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03-04-1968 - Regular Meeting - Minutes. MINUTES OF THE ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL CITY OF WEST COVINA, CALIFORNIA 0 MARCH 4, 1968 The adjourned regular meeting of the City Council was called to order by Mayor Krieger at 7:30 p.m., in the West Covina City Hall. The Pledge of Allegiance was led by Councilman Gleckman. ROLL CALL Present: Mayor Krieger, Councilmen Gillum, Nichols, Gleckman, Councilman Snyder from 7:35 p.m. Also Present: George Aiassa, City Manager Lela Preston, City Clerk George Zimmerman, Ass't. City Engineer Kirk Wilson, Recreation & Parks Department Captain William Ryan, Police Department SWIMMING POOL Mayor Krieger: The first order of the adjourned meeting is a city swimming pool, item number 1. Is there anything to add to your report of March 1, 1968 •Mr. Aiassa? Mr. Aiassa: No, Mr. Mayor. Mayor Krieger: All right, We ' have the report and the recom- mendation and the report on the subject. Council,any discussion on the subject? Councilman Gillum: Mr. Mayor, I notice here some areas in the sourcQ of funds available for the additional balance that we have of $13,792. I'm wondering if it would be possible to find another source or eliminate an item temporarily. Ilm wondering if they will give consideration at this time to the parking area, where considerable parking on both sides of the street and across the street in the Recreation & Parks area. This would save around $7,000,,00 and I would hate to see some of these things, such as the irrigation thing at Del Norte Park held up, "V41ct- We looked at the budget at the last meeting. I wouldn'tAanything to be done to the present program. We could hold up on the parking. It wouldn't cause an inconv'T"Ence with the amount of parking we have on both sides of the street and it would be about $7,000.00 and between item 1 and 2 we could find the necessary funds and do the irrigation at Del Norte Park. Mr. Aiassa: Mr. Gillum, the informal bids are $13,000 for • this irrigation system, and this is one reason we have not moved on them. Councilman Gillum: They are now $13,000? Mr. Aiassa: Is that right Mr. Wilson? They are somewhere in the category of $12,000.00 to $13,000.00? Mr. Wilson: Yes. - 1 - ADJ. C.C. 3-4-68 Page Two SWIMMING POOL - Continued Mr, Aiassa: We will re -budget it in 1968-69. Councilman Gillum: Where did we get the original price of$4900.00*? ler. Aiassa: We were planning toIdo it in segments or parts and found we couldn +; do it. Councilman Gillum: I just hate to see anything cut out of Park and Recreation. Mr. Aiassa: The indication at least from the staff and com- mission is that, this irrigation could be scheduled for 1968-69. So we will have to re - budget the $13,000.00. Mayor Krieger: Any further discussion? Councilman Nichols: Yes, Mr. Mayor. I would like to ask some questions. On this item "B", do you all have a copy of that? It was the original summary of the two sheets of a week ago, It is the one aspect of this development I don't understand. In the recommendation that we received on the memorandum of March 1, it indicated that somewhere, on the bottom paragraph on the memorandum to the City Council, that it approved the plans of the concept. I don't remember- in the storm of the meeting that we held, there was any formal approval as it was presented, perhaps I am mistaken. If I am I hope the Council will forgive me. I want to go back to this item "B". In the first lan, or the minimum plan that was presented, the minimum roofed area was 636 square feet, including laundry, storage and toilets, With incidental fees it came to a figure of $15,900.00. In the expanded plan under "B" it says roofed area of 2,000 square feet as compared to 636 square feet including laundry, storage and toilets. All of those items were mentioned in the other plan of 636. Showers and office and check room and the cost has now moved in the second plan to, from an approximate $60,000.00 figure, to a figure of excess of $40,000.00 or an increase of $24,000.00. If there is a staff member present tonight to explain for my benefit or the interest of the other Councilmen, what is involved in this expanded facility to involve the increase of the cost from $16,000.00 to $40,000.00. It would be of much interest to me. Mayor Krieger: I'd like to clarify a point. If I understand the question you are raising, we originally had circulated to us, with Mr. Wright's presentation, an estimated cost dated February 15, 1968 which was in the total amount of $198,338.00. It showed under item "B" what the roofed area was and gave the estimated cost of $40,378.00. That is what we discussed on the Council, It was that rendering and this document that we discussed here on the Council. And that rendering and this document that we voted upon. This supplemental sheet shown in item "B" for $15,910.00 was handed out by the City Manager after our discussion was completed. We never did discuss this item. In terms, it has never even been discussed on the Council as to what was in the comprehension of that. �t wasn't of the architect when he presented it that evening. Councilman Nichols: Did I infer that it was? Mayor Krieger: No. I wanted the record to be clear that what we are talking about is an entirely separate cost sheet, not one we have discussed. If I understood your question you want a explanation, where it jumped from - 2 - i ADJ. C.C. 3-4-68 Page Three SWIMMING POOL Continued $15,910.00 to $40,378.00. Councilman Nichols: Yes it is. • Mayor Krieger: It is inconsistent with what the Council discussed. I don't know where the City Manager got them, after our discussion was complete on the thing., Jumping from one thing to another a report recommending a possible reduction in certain items. Mr. Aiassa° In the vy7'jj)report, the roofed area was 2,000 feet. In the "B" item we cut the area to 636 square feet. Just the bare minimum, covered area which included the utilities. Yes, swimming pool and a check stand or room, Councilman Nichols: Without then alluding to the first figure at all, so there is no con- fusion to my motives or what I am going to talk about tonight, I would like to know, what item "B" on the estimate of $198,000.00 actually includes in terms of physical facilities. Mayor Krieger: Do you have the architects picture? Yes, that one. • Kirk Wilson: The figures that we came up with, the bare minimum, ,included this area (pointing to the picture) which is a housed area which houses the equipment for the pool, the laundry for the School District, a minimum amount of rest room area covered under the roof. We felt that as a bare minimum for opening a pool for community use, this area would be needed. We would not include any of the dressing room or check room area and with this we could operate a program where the youngsters would come to the pool in their bathing suits. Use the small house area to check in, sell tickets and let them into the pool. It did not include any rest room facilities. So this is what the minimum figure is that you have. Mayor Krieger: The question is, on item "B" in the estimate of cost submitted by Mr. Wright, would you please describe the roofed areas. Kirk Wilson: