Loading...
The URL can be used to link to this page
Your browser does not support the video tag.
09-18-1967 - Regular Meeting - Minutes
ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THECITY COUNCIL CITY OP WZST COVIN.A, CALIFORNIA SEPTEMBER 18, 1967. The adjourned regular meeting called to order by Mayor Harvey S. Krieger in the City Manager's office at West Covina City Hall at 6*07 p=bm. ROLL CALL Presents; Mayor Krieger, Councilmen Nichols, Gillum, Gle.ckman, Oounoilman.Snyder arrived at 6s.53 p.m. Also Presents. George Aisssa, (pity Manager Lela Preston, City Qlerk. Robert Gingrich, Director Recreation & Perks. H. R. Paet, Public Service Direot6r Raymond Windsor Administrative .Assistant. Barry Peacook,. AdministratiTe Aide NNNIOIPAL SWIMMING POOL. Mayor Kriegers The Municipal Swimming Pool is on the agenda. as an item for discussion by the Council. The chair recognizes the. ,presence this evening of a number of members of the Blue Ribton Committee,, on the Swimming Pool, including Mrs. Knutsen and Dr. Madden,; as well as. •members of the Committee.. Also the Chairwoman of the Recreation & Parke Commission, Mrs. Plesko, and the Director, Mr. Gingrich, and from his Department, Mr. Kirk IfUson. Last week the matter that first came to our attention which suggested an adjourned regular meeting on this item, was :one location of the swimming pool. Councilman Nicholas It was evident that the oo.unoil's action of a week ago created a degree of public concern that was warranted more by the newspaper treatment of the council action than by any action the oounoil took. In fact it is my recoll®ction that the newspaper artiole.was totally and completely misleading. Dr. Snyder m at the time. the staff Indicated it was time.for them to be directed by the.Oounoil to act on the matter.of the Swimming Pool, Dr. Snyder stated and prefaced his remarks that what he was going to say, meant.in no way that he ]looked disfaverably upon the location of the swimming Pool at the highschool but that we had not had a chance to discuss all the implications of that action as a sitting council and felt we should do so before we moved ahead. I concurred because it seems to me, unless the staff can move very expeditiously on this matter we may not get the facility finished as soon as I would like to see it completed. There were some matters involving policy decisions that had J, not really been discussed by council and if we did not discuss in detail' and then later some of these matterscame up it might cause an inordinate delay in expeditingthe original directive to move ahead on it. And that wQs my reason for seconding the mot.ian to isouss at the adjourned meeting. I.thought it should come up now 2-n'more specifics. We have not discussed the basis for the staffs consideration with the School District people as far to the land is concerned.. I -think the more-expbioit we can be here tonight in an area in which I have concern although I have no.00nclusions in mindp but we have to face the fact that.when completed the pool is going to be on School District property. Aw. . Co C. 9-18=67 Page Two SWIMMING POOL o Continued At the present time we have a School District and a staff that work very cooperatively together, but I can frankly see in the future where this might not be the case, and should we as a council seek a land lease with the School District or should we accept the.00ncept of the placing • of the facility on their land and a working arrangement with regard to the use of the pool, etc., be considered. This is my concern. I did not want the council to move ahead until we had discussed this land lease feasibility, Councilman Gleckman: I felt that the staff recommendation as well as the Citizen Committee recommendation and the action taken by the council prior to last Monday night was sufficient and I felt the request of.the staff as to going ahead and getting the architect and.work out the legal ramifications with the School -District was a.request by them for us to give them the go-ahead sign. At that time Councilman Snyder brought up the suggestion of location which I felt had already been settled. The basis for this meeting I felt was if he had some doubt as to the consensus of this council°s recommendation to the staff that the location be on Edgewoo.d High. I suggested last Monday night that we have. the legal.tarminclogy and agreement worked out prior to us. having a meeting of thi -'.-)type and that . the staff and our City At j'arney could work up an agreement that we could look at and at that time this meeting take place, but this was prior to Councilman Snyder°s request to talk about Location. My idea of location has not changed. I still feel Edgewood High is the.plaos.for the first.pool. I feel we should go ahead with the hiring of an architect and leave to the staff the seouring of bids from architects and have them come back to us with a •recommendation. I still feel the legal terminology should be worked out with the staff and we have, a draft to look at prior to discussing these conditions. I would think the staff, preferably Mr. Gingrich and his staff would have some idea as to the meoha4isms to.whic h we would agree in order for the.plaoement of this swimming pool on School grounds and until such legal agreement is worked out. and we give our comments and then here those of the School Distriot, I don't really feel that we can definitely decide anything at this meeting. I. think it is a little bit too early other'.:than to discuss location if there is a problem of location but I don't feel that there is, Councilman Gillum: I'think.Mr. Niohols.and Mr. Gleokman expressed my feelings on this. I am sure the Committee and the staff realize my feelings on this ® it is unfortunate that this question came -about at the last, meeting, I, am sure. it is an honest inquiry but as Mr.. Gleokman.stated, there, is not many of these things we can do.until the staff lets us know these areas. I think the staff reemphasized.the point for the reason the Committee made the choice they did. I can remember in discussion WOL would have liked to have had it on City ground so the City would have complete control; and I know there was discussion as to. the, type of agreement with the School. District and the City,and when that portion comes about I know the council and the City ,Attorney will make.every effort.to see. that both governing bodies, have -equal responsibility. I -have. to agree with Mr., Gleckman, I.think we are somewhat ahead of ourselves with this meeting. I wish Dr. Snyder were here beoause h am sure he has some honest concern about the location. I would end up as saying I.wholeheart.edl ..agree. with the Blue Ribbon Committee and wish .to proOSAA a-V, thih`,,do t with the same.....instr..uotions we were .asked to agree. on last. Manda7' night -as, far as the,legal.problems and the selecting of as architect, Mayor Krieger: I.think that is our point of departure then the staff, report. The first item -asks that we make a policy decision as to site for location of the pool. The recommendation of the blue 2 4 ADi. C, Co 9-18-63 Page Three SWIMMING. POOL - Continued Ribbon Committee was in sequence of construction. The first pool to take place at Edgewood and that was reviewed by the Recreation & Park Commission and the sequence of construction was concurred in by the Commissim. The policy question as to the one pool that the City Council has indicated it would build still involves a policy question as to where that one pool will be built so the staff was proper in directing our attention to the policy decision involving the one pool site. In Dr. Snyder°s absence I will restate something he brought up, as I remember o that he was somewhat concerned that a precedent was being established by the one pool the council has authorized being built on a school site whereas the other two highschools in the City at some future date -would come and say now ® where is o-ur pool? I think this was explicit in the comments he was making last Monday night and perhaps the comments he would be making this evening, although I have no power to speak for him in this regard. I would like to hear comments from the council so it can become a matter of record, having to do with the pool this council pledged itself to the construction of one swimming pool in this fiscal year and the statement was made that we could not bind future councils, as to the -policies they may follow as far as additional construction is concerned. During our budget session this council followed through on this pledge and even before we knew what our tax rate would be to insure the 4135,060 in funds for the pool, we directed the City Manager to include such an appropriation in the budget even if it involved a tax rate increase over the existing rate. Some two months later then we determined that such funds would be available without a tax increase, partly due to the State Legislature placing a cigarette tax. There has been no difference of opinion on this council with regard to the construction of one pool and the $135,000 would be •made available for this purpose. The policy question still remains as to where that one pool is going to be built and 'whether or not there is any validity to the suggestion that perhaps a prece'd6nt will be created whereby future councils, not legally but morally will be bound to the other high schools. I$ there any feeling by the council that placing the one pool at Edgewood High will constitute such a comment? Councilman Gillum: This selection was made as stated in the report. A number of things were taken into consideration. The cost, the facilities required to build a swimming pool, cost of land o the location boiled down to Edgewood for all these reasons. If we were to build, for example at. West Covina High, certain facilities were not available and it would raise the total cost of the pool. Also in talking with the School District people we found 'that the District Football field for the high schools is at Edgewood, they have the looker and parking facilities. I think the City realizes that we are going to have but one pools I don't think we would be setting a precedent by this counc-11 to say that because of these reasons at this time we are locating the pool at this high school. In a report, the Committee has suggested the order in which they are to build but this council has pledged but one pool this year. Looking at the report and studying the cost for any other location other than a park and I think there probably would be more criticism for that area than locating in the. high school, also the cost would be more. I don't think we will be setting a •precendent because all we have pledged is to build_,one pool and the Committee has also -stated one at a time but that there is a need -for four pools in the community. Considering all aspects the only choice we have is this unless we want to come up with more money. I am sure there are people who would like to have it closer to thdr home, but the Committee was composed of a cross section of citizens and they realized what was needed to put a pool in the City and this was the reason this location was selected because it was the least expensive way to put a pool in this year, a3= ADJ. C, 0. 