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01-02-1968 - Regular Meeting - Minutesy .t t. MINUTES OF THE ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL 0 CITY OF WEST_COVINA,. CALIFORNIA JANUARY 2, 1968. The adjourned regular meeting of the City Council was called to order by • Mayor Krieger at 7:30 p.m. in the Council Chambers. The Pledge of Allegiance was led by Councilman Gleckman . ROLL CALL Presento Mayor Kreiger, Councilmen Gillum, Nichols, Gleckman Councilman Snyder (arrived at 7335 p.m.) Also Present.- George Aiassa, City Manager H. R. Fast, Public Service Director Owen Me�, rd, Plannin ire for Georgeimmerman, As ° C ty Engineer Lela Preston, City Clerk John Q. ,Adams, Chairman m Planning Commission ORAL REPORT BY CHAIRMAN OF PLANNING COMMISSION ON PLANNING DEPARTMENT WORK PROGRAM Mayor Kreiger welcomed John Q. Adams, Chairman of the Planning Commission. John Q. Adams, Chairmans Mr. Mayor and members of the Council, on behalf (Ire summary) of the Planning Commission I express "thanks" for the opportunity to appear before you and give you a rundown on what our work program looks like. We have placed in order of priority and would like to get your thoughts on the items and take back to the Commission any suggestions or thoughts that you may have on such a program. First we prepared a.resume highlighting the three ma or items. We have narrowed down our initial effort into three areas an this carries us from now until June. A chart on the board lists the various work projects. We -have -had under consideration for sometime and...ho_p.e.fully will c-le.ar the Planning Commis.s.i.on tomorrow night and come to the Council _shortly, _a _revis1on in ..our .Or..dinanc_e which expands the Unclassified Use Permit. (Detailed reasons for needed expansion.) Second item is a review of the Intense Zones. This request came to us from the Council and it was also being considered by the Planning staff. This envisions_going through all our Intense Zones and looking at the uses we now have under each zone and making a determina- tion if they are rightfully in a zone and perhaps creating new zones, It is a most comprehensive type study involving looking at 6 different zones. Rather than try to do all at one time we will start with the R-P Zone and proceed, allowing a month for each zone and bring to the Commission for a public hearing and on to the Council on a one zone a month basis, starting with one a month from January through June. The third item that has been in-house work for a considerable bit of time is our Planned Unit Development Ordinance. Again this has had the benefit of long discussions, field trips, outside.input,. and we now have a draft of an Ordinance. There are still considerable areas of legal c.onsiderat.ion but from.the planning standpoint we hope to have that to the Commission by the end of January, setting public hearing, and hopefully have to Council by the end of February. Going on down the list we have a Hillside Ordinance which again is something that has been discussed and considered 1. ADJO Co Co 1-2-68 Page Two PLANNING COMMISSION WORKSHOP PROGRAM m Continued - for a long period of time. Probably, as a result of our Planned Unit Development discussions we will go a long ways towards resolving some of. our problems regarding the Hillside Ordinance. We had a Study Session.on these various items, •went over what we hope to cover and then placed in the order of priority I.have mentioned. Item Five, is a Commercial Planned Development Ordinance. This we foresee will probably become a part of one of our commercial zone revisions, perhaps in the 0-1 zone. We have a continuing effort in the Annexa- tion studies. Also we have noticed a significant increase in the last three months on our weekly workload involving variances, zone changes and day to day planning matters. And from what Mr. Menard has noticed we are getting a large interest from the public and some involve items of considerable magnitude, We foresee quite a continued upswing in this type of workload. We also have on our agenda a presentation which would be put together as a package add be used for various service groups and to have for developers wishing to come into the Community. A package that can. -,be, pres-ented.. The Sign Program has approached the enforce- ment stage and from the planning standpoint we foresee an effort in this so far as conducting the initial surveys and providing guidelines to those. . actually. enforcing .the_ .amend.ed s ign...or dinanae.o. Finally, a High-rise Ordinance is on our agenda. This has not been placed in any priority at this time. I thought also it would be in order to make you aware of where we are on our General Plano This program contracturally started in December '66 on a 2 year: basis. We feel this schedule will be maintained, which will bring the General. Plan -to. the. Council in -.early fall .and..-hopef-ully _he.o_ame.-a.__r_e�ty be.fo.re .-the-end of this year... _..lit _ the_..Ias.t....._sRszlon_..-w-Lth tha__c-onsul,tant we had a Central Business District presentation and were presented with what we felt was something new and quite exciting as to what the consultant saw and what we could do to improve our commercial areas, The consultant has now taken this under further study with the purpose of finalizing and becoming more specific in his plans and sketches and recommendations. Also, as a Planning Commission and Planning staff we. -haves .c.ans-iderable work _exploring all the .p-oss.ib_ilitie.s of where we can look for financial and outside- help to confront these problems -that we have been bothered with for a long time die feel this is one of the_ more Ampor.. ant._.phas.e� -of .o��x° Genexala_-flan ._bt_udy-__and ._one which will probably be getting the ._mo.s.t _.attention.. __The consultant _also has under study the Hillside -Development, ._a -de-e.p lot _s-tudy, _and .is .reviewing the Blue Ribbon Committ-ee °_s Huntington ..Beach Freeway _report, f-or the purpose of " commenting on the recommendations and thoughts expressed in the report. His total research re_port which is an analysis of our data bank input is nearing completion,so we are looking to a commencement of public hearings by midsummer. Before that time we will have these special studies back to us and work sessions started on finaliiii�go_ As. -you know we engaged a Traffic Engineering Consultant and this study is underway. These people will be in the City this week to become familiar with our problems first- hand.. I would certainly appreciate any thoughts or • comments you might have from a standpoint of first in priorities and secondly m depth we are proposing to goo I have not gone into any great detail I know and if I can answer any questions as to what we are doing and why and when, I will certainly try and answer such questions,, I would like to ask Mr, Menard ® is there any particulsar _area you might wish to e.xpci. on that I have not covered. Mr, Menard. As far as I can determine you hit all the spots, 2 ADJ. C. Co ,..1®2m68 Page Three PLANNING COMMISSION WORKSHOP PROGRAM ® Continued Mr. Adamso One other thing Mr, Mayor. Tomorrow we will have a Junior Planner and also tomorrow we will be conducting interviews for a Plan .1ning AssmIclatea c6pefullys, wit, l these two members coming. aboard we would hope to see our work program move much faster than projected and also • catch up and stay ahead on some of these on -going activities. Mayor Krieger. Mr. Adams, this was an extremely encouraging and informative report for the Council and at least from my own experience on the Council a unique presentation by the Chairman of the Planning Commission, We do thank you for appearing. Councilman Gillum-. With this Commercial Planned Development in this study are you going to look into methods and ways of upgrading or doing some- thing with certain areas of our business community that have continually gone downhill? Nix°. Adams-. It wouldn't be unique to have such an Ordinance on our books'. First of all we will be looking at the uses now permitted in the Commercial zones, particularly 0=1 zone, And in developing such an Ordinance we would incorporate into the Ordinance various requirements having to do with landscaping, setbacks, precise plan requirements m these will be incorporated into the Ordinance so when a commercial development comes in it would come in with a precise plan in conformance with the Ordinance having to do with the landscaping, architectural controls, etc. We have • these tools now but the one big problem has been the enforcement and the other problem bringing all together so a developer knows ahead of time what is expected and he has guidelines to proceed under and the staff has the tools to carry out, Co.uncllman. Gillum., My main c.onc_e.rn -is_ _in certain _areas of the bus.ine_s.s community that over the past years and I am not sure it will fall into this Commercial Planned Development - this only pertains to future developments. Is there any place in here where you are going to get into that which might help us with certain problem areas we now have? Mr. Adams0 I think the Central Business District which is a special study of the General Plan - ® we had a full session about a month ago on the consultants viewpoints on what he had seen and what his initial thoughts were. This I think covers the areas of what you are talking about, where we would be upgrading what we now have. These efforts involve both the commercial interests and the City itself. We would be adding to it a traffic pattern which we have long recognized as being one of the most deficient phases of this development. I think this is the area where we will hopefully make headway on what we now have so far as commercial area problems. This would be taking care of the new developments again heading them off before they reach those points that we are now seeing. Councilman Gleckman-. I am glad to see this progressing the way it is, Do I understand then, in the areas of •t.rans.portation_and circulation and the areas of an action program regarding what Mr. Gillum was referring to such as redevelopment and upgrading m this is going to be taken up within the General Plan Study and not as a separate action program introduced by the Planning Commission? Mr. Adams,- It will certainly. be. part. of the General Plan but U a result of these studie-s we will initiate action outside of the General Plan, insofar as implementing what will be the recommendations in the General Plan.,. These, of course, don't have to wait until the General Plan is 3 ADJ. Co Co 1-2-68 Page Pour PLANNING COMMISSION WORKSHOP PROGRAM m Continued adopted. We had enough input at our first meeting and by the time this is finalized within the next 2 or 3 months, I think we can proceed and go a long way in r°i�solving some of the problems and not have to wait until the General Plan is adopted, • Councilman Gleckmane As one member of the Council, I would .like to see an action program initiated and set forth in motion by the Planning Commission, Also in�our Ordinances, and this is not nit-picking exactly but some of the suggestions that you may bring back to the Planning Commission, would be a time element involved in some of the zoning practices in our City if at all legal and possible. I think this is one of the areas that we have been entirely lacking and I notice from time to time we have talked about it.and received various opinions from our City Attorney, Now we have a new City Attorney and also since that time I have noticed that there are other cammunl,t.iie.s that .have such. things incorp.o.rate.d in their zoning practices. I would like to see this type of thing tried or at least reviewed with our City Attorney so we know.