The 2,000 square feet, that includes the area I have just explained; the check room area, the storage for the bags which the participants put them in, check them in, both boys and girls, and office area facing the pool area; administration area and the area that houses the • pool equipment. The dressing for the girls and boys does not have a roof on it. This is an open air type of dressing facility. Councilman Nichols: Mayor Krieger: Councilman Gillum: I will wait with my questions. Further questions on the report. I have another question. On the laundry room, this was requested by the,School District, was it not? Mayor Krieger: Yes, it was, Q ADJ. C.C. 3-4-68 SWIMMING POOL - Continued Councilman Gillum 0 Mayor Krieger: Councilman Gillum: over and above? Page Four They had mentioned a price of $1,500.00. $2,600.00. Contribution to the laundry for the fiscal year 1967-68. Is this $2,600.00 included in the figure that the school is going to participate into this, or is this Mayor Krieger: The report of March 1, 1968 indicates the School District contribution for the fiscal year 1968-69 $40,000.00. School District contribution for laundry for the fiscal year 1967-68, $2,600.00. These are in addition to the two items, $42,600.00. Further questions on the report? Councilman Gleckman: Mayor Krieger: Councilman Nichols: • Mayor Krieger: Councilman Nichols: Mayor Krieger: I would like to make a motion, Mr. Mayor, if there are no further questions. I think there was discussion, Mr, Nichols? Are we still in question? Yes. I have no further questions. We will get into the discussion. Councilman Nichols: Despite mome feelings that I expressed at the last Council meeting, that I or we or one or more of us had been misled, intentionally or unintentionally, I think in the final analysis when a very careful examination is given to the project, that any prudent and sensible person in the City would come to agree tha tie plan that has been proposed for the swimming pool is "to any other site or location more distant from a public street, for it is much more desirable over the long term and will be better served. The interest of the entire City of West Covina, and irrespective of what I feel unfair, distorted and unknowledgeable comments in the press, I believe it is our obligation to provide a facility that will stand the test of time and use over many years, rather than cut the project down to meet certain fis-ures that could have been only estimates at best, that later we would be very sorry that this had occurred. So for myself, I am going to support the staff recommendations and in their entirety, because I think we have delayed long enough and I -link we sho»?d get ahead on this project. I will stand publicly and privately on that positions I work however, think if there are areas where we can economize, whether cr not the funds are being taken from some other project or not and there is one area of proposed expenditure that I really question as to whether we might be able to do without perm- anently and if not permanently at least until we see about this off street parking. And to see if the need is really there, . The lineal curb distance ADJ. C.C. 3-4-68 SWIMMING POOL - Continued Page Five from Trojan Way to Orange Avenue, the immediate block where the pool will be built, is over 1,100 feet on one side of the street alone. I don't know exactly how much lineal footage is needed for parallel curb parking, but I guess 25 feet would approximate for and in that area alone there would be parking for some 44 automobiles. Nor does it mention across the street or the area the school has immediately across the street or does it mention along Orange or Trojan.- It would be wise for this Council to delete the off street parking improvement, and further reduce the cost of the out lay. If it is determined that there is congestion arep, then I feel we should add that parking area, but not as a part of the pool development and it would not interfere. I would like to see that accomplished. if I would have any chance of getting support on it, I would offer a motion right now. Councilman Gleckman. I don't know why I have to be the one to disagree with the remarks that Councilman Nichols makes, but regarding this parking area first of all, I don't think we could at this time with,all of the effort put forward to put in a pool and cut down on the parking in any way, shape or form. If this pool does not fall short even with the amount of parking we are talking about then the need that I see for this pool maybe is not there. But I think the number one problem we are going to have with • this pool is going to be the parking, Regarding the usage of this pool. Maybe not during the school year, but for the 3 or 4 months out of the year when the general public will useit. I don't think we will have enough parking even with what we are allowing here. So, I disagree with Russ, what he is asking, I think we are being penny wise and dollar foolish, I feel if we eliminate the parking area, we would have to come back and negotiate with the school again for the use of that particular area. I can't see the School. District setting aside that piece of property waiting for the City of West Covina to come along to use it for parking. So I disagree with that now. At this time I'd like to not only compliment the Mayor, I was present at the School Board meeting last week and Id like to compliment the School Board. I think they'took an intelligent approach. I thought the ultimate result and the reasons behind their desire to see a pool established here in the City of West Covina, and the manner in which they accomplished ito I think it is about time to get off of this dime now, and complete this recommendation and let's have a pool for West Covina. Councilman Snyder- I will go along with the recommendations of the staff and add to Mr. Gleck- mans, to the Mayor and School Board, about possibly restoring this 5 cent recreation tax, which was removed a few years a goo It was to help with recreation and I think it was a mistake when it wpq removed, If the School Board restores it, if that becomes necessary, I would have a great deal of courage in the face of what would be obvious public dis- approval. It was put there for a good intention, and I think that it serves a good purpose. I go along with all the recommendations. - 5 - ADD. C.C. 3-4-68 Page Six SWIMMING POOL - Continued Councilman Gillum: I would like to make a comment on what Mr,. Nichols has proposed. We have cut some thin[p out of the pool and Mr. Gleckman was talking about doing it the proper • way. Yet, inside the enclosed limits of the pool we are cut- ting out an area between the parking lot and this covered area which can be used for participants in the pool. We cut this out to bring the cost of the pool down. I would rather do without the parking lot. We started out with a figure of $135,000.00 and we eliminated the cost of the covered area, brought the cost down to $184,000.00, and I think it is our responsibility if at all possible to bring the cost of the pool down. I think this Council made a pledge that we would build a pool. I think the first recom- mendation was when we were going to use