9-18-67 Page Four SWIMMING POOL o Continued Councilman Gleckman-, I requested the minute book because I felt when this subject came up before the -final discussion and motion made by the council was to definitely adopt the idea of a swimming pool and at • the sametime adopt the location o£.Edgewood High School, Mayor Krieger-, I don't have a positive recollection of a site being made. Councilman.Gleckman-, I would have to check the minutes - I believe it is in the June minutes. Mayor Krieger-, Regardless of the outcome of the question, it doesn°t mitigate the question before the council at this time, which has to do with the statement of where are we going with this pool.program. Referring to the September 8th report the.polioy decision in the opinion of the staff has not been made, I would assume if it had been there would not have been any need for that first item in their report. .Is there anything.that suggests itself, as far as a position from the school standpoint,. which would make a high. school site unuseable from the city standpoint in.terms'of the school district stating that we wish.this or we will not agree to this or wont do that?. I think we should implioitely.stat.e with regard to .this 0 y p question of utilization of someone else s property, the terms on which we are willing to go.forward with that. Ithink the staff needs more •direction in that regard as to what would be unacceptable. Councilman Nichols a The only .thought I have had is that, it is well and.good.for us to say we agree with the Bdgewood High site and now in broad terms work out an agreement and come back wigs it to us. Butthere are some things that have not been taken into consideration at the very outset and that it would be better to bring up now. I was having a conversation with one of the school officials reoently and he mentioned in his �udg.ment that the lookbr facility proximity for .boys, were completely adequate but not for --girls. I have not explored this in great detail m what additional facilities will be needed and where-theyt-.are to. be placed and who is going to pay the cost if the facility is to be located and is it to be on school district property where the City has no other access m or does the council feel that the city staff should be directed at the outset to secure such and such to protect the city°.s Investment?, I don't believe these are items we should leave to the staff to make decisions on in terms of what they come baok with in their final. recommendation. I. think they are areas.we should be concerned with and we should,give final direction. Councilman Gillums The .thing that concerns me - I .don"t think -we . can sit .here tonight :.and. say we have to have this and the School Mistriot must do this. Mr.Aiassa, has the staff had any contact with the School Dis riict pertains to this item other than in general discussion? (Answers no�hing oonorete� • I .t nk t e has t b a 1i nary meenngg w the S000�i81ric to get theirfeelingsas to what rights the 0 ty .would have with the pro arty I..don t.1hink we can sit here and say we have to have this and this and than go, to. the, 8.ohao1 District, Counoilman Niohols s, Nap but vhat ire are prepared - to say., is that it will be Bdgewoad High and then -work out at _agreement And are w� prepared to commit ourselves irrevocably w thout knowing some of the' problems that will be involved? = 4= ADJ. C. C. 9-18-67 Page Five SWIMM NG POOL► - Continued Councilman Gillum-, I am sure in the past those discussions with the past council and school board may have come up. In my conversation with the school people they indicated that they would very much like to have the pool at the high school but they had no funds whatsoever to •participate in it in anyway. I know things have changed with the School Divot recently but how far or in what way, I don't know. I think first we have to direct the staff to sit down with the School District and discuss it. Mayor Krieger: I am favorably disposed, after -looking over all the information, to manifesting the hope to utilizing the 0135,000 to build the first pool at Edgewood High, But I think.this has to be subject to certain conditions; one, a mutual3-y 4cceptable agreemeat,with the West Covina School District for the utilization of one of their sites. I don't think procedurally it would be proper to make an irrevocable decision to build at Edgewood and then run into a problem with the School District as to authority. I think this .is going to be a necessary item that there will be some negotiation on. I would hope in looking ahead that some type of joint agreement w6Uld oome into play whereby the School District would set certain of their legal jurisdictions over the property that the pool would be constructed on either to the .City on a joint basis or appoint such legal authority onto a third agency, creating such as we did with the Joint Authority on the Civic Center so that jurisdiction would be divided from both contracting. agencies to insure that regardless of the personnel who make up the City Council or the School District in the future that no problems could arise merely from the change of incumbents; We have the best •relationship with the School District at the present time but at the sametime no one has -a claim to their seats on our City Council nor the School District Board, therefore I would like to treat this as a legal matter which requires a firm and fhht agreement binding on both parties and if necessary bring into it a third party so the future of the availability of the pool would not be subject to the whim of a City Council or School Board. Also, remove from the possible realmof criticism by people in the community that, take notice of.the fact that we. gain, a pool by using general fund money for the :,,zenstruction of the pool on a piece of property that is not owned by the'City of.West Covina, but by a School.District. I can't imagine where any legal problems would be created for either the School District or the City in entering into suah an agreement so that the pool would be in the strictest con® text.a.'Municipal Swimming Pool. There are a number of factors that suggest the utilization of school property for a Municipal Swimming Pool but whether it is going to be a Municipal Swimming Pool or not will be determined by the document entered into to make sure that this - is a Municipal Swimming Pool. I would hope that the Council would manifest an intention -to build the first pool at Edgewood High and that this' would be subject to negotiations by the drafting of a agreement between the School.District and the City which would assure the rights of both parties as to the use of the pool, the maintenance of the pool, etc., or the vesting of such jurisdiction in a third agency by both the School Dist3:bt and the City. • Councilman Nichols: This is essentially theL point of concern I :have. I :have. witnessed. in our communit in rior years -situations that.have developed between personalities wit a d-splay of personal pre-judicas, and such a situation could reap great damage to any type of negotiable arrangement with the-Sehool.District and I don't think -.we can_ rest on -the -present. harmonious. relationship between. City -Co-uncil, .staff and the School District, for the future, and I think the policy the Mayor has stated of a.third party, is the type we could live with. Councilman Gillum: I would -go along with it Mr. Mayor. The ® 5 ADJ .®a .O; 9�18-67 Page Six SWIMIU-NG.'POOL. o. Oentinued one-thing.that conoorns me is tlie. agreement between the Oity and. the School District.. This.-. 1a.:. to me . far m re important than anything else that..is d0tdsd about the pool.. Again I. have to say I think we are a little bit ahead of ourselves because no one has -made contact with the . School >aistriat9 but ;by having this meeting we -are at least. •giving some direction in letting the staff knew our feelings.. I agree. with you m on making -suttee that any future council and school boards are in .a position to honor . the contract and, -fulfill the requirements without any misunderstanding between the, two..governing be.dies, ,Oounoilman Nicholss,s. r disagreement.. xith. the Biting.. of be my strongest feeling that is .Dr., 8 .cyder °, q feeling was mainly delays, and Unfortunate reactions I.:: want, it understood by the concerned citizens..amd members of the Ott6e that.at no time have I indicated a the pool at-Edgewooda in fact it would where itshould go.. My seconding to,talk it over and avoid any possible in the community at.a later date. Mayor ,1rieger.s Mrs.. P7lesko o in the ,staff report. of . 'September-8tha item 29 refers to a direction to the Recreation &- Park Oom- mission. or staff to,.00ntaot the -School District. Would you comment please . - do you feel the Oommission has a useful role to .perform at this juncture or do you feel this is more in the realm of staff negotiations. between the. prospective participants,?,, Mrs. .Pl.9sko p Chairman Recreation & Park .Oommission As.. directed by the Oc, noil the Oomaaie.sion did parr' the ball to the Scho.ol.D.istriot board and they gage. .their..who-lehearted approval of the site. -we then .had. a meeting on June 15th and Mr,; Ken ,ftappa7l met -with ass and he, was .in.. full accord. with the report, ..This has been forwarded to. the, council and-I.don°t know if ,we could be of much benefit to the staff. or the. o.ounoil .at.. this juncturewe would a,®rtainly be happy to. work with the staff D if we can, be of further eervioe,. Mayor 8riegers:,. There was.. no. question as to the willingness .of the Recreation &. Park Oommission to work in a serving capacity,) but it struck.me that perhaps..we. have rea,ohed_.the stage. where this is strictly at the staff Level.. Dr. Madden and. Mrs, Knutson you acted as co-chairmen of this Oommittes.. There have been.a number of comments as to..Juurisdiction and the sensitivety the council felt with regard to the community itself .pertaining. to the utilization.of, general fund monies on property other than owned by the.Oity. Do you:have any reaction on this question itself as to the deed for negotiations to preserve that area of concrete jurisdiction with the School District on.. the site. Dr. Maddens I think in fairness to Mr. Gingrich--. ..he certainly pointed out the. possible pitfalls if. .this recommendation was madeo for myself I am a little concerned that we are, in...the. _dilexna. that we -are now because other cities are uusimg fazilitias:.co.opprat ye7ly. with school Districts in the same manner and -It would appear to me tf others can in the same manner thatmast have --gone through the same legal compromising. to. reach sons® .mixtuually agreeable understanding. I 00mour thh,e�re may 'be some problemsn but. I cannot conceive that they are insurmanntable.. 6 6 1N 0 0 0 a. 9-1 -67 Page. -Seven SWIMMING POOL o continued Mrs, Knutsens- : I:. also.. feel, it can be, worked out with the School ,District, but as -you say, you don't want to commit —the City until you, are sine it has. been worked out. to your -satisfaction., •Mr. Gingrich' Director There. is no-, dowbt in my mind that a Recreation & Part definite legal document must be worked -o.urt. We. are not. aware of a City at present,. ' in. the area with the same ciroumstances.s nor am I. aware of a third party .agr,eement. with a City and a School underthe same. circuumstanges, We do know of a pool where there is an.annuual agreement on a continuing basis., .There is one in the San Jocquuin Valley thaV,has . been in use, for 10. year and there has net been any complications - between -the School and the city in regards to the wool. The only agreement I am familiar with .is. the, one that is an agreement on an annual basis m and that states that when anybody oonstrue_ts something on school property technically and legally it, beeem®s '.their property, Mayor. Kriegers:. Going. baok to the. 1964 Bond Issue this was something.we.on the council spent sometime and concern about and we asked fora report at that time when. we. were discussing the four sites on how this could be worked out with the School. District.. The report of the staff, as I.rsmember at that time, was. that in -other communities they had done this on an annual agreement type of basis and I remember expressing some concern at that, times which I,oontinu$e to.harbor at this. time as. to the desirability of an annual type of •agreement which is suubjest, to, a possible renegotiation at a later date. It is the type of agreement whereas if, the City were. dissatisfied for .one reason or another, justifiably or not., .on. an annual basis you can° t very well, piok up.your pool and :..go home that ° s it.l You don't have real negotiating leverage at a time like that. Inthis disouussion I think we have to. be..frank about it = West covina°s negotiating leverags_for a pool on a high school site is:at its conception and unless it Is., used now we will not have. a second chance at it, as far as that particular pool site is. ooncern9d, We may remember the experieno.e and gain knowledge for fuuturs uuse, it would be much better both for, the*. City and the School District for this to be.-s; pleasant experienoe. on. our first construction and which would more. properly lead to future construction than it would to have an embittered exposure to a problem that may possibly develop in the.future where.the..Oity ismot really in a negotiating..position but merely in the position of saying we hove. to take. what we can get.because we don't have any reasonable, alternative. Councilman ,Gleokmano:. I found .the stat.em®nt. in the minutes but it. didn°t dome to a vote as to the actual, l,00.ation ether than.my. statizag I. would go. on record as stating Edgeweed High and Councilman Gillum, agreeing, so you are correct Mr. Mayor.. I. guess we never. did vote on it i we only directed the staff along these lines.. Councilman Nicholas I think the proper recommendation would be.E,dgewood Sigh, as the.. site for the first pool, and. I. think we should go. ahead on the assumption that _the agreement, the. City would seek would be tomutual benefit of both parties, I, feel. we should proceed along. positive lines andLI than if we hit a. snag. take, it up ..at that. time, ..and not look- fer tr uu-b-11. at th�,s ticua7l tin .. I ]4�vs d _i�dio�� one from the, _ .ol and: the _: dmin titration t t Shey ,,erne- :n ek to 000:p:arat.e in.. every . m er their are permitted to do soAn o , er to see the.. construuotion of this first pocl with the idea that if this swimming__,pool reoeives. the use.that I believe it will, it will. be evident:to the .future councils that:..ano.ther .second, third_,and possibly fourth pool isnecessai�A the : ggeal. Of the community in Order to serve. the. community needs. I t ink'that we shou41d direct the staff. to Aw, Co Co 9-18-67 Page Eight SWIMMINGPOOL,- Continued proceed with the,legal,terminology to work up an>agrelement that would be to the best t of our. ability one that would insure. what .we. as, a council. would. be -Obligated to insure for all the citizens Of Our community; present.a draft..to the City Council and then take it to. the School District. And regardless -of the- outcome. of this particular • agreement . -I feel., we_& hould direct the staff to ga ahead. -with securing the architeo.tand-making a.recommendation to the- .