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11-20-1967 - Regular Meeting - MinutesMINUTES OF THE ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL .CITY OF WEST COVINA, CALIFORNIA NOVEMBER 209 1967. The adjourned regular meeting of the City Council was called to order by Mayor Krieger at 7030 p.m., in the West Covina City Hall. The Pledge of Allegiance was led by Councilman Gledkme,n. ROLL CALL Present, Mayor Krieger, Councilmen Gillump Nichols, Snyder, Gleckman. Also Present, George Aiassa, City Manager H. R. Fast- Public Service.Director (left early) Ray Windsor- Administrative Assistant Lela Preston, City Clerk SISTER CITY FOUNDATION DELAGATES Mayor Krieger-, A motion would be in order to adjourn to an Executive Session of the Council for the purpose of discussing appoint- ments to the Sister, City Foundation. So moved by Councilman Gillum, seconded by Councilman Gleckman, and carried. • (COUNCIL ADJOURNED TO EXECUTIVE SESSION AT 7033p.m. RECONVENED AT 7058 P.M. in the Council Chambers.) Motion by Councilman Gleckman, seconded by Councilman Gillum, that the City Council appoint the following two persons as Sister City Founda® tion delegates for the term of one year* Madeline Janacek and Michael Lestick. Motion carried on roll call vote as follows* AYES* Councilmen Gillum, Nichols, Gleckman, Snyder, Mayor Krieger NOES* None ABSENT* None COUNCIL COMMITTEE REPORTS Councilman Gleckman.- will be ready for your approval I would report to the Council that the final report of the Citizens Blue Ribbon Committee on the Huntington Beach Freeway probably at the next meeting. Mayor Krieger-, A short report on the trip of the City Manager and myself, last Wednesday to Sacramento. We were part of the delegation to the monthly meeting of the Highway Commission of the State of California, subject matter m Grand Avenue, financing of rightmof®way •acquisition. The delegation consisted of the Mayor of the City of ' Covina 4 Mr. Yeager- the Mayor of the City of Glendora m Mr. Finkbinero the Mayor of San Dimas m Mr,, Plummer; the Mayor of the City of Walnut Mr. Hale,, Executive Vice -President of the Development Company for Diamond Bar ® Mr. P. Grow- General Manager for Vennell®$auley- Mr. Laydon- the County Road Commissioner ® Mr. Morhar 9 Vice®President of the Administrative Division of Cal -Poly ® Mro Maurer- a member of the Board of Trustees of Mount San Antonio College - Mr. Hutchinson. We made the presentation last Wednesday morning to the seven members of the Highway Commission together with the presentation of the exhibits having to do with the Grand Avenue m 1 0 ADJ. C.C. 11-20-67 Page Two COUNCIL COMMITTEE REPORTS m Continued interchange, and resolutions from all the bodies stated, together with the resolutions from the Board of Supervisor K The City o� Azusa and the City of Industry. I thought our reception was very warm before the Highway Commission. We were joined by the three Assemblymen from this district m Mr. Johnson, Mr. Schabarum and Mr. Campbell. Letters were introduced from Senator Richardson and Senator Whitmore, who were on the floor of the Senate discussing a bill and could not get in to the hearing of the Commission. After hearing our presentation the Commission directed Mr.,ft�-W`IrA , the State Highway- Engineer to - prepare a staff study and report back to the Commission for their December meeting concerning the policy issue involved in the State°s acquisition of the right-of-way costs which would be approximately 0530a_000 for the Grand Avenue interchange, Mr. Aiassas as a delegate is there anything you wish to add? Mr. Aiassas City Managero, No. BUSINESS LICENSE ORDINANCE REVISION HEARING Mayor Krieger: There has been submitted to the Council from the City Attorney and the City Manager, an Ordinance proposed for adoption. This Ordinance was introduced by the Council last Monday night for purposes of procedure. The Council by majority vote has indicated there be a Public Hearing on this particular Ordinance prior to adoption. • This is the time and place set for that hearings Mrs. Preston ® do you have the affidavit of publication? Mrs. Preston, City Clerk: Yes sir, Motion by Councilman Gleckman, seconded by Councilman Gillum, and carried, that Council receive and file, THIS IS THE TIME AND PLACE FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING, THE PROCEDURE. MAYOR KRIEGER EXPLAINED Charlie Kutz I represent the Covina Valley Board of 1234 So. Butterfield Realtors of which there are some 99 West Covina member officers and approximately members, In this matter of licensing the Board has nominated a Committee to study the licensing structure, not only in the City of West Covina, but in other cities as weTT , The Bard a_ nd .myself found :gin going through your fee schedule as you have it s`.� u here, yoallocated the real estate officers to the category of Sp which isuSpecial Businesses, it is in with Finance Companies, Savings & Loan, Dance Permits, Junk Dealers, Now why it was put in there is beyond me when you have a perfectly logical category Code P - Attorneys, Advertising Counsel, Civil Engineers, Architects, etc, It would be our first contention that we • have been included in the wrong category and should be in category P Professionals and Service, and not Sg because a Real Estate Broker is a professional service man. As to the existing proposal, in my estimation it is definitely out of line. Under your proposal it calls for $50. for one salesman, and $75. for more than one salesman. That means you could have a 20 man office and pay the same amount as though You had 2. I think this demands revision. 2 ADJ. C. C. 11-20m67 Page Three BUSINESS LICENSE ORDINANCE REVISION m Continued Going further, I think a broker should pay a business license in the City in which he has an office or a branch office, definitely, but we seem to be fair game for anything and everything that comes along in every City. Now my office is in this City, it used to be in Covina, and I have no objection to carrying my fair load of the business license tax but you go to a City like Glendora you put a sign on the property and you are automatically eligible for a business license. You can take a doctor, accountant, bond broker m etc., he can do business with anyone in any City and is not expected to buy a license in that City simply because they came to his office to do business. The insurance salesman can circulate in any given area and do business, -as long as he does not put up a sign. This seems to be the point of difference. I for ones would be in favor of an Ordinance in all the cities that prohibits all signs, but that is another proposition. But why should a salesman o for instance, Coldwe?1 Banker has never paid a license in the City of West Covina according to the City Clerk's office. If this is true and I don't believe they should m because why should they, in view of the fact they have no office here? Simply because they put a sign on a piece of property? Another thought crossed our minds in discussion this afternoon - like Pacific Outdoor Advertising, They I know pay a City license and I realize they also pay a fee each time they put a sign up, but the fact they are advertising United Air Lines or TWA or Gilbey°s Gin ® it is those people getting the benefit of the advertising, so why should we -Just because we put up a sign in a given City„ I don't quite follow the thinking. • Q We checked cut the surrounding cities and taking a broker's office with an average of 3 salesmen, here are the figures we came up with- Baldwin Park m $64.9 Glendora - breakdown only on a business license, no additional for a salesman; Covina with 3 ® $30. Alhambra is on gross receipts starting at $6.009 Arcadia m 3 salesmen #40•9 (In West Covina the proposed is $75.) Tem�25. le City m $35; LaPuente m $509 Monterey Park m $309 Azusa, I believe is 9 they vary up and down the line and there is even one in Upland for $100. We are not adverse to carrying our fair share of the load where we are getting services but I believe the licensing fee should be commensurate with the services rendered. Maybe I am wrong. I have always understood the licensing fee was for the control aspect, or is it as the City of Whittier states ® a money making purpose? This they state in their code. I have no further remarks. We are willing to go along with, any reasonable fee but we would like to see, if possible,, the Cities of the general valley, get together. We would rather pay one flat fee than be nailed with another license each time we step next door. Thank you. Michael Lestick It sounds like I will be singing the 1234 Larkwood same song. I am objecting, first of all, West Covina as a manager of my office and also recognizing the California Loan and •Finance Association that has 12 member offices in the City of West Covina. We are also being brought under category S and in checking with the City of Los Angeles Chamber of Commerce, they have statistics behind them to show that usually in similar finance offices are categorized as a retail outlet and the average fees paid throughout the State of California per office is #45 to 050 per year. I have figures in our own company for examples Pomona m $439 City of San Gabriel © 036 with 7 employees, in West Covina this year it was $42. I can understand and have no objection to there being a raise in the business license fee, however, I believe the average of the 12 offices in West Covina is about $47. per year, an increase o3m ADJ. Co Co 11-20-67 Page Pour BUSINESS LICENSE ORDINANCE REVISION - Continued in fees of over 100% which is a little outrageous. I would like any consideration taken that you may put towards this matter and I hope we can be set up to be put in a retail field instead of the Special category. Homer Petersen I am president of the Building Industry 19016 