school facilities and we find we can not and now we are going to build a parking lot. I prefer to eliminate the parkingolf it shows we do need it, we can get future parking. If we could hold up on the narking and see if there is a need we could go back. But if we are going to eliminate anything to cut costs, I°d rather eliminate the parking than I would the interior of the pool itself. Mayor Krieger: I'd like to comment that the conversation here tonight about this swimming pool, leaves me somewhat mystified. A week ago we receiyed a report from the architect on this matter to consider the various proposals • before us on the board. And the preliminary cost of it, which indicated $198,336.00. The official. action that the Council took that evening was to 0. Ko the preliminary plan and to authorize the architect to proceed with drawings as they were to the pool only. Not the rest of it. T#e Council did something else however. They authorized me to appear before the School Board, which I did, last Tuesday night. I made certain repre- sentations to the School Board, which I 4now find emba,rrAssi,ngo The members of this Council know that I talked to them Indi- vidually as to what I intended to say, And I said what I was authorized to represent. And I #now find that the discussion leads me to wonder, in truth and in fact, if. I could in all good conscience, appear before the! School Board again and make the recommendations I did make. And if necessary, I'll appear before the School Board again, on my own initiative and apologslz,& to those gentlemen for making certain statements of fact, of which I did rely, And to the best of my ability, presented to them. And it was my understanding through individual consulta- tion with each of you gentlemen before that appearance that the concept of the pool. and the preliminary plans were acceptable and that it was also acceptable to the recommendation to the School Board that the City could find sufficient funds to raise our commitment from $1,35,000.00 to $151,000.00 which is $16,000.00. And that in here would be a deletion from the Sombra, which would ,save $6,900.00. And to request the School Board to actuponthat bases to raise the funds to finance the • pool. I can t help but believe the men of the SdDol Board relied on the statement of fact I made that night and in taking their action. If the situation were reversed, and you had come to me and asked me, as to my position and then had to go out and relied on the statements you had represented to rae, how would you feel at an evening like; this? for all purposes, I feel that the questions that should have been raised, either to me directly after last Monday night, so I would not have been placed in a position to go to the School Board with statements ADJ� C XC 3-4-68 Page Seven SWIMMING POOL - Continued as to what the City Council was proposed to do, so I would hal— felt these statements were not warranted and I would have spoken for myself alone and made it perfectly clear on the record T was speaking for myself alone. But there was one point only raised by the School Board last Tuesday night, I indicated to the School Board that I was not authorized to speak for the Council and that was, what if the bid came in under. I said, although I was not speaking for the Council, I felt that the Council would be prepared in such an event to allow a reduction in the amount of the School District and the City Council. Now, in our Bodies, is this built in problem of how you negotiate and arrive at a con- clusion and judgement in this matter. But this is the one that the City Council initiated and this is the way it was presented, I acted in good faith in presenting to the School Board that night and when you talked about substituting one item for another, you talk about deleting a different item, Then I don't think that the facts that we are discussing are the same that were before the School. Board last Tuesday night, And I think those gentlemen could ask us how do you come to make certain representation to us if you aren't prepared to fulfillthem, Councilman Nichols: You telephoned me, Mr. Mayor, at my home and you made a specific request that I concur in you making, a contact with the School Board to see if ad- ditional financing might be achieved for this project. I con- curred in that, I do not have a recollection that you related to me, a staff recommendation that the Sombra be deleted from this project, Maybe I'm mistaken but. I received no formal recommendation that the Sombra be deleted from this project, until this evening„ It is my feeling that you]A-1 a greater disservice at the feet of the Council for discussing potential of a further step of negotiation, than you lay at our own staff for presenting here: tonight a deletion from that same plan that we approved as a Council at the last meeting, Now, either the staff has no right to amend the original proposal this evening that we approved at the last meeting and hence we have no right or if the staff has a right, then we, as Councilmen in the City have the right. So I think there is no effort involved to im- pugn your responsibility or make you out a liar to the School Board nor to cause any difficulties at all. We could recom- municate on an item if that should come about. All of us in our jobs, after we have communicated on matters have reconsidered. In our negotiations with the State Highway Division, I ap- preciate your cmcern but I think the vigorous nature of your words, directed toward me, is somewhat over strong in the light of the circumstances, Mayor Krieger- May I respond in just this way•. My comments were directed to each member of the Council, not at any individual members But I say to each member, my conversation • with each member was not verbatim, but I was covering the same items. It was imperative I cover the same items with each one, because I had to present figures which I covered with you, I have a recollection of covering this item of the Sombra deletion because that was the only place we were picking up the $6,900,00. I can't account for the conversation, other than my positive recollection, Russ. But as long as the point has been raised, I discussed the financing because that 'was the - 7 - • r� U ADJ. C.C. 5-4-68 SWIMMING POOL ® Continued Page Eight only thing I was appearing before the School Board about, financing, dollars and cents. This Sombra was the item and the only item I discussed with each of you gentlemen for de- letion and that is my recollection, Councilman Gillum: I'd like to answer to this. We are sometimes accused of not listening to the citizens and the question I brought up about the deletion of the Sombra versus the parking lot has been asked of me by two or three people of the City. They would rather see the Sombra other than the parking lot. It is my responsibility to explore this. There was no intent to put you in bad light with the School Board. I agreed with you on phone. All I am saying to this Council is that request from two or three citizens and a member of this swim- ming pool, Blue Ribbon Committee. They would rather see the entire pool area and delete the parking iot at this time. I am not trying to back out with