-_once_.and::for..._all if we can control something coming in under a time element on the zoning we put on a particular piece of land. Councilman Snyder. In your Commercial Planned Development do you envision this being incorporated in the present C®1®2m3 zones or _i.s this a separate zone m a commercial planned development area where you would leave the old 0-1 as it is now? Mr. Adamso In practice, some have what they call a C®P commercial plan which is in addition to the other commercial zones. This would be more like our C-1 zones where we consider the compatibility of our commercial with a residential. This would be where we would be looking to an Ordinance where we would have the wherswitha.l_ to acquire the landscaping, the protection, the type of developments we would want to see and the enforcement of such requirements. It would somewhat replace our present 0-1 zone I think, Mr. Menard, One expanding comment. It is at least the the staffs' feelings at this time that in the analysis of the commercial zones that many of the development standards that are currently on the books so to speak in Planning resolutions should be incorporated into the zoning ordinance and our analysis to this point would tend to indicate that some of the most successful planned development ordinances have, generally speaking, been incorporated into the neighborhood commercial zones because that is where they are most needed and instead of being a separate entity to simply make the neighborhood commercial zone more restrictive than the other zones. As Mr. Adams pointed out, perhaps to the point of saying when a zone change for 0-1 or whatever it might be called, is brought to the attention of the Planning Commission, the Ordinance would specify that a precise plans must be presented at the same time and that this precise plan could.go to the point of requiring architectural elevations, all perspectives and landscaping plans at that time rather than waiting sometime off into the future, As it is now an individual can come in and get the zoning and come in with a precise plan 3 or 4 months or 3 or 4 years later. This is a recommendation of our Planning Consultant and he assures me that it has workdd quite well in other jurisdictions they have been involved in, and to take those zones where there is direct exposure to single family residential and indicate to the developer if the zoning is logical you must develop a compatible development with that.to a single family or a multiple family. Councilman Snyder. I can see some legal problems with this where even though they presented a precise plan for a change of zone this would not prevent them from asking for an amendment to the precise plan or can this be -prohibited -under this new ordinance? Or a new precise plan wouldn't that be in fact a new zoning, as well? 4 ADJ. Co C, 1-2-68 Page Five PLANNING COMMISSION WORKSHOP PROGRAM m Continued Mr, Menard: This could be done. The legalities.of it I understand is about the same as now. An individual can get approval of a precise plan but if he so desires it is every citizens right to submit another proposal to the Planning Commission or Council m if he so desires he could do so, but on the other hand he could submit a request to change the zonings if he so desired. It is simply a matter of what the Planning Commission or Council want to approve or disapprove, Councilman Snyder.- This is my point m the Planned Commercial Development is of no value unless you have someway of tying to the zonings because if he gets planned commercial zoning with a precise plan without some method of tying to the zoning he could come back a year later, Mr. Menard.- This is true. The only cities that have the right to condition such zoning to the point of'architectural control or an absolute precise plan.,are Charter cities, The State Planning Act specifically denies the tight to General. Law cities. Councilman Snyder: That is just one thing I was thinking about because it seems to me you have to think about it when drawing up such an Ordinance. The second question is m everybody is of course enthused and.impressed. about the initial studies on the Central Business District also.your Commercial Planned Developments but I am concerned that such commercial pla4nning .lends itself only to the larger. developer and the large -business- man and that we will eventually squeeze the small, businessman out of town because he can't afford to rent here, In designing a Central Business District and your commercial zoning I think you have to keep in mind the small business mans not only our need for him here but his ability to do business here, because as I see it such developments as these are only within the financial reach of the large retail outlets. The person that wants to start a. dress shop on her own or something like that, just couldn't afford the.rent and we still have to have a place for the small. businessman. I am really concerned. I am not concerned if you take that into consideration but you have to leave a place for the small businessman to do business - barber shops, etc, Mayor Krieger: Mr. Adams, with the Planning Commissions primary responsibility being what it is and your tho',ghts being on the planning problems of the community, do you believe this priority list is responsive to those needs in the order of ­priority? Mr. ._A.d_ams: Yes, I do. This was one of the major concerns in setting up the program. Within a reasonable period of time with the capabilities we have to concentrate on those areas that.we.felt were most urgent and some were almost completed, we felt as a Commission that these were the items dnd the priorities. Mayor Krieger: Secondly, I noticed at the time the Planning Commission was doing its interviewing and •reviewing for the consultants for the General Plan, an ad hoc committee was created on the Planning Commission level to devote itself to some of the problems that seemed to arise out of the subject matter of the revisions of the General Plane Have you or the Planning Commission given any thoughts assuming that the thought has any merit to it at all, in addition to the assignment of staff personnel as I notice this project board indicates, to the assignment of specific Planning Commissioners to specific projects as well, to coordinate the activities of the Commission as a whole? 5 ADJo Co Co 1®2-68 Page Six PLANNING COMMISSION WORKSHOP PROGRAM - Continued Mrs Adamss We have one - the Hillside Ordinance, We are maybe unique in having outstanding capabilities in those areas ® Commissioner Davis is maybe performing such a function on the Hillside Ordinance, That was the next .item coming, up that had not had any benefit of research and he as an individual and a commissioner was going to do the research to see that,it got underway right. We haven't assigned individuals to any other current programs.. As we get into areas where as an individual we can contribute to a particular subject or lend research, I am sure we would consider it. But at this time we have only one that has an individual effort. Mayor Krieger. I am not quite sure in my own mind how much merit the idea has, but I simply br-ing..it to. your attention from the one standpoint.'of the impetus that sometimes is .derive.d from the responsibility in thatarea, Has the Commission and the staff as the agent of the Commission, had the benefit in the past as well as in your present activities of the work products of other planning agencies, particularly having in mind the work products of the East San Gabriel Valley" Committee and the Regional Planning Commission and the other planning groups that are in existence in these various areas of interest? Mr, Adams. Yes we certainly have and as you know we have a model Hillside Ordinance and many of these model ordinances have.been covered by the East San Gabriel Valley Planning Committee and other organizations. We were looking tonight at some material that we thought would best cover the Commercial Planned Development and this was in a City close by. We do avail ourselves of'material available and make public contacts. Mr. Men.ard is fortunate in having quite an acquaintance in this particular area both in large and small cities and this ,gives us a good --orms's--seetiono We have members of the Commission who are participating in these types of studies and perhaps contributing more in some areas. For instance they have a Sign and Billboard Committee now actively engaged in the East San Gabriel Valley Committee - I think we can certainly contribute to that type of Committees I am involved in that and Mr. Mayfield is involved in the Transportation Committee where we will be getting the benefit of the overall view of transportation for the entire Valley. Yes._, we are availing ourselves 6f such information and certainly participating in such studies, Mayor Krieger. The only other thought that I have is one for the future which I think the Planning Commission as a body and you as the Chairman particularly might keep in mind for the future and that is the immense value of an: orientation presentation by'.you as to the'progress between this date and late April or early May of this year, as to the work the Planning Commission has been engaged in and the projects you do have underway, both in the form of a resume as well, as for a scope of work projections. I think it would be extremely helpful to update these projects as of that time. Mr, Adams. Yes, I think this type of a presentation would lend itself to a semiannual report. And certainly in early July, with the coming of the new chairman once he has the opportunity of becoming knowledgable he would' icertainly be in a position to make such a presentation. I think this would be most beneficial and perhaps something that should be considered as more or less a routine from now on as far as making such presentations. Mayor Krieger: Any further questions or discussion? Again Mrs Adams, the Council is most appre-ciative of the`.time _you' spent in coming down here and in organizing your presentation, It certainly brings up up-to-date on matters of mutual interest. Mr. Adams a Thank ,you. ® 6 ADJ. C. Co 1-2-68 Page Seven DEPARTMENT HEAD SALARIES Mayor Krieger- We received since our meeting of last week a supple- mental reportfrom City Manager dated December 28, '67, to which are at ached 1 ettain exhibits. Mr. Aiassa, is' there anything to add at this time to the supplemental report? 