the City. You should incorporate all that in your study. We have had a lot of comments as to what we should have on Azusa and what we should not have; comments on the existing zoning on the Brutocoa property; the proposed zoning on the Handler property; the Batchelder letter, the Rolling Green development; what effect the new annexation from Suburban Water will have on Azusa Avenue; the Huntington Beach Freeway alignment, even hhough we have never been able to pin them down. I think the Commission could pioneer this thing and come back to us with an Azusa Avenue Study similar to the Orange Avenue study and others that we have made. It may relieve some of the tensions throughout the community or it may .increase them. • Guidelines on Current Problems or "Current Queries" Drive-in or Drive-thru Restaurant Fotomat Precise Plan Chairman Adams: Frankly, we are looking for some direction on these uses. Maybe Council can indicate whether we should be considering these uses under our Unclassified Use Permit because of the uniqueness of the problems attendant. 9 - ADJ`. C.C. 10/20/69 Page Ten Joint Meeting with Planning Commission - Cont°d. Mayor Gleckman: I think speaking to the guidelines regarding Drive-in'and Drive-thru Restaurants, since I. have been on Council it has been my opinion that it is most unfortunate and I think we have really hurt this community from the standpoint of allowing Taco Houses, Hot Dog Stands, etc., right in the center of our commercial city. I feel it has hurt the development and the actual inviting into the City of quality commercial developments because there is no way of doing away with isthese things. I think we made the mistake of putting these uses into Commercial zones. Where we wanted our commercial concentrated we weren't explicit enough as to the type of uses, but then maybe in those days they had to take what they could get. I feel that we have reached the stage that there is no real reason or need for a Drive-in or Drive- thru Restaurant of the type that we presently have in the City of West Covina in the presentcommercial zones of the'City - in the regional as well as the outlining. This type of usage, in my personal opinion, does not breed high quality commercial development or adjacent to high quality commercial development, and it has been and will continue to be a source of police problems, unattractiveness and the best example if the Jack in the Box. I am not knocking Jack in the Box per se, but it does' not typify quality commercial for the City of West Covina. There may be and I am sure there is, a place for that type of restaurant, maybe north Azusa Avenue where it is. I think if we take these types of usages out of the commercial a)ne and put them in the .Unclassified Use Permit section then the Commission, as well as the Council, can so direct where these types of uses will go. Commissioner Mayfield: But I wonder if it will stand up legally. Mayor Gleckman: It will if we put it under the Unclassified Use Permit section. Actually I am not shoving them out or in, only saying I would not recommend a •Hot Dog Stand right next to say Home Savings & Loan, and right now if he wanted to he could. Councilman Gillum: This relates to what I saw last Sunday night and I don't mean to be critical of our neighbors to the north, but below San Bernardino Road - the wash car rack,..the theatre and the area in there, that is going to be the biggest garbage -trash community you have ever seen in the next five years. We have an example of that in West Covina, a franchise restaurant on the corner of Glendora and Garvey, they put up a nice restaurant and it went under and now someone else has it. I am deeply concerned that we can work oufselves into the same position as you see on, Azusa Avenue from the San Bernardino Road south. Mayor Gleckman: Also Glendora Avenue. Commissioner Jackson: I think what you should do is take them out of the Ordinance and don't allow them as a use, put it in the Unclassified Use Permit section. Councilman Lloyd: I would concur very strongly with what Mayor Gleckman said. If you want a quality community one of the things you have to do is set the criteria. The way you set the plan and implement it sets the community. I am incensed over this compaction of franchises - Minnie Pearl°s, Hot Dog Stands, FAomats, etc. It is just junk and if you want •a junky community this is the way to have it. If you don't want a junky community I think very definitely we can keep them out. Mayor Gleckman: The reason for the motion made by Council on Fotomat and passed on to,the Commission was that we felt we should ta:e Drive-in.and Drive- thru°s out of the commercial present existing zones and put them into the Unclassified Use Permit section. If that implies that we have put them in a definite place in any area I would lice to see the meaning of it. ! Im ADJ. C.C. 10/20/69 Page Eleven Joint Meeting with Planning Commission - Cont'd. Councilman Nichols: But that motion doesn't