the School Board. If it is the desire of this Council to reverse this fine, if it isn't, then I'll drop the subject. Councilman Snyder: The Mayor, in his discussion with me on the phone, did mention deletion of the Sombra. In my estimation, the deletion of the Sombra is the deletion of a luxury, whereas the parking lot would not have been planned, it seems to me, unless needed and I can't see it is in the lux- ury class. The Sombra can be added later if necessary but the parking lot is a part of this whole plan, necessary, certainly in the view of the architect Pnd staff and I don't see why we cloud the issue. Again, the Sombra is a luxury, the parking lot is not. Councilman Nichols: I said gentlemen, at the on set that I would vote for the entire project, because I do feel it is a worthwhile project. I do not want to see the Council's dis- unity on these points. On these other matters, I think we are entitled to our own opinion. One says we are clouding the issue, the other calls it a luxury, These are all opinions. It is obvious that three of you favor the project with the parking lot as proposed and it would be just a little asinine to vote down a $190,000.00 project because of a difference of opinion on a $7, 000, 00 parking lot. I still. remain a little ccr^nrrod Mr. Mayor, with the implication on your part that the Council showed bad faith on the part of the Council. It was not my in- tention to show any bad fm.;4 in any respect,, at any time and I don't think that you would respond in that way to other gentlemen on the panel. I'm ready for the motion, Councilman Gleckman: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we authorize the City Attorney and the staff, to mod.fv the ex® sisting School District -City agreement to provide for the fiscal Participation of the School District and to return it to the City Council for approval. Councilman Snyder: I second the motion, Mayor Krieger: It has been moved and seconded. Roll call, Mrs. Preston. ADJ. C.C. 3-4-68 Page Nine SWIMMING POOL - Continued AYES: Councilmen Gillum, Mayor Krieger NOES: None ABSENT: None 0 Mayor Krieger: Nichols, Gleckman, Snyder, The motion carries, the vote unanimous. Councilman Gleckman: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we approve the allocation of additional funds needed to totally finance the swimming pool as set forth in a report dated March 1, 1968. Mayor Krieger: Is there a second to that motion? Councilman Snyder: I second it. Mayor Krieger: I'd like to discuss this item. On a report back to the Council which was a voluntary statement on my part as I alluded to before, the question was raised by a member of the School Board as to if the School District made a contribution of no more that $40,000.00 towards this construction and if in fact the construction bids came in under $19,000.00 which would be the addition of the prospective items, what would be the City's position regarding the contribution that would be made by the School District. I responded without the benefit of consultation with you gentlemen and that is that I feel in equity and fairness that the cash contribution of the School District should be proportionally reduced on a reduced bid with the contribution of the _VryAnd I think that the record ought to indicate either in affirmation or ratification rather, of that position that I took before the School Board or the record ought to indicate that the Council has other feelings on that matter. Councilman Snyder: What happens if it is higher? Mayor Krieger: Both the City Council and the School Board are going to be faced with their decision in this matter. That question was raised too, and the response was the obvious one. The Council always has the right to re- ject bids, and if the bid comes in over $190,000.00 we would have the option to reject bids or bids under $190,000.00. I feel confident in this field, because we had the foresight to hire the pre-eminent architect in this field, in a specialized field. One member of the Council asked the architect about how he arrived at these figures on these items as to the construction of the pool itself. My re- collection is that Mr. Wright said that we priced it out at a time and material basis. So I'm fairly optimistic they will come in pretty close. But the point is, what will be the City's position if the bids come in under? • Councilman Nichols: Well, Mr. Mayor, the motion by the School Board incorporated that sentiment. Therefore the refusal of the Council to accept that commitment or suggestion would nullify all of the action of the School Board and involve renegotiation again on that matter. I think that would be ADJ. C.C. 3-4-68 Page Ten • C SWIMMING POOL - Continued totally unnessary and I am prepared to vote on that as an added condition. Councilman Snyder: Councilman Gillum: Councilman Gleckman: Mayor Krieger: Mrs. Preston. I would agree. I support that, yes, I was at the meeting. I agree. All right. Then let's take a roll call vote on item 2 and take that as a separate motion. AYES: Councilmen Gillum, Nichols, Gleckman, Snyder, Mayor Krieger NOES: None ABSENT: None Mayor Krieger: The motion carries, the vote unanimous. May we have a separate motion on this to proportionate reduction on the amount of contribution. Councilman Snyder: It has been moved that if the actual bid for the above mention- ed swimming pool and improve- ments is less than it is presently estimated, the School Districts contribution and the City's contribution will be adjusted as proportionate amount. Councilman Gleckman: Second. Mayor Krieger: It has been moved and seconded. Any discussion? Roll call. AYES: Councilmen Gillum, Nichols, Gleckman, Snyder, Mayor Krieger NOES: None ABSENT: None Mayor Krieger: The motion carries, the vote is unanimous. Now item number 3. Councilman Gleckman: I would move Mr. Mayor, that the we authorize the staff to notify the architect to prepare working plans and specification for the facility in accord- ance with preliminaries presented to the Council on the 19 of February, 1968. Councilman Snyder: Seconded Mayor Krieger: It has been moved and seconded. Any discussion? Councilman Nichols: Yes, should the deletion of the Sombra be included in that in- struction? The earlier date included the Sombra, did it not? 10 - ADJ. C.C. 3-4-68 Page Eleven 0 • SWIMMING POOL - Continued Councilman Gleckman: Mayor Krieger: Councilman Gleckman: Councilman Snyder: Mayor Krieger: AYES: Councilmen Gillum, Mayor Krieger NOES: None ABSENT: None Mayor Krieger: That is true. I think that item 3 tied into item 2 as far as the allocation. of the additional funds. With the deletion of the Sombra I would say. Put that in. Second. It has been moved and seconded. Any discussion? Roll call. Nichols, Gleckman, Snyder, The motion carries, the vote is unanimous. Now item number 4. Councilman Gleckman: I would move Mr. Mayor that we authorize the City staff to instruct the architect to pro- ceed on,a schedule for pool completion by September 1, 1968, with the knowledge that the City understands that State approval of the plans might occur after award of anstruction contract and that this could possibly result in a change order to the contract. Councilman Snyder: Mayor Krieger: Councilman Gillum: Second. It has been moved and seconded. Any discussion? The School District is aware of this possibility? Mayor Krieger: The presentation on this item as to the telescoping of the time schedule was not developed at length in formal presentation to the members of the Sdool Board. It was presented informally by me to each member of the School Board before the meeting. Roll call, Mrs. Preston. AYES: Councilmen Gillum, Nichols, Gleckman, Snyder, Mayor Krieger NOES: None ABSENT: None Mayor Krieger: The motion carries, the vote unanimous. Mr. Aiassa, do you need any further action in this matter? All right, item number 2 is the Union Oil Mr. Aiassa: Oh, I beg your pardon, I do. We reviewed the zoning at the exsisting Edgewood High SdDol which allows construction under variance number 242 granted late in 1958. This was an unclassified use permit or precise p1a., we never filed, since the ordinance at that time did not require one. The staff has reviewed the 2 or 3 possible ways Of us putting this into leeal action as far as the addition ADJ. C.C. 3-4-68 Page Twelve • U • SWIMMING POOL - Continued to the school site and I'd like to have permission from the Council tonight to meet with the administration staff of the school, who in turn will meet with their board and come back with some kind of recommendation to the City because there is three possible alternatives. One of them is the issuance of an unclassified use permit which is the quickest and the City can initiate this and the swimming pool for recreation facility. Two would be a rezoning which is, -now still under the underlying zone of R-1, could be rezoned to P-B which would take approximately,3 to 1i months to initiate before the building permit could be obtained. These are the two most desirable ways to go and I prefer the unclassified use permit i-f it is acceptable to the school officials. Mayor Krieger: When did this question pop-up Mr. Aiassa? Mr. Aiassa: Well, we have been researching into the time tables to initiate the building structure. Most of us are under the apprehension that this was under a precise plan. I initiated this myself, because I didn't want to get caught into another parking lot down here where Starks is. Now we have adequate time to precede this well within our time schedule which is why I am bringing it up tonight. Councilman Snyder: It seems to me that you can go ahead on a unclassified use permit and if you feel the zoning is necessary, do that secondarily. Mr. Aiassa: That is the recommendation we would like to discuss with the school. Councilman Snyder: Why is it even necessary to discuss it with the School Board? Mr, Aiassa: Well, it is their property and it is their zoning and I think it is just more of a courtesy and I think it a good understanding to have with them so that we can explain the details to them, Councilman Snyder: What I mean is that you can do both. Unclassified use permit first and then,.,. Mr, Aiassa: Well, the first thing we want to do is get the unclassified use permit processed and then start the pool. This is the main thing that we want to do, Councilman Snyder: I would move that the staff be allowed to discuss this matter with the School Board, Mr. Aiassa: Then I'll return on the eleventh. Mayor Krieger: Return on the eleventh, Councilman Gleckman: Seconded. Mayor Krieger: Are there any objections to the motion? No objections, it is so ordered. - 12 - ADJ. C,C. 3-4-68 Page Thirteen CI �J UNION OIL COMPANY REQUEST TO CONDUCT VIBROSEIS GEOPHYSICAL SURVEY ALONG SUNSET AVENUE Mayor Krieger: the report? We have this report of February the 29, 1968,.with the recom- mendation. Anvthing to add to Mr. Aiassa: No, we don't, but we do have Mr. Norrison and a few of the elite representatives for the Coun-cil to ask any questions if they have any, after reading the report. Mayor Krieger: Are there questions on the staff report? Councilman Gleckman: I have a couple Mr, Mayor, First I'd like to ask the staff, have we permitted this type of survey within the City limits ever before? Mr, Aiassa: Councilman Gleckman: throughout the City? Mr, Aiassa: Councilman Gleckman: public knowledge? Mayor Krieger: Position again, please? Mr, Norrison: Mayor Krieger: knowledge? Not in my 10 years. Would this be setting, in the opinion of the staff, a prece- dence for other companies to do It could be possible. This is a question maybe of the party that wants to do this. Will the results of this be Sir, if you are going to respond, will you please come forward. Would you give me your name and John Norrison, of the Union Oil Company, Department of Santa Fe Spring The question, Sir, is, does the information that is obtained in this manner become public? Mr. Norrison: No, Sir, it doesn't. Councilman Gleckman. Can you tell me who retains the mineral rights on the property on which you hope to make this survey? Mr, Norrison: Well, the resident of the property, • as far as we know. I don't think there has been a title check on it. The usual case the resident of the property have the mineral rights and in the event oil is found, then the residents share accordingly, to the square feet they own, to the royalties. Councilman Gleckman: It is possible that who ever owned that particular piece of property and subdivided and sold that particular piece of property, maintained the mineral rights, and the residents have no mineral rights. - 13 - ADJ. C.C. 3-4-68 Page Fourteen UNION OIL COMPANY REQUEST TO CONDUCT VIBROSEIS GEOPHYSICAL SURVEY ALONG SUNSET AVENUE - Continued Mr. Norrisono Very good possibility, Councilman Gleckman; In the case of that then, • Mr. Aiassa, would the resident or who would have the juris- diction as to allow them to go ahead on the basis in order to make something if they did find Oil, • • Mayor Krieger: Are you prepared to answer that question Mr, Aiassa, There are men who spend their whole life in that career and if you have an expert answer I'd be interested, Mr, Aiassa: The only thing I have experienced in one other City is that the mineral rights or the subsurface rights doesn't give them access to the surface rights, You still have to have the authority to go to the surface rights, Councilman Gleckman: Who retains those rights? Evidently the City does, if to maintain° they are asking our permission Mr. Aiassa: Normally the mineral rights, which could be reserved in various factors. In the City of Santa Paula, there is one owner that owns the entire mineral rights of the City. Councilman Snyder: How about the streets? Mr. Aiassa: Well, some streets are only for street purposes. They don't have a fee and title. Councilman Gleckman: I don't really have an objection to this Mr. Mayor. I'm just trying to figure out whether we would be opening another Pandora's box throughout the City, with a sudden rush of all of the oil ampanies fighting for different rights down different straits, Maybe I'm being facetious about this, but I am trying to touch all of the basis and I don't see anything in the staff report that has anything we can do with it, one way or the other. Councilman Snyder. I don't see what we can do as a City ref-Arding this. This is something between the sub- divider and the buyer of the property. I don't know how we, the City, have any control over that. Councilman Gleckman: We must have some control, if we have to give permission. Mayor Krieger: This is the basis of the question, as I understand it, using a public street. I didn't see anything in the report on how long this is supposed to take and when it is supposed to be conducted. Can you tell us, Mr, Norrison? Mr. Norrisono We work about three -fourths of a mile a day and I understand we have about a mile and a half to two miles in your City. From the San Bernardino Freeway north to Irwindale. 