East Valley Blvd. Association of the San Gabriel Valley Rosemead representing the building industry association of the City of Covina, This Business License tax fee has been a bone of contention with us contractors for quite sometime and especially your increasing the license tax from $48 to $100 m you are doubling it up. It seems -like we are being picked on a little bit. As you know we have been in hard times of late and might be in the same status next year, We would like to suggest something to you as far as ._the collection of taxes, that is to collect through a permit fee at the time the permit- is taken out on -.the job, If it is 010,000 present the tax accordingly which would take care of the license tax and take care of everything from the subcontractor on through the building contractor,, I worked with the City of El Monte last year for a year, and finally got this over as far as the contractors are concerned,, I realize that every profession has differ- ent statistics on this but we, as contractors, would like to see something definitely tied to the job when the permit is taken out and if the license tax is paid at that time I know it will save you a lot of policing. If this license tax goes up I know what your policing effect is • going to be because there is going to be a lot of subcontractors that Will try and avoid this if they can possibly do so, as you know. We would like to give our services to you we would like to work with you. We realize you need taxes to operate your town and I think there is a fair way of collecting them. We are very receptive on the part of the contractors to work with you and sit down with you and try and work out a method that will assure you of collecting this money without any policing effect. Thank you, Robert Brink I appeared before you several weeks ago when General Telephone Company we discussed this matter before and it was Head Office only tonight that I have had a chance to 2020 Santa Monica Blvd, see the Ordinance as you have drafted it Santa Monica and I see that you have excluded that section that referred to General Telephone Company and I raise the question if I may at this point, as to what procedure you intend to apply since we want to pay a rea,onably fair share of the taxes you are trying to raise in this matter. I talked to Mr. Misamore, our District Manager and now to Mr, Aiassa and I understand there is some consideration to using the truck situation as a way to cover us. If that should be true, under section 21 where you talk about retail trucks, my only suggestion would be if you were to add the word m "retail delivery and/or service trucks". This would them I feel, and in ennsultation with our attorneys today, that this would bring us both constitutionally and otherwise under this, • Thank you, George Zartmang President You know the Chamber of Commerce has Chamber of Commerce worked closely with you in this regard, West Covina I think it will take about five minutes to say what we have to sum up here today. You also know as President of the Chamber I am not the expert in these matters, we delegate those, In this case this was under a Committee headed by Phil Wax and I would relinquish my position to him to give you some fact, and figures that we have obtained since our 4 ADJ. 0. Co 11-20-67 Page Five BUSINESS LICENSE ORDINANCE REVISION ® Continued last meeting with you. Phil Wax I would just like to state that we have 1014 W. Garvey worked on this and at no time have we West Covina come up with our own recommendations in respect to dollars and cents ® it strictly was a situation of investigat- ing and trying to break up any inequities that might exist in the present licenses plus to develop a method that we could all live with and based on this we never were able to determine how much money the City was looking for and in what categories they expected to raise the fees or op the fees, therefore we established a Committee and Bernie Bdgman created a spread sheet. On this spread sheet are the figures of the existing 1967 license money and the categories on record at City Hall against the formula that the City is proposing for 1968 and these are exact figures with the exception of Category S, which are all the special areas that are created m some 30 areas. We have no figures on this to compare with at this time, I would like to bring Mr. Bre.gman up to show you the comparison in the figures in the way of dollars and cents, also percentagewise and how much money the City is talking about in the way of money. Bernie Bre_gman My function was to gather information and 1500 W. Service Avenue analyze it and deliver it. I have taken West Covina from information submitted by. the City staff basic information which relates to • the projection for 1968 collections. I have taken by group and analyzed the amount of additional funds that will be forthcoming to the City. The average increase in each category by dollars and the percentage increase. As it stands now the 1967 business licenses should yield #849000 and under the projected schedule it should go up to $1049000 for a net increase of 4209000. In category A the income will increase from $9775 to $119308 which would represent an increase of $1533. and on the average that would represent a license fee increase of $7.67 or 6.04%. In the Category R9 retailers, -the income will increase from $239700 to $30,267, a net increase of $6500. with an average increase of $16.45 and a 28.6-8% increase. Category M manufacturing9 increase in total from $4782 to $5510, an increase of $728. and an average increase of $19.16 and 15%. Category P o professional an increase from $10,668 to $14,309, representing as increase of $3641. or an average increase of $13.54 and a percentage increase of 34.14%. Category C - contractors, increase from $20,826 to $26,125. An increase of $5,299 which is an average increase of $8,,75 and a percentage increase of 25.1j. The special categories, as previously mentioned, consists of all the peculiar businesses and one of a kind businessess in the City and no analysis was made on that. Mayor Kriegers Mr. B0_gman © in category C you said $8.75 m a 25% increase? Mr. B-gmans Yes, on the average. The number of • contractors in.1967 was stated at 605 with a yield of $20,826. So that the average is 034.43. In 1968 the projection is for the same number of contracting licenses yielding $26,125 or $43.18. The question may come up as to -why it is less than $50. to $100. in the schedule, and one of the reasons is because there is a proration during the year and it is my understanding that in this category there are a number of prorating licenses on a yearly basis. So that the average is increased from $34.43 to $43.18. In total there were projected to be 1874, licenses with an average increase under the projected new schedule of $10.64, and 5 ADJ. C.O. 11-20-67 Page Six BUSINESS -LICENSE ORDINANCE REVISION ® Continued an average of 23,67%, I merely want to point out at this time the percentage increases on the averages range from 6% in the case of Category A to a high of 34% in Category P. This is without going into detailed analysis of the Special Categories, Thank you. (Mr. B_regman presented a copy of the Spread Sheet to the City Council) Mr, Zartmans May I Just sum up what you heard from the Chamber of Commerce? I think we have said just about all we can say as a Chamber. I don't consider myself.an expert in accounting methods, nor an expert in determining the fees. I don't think anyone in our Chamber has proven to be an expert either All we know is that them is a right or wrong way to do this. In this particular type of a business license tax we know it is difficult for you to set up there and make the tax equitable for all. We found that out in our deliberations with our own members and also in the written information we got from the membership at large. There were many different ideas and many different ways of doing it. So all we can say is we polled our members to come up with their leads to help your deliberations here. It just seems to me that when you look at a spread of 6% to 38% that there should be some equalization but how it is done I am not sure, I don't have the answer but I am sure you fellows will do your best to make it equal for the businessmen and all of us in the City. Thank you. I would like to say that there were some written letters received by the Chamber and perhaps those in attendance may not have felt we covered their letters, if so I would urge they make their comments. • Louis Brutocao First of all let me say I am not 3325 No. Aldenville opposing what the Chamber has stated Covina here tonight. I think I want more or that might less to bring out some information g possibly be of value to the City; I wrote a letter to the Chamber which I will reads "I am writing you in answer to your request for a letter to be aent to the City Council relative to the Business .License fee. We realize the extent of work the Chamber of Commerce has performed relative to the two methods of license fees but we feel that we wish to go on record with our experience with both methods. First, Anaheim Bowl -has been paying on the gross formula for the last 9 years and it has proved not onlyto becfair sand equitable, but of less cost than our Covina Bowl has been paying on the flat rate method. Naturally the very many varied businesses that the City of West Covina services, this would not be true in all cases. The most important fact remains that if the business community would be enhanced by a main thoroughfare such as has been proposed for the last 2 years - Walnut Creek Parkway, and now the core area principle, the widening and improvement of Azusa Avenue, which has shown a wide acceptance by the businessmen of West Covina, then an increase in business licenses no matter