�Couneil- iW_nge nee-e-esary'that can along these. lines in order to. do all the i - be done. up. to, the.. actual time that this Council. agrees with' the-, school Distzbt and a' Igns. some type of agreement to, pr6ceed-. I. feel we should proceed rather than hold back at this. .particular time.pending the pa,rtioular agreement. Councilman, Snyder,.,, Basically I- am opposed to the Siohool. District site,., - but I will go along with the rest Of the council. The reason, number 18 unless somebody is willing to -show me where. I.. am. wrong9--the City in.developing the pool and the concept of.the poo1v has, had. no cooperation frox.the School District,, at least never any leadership cooperation,,, it has always been up to us and it-seemw-to me we. oome . along- and give them a swimming.,. pool and this.. Will be the same..philosphy that will be expected in the future for ather school sites.. I honestly believe that --Aat more, 'thaA one pool should be. built out -of. the... general fund and in this case a city site would be more appropriates, however. I am not unalterably opposed to the school, site, anal ..if the rest of the:. council feels that way I will go.along-with that.. I. feel if we should. use &school site that..Edgewood High: is, the logical place. Only there has -never been.. to my, knowledge.g.any voluntary. cooperation ,or help from the School District on the. problem of a..swimming. ,pool it has always been the: City -and the .Recreation & Park,Department that has. taken the initiative on Uts,- although I do. 8:97 thatourother- school programs in conjunctio3i'vith the...Scho.ol District have gone well.... Councilman Gillqms I can understand yc=. fee -ling.. Councilman Snyder,'but I think you must realize that the -School. District. for the past 15 years have been. faced ,with the population increase causin the ne,e.d for more. classrooms,- etooActually we have -!taken %the first steps for providing a 8WJMM-jngL.1poOl, the City took the initial step with the. bond,issue and it was proposed at.�that time that the pools be. looated.on school property. I. am :sure if the School District had the money when the: high school was built they wed d have put; a pool in because the school is designed. for it, I think it is unfortunate that they haven't had the funds... Councilman Snyders They have had funds, they-used.to-have a 3¢ tax which they gave to the -City for the Recreation & Park. program. v#-ioh they withdrew over our protests. Again,;Iam not.objeoting to the pool at Edgewood.-High but to the idea of the city partially supporting., the school District in its effort to supply a pool. Itisa different governing.body, they have their own.method of taxation and.we.have. enough .problems with our own -revenue taxatlon, without .laving.. in ..part - to support the School District in their operations. Mdresoq it is a, matter . of feasibility and the matter of precedence you.are.settipg,- here., tb)e.faot that there will be the clamor. and need for two. more - swimming pools which we. will have to provide at two more high school sites.., - 8 - CJ C� a ADJ. C o C o 9-18-67 SWIMMING POOL - Continued Page Nine Councilman Gillum-. I think in a sense we are saving the taxpayer ° s money, We all. live in .the same City, we -all Pay the school taxes, etc., and if we were to go out and locate on city property the money we have would not be adequate. In a sense what we are proposing., if the legal problems.can be worked out, is a saving of the taxpayers' money. Also if we place this pool in a paFk or on city ownid property I am sure the use of the pool would not be as great as in the school. I think we will get the. maximum use out -of the dollars invested from. the.general.fund by putting the pool at the school site, It will be utilized the year around and in the summer months it will be for the use of the public. We all pad' the ball, whether it goes to the School District or the City and I think if you look at the overall picture we. are saving a considerable amount of money. Councilman Snyders There are other sites besides the parks - City Yard. Councilman Gillum. .I would like to suggest one thing. along .,With what, Mr. Gleckman said I would like to have the staff contact the Sd dol District in San. Joaquin Valley that Xra Gingrich referred to or any others. in. the .same position, and Find out if they have e'faeeuntered any problems, Mr. Gingriohq Director Recreation & Park When we Were at the conference this sammar -we went. over there and talked to the. Svkperin.ten,dent of Sohools. and he indicated they had no problems,, Mayor Krieger: We are interested in approao:ming .this in as broad a front as possible, but I am won4ering whether or not your item number 3 is timely at this juncture. 'It strifes: me as a. matter of `first impression that you are goingto pave -to tell the architect where you -want the pool.. Can someone suggost to me what this means? Mr. Aiassa, City Managers because the location, will. play To date these things have only Committee and the staff-, ,,but .we Mayor Krieger. One of t)is -important things. for the architect to do is not only review the pool..design.bui also the location a very large role in the pool, design,.. lbeen, disous0ed with, the Blue. Ribbon have 'zt bought in axperts. What type of proposals are you.going to solicit From them? Mr, Aiassa, city Manager:. We will.review this. matter with, architects who are designing these. types of pools, . Mayor Krieger. I can understand where you want to go through a screening process for ;.e. . arahit4ct ..-the .game as the Oiv, .6 i..1 bent6r bit when you talk about proposals. from architects what are yo-i, talking about in the harms. of the proposals? Their qualifications? Mr, Aiassa, City Managers Right, The type of pools they have- builtp .for who9 their backgrounds fees., reputation, etc. 9.� ADJ. 0 . 0 . 9-1-8-6 p "Page -Ton We actually, physicall,y9 interviewed numerous architects on the site of the Civic Center, and we would .like to do this with engaging one for the pool. Mayor Krieger: So you are.suggesting that the council authorize the city manager to interview the architec.ts.for the planning -of the swimming pool. Mr. Aiassaa City Manager: Right. We will end up with. about three that will be brought in contact with the. Council for the final. decision. Mayor Krieger: Item 4. _z_o,u reach. after ,.,:.._ committing anything now. Mr. Aiassa,9 Oity Manager:. You are not committing anything .now, Mayor Krieger: Is there further discussion as to .site or procedures to be followed for :firming. up an agreement? I would hope that the council, as a result of our discussion and weighing the ,factors brought to our attention o I think there is some coneern about precedence, but I think the record has established its policy for the construction of one pool, it has been indicated time andtime:again that we can't bind future councils as to costaq locations, etc., or whether they ever will construct anther pool, but that within the opinion of this council there will be one pool constructed at this time. The factors in favor of Edgewood High are more convincing than 'those factors opposed and on •balance it seems to me to be the site of a first preference. And I would like to think that the council's expression would be just that it would be_ a first preference of the council -to construct at Edzewood. High.. Item 2. having to do with the proposed agreement, I would hope tha,t..:the council would direct the staff rather than the Recreation & Park. Commission. And as far as direction I think it would be along the lines that their goal should be either a two. -,party concept agreement, or a third party agency -be created for the ownership, .maintenance and operation of khe pool.. And finally the staff should be authorized to int.ervie* probpective arohit ots -and report. back.,t.o. the oouncil a list of the architects along with a recommendation to the touncil. So moved by Co.unoilman-Niohols. Seconded by Councilman Gillum, Mayor Krio,gers The first prefere.n,oe is to construct on the Edgewood High School. Motion oaried on roll call as follows: AYES, Councilmen Gillumt Nichols, Glec;kmanb Mayor Krieger FOES s Oouno i,lman Snyder ABSENTS None Mayor Kriegers Item 2s Direction to the staff to ex a,ge in immediate negotiation with the Vest Covina School.Distriet with the purpose of accompli.shi.ng a joint .agreement pertaining to the ownership, management, participation, eto., of the pool., or tkxougk,a, •third party agency for the ownership-, management a partio.ipation-std operation of the pool, :faoil.i.tie,s. Motion carried on roll call as follows: AY3,8s Councilmen Gillum® _ Nichols, Gleckman, Snyder, Mayor Kri°eger..... NOES s None ABSENT-, None = 10 = Aw. o C o o 0 9-18-67 Page 11 SWIMMING _POOL o Continued Mayor Kriegero Aut rite the City Manager to:intery ew prospective arichtect consultants and make recommendations to the City • Council.for final discussion and selection. Motion carried on roll call as follows- AYES Councilmen Gillumq Xichol,s.,.,Gleokmanq.Snyder, Mayor Krieger NOES - Drone ABSENT-0 Drone Councilman .Nichols: Mr -..Mayor on the general question. we have not discussed toni.ght..with the City Manager the time element, "go mentioned something:.about . months to pick an architect. I would hope that come next summer we would have a swimming -pool around West Covina and 'I would hope that. we can move faster than. the. P9months" he, mentions, Mr, Aiassa, City Manager-., The first item I wrote out was. a Time. Chart ® and I. would like to have-.tlhi.s ready for the council at the next- meeting. We have- almost half the year gone.. The negotiations and the methods of developing.the best possible agreement betweenthe 'Sohool D striot and .the City can go together at the sametime weare interv.Xawing- architects,. I would like to set a time date so we oan push .these toings in that direction. Also that is ,another reason why we have to start with the architeots now in order to find out what their work schedules are for the.next several months, Mayor Krieger- With .regard to the time. -element m you already reoeived a mandate on that.. at the meeting. the oounoil voted to oonstruot.one,pool during this fiso.al..,year, whioh started on July 1, 1,967 and ends June 30, 1968. We have allooated the funds for that purpose and in this fisoal year that pool should be constructed and completed. Motion by Counoilman Gleokman, seoolidod by ,Co,unoilmau Gillum., and oarried, that the Counoil recess at 7 p.m. to'the hour of 8 pm. MW*IW Page Twelve C r� Mayor Krieger reconvened the adjourned reguliur meeting of September 18th at 8 p.m., in the Coumoil, Chambers. The Pledge of Allegiance was led by Councilman Nichols. All members of the Council were present. Also Presento George Aiassa, .City M&ua,ger H. R. Past, Public Service Director Lela Preston, City Clerk Robert Gingrich., Director of Recreation & Park Allen Sisal, Chief of Police Captain William Ryan Chief Raymond Windsor, Administrative Assistant PUBLIC HEARING 0OR A.C,Eo Mayor Krieger-, City Clerk, do you have the Lela Preston, City 01orks The first item of business at 8 p, mo , is the Public Fearing on Citizens Engaged in Anti=Orime.Effort. Madam affidavit of publication? Peso Motion .by Councilman Gillum, Reconded by Couunnilmwa Gleckman, and carried, that council receive and file the affidavit of publication, Mayor Kriegerg We have a staff report and recommendation on the Pu1,tlio- Hearing matter proposed. staff report and recommendation's Mr. Aiaosa may we have the reading of the Mr. Aiassa, City Manager-, Ca tai:, Ram will. present the material; Oh of Sial and the staff will be ready for questions after the brief' report. •They' also have some visual aids that may 'be used. William Ryan, Ca ta.in City of West Covens Police Dept-, Powr a number of