14 - ADJ. C.C. 3-4-68 Page Fifteen UNION OIL COMPANY REQUEST TO CONDUCT VIBROSEIS GEOPHYSICAL SURVEY ALONG SUNSET AVENUE - Continued Mayor Krieger - Are you talking about two to three days? • Mr. Norrison- One or two days, once we get started. As to the starting date I cant tell ,you, yet. But I will say, we would notify the City twenty-four hours in advance before we start work. Also the Police Department and Fire Department. Motion by Councilman Snyder, seconded by Councilman Gillum, that the recommendation of the Staff be accepted, subject to the prior approval by the City Attorney of the company's insurance policy against claims of damages. Motion carried on roll call vote as follows; AYES- Councilmen Gillum,,Nichols, Gleckman, Snyder, Mayor Krieger NOES- None ABSENT- None ABC APPLICATION; CREST BAR (Protest) Mayor Krieger- The next item is the ABC application for the Crest Bar, The recommendation, if you • remember, of the Chief of Police was protest and if I remember correctly it was on two grounds. A number of vio- lations and the record of the applicant. We have a supple- mental, report dated March 1, 1968. Captain Ryan, are you here on this item? Captain Ryan- Yes, Mr, Mayor Mayor Krieger: All right, T assume Captain Ryan is p1'epared to answer have on this, any questions the Council may Councilman Snyder, Does a bar require a new permit with a new manager? Mayor Krieger- Will you give your name and Position for the record. Captain Ryan, William Ryan, Police officer for the City of West Covina. Councilman Snyder, Is this a beer bar or a cocktail bar? Captain Ryan, I believe it is a beer bar. I • am not really familiar with this evening, but I this report here. I got it am sure it is a beer bar, Councilman Snyder- Does a bar require a new permit with a new manager? Captain Ryan- Yes it does. I can quote you the section if you wish. Councilman Snyder: The second question is the basis - 15 - ADJ., CC. 3-4-68 Page Sixte.en 0 ABC APPLICATION; CREST BAR (Protest) - Continued of your protest. Is it more on the record of arrests and trouble in this bar or on the record of the new manager? Captain Ryan.-, Councilman Snyder: Captain Ryan,, Councilman Gillum-, or do you have a copy? Captain Ryan: Mayor Krieger: Both . Which has the greater weight? The record of the bar, C^ptain Ryan, you have a copy of this report. Where was it originated? Is this from us The particular report that you are holding in your hands? From El. Monte Police Department, Any further questions of Captain Ryan? Thank you Captain, Councilman Snyder,, It seems to me on the basis of not so much the record of the manager but of the police calls and the arrests at the bar that the protest of the Police Chief should be supported, Councilman Gleckman, Is that a mot. -Ion? Motion by Councilman Snyder, seconded by Councilman Gleckman, that the City Council protest the ABC application for the Crest Bar, Motion carried on ro.1_1 call vote as follows-, AYES. Councilmen Gillum, Nichols, Gleckman, Snyder, Mayor Krieger NOES! None ABSENT: None COMMITTEE FOR ADVANCEMENT OF SPECIAL EDUCATION FOR THE MENTALLY RETARDED REQUEST TO SOLICIT FUNDS Mayor Krieger-, Next is the follow up on the Committee for Advancement of Special Education for the Mentally Retarded Request to Solicit Funds. Is there any member of that organization here this evening? Apparently there still is not, Discussion on this report, Councilman Gleckman, Mr, Mayor, I can't see any- -'thing in the information that we received where the City of West Covina or anybody involved in the City of West Covina would benefit from this program and I feel, we have a lot of worthwhile organizations that are of direct benefit to the people of the community that we have been involved with in the past. That this would just bring another organization from outside of the area in to solicit the people of West Covina and I am against it, Councilman Snyder: I would agree, Mayor Krieger: All right, I think there should be a motion, - 16-, ADJ. C.C. 3-4-68 Page Seventeen 0 C� J U COMMITTEE FOR ADVANCEMENT OF SPECIAL EDUCATION FOR THE MENTALLY RETARDED REQUEST TO SOLICIT FUNDS - Continued Motion by Councilman Gleckman, seconded by Councilman Snyder, and carried, that the City Council deny the solicitors application. . PROCLAMATION FOR GIRL SCOUT WEEK Mayor Krieger: We have a request here for a proclamation from the Girl Scouts of the USA, celebrating their Fifty-sixth anniversary and unless there is objection by the Council, we will proclaim March 10 through the 16 as Girl Scout week, No objection, so proclaimed, SAN GABRIEL VALLEY SYMPHONY ASSOCIATION Mayor Krieger: The.,next is a communication from the San Gabriel Valley Symphony Association. I'll try to summarize this one. We support the San Gabriel Valley Symphony Association. I think we, Mr. Aiassa, is it $200.00 or $250.00 a year? Mr, Aiassa: We had it in the budget, but I don't think we paid it. Mayor Krieger: Well it was in the budget and I do hope we paid it. In any event, we are orP of the sub- scribers to the San Gabriel Valley Symphony Association, They are the oldest Symphony orchestra in Los Angeles County on a continuing basis, Their Chairwoman called me last week and asked if we would take a position through Supervisor Bonelli's office, that their appropriation be increased from $2,500.00 to $10,000.00. I indicated to this Chairwoman, that before the Council could act on such a request that we would have to have more statistical information. And she sent me a letter. And the reason I .bring it to the Council tonight is that they are meeting with Supervisor Bonelli on March 8 and we dis- cussed this last Wednesday night at the meeting of San Gabriel Valley Community Mayors and the portion that the San Gabriel Symphony is receiving, is not their fair proportion of the county^widet;didtribution of funds available for Symphony orchestras, As I understand the fund, it is $85,000.00, which is distributed among seven orchestra groups, Long Beach received $27,000.00, Glen(:ale received $15,000.00, Pasadena received $11,250, and San Fernando received $10,000.00. Downey received $5,000.00, Inglewood $3,500.00 and as I in- dicated before the San Gabriel Valley Symphony only received $2,500.00. They received less than any other organization. The extra funds that are being requested would be used pri- marily to enlarge the youth program. As of now they present only one youth artist concert per season and the intent of this organization is to request Supervisor Bonelli to ask for a fair allocation of funds from the county, not to in- crease the fund available to the musical organizations, throughout the county. And they feel a fair allocation of the $85,OOO.