07-17-1967 - Regular Meeting - MinutesMINUTES OF THE.ADJOURM RBGULAR.MTING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
,city op WEST 00VIN19 OiLIPORNIA'
JULT Us, 196T.
Theadjourned regular meeting of thaDity Council was called to ardor
by Mayor Krieger at 7-37 Pm.o lu the West -Covina City Hall,
Councilman Snyder led the Pledge of Allegiance.
ROLL CALL
Presents Mayor Krieger,, Councilmen Gillum, Nichols Snyder
Councilman Glookman (Arrived,at 7s55 p.m.�
Otheri Prazant,,, George'Aiassa, City Manager
Harry William, City Attorney (Left early)
Oven Mansrd, Planning Director
George Zimmermian,-Ass0t, City Engineer
LeLa Preston, Deputy City Clark
Harry Peacooko Adminiatrative Aide
Chief Allbn Sill
James Kay,, Controller
APPROVING AWARD OF REVENUR BONDS
LOS ANGELES-COUNTY- WEST COVINA CIVIC CENTER AUT ' ITT
(Verbal. report given by Mr. Powell, of stone & Youngberg)
Mr Robert Powell Today the Board of the Los Angeles
Stone & Youngberg County - West Covina Cirio Center
San Prancisco Authority received bids for the purchase
or a OTina,, spoo oilly
the city Hall building, Three bids War* r4asived, Merrill-, Lynch Pierce
.pe-nner & Smith AmBociates submitted a bid offering to -sq at an 9
P annual
filverag: interest rate of 4 88;�%� White Weld & Company offered 4,9377%;
and t Bank Of America 5,.120
W* examined these bido and calculated
their interest rates as aghnaified, found all I to be correct Therefore,
'too,
a andal , n &t f_6jgl'Rtjp,;bAt t�j,Board
an %r no 7 Sp err
Lynchp Pi@rQ8q Fmnner & Szit"t� Associ&t8s a@ Submitted.
We c*lculatad based upon theInterest
ates submitted a annuppl debt service ;1qu1rsd to s�Xp as atabonds.
Reed upon thee& R 0�
igur98 The average rent pa�`mqn
bufficien't,to*9arvics the debt,, would be 02009400 per yea:r. You now,bave
before you the resume of these bids -and the caloulation of debt service
fOr each year,, The first twgysara intsrgNt only is funded from the
proceeds of the bond'salsoo ThS first annual payment because dus.in
Jul 1969 which would cover the first interest and principal
of il-95984?.50. payment
As you can 006'thO P.aYmgnta remain below $200t,000 for
a niimber of, s*ars a -ad then gradually inar(sa6s, Based on our calculation@
the rental figure of 4200 400 will cover all of the rent&, payments and
.all of the debt service ov"ar the entire life of the bonda. There will
of course be interest earninge from invested funds.of the Autharity
dUring, this time. Ther's may come a time at wbich partial rental payments
will be waived, if the Authority ease* fit but I would assume based upon
these figureathay will -establish the rs�ial payments of #2009400
The bids were somewhat bighery
apprOximatsly 1-% higher than estimated. We are in the 'midst of a very
b1th bond marketq last.wersk was the highest week of the year. We
as Imated #198,000 would suffice, it tiamis out it is #20OC14.00, AlthougIZ
the rates are high at this time all things considered you got what We.
feel is a verl good bid There is. q,,xits a spread betwien the high bid
and the low b dq 'apptoRmately #150,000 diffareaasj'� It our
Opinion that the council should adopt tha res6lutiL of avl�da
= 1 -
7-17-67 Page Two
AWARD OF. -REVENUE BONDS Oantinued
Councilman Nicholsi I didn't understand your statement
relating to the matter*of repayment of
the interest only. I understood you to
Bay that in 1969 the first prinaipal and interest paymant would be
made, in that correct? (Anowerg Yes.) On the schedule wa hava it shows
2 years of paT_k#nt8 of intorosst and iin the third year - 1070, shows a
payment of principal and interest. Where have I misraad this?
Mr. You will recall in the initial set up
of the -funds, we would fund the first
.2 years interest from the principal
amount of the bonds or.approximately 0150,000 each year or 03009000
of the bond
. proceeds will*be used for the fi--st 2 years. Th6 first
rental payment will be made an July 1, 19699 thereby creating what
amounts to a reserve in addition to.the one-half year reserve set up as
part of the bond proceeds. You are paying in advance 1 ysar's rental.
Before that year is over a part of that will have been used. Before the
fiscal year 69-70 is over you will make your payment in July of 169,
part of that will 'be used but the remaining fund when combined with the
one-half year reserve fund established from the bond receipts makes up
the reserve fund with the intent you will always be ahead on your
payments. It was the 'intent that the City always be at least from 6
months to a year ahead w'.t]2 regards to the payments coming due in the
following ye�ar.
Mayor Krieger.- We also recognize the presenoe of
Jess Harper., the Secretary of the Civic
Center Authority. Mr. Harper is there
any comment you would like to make?
Nx. Harper-s Like most of them we thoUgtt it might be
a little lower. I watched the boys check
0 the calculations and was am�azsd how
they checked the, bids at the third and fourth decimal, and I was quite
impreased with their speed and accuracy..
Mayor Krieger-.
today and do you have any
Mr. Hodgemang
Mayor Krieger-,
I also notice Mr. Hodgeman from 0 'Melva . ny
and Meyers . is present. Have you had
the opportunity to rOViSw this matter
comments?
make to the council before we
Mr. Lippman-,
Yes I have. I think everything is fine.
Unfort9unatsly we can't control the
interest rates.
Finally I notice Mr. Li;pgan Chairman
of the 8ivic Center Autho'rit,� is present,
is there any comment you would care to
take action?
Thank.YOU Mr. Mayor - no comment.
Maygr Kriegera. Fuxthar questions of Mr. Powell? As I
remember, Mr. Zello-395 presentation,,
although it was in the crystal ball
gazillo area, . he felt we might anticipate
a bid somewhere between 40 and 4-3/4 'This was some months ago and
the market has certainly . been less than c9rtain. An the financial
consultant on this matter,,, is your firm satisfied with the type of bid
re.ceived?
Mr. Powello,
Yes, wo most certainly are.. Cgxplain4d
tho. type of bond bid and the bond market.)
We feel.in light of'to.day's market, the
city a construction bids*raosived,, that you are in a very good position
at this time to ask that the Authority issue these bonds d
the project completg in orler to have
d, We find no fault In 'these bonds whatsoever,
- 2 -
ADJ. C.C. 7-17-67 Page Three
AWARD OF REVENUE BONDS - Continued
Mayor Krieger*, We asked Mr. Zelles a question also
at the time of the return on the
construction bids and that was to
correlate the relationship, if any, between the bids on the construction
and the bids that we might anticipate receiving on the revenue bonds*.
The successful bidder on the.construction contract was something like
11.9% lower than the architectb estimate. Could you draw us any figure
comparison, what the equivalent of that type of a bid as related to the
type of bid we received in our revenue bonds means Jin terms of
'the total project?
Mr. Powello
No, I am afraid I cannot. I don�t
know what Mr. Zell6s's answer wasto
you in that regard, but I don't feel
there is any direct relationship between what type of bids you might
receive with regard to construc,tion because they operate in an entirely
different segment of the economy than we in the investment business do.
When their business is good.it does not necessarily mean the bond
business is good and -the Interest rates lower, in fact it could very
well go in the opposite direction, The fact that you get low
construction bids does not lead to the fact that you will get low
interest rates also. We were pleased with the bids received, we would
certainly like to see bett-er interest rates but the market is what it is
today. We are at the highest market of the 'year. Obviously every dollar
means a great deal, but we have a three million dol.lar project Pt stake
and we have a Variance relatively speaking that iz slight 613 to the cost for
you to readvertise for your construction bids or your bonds in 6 months
from now.
Councilman Nichols- Can you give us a figure that would
represent on the -total amount of the
bonds the amoV7at of the additional cost
,to -the Oity over the life of.the bonds -'at 1/4%2
Mr..Powell.,,, We had estimate based on a 1 4-3/4%
'there would b 830-000 interest cost.
You came up with 42,9il,000 based on the
higher-rate9-roughly $80,000 higher than -what we estimated. J% would
amount to roughly $160,000 over the life of the bonds.
Councilman Nichols,o Thank you. Wa, have a project of some
three million dollars and because of
conditions which you state might, probably
go into -divergent direction5, that io bond costs being more dearer,
construction costs being lower we received a bid of 1'1% under the beat
.estimates available to -us on a three million dollar projecto which
.rePr , GsezPto t1�Lr4a Ixamdred and some thousand dollars, so what you are
t0- OlIng akfect is that the additional J% cost of increased bond
000t1s approximately half of the savings tha-t will aocrue through
a Idwer bid. Is that correct?
Mr,powelloo If there were a j%.
Oounoilmannchois,o The thesis I am posing, is that when this
aoumcil met or inally to discuss this
matter we recelled a projection of the
estimated cOBt of this project in dollars to build it. We received a
proJ60tion of the estimated bond costs.. Those figures came to us at a
time when we were deliberating the wisdom of this...prD-ject and we made
a decision t ah ad based only on those figures we had at that time.
Now in realit7gwoe heave come into a situation With a total bond,cost
4pproximately of $1609000 in excess of our original estimates, but we
have come in with a construction bid representing a savings of over
$300§000 of our original estimate. Now if my analogy i's oorreat I see
in m
.y mind that in. the total picture the costs to the taxpayers are in
fact running less than we anticipated and if we waited for some'-
m�thical time when bond costs might be less we -could very easilysee the
.construction costs coming up far offsetting any savings we may realze.
= 3 -
ADJ. 0. C. 7-17-67
Page Pour
0
9
AWARD OF REVENUE BONDS - Continued
Mr. POW91100 I think that goes without saying. Of
course the determining factor is the
principal amount of the bonds. An
additional $300,000 on the principal ambunt will obviously add
approximately,another 41509000 in interest alone just for the
additional $300,000. So that is t1he number one determining.factor and
the varying interest rates are related to that $150,000 by a few
percent -so that the increment is much-sm'aller in regards to the variance
inthe interest rate as opposed to the variance on the construction cost.