years crime in America has been increasing at a raid rate. Every .American is reminded daily by .newspaper articles from across the nation, by radio, by television, and by the news -media and more vividly reminded by his tax dollars and in many oases by becoming the victim at a criminal, att, that crime. is a serious problem in America. Many Americans are afraid to use public streets and parks. Some have came to doubt the earth of a society in which so many people behave so badly. Some have I-apsed into the attitude that criminal behavior is normal human behavior and consequently have become indifferent to crime or have adopted it as a good way to get ahead in life. The Most understandable mood into which Many Americans have been plunged by crime is one of frustration and bewilderment. For crime is not a, e2ingl,e phenomenon that can, be examined, analyzed, and described in one piece,. It occurs in every part of the country and in every strata of society. Its practitioners and its victims are people of al:i ages, incomes, and backgrounds. Th c,uuses of, tine a numerous st rio and intertwined. To even beg n o unders an t cau�sss one must gather statistics about the amounts and trends of crime, so mate the cost of crime study the conditions of ,Life where Crime thriveav identify crime and victims Of crime and survey the public's attitude toward crime.. The Bureau crime costs the American .peopleral 27 b� lioncdollarstiagati , estimates that for every family in the United States. In the year, or 574 dollar past nine years, crime o 12 o ADJ. C. Co 9-15-67 Page Thirteen PUBLIC HEARING o C,E.A.C.E. - Continued increased six times as fast as our population. California has the highest crime rate of any State in the nation. Los Angeles 6ou.nty has the highest crime rate in the State. Therefore, we live in the most crime infested region in the united States, yet California has the highest standards of any State for the selecti on anal training of its • policemen. Crime has increased at such alarming proportions that in July of 1965, recognizing the urgency of the nations crime problem and the depth of ignorance about it, President Johnson established a C-ommission can law enforcement and Administration of Justice, ..-.The Commission's report entitled ,.The Challenge of Crime in a Free Society„ is th' most comprehensive of its kind ever produced. There were 234 recommendations c vering ll phases the report. The most pertinent of these recommendat$ons is hat every -Rate and every City should be specifically responsible for.planning_.improvements on crime prevention and.control.and encourage their implementation. We find in our own City that crime is increasing. Pact I m Homicide, Rape, Robbery, Burglary, Aggravated Assaults Larceny over 050.00 and Auto Theft m have increased 116% since 1960. Our Cityes population has increased only 25% during this same period. This means then that crime has increased 4.6 times faster than our population. We in law enforcement are extremely concerned and it is obvious that the general public is likewise becoming alarmed. Many crimes could be prevented if the citizen would take more preventative measures. We find there is m urgent need for educating the citizen to take steps to safeguard himself and his property. The. Police Department recentl ppresented to you a report entitled 110EACE - CITIZENS ENGAGED IN ANTI -CRIME EPPORT". The f0port covers the crime picture in America as wellas the local problem. explains the community's role in law enforcement,, precautions that can be taken and the importance of educating citizens in crime prevention. This report sets forth some basic recommendations that we believe will help to reduce crime in this community. Flint Michigan; .Chicago, Illinois,, Oakland.. and San Die o and our neighboring City, Monterey Parka have programs involving citzen participations They have all experienced good results in crime reduction. Other programs stressing prevention, inspection, and education by Fire Departments, Insurance Companies, the National Safety Council, and many other organizations throughout the County have proven successful in reducing the fire hazards, accidents in. home and industry, auto deaths, and the like. We feel that a program of making crime prevention information available to residents and business people, outlining precautions that can be taken to protect their property, themselves, and their community will lower crime incidents in our City. We feel this can be accomplished by meeting. herein the residents and businessmen can be informed of the problems in their area. By the use of visual. aids and discussion, we can a-uggest precautionary measures which can be taken and thereby gain citizen assistance in lowering crime in this community. Such a grogram can be coordinated by the Planning and TrainingBureau of) the Police Department, It is recommended that two police officers be assigned full time to seek citizen participation, to develop citizen awareness -to the increasing crime problem and to develop educational programs. • The report recommends that the prevention program for commercial areas be implemented through the Chamber of Commerce, various businessmen's organizations and service clubs. Due to the complexity and size of the residential areas within West Covina, it is perhaps impossible to recommend a one best method of implementing a program of crime prevention for 13 ADJ. 0. Co 9-18-67 Page Fourteen PUBLIC HEARING o C.E,AoC,Eo m Continues residential areas. In our report to the Council we have outlined the method used most successfully by other jurisdictions in -implementing a similar program. In the interim, we have attempted to weigh the benefits of every possible vehlae for substituting a workable program of residential crime prevention for West Covina. As a result we have •brought forward for ypnr consideration a plan which would use the existing elementary school PTA organizations as a basis for Instituting the residential area program, The .PTA's are a well.organized group in each of our schools. It is possible, we feel, to work through tb,e.local PTA Presidents to coordinate the program with the residents of the various school areas. The school boundaries of each school could serve as the area districts. This would provide much the same coverage as outlined in our report. A plan.for implementation could proceed in the following manners 1. CEACE program would be coordinated by the Planning and Training Bureau. A. Two police officere- would be assigned full time .to seek citizen participation, develop citizen awareness of the increasing crime problems develop educational program. 2. Recruit School and PTA Participations A. The City with more than 18,000 dwelling units could be divided into areae'within the present various school boundaries. . B. "' Contact the.:. four .(4) ,School -District -Suuperintendents ..and discuss the CEACE program with the objective of enlisting their support and facilities for the program. C. Upon securing support from the District Superintendents, Invite the School Principals and PTA Presidents -to a workshop meeting to explain the OEACE program and ask for their support and resources. Explain what role the PTA would play in...tka®, total program. (1) Coordinate area meetings through the PTA. newsletter, or special notices provided by thePolioa Department, ee'tting forth date, time ,and location. D. If�Soho'ol and PTA participation could be gained0"the residential areaswould be planned around school boundary linos s. � It is our opinion that if this pilot can. be implemented with periodic evaluations and adjustments,, it has a good chance for success.. Mayor Krieger, Is there any further staff report,. Mice Aiassap at this time on this matter' Mr. Aiassa, City Managers There is only a communication, the council has a copy, From Mr. Ted Rademacher, President of the Eeg.G,V. 'Chapter of the ACLU. They had, a.-zeeti�ag on Thursdaynight and our Chief was n that panes.- If the council has a questionsan the Chief, 1 am sure, can answer them. There is no further report. MAYOR KRIEGER ANNOUNCED THAT THIS WAS THE TIME AND PACE FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING., . l4 .-- A.N. 000. 9-I8-67 Page Fifteen PUBLIC E3ARING O. E. A. G. E. o Comtins�ed Everett.- aplliAay Itis a pl Basuurs, tea cflme ,_over heap and., Chief of Pallas give whatever I can of my supportNdo�ata ray Park verbally to Chief. SIIV a pra p.oae,d pro- gram. I° : SSgl s®me*hat. obligated • Insofar, As prior to the time I got azgagel in this proposal.we had a lot. of conversation and he encouraged me in the :efforts we punt. forth in Nentars� Park, and in wh116h I feel we have had considerable success, and I fs41 disposed to maks.a few remarks which 1.1991 might help his pian'hers o I think the key to the opposition to ,this kind of proposition is the very natural suspicion which enters some peoples minds, that someone that has no authority might .get a little heady with authority and might became a anisance in a neighborhood and .a. bu sybody. I would hike to submit, gentlemen, that we have such busy- bodies in every community and in the Police Department we already have them pegged* I would like to sag in this regard that this fear has not been realized in our experience inn--Mentersy, Park. We have had our program underwayfor some 1-1/2 ye are now and not once has there been an .adverse remark .i-Some tom' attention aaencerning the over officious attitude of any' of the lay people involved in our PAU program. We call. it :PAGE. 4 Puublio Anti-Orime Effort. I would invite any. of ua gentlemeno to ing,uizl of any Of Our citizens, .whether it is th6 publisher of .the local paper, ouur ministers or whomever, about the attitude of tha, communityn about the people involved in this effort. Actna,llya too l,ong, we have waited in flaw snfarcement to ask . for this kind of assistance of ouur • citizens. We know in analyzing statistics that the .great bask of Qarirge committed today is not the real rofsaaionala not the guy that plans on going Out and committinga cr ms, but the opportuunisto Unfortaanatel�s an & I think tragically- when we as citizens heave keys inn our oar and ,allow -our children to leave their bioyaa.l ss out in the .front lawn instead of in the back yard where ,Fide can protect its when . we as citizens. fail to take measures to safe -guuard our prop.erty9 we are, in a, aones ®antribuutiag tag.. this type of crime. .a think to.98ther9 shouuller to : shouu7l.dery both citizen and Polies, can be very successful. I think this kind of a program is an. approach in that dirsotion and I womlld like to offer that for your consideration. Thank yen. Reverend Konrad Roosmann I might say I have read through the Pastor, Christ Lutheran Church report.and I felt that the report was one that was primarily interesting, and that the. graatest interest. was tad, give; information to `the people. so the, pecplle apt the community might know what they.. should do. I, think the ascend problem is the apathy of our oommunnitga as most Comm ,ties of today, and that this problem should not only be a police prob�sm butshould a71ao. ianvolLLve the people and bs a community protlem. This is the problem that every church has and which is aaonotantl;r laid to church people = that they really don't ..involve ...th mse7lves _in . daJ ng what the say they want. to Ae.. low we .want. a - commumity .to ...day- what .a .wall -orda reed ccw®° but we allws _,hays..them with ..uas...d .3 wo.ul® �c�.pl,a......�#,ghut feel I .kno.w that. we can.. have same_ d s_good 24.l.ioe epat-6;ant know hbw to a'rold. auk ra�.bllem._.in. this regarL To Y. way of t �tt �r umgy involtved :and. youur �pe� ple ianvol red .o dmthings, yo:ua� ak them to do youu &Dave the ranee real5ll. won. One of the remarks ,.maeds ..of people that. -da not .atta ..Zhura .IS that "well. 1 don° t t t® to c h ... c t ' era. are so . ocrit.es there" .and.... easy . war. ewe , a is all ays .re.o orV =e .more, � ,We waauald_Aika °far ...mmake ,this a.. 