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11-18-1968 - Regular Meeting - MinutesMINUTES OF THE ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL CITY OF WEST COVINA, CALIFORNIA NOVEMBER 18, 1968. The adjourned regular meeting of the City Council of the City of West Covina was called to order by Mayor Leonard S. Gleckman at 7:30 p.m., at Coronado School. The Pledge of Allegiance was led by Councilman Chappell. ROLL CALL Present- Councilmen Chappell, Nichols, Gillum, Lloyd, Mayor Gleckman Also Present: Lela Preston, City Clerk George Aiassa, City Manager Owen Menard, Planning Director H. R.. Fast, Public Service Director & Ass°t. City Manager George Zimmerman, Ass't. City Engineer Richard, Hill, Planning Assistant SOUTH GLENDORA-AVENUE PLAN, AREA I THE CHAIR.ANNOUNCED THIS IS THE TIME AND PLACE FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING ON SOUTH GLENDORA AVENUE PLAN, AREA I. •(Mr. Menard, Planning Director, verbally presented the staff report and briefly summarized the events leading to the South Glendora Avenue Plan, Area I, Hearing. Planning Commission Resolution No. 2101 was read in full. A map was displayed and explained by Mr. Menard.) PUBLIC HEARING Frank Walker Would you read off who voted for and who voted (Business at) 514 So, Glendora against on the Planning Commission? West Covina Mayor Gleckman: We will do so at the time we close the hearing. All questions will be answered at the end of the hearing. The vote was 3-2. Mr. Tanking: (in the audience) called for a point of consideration, stating he believed there were two areas of people in attendance at the meeting and asked forbearance in a polling of those who are concerned with the zoning of the South Glendora Avenue area and .those who are merchants and business people and land and building owners in the West Covina Center, Mayor Gleckman: I am sorry you are out of order, and I do appreciate your request, but it is a determination of the Council that anyone in attendance at a council meeting can speak on any subject they so please. The rules will not be changed for this hearing. W. Tanking I am Chairman of the West Covina Merchants Associa- 1538 E. Cameron Avenue tion and I have subchairmen under me.. I am here to West Covina speak for members of the Association. (Business on So. Glendora) Apparently Mr. Chairman you are not concerned with the polling of the attendance as to those concerned with zoning from Walnut Creek Parkway to Cameron Avenue as against the balance of people attending _: merchants, land and building owners of the Old West Covina Center - 1 - ADJ. C.C. 11-18-68 Page Two SOUTH GLENDORA AVENUE PLAN - AREA I: who have another matter on their minds. Are you concerned about those two divisions? Mayor Gleckman: We are concerned with all the people's testimony. • W. Tanking In the 3 to 2 vote from the Planning Commission I am happy to learn tonight that the motion is to delay action. I would like to read from the Sunday Tribune and it is a matter of general acknowledge- ment that all people were able to enjoy this meeting, however some people in the room perhaps did not, so I would like to clarify our thinking in my reading this article. "The plan was prepared by the Planning Department under the direction of the Planning Director and has been approved by the Planning Commission by a 3-2 vote. However, the proposal has met..opposition from the merchants and property owners of the West Covina Center, some who have threatened to contest the plan in the Courts if the City ,goes through with it. The major item of contention is a proposal to close off a portion of Glendora Avenue from, roughly, Vincent Avenue north to Walnut Creek Parkway as a means of improving traffic circulation. " The indication in this article says the West Covina Center merchants oppose the proposal. We oppose this proposal not at all basically in the zoning factor of it. We oppose one point, which I will 's:peak,to later. "Businessmen in the Center feel that the street closure and realignment would bring a major drop in business and make it more difficult for motorists to get to their establishment. The plan points out that South Glendora is a primary access to the central business district from the southern portion of the City. " This is very interesting. The plan points out that South Glendora is the primary access to the Central Business District and it doesn't stop, gentlemen, at this point where it is proposed that it be diverted into Vincent Avenue it continues to be the primary access to the Central Business District as you identify it as the Old Business Center, and continues to be all day, evening, Sundays ..... because that is a very prime north -south street through West Covina. you have no better other than Azusa Avenue. Mayor Gleckman° Mre Tanking, = are you aware that you are asking us to accept a newspaper report and quoting from that report, and the record will not reflect when you are throwing in your own remarks or quoting from the paper? W. Tanking- It leads me to clarify that some of these things as stated in the paper are not a true concept of the merchants thoughts in the matter. Mayor Gleckman° Thank you. W. Tanking. 'The proposal covers Glendora Avenue from Walnut Creek.: Parkway south to Cameron Avenue. This proposal is fine. Apparently it is the type of thing that has to be done in all areas of West Covina. Its been brought out that this had to be done on Azusa Avenue ............................. Gentlemen, I read again that South Glendora Avenue is of utmost importance because of the need to this City since its conception 20 years ago when it was the nucleus that brought about the commercial beginning of the City. "A tremendous impact upon the •property devel opment of the Central Business District. The City must proceed to systematically plan and develop the area in a manner that will guarantee the desired end result. " I finish that so as not to bore you further having to do with it, but it is interesting as to how it was indicated that we would even go to Court about this proposal. This is not correct. We are in complete agreement and enjoying the fact that there is planning going on in West Covina for the furtherance of proper planning towards a fine future City in which your revenue factor is increasing. This is what you have to have. I know South Glendora with an automobile ;row_ will be a great factor of revenue for you because of the sales tax on automobiles, other than that I can't see that there is any great beautification, or benefit to the traffic flow to the heart of the Central Business District. Gentlemen, if you close Glendora Avenue off, - 2 - ADJ. C.C. 11-18-68 Page Three SOUTH GLENDORA AVENUE PLAN - AREA T traffic flow is going to go through Vincent Avenue under the Freeway and out of the City. And the Home Savings Building being constructed now - and on the new map proposed for 10 years from now where we no longer have the service area in the Old Center, such •as we have now, Center Street is no longer Center Street it is merely a street to the rear of the Home Savings Building and stops. If you don't have an access factor on Glendora Avenue coming down into our business district and you have Center Street stop somewheres between that land now where it becomes Home Savings and ........ ............ we are becoming quite an island. And further as other things develop it goes even greater into that area. Now at the moment Glendora running through from where Vincent is the point they want to change and close off, we have from eight to ten thousand cars daily, not only those wanting to do business with us, but those that continue on their way. This is what they want to do and they have been doing since it was a horse road. This is Highway 39 - from the ocean to the desert. And all of a sudden somebody diverts you. A detour is a detour, but it is temporary. This kind of thing should not be. This is an important street that is all of a sudden shut off for the proper flow of traffic to the heart of the Central Business District. The heart of nothing! Its Vincent Avenue which goes under the Freeway and up to the mountains. If you can turn left there and go to the Plaza - you are lucky. Keep in mind the things I am -bringing out about the future. I believe in the future - ultimately things will be different in West Covina. For fourteen years I have been part of the Old Business District and that probably will be different some day, but the way to approach it is not by the part of this plan that says close South Glendora. Now let me mention the financial aspect of the .Old Center of West Covina - which is depreciating in value, according to some people. We do eight million dollars gross plus a year. The Plaza does fifteen million - mark those figures down. Is that Center such 'a miserable prospect for the City of West Covina? One hundred sixty odd businesses pay licenses, pay taxes and the City enjoys a service area that people in and outside of West Covina very much enjoy. The flow of traffic down Glendora Avenue is not merely people wanting to escape, or wanting to go up to the mountains - - we have calls from LaPuente, Baldwin Park, asking how do we get to your place of business - and we explain. (Explained) They don't expect to come down to the point where Vincent is a diversion and be shunted back up to Baldwin Park. They expect to come down as they have been taught and into the business center. This is weird to all of us, that Highway 39 could be proposed to be closed to traffic. I think that the mistake that is being made is that this program is a divisional thing, that should have been divided. I think the South Glendora Plan Area I is first a zoning plan and this is what it probably should be entirely. The traffic flow factor is another matter completely. Its like in Congress - if you have a Civil Rights Bill and you tack a gun law on the end of it, hoping to railroad it through. This might have happened in the closure of South Glendora Avenue if we merchants didn't value where we are and what we do for the City, so much. We learned about this because a land and building owner was sent a plan and he noticed this particular thing, now we are getting plenty of distribution of literature, etc. Yes, we knew about the various meetings but in the beginning this could have happened without our knowing a thing about it. We think • the closure of South Glendora should wait until such time as a proper plan is worked out on all traffic movements in West Covina. Walnut Creek Parkway is being talked about - which is a million dollar program. You have no money at this time to work on this. You have no idea where it will come from. You have a Blue Ribbon Citizens Committee assigned to study traffic flow. And we feel that is another entity entirely and should not be in here. When a proper plan is ready and the financing and physical possibilities are really known and all of your new freeway lanes are all predestined and your underpasses and - your service roads are understood, then is the time to consider a thing such as the closing of a street which is of prime importance to everyone in West Covina. _ 3 _ ADJ. C.C. 11-18-68 Page Four SOUTH GLENDORA AVENUE PLAN, ARE A I I am sure that if the City of West Covina will see to it that the land and building owners are brought into the point of discussions in the changing of things they don't like looking at in that Center because of its age, that improvements can result but so far there has been a very poor liaison between the City and the land and building •owners. Tonight I was hoping to ask for a poll 'between what land and building owners consider and the merchants and the City but it wasn't considered. I feel the West Covina ..hkrchants Association i-.s of such strength revenuewise to the City of West Covina...that..-you .mus_t: defer and consider further the plan of closing South Glendora Avenue. We are so definitely against it that we will continue to voice in whatever manner is necessary our opposition to it. Thank you. Mrs. Gomb)ert I wish to object to the closing of Glendora Avenue. I 1214 W . Devers have shopped on this street for twelve and a half years. West Covina I am sure many feel as I do that the less turns left and right would be easier for driving, especially with children in the car. I am sure if this street is closed to north traffic those persons will just continue straight and shop elsewhere. We who use the Center enjoy it.because it is safe for children who alight from a car and immediately step to the sidewalk and extremely convenient for parking. It is clean and is varied in the opportunities to shop. It is a friendly area, small enough to encourage this type cf asset. A Master Plan of the City would say that this type of shopping center is essential to the residential of the City. I ask you to please help the shoppers. Willis Neas A comment on the area on. California Avenue at 717 South California Avenue' Cameron. This property came up about a month ago West Covina for a change in zoning and I see the South Glendora Study Plan indicates this in a R-P zoning and I feel after the hearings held on this, this should be held as a separate subject and not endorsed with the rest of the plan. Thank you. Joseph W. Law In 1966 the code as shown by the booklet given by 154 So. Glendora the Planning Commission shows Vincent Avenue north West Covina of Walnut Creek Parkway carrying 25,268 cars a day and Glendora carries 9,725 cars a day. Without doubt these figures have increased in the past 2 years and will continue to increase in the years to come. The proposal now is to close Glendora and divert the 10, 000 or more cars per day to Vincent.. It seems to me Vincent Avenue is carrying sufficient traffic and the additional 10, 000 cars will certainly not help. It just seems to me it is creating another problem for the future. In addition to overburdening Vincent Avenue it will create a pocket of the east portion of the Central Business District. The only way to get into being getting on Vincent Avenue to Center Street, Center to State Street and State to Glendora and the only way to get out is the way you came in. People are not going to do that because there are too many stores easier to get too and leave. You will be creating a blighted area and it can only result in vacant business establishments and it will become a real problem for the City. So in closing Glendora Avenue you are creating two problems. The reason given for closing is that some 3 or 4 streets meet at that point - - but it appears to me it would be more economic and certainly more satisfactory, to close or divert one of the other streets. • William Beem I have been before you and before many Councils 209 South Glendora in the past and the Planning Commission, and I have West Covina seen and witnessed many things in my ten years in business in the City. Most of you gentlemen know that I completely oppose the portion of this plan that would entail closing Glendora Avenue in the designated area. I would like to go on record as stating that I have opposed it continuously and I am still opposed to it. I think Mr. Tanking -.:Very capably covered everything that I might say and I believe he stated what most of the merchants believe in. -4- .:i. �.: ion ADJ. C.C. 11-18-68 Page Five SOUTH GLENDORA AVENUE PLAN AREA I I have been privileged to be on some of the Blue Ribbon Committees in the City and in study groups of the business area and I can certainly see the future the City has in store if we continue with ,a General Plan. I think a good portion of this General Plan by the