Couneilman Nichols-0 I have.no further questions Mr. Mayor,
and I believe all good wisdom would
indicate that we.move ahead on this
matter.
(Councilman Gleckman arrived at:7855 p.m. Mayor Krieger advised him of
'the proceedings up to this point.)
RESOLUTION NO. 3624 The Deputy City Clork-presentedso
"A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE
CITY OF WEST COVINA APPROVING AWARD OF
REVENUE BONDS OF LOS ANGELES COUNTY
WEST COVINA CIVIC CENTER AUTHORITY."
(Mayor Krieger asked Mr. Williams' if he had any comments he wanted to.
make with regard to the Resolution. Mr. Williams advised that he
would like to advise the council of the composition of the agreement,
that is 'the wording that would be filled into tyhe now blank spaces
of the agreement.. Mr. Williams verbally did so.)
Mayor Kriager.0 Hearing no objection, waive further
reading of the body of said resolution.
Motion by Councilman Gillumq seconded by Councilman Gleckman, 'that the
Council adopt said resolutiori.
Mayor KziegpZ8 For 'the recor,4 Nx. powellg the
insertions of'thesa interest payable
semi-annually then come out to an
average iAterest rate of 4.8834 %. Is 'that CoTMeot? (Answero Yes.)
Any further questions or discussions on the reRplution? Roll call,
please. I
Notion ca;rtied on roll call vote as follows,,
AYESO, Councilmen Gillum., Nichols, Glackmau, Snyder, Mayor Krieger
None
ABSENT& None.
CONSTRUOTION.CONTRACT AWARD
CITY HALL wnA W)T.T NGS
Mayor Xrieger3 We have a staff report dated June 30, 19679
attached to which is correspondence from
Aertrong Neptune & Thomasq and -an
appendage from our City Attorney, Is
there any comment. ?. .(None) Mr. Williams ....
Mr. Williams, Ci . ty Attorney-, I would suggeet a motion to this general
effect - that the City.COUnOil of the
recommend to the Los Angelep City of West Covina approve and
0 County West Covina Civic Center Authority the
acceptance 'f the lowest re6ponsible base bids, including alternatda Nos,
1 - 3 and 59 and excluding and rejecting alternates Nos. 2 and 4 to be
ao'.Oepted and that based upon this premise the bid be awarded to
- 4 -
El
0
.AW. 0. C. , 7-1--67 Page Five
CONSTRUCTION CONTRAOT AWARD
CITY HALL and POLICE BUILDINGS - Continued
,A.-.e�tyo,n, a Division of Aerojet General Corporation, as the lowest
responsible bidder on the bage bid wd alternates 1 - 3 and 5
exe,luding alternates 2 and 4.
So moved by Councilman -Gillum, seconded by Councilman Gleckman, and
carried on roll call vote as followsS
AYESo Councilken Gillum, Nichols, Gleckman, Snydero Mayor Krieger
FOESs None
ABSENTo. None
(Mr. Williams, City Attorney, excused at 8sO4 p.m.)
TITLE INSURANCE POLICY - WEST COVINA PROJECT
ACTION BY PUBLIC AUTHORITY BOARD Informational
Motioti by Councilman Gleckman, seconded by Councilman Gillum, and carried,
'that this information be receivedand filed.
LETTER FROM COUNTY ENGINEER RE. AWARD OF CONTRACT
.FOR CITRUS MUNICIPAL COURTS BUILDINGS - Informational
Motion by CO'Llucilman Gleckman, seconded by Councilman Gillum, and carried,
that this report be received and filed.
ANNUAL AGREEMENT WITH BASSETT UNIFIED SCHOOL DISTRICT
-__O0MMUNITY RECREATION PROGRAM
Mayor Krieger,o We have before us the reportg a.formal
agreement and a recommendation from the
Recreation & Parks Departmentq requesting.
that we approve the agre-ement with the Bassett Unified School District
regarding the Community Recreation Program.
So moved by Councilman Gleckmang seconded by Councilman Gillum, and
'L
Carried on roll cali�vote as follows-,
AYESo Councilmen Gillumg Nichols,.Gleckman, Snyder, Mayor Krieger
ROES
0 None
ABSENTQ- None
A11ENDMENT NO. 81 - SIGN ORDINANCE R-EVISION
HELD FROM Z11OZ6Z
(Mayor Krieger,advised that this was held over from 7/10/67 with the
public portion of the hearing closed. Mr. Alassa, City Manager, asked
'to be excused to attend,the Public Authority meeting, and stated
Mr. Zimmerman, Ass1t. City Engineer would act in his place.)
Councilman.Gle I Ckman,Q Mr. Mayor, I would like to speak to the
fact of the Barber Poles. After doing a
little further investigation I find that
every Barber Shop inthe State of California is required to have a
barber, pole.,,'It is Met a case Of 80mG having and some not having.
I also find that the sign does not move and I believe this could be
controlled administratively. The signifioance of the barber pole is to shcw
when a sbap 'is open and when it is closed. I don't agree with the.
RefNktathInt fitli Rf W,
.a , _phfutttgvjght6jhgoje there jon't be a r
u 0 0 y 0 es a 0 arbers t emselves.We laid
that they have lost business and old customers pass them by thinking
they are closed,, I think this to a necessity as well as a State
tustitution.
� 5
ADJ. C. 0. 7-17-67 Page Six
A10NDMWT *NO. 81 - SIGN ORDINANCE - Continued
Councilman Snyder: I would like to speak with regard to th�a
entire Sign Ordinance revision. There
has been a lot of discussion about the
.,inadequacy of the Sign Ordinance and the necessity for revision but you
go back 8 years to when the Sign Ordinance was drafted and there was
lust as much controversy and I feel that the basic philo4hy built into
the.Sign Ordinance at that time is one of thefactors that in some ways
made West Covina a more attractive City to live in. You can go to many
towns,, on their main street where they have no control over the signs .
you can't see the buildings for the signs because each sign is trying to
outdo the others.
This new revision was instituted partly
from legitimate, but in most cases, not legitimate complaiAte, over the
last 4 years and partly because of the many requ�p 'for v'
.Is we had ariances,
but prior to this time we always felt that by holding the line --on the
sign Ordinance and attempting.to stick within the limitations of the Sign
Ordinance that we gave every merchant a fair and equal exposure and
maintained a better appearing town. In particular I don't think this
new revision liberalizes or opens up the Sign Ordinance with the
exception of the ratios as proposed by the Planning Commission. I would
have no objection to the proposed 0-1 ratiop however the G-2 ratio of
3 to 1 proposed, I disagree with. The C-2 is not by nature a regional
shopping center. I feel itshould have a 2.5 to 1 ratio, and the 0-3
the 3 to 1 ratio. The reason for this is these different types of
commercial centers are of different intensity of commercial type sales
and therefore the purpose of their signs is to attract a different type
of customer. So the size -and ratio of signs should be in proportion to
the type of -customer they are attempting to attract and the region from
which that customer is coming. To open the C-2 up to the 3 to 1 ratio
the same as the C-_3 is again not in keeping with-the.intensity and
density of each commercial area,
In regard to granting -a full ratio on
detached signs on each side,, I feel this gives a greater advantage to
new detached signs than allowed in the past, and I would likete-see.
us strike a-compromlse herep perhaps somewhere between allowing half
the allowable ratio on one side to half way between allowing 100%.
Say 75% of the allowable ratio on each side, which would be a compromise
between openingit up to the full size on each side. '
The one other thing that I think would be
very difficult to implement is the consideration of having.the landlord
sign the permit when -the sign permit is issued. One of the major
complaints was the difficulty in,gettin*
.9-signs and if somebody comes in
for a sign and the landlord iB-out of town or inaccessible then it is
going to make it more difficult for the applicant to obtain a sign.
The abatement procedure written into the Sign Ordinance at present seems
adequate.
As far as, Barber Poles,, I don't, know
dnything about the State Law-, I do feel if we allow rotating barber poles
we at least open up..an argument for a variance on other types of moving
signs. I disagree with you that it hurts their business not having a
moving barber pole,, I was not aware that anybody had barber poles around
town.
descendin Speaking in particular to the ratio, the
.g ratio in the commercial areas and -.also perhaps some sort of a
compromise on the allowable operation on double faced detached signs.
Mayor Krieger-, Let me. : see if I can focus on our
discussion to date. It seems to me�there
has been ,no. serious discussion by the
Council on Planning.Commissi-on Re -solution No. 1966 except in four distiact.
areas. One raised by our City Attorney and that is what legal distinctiQ:4,
6
ADJ. 0. C� 7-17-67 Page-Sevem
REP. XT No. �81 - .31 N ORDINANCE - Continued
is going to be drawn between -the- advertising, sign and the identifying-,
sign. The second being the allowable dimensions on a double faced sign.
Thelthird being the controls of abandoned signs and the enforceability
of such enforcement,, and fourth, is the status and future of moving
signs, with particularemphasis on Barber Poles as a type of sign, and
Time and Temperature and public service type of signs. If this is a
fair summary of the items we are'discussing specifically by this
Oouncilq then I would.sugge-st, if this is the case, we take these items
and try and arrive at a consensus of this council.
First of all, Mr. Menard, has there -been
any Staff action on the definitionof distinguishing an identifying and
a:a advertising sign?
Mr. Menard, Planning Direatoro, I felt from what the City Attorniey said
at the last meeting.that we -would submit
this to him for his clarification and
he would change the termino�ogy, -but we have not done this as yet.
Mayor Krieger-, There has been no discussion between you
and the Oity Attorney since a week ago?
Mr. Menardq Planning Director-. NO.
Mayor Krieger-, This is ex. item we will probably have to
hold in reservatien, which is probably a
more technical qUestion than a matter of
draftmanship for the council. With
regard to �thS,mattex of- 4d.-mb-le -The. aatioAi of the -2-lannimg
COmmissionD -as. it. -has to_us., T-89ardleas of what the
final ratio is decided an for a one faced sign'that would be the total
MaXimum square footage allowance for a double faced sign. Is that correct?