'not .a c zmmauunit .of �� ocrites� ,but a o6mmuunity really interested Ili s000 ;aplliah�ng wha we a�& our representativee to do. =l5a ADJ. C, Co 9-18-67 Page Sixteen PUBLIC MMING A C.EoA.CoB. o Cog:tinued Harry Kaelin As you probably .all, ]snow, or don't know, 611 So.. St.Marlow I'have retired from the military and I West Covina do believe in protection. Our individu4l protection does not start..here at homes but out at sea, and far north to Alaska m by your government. .,Arid gets back to your State, your State furnishes you.the National :Guard and your State Highway Patrol. and State Polices your County furnishes you Sheriffs and the. City furnishes -you Police. All this is to protect the: individual resident ® men They are all out there working to. protect me:.. The number of police we have in nest Covina is based on the desire and need and,the area they have to cover and the ability to support them to give.them.a fair.salary,.and I tank this should be supplemented by volunteer Americans. I am for this program. Phil Wax I would like to go on record on belIalf 1014 W. Garvey of many of .the. merchants of the community West Covina with regard to the fine police work and protection and -.understanding that we are trying -.to developamong the merchants and in many cases that the courts are too busy to give proper information to these merchants; and who eventually lose respect for the laws that are based on technicalities at the court level and the police, in educating the merchants in proper procedures, could certainly make many of these cases effective. I know of many instances where merchants have made citizen arrests for :shop lifting and yet when the cases come before the courts they are put in the form of legal technicalities that void and .eliminate, so that the merchants have lost faith in the courts and law and they don't press these instances anymore. The same with bad checks. There are many • areas where there is a strong need for an educational program, by the police to the business people of .the community, Thank you. Al Jordan I would like to speak on this particular, 1.623 3. Prancisquito subject because I..have grave doubts on West Covina some..of.the ramifications- especially in the area of control. I have listened to the preliminary report and attended the meeting recently of the three officers involved - Chief Holliday. Chief Perguspn and Chief Sill, and I am not convinced thaV..1here: is enough . oontteil involved. Ii— this gartioular program.. I pointed out . at this,partioular meeting.in Monterey Park,.where this is in operation, I had information that some of .the citizens have aotually been involved In this particular program such as someone calling a citizen living there a'nd I presented that: question to Chief Hmlliday and the answer that I got on that was that the Police Departmezit would take any problem of that sort under consideration. I don't think a City like West Cov�Aao approaching a population of 100s000 in the near future. needs this type of operation within the City. I am mindful of_.the .faot that we need some control of crime but certainly not in this form. My r®osmmendam tion to this kind of ,aotivity, instead of repudiating Ito and not ding along with the idea, e keep the idea but I re.00mmeAd, that,, a.. olioe Commission of citizens representing business education and a cross section,of this oommuuity be formed and 7cat ;hey be responsible to. the council our erected officials. In this way we can have some t of :*Gatroi .and youu.iaaa ..put gout best brains forward .to ..hal.p. solve this, :P1 gas in our oomm ty. This Adviser Council o = crt to this ffit °a � ve ,ttha r ttso �� te s oa .. I woLuld, like to see this type of Ccmmis.sicn established with the ur, ose of educating the public to give the -olioe .muse .support. a .have talked to. chief gill person,ally and a have talked tohim on numerous ocoasio.ns and I have been involved in 14,w enforcement i this .vallsr working in t tepaartioular area, a am Drese l it i t o . str ®t Attc=210 s y ouno 1 Q so I Piave one o le e o e ro em n ho s. ®. es ©o'unty. I,request this council to give serious consideration do not lam• o O.. a. 9-18-67 Page Seventeen PUBLIO 'HEARING o G.Z.A20jo b Co tinued accept this present form of anti -crime by the citizen, but instead make this an adjunct,to a responsible group. This is suggestion on this particular program, • Rev. William Key I want to say that I think we are very 1125 Soo Holl-enbeck fortu to to have a.Chief of Police in West Covina our community such as Ohief Sill., I think the Ohief bows I.feel this way, but. I would like to know how I became involved in this and how I.became interested9 against all .the advice from very important peo.ple,.An the community to stay away but I.feel that'I have to speak and I will speak no matter what happens to me. I think we have an outstanding police force and I would like -to -see it stay that way. The first I knew about this -was when. I was called by the L. A. Times to: -get my reaction to what was going on and I didn°t.knew what was going ono because I was on vacation at the time. When explained to me., I gave my reaction. I have been misquoted„ not bythe papers, but by others in the. community,: I called Chief Sill and I told him.that this.reaotion.was...going.to happen in the paper and I thought he should be the first to know my feeling,. Three of us m ministers ® went down to task to Ohief Sill, -I am willing and. at that .time offered my times: the facilities of my parish, eto,, on any educational program float .the.Chief wanted to, put on but this was not an educational program, .Lt.-that time the whole thing revolved abort another point which.we will get to later, We went- away9 and at least I can only speakfor myself, completely • confused as to what this program was. I had offered my time and the facilities of my parish for an educational program o this program in this report that.the Ohief has made, there is no question about it whatsoever with one exception. There is nothiaug.in here that anyone in this conmmmunity cculd ob:eot to .with one. ezpeption, not one thing, I might go furtherand say there is not one thing listed here except in one instance,, that any reputable police force in'the.Vnited States wouldnet went to do and I don° t think they would need the advice or consent of the Oity ,Oduuncit to .do "I., think. they wo-ug7ld ..already .eve the permission to. do it, Yurthers, ,I th k .that_most of the things ]Listed .here are _b.e.i ..done eery effootivelLy by the Ohief of Police in this oommu nit , There is only one thing that is bothering many people who don°t have Ne coinage of their convictions to stand here tonight and take the.gaffand that is I don° t know what you callll it oitizens- participetion or watchers for orimag or whatever it may be o I don't know what crime is? is it taking a bioyc-1efl or what is it'd That has not been decided but whatever it is this is the problem. I• feel very definitely and without questiin that If we involve oitisens:,4e crime watchers in this community we.are dividing,, we are fracturing our community, we are creating suspioiom in our community and no longer can we expect to have a, community in the strictest seas.; Now I m a military mantoo. and I don't want., citi.zens to take guns and protect uus. If we need .ore policemen, -let ° s get -more policemen. I. will be glad to accept are inorease .in _my taxes to .get .more...polioemen,. The.. rotection of" this community is so im ortant it sheunl,d not be placed In t e hands .of. civilians,,, I for one will go on record as being willing to, accept an Increase in.my taxes so that ws may i ve professicnals do • the job and..lat the civilians do. the educating and not be watchers, In my own commmunitys and I happen to be in the community of which three of you sitting before mop live. We live in a lilywhite oemmuunity, I. am thinking of the raolal tensions today. I.dono think a minority o 17 a Page Eighteen PUBLIC --EURING - 0. E.A. C. E. -, 0 ontinued group can come in -to, our City and walk down the streets at night without. beings - picious and if we had crime watchers,! know and 1- think,others...here know what would happen. My parish h4ppens to have more and more each year of the-minority,groups andl-they are most welcome. They are invited to.my home and I can tell you, gentlemen,, • I will do, everything in my power to protect their rights within our community and free travel to my home.. If there is any harassment I will do everything within my power to see that this ,iastopped. This is' no new problem within the communities around us and I think. it is a very serious thing and.1 think when we bring the civilians ing in the position they are wanted hereg we are going to.get people who are not qualified.and will never be qualified, regardless of the training'we give them. How many people that try outfor the polloe tests are accepted.? There are many- turned down because they are. not. competentp yet we *ant on the same hand to train citizens to (.n reline detection and lay this responsibility upon citizens ',who probably . ' L" ,.A:aftdtgrasp this knowledge and cannot be sensitive to the problem before us.. I want to.live in acommunity where it is truly in the .,strictest and most meaningfullest extenta community. I can See only A fractured community by the program that is before us.. .Everything the Chief wants, he. can get. without the permission of this Council,,! think, with the exception of the watchers of crime. I may be mistaken but the Rotary GrGup,.o;f which I am a membot', now -has #1500, in the budget for a mobile unit to be used for educational purposes for the Police Department., Now the only thing .I can see that is not now being.done and should notbe done by this.Department is that which Chief Sill has requested and I oppose and.the only thingl-oppose.in the program is the crime watchers. ,Joseph Madott As .,a citizen and having lived for the .220 Gernwo.od past fourteen years in West Covina and West Covina as a member of the Optimist Club in West 0ovii1a and for whom I also Speak., I think we have the finest police Chief in the Country and I think all citizens should be behind `him 190% with the Program as the Chief stated. Thazk you. Rev.. Charles Simmons I would just like to make it clear that 22,09 E.,Greenirille Ep400a-vpal ministers aren't the only We.st Covina people that have some insights, Lutherans also, l.undsrstand. I appreciate seeing Police care In the church parking lot of the Methodist Church, I'jappreciate , our Chief of Police. I. lived next door to him for awhile and he was. very tolerant. of our children and I think the police are doing a.good Job and I.don. t think it is a relavent question - this raising questions about the program casts, any aspersions on the police force In anyway. I do think we must always be aware of the.question in someway Inferring that citizens have some kind of police force in themselves. I.tbink that obviously it is 'wary clear that any of us can call the police at, anytime. and we are encouraged to do this and this is good, It seems to me that it merits real consideration to lookinto the poldsibility of some kind • of Commission which, would be responsible to this bo-dyo, I think this isa very different thing tb&nL giving people a feeling that they have some special relationship to the Police Force. I was reading today in O.P. Snow's book, - "The Variety of Men" of the insights there concerning some of the4eouliar people that have had great contribution to our society,, men like Einstein - and I think of the rebellion that waft Ur Einstein as to what he saw as a developing police state.. We wouldn't have that here and I' don't think any of us feel this is developing,, but Z don't want'our citizens to feel they in anyway do which in have a part in,something someways has to do with citizens 18 .A.W. . C„ a'.. 