what form is used should be acceptable to the commercial community of West Covina. We feel sure that the additional income that the City of Anaheim has enjoyed has certainly helped to broaden the commercial base,, as well as encourage many clean industrial plants to locate there. No progressive businessman •will deny that a City, as well as commercial enterprise, has need for additional money to promote a better business environment. All of us are opposed to high taxes if they are to be wasted but if these higher taxes are used to prime the pump for a better commercial base thew by all means they are Justified and every commercial establishment will benefit. Signed: Brutocao Development Company." I read this letter because it is probably the shortest way to get a message across to the Council and the City as a whole. I used the example of Anaheim Bowl because we have had experience in them for a number of years. The gross receipts method in 6 n U ADJ. Co C, 11-20-67 Page Seven, BUSS LICENSE ORDINANCE REVISION o Continued Anaheim this past year produced a little less than #1,000 in taxes, In Covina the flat rate proved in excess of $1,000. Using the formula that you have, on the two bowling centers in West Covina as an example, they probably produced $100 or less on your last year's formula. The bowling business in the last 3 or 4 years has not been a lucrative business, it has been a very difficult business, but at the same time the few extra dollars in license fees that would damage a business ® I don't buy. I think this is shortsighted on the part of the business people in the community. I think that if they would put a little extra money in promoting the City they would find the return would be much greater. I know the $1,000 we pay to Anaheim is nothing to their total budget but if every business is based on that same method, I think that you will find that there is going to be a lot more benefits for the business community. I think our Chamber of Commerce has fallen down itself on the Job a little bit, because it needs funds and being on the Membership Drive for at least 3 years, I know we are not going to get it from there, so I know we need some additional help from the City,- Now I can't see how the Chamber can come before you people and object to raising the License Fees that are minute, and then have to come back next year and ask for a helping hand to run the Chamber. I think this is where we are making our mistake and I can't help but take a negative view of their viewpoint. I might add I hope to be a member of the Chamber tomorrow. Thank you, James Charter Mr, Brutocao brought up a point and I 433 So. Meadow Road would like to say that I worked out a West Covina formula on percentage for the Eastland Shopping Center in each store. One thing that was interesting, where ever we had strictly food or food partly served, we found the percentage of increase on gross sales was much less than a store that only had merchandise for sale, This could very well be the difference in Mr. Brutocao's case where the bowling alleys have restaurants. One of our strictly food places would be actually reduced pla rad on a percentage of gross sales, but one of our larger stores would have actually doubled their license fee. I just wanted to brim this: point out. I feel the Chamber has worked with the City and the staff, and we have tried to be fair all around, but I think it is one point you should examine. Thank you. THERE BEING NO FURTHER PUBLIC TESTIMONY9 MAYOR KRIEGER CALLED FOR A MOTION CLOSING THE PUBLIC PORTION OF THE HEARING, Motion by Councilman Gillum, seconded by Councilman Gleckman, and carried, that there being no further public testimony on the Business License Ordinance that the public portion of the hearing be closed, COUNCIL DISCUSSION Councilman Snyder-, contractors on a fee basis Mr. Petersen. - I have a question of the contractor from El Monte - Mr, Petersen, In your experience, how many cities handle instead of a yearly license basis? will be the only City as of this Councilman Snyder. - Mr, Petersen. - Councilman Snyder-, Our first City was the City of El Monte, We have been working on this program for the last 13 years, The City of E1 Monte time starting the first of the year, Mr. Petersen are you a contractor? I am a subcontractor. If a general contractor from outside the City comes to West Covina and is. required to get a business license for d7- 0 • ADJ. 0. 0. 11-20-67 Page Eight BUSINESS LICENSE ORDINANCE REVISION onto the year, does this apply to all the subcontractors also? Mr. Petersen-, In West Covina each one has to have the permit, Councilman Snyder: And in the City of El Monte you do this on a job permit basis ® or you have a choice? Mr. Petersen: No there is no choice. Starting the first of the year their building contractors will pay a permit fee per Job. If the contractor has a project going up there will be a $78.00 building permit fee and a $78.00 license tax fee, which will take care of all the subcontractors on that particular job. Councilman Snyder: the City, he has to include and the cost of everyone of the cost of his bide Mr. Petersen: An outside contractor coming to West Covina and bidding on a house to be built and he has no other job to do in in his bid the cost of his business license the subcontractors, which in effect adds to out on your proposed unit, even $50. initially and then 30 times cost. Councilman Snyder,-. Yes, it would add to the total cost. We have actually 30 pieces of construction on a job and if we started on a semiannual basis, you would have $25. or approximately 4700 to add to the How many cities are under this basis? Mr. Petersen: Just about all the cities in the San Gabriel Valley charge a fee and the contractors do work in about all the cities. It isn't like the olden days when most of the areas were County areas. This is the purpose for tie-ins with the permit fee. If it could be tied in to the individual job and cover all the sub- contractors on that particular jib. Councilman Gillum-, To pursue what Dr. Snyder is saying, what concerns me mainly with what Mr. Petersen is proposing, it appears to me that we pass this cost of a license right on to the person Purchasing the home. The point I am trying to make is that a business license in my estimation is a license which I think our Ordinance states is to control and raise revenue, or regulate and control businessness and we seem to have a tendency to pass everything down the line. My feeling on a business license is that it is charged to the businessman for the services rendered by the City and what is being proposed or suggested appears to be a cost that would be figured on the job and passed right on to the homeowner and I don't think I can go along with that. Councilman Snyder: That is my reasoning on this. It seems to me this is one of the unfair portions of the business license. A plumber may only come in to this City to do a job, say one job in two years, and he is required to get a business license to do that one job, and he is not in business to lose money so he has to pass the cost on to the person he is working for. It becomes not only a burden on the contractor but on the customer and there would be less people acting to avoid the license fee and more income to the City if it were done on a job basis. If the plumber came to do one job and that was the only job he did in the year and -the cost was $15.00 then the cost he would pass on to that customer would be less. I don°t think by making him pay the full amount that you are going to limit the customers to those contractors whose basis of operation is within our City. That is not the purpose of the ADJ. C. C. 11-20-67 Page Nine BUSINESS LICENSE ORDINANCE REVISION m Continued business license. I think we hamper business and especially in the building trades make it more expensive on the contractor. Some cities do it but that does not make it fair, • Councilman Gillum. Fair to whom? Councilman Snyder: Both - to the customers and the con- tractors, v Councilman Gillum-, For instance, we have a local plumber on Garvey Avenue and he comes in and takes out his normal business license to conduct business in the City, or say a contractor does. He has a job and goes out to install something on a major construction job and I don't know how to define it but maybe that is where the difference lies, and yet I think this was one of the points in discussion with the Chamber Committee that concerned them m in someway to provide a form of protection for the people who do have a business in this community and are subject sometimes to so-called "fly by nighty people who come in, do a job and disappear, This was one point the Chamber Committee brought out that we should give some consideration in finding a way to get the people that come in and take money from our City to make them pay their equal share for the privilege of doing business in the City, Councilman Snyder-, I agree with you that our first concern is for our own businessmen in the City, the business is that they work througho uththeery Valley andnature®I think oitrhasi ng never been shown that protective care has been beneficial in the long run and I think if we take the lead on this as El Monte has done that in the long run it will be beneficial, E1 Monte contractors may be coming in to do a job on a permit basis, our contractors will be going into El Monte to do it on a permit basis, and if we are going to throw up such a license that would permit them from coming the only way they can.pass that cost on is by passing it on to the customer. You have to think of the customer too, Councilman Gillum - Taking it a little further then, what about doctors, what about the Realty Board, what about the attorney? I am not saying that our plan is perfect, far from it, but I think if we give the contractors consideration then we should give the realtors, doctors, etc,, and everybody else that comes through the City and I.think if we do this then we destroy what we started out to doe Mayor Krieger-, Well if it is inconsistent in approaching this thinking of looking at it as what it y is - a business license, then perhaps we should accept this gentleman s invitation and look at it on the fee and permit schedule and perhaps if we revise those in a manner acceptable to the Council, we can then make some adjustments in our business license at that time, Councilman Gillum, - Mayor Kriegero adopt some other type of system, the business'licenses and see if t Counilman Nichols. would have to be applied to the I think he brought up a good point. I think the question is whether we want to look at our fee and permit schedule and if in doing so we find we want to then it would be timely to look back at we want to make an adjustment. I think the points that have are valid ones, although I am to think the point Dr, Snyder delivery trucks as well, For been raised inclined has made example, ADJ. C. 0. 