Xr-.*enardp Planning Directo-ro,
0 Correct Mr. Mayor.
(Mayor Krieger then asked the -councilmen to each state his opinion in,
order to attempt to arrive at a majority opinion on each question.)
Councilman Gillumoo I feel that it was brought out in
testimony on the detached or double faced
signs that they are expensivp.. As I
understand it and if I am correct we do have control over issuing double
faced signs. In other words I am saying I don't think anyone could come
in and -request one v-1thout our knowledge or approval and I feel you can
see,03a side of the -sign at a time and if we riestrict them in size
because it is a double faced sign than I think we are restricting them.
as if we were restricting the regular sign on the front of the building.
I for one would like to see -the ratio an' double faced signs the same as
it is for a sign in that particular zone.
Mayor Krieger-O The same per face?
Councilman Gillum.- Yes, the same per 'face. I feel there are
many places a double faced sign is
building and circumstances of required because of the location of the
.this type. I feel if W do say - because
it is a double faced sign we hestrict you. I feel w4eare penalizing
t4a merchant in that area.
Councilman Nicholss
Mr. Menard, please oo*raot me if I a'm-not
Correct. If I am allowed hypothetically
150 square feet for a sign on the front
of the building and I want to bring out a detached sign because of some
- 7 -
ADJ. 0. C-- 7-17-67
Page Eight
AKENDMENT -10. 81 - SIGN 9RDINA101 - Continued
condition and I put that sign out in front of the building 151 for some
reason and I have a one faced only use, is it correct that I am allowed
to put a sign of 150 square feet detached on,that basis?
Mr. Menard, Planning Directoro, I thir�c this was,the intent and . I am just
consideringl'aaw exactly the language to
make sure th 0 intent to there. (Read
from the proposed sign ordinance.)
Councilman Nichols-, Now according to that interpretation
then -I eould.move the sign out 201in
front of a building facing one way with
a sign on one side and have a 150 square foot sign. If.I took that sign
now because traffic,, came the other way. -and turned the sign so It was
perpendicular to the building, I have not changed the size of the
structure of the sign at all,- have I! And persons coming from one
direction can see the writing.on the -sign I have created to advertise my
property but people coming from another direction would see just a big
backside.- on one side - of the sign. I for one,, gentlemen,, cannot see
what is more attractive about . the backend of a sign with nothing on it
or a sign that has lettering on 'bath sidea. In either event the size
of the structure is the same. The bulk that is blotting out the land -
so -ape is the same. Lnd no human being can see but one face at a time
so two faces can be no more abnoxicms than one oi the other, so
therefore to say that one man could erect a sign detached and put words
on one side of it and therefore be allowed to have twice the gize in
bulk than the man that wanted to erect a detached sign and put words on
both sides of itq I cannot see. To me there is ultimately no logic in
that kind of reasoning at all. So it would be my position that in the
allowing of a detached sign that whatever -footage is granted as the
maximum -footage for exposure in terms of signage should be allowed on
both faces of the sign.
Councilman Snyder,-, It is quite true -you can't see two faces
of a double faced sign and it perbapq is
no more offensive in that way, but
however the man is allowed a detached signas--compared to one that puts
it on -the front of a buildirg has -a -double advantage because his is not
perpendicular, it is seen from both directions and , since you are.
recommending he be allowed his. -full ratio 'the sign is.much larger. Now
I agree with you that*the-other compromlse of course, if what the
Planning Commission recommends - is that the allowable space be divided
between the two fronts and I am.offering you a compromise of half -way
between or 75% of the allowable on each side, which would out down the
advantage this man has over the person that is not allowed a detached
sign. If you are going to use logic and there are all degrees of logic,
from TigtianAlization to truth, you can't by any stretch of logic Vay that
the man that has a double faced sign pointing both Vays does not'have an
advantage ever the man who has a parallel sign on the front of his -
building,, And why should we grant a full sized sign pointing both ways
to one person and not another? You are giving an.unfair advantag6 to
that one man and opening up an argueable point -for variance to everybody
else that has, to put their signs parallel.
Councilman Gleckman-. The one thing I think we are trying...-io.-
accomplish is be fair and equitable and
somethin at the same time give the merchants
g they can live with. The rec-ommendation-of a full size on
both sides came from the Chamber of Commerce and' -'they are the merchants
of this community. I am sure they would not propose soinething they would
think is not fair to some merchant, because they are composed mainly of
merchants. that have..rsignS. on the -front of their buildings -and if anybody
was going to be affecte . d by this it wo-uld be the merch�nts that voted or
recommended to thj-s. 00,M n__.and..thJ_s_...Co_uncjl. that- they have. full a1dee
on both sides and. I ca-Wiss1o,
n t think of why they would ask for inequities that
would hurt them more than anybody coming into the city in the future,,
- 8 -
ADJ. C. C. 7-17-67 Page Nine
AENDMENT No. 81 - SIGN ORDINANCE - Continued
So as far as I am concerned I agree with Councilman Nichols and I also
go along with the recommendation of the,-Chamber-6f.-Commer-ce.
Councilman Snyder-, Well I will have to talk more because as
I said I was around when this sign
ordinance was born and it was born in -
as much controversy and with a great deal of belief in what we were
doing. In my opinion over the years the appearance in this City has
born out what we believed in then. Again just because the Chamber of
Commerce, and the Chamber of Commerce does not represent all the'
merchants of this City - they are supposed to represent the merchants
attitude but again if you can..explaii:to. me.how.you-..are not giving7an
added advantage to the person who is allowed a detached sign with ,
the full ratio on each side over the person who has to have a parallel
sign, then I might go along with you. I am willing to compromise. .
Mayor Krieger: The whole purpose of the detached sign
Is to apply rules of equity to a
situation which is.not equitable. I
would tend to go along with you Dr. Snyder, except for what is written
into the pro,p osed ordinance and which is carried over and that is a
stringency', as far as justification to concerned, before a person can
qualify for a detached sign and which would only be allowed when the
buildin,g.�.lj=ation or topographical location varied or other like '
circumstances precluded the use of a sign on the building, but must
have explicit approval as to the necessity, size and location of either
the Planning Director-, the Planning Commission, or,the City Council. I
think there are built in obstacles to the qualification of a detached
sign. If the applicant can qualifyin terms of the re . quirements for a
detached sign then I think we get down to the question of commonsense'
and that is how are yougoing to apply the formula you set up to.
provide him with the same�type of advertising you are allowing anyone
else. And then it seems to me you would get down to fundamentally a
line of site question and that is what is the motoring or pedestrian
seeing when they look at the sign, and I can't see where it is
inequitable if they are seeing the same amount of square footage for a -
detached sign as they are seeing for an overall square footage for a
pa,rallel sign.
Councilman Snyder: It is inequitable for several reasons.
You can't see a parallel sign in mo-st
cases until you are almost directly
parallel with it. The detached sign., eventhough the man's store may
be behind another store and is allowed"this because of that, his sign
shows up further down the street then those people in front who have to
have a parallel sign. So it is inequitable from that standpoint. He has
an -advantage over the people in front of himp because they can see As-
sign a block away and they don't see the one parallel to them right there.
He has that one advantage so to make it fair we reduce.the-size.of it..
The size of the reduction is not so great that It does not make his sign
noticeable because betng parallel it is still more noticeable in view of
the fact that it�blocks out the view, In fact that is another inequity.
The detached sign can block out the view from the motorists coming down
the street Of the parallel, s1gn..th&t it obstructs. -
Councilman Gillum-, lftgb! we can do away with detached signs
CmIneilman Snyder-. -Obvi-Ously you can't do away with detached
signs completely.
Councilman Gillum-, I don't think you . can handicap them. I
don't think the.wverage person in this
town can tell the difference between 75
and 100% difference in sign size. I think there is a built in safeguard
- 9 -
ADJ. C. C. 7-17-67
Page Ten
AMNDMENT_ NO. 81 - SIGN ORDIVANOE - Continued
as Mayor Krieger pointed out. Each one of these have to come up and
show good cause and reason why they should big granted this.
Councilman Snyder,o If I.had a hardware store in a shopping
center or any other type of store, and
I had to have a 3 to 1 ratio in the
front of my building and another store competing with me in the back and
he is allowed a detached sign because he is in the back and he gets the
same type of size in signa e stickt�` up next to the curb showing both
9 Ag
ways, you can't tell me he doesn't have an advantage over me.
Councilman Gillumo, Dr..Snyder if they drive across your
place to get to his, then you are not
doing- the job you should be, because
when they drive past that sign they are going to drive right past
yourso
Councilman Snyder,-. But they can see his a black away.
Councilman Gillum-, But they are driving right past your
place, his,is behind yours. If you are
going to use that for an example.
Councilman Snydero, I don't agree with you.. I also don't
trust,, even though detached signs have
to-be.placed by permission of the
Planning Departmentp Planni4g Commission or City Council - I don't
agree with yo;; that commonsense always rules at any three levels.
Sometimes It is the power player who has the most influence or. who
can argue the best.
10 Mayor Kriegerso This has always been true nf a variance
too, Dr. Snyder. If you.left the
ordin e exactly as it was and if these
are the ground rules and the people :%Cting on the Planning Commission
or City Council t4e-y can influence the same way in granting a variance.
Councilman Snyder -
That is my argument - commonsense is a
relative t�hing,._
Mayor Krieger: Is there further.discussion on the double
faced signs? Let's start a discussion on
the controls. We have on Page 10,
paragraph 17, the subject of the abatement of signs. Specifically,
within the C.- zones,, but it carries forth in the other zones -
"it shall further be the responsibility of the property owner and the
land owner to remove any sign or signs on premises abandoned -for a
ieriod of over 60 days" - I believe"the Chamber of Commerce came in with
herecommendation on this particular matter, that there be a requirement
that the landlord sign on the permit for the sign.
Councilman Gillum-,. Wasn't 'there some questi,on on -the legal
--e-nf-drasment of this action? I may be
wrong....