-00 would be $10,000.00 rather than the $2,500.00 that they have been receiving. The request before the Council - 17 - ADdo C.C. 3-4-68 SAN GABRIEL VALLEY SYMPHONY ASSOCIATION Page Eighteen 11 U is whether or not the Council, wishes to adopt an appropriate resolution for transmittal to the Supervisor of the District,. Councilman Snyder - Councilman Gillum: Councilman Gleckman: I would so move. So move. Did the Mayors come to a conclusion? Mayor Krieger: I reported to the+m, as well as Mayor Consodine, the Arcadia Mayor, we did not have the statistical information on this, We had requested it, and it was supposedto be available before last Wednesday night and was not. This came in my mail the following day, despite the post mark on it. Each of the Mayors agreed they would discuss it with their respective Councils. Councilman Gleckman: I have no other questions. Councilman Nichols: I have a question. It seems to me, that one key ingredient is missing. It is difficult for me to believe that the county approves from $3,OOO.00 to one community and up to $15,OOO.00 or more for another community, without a reason.&YUPsthe contributing budgets or contributing funds, are based upon the fund raised by various organizations for their own generation of programs or events. I don't know at all if that is the case here. I would be reticent to recommend an increase of any group to the county board of Supervisors without some knowledge as to why they divided it the way they did. With more information I'd take a more positive position. Mayor Krieger: I can't account for the fact- uality of the statement, but there is one sentance that per- haps bares on the question raised, W?ile many of the private associations account for one-half of the money allocated by the county, the San Gabriel Valley Symphony Association raises seven times the $2,250.00 Apparently they raised, according to this letter $17,500.00, Where the representation is made, some of the other symphonies account for one-half of the money allo-i,tedo Councilman Nichols: That helps, Councilman Gleckman: I go along with the thought that Councilman Nichols brought up. We don't know what they are comparing to in the activities, the performance or the facilities. I don't know how we can judge just on the basis of the dollar amounts as she suggests, Councilman Snyder: All we are asking is the share, as the Mayor said. Councilman Gleckman: Mayor Krieger: county evaluate. 9In effect, if they are giving a fair Now that changes the motion, I understand the request to be a fair allocation, ADJ. C.C. 3-4-68 Page Nineteen SAN GABRIEL VALLEY SYMPHONY ASSOCIATION m Continued Councilman Snyder- I'll rephrase it. I move that we pre3are a resolution to the county to allocate a fair share of the fund to the San Gabriel Valley Symphony, in comparison with the other allocations throughout the county, Mayor Krieger: All right, that is in speci- fication to the motion. Councilman Gillum° Second. Mayor Krieger: AYES: Councilmen Gillum, Mayor Krieger NOES: None ABSENT- None The motion as restated now stands. Any discussion? Roll Call, Nichols, Gleckman, Snyder, Mayor Krieger: Mr. Aiassa, the United States Conference of Mayors, for some reason, are billing me direct now. Did we not delete this from our budget, this $100000? Mr, Aiassa: On this legislative bulletin, the items, the staff presently is . reviewing each of these items and you will have a report from us on that. Mr. Bud Carpenter discussed about five of them before the entire delegation which I will bring forth, Councilman Gillum: I had a call from a gentleman in the Sunset and Vine area, where sidewalks Pre proposed, and he indicated he had received a letter from the-, Mayor, indicating that this program was going to go forward. They have circulated a petition to present to the City Council next week, with nine signatures opposing and one supporting the installation of sidewalks in this area. Mr. Aiassa, do you have any communication in the area of Sunset and Vine. Mr. Aiassa: I do not recall. Do you Mr, Zimmerman? Mr. Zimmerman: Not since the last discussion that the Council. had, Mr. Gillum, where the Council authorized them to proceed. There has been no further word, Councilman Gillum: A petition was signed, Mayor Krieger: They referred it then, those • petitions and the position of the staff and came back after checking with the School District and indicated that they wanted to proceed on that and Council reaffirmed the action, Councilman Gillum. They would like to communicate with the Council, with nine people that live on this street. I suggested they talk to the City Manager or City Clerk And be put on agenda for next week under oral or written communication- MR&M ADJ, C.C. 3-4-68 Page Twenty • AMENDMENT TO SECTION 6378 MUNICIPAL CODE Attendance of Minors Councilman Snyder: Yesterday, I planned to tike my sons up to play billiards at the family billiards hall, east of the Eastland Theater and I invited a friend of my sons to go along and he said "No, it was against the law," I said it can't be. I am the one that passed that law. I read the ordinance and it said it was against the law. It says, in effect, that no person having charge or control of any billiard room shall, permit anyone under the age of 16 enter or remain unless accompanied by a parent, without breaking the law. Although I signed this, it was not our intention to prevent this type of thing. I think it should read unless accompanied by an adult, Certainly if we are going to be arbitrary on this, the police, and I have knowledge that they administer it strictly, is going to be our prey on this, if we are going to be arbitrary on this, why were we not arbitrary on the warning tickets? Councilman Nichols: Councilman Snyder: guardian or an adult. Councilman Gillum: Councilman Snyder: Mayor Krieger: I knew we would get to the warning tickets, I would like to make a motion that "R" and section "E" be changed to parent or Which section Dr. Snyder? Section "B" and 19E" of ordinance No. 876 Perhaps you"d better read section "B" and section "E" as it be amended. Councilman Snyder: Section "B" no person having charge or control be permitted under the age of 16 years of age, unless such minor or person is accompanied by his parent or guardian or an adult. Section "Ell, No person under the age of 18 shall remain or visit any billiard room after 10:00 p.m., unless accompanied by his parent or an ad- ult. The amendment is for adult. Mayor Krieger: Councilman Gleckman: Mayor Krieger: There is a motion,, is there a second to the motion? I'll second it, to get it on the floor. All right, it has been seconded, any discussion? Councilman Gleckman: I can remember, I was against it in the C-1 .zone. The rea- soning behind this is, a fellow of 21 years could not bring in 8 or 10 fellows and say I am 21 and of age, they are all allowed here. What would you do to prevent such a situation from happening, which I can see very readily happening, Councilman Snyder: I can't so rigidly guard morals, and I have to have a little more faith in my fellow man to - 20 ADJ. C.C. 3-4-68 Page Twenty-one AMENDMENT TO SECTION 6378 MUNICIPAL CODE Attendance of Minors assume that the manager is going to allow such use. You can not, by any stringent set of rules, allow or protect your children from everything. You allow them to go to the movies without an adult along. At the movies they are possibly sub- ject to sex perverts, etc. From what I judge of the parlor, although under different manavement thin-s r!