9-18-67 Page Nineteen. PtT�IM— I] Cn . �pC., o C®nt trued having police powar,; I am opposed to the program.. Watson Krause- I feel; also. very. comfortable living •1238 B. Workman,here - I live in the County o of West Covina having the. Police oars tour up. Workman, I feel some misgivings I went to the opgn panel discussion the .o;ther evening and I , found all three, of t ] Olioe Chiefs very helpful- but L do have a. particular concern in the same area that. Pather Key , has in relation to our minority groups and this is moving L closer and closer in many areas, The very area Prano.isquito seo.tidn where there is going to be, some difficulties, where. whites are moving out. and negroes. are becoming more towards the black side because the realt®re are, moving people away from this particular area and the, realtors are, moving the nsgroes in and so we are going to have some, problems there.. I am a professional man, a teacher and artiste I have :great: respeot in the profession - a. believe well mean a;g people can c,auuse a lot of difficul.ty. I. feel we should have more. police If we need them and I would be willing to pay the , hike in taxes. I have qualms in this area too, this Particular area About citizens lcoking over each other. I think it could cause some problems4 I. have definite misgivings there, "1 Ernest Kara according.to the statistics which have 1019 Parlington St. already been brought. here before the West Covina Council-- crime is increasing -rapidly.. He indicated the crime rate s inoreasing four times as fast a►e the population, and I think it is time the citizens of West. Covina did their part., try to stop this thing, that is continually -snowballing and -getting larger, I had a bad experience recently, while on vacation my home was broken into and several articles of personal; equipment had been stolen from my home4, so this is very close to mee When first 'brought out in the papers. I have_fallowed- It very closely and I sincerely believe the program could be of help. I only wish on June 4th I had a crime watcher watching m house q I may still have a radio.and Tg that I don't now have, Marry .Steele I feel; that the Chief is -asking, for 1914 10. Cortez help and even though McAterey Park has West Covina started it and advocates it ® and. I arrived late so I didn°t hear it all, but I think there is a reason for our 041ef asking for help and I would like to support him, Patricia -Rademacher Speaking_, as a me,ther of five children 3310 Petunia Drive I think we definitely need this program, West,Covina If.you have little children you will see the need of it, especially if you are. living at the lower end of the CitTVI where there are a greatnumber of children and they weed protection and •I don't mean the policing as described here tonight but the . normal protection that you would expect if someone was going: to harm your child or destroy your property. The normal thing that a person oonoerned about their City would do and that is all,they are asking = for the normal, thing„"that any citizen would do and should,do.o 19 vj Page Twenty t- J�OLI2_::VA-JIEG OZ2A.V3 Cori 9-,-�Au&d Louis Fine 1 would like to say this that. first, of- 1,.RlO $0. Ratinhoo.1, all Zam opposed to the proposed plan, West Covina; I think what we have to do is be a little bit subjective in our thinking.. If we are -O'Tojective: then -naturally we • are going to say we want everything we can got In the way of protection but the question is - - is it going to to protectionT I.think that personally, althoug'4.1 would like to see, as Mrs, ' Rademacher said, everything accruing to me thatI could get 9 11 ys'go't to *�_Aah, (out - for the possibility of an encroachment an my rights as an individual and .on, anyone else's rights as an individual. I would go, along with the gent1aMan_.who ..sAid.#e would not mind paying taxes for a need in this City. If the need is, for more police protection in the way of survellismoe,, then I think that, is where our point of approach should be and not In a civilian. police, force. I. think we would be lending ourselves to very dire coxaeq�xancas-if this program.- were to. be. followe&O Porsonall,y, I would prefer to see .mere policemen on the force who are professionals in this type of work in oqurverillaaoe, and although pride myself on this kind of, approaahp I would sayjjAs- I wo would not be favorable to putting myself in a position f,", paying survai112ance on my neighbors. Sometimes neighbors are not what you .expect them to be - but 1don't want to be in aposition of where I am doubting those that live around me and those that live,in the community, and .-po.aiibly those that are going about for one reason for another on peaceful and very reasonable, intent. I don't think that-the.plan, as I could understand it, would lend anything. - to the benefit of West Cvvinap Z think it would actually act. to, the detriment, of West Covina,. Thank you. .There being no -further public testimorT " Gounollman Gillum moved that the Public Hearing be closed. Seconded by Councilman-Gleqkman and carried, COUNCIL.--DISOUSSIUN Councilman Gillum.3, I can. understand the concern, it eon- Berns me the same way asyou .people who.have expressed yourself in the concern of a. Police. State. I know of people in our oomviguity. who have lived under such oanditions, but what.really concerns me -is that we as a City or Nation, have a tendency to turn our 'back on our fellowmen in time of need. The average citizen says -T don't want to become involved.. I tbink, it is 6ur.place to become Involved_, I think there is some misoonooption and mis--ideas about this program ram or maybe I Interpret -the program the wrong way. I have seen -many instances in the paper where the average citizen has said - 1, don't want to tecome invelve,doilk,ig not ky, p;L%ve1W Z tht.nk it, is our tLeaso.l. T. am camearxel by the. statement made about -guns in tke hands. of citiza'as and I- find no place In here where it states. this Ravo Reverend Key I didml,t say that enno ilman 41111=8:Te-11 you inferred kere - a seotien ab=t. *itliens _haTing guns Reverend. Key I didmll:t Mayor Kriagers Gentlemen the public....bearing ..is closed -Reverend Key -and Councilman Gillum unless YOU have a specific question., - 20 . C.. 0. /y 9-18-67 �h p Page Twenty-one PUBZIC M ARING m .Z.Ao0o3e m 0Q� ,Minusd Councilman Gillum, I &pal ogize. There was a point brought up about spying on your neighbor, and the way I interpret this program, and I think it is something we all do possibly unintentionally, and that is observe certain things and if they don't fit into a pattern or don't belong in our -area, I think that if we were informed on some of these things as the gentleman stated, it would be of help. I know when I leave I inform my neighbors that I am going and I inform the Police Department. I know of many cases in our community that trucks have backed up to a house and cleaned it out while they were on vacation and the neighbors thought it was for repair pr something of this type. This is ghat I see in this program. I also questioned the Police. Chief, on this question of the busybody, because this concerned me greatly. As stated by the Chief of Monterey Park, there are people of ihis.typa, and they are aware of these people in the community because they call, in,now they don't have to have a program to call in. They call in now about their neighbors so they are. well aware of.these people in the community. T am sure the Police Chief, and this Council, would not, allow a program of this type to dbvelop where we would have citizens watching their ,,neighbors across the street, I am strongly opposed to anything of that type.. I think every man has a right to do as he pleases as long -as he is within the law. This program is not to. spy on your neighbor but to be aware of the things that happen in the community. We have a similar program going on in the school district where they have a house designated in a block with a red sign where children can run in if they think there is something wrong - they go to the house with • the red sign. They have been told that the house with the red sign is a house that they can go to if something concerns them. . I ego think what has been proposed here of using the PTA, and the School boundaries might be a better idea than what was originally proposed as far as individuals being appointed or volunteering. 'I' do t Jxk we' have to do, something because the criminal element In this Country is so organized that in many cases they run many things in this Country that would shook.all of us if we knew of the people involved in these things. It is fine to say we should put on more police officers but I don't think this City could afford the number of police officers it would take to.give complete protection. And all the Polioe Department is wanting to do in this case is educate the community to such things as -look your car. I think we see this with the L. A. bumper stickers = - lock your car - remind the citizen of the things he should do to protect himself.. I don't believe this is anything directed at having one neighbor spar on another, or tearing our community apart in chosing sides. I would therefore wholeheartedly support this program because I think it is something we need. I am sure the Police Chief has outlined it in a way that if there were things developing that if it got out of hand - this council or any future council would see it stopped at that time. I am strongly in support of individual rights but. I think we have, to do something on this complete crime thing or it is going to be completely out of hand, as in Washington and New York.- where they can't walk down the street dnd I don't want to see that happen in our community. • Councilman Snyder, I don't pretend to know all the causes of crime or why, it is .on the increase, but I do know somethin§ about crime because as a doctor we don t only treat people medically but we also treat them psychologically. Basically, the total criminal is one that has no ability to really understand what he is doing to the other person and there are all degrees of this. I think some of the reasons for the increase in crime _i n.. this Gauntry _.end. this City _is .number one: A. failure of respect of law, which is really what this Nation is founded on - respect for law. There are Nations where you can live where it is acceptable to pay off the police and it is acceptable to do things that in this Country 21 - ADJ. Co Co 9-18-67 Page Twenty-two PUBLIC HEADING ®.0.BoA.C.E. Continued are considered criminal. Also in a crowded society, in attempting. to be individuals we sometimes lose a feeling for the other person, also the increasing promiscuousness of our moral standards, not only on a local basis but on a national basis and the change of the public, image of what is a good American and the.advertising that comes out. selling us sex and lioentiousnesa and so onfl in the movies, televisions etc., whereas in actual life this sort of thing is not permitted,. I' think many of the problems that cause the increase in crime in our community are caused from without, from our national and state change in morality. I think also when people of affluence and people of high position don't behave in a moral or ethical manner then the little person feels he has more of a right to overstep his balance and he is more likely to.get caught. Also the advertising which leads to the materialistic approach in ,our society m all this is. actually philosphy and'not necessarily related to the question here tonight I would like to state -something with regard to respect for laws I don't think the Police or the District Attorney or the Government, in any sense increases respect for law when they make statements criticizing the Supreme.Court decisions wh.ch 'are made in support of the individualand his.rights under the Constitution ® in doing this they tear down respect for law because ..they in themselves are o3fticizing the very laws they live under. Police don°t build respect for law when they don't inform -a person of his::ceps.titutional rights; when they become overzealous; when they harass people unduly; and""this happens sometimes and leads to. further breakdown of the respect for law. Obviously there are. bad. laws that need to be changed, those that: are unenforceable and those against basic.human nature. I do believe this fear of a police. state in this Country, in this City, is a very valid one. It happened to a civilized country like Germany axLd..it, almost destroyed the world and it could happen anywhere. The -fear of over -organizing or a police state, is very real to many people, On Tv the other night I saw a man who is head of a group and he announced they had heads of groups in, every City in Los Angeles County, These_ people all have guns and they stated they cooperated with the police departments if a riot were to occur in the City they,live in - that they would come out ;..and"help the police stop the riots or whatever else needed to be done. r don't think we need e,ny vigilants.gro.ups out shooting people.down* Again I say m this fear is in people, real or not, it does ooc,ur and the danger is there of a police state.. With re-gard to the CEACE program, I think the educational part of the program is meritorious. Por instance, just down the street from me., somebody -pulled up a truck and emptied the house out and the woman next door was hanging her blinds, she saw the.whole thing_ and didn't think.anything..about it. and didn't think to call the police, so if we have --an educational -program and people were taught to be more aware thatthese things happen, then perhaps. it would have occurred to this woman to call the police because in this case it wasn't that she didn't want to get involved, it just didn't occur to her that. anything was going on. I am wondering though if the -CEACE program is merely a deterreat.or does it also offer some plans for a cure?. Also is it aimed at crime from citizens without our community or within? As it is laid out I believe it is more to prevent the outside criminal from coming in: and to.stop the nonprofessional opportunist type of criminal that takes cars that have. a'key left in and. I..support fully the _educational, portion of this program including the two officers assigned to this, program. I also support its ® 22m ADJ. 0. 0.. 9-18-67 Page Twenty-three PUP�IO •,. ING .-4 0.� A.0 �_.