Mayor Krieger-.. As I understand from Mr. Williams, there
was no legjal problem but there was a
practical question raised as to.the
mechanics of it.
Councilman Gillum-, I wasn't sure, but I do know of quite
a few -signs in the Cityp 0&0 rather -large
that is standi a todai and I am not sure
who it belongs to or who is responsible for but believe it is -an
area we should give serious consideration to and if it is possible to
tie the -pro SM owner to thisaart of he shn g7dinance We now
e
require sucK t, ngs as weed aba em he i t e property owner and
I think this falls under the . same cate�ory. It is a problem created
lQ
ADJ. 0. C. 7-17-67 Page Eleven
AMNDMENT-NO. 81 - SIGN ORDINANCE - Continued
within the City and I think it is the property owners' responsibility
to see that this doesn't exist.
Councilman Nichols,o Qan_certa�nly conceive of some
problems that will aris** when a gentle-
man comes before the City and requests
a permit -to erect a sign and he says the landlord is in New York City
or some other distant location. Because this might. -Well involve a
considerable delay, which would work a hardship on kbusinessman'that
would legitimately be - through no fault of his - '., unable to comply
with our requirements promptly. I con.r-ur that we have a problem in
this area but I haven't hpard anyone come forth with any device or
approach that would perhaps..meet'�his problem, other than this
suggestion to hold the landlord responsible, I think in the final
analysis that.probably if the businessmen were required to have the
sign permit taken out by two people that he could.,- in a matter of
urgency in the vast majority of cases, reach-tEe landlord for a joint
signature om the.application.so although I do recognize the limitations
of this as a device, I think I would be inclined to go along with this
prQvis_Ja#,,1n view of nothing bettef on the horizon..
Councilman Gleckmano
0 1 want to ask the City Attorney a few
questions - let's say for example you
would have an abandoned sign- and that
sign would fall across the building and hurt somebodyg who would
be legally responsible? I think it would be the property owner and I
think he has an obligation right there, not only for the safeness of the
sign but the method proposed by the Planning Dep.aLrtment. I don't think
the Planning Department in its. recommendation.�Sald._:that the landlord .
shd:vld be on it, the recommendation from the Chamber was that the land-
lotd should be on the permit. I would like to -see the landlord be on it
with the idea that within 90 days after the sign goes up that the
signature must be in and in that way no businessman would 'have any
excuse for Yaot getting the signature either of the landlord of his legal
representative.
Councilman Snyder:. It is my understanding -that this
provision - "it shall further be the
responsibility of the property owner
61 the'land-'.and/or provision to remove any signs or sign'abandoned for a
period of over 60.days" - is adequate as stated, and I don't Pink we
need the city attorney here to give us an opinion whether it is adequate
as stated,"
(Mayor Krieger asked that the Oity.Attorney be called back into th6
meeting - Mr. Aiassa advised that he left the building as he had to
be in attendance in another City.)
Councilman Snyder: If somebody wanted to open a new'b'usiness
tomorrow and.the sign being so important
or seeming so important,
,, the businessman
and one of the o'wners of the Plaza is in Russia - hi"
to . sign? I so how do you get W.
Mayor Krieger-, Dr. Snyder, that is exactly the,absentee-
landlord that we are most concerned about
and I.think we have to build into our
Sign Ordinance something to tiehim directly in.
Councilman Snyder: I have a question - isn't this adequate
in itself?
Ma,vqr Krieger: -In-my J,4dgment it ismot, but -that is
In -my- judgment. * -If you.walkad -ito, a
statignery store and buy the cheapeat
lease you can, or if'you'goln and haie-a lease drafted specifically for
your building, as a property owner you will find a provision in '
language either simple or quite involved, which says the tenant will not
ADJ.*C. C. 7-17-67 Page Twelve
AMENDMENT No. 81 - SIGN ORDINANCE - Continued
construct or install without the consent of the landlord" - tfiis-is
from the simplest to the most complicated type of legal drafting. Now
here is a situation where the landlord wants to exercise some control
over the type of,signage installed by the tenant on his building and I
am saying that it is perfectly proper for us to say that's alright but
as far as the City is concerned when your tenant comes to us you join
in that application, and the mechanics of the consent of the joiner
will lead to the relationship between the landlord and tenant, but
you join in this thing so we have on file an application signed by -you
oi your authorized agent so if there is a-vlo-lation or an abandonment
as a matter of public record you are a signator of this and,have.
undertaken the.�legal obligations of the code - so that you don't have
the absentee landlord come in and say "now wait a minute, -not only shall
I.not be a paxt of this type of aprovision but I didn't even approve -
of.that sign.,hat the tenant put up to begin with and he was in violation
of the lease by putting up the sign so I am not bound...."
Councilman Snyderoo Let's look at it from the public relations
viewpoint. One of the arguments of the
Chamber of Commerce has been that there
were instances of business refusing to come into West -Covina because they
were not allowed the proper size of signs4 Now obviously they are
inferring that our sign ordinance has kept business out of the City because
of the difficulty of getting signs, so if you are going to add this added
difficulty of getting signs having to get the landlords signature you
are putting one more obstruction and you are adding to our public
relations.area, in fact the ordinance as written is probably adequate
to handle this. But I think this is a.bigger factor than the legal
factor, the public relations factor.
Councilman Gillum: Dr. Snyder, I sometimes would like to have
the names of some of these companies that
si�,n-ordinance and if I did would not come to the City because of our
I would be glad to give them to you.
Councilman Snyder: I, for one., can't believe this was the
only consideratlon....
Councilman Gillumo, No. but this was one of the considerations
and you kept referring.to the sign
ordinance drawn up years ago when the -
City was a small bedroom community. Things change, business -atmosphere
changes and you can see them.building all around West lavina-today.
I am not proposing.a sign ordinance that would make the City look like
Gardena or a place of that type, but I do think the -City is going to
have to take a serious lookq which I think.this is, and make some changes
in our sign ordinance to. attract this business - when they can.,go all
around us and draw the tax dollar out of the City.. Regardless of this
thing bein
ga handicap for the property -owner to come in and sign -for a
sign that is.,a minor point, they have to siZn leases and other'legal..
documents .-before pe.o.ple can,.take - over --a. huildimg.,... I...don't believe this is
going; to be� any- hand-loap -W-hatsoe.vex just- one- mo-r-e sign-ature.
Councilman Snyder:
believe and believe strongly
going to open up for further.,
it will look like Gardena.
Councilman Gillum-,
slipulders.
-I d n't believe.that this ordinance, as
written here, is going to make our City
look like Gardena or El Monte. I do
that taking the first direction that way is
loosening of the sign.ordinance and eventually
I think this is up to the Planning
Commission and Council that we have at
that time. The responsibility is on their
Councilman Snyder: That is true but everything ou attempt
to- -do. whem you, ae-t a. policy �y -or.dinanc-e
is... tnh,.::attemp.t totset an e:F-am-nle for
other councils to follow. Whether ey do or no you don t-know.
12
ADJ. C. C. 7-17-67 Page -Thirteen
AMENDMENT-10. 81 �:, SIGX:'ORDIIA�X, S' - Continued
9
In my opinion you are loosening this too much and making way for it
to be opened further.
Councilman GillumS.
Councilman SAyders,
Mayor Kriegers
are talking about a requirement
now have.
Councilman Snyders,
M4yor Kriegers.
type -signs.
I -don't think requiring the property
owner to sign it is loosening it .....
We:are only talking about one 000000
This is what:we are talking.about. We are
.xot t4lking *about loosening the
ordinance but about tightening it. We
that is a tighter Gontrol than what we
Well I think this one Is too tight.
Themext item is th question of moving
signs or restrictM to barber polesp
time and temperature and public service
Councilman Gillum,o This is the only one I haven't come to a
decision on Mr.. Krieger. I am concerned
is it legally possible to restrict it
to barber polep? In a sense it is a rotating -sign and I am not sure in
my mind if we pan restrict It to..barber poles o-nly6 I brought this up
last time and again I think this would be up to the discretion of the
Planning,Department, Planning Commission or City Council. I am not
sure that I could actually give you an opinion on barber poles. ,
Mayor Kriegerso This point -was raised last week. I read
to Nro Williamov the comments made by
Mr. Terzian to the Planning Commission.
I gathered that ltr�.,Williams_disagreed with Mr.-Terzian's opinion to the
extent that he found that if there is a fixed and reasonable standard of
application you could legally distinguish one type of sign from another
but you could not merely restrict it to a professional group and say by
virtue of your profession you might have a moving sign or something
within something that moves., But he did raise a legal q_u9stion of.
draftmanship as to how you could define and in what langua ' ge you would
define the discussion of a sign that was permissable.and exclude those
signs that were not permissable by definition. ,
Councilman Gillum-, The main thing that concerns me and
which happens. to allgovernment bodies -
in the.past we tried to write an ordinance
that protects and we have found in the past that someone discovers a
loop hole and we open the floodgates. There are many, signs that rotate
in different places in the country that we restrict in this City. I
honestly can't see the difference it would make with the barbers if the
sign rotated or not. I am *Ieconeerned about what this would open up as
far as rotating. and animated signs.
Councilman Nicholss, My own barber is one of the senior barbers
in the City, well versed with the City -
structure and quite near the Civic Center
and almost invariably during my visitations there makes some passing.
commeuts-on the public signs of the times and he has made no comment on
the signs with.regard to the barber poles, so I- don't think he.has any.
great. or strenuous feel1_=_..,a.bGut it, or I believe he wou3A have
mentioned it I believe 1here-are some.s.igns I don't know whether you
would classify them as public service signs, tut there aresome signs
that just could not function unless they move. Gertainly the temperature
sign would be that wayo the sign which is a clock obviously would,be that
way and yet these signs are relatively rare and -have been handled on the
basis of a varia;ice and certainly a.dign of this type would be able to
S
13 -
[A
0
ADJ. C. C. 7-17-67 Page Fourteen
AMNDMEN-_ NO2 81 Continued
present the showing for'a variance so they would be able to decide
whether they would be able to operate it or not. The barber pole I
would hold to the position that I would go along.with the.staff
recommendation that this portion of the ordinance remain unchanged.