include all of the types of uses we are referring to here, what is your reaction to that? A number of these little type shops on Glendora survive on their walk-in traffic. Mayor Gleckman: I think that any particular one that has a sit down you have to leave in the commercial zones., • Councilman Nichols: The one you cited, Jack in,the Box, would qualify. Mayor Gleckman: No, not if they have both, if they have 'one. I,am discussing a type of walk-in restaurant exclusively, not a drive in. You can't tell a guy what kind of a restaurant to have. Councilman Chappell: You consider a Taco restaurant with a little patio outside. Commissioner Mayfield: That is what the Mayor is saying:,: it has two functions. Commissioner Cox: I agree as regards to the control. The Drive-in Restaurants are taking on the same magnitude that gas stations took on a few years. Many cities are putting a moratorium on them right now and I think it is happening to us right now and where you draw the line on restaurants is that you may able to put them in the unclassified use permit and then we could set some policies .that would govern. For example, so many seats and so many feet from another say McDonald:'.s or Jack in the Box, or whatever. I would like to know where the nearest similar restaurant is because if they are within a certain number of feet of each other I think the area is basically serviced for that use. These are the things that would control. Mayor Gleckman: I am talking about type of use and not uses, because I think we get into an area of competitive capitalism when we talk about you can't have six restaurants in a row. I am speaking strictly of drive-in and drive-thru type restaurants. Councilman Nichols: I thin]i the most able statement that has come up was'the one that perhaps we should come up with an answer that involvesthe placing of all restaurants in this Unclassified Use Permit and let the Planning Commission and Council in its wisdom weigh all the facts whether it is a need for it, or whether it is detrimentalto the health and welfare. Commissioner Jackson: That won't get rid of what we presently have. Mayor Gleckman: No, but it would help in the future, but I hesitate because it would be singling out a particular industry, a guy could say when are you going to include shoe stores, etc., otherwise I think itis a good idea. Commissioner Mayfield:, The Ordinance indicates the use that can be considered in,a zone so you wouldn't divorce it from a zone by putting it in the Unclassi- fied Use section. You have to go back in the chart and indicate what zones you would consider. Mayor Gleckman: You are going to have to.set up some criteria for an Unclassified Use Permit that doesn't exist Commissioner Mayfield: So when you get to the zones you would consider it, it would seem to me you would have to say all the commercial zones. Can,you think of any 11 0 ADJ. C.C. 10/20/69 Page Twelve Joint Meeting with Planning Commission - Cont'd. of the residential classifications that we would want to offer this too? Mayor Gleckman: No, your control is the Unclassified Use Permit. General Discussion. THE CHAIR DECLARED A RECESS AT 9 P.M. RECONVENED AT 9:14 p.m. Chairman Adams: The Unclassified Use Permit we have set for a Public Hearing on November 5th and I have asked Mr. Munsell to put together some additional uses along the lines we have discussed tonight, that we might consider at that time. Councilman Gillum,: These so called "nuisance" things, such as the franchises - the 7-11's. It seems like every time we have a request for a service station we get a7-11 request and they are getting to be problems in certain areas, especially when near school areas. I am wondering if the Commission could consider these types of uses that cause their own unique problems as far as cleanliness, over saturation, etc. Commissioner Mayfield: Should we call them "marginal enterprises"? Chairman Adams: It is perhaps a nicer term. We could preamble the Unclassified Uses by saying ".-of such a special nature or unique characteristics as to make them impractical in their inclusion, etc Mayor Gleckman: Now let's talk about the Fotomat - are we talking about it in the same sense as the drive-in drive-thru? Commissioner Cox: Yes. Commissioner Mayfield: I think. so. How about the flower in Eastland? Mayor Gleckman: Yes, you would still control it locationwise under the Unclassified Use Permit. Commissioner Cox: That was the problem with the Fotomat, they didn't require an Unclassified Use Permit. Mayor Gleckman: But if we put it in the drive-in drive-thru usage it would. Commissioner Cox: It is this type of stuff that does bother you. I think in the Unclassified Use Permit if we are going to amend it we should go further with it and include drive-in and drive-thru service facilities - - we should explore all of this. (Further discussion on drive-in drive-thru's including Fotomat) Mayor Gleckman: If the man meets the criteria it is very difficult to turn it