-_ � 0®nti�lu�lC�d activity being used. -through already organized groups suchas. the PTA, but I` would abject if the people were appointed with the setting up of individual people Into committees, or commission to carry out this program. We already have the mechanism through the PTA and perhaps. other org,aamized groups,, to bgih` the educational paw. of the program. I think community involvement reads to a degrease in - crime because, it leads to the.awareness of the other individual, and as .I pointed Cut in my initial•definition - if a person has an awareness of the other individual he is ]less likely to commit a crime agaiast him. Por that reason I,.go a7long with the program through the'PTA or other organized groups.. P.ouncilman Gleckmans Ohief Sillg at the meeting you had with the AOLU which program was presented to them - the original program that was presented to the council previously or the PTA suggestion?, Police Ohief Sills, The original report was discussed. Oouuncilman (le,okman8;: Not the follow=up?; Police Ohief Sills No.. O•ouunoilmaxale4kman8 I would lake to make a few comments. I believe the respmneisility of the electedoffioials is to try and wort •coot a program .t7mat is for the -best; Proteat'LoAI of the people and at the sans time something :that is desirous ' that they can live with', I think this prograt'has probably ,been Misinterpreted from the bsgihning. With all due respect to the remarks in .the newspaper, I don't think':. that the qu9stions asked ofthe citizens in this dommunity were asked by .the 0hief of Police in connection with his program., but by .the newspaper reporters opinion of what'the Police .Chief. might try to do and what their reaotioh would be.and I think this caused all the fuss regarding this program to start with. ,I reviewed the original pro.gram.that was given to us by ,QkIef' Sill and with the exception of the term °block chairmen" m I thought it was an excellent program,. I thank this is a particular instance whore a staff the Chief of Police _, •,has., core tc. the* .Oity Council,and said ® I have a way I fe®I we cam.. out the crime rate .in the Oity of Went Oovina. After all .who is he ette90ing to cut the trims rats for? Not particularly the P.olio•e. -Department but for the' citiZsne of 'tom-: oom nity, Too many people are first trying look at what is Wrong with -the program..rathet• than what is � od bout the program. .I don°t think a crime watcher is going to be in the right: location at tba right time when a crime is committed anyway. And I don°t think that isthe purpose of.thie.program o'-to have a crime, watcher. Because if youselect one person in a; particular area he can° t have five hundred eyes watching five hundred homes watching five hundred neighbors and ready to report to the polic,e.all day long as to what is happening -dLn .the hoar by the hour in his. oommuunity.. I' thank this is ridiculous., I dorm:° t thinly you could take all the nuts in our commuaaity as well. a6L all the good people in our community that Would even vo7luunteer for a program and get one every ton bllm.cke to participate in .this programs When people are .concerned about them watohing . each other and watching the neighbor there has'.go.t to .bar something there to watch yourne bor for. I. nit think a,nyb®.. vaul.unteer for thi program. would try to seek ouu what. is wrong v, everyror on e block and. ever body In the area.so they could be a hero the obief be do olive work. I do t think we have a Police 1De artmy would that of Police or t e Pol io.e :Ne tment. I'f .°ghat were the case izug p ' tment that is so ignorant that it is not aware of who the nuts are �n our oommmuunity ,ind that soems to be. the ,concrete .ebb ection .of everybody that p23- ADJ. Co C. 9-18-67 Page Twenty-four PUBLIC. Ilse C..I..A.e �' Continued talks about this program. Who is going to be the man that is going to be responsible to the Ohist,of Police or the Police Department, who is.going.to report as for something I didn°t do. I dong.t think that the citizens that object to this program have sat down with the. Chief of Police and actually said to him m I'don°t want this nut on this program, therefore I wouldn't.go for it. They have said, regardless of who. it is, we donat need this and if we don't need this then rime would not be on the uprise, people would be more aware, as Dr..Snyder said, is far as the ultimate program is concerned it is. excellent. I am sure that there isn't anybody in this room that knows all about the things they should ordinarily know in order to protect their own homeand property. I am talking about when they go on vacation, when they see something suspicious - they wouldn't know the first Ming to do unless..eomebody reminded them. That is all it is, an educational program. The five. City Councilmen elected here are .elected at large and they are here to represent you. If you think that. one of the five sitting up. here would tolerate a nut program ® then you have the wrong five people up here. As far as creating a new Police Commission, I -think it -is a good suggestion, but I am sorry to say we don't want it in our community. You have. five capable City dounoilmen here who I am sure receive enough phone calls from irate citizens that they don't need another Commission to set them off t= I think the City Manager who runs this City and who the Chief of Police is responsible to, has. enough o.ommonsens.e to keep_.'his fingers on the programs as vell, as all the.. tither people the. Chief of Police, the Qaptains, Lieutenants, Sergeants, etc. I have more co.n idenoop not only in your elected and appointed -officials but in.the...police themselves to direct a program of this type for one reason only to protect the citizens of West Covina. Now if there is anybody that objects that, the citizens of West Covina need and should and could have more protection then you are living in the wrong community. As far as the way in which it is done ® all the objectors have come up and saidg leave it to the generals and here are the generals telling us and coming up with advice telling . us how,. -to get this program done. So on one hand you say, leave it to the generals,, but dealt have the generals,,, have anybody not a professional engaged in this program;, I don't think there is a program that could.change or ruin this City -with the make-up that we have in our community and I for one am willing to give it a chance and an opportunity before I shoot something down, because there 1sn°t. a program that could be introduced in any community in the United..States that you wonIIt,find fault with providing you didn't give it a chance to get off the ground. So, .Mr. Mayor, after talking to quite a few of the citizens and receiving both pro and con phone calels, I have found.that the complaints against such a program has more to do with equ,atin& this community with Nazi Germany than with any other constructive criticism that has come about due to this program and when it comes to minority races, I can only say that we as a Council, and we. as a community, all have. to live together and I am sure if the Chief of Police received a phone call tomorrow that there are 3 negro bays walkingdown the street and .I, don t like it that theywould g.et -the same reaction as that there are 3 fellows walking down the .street and I don't,like it. I have never found our police in any manner, shape or form m that race, religion or any minority groups should have to take, a backaeat to any treatment that has ever happened in this community. I think they are aware of the situation. I am proud of our Police force. I.am sure they will treat any minority race no different than --any other citizen in this community regardless of who calls to makethe complaint. If we don't have that type of Police Department. then we .should do something about our staff and Polioe De artment9 but not the program on which we compared on the basis of Nazi ermany. =24m ADS. C o C. 9©18-67: Page Twenty-five PUBLIC HEARING.,- 092o1.C.E. o Continued Councilman Nicholso I would like to direct a couple of questions to Chief 'Sill. In the report that I have before me, the report that Captain Ryan read this evening, there was a section near the end, page ® a "Upon seau'ring support from the District Superintendents, invite the School principals and PTA prewldehts to a workshop meeting:,.eto.." Now in this report. I' don.t believe there is any enumeration of the program except the general statements early in the report which indicates the dissemination of information. My question then is do you envisage. any role of the school principals, the PTA presidents, the PTA,.members, citizens attending the mceeting, other than that of a passive or ,redeptive -role? Police Chief .Sills No,.I do not.. 'Councilman Gillums I have a question. Someone said to_ me that he. would lake to have directed to the Chief. It was asked if the PTA are going to be the. liaison group for this program what about the total, population of the apartment areas p they would have no school ads6 iation? How would the people be. selected for watching over such living areaaB I think this gets back again, that we are not asking anyone to watch over an area we are trying to direct information to them. Is this, correct? Police Chief sills Yeso the principle purpose of the area • representative is to work with the Police Department in securing the people In the area in which he lives to attend'a mestiug.where the Police Department will come in .with visual aida,.movies and discuss how to protect themselves. How they can keep their prope:tty from being stolen, their house broken into, bicycles from being stolen and so on. Councilman Gillums the point I am trying to. get to I know of many apartment houses that are adults cry, without any association with the School district, How would these people be brought into this thing? Have YOU thought,,of a way to bring, these people in? Police .chief Sills I ..don,' t think any of these. apartment areas of which you speak are so ]Large or so complex that they would not be brought under an area where there would be PTA members. Councilman Gillums, In other words what you are going to' rely on in an apartment complex is a PTA member go iM about informing the people that this is the program and will be held at suoh; ,and such a place, Police. Chief Sills Yes, if this is the program you approve, that will be the way, we will. handle its Mrs Aiassa, City Managers Mr. Gillum, you are probably referring to the areas that have. no children. I believe in most of these areas you do have teachers living in s; artmentsn ,ad, t3y ,do We ;fan mael a, note . of it and pay speo kl, attent"i.on to thass areas,, 0 Police Chief Sill-, As mentioned earlier, there is also the possibility of having. civic .,groups and or ani atigs a ticipate, W m y ind a member of one of these groups w 1 ve n to area who. wi�l �an a it for us, �, 25 AD;s C° .C°. 9.18-67 Page Twenty-six MIoIO N o .00dti.A.0,19 � gatdb3Aued. councilman Nicholas Much of what you advocate in the program. you have attempted to do on, a modest scale in the. community. I. wound like to _preface my question with a comment that someone already mentioned that youhave the full authority to do. all of these things that are listed here. I suppose technically within the charge of._youur duties . you do, but I think functionally you need a great .deal, of support frem the Council as the .policy setting body in the community to expand such an operation to a soale,of this type which you have obviously not been able to do because of certain limitations especially with the question where you indicate you wil place two. officers on a full, time assignnment..in. this program. .I, know you only have a few officers ser1lng.oc.casional time as they are able to take time from other regular assignments no'vs and as far as the Council°s role is concernedo I can see the. possibility of a dollar role developing here. I'f the Council approves this programv would you then be reoommgaiding to the City Daa4ger the employment of two.additional offioers. immediately to replace the two men who would become. full: time in this program'. Police Chief Sills That was not our idea. No., Oouxnoiiman Rohols.o Do you feel that, you could move through this. fiscal year on the program 'with the -pres®nt staff? Police Chief Sills. %es9 I believe.we ooulda because hopefully the ends of this program would. Justify the use of the. two - offioers and perhaps more would be gained because of greater citizen concern _in this area° Councilman Nichols" Thank youuv. that is all..° Maygr Kriegers I would like to compliment. our fellow - citizens. in Nest Covina who have come down tonight to , present. their° views. on.. this program I think part of the objeotive of the'program.itself has. been a000ngplished by virtue of the discussion within the . oommuunity and. some of the comments that we have heard this evening in genera, having. to do with this type. of program. The lresident.