latest ones we have hired to do this.. would be fruitful in a period of • time.. I do think though that if we do not oppose this particular section of the General Plan at this time and wait for 4 or 5 years for Walnut Creek -,Parkway to be put through and completed as West Covina Parkway and be our main artery through the City, if we don't oppose it now and wait, that it will be too late to oppose. Therefore I think you will find the opposition is certainly intact in being here tonight in opposing this. I believe if you gentlemen who have the facts before you and you have most definitely studied them and our Planning staff and they have done a good job, but I think the influence of the merchants and the citizenry of the City itself should have a strong influence in someway to keep the West Covina Center intact, as far as the traffic flow is concerned now and not cut it off . Mayor Gleckman: I would point out that there are other subjects other than the closure of Glendora Avenue, so I don't want to exclude anyone from testifying this evening that may have anything to do with what is being proposed. So if anyone cares to speak on another subject, this is your opportunity. Joe Arabe.11a The only thing I wish to point out in the South Glendora 1005 W. Cameron, Avenue Avenue Plan is the corner of California and Cameron is West Covina indicated as R-3 zoning. We had a Council meeting October 21, where this particular parcel was broughtiup •for rezoning and the Council decided to leave it as it is, which would be R-1, R-2 - R-3. Now this Plan as proposed would reverse that decision and I want to go on record as opposing this because you have already decided on this and rendered your decision on this particular parcel. John B.. Stiles I feel somewhat like the pickle in the middle. In my 2127 Hacilinda business we must plan ahead many years and I can only West Covina take that stand here. My corporation has possibly $300, 000 involved in the closing of this section of Glendora Avenue. My concern is with my fellow businessmen in that area and I am on their side to the extent that we must do the things proper for our own businesses and thus for the City. I would like to propose without interjecting myself in the affairs of this Council, that perhaps a more detailed study would be possible on this. This is a long range program and the key to me is the Walnut Creek Parkway. I am aware of the traffic count as proposed in 1966 and I also feel the shunting of the traffic o-ff of Service Road as was done when the new Vincent Avenue interchange was made that traffic did reroute itself. People did come into this area and with this proposal I don't think this has been emphasized enough is that Valinda, in the long range planning, will be going over the hill and opening new areas to the south and will bring, hopefully, not.8,200 cars to the intersection of Glendora and Valinda but perhaps twice that, in opening the route over the hill. Secondly, Walnut Creek Parkway going across town could conceivably bring people from the eastern section of town. I think it has pretty well been determined by surveys made by the Planning Commission that people..do.:no.t.move from one side of our town to the other, they may move both north and south of the freeway to areas close to them, and if new roads are generated it is conceivable that it will bring more people in. I am hopefully ready to spend another $ 80, 00 0 on our property located within this but I too have to be reaheti-cas to the traffic pattern I see another aspect to this, if I am correct in my understanding that the Lark Ellen underpass in the same period of time will come in, opening up north of the freeway some 30, 000 residences where now it is determined that they move east and west north of the freeway, very few of which will come south to shop in these areas. I think - 5 - ADJ.C. C. 11-18-68 Page Six SOUTH GLENDORA AVENUE PLAN, AREA I there is much meat in this program that needs more study and more understanding on the part of all of us businessmen in that area for the ultimate good of the City. The thing that frightens me from a business standpoint is with the opening of the •Montclair Shopping Center - business may jump us as it jumped.Alhambra and Monterey Park 12 years ago and came :to this town, and now unless we have some improvement it might jump to the Montclair area or the beach area when the Huntington Beach Freeway is in, if we haven't planned then we could be in serious trouble in 5 to 10 years. Mr. Mayor, I may be out of order but if we could have some studies on this - I don't feel the full scope has been revealed to all of us, or the potential of the statistical figures that the Planning Department has on the surveys it shows regarding more traffic that would come in. I sincerely suggest more study sessions on this matter. Chuck Dowding I have had an opportunity to study the Glendora Report. 1605 South Belmont I would like to second the last speaker's remarks. I West Covina think the report needs to be amplified and gone into in more detail before we can come to any sound con- clusion in the development of that area. There is a great absence of emphasis placed on the effect of these changes on the existing commercial area along the freeway. D. C. Schoeber We have a plan here that everybody has studied but we 146 South Lark Ellen also know the freeway is going to be changed. We don't West Covina know how, or when, but until we do know something about what the State will do about the widening of the freeway I think this should be set aside until that happens, because that might make a • big change in this program. THERE BEING NO FURTHER PUBLIC TESTIMONY,. PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED. Mayor Gleckmano I have a few questions before asking Council deliberation on this subject. Mr. Menard - according to your study plan, to realign Valinda Avenue after it comes south of the closure ---otherwise it does not line up with the existing Glendora Avenue? (Mr. Menard, Planning Director, asked that they refer to Page 6 of the booklet, and a plate was then displayed on the screen and Mr. Menard explained Glendora Avenue as it now exists and showed the proposed property line that would be established if Glendora Avenue was vacated sometime in the future, and also pointed out the proposed route for Walnut Creek Parkway.) Mayor Gleckmano I would like to add at this particular time that first of all this has been one of the most unusual subjects to come before this Council only primarily because of the timing. We have requested of our Planning Department and Commission to look into the future and make recommendations to this Council. It is most unfortunate that we did not specify to them that these typejof proposals should be taken in steps instead of a ma j or plan being offered to the property owners. Again, this is my opinion and not that of the Council, but a plan made to the property owners in such steps. with the • prearranged meetings with those it will effect, before it would go to public hearing before our Planning Commission. I do feel that this step may yet be necessary some time in the future. I don't believe that this should be adopted as part of our General Plan at this particular stage until we can conceivably come forward with a program and the funds to direct traffic to make it better circulation for all existing commercial centers within our City. There is no doubt in my mind that in its present form there is no portion that it will benefit specifically:..in the area along Glendora Avenue to the freeway. It is my own opinion that it can't help but hurt that particular section of the commercial district, but that is only because it has not been taken in steps where we can set in a public hearing and discuss what we have done up to