Councilman Gleckman: I still feel and I know Councilman
Gillum didn't mean it for this, but I
still feel we are being nine years
antiquated on this - and I will leave it go at that.
Councilman Snyder-. I azj(161 to find out the source of
Councilman NicLhols political philosphy,
but I -agree with him on barber. poles.
I do want to.make a comment on the - time and temperature signs.. I feel
these are in order, but I don't think you should use the term "by
variance" because technically and legally this is not the proper way to
do it under the variance as it has been interpreted because if we could
place them under the special us.e permit or some place like that in the
Sign Ordinance - but I would be against --the variance approach.
Mr., Menard,, Planning Directoroo. I.kno.w of no other way than by
variance.
Mayor Krieger: Well, I would go along with the
member of the council that spoke out
against the barber pole or any type of
animated sign. I feel that - as Dr. Snyder stated, there should be some
mechanism other than a variance that would permit those publieservice
signs such as�the time -and temperature, to come in and qualify. I don't
think there is any basio.disagreement on that point. There does�sesz
to be some question as to the barber pole opening up that end of the
ordinance and I would not be in favor of opening that possible Pandora's
box. I think it would raise some very serious questions as to
interpretation and enforceability.and the charges.of discrimination to
application.
Councilman Snyder:
interest that- do not follo
Ordinance - that there be a
you would call it, possibly
think of another one right,
May I suggest perhaps there ought to -be
a mechanism in the Sign Ordinance
regarding not.only time. and temperature,
...but other signs of general community
specifically within the boundaries of the
provision in here for - I don't know what
a special use permit type of sAgn. I can't
now, but there are other types..
(Discussion on the types of signs that might be considered public use
signs.)
Councilman Snyder: I am talking about the future, the
unforeseeable type of sign that we can't
quite think of ri * ght now. If we should
have a public auditorium, it might t,4volve a special type of sign that
would not fall under the provinces of this ordinance
Mayor Krieger: I would suggest on that score that
might be better identified to refer �bat
special matter�back to the Planning
Commission for suggestions and drafting and submission to the council
and we could then consider it.
(Mayor Krieger gave a rundown as to how the councilmen were deciding on
the different -issues involved. Councilman Snyder.called attentio.n.to
o.Ae more item that was not yet discussed - the sliding scale ratio.)
Councilman.-Smy-der: 2 to l.for the C-1; 2.5 to 1 for C--2;
and 3 to 1 for the C-3. -The C-1 is a
neighborhood shopping center. The C-2 is
- 14 -
ADJ - 7-17-67
Page Fifteen
SIGN.ORDINANCE - Continued
essentially the neighborhood shopping center but of higher and more
intense use. The 0-3 is a shopping center of even more intense use
and I.think their signage should be related to sign. The recommenda-
tion here is for 2 to 1 in 0-1 and they give the same in 0-2 and 0-3
a,nd by its very nature the C-2 is more.related to 0-1, so I thought
we might strike a compromise which makes more logical sense.
(Councilman Gleckman asked Mr..Menard for the locations of C 3
shopping centers in the City of West Covina. The different centers
were mentioned whether in 0-2 or C-3.) I :-
Councilman Gleckman.- If we had the majority of our shopping
centers zoned C-3 I would go along with
you,, but what you are saying - Eastland
becaus,e it is zoned C-3v the Old Center because it is.zoned C-3 and
the area around the Eastland Theatre because it is zoned C-3 - they,
should have 3 to 1 - if you agree with the 3-1 philosphy; and the
Plaza, Esko, and Thriftyma t and some of these other shopping centers
should only have 2.5 to 1.
Councilman Snyder-, I am talking about the usage. The
Plaza is a regional shopping center.
Councilman Gillumg Dr. Snyder May I read you from the
Ordinance on C-2 and C-3 as far as. signs
are concerned? Under C=3, which was
Ordinance.913,, dated 3-22-65 it says - "signs-permitt-ed in 0-3 shall be
limited to,the provisions in this.charter pertaining to signs in C-2"
so we have had the same sign ordinance in C-2 and C-3 in the past.
Councilman Snyder-,
That doesn't make it right.
Councilman Gillum:
I.wasn't-here in 3=22-65, so I can't
argue that part of it, but now you are
going to come along and change it and
m4ke a difference between
C-2 and 0-3 and I.can't see it.
Councilman Snyder:
They are different zoning, aren'.t thdy?
Councilman Gillum:
Well I can't tell when I am -driving
from one to the other right now. I
know where they are but if I drive from
bie to the other it isn't
that apparent. There isn't a sign that says
have C-2 and we have C-3. We have C-3 right now next to C-2.
06uncilman Snyder-,
We are attempting.to identify ourselves
as the Headquarters City - it seems to
me then that we should have a way of
identifying your -regional
from -your neighborhood shopping cent ' ers which
necessarily would impress
on the ccoscious mind of the customer by the'-�
size of the sign.
Councilman Gillum:
The average person -couldn't tell You the
size of one sign from another.
Councilman Nichols:
I would go along with the position I
took last week, which was to support the
Chamber's recommendation to go to the
uniform size of 3 to 1.
Mayor Krieger:
This is also the recommendation of the
Planning Commission, of course, as far as
the ratio was concerned.
Councilman Nichols:
The Chamber's recommendation is somewhat
different than the Planning Department's.
- 15 -
ADJ. C. C. 7-17-67 Page Sixteen
AMENDMENT No. 81 --SIGN-ORDINANCE - Continued -
Mayor Krieger,* Their recommendation on C-2 was 3 to 1,
and on C-1 no change, and on C-3 it was
3 to 1. From the comments madeq there
again would be four councilmen in favor of the standardization
of the ratio on the 0-2 and C-3 zone. One councilman speaking for a
different:bLtion between the 0-2 and the 0-3 of � of a sqaure foot. So I
believe a motion would be in order.
Motion by Councilman Snyder that the signs in the nature of T'ime and
Temperature,' or of.general public interest, or that'do. not fall within
the provisions of this,Sign-Ordinance as writteng that they be referred
back to the Planning Commission and staff,.fOr the drafting of a
technique of acquiring svich signs under a Special Use�Permlto within the
provisions of the Sign Ordinance.
Councilmah qnyder.o These type of signs would have to go to
the PlRnning Department, or. -Planning -
Commission before being approved. What
I am attempting to'get;,away from is the variance approach.
Mdtioxi secoAded.-by'l-Councilman Gleckman, and carried.: There were no
obJections.
MotIon by..Counc`1 Nichols that the.Couricil.'approve the -Planning,
Commission— Res'a-lution No. 1966 with the exception that in the
applicable sect16ns.that the-recommendationzon detached signs be
modified to read - "that the same footage allowedfor a building front
or facing.sign,should be allowed on both -faces of.-a4y approved detached
sign, and.exciept-that or relative to the issuance of a sign permit that
a requirement be included.that the legal owner of.the premises:upon
which the sign,is.�to be located, be r"equired'.to become a joint party by
signature to the application for the sign within 60-days of the date
of initial issuance of the permit to erect the sign." And that, the staff
be directed to meet with the City Attorney in order that the
differentiation between the two types of signs thAt is advertiswng and
identifying, be accomplished in the Ordinance.
Councilman' Nichols,o I amend my motion to include "landlord
and/or legal owner or his represented
legal agent..
Motion seconded by. Councilman Gillum., and carried., -'on roll call vote as follows-.
AYE S Councilmen Gilluni, Nichols, Gleckman, Mayor Krieger
NOES,- Councilman,gnyder
ABSENT., None
I* (MAYOR KRIEGER DECLARED A RECESS AT 9,., 10 to 9.-,20 p.m.)
- 16 �-
ADJ. C. C. 7--17-67
CITIZEN'S ENGA(37ED 'IN ANTI-CRINIE EFrORT
Page Seventeen
Mayor, Krieger,,,, Two regular neetings ago we rec.ef.,ved a report
frorn Ch-ief SJOI da.ted, J-une 1, 1967, and we indicat-
ed at that time we wanted an adjo-ii-rned reg-ular
meeting to receive a full report. Chief Sill is with us this evening to give us a report.
.(Chief Sill presented a vis-ua.l pre.�sentation with regard to The proposed. program
called C.E.A.C.1E. He displayed. charts c.overing the problem of a. crime ra-te
within the CIty of West Clovin,��, and the met -hod of operating C.E.A.C.E. , if the
program were instigated, in. the C�Ity.)
1\4.ayor, Krieger' Is there anything further the staff wishes to
present on- this matter at. th1s time? Dur.;Lng- the
rece,ss, I was addressed by cerfain, individuals
here this evening who have indicated, their des-1-Te to address the cauncll on this
subject. I explained to them this is not a Public Hearing 31',tem, 10: appears as an item
on our adjourned regular meef.ing because the council d1d receive the subject- matter
at. a regular meeting and wanted greater time to devote to it. I indicated tha.t: I would
have to ob-tain from the counc-ld a-��,� to whether or not the couricil wo-ald want to
receive remarks from the publ,7,c t=`.ght.
Councilman. Snyder- Mr. Mayor, may' L'lask a quesvt1on ? Perhaps this
w flI fc
f �restall some furt.her comments. The article
in the Times Andica-ted thi.s
is to go a little further- than. outlined by Chief Sill. Yc-.a rnade no allusion,. to the fact of
the people reporting in their neighborhood with regai.d, -ro their neighbor's activities.
.Is this part of the program?
Chief Sill. That is, one of the things we would have to do in the
educational session we nave with the interested.
people,, so they would recognize incidents wh1ch
may be a little out of line in their, area. . It isn't the intent fl-n-at they report on, their
neighbors but on people who are not necessarily their neighbors . The example I would
use - we have had an. unusual. n�umbar of colored television tbefts Ln this vicinity. If
oomeone would happen. to �see a truck moving tip and down a street on a number of
s
occasions it might be a good idea for them to call the Police DeparLlment and have us
send. a car down in the area to investigate and see -111 the person belongs in the area.