down. For the record, • normally what we will do - we may find a traffic problem as far as the Fotomat was concerned and recommend it go back to the Planning Commission, giving us time - so we do have some stop gaps. Let's discuss the Hillside Development Standards. It is lucky we don't have a tremendous influx of development at the present time for hillsides because we don't have hillside standards. I feel a great deal of land in this community that is going to be developed is hillside .land, so I would like to see the Commission.make posthaste, as well as the staff, in getting a hillside ordinance as well as a grading plan for hillside standards. - 12 - ADJ. C.C. 10/20/69 Page Thirteen Joint meeting with the Planning Commission - Cont'd. Chairman Adams: The Hillside Ordinance, the Planned Residential Development and Planned Community Development - these have all been scheduled for hearings before too long, or will be. Mr. Zimmerman: The grading ordinance was postponed on request a couple of times in order to do some late input. • Commssioner Mayfield: The Hillside standards are basically to try to bring the esthetic considerLtions in Take the existing terrain and preserve certain things that might have some amenity in the area. And it will have quite a bit to say about site development; there will be more of an encouragement to build on a step pattern. This is a different view than what we have had in the hills before, so I think it will take quite a bit of thought on everyone's part when we hear the implementation of it generally. Chairman Adams: In regard to the Implementation of the General Plan: We requested staff to go back and pull out of the General Plan those items that fall under the implementation stage and we find two pages of them listed in :the material presented tonight. (Mentioned in further detail) Some of the things not programmed yet are items having to do with additional park: sites, additional library sites, etc. And we as a Commission sometime ago had occasion'to have Mr. Gingrich appear before us in connection with Galster Park and we indicated to him if he would convey our desire to meet with the Recreation & Parl-z Commission at their convenience and discuss with them any of these things that would involve US. Mayor Gleckman: On this land acquisition for parrs, as you • recall we received a request for some lights on the Maverick Field and at that;,time it was the feeling of the Council that we should go into land acquisition for parks, particularly Cortez Park and.specifically.the Zoelle property, the Hardwood property and the church, and Suburban Water situation. Now I don't know what is happening as to whether they are implementing that type of study - Mr. Aiassa, is the Recreation & Park Commission doing this? Mr. Aiassa: They are starting it. Mayor Gleckman: Could the Planning Commission through its impetus make a request that they put this into the hopper as far as priority is concerned. Mr. Aiassa: It will be done. Mayor Gleckman: I think after taking a look at the Park on Sunday - that par],,: could really be developed regionally and it would have so much more to offer with additional space and with the park tax imposed for Galster improvements, we could at least plan for the future in regard to land acquisition. Councilman Lloyd: I think: in all fairness to Mr. Aiassa we had a chat about this right after the Maverick thing, and I know Mr. Aiassa spoke to Mr. Gingrich, as I did, on the possibility of expanding and I think Mr. Gingrich already has a plan on it. Mayor Gleckman: Okay. I just thought I would throw it in - land acquisition for parrs. I think: we are going to be much better off in trying to acquire land adjacent to our parks rather than go out and try and acquire new parrs. Chairman Adams: This was purely put on the agenda to get your reactions. They,.came out of the General Plan Study. We accepted the recommendations as being valid so the,,important thing now is to implement these proposals. We are 0 ADJ. C.C. 10/20/69 Page Fourteen Joint Meeting with Planning Commission - Cont'd. not attempting to tell others what they should or should not be doing, we are offering our services and cooperation to get these items accomplished and will meet with any and all groups who have a direct responsibility. Mayor Gleckman: But you, as a Planning Commission, would be the ones to come to the City Council with the recommended Capital Improvement projects for the future. Chairman Adams: Yes, that would be the final outcome. Commissioner Mayfield: That Ridge Parkway - if that;area should develop it would seem to me it has some planning needs. It could be similar to the regional park at Berkley - it would be an ideal theme to try and carry out. Mayor Glec]>man: I agree, yet when I look over the. -Capital Improvement Projects on this list it is surprising how many tie in with the implementa- tion of the streets, now whether this was intentional or not...... Chairman Adams: We thought