0 Mr. Aiassa- No, Mr., Mayor. COUNCIL DISCUSSION Councilman Snyder- It seems to me that the reservations regarding the Public Works Director and Assistant City Manager's salary increase, was more related to this salary coming close to the City Manager's salary. My inference from things said was that this was the main fear in regard to raising this salary and not that it was felt this merit increase was not deserved. . Be that or it may not be true, but it seems to me that since that factor f itered in then we cannot discuss raising this salary or that of the other, Department Heads i without at the same time discussing the City Manager's salary. '-raditionally, and I do know a promise was made to the City Manager that his salary would be discussed every January. In the whole framework of Department Heads salary it seems to me we should discuss annually the City Manager's salary. Councilman Gillum- Is there a reason why it is separated from the Department Heads? Councilman Snyder- Of course Department Heads salaries come as a recommendation from the City Manager and in the past they have not been considered together, however traditionally in the past and as a promise, which bears no legal hold on this Council, the: City :Manager's salary has been discussed the first of the year. Again I bring this up because of the inference that the Public Service Director's salary is getting too close to that of the City Manager and therefore it seems to me we cannot discuss one without the other. Councilman Gillum. I agree with you, - if possible, but I don't know how we can work it in. I got the same impression and if agreeable to all concerned, I think we should consider all from the top down, I think it would give us a better picture of the overall range. I would like to see them all discussed from City Manager down to Controller. Councilman Gleckman. Mr. Mayor, my feeling is that I disagree with part of it. I don't think the Public Service Director's salary has anything to do with the City Manager's, but it was brought up and discussed, and I will agree that I have no objection to discussing the City Manager's salary the same time as the staff§, although I don't agree with the analogy and since the Public Service Director's salary was the one sr.iagJedl out, I don't agree with the analogy that it should be compared with what the City Manager gets. I think each of these positirns should stand on its own two feet and if we ask the City Manager, who is the top administrative person in this City, to make recommendations to us I don't think he should have to answer to us as to how close the next man in line is getting to his salary in order to justify the salary recommendation. But again I have no objection to discussing the City Manager's salary. Mayor Krieger. You have heard three councilmen speak to the implication of an agenda item to include the City Manager's salary. Mr.. Nichols, do you have any comments you wish to make? Councilman Nichols- I don't object to it being discussed, but I didn't come here to discuss it. . I don't have any of the data in front of me to help me to give some considered judgment and therefore I would feel somewhat handicapped at discussing a pretty vital matter, at -7- ADJ- Co Ca 1-2-68 Page Eight DEPARTMENT HEAD SALARIES - Continued at least to one person, but I certainly wouldn't refuse to grant the courtesy to what the other Councilmen have suggested. I would comment that the two Councilmen that stated that they got the inference that the discussion of one somehow resulted in the feeling that the one was crowding too close to the other, is not in my opinion a justifiable _statement based on anything that I said or expressed, because my concerns are largely divorced from that:. It. is. o"n.e aspect, but not the primary aspect by any means whatsoever. On the other hand I think it is inevitable, no matter, how ideally one would like to see everyone's salary stand, on its own, two feet, I think it is inevitable that when ,salaries begin grouping that close together there is going to be that comparison. They compare their own salaries, even if the Council avoided the comparison. Each.Depart- ment head compares his salary and discusses it with every other Department Head in range, and compares with those above and below and everyone at a.given level compares their salary with those in the business and in different cities. From the City Manager on down I don't think there is any human-.. w#vva can avoid some comparison of salaries. And it would only be natural then that the Council in its consideration wou.l.d.include that factor among others. That was not the thrust of my concern, If it is the desire to discuss the City Manager's salary I will discuss it. Mayor Krieger-. I would like to make certain that there is no :misunder- standing about this subject matter as it pertains to the Public Service Director's salary proposal as submitted by the City Manager, which it is the responsibility of this Council to make the final • determination on. There were two points that concerned me basically. One was the rapidity of the increases . This stands or falls on the mere analysis of the position of Public Service Director and the responsibilities that may have been placed upon him of a more recent date, and the second phase of it had to do with the interjection of the City Manager's salary into the consideration. But I think the Council would be in error if the consideration was - let us then look to the relative narrowing of the gap between the° Public Service Director's salary and the City Manager's salary, when the entire import of the comment was that if the Public Service Director's salary is justified in the recommendation of the City Manager.: then it should be considered on its own merits and on its own merits alone. A6d, at such time, whether tonight or sometime in the future, that the City Manager's salary is considered by the Council let is also be judged on its own merits and not by any import to be justified by the narrowing of the gap between the City Manager's salary and the Public Service Director's salary, because here again the same justification should hold true and that is the responsibilities of the job as well as any additional responsibilities undertaken since the last consideration of salary. So that I am not particularly concerned about: the narrowing of any gap between but I am concerned about is that the narrowing of the gap should be considered as a.san.gb item for doing anything about anything Councilman Snyder. No one said it was being considered as a single item I also said that traditionally it was traditional to consider the City Manager's salary at the beginning of the year. Secondly, as far as the rapidity of the increases of the Public Service Director, I might say and I am sure this is correct, that each Department Head has had a raise every year - so they have all been, just as rapid and not just the Public Service Director. Mayor Krieger,, Dr. Snyder we have a report which.indicates the dates of the salary increases of all Department Heads Rapidity is both a function of time and amounts and it is not a function merely of time. Councilman Gleckmano I Would like to go along with one of the suggestions of Councilman Nichols and that would be to discuss the ADJ. Co C. 1-2-68 Page Nine DEPARTMENT HEAD SALARIES Continued salary adjustments before us regarding the Department Heads, but request of the City Manager, information regarding whatever, would be needed to discuss the City Manager's salary sometime this month and not necessarily this evening. • Councilman Snyder- I would go along with that. Councilman Gleckman- In fact, if a motion is necessary, I would even put.it in the form of a motion. Councilman -Gillum. I will second it, Mayor..Krieger- Let's finish the motion before we get a second to it, Councilman.Gleckman- I don't think we need a motion to discuss salaries this evening, but I thinkwe would need a motion to direct the• City Manager to prepare information for this Council in order for us to come to a decision regarding the City Manager's salary sometime this month Councilman Nichols. I will second that. Mayor Krieger. It has been moved and seconded - any objections to the motion? There being no objections, it is so ordered. • Councilman Nichols- As I recall at the last meeting two councilmen indicated rather a total concurrence with the recommendations there were made and two or more councilmen indicated some question about it, and it would seem to me to be appropriate then this evening that those that had raised a question proceed to elucidate in terms of the question raised in order that those that had expressed a degree of satisfaction might better analyze the nature of the w ncerns Mayor Krieger. Without there being a stricture on those Councilmen. Councilman. Nichols. Oh no.- I am trying to get rooting space here - if that would be acceptable to the Chair, I would like to elucidate. As far as the total recommendations are con- cerned I have a little, very modest, reservation on the method that has been used before and is being proposed again at this time to double shot, so to speak, raises. That is to request the Council at this date to make a firm committment to approve the total discretion for advancing additional raises during the course of the year which in combination make very significant raises. I think as a practice it is not too good :and I would think it would be just as sound for the City Manager to discuss with the Council what he might have in mind and then return at a later date to the Council for their approval at that time, in order that the Council could review the basis the City Manager has had for requesting a double raise in one calendar year. I don't object strongly cL,.or1'e1!oUgtht, that I would withhold.my approval based upon that issue. .My second concern is that there is one employee year after year that gets a very insignificant raise and again here I am a little unhappy with that and I have mentioned it to the City Manager before this year and that is the position of City Engineer. The offs - on the cost of living indicates that in the past year, the cost of living, exclusive of any taxcincreases which would have come very heavy to the people in the $12, 000 to $14, 000 income, exclusive of those - that the cost of living has increase some 3% over this past year and knowledgeable people seem to indicate that one will need a raise of around some 4 + % to break even. That is to maintain their family purchasing power and here we have an instance where our City Engineer is getting a 2.2% raise, which in effect means he will take home less money in the year after than the year before, and I think that is wrong and if I had my say about it I would say that it should be moved up to at least the 4%, to compensate the man for buying at least his ADJ.. Co C. 1-2-65 DEPARTMENT HEAD SALARIES - Corftinued Page Ten bread and butter. But again those two I would stand aside on and not raise a very strong objection about:. One other objection I have is relative to the position of Public .Service Director. As Councilman Gleckman said at the last hearing meeting - we would all like to be good kuys and this is one time when we would all like to be good A)uys, and I think if we can just keep this out of the personality area of talking about a specific individual and talk about the job. For sometime I have been somewhat con- cerned about the range of this position. When it was last established I was a little bit concerned. If you, gentlemen, will look at the ranges in all of the Department Head ranges you will notice the total spread in the salary for the entire category for a man in the City is only an amount of $400 . That is those men who have worked here in the City in Department Head.positions and have been employed in the City for a decade or more in those positions and yet have not reached the maximum in 10 years time. Good men - any one of them and the range is. $1042 to $1442 and a number of them are at the $1300 to $1400 range - under the maximum by a considerable amount. When you look at all the other, ranges in City Government that is the structured ranges for employee groups, you will find in lessor sums of many a much closer range than that and now we come to the position of the Public Service Director and we see a range of $700.. A discretionary pay range of $700. This is a far greater discretionary pay range than.I have ever been personally familiar with in that service type of position and so initially it provides a very large range., Historically, .as I recall, the pay of our, Public Service Director's position was ranging in the $1300 . or $1400. -rangy and because of a set of circumstances quite abruptly the Council