Counc-diman Nichols. Mr. Mayor - the item was not scheduled. as a
dis c-us sion item , therefore the public -.in g eneral
is rict invited to come here, this evening and
offer a commentary and, therefore th.ose that did not recognize thl-s as a hearing, item
did riot come. I think it wo ' uld place other, people at a d1sadi,,antlage, no matter, how
they might feel about this matter, if this were opened this evening- ir,,Ata a public
discuss.ion forum. If this is the des.1're of the council. to p,,jrsue this rnatter further it
would be totally appropriate to entert-ain the opinions of the people., bu+C I think an.
evening, should, be devoted. when ir is proper for it. I don't think tonight would be,
we have had a faIrly long agenda so far and I would not favor openir-�,g this up to
become a public fa -rum this evening on, this first public ou."LlAine by the Chief.
- 17 -
0. 0. T-11 -6T
Page Eighteen
C.BOA.G.B. - Continued
Councilman Gillumo. I would support Mr. Nichols in his
thinking. I think -we should give all
the peoplethe opportunity to express
themselves for or against and I think there would be some feelings on
the part of the public if they had. strong feelings for or against and
were not given an opportunity to express themselveso If it -is -the
majority opinion of the council I would like to see this expressed at
a public hearing. I read the article in the paperp and I don't wish
.to express my feelings at thi ' s time on itg one way, or the other. I
think it should be held for a public hearing and a date set on it -if
it is 'the desire of the majority of the council.
Councilman Gleckmano I have been gone for a week and I was -
not aware of the article until I saw it
in the mail tonight, I agree with
Councilman Nichols.
Counoilman. Snyder-� I am not sure that a public hearing is
even necessary, but obviously there are
some people that want to say something
on this and it is quite true that probably only one side is here
tonight. I think later a public hearing would be more appropriate.
Mayor Krieger.- I would tend to think in light of what
if comments
the council has said that
were received 'this evening on this
subject matter from those in attendance that of necessity and fairness
we - would- have to hold the matter over to make sure there was an equal
opportunity given to anyone else that was generous enoughto give their
time to come down and make their presentation. However, I think- that -we
do owe it �o anyone who desires to address the council on this subject
matter to be given that opportunity. The proposal in 'this instance from
the Chief of Police, although we have not gone into questioning the
Chief as to where the program comes from and we will find�some public
interest in that respect too. A motion would be in order for a date
certain with sufficient time for publication of notice by the City Clerk.
Councilman Gleckmano. Mr. Mayor, prior to a motion of that :
type, I would think, before this could be
diselissed intelligently by people and
making certain comments, thatthis program that is being -introduced by:.
Chief Sill would have to be more detailed so that people could speak to
specific details rather than a pUlosphy, because I can see where they
are going to take their own interpretation of what. we are trying to do.
and make a mountain out of a molehill, and I don't think the city
council should be a sounding board for something we don't know . what we -
are sounding about6 I would like to see what is bei% pro
mosed here iz&
much more detail prior to it being opened *to a public ear q;. I know
if I were to spealt on the subject right now I couldn't call it go-od, bat.
or indifferent. It is just not detailed enough for me to discuss.
Mayor Krieger -
There are two ways to get detail, one 18
to ask questions and the other is to g1vo
instructions. I don't assume from 'the
comment the'Chief made that there is anything further he has to offer at
,this point, is 'there? (Answer by Chief Sill: No.) So it is a questiom
of interrogating as to what you want to know, or g1ving instructions as-.
to what you want,detailed.
Councilman Snyder,- I would agree with kr. Gleokman. All vs
have is aVoutline here. There is a way:
of getting da_t_4�1 - that is if this hag
been instituted in other cities, get some experience factors, etc.,
the things that we don't know from the outline given.
- l8-
0. C. 7-17;�-67
Page Nineteen
C.E.A.O.E� Continued
Councilman Gleckmano. I would like to see the Chief come back
with more detailed information, also
with some type of internal staff report.
I think we have a Safety Committee made up w1thin our staff .9 1 don't
know if it would fall within their realm. I think a general, outline
1.1ke this if we were to gq__ahead,and--ho-1d -a public hearing on * -it - I
really don't know what the specific subject matter would be other than
having neighbors informing on neighbors. I don't know -what part of it
you want to speak on. Maybe I have been gone and didn't get a
report or something, but from what I have .,seen this evening I would say
right, now that anybody that came up to speak at the microphone on this
particular subject knows a lot more about it than what I have heard to-
night in order to.speak on it In anyway, shape or form.
Councilman Nic,hols: Chief are there programs of this nature
in operation in other citie-s?
Chief Sill-, Yes - Monte-ev Park has a program
.' V
similar to this.
Councilman Nichols:. Would you be In a position . within a:
re-asonable length of time to achieve for
this Council an analysis of similar
programs that might be in other cities along with some specific details
of their operation, what they have done and how they.feel about it?
Chief.Sill.- I!coul,d probably do better thain that,
I could get the Police Dhiaf of Monterey
Park here to answer any questions.
Councilman,N:Ichols-, Perhaps you could get reports from
other cities.
Chief Sill: Not that I know of. Monterey Park is
the only City I know of that has this
.program.
Councilman Vicholsoo This program had its geniesi . s In Monterey
�1_ I Park? y
Chief Sill,,, Yes. There have been similar programs,
for instance 0. W�, Wilson started the
Crime Stop pro . ram in Chicago, *which was
really citizen oriented. People took certain pfedges 'to say they would
support the Police Departme-ut.and report specific Instances, and they
were g1ven a-Qard with telephone numbers on it and how to go about
reporting crimet, etc.
Mayor Kriegerso I-s Chief Hol iday sti-A the Chief. 6f
Police in Moaterey Park?
Chief Sillo, yesp he, iso
Councilman Nichols-0 concur with Counailmen Gleol-man �that
we don't at this . point really hate a basis
for a discussion on this -subject,, let alon'@
having a public debate. I would like to see us request -of the-Ohief.of
Police-tha-t he attempt to provide to us two thkpga - specific I ormation
about- the Monterey Park prograLm hat is in service now -and whatniheir-
ex erie.
Ohln.ce has been.- Whether or not he would see fit to briijg the Po -lice
Pf would be at -his discretion. I would need some more-specifids as to
what you would hope to accomplish. One example of -the area that can be
involved and it is wide open at the present time, thaVis taking a block
- 19 - -
ADJ. C. C. 7-17-67 Page Twe'tty
a-B,,A.C.B. - Continued
or mote areas where several hundred people reside and going an the.
.assumption that your progr4m is going to function on the.basia.-of one
or more dedicated citizens maintaining a liaison with"t'hese people. It
is a noble thought but functionally spa-aking how do you accomplish this?
And then what are going to be the limitiLtions on thfunction of these
people that serve.aB liaison - are they Paul Reve-:�ss? Are they
educators? W.,e getintb an area where I think a great deal of definition
would be required -before I, as an elected representative of the public,
could make -a commitment. on this subject. Those are the two areas I
feel we need some analysis of, how it functions in a City and a more
detailed analysis of how the Chief would propose it to function here in
the City of.West Covina, and.then at that time hold it over for 4 Public
Hearing. I would offer that in a motion if I can get a second.
Mayor Krieger: The only comir-ent I 'would like to make is
anyone who h2s been interested enough to
not
appear on th matter that they may
understand, the procedure that the council is discussing. From the
comments made it is the initial desire of th-.7, Council to get more specific
information and perhaps testimony from the s-aff on this subject matter
before determining whether the matter has enough substance to it to even
be considered further. And then if the matt,�r were to be considered,
I haven't heard any strentious objections to considering it a public
hearing item.
Councilman Nichols: I would movz-�, then that the Chief of
Police, thr�.�ugh the City Manager, be
directed to bring before the council
by, the date of the first regular council me.3ting in August, such detailed
information as he maybe able to generate a.- ' , ' d provide, concerning the
type of program that is presently in operation in Monterey Park, and
similarly being proposed here, and to also present any other specifies
that he may consider in the interim that woald involve the implementation
of his ideas in this program,
Motion seconded by Councilman Snyder.
Councilman Snyder: I think we are Darticularly interested
in - as Councilman Nichols pointed out -
what -limitations are put or. these people,
how are they chosen, what kind of education are -they doing at this level,
Councilman Gleckman�
How long as Monterey Park had this
program?
Chie f Sill: About two years.
Councilman Gleckman�o- Also in discussing this motion, may I
ask the Chief for some comment as to what
effect it has had on their crime rate
and also. his, own personal comments regarding their programo
Chief Sill-. There has been a general, levelling off of
crime in that community; they are able to
maintain a more stable rate. Of course
it is somewhat difficult to say that this main responsibility is this
program, there may be other factors involved,
40
Mayor Krieger: Is there further discussion? Hearing
none - motion carried, all in favor.
Chief Sill is there aty material available.
from the,President's Crime Commission on crime in this area? I have seen
the report - does this relate in anyway?
Chief S.illoo This relates very closely to the
OommissioiRg recommendation- for the
establishment of a Communit erviaps
Officer. These 'were proposed in the Crime Commission repoR in what
- 20 -
Is
0
ADJ_ C. C. 7-17-67 Page T, t-31, ne
O.E.A.C.E. - Continued
they refer to as disadvantaged neighborhoods, however I don't see that
same application in the City of West Covina. What we are trying to do
primarily is interest the citizens in the fact -that the crime rate is
going up and they have*an obligation to assist us in bringing it down.
There is a very thin line, as you know being an7attarney, between the
powers of apeace officer and the powera of a citizen whexi it comes to an
arrest. A very small difference,, .
Mayor Krieger: -
and presentation together
MAYOR'S REPORTS
Between this date and August 14th, the
first r6gular meeting,of the Council in
August, if you will get that material
for us we will appreciate it.
RESOLUTION NO, �625 The Deputy City Clerk p'resent-edo
0
"A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF
ADOPTED THE CITY OF WEST COVINA COMMENDING
PAUL M. McCANN FOR HIS SERVICES TO -THE
CITY. 11
RESOLUTION NO. 3626 IVA RESOLU
THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE
bITY OFVEST COVINA COMMENDING
ADOPTED WILLIAM H' JOUSOX�FOR'..HIS..ISERVIOES T-O
THE QITY.