11-20-67" Page Ten BUSINESS LIOENSE ORDINANCE REVISION - Continue;Li someone buying furniture in El Mante and having it delivered in West Covina, or equally to the realtor who has an office in. Glendora and occasionally gets a client in the City of West Covina. Yet the great problem is to try and remove the inequities I 't-hink, cannot be • done. I would like! to summarize very briefly my own viewpoint on this in order for the Council to be aware of where I will lead with regard to the question at the end of the discussion. When this matter first came up many monthe ago and the City Manager approached the Council seeking authorization to investigate the revisions of the Ordinance I inquired at that time If the primary function of the Ordinance was to create a greater equity or to create more revenue. I believe the response was to place the primary thrust in the area of creating greater equity and I responded at that time that if it was to create more revenue and if I felt it was in my judgment a misuse of this type of Ordinance I would oppose It. I have followed it along the way and have concluded to my own satisfaction that the main thrust has been to increase the revenue. I voted in favor of the suggestion as part of the general study to hire a business license inspector and I believe under the existing business license structure that if that inspector does his job that we will see a significant Increase in business license revenues in the City. I would prefer to leave it at that and I would prefer to leave the business license structure in the City of West Covina at a lower rather than a higher level, and therefore in, good conscience I cannot support the proposed Ordinance at all because of the basic philosophical disagreement with the conclusions. Councilman Gleckman-, 1'. have some questions, but first I would like to respond to Councilman Nichols remarksg only from the standpoint I sat in at the budget sessions as a councilman, which was depleted by the previous Council, and the question was asked where are we going to get the money we need? And, if it wouldn't have been for the cigarette tax money this Council, right now,, wo-uld not only be 'talking about raising revenue of the business people but every citizen in the City would be getting a tax increase because of the lack of revenue. So any councilman that sits up here and says this City does not need revenue or this isn't a method -to raise revenue that he would agree with, I sure j would appreciate him coming up with some other Idea in order to proceed in the manner in which we should proceeed as a growing community and I Can't hang my hat on the idea of raising the business license fees for any other reason other than to raise revenue and all we are talking about now, as far as I am concerned, is the methodology which would be fair and equitable to the best of our ability as a Council, in order to raise this revenue - but not on the basis that this City doesn't need revenue and I would object to 'taking It from the businessman. as well as, from 'the public. I don't agree with that. After all, all the services that we render in this community se.rve not only the citizens and business people of our community but quite a bit of the revenue that comes into the City is to provide that service and it comes in through the retail people from people outside this community. So every way in which this community can progress, and without revenue it will not progress, so in anyway that it would be fair and equitable I am for that, I cant see a backward buggy, City just because of the Idea of saying we don't want to raise your taxes. Councilman Nichols-, Mr. Mayor - Councilman Gleckman has done a gross disservice, by putting -vords in my mouth. 1 didn't say that I 'would not be in favor of raising revenue for the City, I said that If the major thrust of this particular Ordinanoe was that of a revenue raising 'device that I would oppose It, because I don't feel that is the fundamental purpose of the business license ordinance and I believe,the minutes will reflect that as far as my previous stated attitude. !ENU#M ADJ. C. C. 11-20-67 Page Eleven BUSINESS LICENSE ORDINANCE REVISION - Continued When this Council faced the budget this last spring we were indeed in desperate straits and I was in favor at that time, and the Council minutes will reflect it, to raise whatever taxes were necessary to operate this City in a proper manner, whether •it was to build a swimming pool or provide other services. Subsequent to that time the State legislature has raised the sales tax which affects every person in this room and every citizen in West Covina. They also raised the cigarette tax, the State income tax ® a whole gamut of taxes and I believe the people have had enough taxes lately. Our budget is balanced in this City and we are meeting all of our obligations that we have. Now if we come back next year and say we need more money to operate the City and part of it has to come from these gentlemen, if it is necessary I will vote to raise them to $200 but I am not -in favor of this license at this time as a fund money raising device. Now that is my position. Councilman Gleckmano The only thing I can say in response to the response to my remarks is that first of all that maybe that is one of the problems with all of the cities in the State of California. I think had Councilman Nichols been able to attend the meeting of the League of California Cities in San Francisco, that he would have found that is one of the problems with all the cities in California m the idea of budgeting from year to year and spending every dime from year to year and coming up every year at the same budget session with the idea of a shortage of revenues. Now again if the methodology we are talk- ing about will raise additional revenue in this community I don't care if it is $109000 - 4100,000 or.$200,000, but at the same time let's not kid ourselves. We are not going to do something like this with the kc9ndyR go hee of rt a ding .era se--raAa n-a es RWHa ;i&elo ftre discuss redoing and revamping licensing and sitting up here as a City Councilman and say this is not the idea - - I don't think you can hoodwink them. We are here to discuss raising the business license fees to raise revenue for this community and I don't want anybody sitting out in that audience or anybody reading these minutes to think we are idiots enough to sit up here and try and fool the people with the idea that we are considering this just to be fair and equitable. Councilman Snyder. I would like to respond to one thing he said. How many budget sessions have you sat through Councilman Gleckman? Councilman Gleckmano The only one you fellows came up short. Councilman Snyder: I think it was two. I take exception, not personally, but to the fact that this year's budget problems were caused by the previ us Council. ® which y u sit on, d I think the problem was really cause because of the grow h o the C��y. Councilman Gleckmano Not really, I was new at the first budget session and had to rely on some of the veterans. -I do have a question of Mr. Bre.gman. I would like to ask him regarding the percentages based on this.. Is it the Chamber's opinion that the raising of all the percentages is inequitable because they are not equal? I am not sure I got that point, and if it is then I would have some other questions. Mr. Bregman: Nog the Chamber is not taking a position on the percentage inequities, it is just information that is being submitted to the Council. ADJ. C. C. 11-20-67 Page Twelve BUSINESS LICENSE ORDINANCE REVISION - On-ntinaed Councilman Gleckman.- Thank you. I think It is a job well done, but In, coming to any conclusions it is very decei'ving bec-ause we are talking whether the one being raised the most Was In the •past, or because we are picking on theiY now --that the Percentage is going up, depending on what we feel as a Council is fair and equitable to charge people to what we haven't charged in the past, so that is why I can't go along with the percentage, I am not 'talking about the accuracy but the intent. Some of people tonight expressed, I believe, a desire for grossthe here receipts. Mr. Brutocoahave is one and the fee for contractors per job would be very close to gross receipts. I don't know, maybe that would be the best method and would probably raise the most money,;,, But-, , - like Councilman Nichols, I am not here to raise the most money but to try and get a fair and equitable Solution to the problem,` ..'MrA Mayor, I think the realtors have a very good point -in the example of I-oldwell Banker, not paying for a license in this City. I think they do the majority of the business in the business community in this area dnd I am a little bit surprised that we don't get some return on their doing this business. Councilman Snyder.