it would be timely to poll you on these particular items. Commissioner Cox: I have one further comment. In our Planning meetings we go thru lengthy hearings and I think all of the commissioners will give some expression as to the reasons why they vote a certain way on a particular issue. I know the Planning meeting minutes are now in brief and most of the conclusions that we express represents the meat of the hearing. I I think that you are not getting the benefit of our thinking, you are getting the vote sum which might represent 100% and sometimes in that vote there is a 60/ or 40% thinking. I hate to put a big burden on who ever will have to do it,, but I think frankly the City Council should have the benefit of our discussions at the Planning meetings. I think in many cases our minutes would be extremely helpful as to how you would like to go. Mayor Gleckman: I agree. Mr. Aiassa: As of October 1 _ Nancy Beardsley will be taking the minutes of meetings and they will be taken in greater detail, not verbatim but in more detail. Mayor Gleckman: Fine. Mr. Aiassa, I would like to have a copy of the Commission reports on everything that goes to the Commission for a hearing. All I get at present is either recommended or denied, no staff reports on the items and I would like a copy of the reports as well. Mr Aiassa: Normally, Mr. Mayor, you do get the material but by'the time it is on the'Council agenda several weeks have elapsed and then you only get a summary report. Mayor Gleckman: Yes I understand that, and that is why I am as;- ing that the staff report be resent. _..... Chairman Adams: You have a list of the future Planning Programs (briefly summarized). Most of them are in progress and items that haven't been initiated as yet we will be most happy to participate in anyway we can with any group having to do with that particular item. 14 - ADJ. C.C. 10/20/69 Page Fifteen Joint Meeting with Planning Commission - Cont°d. Commissioner Jackson: The League of Cities on the planning end of it, the biggest noise you have is the subject of pollution. I think the City, with the size we are and with our future, that we should start some sort of program on pollution. Mayor Gleckman: • Commissioner Jackson: Are you talking about smog? Pollution, per se. Over -population, air, water,- etc. Mayor Gleckman: The Engineering Department from the water situation, there is a Water Quality Control Board that oversees all municipalities. (Related a recent incident.) In the otber pollution area, people, smog, gas fumes, etc., I.think this is a big area and I agree with you. There are several committees that are active throughout.Southern California and until you have some material gathered on the subject - well I just don't.know what we can do about it. Councilman Lloyd: We are pretty well preempted in the area of some of these things. Although I think your idea is an excellent one. Perhaps we could have a committee that would be responsible for this type of thing. Mr. Aiassa: There are certain fields that the State has taken the preemption on. Mayor Gleckman: What I would like to see done is have the Planning Commission request the minutes of any type of conversations having to do with pollution from the League°s Commission, and then as a Commission you review and make a recommendation to this Council. Commissioner Mayfield: How about maintaining contact with the Regional Waterfalls Natural Board* and the Water Pollution Board and ask for copies of their minutes. Mayor Gleckman: Anything that has to do with it. I met with the Mayors of the San Gabriel Valley and the Pomona Valley and we drafted a Resolution which we were getting signed at the League of California Cities conference and it was unfortunate that we weren't as strong as we tried to be and we felt that this was a California problem and would have to be solved in California by the legislature, and we feel to they were not really giving the consideration to the communities - the electors, as they do to private industry. Any private business, such as a grocery chain, gasoline, automobile, etc., think nothing of going up and playing the game with our legislators and dropping a card on the desk saying "vote __ _. so and so ....."' whereas we go to them and 'say "would you please." This is now considered the wrong attitude for the communities to take and if they will stand behind the leaders and tell the legislators "you had better had or else" - and that was the purpose of the Resolution. We are meeting next week in Arcadia primarily for the smog situation.. The Mayors have agreed to meet every month instead of every other month and we are having some of the authorities in the field of smog appear at the meetings and tell us how far they have gotten and if they need legislative help. The'Mayors Committee intends to take a foreceful step in actually forcing the -State Legislators to report to the public as to what has been done. I think smog is going to be solved in the San