RESOLUTION NO. 3627 VIA RESOLUTION OF'THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE
CITY OF WEST COVINA COMMENDING
ADOPTED LEROY SOLDER FOR HIS SERVICES TO THE
CITY."
RESOLUTION NO. 3628, "A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE
CITYOF WEST COVINA COMMENDING
ADOPTED ROBERT 0. YOUNG FOR.HIS SERVICE TO THE'
CITY."
RESOLUTION NO. 3629 "A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE
CITY OF WEST COVINA COMMENDING
ADOPTED DR� WILLIAM McCOLL FOR HIS SERVICES TO
THE CITY."
RESOLUTION NO. 3630 "A RESOLUTION OF'THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE
CITY OF WEST COVINA COMMENDING
.ADOPTED KENNETH CHAPPELL FOR HIS SERVICES TO THE
CITY."
RESOLUTION NO, 3631 "A RESOLUTION OF.THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE
CITY OF WEST COVINA COMMENDING
ADOPTED MRS. GLEN TeVAUtT FOR HER SERVICES TO
THE COMMUNITY."
RESOLUTION NO, �632 VIA RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE
CITY OF WEST COVINA . COMM-ENDING
ADOPTED DONALD R. CASLER,FOR HIS SERVICES TO THE
COMMUNITY.
I
W41
ADJ. CC� 7-17-67 Page t"Wo
MAYOR'S REPORTS - Continued
RESOLUTION NO.. 3633 "A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE
CITY OF WEST COVINA COMMENDING
ADOPTED CARL F. DAVIS� JR., FOR HIS SERVICES TO
THE COMMUNI�Y.11
RESOLUTION NO. 3634 "A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE
CITY OF WEST COVINA COMMENDING
ADOPTED MRS. FRANK PLESKO FOR HER SERVICES TO THE
COMMUNITY.
RESOLUTION NO. 3635 "A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE
CITY OF WEST COVINA COMMENDING
ADOPTED MRS. WILLIAM JUBINA FOR HER SERVICES TO
THE COMMUNITY."
RESOLUTION NO. 3636 "A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE
CITY OF WEST COVINA COMMENDING
ADOPTED JOANN WHEELER FOR HER SERVICES TO THE
COMMUNITY."
May.or.Krieger: Hearing no objection, waive the reading
of each and all the bodies of these
respective resolutions,
Motion by Councilman Gleckman, seconded by Councilman Gillum, that the
council adopt each and all these respective resolutions. Motion carried
on roll call as follows.*
AYES Councilmen Gillum,
NOESO None
0
ABSENTs None
Mayor Krieger:
Nichols, Gleckman, Snyderg Mayor Krieger
Each and all of these Resolutions are
adopted by unanimous -vote of the Council.
(Discussion then followed regarding Perma Plaque for all Resolutions.
Price was discussed - it was determined it would run about $8-00 each.
Councilman GlOckman suggested that the, rocess be used only In special
instances, naming,those he referred to.y
Councilman Snyder-, I think by doing so we are going to
develop different degrees of award.
In the past, even resolutions -to
councilmen never got perma-plaqued. I think we will be opening up a
big area of expense and maybe they would rather have them framed in a
black frame.
Councilman Nichols: I agree with Dr. Snyder.
Councilman Gillum-, You have a point Dr. Snyder.
Mayor Krieger.- The only e xception I would take is the
Resolution to the 00-0hairmen of the
Blue Ribbon Commi.ttey, as this has been
done previously. I would suggest we have Dr.. McColl a and Ken 0happell's
perma-plaqued. '(Council agreed.) Mr. Atassa, please'extend ar.
invitation to these people to be at the next council meeting for presenta-
tion of the resolutions.
M1
ADJ. 0. 0. 7-17-61
Page Twenty-three
MAYOR'S REPORTS Continued
SIGN ORDINANCE
Mayor.Krieger,o We need further action on the Sign
Ordinance revision. There is a separate
Resolution of the Planning Commission having
to do with the period of abatement - Resolution No. 11970.
Motion by Councilman Nichols, seconded by Councilman Gleckman,'and
carried, that the council approve Planning Commission Resolution No. 1970
setting the date for abatement of the non-confor�ming signs under the
amended Sign Ordinance,
(Mr. Menard asked the Mayor if it was possible to combine the two
.Resolutions,, the Mayor'replied that he discuss it with the City Attorney..)
PUBLIC SERVICE DIRECTOR
TITLE DESVINATION
Mayor Krieger:
Mr. Aiassa, you had an item to take up
under Mayor's Reports that had to do
with the title des�gnation of your
Public Service Director.
Nzo. Aiassa, City Manager.-
I would like the council to authorize me
to work with the City Attorney end have a
July meeting', designating
this p job -description amendment for the 24th of
osition as the Public Service Director
and Assistant to the City
Manager.
Mayor Krieger:
This�daes not involve an increase in
compensation is there a motion to that
effect.
Mr...Aiassa, City Manager.-
No increase
Councilman Gleckman.-
so move.
Councilman Nichols.�
Seconded.
Mayor Kr . i0ger:
It''is moved and seconded that the City
Manager be authorized to meet with the
City Attorney for the purpbse of preparing
a resolution expanding the
title of the Public Service Director so it
encompasses also the designation of Assistant to the City Manager with no
increase in pay. Disetssion? Objections? No objections, so ordered.
Mayor Krieger: The council authorized me to meet with
rez)resentatives of the cities of Covina,
Glendora Walnut - I did so. A meeting
with, their Mayors, Mr. Yaeger, Mr. Finkbiner and Mr.. Hale, to discuss
specifically the subject matter of Grand Avenue. Mr . Aiassa you may
care to amplify on these remarks.with more detail if the council wishes.
Briefly the roposal that is now in
negotiation tetween the City Of West Covina
and the State Division of Highways for the widening of the San Bernardino
Freeway involvIes. the installation of a new interchange at Grand Avenue,
Ithas been the standard practice of the State Division of Highways, the-
Iuestion being whether it is policy or law thpt they will not participate
n land acquisition for a new interchange 9 ��' This is consistent, as I
understand it, with the Public Bureau of Public; Aoads Policy that they
will not financially particlpata.*inthe acquisition costs of the land for
new interchanges.'
23
ADJ. C. C. 7-17-67
Page Twenty-four
GRAND AVENUE INTERCHANGE - LAND AC_quisITION Continued
The ball park estimate we have received
on the land acquisition cost for the new interchange at Grand Avenue is
in the neighborhood of-$500,000. The whole geography of it is in the
City limits of the City of West Covina. Mr. Aiassa has approached the
County of Los Angeles for a committment as to their participation.
And I will, leave it to him to make whatever comments he feels appropriate
having to do with such participation. But my meeting with the Mayors was
for the express purpose of expressing to these people that we only have a
small sliver of the City of West Covina..on theeastern most boundary
involved in this land and that it would be an unthinkable financial
burden for this City to take the underwriting for the land acquisition
cost for this interchange, and I believe it is a fair statement that
the Mayor of each of these communities expressed their appreciation of
this fact and their leaning to sit down and discuss the participation.of
their community along With the County of Los Angeles and the Mount San
Antonio Junior College and the people at Diamond Bar to join in the
,underwriting cost of land acquisition for this interchange. The reason
I now bring it before the Council is it is a matter of policy, we in
the City of West Cavina are going to have to take the position as to
what percentage of participation this City is willing to undertake with.
the thought in mind if there isn't an underwriting of the balance of
those land acquisition costs the City might recansider its position
having to do*with the interchange recognizing if we are being asked to
underwrite the entire cost that it is a phenomenal figure. Mr. Aiassa,
is there anything you wish to say on the County?
Mr. Atassa, City Manager.- I think we should realize that the Oovzrty
is now participating on two major projects,
on Grand Avenue. The road that is now
crossing the area under discussion and also the portion in Covina that
is now being constructed, Without an
interchange in this locale there
would be no great use'of this improvement they are proposing, especially
Mt. Sac being the principal benefactor. I spoke with the County Road
Commissioner and he advises me there.
,1p more funds available '.rom,
the County for this type of a street pr'ogra-aE'._ They have extended us
$250,000 which is credited against us in West Covina. These funds could
have been charged to similar uses in West Covina like Covina and Walnut
are using theirs. The question before us now and the thing we have to get
2L aecision on is this $250,000 from the County is in and we still have to
pick up the balance of $250,000. We also found out from ¬her reliable
source in the State, that their estimate is $33,000 over the $500 000, which
is a ball park figure same as ours, but with their-ebtimate $263,000 for
us to raise. Walnut has very little gas tax money, Covina has committed
their gas tax money in their City; Glendora, there is a
0 possibility of
their participating and the County in the areas around Grand Avenue and
the vicinity. The other possibility is the council must make a decision
if we are to sign the agreement we will have to sign with the anticipated
expenditure of- 533,000 with a credit of $250,000 from the County leaving
a balance of $283,000, to be funded. The question.is - is.that interchange -
worth this much money to us?
Councilman Nichols a -
kinds of other projects.....
Mr. Aia6sa, City Managers
You are saying that 4250,000 has been
given in a similar sum.to neighboring
cities and which they have used on all
Well in a way we made
As you will remember,
Freeway Agreements the
was demanded to provide the expense of the right of way
int e rc hang e 0
Councilman Snyder:
We amended that.
Mr. Aiassa, City Manager: This
that
not strictly privileged to West Covina
a basic committment
the preliminary
City of West Covina:`�
for the grand Avenue,--,
is the alternative - we can state
we feel that this interchange is
but is serving a larger area
- 24 -
ADJ. C. C. 7-17-67
Page Twenty-five
GRAND AVENUE INT�OHANGE LAND A0QUISITIO3 - Continued
including Diamond Bar.