authorized the increase in the salary existing for the position at that time as it was being filled, The incumbent then placed into the position in March of 1965, came in at a figure which was comparable to the figure that was being paid the outgoing Public Service Director and then in a relatively short time, raises have been granted in the terms of 7% and 6% and at that time to my best recollection, was that the City Manager was attempting to move the Public Service Director into a more competitive range. Now I think at some point you surely must reach a competitive range and it would be my judgment that the remuneration for this position based on comparison with all vaguely similar positions now places it in a very competitive range„ So I feel that for any man to begin his service in the middle of the est:abli.shed range and within a couple of years to have that salary placed near the upper end of that range, where that range has a spread of over $700 o is tending to place the city's governing body in a position of projecting into the future and seeing salaries in upper executive ranges getting out of that range where the City Council would rightfully feel they should be So this concern has grown and reached the point where even.though my remarks might be construed on a more personal positional basis I feel compelled to say that the salary as stated is quite good, in fact is very good already and probably slightly higher in the range than with compar.at.ive and competitive cities and I feel we should use a great deal of discretion before authorizing it to run to a much higher range except where additions are necessary to maintain purchasing power, Councilman. Gleckman. I would like to speak to some of the points that • Councilman Nichols brought up. I don't see where you can use one example to prove a point and then dis- regard the same example to disprove a point and that being in the salary range which is set up. Accept the salary range in one position and not accept the salary range in another position - if you are going to use for comparisons. The remark, I believe, was, made that some of the people within, this City that have worked for this City for 10 years or more, have not reached the top echelon'range that we are talking about for the Public Service Director, Now maybe I am using, or didn't hear it right, but I am now comparing a request from 168`8—; i 71 5and then I drop down to one of the categories that I think. Councilman Nichols is referring to, and I am getting a request for $1.345. to $1405 a Now the man that is going to $1405 and his top salary is 10 - iVADJ. 1-2-68 DEPARTMENT HEAD SALARIES - Continued Page Eleven 91442. he is a lot closer to the top of the range than the man that gets the top is $1946, if you want to compare it that way. So I can't see where you can take an example of dollars and cents and compare it to the sa-laryarange set up in that field and say you disagree with. that salary range percentagewise or even qualitywise down the line. We can't take every position and say just because a man has tenure or has been here 15 years - - if that position doesn't call for that kind of money which goes along with the responsibilities. I think our Public Service Director's responsibilities today are far greater than those of some of the positions below that, primarily because he has been put second in command and in charge of those very same people that are in charge of their own element. Now if you are going to take those responsibilities that we gave the Public Service Director away from him and. go out and hire an Assistant City'Manager or say to the City Manager that we don't want the Public Service Director to do these things and we want to lower the range , then we have to lower the responsibilities as well. We cannot increase the responsibilities in a given position and then turn around and talk dollars and cents and say we don't think the man should get that type of money without fir.9t discussing the responsibilities that that position entails. I disagree with the analogy used regarding the, City Engineer. I can I appreciate exactly what the remarks made have to do with it. I think that question should be given to the City Manager. Along the same line there was a remark about double raises in a given year and the only two positions I can. see - going down the line - was one of 7-1-67 and now back again as of 1-1-68 is that of the Planning • Director and I don't think there is a doubt in any of the Councilmen's mind why the two raises in the two positions because they are both new men and were probably hired at a lower,salbry than was maybe promised, Now I am only going by what I have in front of me - I have a Public Service Director of 1-1-67 and now 1-1-68; Police Chief of .1-1-67 now 1-1-68° same thing with the Fire Chief, the Director of Recreation & Parks, the City Engineer, the Assistant City Engineer and now when we get to the Planning Director it is the first time I see Y-1-67, and now -,-VTe are re,vlewing if-' gain in 1-1-68. And that was explained to the Council, at the last meeting by the City Manager; and the same thing applies to the Controller. So unless I misunderstand some of the remarks that you made Councilman Nichols, I would have to go along with two things that I said last time - and I didn't say "good guys" last time. It had to do with the zoning case as far as a popularity contest with people in the audience, it didn't have anything to do with salaries . First of all we have a City Manager that supposedly and I am sure nobody can argue "runs the ship. " We have turned around and said "alright you have a command of officers that are helping you run.this ship, we want to make sure that they are paid adequately because we are competing with private enterprise and other, cities for the top talent. Now what is your recommendation for the responsibilities given them in the past that they have already done, also what are you projecting for them to accomplish in the coming year and now what would you feel would be a fair and justified increase for the given responsibilities ? " He has given us his recommendation and as far as I am concerned, unless there is something specific such as why the City Engineer has not received the same percentage of increase as the cost of living and that I would live up to the City Manager to answer when we are all through discussing this, but outside of that I can't dispute any of these salaries and specifically the Public Service Director's, becauseI think the Public Service Director in a City of our size carries more responsibility than a Public Service Director in some of the other 9 to 13 cities we are talking about. . Now if a Councilman, or the Council, feels I am incorrect in this and can show me where a Public Service Director in another community is making much less money and has the same responsibility, than I would have some grounds to discuss it and then maybe either we hired a man and raised him too fast and are overpaying him - - but until such time that is stated to me I have to go along with what I see being accomplished in this City by the employees and the type of job they are doing and with what they have to do it with, and as far as - 1 1 - ADTo 1-2-68 DEPARTMENT HEAD SALARIES Continued Page Twelve I; am concerned, the management which is the engine which makes the rest of the train move - I am very satisfied with it and I think what is being requested here is not out of line. Councilman Snyder. May I speak in rebuttal? First I have two questions. Mr. Aiassa, I notice in your revised report you don't mention the Special Service Officer? Mr. Aiassa. No, the Special Service Officer was mentioned in a flat salary. Councilman. Snyder. But in the last report you mentioned a $20.00 a month raise? Mr. Aiassa. Yes, it is in the proposed Resolution, also the Deputy Civil Defense Director. Councilman. Snyder: Second, when you suggested a raise for the Controller, part now and part in Juzly = is the raise in July part of this Resolution or is it necessary for you to come back in July with another request of Council? Mr. Aiassa: No this is part of the Resolution now. I met with the two Department Heads and they are the lowest paid of the group I have discussed with them what they have to accomplish in their operations between now and July in order to receive the raise i. n July. Mayor Krieger. May we have the reading of that portion of the Resolution pertaining to the two staff raises ? Mr. Massa. The Controller's monthly salary as of 1-1-68 will be $1120 if approved and $1185 after June 30, 1968, if the City Manager approves at that time. Councilman Snyder. I think we need to get back to the point that is why do you give a raise to Department Heads ? It seems to me it is a myth to talk about cost of living increases for people in salaries above $1100 a month, because cost of living increases are for basics and Cadillac's don't go up 3%, and that is not really the reason for giving a raise. It seems to me again raises are for merit primarily and secondly_.for increased duties and increased knowledge of the position and increased responsibilities in a position that may take place in different departments and has nothing to do with cost of Living, because again these people are being paid much in advance of the cost of living, at least fr(am the average wage. So back to the point - if it is merit, or change of duties than we should take the evaluation of the City Manager in determining who • gets how much raise. If there is a difference in percentage of raise for different people, it must be because either these people are not performing, or secondly their duties have decreased and I have to take his word for it in this case that the people recommended that their duties have increased that much. Again if these are merit increases, than from my own experience in performance, I cannot really criticize any of the increases and certainly I cannot single out the Public Service Director for criticizing, both in regard to his responsibility and his right to a merit increase. I go along across the board with these recommendations. Councilman Gillum. I think most of the things I wanted to say have been covered by Dr. Snyder and Mr. Gleckman, but I have no - 12 - ADJo 1-2-68 DEPARTMENT HEAD SALARIES - Continued Page Thirteen objection whatsoever to the pay increases or as to the method these two department heads are going to be increased over the next months o I think- I said this last time. We have a City Manager who works with these peoples knows their duties and their faults, and their good points` we see them maybe once or twice a week and I don't think I am qualified to sit up here and say the Public Service Director is worth X number of dollars or the Controller is worth X number of dollars. I leave that to the discretion of the City Manager. When it gets to the point that I don't think any of the Department Heads are doing a proper job and I get a recommendation from the City Manager to raise them, then I think it is time to talk to the City Manager. But I think we have to relFy on the man that deals with these people, It is his responsibility and if he feels that these increases in salary are what these people should be given, I have to rely on his ,judgment and his recommendations. I don't find any quarrel with it, the only thing I find is that someplace along the line and.I don't know the answer, - - that we start jumping one City over the other in the overall pay structure of the Cities . It seems that when these pay things come we try to compete and I think honestly so with other communities to retain the people