- Don't they have to pay a sign permit? Mr. Aiassa, City Manager: No, • Mayor Krieger-, We had some discussion a couple of years ago with the City Attorney as I remember. Councilman Gleckman.- I think the problem here is in the areas in which we have been questioned, such as the dollar amounts. I would like to hear from the staff as to where they came up with, these figu7res, because we come up with figures now from the people Protesting these as different. We must have had some examples Or Some idea tro Come up with these fees that would either offset what was said here tonight or else we picked these figures out of the air. Mayor Kriegero, Mr. Aiassa would you comment. please? Mr. Aiassa, City Manager.- First - one statement was made that . this proposal did come from the City Man ager'cs Office. It did not come from the City Manager's office but from the City Clerk, I have a file and it indicates that the Council, did direct -1VVhe City Manager to survey 'this with regard to the charging Of our license fees. The fees actually recommended and suggested are a total from about thirty-five cities surveyed and these .are comparable in size to the City of West 00"irina. When we went into the fees and charges we found that each City had a certain variable degree. We also took the o -unity to -'�o Anaheim and we found some variations the, ' We also djpport re id one other t-41ong" which the Committee reviewed - he actual fee flat rates were modified and changed in certain categories after their field work was completed, and I think, generally speaking, 40 this is kind of a modified ordinance, and put together with as much input as possible. Mayor Krieger3 Does that answer Your questions, Mr. Gleckman? Councilman Gleckman.- Nog I would like some specific answers. How do we come up with the 0100 figure for contractors 2 - 12 - ADS'. C. C. 11-20-67 BUSINESS LICENSE ORDINANCE REVISION - Continued Mr. Aiassa, City Manager.- 0 Councilman Gleckmans and realtors8 Mr. Aiassa, City Managero, Councilman Gleckmano Mai. Aiassa, City Managers Page Thirteens Actually we used basic cities that were in our category in size and most of them hit within the $100. Can you give me some examples as to the specific cities and would this same thing apply to Finance Companies I can't answer without looking at the work material. In other words you don't have any specific cities in mind. No ® we just took the synopsis of the 35 cities we had sur- veyed. Councilman Gleckmans I have no further questions. MAYOR KRIEGER CALLED FOR A RECESS AT 9 P.M. COUNCIL RECONVENED AT 9:15 P. M. Councilman Gillum. I would like to say, as I have stated to the Chamber of Commerce, I am not trying to kid them - we were IM trying to raise revenues, we were trying to equailize the fees. There • are areas I feel we have to look at but I can justify the whole program by saying that the cost of doing business in this City and the things the City participates in, has gone up just as in retail and wholesale businessnes. I don't believe the overall Ordinance in general is that far out of line. I can assure my fellow councilmen and the people here this evening that this wasn't something that came off the top of our head. Dr. Snyder and I went to the Chamber meeting and heard the objections to the gross receipts and listened to the people. I think the Chamber of Commerce has performed a great service in many of these areas in bringing it down to percentages, but as I stated 'to them I think the City is justified because the cost of doing business has gone up. We have provided more services, gladly, but the cost of our employment has gone up, the cost of equipment has gone up, the cost to do the services has gone up, and I think it is their equal share of these increases. The average comes out to 23% but in some cases it seems to be quite large but as Mr. Gleckman stated,.it is possible that some of them were quite low compared to the Cities we used as a guide. The staff has worked on this and we have taken trips to different cities to talk to -the people in the areas. As far as Anaheim is oon.ce.rned, when they told me they had this gross receipts tax in effect for 16 years and they still have a problem area and they feel like they are discriminating against certain businesses - well I couldn't buy that at all. Possibly there are areas in here not correct, but I think the overall program is sound. I don't like to raise taxes anymore than anyone else does, but I think it is a necessary evil if we are going to provide the services and continue to provide them. • There are many things we would like to do for the business community and it is just a fact that there is just so many dollars to do it with. What we are going to raise here tonight is not really going to make that much difference but I do believe it will help pay for the services and additional expenses that the City has incurred in the last few years. I do agree there were some points brought out with regard to the contractors and realtors that we should look into. But to say this program was not to raise revenue when we started out 13 ADJ. C. C. 11-20-67 Page Fourteen BUSINESS LICENSE ORDINANCE REVISION - Continued but to make it equal and we are trying to make it equal. Mayor Krieger-, I notice that Mr. Kutz has leftv unfortunately,, He did raise a •question which I found rather interesting, perhaps Dr. Snyder or Mr. Gillum or the staff can answer. Why was the real estate office which does seem to be more in the service category, placed in the particular category it was - Category S? Mr, Aiassa, City Managers was discussed with the Committee. I think our survey with the other cities indicated they were listed under that category. I think this Mayor Krieger-, It seems to me it is not realistic in terms of dealing with the variables and the sizes of real estate offices we have in this community to draw the line on the one salesman office and say regardless of what type of office it is it has this 475. fee. When in fact we have a Category P of professions and services which seems to take cognizance of that differential as far as size of office and number of people working in the office. Councilman Gleckman: In a real estate office what does the term salesman mean? If you put that cliss cation bac attaneys, accountants, etc., and the wet minim s 4146, a year wLown Ind u es e vwner, principal or manager principal, plus $25. for each additional principal C6 professional who is not an employee, Is that salesman an employee or is he a professional - 'because he is licensed by the State and could go to work for another realtor once he has a license and he is not just somebody hired off the street as an employee. Which category would he be put into If you shifted categories and then you .would be back to 475. per office minimum but yuu might get up to 0300 for an office. Mayor Krieger-, I wasn't really looking at the dollars and cents, As far aS the answer to the question - when he hangs his license up he has to indicate whether he is acting in a salesman capacity under the brokers license in that office or he is operating under his own broker's license,, If he operates under his own broker's license in that office then we get back to the same discussion we had sometime ago - and then he becomes a principal and he is not an employee on any sales he negotiates. He is using his broker's number on it so he becomes a principal. I think it Is fairly distinguishable in an office whether a grou�, of men are associated as brokers or are working for a broker in that o'fice. I think it can easily be assessed 'based on that relationship. 0ouncilmam, Gieckman-, I would have no objection to moving the real estate office into Category P. Mayor Krieger-, I think it was very kind of the Covina Board of Realtors to call to our attention a new categorization of this which will probably result in more revenue to the City Cf West Covina, • Councilman Snyder-, I haven't had a chance to make my comments,, My understanding of our goals in studying the business license was not only to make it more equitable but to bring it into line with what other cities are doing. It has been recognized by the City Clerk's office of this City for a long time that we were out of line with other cities. Maybe in some respects we are over and in some respects under, but there has been no doubt that we have been out of line for a long time,, If in addition this did bring additional revenue I wouldn't deny that the purpose of a business license tax is for the purpose of revenue and - 14 - ADJ. C. 0,, 11-20-67 Page Fifteen BUSINESS LICENSE ORDINANCE REVISION - Continued although this is a tax on the business community it is necessarily passed along to the consumer and the Chamber of Commerce certainly benefits in their subsidjl.zation by the City at budget time in how much money we can consider in giving them for their budget so this isn't all one way,, Obviously those businessmen who are not members of the Chamber of Commerce - well they do benefit secondly by the publicity the Chamber of Commerce accomplishes. A business license is not like a property tax, it cannot be adjusted from year to year,, The property tax is set after our budget is set to meet the cost and we obviously cannot do this under the present business license formula that is being proposed. This is one reason I advocated the gross receipts tax among others. The gross receipts tax is more of a measure of activity and therefore would tend to go up and down with activity, also I would like to state that more than 50% of the cities in ..California are now on gross receipts and they have recently gone to gross receipts because enlightened Finance