now and in order to - 6 - ADJ. C.C. 11--18-68 Page Seven SOUTH GLENDORA AVENUE PLAN, AREA I g'eti'additional traffic in and out of the commercial centers regardless of where they are, and how to do this. I believe the timing at this particular point in our planning is not proper because we are not ready for it, because we haven't taken the proper steps to bring this to your attention. But we are at a public hearing and we did hold • public hearings before the Planning Commission and it is by law the reasons why we have this public hearing before the City Council. Again, I remind you that the Planning Department and Planning Commission, in my opinion has done what we had requested of them. It is then our decision as your elected body to make the final decision as to how, why, and when. I would like for the benefit of the people in the audience, the Planning Department, the Planning Commission and my fellow members of the Council, to be aware of my position rather than wait until I hear each one of theirs:,. and that is that I feel there is nothing wrong with this plan except in the timing and the proof of the pudding is in the eating. I feel until such time that we can come before a body such as this and show you where beyond a doubt it is to the best interests of all of you in this room to develop this type of traffic circulation I couldn't therefore vote for it to be adopted to our present General Plan. COUNCIL DISCUSSION. Councilman Lloyd: A question of Mr. Tanking. You are a little perturbed at the map on the wall - will you explain what you are bothered about? • Mr. Tanking: The point that I wanted to bring out and possibly there won't be any difficulty at the time when it is developed because maybe you will have the full cooperation of the Flood Control and the owner of the building that sets right here. Because at such a time that the transistion where Valinda comes into Glendora Avenue you are now way into that flood control area and way into this commercial building. It is a physical problem of law, courts, and getting along with City, County, State and Federal interests. The Chairman's reference about the alignment of that was very fine but he did not bring out the technical aspect which would bring about great difficulty and that perhaps it couldn't really happen as simply as it appears to look - - like good and easy. However, Valinda going up over the hill has no potential at -all having to do with anything that comes from Hacienda Heights, Walnut, or anywhere back here. This is the meat and potatoe s:- street in the •City. Councilman Lloyd: Mr. Tanking � in view of the fact you voiced your opposition to the plan with regards to the specific closing of this street, in general do you feel your organization is in favor of the plan otherwise? Mr. Tanking: I know of no exception to the plan having to do with the zoning factors on South Glendora Avenue. Nothing has been expressed having to do with the balance of that plan. This is why earlier this evening I asked for a possible division of contention in the room because I knew the •merchants were not concerned with what happens as to the future zoning lines from Walnut Creek Parkway to Glendora Avenue because it is already predestined. You have already assigned commercial areas in that section which will predestine what will result on that street. Councilman Lloyd: In view of the fact that you and most of the people in this room have given this considerable thought - I would like to know what you consider regarding the timing factor. Do you feel we have adequate time? What do you feel would be a normal timing factor 5 years - 10 years? - 7 - ADJ. C.C. 11-18-68 Page Eight SOUTH GLENDORA AVENUE PLAN, AREA I 'Mr. Tanking: Timing is based on more than one area. Timing as far as West Covina Center - most of it started 20 years ago and in that period there has been no plan or uniformity as to the results of what is there - - not being the most beautiful or desirable facility commercially. Timing has to do with who and what investment is practical to change that pattern from what it is to a more desirable area and a transistion period for the business people in the area from their present to a better type of activity. 5 years - or even two years might do it if the money is presented by proper activity and all of the legal aspects are circumvented, so it becomes a reality. Councilman Lloyd: One - you do feel that the zoning changes are indicated; secondly, you take in account the fact that we must raise -the money in order to make any changes; thirdly, you feel the current plan proposed is inadequate, would not serve and is detrimental to your best interests; fourth, the timing - I want to know that you have looked into it and what you think the timing requirement is to make these changes? Mr. Tanking: Minimal timing element of 5 years. I don't believe you can accomplish what is necessary in less than 5 years. 5 years would be the minimum to accomplish the beginning of a change, after that then it could go rapidly. If it doesn't happen in 5 years Iit may take 10 or 15. If other areas get ahead of us as to the drawing power and the closure of Glendora Avenue will help the drawing power of other communities because we wouldn't have the money to fight the change today.. If Home Savings who have billions of dollars said we are interested in the balance of this area and we have $10. a sq. ft. for the land and • building owners - it is very possible that within 2 years bull dozers would be working. So to answer your question I think it is one of money. Councilman Lloyd: One more question. There has to be some sort of a program in your mind and in the minds of the merchants as to a good timing situation. In other words we have accepted the fact that something has to be done, and you have indicated also that something should be done with regards to the specific business interests in your area, so I ask you, at what point will the merchants say - I have had it and I am leaving? Do we have a timing factor on that? Mr. Tanking: When you have 160 businesses in the area there will not be a full agreement at anytime. There is a vague con- currence indicating that the land and building owners working in joint cooperation with the merchants could improve this area to the point of where it would be acting as a keeper on the service area. But if you do away with your service area and have a high4i.se put up where does the service area go? If we pay $250. rent per month and the transistion puts us into a building which has been assigned to us and it now becomes a high rise and this store that paid $250. now pays $750 a month rent, he can't pack it - - so he is a dissenter. This is what I mean by the difficulty of trying to bring people in our particular service area into a higher class area. I don't know how you bring 160 people into coordination. Most of you gentlemen are aware of this, because you have experienced it many times. I feel as though anything in a improvement factor would be agreed upon and worked upon by the merchants and the land and building owners in the West Covina Center in a better light if it were done cooperatively. Councilman Gillum: Mr. Menard would you bring the Council and the people here up to date on where we stand with the State on the widening of the freeway? (Mr. Menard deferred the question to Mr.. Zimmerman. Mr.. Zimmerman put a slide on the screen and described what is proposed. Explained the present freeway and the pro- posed widening, underpasses, off ramps, etc.) - 8 - ADJ. C.C. 11-18-68 Page Nine SOUTH GLENDORA AVENUE PLAN AREA I (Mr. Zimmerman stated that the freeway is now four lanes in the underpass areas and it appears like there will be 3 lanes added.) Councilman Gillum: I am concerned with where we stand with the State and • how