we have and. that it is going to have to come to a screeching halt because it is going to skyrocket over all. Councilman Nichols- Well. I can see how the vote is going to be on this matter and there is no point in prolonging it. Councilman Gillum has made his positioncquite clear. I would only like to say Councilman. Gleck.man you have an uncanny facility, I think, for misunderstanding the statements other Councilmen make on occasion and dramatically placing them in the position of idiocy, otherwise I don't know that I at anytime said I opposed a double raise. I said.I would prefer the method of the City Manager coming back to the Council in the second half and saying now gentlemen that which I talked to you about before I wish to implement at this time. I would prefer having that review and the opportunity to pass on it but I said I did not feel. strongly enough about it to make an issue. But I did not oppose that. I did not oppose the range for the Public Service=Director, I said the range is extremely wide and therefore for sound fiscal reasons I believe great care should be taken in the p.l a.cement of an individual in that range because it is an. unique range. I have otherwise said all I need to say. And I don't feel that strong about it. I have made the points- I feel I sho4dd make in all sincerity and would certainly live with the decision of the majority without complaint. Mayor Krieger- I would like to ask Mr. Aiassa a question with respect to the Building and Safety Director and the Cont-roller. This procedure as such has been clarified with the City Attorney as to form and this procedure is permissable in the form of adoption of a Reso.luti.on by the Council? Mro, Aiassa- Yes, Mr. Mayor, The only difference I believe is that one cannot be paid for back service. And.I need this tool to induce the two employees o a e . Mayor Krieger- I am not arguing with the tool. I just want to make sure that this is a permissable tool to use. I can understand why you would want this discretion, but at the same time I want to make sure the Council has the option to give you this discretion. Mr.. Aiassa- Yes it is legal. Mayor Krieger. We did seem to function around the salary of the Public Service Director the last time, but only because it was the first in line and not because of our concern of that particular recommendation. And probably here again. some of the comments are - 13 - ADJ. 1-2-68 DEPARTMENT HEAD SALARIES - Continued Page Fourteen expressions merely of opinions that should be voiced and again it has nothing. to do with the incumbencies that we have, We can raise those questions in an executive Issession but we can't raise this subject matter, in an executive session, so we have to speak at the only opportunity we have to speak them. This is not a time of a vote of confidence in the performance of the City Manager nor of these Department Heads. ,J The City Manager's responsibility is to evaluate these Department Heads and he does so quite adequately and frequently, and I am sure his recommendations to the Council are manifestations of their performance in a tangible form. On the other hand the law states that the City Council will finally make the determination and this is why we are going through the time and trouble of discussing the subject matter, and if it is to be construed as a vote of confidence of the City Manager or any of these Department Heads then.I do believe it was misconstrued because there is a time and place to discuss that and this is neither the time nor place to discuss it. I have some specific questions on the report that the City Manager gives us in terms of his recommendation - and again we will start with the Public Service Director. Mr. Aiassa, you indicate the Public Service Director on January 1, 1967, salary was fixed at $1638 plus $50. Was the $50. figure fixed at the same date 1-1-67? Mr.. Aiassa: It was part of the Resolution Mayor Krieger-. Then the recent action of the Council having to do with the additional responsibilities of the Public Service Director as to additional title carried with it, as I remember, no distinction as to compensation, is that correct? Mr. Aiassa: You mean the Public Service Director? No there was no compensation. Mayor Krieger: Now the Public Service Director .is entitled to this + $50 under the original Resolution going back. to the 1.-1-67 in what respect? Mr. Aiassa: As acting in the capacity of Assistant City Manager as well as Public Service Director. Mayor Krieger. Is the $50. only when he was Acting? Mr. Aiassa-. No it was to compensate him for the additirnal work that I was giving him. I tested him for this one year period to see if he carried the responsibilities I assigned to him. Mayor Krieger: Then the recent action of the Council having to do with the enlargement of this position described his job in • what regard. as it pertains to the compensation he has been receiving since January for this job? Mr. Aiassa: Well it is going to be rather hard.for me to sit down and try to explain all the fine details of administration Mayor Krieger: I am not asking that but it seems to me that what we did in January of ' 67 was to start paying the Public Service Director for a job that we did not specifically give him by Ordinance until later in the year? - 14 - • • ADJ� 1-2-68 DEPARTMENT HEAD SALARIES — Continued Page Fifteen Mr. Aiassa: No, we changed the title from Public Service. Director to Public Service Director and Assistant City Manager. Mayor Krieger. And that was. done when? Mr. Aiassa: I don't have the Resolution with me. Mr. Fast: I believe it was the sametime as we awarded the bond issue on the Civic Center - July of '67 Mr. Aiassa: Well anyway is there anything specific that you would like to ..... Mayor Krieger: I thought my question was specific enough, but if you want it more specific - - is it not a fact that the man has been compensated since January 1, 1967, for a job description that was later picked up specifically. Mr. Aiassa; Mr. Mayor - for specific answer we do not have a job specification for an Assistant City Manager. As a matter of fact I have contacted three cities and none of the City Manager's, including the. City Manager of San Diego, has actually processed.per se a specific salary or job description for Assistant City -Manager. Mayor Krieger: Then you don't want us to consider as we consider the salary of the Public Service Director in anyr elation to the Assistant City Manager? Mr.. Aiassa: That is not the question because his responsibility as Public Service- Director varies. Tomorrow I could have him do solely nothing but administrative work. This is not one of those jobs that you set a man up running a department, he is now in the aspects of administration and last year was a testing ground and he proved to achieve certain requirements that I expected in the Public Service Director and the Assistant City Manager's position. He -is now completing a course at Cal -State in Public Administration. Councilman Snyder. Would it be fair to say that his duties as an Assistant City Manager are in line with your job description? Mr. Aiassa: He does certain things..... there isn't a job description for the City Manager. The City Manager's overall responsibility carries 14 different operations and it varies from handling Grand Avenue interchanges to you name it. Public Relations, etc. , Blue Ribbon Committees, etc. This delegation of my administrative authority to Mr. Fast varies. Tomorrow he might be charged to handling five Blue Ribbon Committees. Now if I want him solely to stay as Public Service Director then we ought to just reduce him down to Public Service Director and I will go out and hire a new man for Assistant City Manager. Mayor Krieger: Mr. Aiassa, why do you persist in changing a legitimate area of inquiry to one of harassment and abuse? I am simply after information. Mr.. Aiassa: I am not harassing or abusive. I am simply stating certain things - 1s - ADJ. Co Co 1-2-68 DEPARTMENT HEAD SALARIES Continued Mayor Krieger. Page, Sixteen Do you think the question is harassing or abusive? Mr. Aiassa. Yes, I think the question is to the point that you are • trying to identify nomenclature of an Assistant to the City Manager that is not identifiable. I can't sit down and right now give you ten or fifteen things that are directly administrative • s Mayor Kri.eger. That isn't what I began to ask. I asked what specifically was the enlargement that Mr. Fast indicates took place in.July of '67 by Resolution? What did we do by Resolution? Mr. Aiassa. You changed his title to Public Service Director and Assistant City Manager. Mayor Krieger,. So we have on the books in the City of West Covina... an Assistant City Manager? Mr Aiassa. Right. Mayor Krieger. Whether you have a job description on your ;)ooks for the Assistant City Manager is irrelevant, isn't it? Mr. Aiassa. That is exactly what I said. Mayor Krieger. Now going back to the question of January 1, 1967 I asked you what the additional $.50. was for that was being paid to the Public Service Director? Mr. Aiassa. For the added duties that I gave him. that were strictly' administrative duties and were n.ot 'lined in with the Public Service Director's position. Mayor Krieger. And these duties, would they not be the type of duties that would be performed by an. Assistant City Manager? Mr. Aiassa. That is absolutely right. Mayor Krieger. So is the conclusion not to be derived therefrom that the man was being compensated as an Assistant City Manager starting January 1, 1967, even though he did not get that title designation until July of 1967? Mr. Aiassa. It was on an experimental basis to see if he_�aould carry the responsibilities and duties of the Assistant City Manager and that was our trial period to which we agreed. Mayor Krieger.. Now we finally get to the point I really was interested in. As far as you are concerned with this recommenda- tion you are beyond the trial period of the Public Service Director -acting in a dual capacity of Public Service Director and Assistant City Manager? Mr. Aiassa. We are still in a semi. -dual position. Mayor Krieger. You are satisfied that the Publici Service Director can function in the dual responsibility of a Public Service Director and Assistant City Manager? - 16 - ADJ_ C. Co 1-2-68 DEPARTMENT HEAD SALARIES Continued Mr. Aiassa- Yes. Page Seventeen Mayor Krieger- This was the only point in the whole half hour that I have spent in discussing this particular salary recommendation that I was the least bit interested in. Now when we go to the position of Assistant City Engineer - my apologies Mr. Zimmerman that this again comes up where you are personally present, and it has nothing to do with your functioning in this position. Mr. Zimmerman- I understand that Mr. Mayor. Mayor Krieger- In January 1967 the Assistant City Engineer, I understand, received $1135 plus $50 additional. What was that $50. for Mr. Aiassa? Mr. Aiassa- Maybe I won't answer that question - no, I will attempt again. As the Council knows I have been trying to establish second step positions to the key positions. Mr. Fast was assuming a basic responsibility to the Administration, Mr.. Zimmerman was assuming responsibilities from Mr. Fast's office, so in a sense of the word he was assuming responsibilities of the Public Service Director and he has two positions Mayor Krieger- Now in your professional opinion as City Manager, has this dual -function -'worked out? Mr. Aiassa- Yes Mayor Krieger. So the Assistant City Engineer is able to act in a capacity of Assistant City Engineer and at the same time when called upon he is able to act as Assistant