Officers and City Management redlize that this is the beat method of measuring activity. Again it also allows for adjustments up and down more easily and allows for more equitable spread. However, we weren't.able to sell that to not only the people of West Covina but our own City Council, so we have to forget gross receipts for now, but I am convinced this City will eventually go to gross receipts. Under the present formula proposed, this is a revision of our old business license and is not dissimilar and there is really no scientific way of arriving at a fair way to tax everybody. Much of this Is done by past experience not only that of our City but the combined experiences of all the cities we could survey,, • I can assure you that the staff spent many hours surveying the amounts and categories of the other cities in arriving at these figures. Again we were away out of line, we were low and in this survey this tends to - with the few inequities pointed out, brings us more in line and more equitable under this method. It adjusts certain categories and adds some that were not included before. I think the improved central record keeping system along with the Business License enforcing officer - that this will be more equitable and ultimately bring in more revenue, but again that revenue is not to benefit the City Council - in some respects it may go back to the Chamber of Commerce and back you in services. With the exception of the realtors and the contractors - and I feel that the system adopted in El Monte might be one we should consider - Mr,, Peacock informed me during the recess that if we were to adopt this method it would bring us in more income from the contractors than we get under our present system and would be more fair to out of 'town contractors am well as our own. We can't kid ourselves the business license has to be passed along to the customer-. A business license fee is part of your business expense, I don't think this increase in most respects is enough to hurt the consumer. I do think it is enough to make it more equitable and to be able to help the City somewhat and also the Chamber. Councilman Gleckmano. Mr, Lestick-broughtup the subject of Finance Companies,, Mr, City Manager they also might be out of line? do you have any reason to think that • (City Manager asked Mr., Peacock to speak on the subject) Mr. Peacock,, of a percentage of their gross Basically there are two ways Finance Companies Companies, either assets. and Savings handle on a to charge & Loan flat rate - 15 - ADS'. C. C. 11-20©67 Page Sixteen BUSINESS LICENSE ORDINANCE REVISION - Continued Since the Council was not inclined to go along with gross receipts we .felt the flat rate would be best. This is more or less of a combination of the cities we surveyed. In reference to Savings & Loan, if we went on employees we could •only charge on that portion dealing in loans and not the savings, and this would give them an advantage over the Doan CoInpany because all of their people are involved in the same thing, although the Savings & Loan does a lot more business. Mayor Kriegero Mr,, Zartman or Mr. Tambe m could you tell me the last time the Chamber of Commerce increased the dues to their members? Mr. Tambe - Manager In October or November of last year. Chamber of Commerce Mayor Kriegero Do you remember the time before that? Mr. Tambe o In 1962. Mayor Krieger. And how long before 1962? Mr, Tambe,., I am sorry I don't know. Mayor Kriegero Will you explain how the fair share plan would work-? • Mr. Tambe: It essentially divides all the professionals, commercial, industrial, etc., into a number of categories, The Commercial -Industrial category is based on a factored system. .Three categories: number of employees, gross square fodtage of building size as well as annual volume of business. Each category is 9iven a factor on the scale and you add it up and the scale ranges from 40. on up, There is no maximum,, Mayor Kriegero Mr. Lesticwhat would you say the average number of employees would be Covina? in a Fih&nce Office here in West Mr. Lestloko As an average I would say four employees per office. Mayor Krieger: So you would pay $36. plus the one extra employee over three, In researching this subject matter I was astoun ed to find that the business license structure that we have in the City of West Covina that we are operating under Ordinance No. 594 which was apparently basically adopted by the City Council on October 14, 1958. Nine years ago and we have been operating under structure since that time. Unlike the property tax that changes each year and goes up with the value of the home. I think the Chamber of Commerce itself realizes the economic requirements of doing business, In fact I haven't heard anything from the Chamber to suggest that increased revenue is not required. And just by way of comparison - I pay more to the Chamber of Commerce in dues than I pay to the City for a license, ,We started this back in April by the creation of this Committee and i,,t would have been realized if we could have got this going at the time Of our budget consideration in May and June so it could have tied in� with the needs for revenue - but we 0 16 a ADJ. C. 0. 11-20-67 Page Seventeen BUSINESS LICENSE ORDINANCE REVISION A Continued have to take these things as they come. The first mandate of the Council was to come up with an equitable system if the present system was not equitable. I have expressed myself before and I will again state that I consider the gross receipts tax the most equitable system. The report of the Committee seemed to indicate that the 1958 formula just wasn't equitable and it was more equitable to categorize into various type of activities and I agree as this being the second most equitable approach. In my mind there was a need for a more realistic scale of license fees in this City then was represented by the license fee ordinance used that went back to 1958 and this was a stablized thing because it couldn't fluctuate. It was merely based on the number of employees. I suggest the Chamber of Commerce is perhaps even more realistic in their own approach to the subject of fixing their dues than the City of West Covina is in fixing their license fees. Perhaps they have adopted even a modified gross receipts although -it has a number of other factors in fixing the fees. tion because I think he has p I a preciate Mr. Pitmend nestpageata®. o ened tit a new area o would hope the Council would immediately move into this field of fees by permits, not just from the question of equity but the question of revenue. We have responsibilities for expenses and we have responsibilities for income This is a business whichever way you want to look at it m it is a business. It cant go into the red. We can't operate on a City level with deficit financing. To suggest we are operating within a balanced budget states a truism m we haveto • operate within a balanced budget, we have no other course of action. The reason we get a balanced budget is because we start slashing things - not with a great deal of publicity, but we are continually slashing this man' s budget, year in and year out, in terms of things he comes in with and we have to go to priorities on. So every dollar we have in income isn't going into surplus but into needed expendi- tures. If you will excuse my saying so I think this penny'.and nickel on this business license m we are talking about only $20,000 and in terms of total enhancement of the business community perhaps it would pay for a traffic installation at an intersection. That is about as far as 020,000 is going to go. I think the comments that were made this evening focused our attention in this entire subject matter on our fee schedule in the community. I didn't hear anybody come up and sa 11no you don't need revenue." So that doesn't seem to be an issue Except for the Telephone Company, which we would hope to fix, as there seems to be an area'of stipulation as to fairness, and in recognition of the Telephone Company's responsibility, an approach to this which in equity can -serve both the financial needs of the community as well as the regulatory aspects of the Telephone Company that it realizes from the City of West Covina. As I understand it Mr. Al assa m there is a suggestion that we establish perhaps a new sub- category under S rather than under retail and wholesale trucks, perhaps under utility service vehicles, which would except therefrom any utilities that would fall under any other classification of the business license tax. I have also heard some comment that we might be able to enter into a stipulation with the Telephone Company as to the number of vehicles that are being utilized.in that form of service in the City of West Covina. I want to compliment the Telephone Compari-y •I think it is a realistic approach to this situation and one which will do justice to their business needs and operations, as well as the financial requirements and obligations of the City of West Covina. So that I think, in the form proposed, the business license fees established is a step in the right direction. I thiink it is a more sophisticated approach to an age old problem, so I would like to see the real estate offices taken out of Category S and put in Category P. As far as loan offices are concerned I believe Mr. Lestigles comments are natural m they represent an increase from 17 C� • ADJ. C. C. 11-20-67 BUSINESS LICENSE ORDINANCE REVISION ® Continued Page Eighteen $39 to 0100 ® perhaps in excess for that particular individual busines. The figures that Mr. Bre,gman worked up were 6% to 34% but on the average of 010.64 average increase. The reason I say we are penny and nickeling this thing is if any business in'this community is on the break even point as far as the license fee - then I would suggest they look around for some other activity. They are in the wrong business to begin with. We haven't even begun to impose any type of financial situation to them with regard to a business licensee With respect to the general contractors and the subcontractors I would think this is an area for consideration and that direction should be given to the staff immediately to conduct a study -of our fees and permit charges. Once we take action on that we can go back to this category C and bring it in to some type of balance. The rests I think, is indicative of our responsibility as City officials in terms of necessary revenue to keep our business going. I would hope the council would move forward tonight with the necessary changes in this Ordinance to reintroduce it for next Monday night to adopt it. Councilman Gleckmans How about some method, if possible, so organizations such as Coldwell Banker licensed in some respect? Mr, Aiassa, City Managers I would like to suggest m as the Mayor pointed out.