firm is their proposal with regard to the underpasses? Mr:. Zimmerman: This plan represents a portion of what has been approved by the City Council and the State of California Highway Commission. This represents the official document between the State and the City of West Covina. Certain aspects of it such as the underpasses are not clearly shown on the original document but they are covered in letters and drawings given to us by the State, including off ramps and what is shown on that map. All of this is represented by virtually absolute promises on the part of the State Highway. Councilman Gillum: The point I am trying to make is we are all talking about closing Glendora. Avenue, now I can remember in the past it was always a problem with regards to traffic. A few days ago Mr. Windsor was cleaning out the basement in preparation to moving, and came across a booklet written in 1929 and describing the City of West Covin a as being the leading city of the East San. Gabriel Valley and a paragraph said "it had to plan properly for traffic flow..... " Unfortunately in the past we haven't and now. we are paying the penalty for it. All of these things that we are discussing will contribute to the traffic flow in our community. The closing of Lark Ellen,northbound traffic, •the additional traffic put on Vincent, etc. etc, , and I would hate to think I would be on this Council and not try and project some thinking into the future to alleviate some traffic problems that are going to be there. As Mr. Lloyd asked - - at what time do you merchants get ffed. up and leave? You see what faces this Council and future Councils is the fact that the City is going to be here but you the merchants may leave if you get `feed., up. So the reason for a study and proposal is to alleviate some of the problems we faced in the past. I am inclined to agree with Mr. Gleckman on this segment - the timing on it. I think it is wrong. I am hopeful that all of you have read this report because it does bring out many aspects of what we think the future of that area will be. But I think we would all be foolish if we would say, and unfortunately some of you have said it to me personally, leave us alone, we are happy.. I think it is our responsibility along with yours to help work out these problems. This may not be the answer. Maybe we haven't looked into it far enough yet. But I do believe if we don't do something now to coordinate the area with our General Plan that in the future years many will come back and say to us why haven't you done something? I think along with Mr. Gleckman that the timing is not right; the report is well written but I would -like to see if possible `rre way that additional time and study be given to this one area. A question of Mr. Menard. If this section were to be held out and a new study given to it, what effect would it have on the overall acceptia.-nce of the General! Pl'an?- Mr, Menard: I don't think a specific plan affects the General Plan to a great degree, The General Plan is just that - general, • It will cover about 33 square miles and here we are involved with 96 acres of specific planning. If the plan were partially adopted, say the zoning pattern and the traffic circulation element was referred back for additional study, the zoning could be represented on the General Plan and the traffic circulation element would not be. It would not affect the General Plan to a great extent at all. Removal of the traffic circulation element or a particular portion of the traffic circulation element that has been indicated might need addi- tional study would make less than a complete plan, but a part of a plan is better than no plan,and.I would suggest that, - 9 - ADJ. C.C. 11-18-68 Page Ten • • SOUTH GLENDORA AVENUE PLAN, AREA I Mayor Gleckman: Mr, Menard, there was a question asked at the beginning that I don't see any relavency too, but I would like at this time for you to read the roll call vote as adopted by the Planning Commission, Mr, Menard: Commissioner's voting in favor: Mottinger,. Davis, Adams; Voting no: Mayfield, Jackson, Councilman. Nichols: The great bulk of the audience here tonight is composed obviously of business people in the community, So when the question is raised here tonight about the closure of Glendora Avenue, obviously it is the issue of contention here. When Mr -Tanking states the Glendora businessmen's group has not taken any opposition to any other part of this study I would rather sus- pect it is because of not any particular complaint of the businessmen up there rather than that they have very carefully studied all aspects of the rest of this plan and could in fact after good consideration give comment to the. Council. That is the first point I would like to clarify, Mr, .Tanking-, - in speaking as your role as a representative of your group were you saying in fact that your group is endorsing all portions of this plan except the closure of Glendora Avenue? Mr. Tanking: I did not say that I was at liberty to say we were endorsing but we were not in disagreement with the balance of the zoning plan, Councilman Nichols: You had not taken a position in disagreement? Mr, Tanking: We had not taken a position of disagreement with zoning, Councilman Nichols: You say with any portion of the zoning plan? Mr, Tanking: If the closure of Glendora Avenue is part of the zoning plan we have taken exception and disagreement, Councilman Nichols: Mr, Tanke, I am only asking have you separately taken any position one way or the other about the zoning plan? Mr, Tanking: We have not taken a position on the zoning. Councilman Nichols: Thank you, It would probably be much kinder to the staff if one could take the position that in good conscience , as some of my fellowrC©uncilmen,,have ,b_ee-n, able to.that they feel the plan is basically a good plan and the timing is not correct. I think not only the timing is not correct but I don't think it is a good plan in a number of other areas, It seems strange to me that one of the great and crucial decisions we are facing in reality to the General Plan has not yet been resolved, yet on all of this it is contingent upon that issue, but I think that is probably why this discussion particularly on the recommendations of the closure of Glendora Avenue, is considered premature. By that I mean that Walnut Creek Parkway and the extension of that has not yet, been adopted by Council, It is rather obvious that this entire con- cept here is in the minds of everyone with regard to what is best and what the future will hold, This could not properly be considered until the whole aspect of the exten- sion of Walnut --Creek Parkway was covered, Therefore, I feel that this decision could not be made until that time, I would like to talk about some of the other recommenda- tions in this program, in terms of the recommendations themselves it states that about one-third of the daily traffic flow turns off on Glendora Avenue at the Y and two-thirds go off on Vincent because of the jumble of streets, therefore it is a 10 - ADT,. C,C. 11-18-68 Page Eleven SOUTH GLENDORA AVENUE PLAN, AREA I bottleneck of streets and Glendora carries the lesser volume it should be the street closed. I would like to challenge the logic of that observation because it presupposes .that the other two thirds of the traffic goes off on the left of the Y . is going to sho,p.in West Covina, My best guess would be a significant majority of that other two-thirds leaves the City as fast as it can get under the freeway to its way north and in fact does not go anywhere .in .the City of West Covina. It is my contention .that a significant percentage of that traffic that goes up Glendora does not go up there to shop, and therefore the cldsure of- Glendor-a..Avenue in any event would turn away the big bulkof people