* Irl he bad, the atmosphere is wholesome. But what I want to say is, before we left home he said we were breaking the law and when I get up there I find out it is against the law, Should I break the law with the kid? I am making the point that obviously, as this is written, it is too strict and unenforceable. Councilman Nichols: I agree with Dr, Snyder, The experience he had results in certain circumstances as unreasonable. I also agree with Council. Gleckman, to remove it leaves it wide open. The suggestion I would make is dif- ferent wording to accomplish what you, Dr. Snyder, have in mind, You might word it in such fashion, "Unless a minor is accompanied by his parent or guardian or the parent of a juvenile with whom he is in company," or some such wording to indicate that if he is in that premise that one of their par- ents should be present. Councilman Snyder: Two months ago, a couple of mothers took their sons up there, and they had one of their grandfathers along. They saw Akron and decided to go shopping. They left the grandfather with the kids, The Police came in and kicked the kids out because the parent or guardian wasn't there, It is too strict enforcement and what you are proposing does not cover this situation. It is not only too strict, it is ridiculous. You can't control your populous, you have to have faith in people. Mayor Krieger: My comment is, I also think it is bad policy to draft resolutions or amendments to resolutions on the books during discussion at a specific meeting. -I think we would be further ahead if we direct the City Attorney to propose alternate language for the Council to consider, than to take an action c,n it, Because your motion, Dr. Snyder, you have "B" and "E" covered and 'IF" and "G" uncovered and you have created an -inconsistency in your motion which could cause another problem to exist. Also I think if the idea is to allow another adult, regardless of his:blood relationship, to be in charge of a minor person, then perhaps what you are really after is that should you have an adult with the authorization of the parent to have the minor with him, Councilman Snyder: I can't go along with this. Your putting him in a position not having knowledge of many • people, It is inconceivable that they would have to have written permission to go in a place such as this, to play pool. You do not require that for the theater, and the in- tent of the ordinance was good but it was never to prohibit or to restrict kids below this age to go there, with a responsible adult. I don't see why you have to have written permission. It is unduly strict. - 21 - ADJ. C.C. 3-4-68 Page Twenty-two 0 AMENDMENT TO SECTION 6378 MUNICIPAL CODE Attendance of Minors Mayor Krieger: Again, my suggestion would still be to perhaps direct the staff and the City Attorney to come in with alternative language to consider change rather than draft the language. Councilman Snyder: I will withdraw.my motion.. Mayor Krieger: Councilman Gleckman? Councilman Gleckman: I'll withdraw.my second. Motion by Councilman Snyder to direct the City Attorney to make appropriate amendments to ordinanor No. 876 which would allow under section "B" children under the age of 16 to visit or enter the billard room with a responsible adult and under section "E" children under the age of 18 to enter with a responsible adult. Only difference is to hours. Mayor Krieger: Is there a second? All right, the motion fails for lack of a second. Councilman Gleckman: I understand the intent of the Doctor's motion, but it is not inclusive enough. I think I would like to see the staff and the City Attorney approach this subject with the desired intent that the Doctor is talking about and that should cover Ordinance 876. In other words, there are many areas in here such as 6378 I feel that this is the desire to review and report back to us as to the intent or request that you are making then I'd second your motion. To leave out the paragraph right after your talking about it. Mayor Krieger: Would you care to frame another motion? Councilman Snyder: Amend 876 to allow minors below certain ages in the present Ordinance to visit billiard houses and family type pool halls, with a responsible adult and not restrict it necessarily to a relative. Mayor Krieger: Is there a second? Councilman Gleckman: If the Doctor would add to that a report to amend so that we would know what we are talking about, not just to amendment, we could at least bring it back to this Council with the report. Councilman Snyder: I will add report to amend by the next. committee meeting. Councilman Gleckman: I accept. Mayor Krieger: All right, the motion is made and seconded. Discussion. Roll Call. AYES: Councilmen Gillum, Nichols, Gleckman, Snyder, Mayor Krieger NOES: None ABSENT: None - 22- ADJ. C.C. 3-4-68 Page Twenty-three Councilman Snyder: We had b letter to Ir.r.S:chabarum from Mr.Wakefield regarding warning tickets, and if this is the letter the staff prepared, it does not reflect the motion that was made on this Council. Mr. Aiassa • minutes. Mayor Krieger: Councilman Snyder: Mayor Krieger: Mr. Aiassa: Mayor Krieger: There was a second letter signed by me that was an actual transcript _ fror. -the Council In what regard doesn't it represent the minutes? Mr. Wakefield's letter does not state the reason which I stated in my motion. Perhaps Mr. Aiassa, you would be kind enough to make that letter available to the Council? I also personally talked with Mr. Schabar.um today,°, Will you make some copies available and then we can discuss it. Councilman Snyder: Secondly I have a question of .the staff. Particularly in the area of the entrance to Galster Park. There is a sign that says private property motor vehicles not allowed. It is very small, in fact it is broken and off the post. I wondered who puts these signs up? Mr. Wilson: The sign is put up by Mr. Galster, the owner of the property. The City has signs similar to that on the other side of the property, in that area. Councilman Snyder: I just wanted to report that it was down. I have an answer from the League Executive Board about the Fire District. This matter has been investigated and everything is in order, if' you want copies. Mayor Krieger: We will have them, made up and circulated. Councilman Gleckman: I have the Board of Directors meeting League of California City agenda in front of me. Is this an indication that you have decided I would be the one to attend since Doctor Snyder said he could not? Mayor Krieger: Councilman Gleckman: Mayor Krieger: I have one too. Maybe they just send them. out to Mayors and Mayor pro-tem. Are you going to attend? I am going to attend. Motion by Councilman Gillum, seconded by Councilman Gleckman, and carried, that there being no further business, this meeting adjourned at 9:00 p.m. APPROVED: ATTEST: MAYOR CITY CLERK