- that a base ordinance be up, adopted and then do the necessary follow - Councilman Snyder.- I thought 2 years ago we had some discussion regarding permits for real then? I can't remember, estate firms m why didn't we do that Mr. Aiassa, City Manager: There was a mutual agreement between the cities Mayor Krieger-, You had better check that out with the City Attorney, instructedctonmovearealyestateaofficesianydArealWs underaCategory P. Mayor Krieger-, Let's take a motion, if you will Dr. Snyder, to the body of the Ordinance before us, and then move in on the changes with individual motions, Councilman Snyder: I will withdraw my motion,, Mayor Krieger: A motions would be in order, to change real estate offices from Category S to Category P. Councilman Snyder.- I so move, Councilman Gillum: I will second the motion. Motion carried on a vote of four in favor* Councilman Nichols voting "no". 18 • Cl n LJ ADJ. C. C. 11-20-67 Page Nineteen BUSINESS LICENSE ORDINANCE REVISION m Continued Councilman Snyder. Regarding contractors and subcontractors there is not sufficient time to change that tonight - that can be changed later. Mayor Krieger-, You deleted Number 4 which would move each succeeding number up by one, establishing a new number under Category S for utility company service vehicles. Motion by Councilman Snyder, seconded by Councilman Gillum, that Utility Company service vehicles be placed as Number 25 under Category S and be taxed the same fee schedule as retail delivery trucks ® $20.00 per year per vehicle and to except therefrom such utilities as may fall within the other classification of the business license ordinance. Motion seconded by Councilman Gillum. Mayor Krieger-, This is basically in line with the discussion having to do with General Telephone o Mr. Aiassa? Mr. Aiassa, City Manager: Well no m there was one thing they did mention. I asked Mr. Misamore their average number of vehicles and he said 23 to 25 Mayor Krieger-, So there is no subsequent question on this and for the record, I would like to deviate from the standard procedure and I would like to ask Mr. Misamore or Mr. Brink - is there any question now in your mind having to do with the establishment of this category? Mr. Brink-, I am not an attorney and therefore I can only reflect the thinking of our attorneys, but they felt a specific category at the end of this clause which was directed to include ourselves and no one else would again bring up the question of constitutionality. Mayor Krieger-, Did you discuss with them the actual wording Mr. Brink. No. not that last language but the language used previously. The only point is that at this point 1t.is not included in that the same limitation in amount that was applied to the other one m to -that extent it is using a different rate. I am not quibbling at the amount but the validity. Mayor Krieger-, Well we do have under wholesale $150. and under retail $200. we could put a maximum fee figure under this. - Councilman Snyder. I would add to my motion a maximum fee figure of $500. per year per company. Councilman Gillum. I agree to the addition to the motion. Motion carried, four in favor; Councilman Nichols voting "nofB. - 19 ® 0 U ADJ. C. C. 11-20-67 Page Twenty BUSINESS LICENSE ORDINANCE REVISION m Continued ORDINANCE The City Clerk: presented. - INTRODUCTION " AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF WEST COVINA C R7A/.J PRoV/s/°,VS OF TA+� wBS% Cov-111 ^'I U N I C I OA � C o pt. /c �'L, R T//'✓ � 70 ,gvs/n/� ss Lt eE�is�s " Motion by Councilman Snyder, seconded by Councilman Gleckman,, and carried, to waive further reading of the body of the revised Ordinance. Motion by Councilman Snyder, seconded by Councilman Gleckman, that the City Council introduce the ordinance as revised. Motion carried on roll call as follows, AYES,, Councilman Gillum, Gleckman, Snyder, Mayor Krieger NOES,, Councilman Nichols ABSENT. None Mayor Krieger,, Mr. Aiassa, the Ordinance stands introduced. Motion by Councilman Snyder, seconded by Councilman Gillum, that Council instruct staff to prepare under Category 09 recommendations for contractors license on a fee basis similar to that which has been adopted.,by the City of El Monte, but not necessarily, the same. Motion carried on roll call as follows-, AYES,, Councilmen Gillum, Gleckman, Snyder, Nichols, Mayor Krieger NOESg None ABSENT,, None Councilman Gillum, I would like to this, that' would like to Commerce for their participation in this and had some people coma to me and say that they and I asked them if 'they were in the Chamber suggested that if they wanted to pa,r'ticipats they should join the Chamber of Commerce. I both to the Chamber and the City, if we could in the community in the Chamber of Commerce. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS to say one thing pertaining I and I am sure Dr. Snyder, thank the Chamber of their suggestions. I have were not asked about this and they said "no". I in this as a. group that think it would be of benefit get all the business people (Council agreed to the addition of Oral Communications to the agenda.) Phil Wax The Chamber Committee would very much 1014 W. Garvey like to recommend that the Council take West Covina into consideration the establishing of a Data Bank on business.licenses because of the complications the many categories and the many statistics - this is one of the areas that caused many problems at the level we tried to reach. We had no place to get statistics, we worked with, -Mr. Peacock and he had much .difficulty in arriving at figures and it is very hard to establish a good public relationship and communication on a touchy subject if there is no way you can gather the information properly. The Data Bank, in my opinion, -would be a marvelous method of really keeping in touch on these things. 20 0 41 ADJo C. Co 11-20-67 rage Twenty-one :BUSINESS LICENSE ORDINANCE REVISION - Continued Mr, Petersen-, I would like to thank you on behalf of 901 E. Valley Blvd, the Building Industry Assoc-.1, Lion for the reception we have .received. tonight, I appreciate your listening to us and we in turn will do all we can to help you, We realize: you have to h.atYa revenue, the main thing we are ,looking for is an equitable way of Collecting and not a few contractors paying it and the others going soot free, James Charter that will pay far more than Mayor Krieger-, particular subject matter? I have a question., In the retail sales I don't remember any maximum put on a store. We have a store in Eastland $500. - I am wondering why? You are going back into an action that the Council has taken. Do you have any statement to make on this Mr. Charter.,, I hope I have made my point, I don't believe it is fair to have one company license fee and another one kept to not, a maximum on their business Mr, Lesticko I would like to find out if the next Monday night meeting would be open for or if further data could be comment submitted? regarding the business license Mayor Krieger-, The Ordinance is for adoption, but at every regular council meeting we take up Oral Communications, I/ Louis Brutocaoo I Just wanted to state that Mr, Petersen is on the .right track but if .,you analyze it and the figures are correct - it will probably raise more revenue for the City than under the proposed ordinance, because he is talking about a $` 8.00 license fee and a C (8.00 building fee. You are therefore doubling your fee every -time. If a plumber were to come in and under a contract do two hundred homes he wuuld be paying the fee on each one, -I am not in opposition to it, I think it is good because I think the City does require the money, Councilman Snyder-, I feel that the recent misunderstanding With the Planning Commission is a result of the failure of the council to officially specify a set of goads or guidelines on. which the Planning Commission or Planning consultant, can work, I am going to structure a set of my own for the next meeting, hopefully to be receptive to the rest of the council in modification. I would like to see such a set adopted but we will have to talk this out together, Mayor Krieger.