Public Service Director? Mr. Aiassa- Last Tuesday night was a perfect example... . Mayor Krieger. Then your answer is "yes" ? Mr. .Aiassa- Right Mayor Krieger. Now talking about the salary of the Assistant City Engineer this percentage increase as of January 1,.'67, was 12.6% - which I am sure was much higher than any other relative percentage increase that we experienced at that time? Mr. Aiassa: Do you want me to make a comment? Mayor Krieger. I would like you to make a comment if you care to • make a comment in terms of your thinking behind the percentage increase being what it is with such a heavy increase having occurred just a year ago in that particular position. Mr. Aiassa- Two reasons - one is when we hired Mr. Zimmerman he started out at $842 and I think he has shown marked improvement and has carried on more of the responsibilities of the duties of the City Engineer. He has also acted in the capacity, since we have had a vacancy, of Traffic Engineer - he has filled the void. And also carried the management phase of the operation. I also feel he has attended all the Planning Commission meetings and City Council meetings and has - 17 - ADJ- C. Ca 1-2-68 Page Eighteen DEPARTMENT HEAD SALARIES - Continued shown initiative as far as doing the job he is called upon to do and also trying to relieve Mr. Fast of a lot of the menial details which allows Mr. Fast to absorb few more from the City Manager's aspect of the Administration, and I frankly feel that Mr. Zimmerman will be able, when Mr. Pontow retires in a year or so, to take on the position of City Engineer and Assistant Public Service Director. Mayor Krieger. Alright now we get to the question I really was interested in under the Assistant City Engineer. Can the City Engineer in this City according to your professional opinion function in a dual position of :City-E-ngirie`er..and, Assistant to the Public Service Director? Mr. Aiassa. Yes - except not with the present existing position that is now being occupied Mayor Krieger. I am not talking about people - but that position. Mr. Aiassa. Yes, it has been done. You require the City Engineer by State Law to sign legal papers and he is required to be a registered engineer. You now have 3 registered civil engineers, and Mr. Fast has one added and that is structural - which was quite a saving to the City when we handled the Civic Center project - which I just throw in for what it is worth. Mayor Krieger. Being also unenlightened in the whole field in which you operate, I am also concerned in this range - if I read it correctly, as to your range between your Assistant City Engineer and your City Engineer. I appreciate the differential between your salaries as presently w nstituted between the City Engineer and Assistant City Engineer but what I have some difficulty focusing on is the rationale of the salary range for the positions of the two seems to be the same? Mr. Aiassa. Well to get back to the basic question that one of the other Councilmen asked - the City Engineer was not carrying the maximum responsibility of that Division and that is why he .is receiving a minimum of raises, also I would not need that extra man if :I: had the calibre of man that are .now coming up to fill the vacancies. It is very elementary - I did not hire Mr. Pontow, he does a job as was required for a City Engineer, Mayor Krieger. I was not talking about Mr. Pontow, Mr.. Aiassa. I was talking about the position of City Engineer. Mr. Aiassa. It is one and the same. Mayor. Krieger. It is not one and the same in this Council discussion. This Council discussion is salaries for positions, not • individuals holding a position If we are going to get into,a discussion of individuals we better adjourn to an Executive Session. I am asking you why is it that the salary range for the City Engineer is the same as it is for the assistant City Engineer? Councilman Snyder. As a point of order, I believe the Personnel Ordinance states these salary increases are to be made on merit as well as position. Mr. Aiassa. That is right. ADJ. C. C. 1-2-68 DEPARTMENT HEAD SALARIES - Continued Page Nineteen Mayor Krieger- And I am trying to understand the merit of the proposal of the salary range - the City Manager's proposal to us is two -fold. • Mr. Aiassa- Mr. Mayor, the range of the City Engineer and Assistant City Engineer is the same - it is C-Range, starts at $1042 and goes to $1442 . Now if there is a vacancy tomorrow in the position of City Engineer we would probably hire at the range of $1042, if there was no one else available to fill that position thru promotion. Mayor Krieger: You indicated in your original report that you are considering a D range to be added. Mr. Aiassa: That is right. Mayor Krieger: Now I am trying to understand that portion of your report. When you talk about a D range, would certain positions then fall within a D range within the scale of this Resolution whereas other positions would remain within a B or C range? Mr. Aiassa: As you know the A - B - C ranges are merited ranges. Starting with $1042 and goes to $1442; B range is $1259 to $1946; and at anytime the management or • administration feels a certain position merits certain improvements you can move that position along this range with councilmatic approval. This is not a one to five step increase every year the man does his job he gets a step increase. What we are doing now is putting these positions strictly on merit, not cost of living, but merit. Mayor Krieger- Your sentence is that if a D range is added it will be used for the determination of the second level of executives such as Administrative Assistants and others who have direct administrative responsibility and supervising authority. That would be a lower range, I assume, than a C Range in a pay scale. Now in the placing of a position in the range where you have an assistant in the same pay scale range as a supervisor, or city engineer and assistant city engineer - the addition of a D range would have no effect on that unless you chan�e the City Engineer to another range. Is that correct? Because everytime you change a C range you are changing the . range of the scale for your assistant as well as your city engineer. Mr. Aiassa- We are not changing the C range. Mayor Krieger: Doesn't your proposal recommend an increase in your C range? Mr. Aiassa- No. Mayor Krieger: It does in my report, it goes from $997 to $1042. Mr. Aiassa: That is the percentage of the cost of living that is put on the ranges at both ends so it stays within essence of the ranges that are now established in the Personnel system. Mayor Krieger: But you are proposing increasing the ranges.... . Mr. Aiassa- I am proposing to do so at the beginning and endings. - 19 - ADJ. C. C. 1-2-68 DEPARTMENT HEAD SALARIES - Continued Mayor Krieger: Page Twenty But you are proposing increases aren't you? Mr. Aiassa: We adj sted _ them so they stay in line with the . overall employees, the_ people they are supervising. This doesn't affect their salary per se. This means if I recruit tomorrow and I didn't do this that the beginning salary of this C range personnel would be lower than the people they would supervise. Unless you keep them all together at least on the level . with the cost of living increases of all employees, soon your newly hired supervisors would be below those he is supervising. Mayor Krieger: The C range affects the Assistant City Engineer as well as the City Engineer? Mr. Aiassa: It doesn't affect the individuals salary.... . Mayor Krieger: It doesn't affect the individuals salary? But within that range it affects him the same The next question... . Mr. Aiassa: Let me finish one other thing - if you want to go into the details of administration I will go into the details. The City Engineer will be retiring in about a year. Mr. Zimmerman will be in the category of taking that position and he should be in line for that salary. Mayor Krieger: The Planning Director's position - I notice h-e had a percentage raise in July of 1967 and you are recommending a percentage increase January 1, 1968. You indicated in the Controler's resume the previous salary of the previous controller. Can you give me the same information as to the salary of the previous Planning Director? Mr. Aiassa: I believe - Mr. Joseph was getting $1100. Mayor Krieger: At the time Mr. Joseph left the position he was then at $1100? Mr. Aiassa: Yes. Mayor Krieger: This is the salary then that the present Planning Director was hired a t ? Mr. Aiassa: That is right. Mayor Krieger: I have no further questions. Councilman Nichols: I would just like to make one concluding observation, Mr. Mayor - it doesn't have to do strictly with the issue at hand. I am coming near a completion of a 4 year term on the Council. The City Manager has brought many recommendations before the Council since I have been here. In almost four years I have never _had, -the occasion ever before that I know of, to raise any issue or any question about the salary recommendations. Ideally I would like to discuss some of these matters privately but the law of the land has become such that practically everything must be discussed openly. I recognize that we hire Mr. Aiassa as the City Manager of the City, and I recognize that we should by and large accept Mr. Aiassa's recommendations because that is what we hire him for and if we reach the point that we do not trust his recommendations we should fire him. I know all of this, but it does not in my mind - 20 - ADJ. 1-2-68 DEPARTMENT HEAD SALARIES - Continued Page Twenty-one imply that the Council sitting up here as representatives of the Citizens, who sent the Councilmen , can never rai se these issues, must always say - month after month, year after year - yes, I agree and that is the end of it. . And there is some inference, at least as it comes to me, and perhaps Mr. Aiassa would like to respond, but I get some indication that when I feel compelled because of the job I have to do, to raise an issue that Mr. Aiassa reacts in some fashion as if I lost complete faith in the City Manager and that I am not letting him do his job and therefore I am stepping beyond the role I should be playing as a City Councilman. Now it is not my intention to impugn the City Manager or be raising a question � of one out of a hundred recommendations to infer that I have lost faith in him, but it is of some concern to me that Mr. Aiassa's response is such that ' vvould create the general impression here in the room that he believes that the Council does not have the prerogative to raise these issues at this time and in this setting as the law states itself. I would like to get some response either to clarify it one way or the other, because I don't feel that the issues raised by the Council are improper and yet I tend to feel that Mr. Aiassa is highly irritated with the Council having raised these issues, and I leave it only by saying - if we don't raise them here where can we raise them? Councilman Gleckman: I hope he doesn't give you the same answer you gave me. Is Mayor Krieger: Let's give Mr. Aiassa the opportunity to respond, if he cares too. It was a question directed to him. Mr. Aiassa. I don't particularly care to respond. I think the question answers itself. Mayor Krieger: Alright Mr. Gleckman, did you care to make any further comments ? Councilman Gleckman: Yes I think if Councilman Nichols directs a particular statement like this to our City Manager over a dis- cussion that we are having regarding salaries, I surely can't ask for us what I wouldn't want to give to the City Manager. I sure :couldn't expect the City Manager not to fight for what he thinks is