Gabriel Valley, at least a solution to it. Commissioner Mayfield: In the paper this morning I noticed Edison Company has about five permits they want to put in plants in L. A. County and Ventura County, and this again points out that.we should take a position here in our City. - 15 - ADJ. C.C. 10/20/69 Page Sixteen Joint Meeting with Planning Commission-.Cont'd. (Further general discussion.) Mayor Gleckman:. I agree with you and I am glad to hear it emanating from the Planning Commission. Mr. Nichols came up one night at a meeting saying we should taike a very strong position in supporting the suit against the auto dealers just primarily to let them know "we have had • it." In fact the next order 6f businoss;_..far-Council, is to get them to adopt a postage: --.stamp that says "'Clean Air Now." (Explained) I think it is a great idea and if we can get every City to adopt it and adopt lines like.it and really sit on it, not talk, not conversation, but tell the legislators - if you are not up front fighting for this with action then we are going with our political parties and eliminate you. It sounds a little strong.,.. Councilman Nichols: I don't think you can be. too strong. I couldn't feel stronger that the actual future of this Valley economically speaking depends on a solution to this problem. I think we have waited long enough. The rest of the State is beginning to feel it enough that the support is there and I can really feel awfully strong on the firing end no matter. where ever it lands. Mayor Gleckman: I am glad to hear"Mr. Nichols come up in that manner, and also the Commission. Because we are going to do it and it really gives me impetus when I go to the Mayors meeting to know that my. City feels this way, no holds barred and I am„ not sitting saying I have to come back and talk to the Council, they are now telling me "to go man, go". Commissioner Mayfield: Do you thin: we could cooperate with this problem - maybe we could see fit to have a nuclear plant in our City as a cooperative effort - maybe underground.' Why wouldn't it be safe? I am not so convinced that it is a hazard and maybe this would be the way to get money. Mayor Gleckman: I agree with you, but I think you people would have to make this recommendation to,us. Because whatever we would decide we would refer to you first. Commissioner Jackson: Well then don't be surprised because they are saying the stumbling block to get something done is the municipal governments. Mayor Gleckman: I am saying we can do it, you light the fire and we will be the fuse. Phil Wax, President I would like to bring up a subject. The Chamber of Commerce Valley Development Committee of the Chamber of Commerce has been working very..hard towards the possibility of a major Regional Transportation Center and they are taking a hard look at the Orange -Merced zone because a facility of this size will,.take forty to sixty acres. Everyone is getting very excited at-_ the Committee level. Can we get some help from a council liaison to sit in at the meetings with us and help.make this move. We do have Mr. Zimmerman at our meetings, but we would like someone from Council. because we are working with a lot of new people on the Committee and they feel they need advice from Council. (Discussion. Councilman Lloyd volunteered to sit in on the meetings.) (Mayor Gleckman then appointed Russ Nichols and himself to work with Commissioners Mayfield and Cox on the Ad Hoc Committee regarding Street alignment implementation.) - 16 - ADJ. C.C. 10/20/69 Page Seventeen Mayor Gl.eckman: I feel that we should schedule one of these meetings every three months instead of six months, because I think we get a lot accomplished. When we sit in a meeting of this type we knock it off quicker. (Commission agreed) (Planning Commission left at 9:45 p.m.) MAYOR'S REPORTS Clean Air Now Motion by Councilman Chappell, seconded by Councilman Nichols, that Council expend the $15.00 needed to get behind the "Clean Air Now" postage stamp meter printing. Motion carried on roll call vote as follows: AYES: Councilmen Gillum, Nichols, Chappell, Lloyd, Mayor Gleckman NOES: None ABSENT: None Mayor Glec�:man: If any: _member would like to attend, or we can send a staff man, but we have a request from the Board of Supervisors they are going to have Mr. Leer at,an urgent meeting for a special presentation of the air pollution problem and possible solutions to it. It is a special meeting on Wednesday at 2 p.m: If any member of Council can go please inform Mr. Aiassa, if not, Mr. Aiassa will have a staff man go and bring us bac;c a report, I would also entertain a motion that a letter of congratulation be sent to Jim Butler, the new President of the West. Covina City Employees' Association. So moved by Councilman.Lloyd, seconded by Councilman Gillum, and carried. Motion for adjournment at 9:55 p.m. Motion made by Councilman Nichols, seconded by Councilman Chappell, and carried. ATTEST: •' CITY CLERK APPROVED: MAYOR - 17 - OR