°s commission which reported backe and was a nonpartisan -commission by the wayo in, their report "The' 0hal.lengs of Crime in a Pros SooistyQO is a very enlightenim and illuminating document. Iwish it could r oo,sive broader circulation:and more public attention then it has received. I. think the Chief'. in his proposal here is tryingto. implement certain.of.the,proposals.of a very distinguished commission created: under theauthority .of the President. However,- galling your attention to the title of tbs. report - BQThe Challenge of Crime in a Free, Sooietyr°. I:.think. we have .to. be concerned with both aspects.. The challenge, of crime ..and .the free .sooie.ty....and we..._don° t .want any..program that oures :the dice-ase --and kills the people. I am quite sure that those .whcu make law, enforcement their profession are eqquuall concerned with -the-health of the patient as well as the oure of the disease. If not they should get ouxt. of law enforcement. .Looking to the, -merits -of the program itself t seems to,, me the ma'-or:impetus is ii the field of publio. n 'orm�t on$ and education. This is sadly .looking in our very oomplez-and aooelerated society and this Yeas been stated here this avi,nin5° i ie nst yicient deL�gate to ain blue linehe a ens of.he so a n, general ° requ res, a awareness o. =26- ADd, C, Co 9=18-67 Page Twenty=seven PUBZIC.'HEARING ® C.E,A.C.E. Continued individuals,, in fact all it requires in many instances is -to -be advised as to what the rights of the citizen historically has always been in the United States, not only their righta but their duties,, • their responsibilities. So often we place all on the emp.ha&s_on rights and none on duties and responsibilities. I think the progrank itself is meTitorious.as it.calls to the attention .of the citizens of West Covina - their rights,, their duties and their responsibilities,.. .I think it is important to the success of such a program that the vehicle be adapted to. the. merits` of the program.and be one that can receive popular acceptance and popular -presentation, and the, 'erne implementation of the program is to disseminate information from the police to the citizenry. It is not to feed information back up to the Police Department,, except in the individual constitutional role and duty of every citizen without sucha program, and this is what the "Challenge.of Crime in a Pree Sooiety means, not just the challenge of the Police Departments notjust the challenge of the City Council,, or your Government., but .a challenge to the individual. And I. -think any pr.o.gr..am that better equips the individual.to carry out his responsibilities as a member of society is,a step in .the right direction. I am particularly enthused with the vehicle that has, been suggested to this Council for the accomplishment of this programs because I think we have an.established and accepted vehicle operating.now within the community that acts not as a divisive but as a cohesive force in the community that is well equipped,, both by their charter and by their manifestations of programs,, to carry . out s.uoh.a program and to give it the most..widespread dissemination within the community.at..large. I would like to see this program aecepte.d by the .Council and. implemented in the way it has been presented here.,this evening to Aaist the support of the -entire. citizenry and the challenge, to the entire citizenry,, and I.sA .sure - the .entire citizenry wall be the benific-iaries.of this type of program within the community. It is our responsibility.as elected citizens to ohoose-those programs that will be of widespread benefit within the community. As I have.said.before.® there is no one that is prepared to. come.. before. this council.. and say that such .a.:troblem doesn't exist; There are those that have various solutions to the, problem but it is our ultimate responsibility to choose bet:we.en the alternatives that are.available.to us to properly ---implement a: solution to the problem. This, isn't going to be a cure-all, but it certainly,, in my opinion,, will be a natural, contribution to the development of a challenge to crime rather than the. challenge of crime, Councilman Sayder.s Mr. Mayor,,.one additional comment, Eegar.ding., the89Challenge of Crime: in a Pree Society" m and I don't think our problem in West Covina relates to .big .: time crime such as- the --Mafia,, however there were two recent articles in the Life Magazine which detailed and named names of the Mafia organization in this Country.and how they to a certain extent have influence on how movies are made: and how public.1mages are made,, etc. My point is that this in.total tends to.our acceptance of their role in American life is a lowering of the. standards of the American people and our.acceptance of allowing them to make our images for us is lowering. our standards. You said ".The Challenge of Crime in a Pree. Society" was a nonpartisan effort and. it was and is a very meritorious effort,, but in the life Magazine article they also mentioned the document and named the..name of the man.that was lept out of thatreport by direct Mafia efforts, So even that report was.to a certain extent influenced by this group, which permeates our. whele.sooietyo: I. don°t.know what we can do about it In this City except to.co.ntrol-and do. the best we can :for .,our..own citizens, It behooves everybody to read those two articles so you really know what is going on., -270 ADJ. c. c. 9-18-67 Page Twenty-eight PUBLIC'HEARING ® C.E.,A.O.Eo ® Continued_, Mayor Krieger-, Is there further council discussion? A motion would be -'in order. Motion. by -Councilman Nichols,. seconded by Councilman -Gillum,, that the City Council accept and approve the report entitled "Program-Por Citizens Engaged in Anti -Crime Effort" aspresentedto the council this evening,9 and as read to the council by Captain Ryano and that the council further direct the Chief of Police to begin the implementation of this reportand further to keep the council informed,, at his discretion, concerning his progress relative to this directive Motion carried on roll call as follows: AYES* Councilmen Gillum, Nichols.,. Gleckman,-Snyder, Mayor Krieger NOES:* None .ABSENT,.- None MAYOR KRIEGER DEOLLRED A 10 MINUTE RECESS AT 9030 P.M. COUNCIL 1140OMNED AT-9s45 P.M. CITY. COUNCIL_ -REPORTS CORTEZ .PARK Mayor Krieger-, I have one report to the council on the meeting that Councilman Gillum -and .I were delegated the responsibility of situation. checking into = the Cortez Park After reviewing the matter with the. city attorney and the city manage-r and tracing the history of this particular program, it would be our recommendation to the council that no action be taken on this matter by the council at this . time and -that the City Manager and staff be.directed toreporVl back to the council at such time.in the future as they think appropriate, for whatever action may be appropriate at that time in their judgment having,to do with the Cortez Park situation. Councilman Gillum is that basically correct? Councilman Gillums, Yes - . correct.. Motion by Councilman Nichols, seconded by Co'unc.ilman.-Glec-kzan-, and carried, that the council accept the recommendation of the Mayor as a policy guideline. Mr. Aiassa, City Manager: The only further thing I would su gge.st, if agreeable with Council that we acknowledge Mrs.. White's letter of Sept.. 8th. Motion by Counailman.Nichols, seconded by Councilman Gillum, and carried, that council authorize a letter be prepared for the. -Mayor's signature authorizing receipt of the letter from June White -and. indicating that the council does not wish to take action at this time. UNTINGTON BEACH .FREEWAY' Councilman Snyder: For my own information and maybo.1t ... hair - been done. As a matter of procedure- orb the Hunting ton° Beach Freeway it is my, understanding at the time of the hearings on.that Freeway that the City will go in and present our deeirbs as to where we want it and what we want, etc. We have a Blue Ribbon Committee on this and we also have the General Plan working on this, but as a.matter of procedure. is the Blue = 28 - ADS. 9.C.. 9-18-67 Page Twenty-nine CITY COUNCIL .REPORTS ®. Continued iUNTINGTON BEACH FREEWAY Ribbon Committee going to make recommendations to the General Plan, .tho.Planning Commission and the Council, as to their advice as to whore this Freeway is to go or how aloe we going to arrive at a gomsensus when the staff or City makes their request to the State- , 't the proper time of the hearings? It seems to. me at the present time we are going in a couple of different directions. We have a General'Plan which merely advises for one thing, andis subject to modification, We have a Blue Ribbon Committee going another way. I tl nk this should be coordinated if it isn't already. Mayor S.riegers I.know this Committee is Councilman Gleckman.9s, he is the council liaison, but Ithink the first committee meeting was ohaire.d by C-©uncilmaA Gillum. Do you want to respond as far as the work of that committee? Councilman Gillum: Yes ® Dr. Snyder, we gave them an outline.of the areas they should.be considering, taking into consideration the economic impact oM the community. In fact I think this question was asked at the meeting and it is in the.minutes9 would this committee's recommendation when presented to the council in.,November have, a -stvang.:. �Wapt on the council and our answer to. them was that. this. information would be fed to. Williams, Cook & Mocine and the informationfrom the Committee would be - onsidered by Williams, Cook & Mocine,and put into the. General Plan, And, also as Mr. Aiassa stated to them, would weigh heavily on the decision of the council and Williams, Cook & Nocine and even the State people because we have asked and charged these people with the responsibility of investigating all four.areas and making, a judgment of their findings a's.. to the_. best route and .which would do the least harm.and disruption..to-the City and our people that fool there is no need for a.Free,wayt.and:I have,a very strong feeling ghat Mr. Gleckman may -get a minority.report out of this,. But, they were -told and I believe you will find this in the minutes m that their information would be.given to Williams, Cook & Mocine and on their chart the critical path has an area where the information is to be fed into it, Mr, Aiassas City Manager: And they.have to make a special report. Councilman Snyder: There is .certainly nothing.-wrongwith their coming up with a recommendation but my concern is that their recommendation be broad and more polioywise than the detailed planning that..1s going to come from our Planning Consultant and the final decision of the Planning Commission. Councilman Gillum: Dr., Snyder, they will have-availabl;e.to ' them all .the information that -the Planning Department will have and Williams-, Cook '&-Mocine will have up to that point in November, Councilman Snyder:' But they are not planners, Councilman Gillum: Well they are not planners, but;I_think through this c-ommittee -and the three sub -committees, theyy :have that they. will come to a point where they .will realize oertain' things .have tobe because of tax role and things. of this type and all this,,information wi-1-1- be..,given. to them. on their request abd the three sub -committees and formed into a report. There are people. there who could serve with 29 Aw. C. .Co 9-18-67 Page Thirty CITY COUNCIL -REPORTS - Continued HUNTINGTON BEACH .FREEWAY us as Ve_:are_doing-here and probably could serve on the Planning Commission, so I think..they will make.a jy4dgment report on the information available to all of us. All we are asking is for the citizens to review all these facts and make a judgment in the interest of this community. It may come out that they disagree with Williams, Cook & Mocine. Councilman Snyder-, Williams, Cook & Mocine, only makes a recommendation, again the Planning Commission makes the final decision. Councilman Gillum: It is down to us to make the final decision. Mr. .Aiassa, .City Manager: I would just like to clarify the policy of the council on the Blue Ribbon Committees. As you will remember on the City -Wide Beautification, we referred it back to the Recreation & Park Commission and I am presuming the council would do the same thing with the.Huntington Beach Freeway. That is the normal process and I assume this was the.intent. Councilman Snyder: Well it should be. Councilman Gillum: We did inform the Committee that this • report would be given to Williams, Cook & Mocine, but that is all. Motion by Councilman Nichols, seconded by Councilman Gillum, and carried, that the meeting adjourn at 9:55 p.m. ATTEST: city Clem APPROVED: Mayor 30