right and sit back and say you are right, you are the Council and you have every right and.I am sorry I did this and everything else. And I realize once again, ..Councilman Nichols, that I did not understand what you said but if I .did undsrstdnd then I` don''t thirikr, this iti.the proper time to discuss what you asked for. Councilman Snyder. May I comment that all the questions and comments made tonight will look different in print then they are in the tone of voice they were asked and the Council is just as guilty as the City Manager as far as my ears ran discern. Mayor Krieger: Is there anything further on the issue which was the proposed Resolution? May we have the reading of the heading of the resolution? RESOLUTION 3714 The City Clerk. presented. "A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL ,OF THE CITY ADOPTED OF WEST COVINA AMENDING DEPARTMENT HEAD SALARIES OF RESOLUTION 1277. " Mayor Krieger: Hearing no objections, waive further reading of thl'body -of said Resolution. - 21 - ADJ. 1-2-6-8 DEPARTMENT HEAD SALARIES - Continued Page Twenty-two • Motion by Councilman Gleckman, seconded by Councilman Gillum, that the City Council�#,do.pt said'.Resoiution. Motion carried on roll call vote as follows: AYES: Councilmen Gillum, Nichols, Gleckman, Snyder, Mayor Krieger NOES: None ABSENT: None THE CHAIR DECLARED A RECESS AT 9: 10 P.M. TO 9: 25 P.M. SAN BERNARDINO FREEWAY AGREEMENT Mayor Krieger: We have a staff report dated December-29, 1967 and attached to it is a proposed agre.eme.nt and -document entitled "Status of Detailed Negotiations" with the State and an exhibit having to do with this matter. Is there anything further to add, Mr. Aiassa? Mr. Aiassa: N.o, m Mr_ Ma.x .Gillis. came in _to.day and went', over the pro_posnl _agr.eement ._and .the . •supplemental _letter signed .by Mro _Legarrao Mr,. Gleckman-was there and I beli_e.ve.Mr,. Le.g.arr_a'.s c.omment.s were that he felt we. had ..a .wor_thwhile. agre.ement.e Thera - are_ a _c.o.up.le.. of .legal _pro.blems, and if the Council-fe-els this should be submitted for State approval I would like to have Mr,. Wakefield look this over tomorrow, Mr. Williams up to this point had worked on this agreement until his death, and then Mr. Terzian took over his notes and worked on it, but I don't think we have had anyone sit down and go over it in detail, which we would like to have done, and this task will be assigned to Mr. Wakefield tomorrow. Councilman:Snyder: I would like to comment. The Freeway -Agreement -tnclu-d1ng _tti­e---att-ach-e-d._.map .however, you have an attached outline here wh1ch.__s tatea..same- nf. _these _it eme .s uch...as ac.qu.is.it.i.o.n__o.f.. un.d_erp.ass.e.s_ the right--of.®way at. Service and. Pacific is only a feasible agreement. Therefore, this Freeway Agreement doesn't really specify right-of-way acquisition, etc,, ® does it? Mr,. Aiassa: Yes, it does. Page 3 clarifies it, Councilman Snyder: Does this .Agreement include an underpass at Service and Pacific? Mr, Aiassa: Yes, Councilman Snyder: Also, does the Agreement provide for continua- tion of traffic during the widening phase or will the Freeway be closed? Mr, .Aiassa: There will be a separate construction phase that will be forwarded to the City at the time the final plans and specifications are outlined. The construction phase will then be worked out in detail and forwarded to Council for approval, Councilman Snyder: There- is nothing in this Agreement then that - 22 - ADJ. C . C . 1- 2- 68 Page Twenty-three SAN BERNARDINO FREEWAY AGREEMENT - Continued prohibits them from closing the Freeway entirely for an indefinite length of time? Mr. Aiassa: No, they cannot actually, this is only the first step, the next step will be the plans and specs and it is at that time that the City and the State come into final details as to how and where the construction begins. Councilman Snyder: Where does it say it? Mr. Aiassa: This is the accepted procedure. Mayor Krieger: We had a meeting with Mr.. Hoy about 2-1/2 years ago and after we first proposed our plan in '66 when this subject was discussed, Mr. Hoy was more concerned about this subject of interference with the Freeway than we were, particularly when it came to our request to widen the underpass. And big excuses were offered, one was - well look at the displacement problem we are going to have with the underpass- es so let us come back in a few years and then do it - then the question is when do you come back. Councilman Snyder: It seems to me we are going blind still on whether they are going to close off the Freeway - if we signed this • agreement now. Is there anything in the law that prohibits them from closing the Freeway? Mr. Aiassa: Yes there is. Councilman Snyder: Not if they provide suitable detours like the Pomona Freeway. Mr. Aiassa: This will not happen and the staff and myself and the State have agreed that we will work out some detailed construction plans and until we get the final plans and specs there is no use in trying to sit down now and determine what the construction aspects are going to be or what they are going to do for detours. Councilman Snyder: It is my understanding and I don't know where I heard this, but the Corona Freeway will be completed between the Pomona Freeway and San Bernardino Freeway to pro- vide a convenient detour around this portion of the West Covina section.during the year or two of construction that the Freeway will be routed 605 and back-up the Corona Freeway. Mr. Aiassa: You are dealing in two different aspects. You are talk- ing about a brand new freeway that at present does not • exist. Councilman Snyder: I am not. I am saying that they are not going to start: the widening until they complete that Freeway so they can use it as a detour. Councilman Gillum: Mr. Aiassa,, isn't there a time limit on this - that all construction has to be completed by '73. 1 don't think the route for that Corona Freeway has actually been adopted. Councilman Snyder: Yes it has. - 23 - ADJ. C. C. 1-2-68 Page Twenty-four SAN BERNARDINO FREEWAY AGREEMENT - Continued Mr. Aiassa: I think basically what Dr. Snyder is pointing out is • that we don't want them to start in 5 or 7 or 12 different areas all at one time. If they are going to start in an area, let them complete it Councilman Snyder: What I am talking about is the detours. The detours have to be local for local traffic. They cannot be routed around 605 and the Corona Freeway which will be done at that time. Mr. Fast: There are two points I might make. First of all the Freeway Agreement is between the State and the City only where those matters pertain to the City, not to the Freeway at all, but to the Freeway interchanges as they enter the City streets. Therefore, the Agreement does not affect how the State may choose to operate on the Freeway itself. From an engineering standpoint with 6 lanes operable on the Freeway and -with them adding a lane additionally on each side it would give the State a tremendously difficult situation if they were to attempt to close down the San Bernardino Freeway and detour as proposed as to allowing the traffic to be main- tained in the middle and merely add a lane on each side. Mr. Aiassae There is one more aspect; this is also the Bureau of • Roads, it is part of our national highway system. Councilman Snyder: Well they can if they have found suitable detours and they will have the Pomona and 605. Councilman Gleckman: Mr. Aiassa, if the staff and yourself feel that nothing like this will happen then it wouldn't hurt to put in the contract that at no time will the San Bernardino Freeway be closed during construction, and if they balk at that then that means they have thoughts of closing the Freeway. I don't see where that is such a problem. Mayor Krieger: Gentlemen, this is not precisely the item for discussion. Secondly, there have been many circumstances of widening the San Bernardino Freeway and they have never closed the Freeway. There was a logical place downtown where they could have done just that and they still did not do it. Councilman Snyder: It seems to me it is the logical subject for discussion because as far as I am concerned unless . this is in here I won't vote for this agreement. Mr. Aiassa: We can add this to the supplemental exhibit. Mayor Krieger: There are a lot of things we could ask to put in the Freeway Agreement but because we ask doesn't mean it is an item of substance, negotiable either by the City or the State. - 24 - ADJ. C. C. 1-2-68 Page Twenty-five SAN BERNARDINO FREEWAY - Continued • Councilman Snyder: We don't have to sign it. Mayor Krieger: Has this concern just come to you tonight or has this been a concern you have had for sometime? Councilman -Snyder; It has always been a concern. Obviously it was brought up when Mr. Hoy was here - you just said SO. Mayor Krieger: It was brought up - details of the underpasses, what the displacement would have to be as far as the Freeway, but no one brought it up as far as the Council was concerned with regard to the total closing of the Freeway, prior to tonight, that I have any recollection of. Councilman Snyder: Still with the amount of interchanges that have to be changed and the widening it could still represent a real problem and over a two year period which could be very damaging to our retail outlets. I am not concerned about the thorough traffic - that can go around Pomona, but it can be damaging to our retail outlets if such things should happen and I think we need some guarantees that such things won't happen, because this widening and the underpasses and the interchanges are again probably a two year job. I think in dealing with Freeway Agreements as well as anything else,, that we need these guarantees to protect our own merchants. Councilman Gillum. Mr. Aiassa, when they changed Vincent interchange, was it completely shut down at anytime during the construction period? Mr. Aiassa: Mr. Zimmerman ..... Mr. Zimmerman: No. South Vincent was kept open in some manner. Traffic was routed at various times. Several years ago, at the Division of Highways office, I saw the plans for the Pacific -Service interchange and they were very complicated going through about four stages and not suitable for a public meeting such as this. As I recall they provided for traffic at all times in all directions during construction. I am sure we could get this information from the Division of Highways, because this was one of their main concerns regarding the widening of underpasses at Vincent, Azusa and Sunset Avenues. - 25 - ADJa C. Co 1®2-68 Page Twenty-six I* SAN BERNARDINO FREEWAY AGREEMENT = Continued Mro .Aiassao They must also have City approval when re- routing traffic and using City streets, Mr. _Zimmerman,*, 1.� I might be able to..get a copy of this drawing. Councilman Snydere I am sure I would be happy to get it, All I am concerned is their' --sending them around P_o.mona way, They can send the thru traffic that way and that may be wise, Councilman Gleckmano I have a couple of questions. This talks about a completion date, It doe.sn't talk about a starting date and what happens -if sueythenSaeplete by January 1, 1e973? What are you going to do, Mr, Aiassao ' Their. _r.e.s_po.na1bi-lily is. funds. and I believe this _must .-be epa.aifie.d.._in the. -Agreement that the job is contemplated to be completed by 1973. These are Federal Funds m 98%o Councilman Gleckmano This is. for their benefit and not ours, that is number one. Number two m who has the say so as to what phase of the construction they do first, last, in the middle or what? Mr. Ai as e a o We -will.--ha-ve -s-ome -s-ay --so h ac-a e.