northbound on Vincent who intend to shop anywhere in West Covina. I .think our staff should give that a lot more thought. I think we need a lot more specifics about where these people are going on Vincent Avenue before we talk about the eight thousand cars on Glendora as being rather inconsequential. The other thoughts I have on traffic would be the recommendations for cul de lacing the streets up in that area where the St, Christopher's Church is existing at the present time. One of the recommenda- tions was to cul de sac Blue Ash and nothing was said about the possibility of closing off and cut de sacing Christopher Street, As you will note the proposals to bring Service Avenue into a direct alignment with.Christopher Street - if this was followed through this. would tend, as the commercial area to the north develop- ed, to throw a great deal of commercial traffic on to. Christopher -Street, if Christopher Street is left open on to Sandy Hook it will ®asa on an access and egress basis dump a great deal of traffic into the residential area, So if staff • was talking about cul de sacing Blue Ash. to the north some thought should be given to the residential area adjacent to that area by some further cut de sacing. I think this is another deficiency in the report. One final point - some of the 2.o.'ning:.things that have not been talked about too much this evening involved the objections to move R-3 zoning down Glendora Avenue to Cameron and Craig down, and one of the statements in the recommendation is .that "in order to implement this the staff recommended that we change our: R - 3 procedure in the total picture throughout .the entire community and require instead that the. R-3 zoning be allowed only in those areas where there are lots at least 100' in size. I have been much concerned about a trend coming out of the Planning Department and I would express that as a matter of record - I have been much concerned with .the thought .that you can mandate in laws and regulations certain size of parcels for development such as we are planning to do now in our -service commercial. I have a great fear -if you anchor people down to certain limitations that they must be this big before they can develop, that what you do is stop development in a. community rather than encourage. You might refer to'Page 10, this shows pictures of multiple development on 2 lots and on a. single lot and on a larger block, The inference there, I believe, if you develop in large areas you get a better development in small areas, But I notice the picture used to explain and demonstrate the large blocks of multiple developments doesn't appear to be in West Covina, that I know of. It is interesting enough that some of the large block areas in West Covina that have • been developed such as certain apartments along. San. Bernardino Road and the Town Houses are not exactly my concept of what would be an attractive apartment develop- ment, I personally would much prefer to see the nice quiet type of apartment development on.Bandy Avenue than.I would the Town House development, yet the Bandy Avenue apartment is on smaller lot sizes. So I think before we jump quickly to accept this as a fine idea that we should put these larger minimum sizes on all our streets we should give that area more consideration too. Mr, Mayor - ths.s represents 5 areas of concern.I have relative to this plan, that in fact concurs with everything said here and goes further into other areas where I have concern. ADJ. C.C. 11-48-68 SOUTH GLENDORA. AVENUE PLAN, AREA I Page Twelve Councilman,. Chappell: I was very concerned in reading this over that we are actually putting the 1°cart before the horse" to to speak. • We have a traffic study in progress, we are having a freeway getting ready for construction, and I -would like to see some of these developments either gotten underway or completed before we go into making decisions that might affect our business areas that we are getting a tax dollar from. I don't think any of us will vote for anything that will adversely affect or deteriorate our business areas or lessen it. I think our concern is to see that the business areas we now have are improved and that we get more people in there to spend money. So I say it has been a fine rendering - this document, and I would like to see it brought out again when we complete the traffic study and the Central Business District study. • 11 Councilman Nichols: I recall hearing not too long ago when we had representa- tion from our consultant group at the Council meeting, the Council _Bade -ar�point about one of the parcels of land in the City', and the previous Council had gone on record relative to creating a certain zone pattern and then thereafter there was some issue because the consultant in preparing a map had showed the zoning in some other fashion. I notice here again the Council did go on record again in establishing a,certain zoning pattern in a cer- tain area and.I notice in this report tonight that the staff is showing the recommenda- tions for the very type of zoning in that same area that the Council denied some anonths ago. It seems to me gentlemen, that the matter of zoning is a matter of council policy and once the council establishes the policy and chooses irrevocably for that period and that time, they expect the zoning to be .that way and that it is a little bit improper for staff to come up within a few weeks showing another recommendation for zoning that council has turned down. I would hope that when this comes back before us again that the staff map will reflect what it knows about the Council's policy, Mayor. Gleckman: I would like to answer Councilmen Nichols because he referred to something staff did. Might I remind Councilman Nichols that this report was prepared some time before a public hearing was held before the Council regarding certain zoning in the City. I would hate to think that we are going to spend some $60, 000 to call in a consultant, pay a professional staff thousands of dollars, and then. sit up here in front of these people and say to these people that the five people sitting on Council are then setting forth a pattern, regardless of what is recommended, regardless of what we hired out to have done. I wouldn't be a part to those comments Council- man Nichols, Councilman.Nichols: . Mr, Mayor, I don't ask you to be a part of my comments. Mayor Gleckman: Okay, let the record reflect I am not a part of your comments. I would only tend to say this, that as far as I am concerned the staff acted in a proper manner in suggesting to this. Council, :as does our consultant act in the proper manner in suggesting what they see, maybe not last week, or maybe not two weeks from now, or a year from now,, but what they would seek out for this community five or ten years from now. And I would hope they would continue to recommend to this Council future development and not base it on past or immediate decisions because this City cannot. stand still and it won't stand still, Councilman Nichols: Mr, Mayor, it is rather apparent as long as you wield the gavel that you will always have the .last word, Mayor Gleckman: Not necessarily, you are talking, - 12 - a 1 ADJ. C.C. 11-18-68 Page Thirteen SOUTH GLENDORA AVENUE PLAN, AREA I Councilman Nichols:.. If I may I would like to get in the :next to the last word, What I stated was if this Council in five votes, or four, or three to two, goes on record as establishing a certain policy, until the Council changes that colicy it seems to. me that the, 8tdff of'the City is obligated in its material to implement that policy. Mayor Gleckman: Can you be more specific as to that policy? Councilman Nichols: Yes, I can. I don't know when this was exactly pre- pared.,.. Mayor Gleckman: It is dated on the front of it. Councilman Nichols: Zoning in this City is a policy matter, but when a map comes out a month after a policy zoning matter and shows a staff recommendation for rezoning at the corner of California and Cameron and the Council a month before that took an official stand denying that type of zoning in that area, then I think it is an error of staff to submit this to the public inferring that it is a clear,' wide open recommendation. If this were prepared before, in fact, then.I believe it would have been appropriate and proper to indicate on these release sheets that subsequent to this the -Council had taken a policy stand, Now I do not like to be offensive to Mr. Menard, nor the staff, and I don't like to get into a debate with you Mr. Mayor, as to how you feel versus how I feel, but it is a matter of concern of mine and I have expressed my feelings about it the same as I have sat here while you expressed many of your personal feelings and at no time did I attempt to cut you off, or rule you down, or throw you out of order or make you appear you didn't know what you were talking about. And I expect and I demand an equal degree of courtesy from the Chair, Mayor Gleckman: Well I think you are right Councilman Nichols and I was under the impression that you had read this report like the rest of us, .. , . Councilman Nichols: Now that is an insult. I don't plan Mr, Mayor to sit here while you stand there in your chair and infer to this audience of people that I haven't done my homework and I haven't read this report, and I propose to walk out of here just as Dr. Snyder did unless you gare to withdraw that statement. Mayor Gleckman: Councilman Nichols,. I apologize. Councilman.Nichols: IBecause,I have read my report, , .. , Mayor. Gleckman: Would you please sit down and let me comment? Councilman Nichols: I would be happy if you want to comment in a courteous fashion, Mayor Gleckman: Fine, I notice by this report that the Planning Depart- ment states in the report in its letter heading that the Pl anning Department is pleased to submit the South Glendora...Avenue Plan, Area,I, as authorized by the action of the Planning Commission on April 3, 1968. Any hearing, to my knowledge, that would take place after this presentation of this report would no way, in my opinion, tell the staff that they are to change the report because of some acton taken by this City Council, Nor do 'I infer that you hinted that this was done. But I do stand to defend the staff in anyway, shape or form for a recommendation that would be made when requested by this City Council specifically when it was adopted by ADJ..C.C. 11-18-68 SOUTH GLENDORA A -VENUE PLAN, AREA- I Page Fourteen by the Planning Commission and then passed onto this body for public hearing. I think in all due respect to the staff they have _presented .to us exactly what has been rpresented.to the -.planning Commission in detail without cognizant and without • awareness that it should affect this report in anyway regarding any action .taken by this .City Council on zoning matters, I am not saying ,I am in favor of it or opposed to it, but merely stating it is their obligation to .pass on to us the same information that was available at the previous hearing. Now if I am wrong - Mr. Nichols. you have the floor. Councilman Nichols: All I stated was that when any material is prepared and presented by the staff and subsequent to that the Council takes a position of policy, it seems to me it would be proper to enter somewhere in the report by insert that the Council has in fact taken a position of policy, Otherwise the continued circulation of the rrat erial tends to indicate to the public that this Council has taken no position on this material and that is my, position. Thank you, Motion made by. Councilman .Lloyd, . seconded by Councilman .Gillum, that the South Glendora Avenue Plan, Area I, dated September 18, 1968, be denied and that it be referred back to staff for rework and resubmission to the Planning Commission, with consideration to the utilization of the Blue Ribbon iCommission, inclusive of the Old Plaza .Merchants Association and homeowners of the area, Councilman Gillum: I am -wondering now are we going to duplicate something here .that much time and effort has been put in. I would prefer to have it on certain areas of concern to us,. such as Glendora & Vincent - apparently the area of most concern this evening here is the closure of this intersection. I am wondering if we are going to duplicate a great amount of effort and work and possibly come up with the same answer with the exception of Vincent and Glendora,. Councilman Lloyd:. While I see whatyou are trying to do, nevertheless, as a function of staff work and I am .sure Mr, Menard would be in agreement, that there is a.clear mandate at this point assuming the Council votes to accept the motion, to review all of the things that have come to pass at the .public meetings, both at the :Planning Commission and .City Council, and as such it would require a basic reworking of the plan. I am sure Mr. Menard would see this as the basic duties he is to perform and I would also think this would be the thinking of the City Manager, Mayor Gleckman: My only comment would be that whatever is acted upon would be a matter of guide in the General Plan and not necessarily change the realignment of Christopher Street, the modification of Glendora Avenue - in other words anything that we would adopt as a part of our General Plan would be a guide and not automatically adopted as such that this is it. Just a guide in the manner that we are moving towards. In other words if you are going to send this back to the • Planning Department I would suggest that we be more specific an& ask"that ','.-.the report be reviewed and resubmitted for public hearing to the PT'anning Commission and then on to us, but take specific items out of here, My suggestion would be that--we-deny the acceptance of the report and refer -back to the Planning Department and Commission for an upgrading, unles-s thisCouncil figures they would -like to hake the elevenpoints-described in this report on page 1 - take each item individually. For example: if -we felt that -,major -modification of Glendora -Avenue at thi-s time needed rework -.--send that -back; if •we felt minor realignment of Christopher Street could be adopted -or --should be sent back, etc, etc. , otherwise I don't think --we ,are giving the Planning Department or Commission proper direction as -to what we are asking of them, - 14 4 ADJ. C.C. 11-1-8-68 SOUTH GLENDORA AVENUE, AREA I Page Fifteen Councilman; Lloyd: -M-r , -Mayor - I think -we -are indeed giving the Planning Commission and the City Administration proper • direction as you have stated and I concur in this that it is a staff function and they have the element of the problem as presented, and I really feel that in the interests of both time and the economics of money that they can probably do a better job by reviewing it.:themselves and working it out on their own level and coming back up the.line with it. I think that the motion as presented provides all the elements of what we are trying to achieve here this evening. In my opinion it is a very clear indication that no member of the .Council at this point feels strongly to go forward. I recommended to deny and vote "nay" on the motion as presented. Councilman Gillum: Mr. Menard, can you give me some idea of what we have invested in this present study that we have? Mr. Menard: A rough sketch - the North Azusa Plan was about a six week study and probably involved $1500, in staff time, material, etc. This study is about three to four times the length as far as staff,. so I would estimate somewhere between seven to nine thousand dollars invested, Councilman Gillum: . Thank you, May I recognize Mr, Tanking? Mr. Tanking: Another seven or eight thousand dollar mistake is • not a very great mistake in West Covina, friend. Councilman Gillum: May I say something - Mr,. Tanking I have known you for quite awhile and to be very honest with you, sir. , there are times 'I get very disgusted with that, and I can say this to you and anyone else - if you would like to make the decisions we have an election every two years and it is a little difficult at times to sit up here and take this constant thing, Now your question, sir? Mr. Tanking: We, in this room, have spent thousands of personal dollars in time in three meetings,. such as standing before you and I am not satisfied in giving this back to the Planning Commission and Planning Director for reconsideration because we. met before them twice. Mr. Adams listened to us for two meetings and said tous....., Mayor Gleckman: Mr. ,Tanking - was Mr. Adams the only one present? Mr. Ta.nking: No, but Mr. Adams said, . . Mayor Gleckman: Then you are out of order Mr, `.Tanking. Mr. Tan -king: I am proposing that this South Glendora Avenue closure be deleted from this plan and reworked. It be deleted and become part of a traffic flow - Blue Ribbon -Commission proposal, which I stated in my first seventeen minutes tonight - I said there are two different areas in this plan, one is zoning and one is traffic circulation. I want a deletion of the closure of. Glendora Avenue, that is what we want as a unit of 160 business men and 140 land and building owners desire. We do not want this reworked at their convenience and arrive at the same program. Councilman Gillum: Thank you, I can understand their feelings but I think we have to study it further and this may not be the - 15 -' 1# ADJ. C.C. 11-18-68 Page Sixteen SOUTH GLENDORA AVENUE PLAN, AREA I answer but I would support Mr. Lloyd's motion, that we return this and find a way to solve- some of these problems which apparently exist. Return it to staff • and go through the same procedure of public hearings and hopefully get the support and con-structive sugge-stions from the property owners and merchants involved in this, This would be my recommendation and I would support Mr. Lloyd's motion, Councilman -Llo yd: Mr. Mayor - I would like to clarify and point out to the assembled audience that a motion to deny actually forces the complete reworking.of the plan. I feel in essence we have denied what .the Planning Commission and Planning Department has already done. We are saying this is unacceptable at this point, we want something new, we want something different. On .the other hand we are not .telling them to throw the whole .thing out. It .is very clearly indicated that we have strong .feelings with .regards to the traffic flow situation. I .think all of these points are clearly in evidence to the�Planning Commission and Planning Department. As such.I think that .the best interests of the business community and homeowners and the best interests of the City of West Covina would indeed be served by the decisions made this evening. Mayor Gleckman: I can see that .this is going to be a major problem because we are sending this report back in total and saying we are unhappy with it, The only testimony this evening that came before this Council that would tend to put off some of the things that I felt were wrong • with the report and that was the major modication of Glendora Avenue,; alignment of intersection of Walnut Creek Parkway, Valinda-Glendora Avenue, the cul de sacing of Blue Ash Road, the incurment of multi -family residences -along major arterials and adjacent -to commercial areas. I think primarily some of these things could basically be put into our General Plan but if the Council feels that the entire report is not satisfactory, per se, then I would go along -with the recommendation to deny, but I do feel we should give the Planning Department and Commission some indication of what areas we are really -saying we are unhappy with and not throw the whole thing back and say we are unhappy with the whole works. Councilman Nichols: Mr. Mayor - I enumerated the five points that.I had concern with,. so I feel I would not need to elaborate anymore. Councilman Gillum: The reason I would go along with' Mr . Lloyd's motion is the fact that the majority of the people here are concerned with the traffic flow - and this is a major portion of this plan - and then the five points Mr. Nichols brought out, which leaves us very few things left that we could actually incorporate in the General Plan, Some landscaping and a' few other things are .listed in here. I think the staff and the Planning Commission did their utmost to present to the Conncil and this community a working plan but I think when we are finished taking these areas out that are of concern to us all, it doesn't leave much to send on to the General Plan, so this is one of the reasons I think we should return it, the whole thing . Motion carried on roll call vote as follows: AYES: Councilmen .Chappell, • Nichols, Gillum, Lloyd, . Mayor Gleckman NOES: None ABSENT: None THE CHAIR DECLARED A RECESS AT 9:25 P; M. COUNCIL RECONVENED AT 9:35 P.M. - 16 - • ADJ.. C. C. 11_�_18-6'8, Page Seventeen SOUTH. GLENDORA AVENUE PLAN, AREA I MAYOR'S REPORTS • Mayor Gleckman: The only thing.I have is an invitation from the West Covina Chamber of Commerce to judge the Junior Miss West Covina contest on November 30th. I will be out of town, (Discussion. Mayor -,Pro tem - Councilman Gillum stated he also would be out of town, Councilman Nichols offered to attend, Mayor Gleckman asked the City Manager to so advise the Chamber of Commerce. ) COUNCIL. COMMITTEE REPORTS Councilman Lloyd: I have just returned from my trip to Washington wherein I had the opportunity to speak to the FAA Administration people and.I have a lengthy report which will take time to put together, I have already made arrangements with Councilman Nichols to get together with him .and I am going to-as-k for his support in a-ski-ng -staff to get together the report on this. I am very excited and I believe we do indeed have an opportunity to go forward, Mayor Gleckman: Let the record reflect that Councilman Nichols has • been appointed to the investigation of STOL-Port, (The Mayor called for' Oral Communications because of the audience attendance.,) ` ORAL COMMUNICATIONS Mrs. Gombert I wish -to object publicly in the record to the impossible 1214-W. Devers position that.the..Planning Commission put this City West Covina into last -October 16, 1968, They approved the building of a convalescent hospital in the Civic Center area, 500' from the new 4.9 million dollar. Civic Center. If at a later date some institutions would be interested in locating in the Civic Center such as financial, or insurance, this fine central location would not be available. Our new $50, 000 General Plan from.San Francisco is trying to upgrade our community and this is certainly not in their plans for improvement. It is your responsibility as it is the Planning -Departments, to guarantee the proper development of this City and such did not happen here., E. C. Schoeber Mr, Mayor - two meetings ago you mentioned the 146. South Lark Ellen hearing tonight would at the same time have a dis:c:ussion West Covina with the State on the widening of the freeway Mayor Gleckman: In answer to one of the questions, The State Division of Highways replied they could not have anyone at this meeting on this date, ,and it has been postponed to December 2nd with regard to the Huntington Beach Freeway. The San Bernardino Freeway :has already been taken care of by the past Council and this Council, - 17 - ADJ� C.C. 11-18-68 Page Eighteen Motion by Councilman Nichols, seconded by Councilman Lloyd, and carried, that this meeting adjourn at 9:40 p.m. • ATTEST: CITY CLERK • APPROVED: MAYOR - 18 -