- Will you try and get it to the Council by mail Friday? Councilman Snyder-, Yes, I also was extremely upset by the cross examination procedure last week and I do feel it offers some.danger to democratic government and free expression by laymen and for the benefit of the City Attorney who is going to give us some legal opinion on this, I would also like to offer my Comments on this from a legislative stand- point, 21 o ADJ. C. C. 11-20-67 Page Twenty-two COUNCIL COMMITTEE REPORTS - Continued It seems to me that the person who appears before this Council under oath appears voluntarily ;=d there is nothing preventing him from turning around and walking out. He is not under subpoena and for that reason to imply to any person that they are compelled to answer under cross examination doesn't seem to me to be right. Also many of these people are laymen, not experienced with the council procedure and to come and face attorneys under cross examination tends to intimidate them and prevents the full referring of the information they might have and for that reason I am against the procedure of allowing cross examination at a hearing, It may be legal but I don°t think it is democratic. It may not come up for another couple of years but I don't think it is really according to the rules of procedure. I hope those two comments will help the City Attorney in arriving at his opinion. I am su Committee on Revenue and Taxation tomorrpowposed butto I amattend unablethe toState make it. . They have a long agenda noluding the allocation of cigarette tax, which the League may want two make recommendations on. Since I can't make it do you wish to send a staff member. He may not be able to vote but he can comment, or any other councilman that might be able to attend? (Mayor Krieger asked - no councilman Could attend) Mr. Aiassa, City Manager.- We called the League representative • `this afternoon, they were particularly concerned at getting Councilman Snyder's remarks which I assume he mailed 'today. They figured at this stage they would not really need representation,, Councilman Snyder: I mailed my comments. I do feel that this is an important Committee. As a result of this Committee, although it didn't come out in the form we proposed, the Cigarette Tax -was a result of this particular Committee. Taxes are going up everywhere and we have to represent our own interests and in the field Of local government there is no more important power than the power to tax. If you lose the power to tax then you really lose home rule, therefore the League has to fight to obtain city revenues in spitE,, of the fact the State and Federal Governments need revenue as well. If we don't fight for it at the local level it will be returned to us at the State level and we will be told how to spend it, This has been an important committee and I think It will continue to be. Councilman Gleckman-, I would bring up this evening the rezoning of some certain properties within tcomunity undeveloped in certain commercial zones. he I unmderstandthat thatare the Planning Commission is now taking it under advisement but I would like to so direct them along with the sketch plan that the 'Plannig Cons.u.1tant is doing, that they might look at some -of the areas in wnich. Zoning has been granted in the past and remains undeveloped in the commercial areas and what the feasibility would be and the advisability would be of rezoning those areas back to a more Compatible zoning so that we don't have spot zoning in some of the,areasof our community. Mayor Krieger.- So there is no confusion, I am wondering if this statement that you just made is a result of the conversation you and I had after attending the hearing last week. I am not quite sure the scope was quite as broad as you indicate and I don't want it to be misread. The Council after the last hearing directed the Planning - 22 - ADJ. 0. 0. 11-20-57 Page Twenty-three COUNCIL COMMITTEE REPORTS - Continued Director to look at C®1 uses and when he made his report to the Planning Commission he indicated he would like to amplify 'the use study of zones to all zones with a higher use than R"3. • Councilman Gleckman. I believe this is a different thing. Mayor Krieger-, I don2t believe the study was to encompass properties presently zoned Councilman Gleckman-, Right. I am not talking about what we discussed after our last meeting such as useages but about present existing zoning in West Covina that holds certain zoning for sometime which is undeveloped and in certain areas where it might behoove the present Planning Commission and City Council to take another look at that property to either down zone or up zone into a more compatible zoning, rather than leave it lay. Mayor Krieger-, Did you draw that conclusion from our conversation? Councilman Gleckman: Yes. And I would so seek to direct the Planning Director and the Planting Commission to do an overlay on commercial properties in the City of West Covina and come back •with -a report and recommendations through the Planning Commission and then on to the City Council. Councilman Gillum. I will second the motion. Councilman Gleckman: We have certain properties within the City of West Covina zoned quite sometime ago into commercial and the City since has developed and taken on other characteristics and maybe at this time it is not in the best interest to maintain that zoning. I would suggest that we bring it more in line with the new General Plan and sketch plan we are paying for and the City initiate to a rezoning of those particular properties that the Planning Commission and Planning consultants state are improperly zoned or spot zoned. Councilman Snyder: I would agree with you but for the fact that is exactly what you are doing in the General Plan and to do this ahead of the General Plan, I think it would be more proper to direct the Planning Commission and the consultant to study in their General Plan proposals, such changes of zoning that they feel pro -old not fit in line with our present growth, but I don't think it should be done separately from the General Plano Councilman Nichols: And I certainly don't think it should be limited to our presently zoned commercial land but any particular land Councilman Gleckman. The point I am making is for them not just to do a study but in fact if the zoning is improper that they make a recommendation that the City initiate the proper hearings in order to get it rezoned rather than just -leave it lay there. Councilman Snyder: As I understand the motion he is asking for an overlay of all zoning that is not being used? ®23m ADJ. Co 0. 11-20-67 Page Twenty-four COUNCIL COMMITTEE REPORTS - Continued Councilman Gleckmano We can't very well go back on a piece • of property -that has been 'built upon but undeveloped land and how long it has been;..undeveloped in that zoning - - so that this Council can direct the Commission to take the proper steps to seek action. Councilman Gillum. I offer the amendment of my motion to read "undeveloped existing zoning." I accept. Councilman Nichols: I think it is a commendable goal. We have often discussed this as a problem in the community 'but I think it is premature with the General Plan underway and the hearings to be coming before the Planning Commission, and the staff he taxed and engaged with the work in connection with the General Plan, I believe to direct the staff and Planning Commission at this 'time to make such a comprehensive study of literally thousands of parcels throughout the City, I think it is an imposition that they cannot bear. At a later time I would wholeheartedly support this review but unless the staff would come back and indicate to me that they would be capable of handling at this time I couldn't support it. Councilman Gillum.- Do we have the land survey in the • Data Bank? Mr. Aiassa, City Manager.- They have already made the field,.surveyo Councilman Nichols-, What you are asking is that the staff and Planning Commission recommend to this Council those parcels of land that may be improperly zoned o now that requires some analysis of each parcel, discussion on it and then recommendation. Councilman Gleckmano Mr. Nichols, I agree with you, but you have to remember that we recently had a meeting with our Planning Commission and one of the main things we talked about was a lack of recommendations, and a lack of direction by this Council on some of the projects they might be able to tackle and I would just as soon make this directive and recommendation and have them come back and tell us that they can't do it in any particular time, but if we don't ask we won't receive. Councilman Snyder: I would like to comment. I could vote for this if it were included as part of and apart. the General Plan study but not separate Councilman Gleckmano I said along with Councilman Snyder: I don't think the motion states that 0 too clearly. Mayor Krieger: I don't think the motion stated it in adjunct to the General, Plan, it seemed to me to be a separate directive to the Planning Director and the Commission. I would support the motion as long as the record reflects that I would expect the Planning Director and the Planning Commission to respond to this Council if they feel that such a direction is '_Anadvisable of accomplishment at this particular stage in their work progress. Councilman Gleckmano I would go along with that Mr. Mayor. 24 - ADJ. C. C. 11-20-67 Page Twenty-five COUNCIL COMMITTEE REPORTS m Continued Councilman Nichols: I would support on that basis. . Councilman Snyder: Mayor Krieger: Is the stipulation really a part of the motion? It is not part of the motion but the stipulation is to be made a part of the directive. Motion carried, four in favor; Councilman Snyder voting "no". Councilman Gleckman: I would like to direct the staff, with the Council's permission to make a pass at Cameron Avenue as to whether we could get dedication and have a report back to this Council by the.first meeting in December9 between bark Ellen and Azusa on the south side, ---------- Mr, Aiassa, City Manager: I think Council should compliment Mr. Krieger on his presentation to the Highway Commission W... Motion by Councilman Gleckman, seconded by Councilman Gillum, that Mr. Krieger be so complimented on the basis of Mr. Aiassa's statement, Motion carried, four in favor; Mayor Krieger abstained. o® Motion by Councilman Gillum, seconded byCouncilman Gleckman, and carried, that the Council meeting adjourn at 10:21 p.m. Next regular meeting ;% ATTEST: CITY CLERK APPROVED: �� 9 e, OR ®25m