--when -he . final plans and specs came ..in .f.or appr-oval at -that time the Council can direct the staff as'to where you would like to see the first phase of construction start, and it can then be so instructed to,the 'State so when they call for bids they will.know where they are to start. Councilman Gleckmano is hwahe realin min Aias-sa, an-that rIngtu. ofcurey 9Mis-the Plaza with that hook.ram into California Avenue. I am con�c-erne-d that -some -of --the-s-e --areas thN need relief that when relief is given that it doesn't come too late. Mr, Aiassao. There are two ways to approach this, Councilman Gleckmano All I.,want to know is do we have anything to say about it? Mr. Aiassao Yes. Councilman Gleckmano Ano.th_er_ -thing m I would .like. t.o see in Number 8 the first six.words deleted. I don't care if it is aubseuent to the completion of the projection or not. Number 8 to readq.. "The ;State shall not close or alter any on or off ramp without the written consent of the City.11 Mr. Aiassao Alright. Councilman Nichols: All of the discussion that has come on has been in terms of underpasses. Perhaps the agreement form is more or less a standard form, I don't know this and perhaps I should have no concern at all, bust under statement 6, as I understand the agreement as it.is worded, the State could in fact deviate. at bark Ellen and Hollenbeck and perhaps they could put an overpass in over the Freeway at that time m is that correctl Mr, Aiassa: Yes. The reason why is they don't want to specify until they get into final plans because there might be something that is completely unfeasible for, an underpass and if it stated an.underpass ®26® • ADJ. C, Co 1-2-68 Page Twenty-seven SAN BERNARDINO FREEWAY o Continued that would blind them out completely. Now their intent indicates an underpass. but they have to do a physical and geology study before they know what is existing under that structure, Councilman Nichols.- I understand and I appreciate that, however a change from the Council's understanding of the underpasses and based upon the vote _of the Council's concept of underpasses anda widespread community under- standing of underpasses if it were suddenly to become an overpass it would cause a great deal of consternation and difficulty. Would it be improper in Item 6 to have -it worded - "the grade separation shown.on. Exhibit B will be underpas.se.s unless agreed otherwise by -both .part-ies. In other words if they can show us reasons why they can't basically do it we -will obvi.ously.have to reconsider, but I think we should at least have• the option to go into that matter if it should arise, - Mayor Krieger- If_.yo.u__ar_e ta,13d-ng. __only .about _.L.ark ._Ell.en..and lio_llenbeck,, I think you would be better suited" to restrict your comments to those underpasses, Councilman Nichols- No, I am not. It would apply to .all under- passes. I think our concept has been underpasses in all and if there is a departure of this concept I think it is. one that _ the Council should be involved in. Councilman Gleckman- I agree, Mayor Krieger- Well the underpass at Lark Ellen and Hollenbeck would be new underpasses.. The existing underpasses we have at Citrus,.Azusa and Vincent and then we have an overpass at Barranc a, we have an underpass at Sunset and at Halt.,. Councilman Gleckman; isn't it shown on Exhibit B that those are underpasses? Councilman Nichols: The point is well taken. Mayor Kriegero This. _is what I am talking. about., When we Mf _into. a. disc.us.sion. last time as to what the ate could or could not do, the Exhibit seemed to be more descriptive than the Agreement. Councilman Gleckman; Do you'want to spell out Oranges Pacific, Lark Ellen and Hollenbeck? Mayor Krieger.- If .there als . s ome.._n.anc n_.as_ -to the_ _ 1ut ent of where the underpasses and overpasses would be, I think it would be better Lather than leave the door open for further and future negotiations it would be better to spell out initially so that there is no misconceptions by the State as to what is going to be negotiable and what isn't. Councilman Nichols,- I agree without any further question. Stipulate those underpasses to which you are referring. Councilman Snyder; How about adding a provision that the State in cooperation with the City will provide local adequate detours where necessary and acceptable. The language might be improved but you know my intent, Mayor Krieger; Let's keep the discussion on this one item shall we? Councilman Nichols; That is all I have to say, Councilman Gillum; I have nothing more. ©270 r ADJ. 0. C, 1-2-68 Page Twenty-eight SAN BERNARDINO FREEWAY AGREEMENT - Continued Councilman Snyder-, I would like to see that provision added about detours. C 0uncilman._..Ni_cho.ls00_ . I will...gc along with that. Councilman Gleckman-, I will also, 1] Mayor Krieger. Anything further - a motion would be in order. Mr, Aiassa-, Mr, Mayor ® I would like to make one suggestion. I talked to Mr. Max Gillis and before _we finally ...submit ..this. Agreement per ,_se .to. the Los .Angeles --Division of ..Highways that you authorize the City Manager to meet with the -new engineer of District 7: and myself and Max Gillis and we will go over the outlines and feelings of the Council. and--when-we ..do.. -submit the Agreement per _se .it w1.11 be pretty well unders.Qoh._a.nd .a.c.c.e.pt_e_d._..as fa.r.._.as .the .Local .division is concerned. They.have not.s.een this agreement per se and I think this would be a gc�,ad...approac.h .t.o._clarify ..s.ome:_..of the questions brought up tonight, Counc_i.]eman..Gleckman: I have no objection. Councilman Gillum.- Mr, Aiassa, why is Mr. Gillis becoming involved with our Freeway Agreement with the State? Mr. Aiassa-, Because we asked him to. I got an action from the Council and he has been guiding certain basic questions and it has been very profitable. Councilman Gillum° Is this an expense to us? Mro Aiassa.- Yes.. I got --an, --aut-horization from Council for two or tbre-ehundred, He -i-s -only he bias given us a little morph i tie Con�io�fohaeamountspent and g ine nte:n e Mayor Krieger.- -Tile .City,.Max tiger ° s .recemme.ndation is that the C it Manager be authorized to. meet with the CRtNrict Engineer to disc_us.s_ .tentatively the form of agreement as proposed and then to Mort back to the Council for further action necessary as far as the subma erial for a formal agreement ioti= lay=.Ga oilman- Gl;eo%man9.� conde_d -by 4C•ounc.ilman.e,. --an-d ..carried, that the,City Manager be authorized to meet with the District Engineer and Mr. Gillis to discuss tentatively the form of agreement and report back to Council.,. Councilman Nichols: Mr.., _Aiassa will this come back before us at our next Monday night council me-eting?. Mr, Aiassa-, Ye-s, -subject to appointments ® if I can -arrange them this -week, it -will, Councilman Snyder.- The tentative Agreement does not include the detours. Mayor Krieger.- ..The. _disc.uasi,on ..involves_.. all the ..items :. in the_ pro.pos.al...as wells. as.. tho.s.e _it.ems dis- cussed by Council tonight,. We have to sound..out..the State on those provisions.within the realm of the Agreement, Further Discussion? Any objections? No objections, so ordered. VALENCIA HEIGHTS WATER COMPANY Mayor Krieger-, With the permission of the Council I will add to the agenda tonight the Valencia -Heights ®28- ADJ. Co Co 1-2-68 Page Twenty-nine VALENCIA HEIGHTS WATER COMPANY ® Continued lease which was on last week's agenda and sent back to stuff for further clarification. Any objection to adding? No objection, -- The recommendation of the staff was.that the Council authorize the Mayor and City Clerk to execute the amendment toc 'Sthe lease and the question was raised as to the signatories. The clarification has been. -given by the staff that the signatbries::are_An each respect the same as the signaturas'. qn the : orlg�nmaj!;'lease,oe": A motion would be in order if Council so desires to have this amendment executed. Motion made by Councilman Snyder, seconded by Councilman Gleckman, and carried. COUNCIL. C-OMMITTEE .REPORTS Councilman Gillum: The only thing I have to report is-that.I have been asked to serve on the Committee of the Employees' Association to look,itto the possibility of the employees going into a full straight retirement and withdrawing from Social Security, I was asked by, the President of the Employees' Association and they have set a meeting for Thursday to investigate the different possibilities, Mayor Krieger: Have .,you been asked, tp serve as a councilman or an individual? •C ounc.ilman . G.illum::... As an. individual..., Mayor Krieger: Your only funct-ion.wou-1d be --as an .-individual it would not bind your "posit ion as far as Council is -concerned Councilman Gillum: That was made clear to them when asked to serve, Councilman -Snyder: I.s .the., Sauth.-Hills..-Shopping-...-C,enter Cal or C-m2? Located at Citrus and Garvey. Mr, Fast: 0®2. Co•unc.ilman. Snyder: Is. anauto parts stare. allowed. In A-m22 Mr, Fast: I am not sure, I would have to check; Councilman Snyder: There is an.auto parts store that has come in there and it seems out of place with clothing stores, etc. If it is allowed in Cm2 then I have no complaints, Mr. Aiassa: Yes they have -.filed their application so it will -automatically be checked out by staff. Councilman Gleckman: I would request that staff send a letter to the Snho:ol .Board-re.quezt1.ng ._s_o.me ._criteria that they woulI.-se.e fit for new subdivisions or tracts, in order to prevent transportation problem that has occurred on.-..the....e.as.t...,end....of .tawn _d-ue. t,o.._.3.mproper.._.o.ir_Sul.at-io.n....availabl.e...at this .time. I dan°.t kriaw what, their criteria..would..be. but I think.it would help the.. C aunc il...__as.._.we.11...as- ..the _Planning-C_ommis.slan .t-o...haue... -s.omerthing__.like .this befor-e them so when -a _man comes -in -for ..a...subdivls.i.on..._or. _plot ...plan .of any type that they could list to the developer the needs for such streets in order to avoid what is presently going on in that area, ®2gm t I ADJ. Ca C. 1®2-68 Page .Thirty COUNCIL COMMITTEE REPORTS m Continued Councilman Gleckman: I wanted to ask Mr. Menard where we were with the General Plan as far as the schedule we first received. Aiassaa Fast: They are pretty close on schedule, Chairman Adams report tonight would indicate it is on schedule and will finish out as scheduled, Councilman Gleckmane . I mould. ,like .to discuss. that .some_t-Ame ..in the future that, we hold some ,type of o.int __..meat. w tli .e.itahan the .Chamber. o f Commerce or the powers that ie in order that we may be able to get some type of -report from them as to what they are doing in: -the field of trying ta._enc.o_ur.age .._new .hus_iness and .enterprise into the community and if in anyway we can nuture this subject along. I think it would be a good idea for us to sit down and discuss maybe not toomuch as a statement of policy, although I think in the future we could use a specific statement of policy, but at this time to try and work as a cohesive group in the future development of our community,. Mayor Krieger: Did you mean the Executive Board? Councilman Gleckman: Yes. _Councilman Nichols: I just wanted to commend Councilman Gleckman'for the point he made on this. street problem. In further discussion, we / ave the -same possible problem with some of our, own big heavy pieces of g. -city equipment that might need to- et -into.. some' areas. I think it is a very well made point. Mayor Krieger: Agthi f�Nther? A motion would be in or er a ourn,• Moti n madb Counc��lman jn�je� gecponmded by Councilman Gillum, and carried, Red ing a Wine ATTEST: APPROVED ayor mom_