Mayor Krieger.-
Before we put such a statement to the
State Divi-sion of Highways,�-I think it
is incumbent -upon us to get participa-
tion, if we can, from all the
other communities that will benefit from
this Interchange.
councilman Gleckman:
You have two problems here. My first
question - the #250,000 that they are
going to give us credit for, could we
use it any place else in the
Cityp if we didn't use it on Grand Avenue?
Mr. Aiassa, City Manager:
Yes, it could be used - they are gas tax
funds.
Mayor Krieger:
But they were earmarked funds as such.
This is part of the total funds that are
available to the City in the political
domain.
Mr. Aiassa, City Manager:
That is right. There is a slim possibility
we might get it from the FASUE fund. The
County Road Commissioner tells me he thinks
this fund is exhausted - this
is the fund we used for Azusa Avenue. This
is a Federal Aid Secondary andrthis money was allocated to cities and '
Zavaty =. the -basis bf_-market
'commitment
"to farm road requirements. This fund has to be
matched but wedo hale a firm from the County for 0250,000 and
we col!L-d vse vals §250,000 as
our matching fund requirement. There is
still a question, will this meet the eligibility requirements to qualify
for matching funds.
Councilman Gillum:
Mr. Aiassa - we spent 35 hours working -on
the budget trying to come up with money and
now we are faced with #283,000., ......
Mr. Aiassa, City Manager:
Mr. Gillum we can, I think answer your
question. If the Council says Grand Avenue
is the interchange we want - then we have
to raise the funds.
Councilman.Snyder: This is where you have not told us, this
is where the staff has to come back and
tell us what the benefits of an interchange
at Grand Avenue are to the City of West Covina.
(Open discussion as 'to'whether or not'Grand,Avenue interchange wa6.needed
by the City.)
Mayor Kriegpr: I think we have to draw -the line as to how
far the City financially is going toget
involved as far as the interchange and
beyond that point we are not interested.
Councilman Snyder.- I don't think we 8 ! hould put &-cent� , in -to it.
Councilman' Gleckman-
If we couldn.1t use the $250,000 any place
else, then I would say we would commit
ourselves to the #250,000 but not more,
Mayor Krieger: The County put a lot of money into'Grand
Avenue and it doesn't make a lot of sense
not to have it tied into the Freeway, but
on the other hand if it means $500,000.for them I don't think there is
going to be an' interchange there. Thexe are a lot of communities involved
in this situation and I think the City of West Covina is the focal -point
they have to operate around, because it is our territory. I think we -ought
to be prepared financially percentage wise or fractionally to say how far
we will. go and that's it.
25
ADJ. 0. 7-17767 Page Tweenty-six
GRA.WD AVENUE INTERCHANGE LAND ACqUISITION Continued
Councilman Nichols: I think the City has some area.of
responsibility. There is some small.
portion of the City that will benefit
but certainly no more so than Walnut, to more so than the major
academic institution to the south no more so than the Covina area that
feeds into that college area to Ue south, and no more so than the
devebping Diamond Bar area. So I wouldn't conceive our carrying a
great burden, but,I would not conceive of our carrying no burden at all.
It would be my feeling this council should go on record as.being willing
to commit the exact.sum of gas tax funds.�ledged to the City by the
County for that purpose back to the County - some #25Qv000 and any
.other cost ought to be borne by some other source..
Mayor Krieger: I don't think that is realistic table
stakes in this kind of a game. Just
saying we got the County in the position
of paying $250,000 of their money, now -what are -you guys coming up -with?
They will say - how do we know if the county isn't going to be tabbing
that back to us?
Mr. Aiassa, City Manager: We did program this $250,000 from the
County by using the statistical data as
re �Srao
ia aRattiig
the area out on the map) and howtpftu1f4a1nt68*,? �p�jjted
$250,000 was established for West Covina.
Councilman Snyder: How much taxable property do we lose by
this interchange and who makes the
provision for the Frontage Road
Mr. Aiassa:
Any relocation of the Frontage Road will
be taken care of by the State.
(Mr. Zimmerman advised that- roughly 2-1
2
to 3 acres were involved.)
Councilman Gleckman:
I would go along with Councilman Nichols
motion if he would up the anti $50,000.
Councilman Nichols:
We don't have a staff recommendation. Do
you have a recommendatian Mr. Aiassa?
Mr. Aiassa,.City Manager:
There is one possible solution - we can
amend the agreement and request of the State
as a condition in widening the Freeway that
they put, this interchange ill, at their expense.:,
(Open Discussion.)
Mr. Aiassa, City Manager:
Nobody has presented thisubeund the
Los Ahgeles office. We p t he tunnel
through that highway after we completed
the'original first -agreement. The City of
West Covina put $65,000 - $70,000. The
basic answer is to go to
the County and have.them fund the whole thing,
but I.talkpd to the County
Road Commissioner and he said "forget it,"
I asked him how much we might get from the adjoining cities and -frankly,
Covina has used the:lrs,. and Walnut has used theirs The only possible
solution and it is a slim
one is for us to apply Kr FASUE money, as we
did on Azusa Avenue. We
-Sao
still would need the support of all these cities
including Mt. and the
County, if we could get this fund.
Councilman Snyder:
One other solution amend your proposed
freeway.agreement.
(Discussion followed along. -this angle, with Councilman Snyder being
against any participation for the Rrand Avenue interchange. Mayor
Krieger suggested that he thought the City ought to pick up a fourth
of the tab, because he felt it was worth.that much to the City for the
utential unannexed area in that area, and also he was concerned about
he City's feeder roads in the easternmost portion of the�City and
in his opinion Grand Avenue is going to turn into a very important feeder.).
2167
ADJ. C. C. 7-17-67
Page Twenty-s,�,vsw,.i
�GRAND AVENUE INTERCH GE - LAND ACQUISITION - Continued
Mayor Krieger.- The reason I say 25% - look at the
relative size of the communities we are
talking about - we are talking about
Covina population of 28,000. Walnut - 39000; Glendora - 36,000.
9
Councilman Snyder: But it is not feeding our community.
I don't think you have proven any
Justification for our participation at
all. It is -going to do more harm than.good to the City, It i-s going'to
remove land .......
(Open discussion regarding City losing land, but it would also remove
people from using City access streets,.etc. etc.)
�Councilman Nichols: It appears.to me that.the.
.$250,'000 was
appropriated'to this City from extra
funds and was earmarked for that project. Is that right Mr. Aiassa?
.(Answer: Yes.) So that, is not $250,000 we had coming from any other
source, It was put in there before camparable sums were put in on Grand
Avenue, north and south; and we are talking about adding $70,000 t-o that,
. That ." would be funds that would not be committed to this project unless
we took that action. This would leave then the entire balance of
$213,000 and if they didn't come up with it, it won't be built.
Mayor Krieger: This'is exactly the position I want the
Council to take - either say we won't
come up with a penny, or we will come up
with everything but $213,000, or we will come up with everything but ....
Councilman Nichols:
I am still waiting fora recommendation
from the City Manager. We haven't got
one out of him this whole half hour.�
Mayor Krieger: Why are you hanging back Mr. Aiassa,
this 25% didn't come off the top of my
head?
Mr. Aiassa, City Manager: I think- the solution of the 25% is the
one we worked out as a staff recommenda-
tion.
Mayor Krieger: Mr. Aiassa, will you just verbalize
something on this please?
Mr. Aiassa,,City Manag-er:. My first basic recommendation is that
we apply to the State for the fU,1p_
interchanZe complete for right of wsy and
then use this formula construQtion. If tha't dQedn't work out
-of the City picking up the additional 25% and the
other cities picking up the rest.
Mayor Krieger:
Mr. Aiassa, City.Manager:
Councilman Snyder:
Is thata recommendation?
Yes - what else can we' do?
That is the worst recommendation made
in the last 8 years.
Motion by Councilman Nichols that the City Managerls recommendation be
accepted and that this motion is made in the firm belief that it is not
the wors_� recommendation in the last 8 years. Seconded by Councilman
Gillum. Motion carried on roll call as followeg
AYES.- Councilman Gillump Nioholsv Glackmant Mayor,Kriager
NOES*,, Councilman. Snyder
ABSENTO- None
- 22, -
ADJ. C. .00 7.17-67
Page fteibfty-Ls.ight
GRAND AVENUE INT8RdHANGE LAND ACgUISITION Continued,
Mr.Aiassa City Minagers I have one question as -you know my
first'recommendation was that we apply
to the State. My atproacU yould be when
we finalize our agreement with the State that we wri e adW.41319 them that
0 we feel this interchange,is a total State interohangep which means right of way
and construction. Our second approach would be on the formula proposed.
Mayor Krieger:
I am not saying okay, I'aM saying I
understand you.
Councilman Sny4ero. This is one indication of a highway
interchange that is regional. How you
are going to amportionate it between the
different cities is one of my biggest arguments,,against it and I personally
think it Is of:-more.harm than help. to us.,
COUNCIL COMMITTEE REPORTS
WEST COVINA BEAUTIFUL REQUEST
Councilman GillumS Mr. Aiassa I would like to have you
investigate with the City Attorney I
am sure all of you have received tho_.
V, 0
invitation to the West Covina Beautiful fund.raising affair* hi-h
is being held to raise funds for beautification of the business' district,
There was q uestion asked and I told these people that were putting it on
that I couldn't answer It for them. The possibility of using some chairs.
and tables from the Recreation & Park Department - this organization is
dedicated to raising funds for the City beautification and I would like to
have the council's feeling in this area, whether we should participate
with this type of support or not?
Mayor Krieger-, Any objection if it Is legally permissable?
None.
(Oouncilman Gleckman suggested trying the School District if there was
any reason that the City couldnot accommodate.)
MLYOR'S YODTH ADVISORY COUNCIL
Councilman Gillum -
Mr.. Mayor you handed me two letters,, one
from Mr. Love- and another from a
gentleman that wanted to participate in
the Youth Advisory Council when you handed me these letters I was trying
to go back in.my memory, did we set a date for forming this?
Mayor Krieger.- You were asked by me t . o act as the
Councilman to develop the program to
present to the Council.
G6-anciltan_ Gillum.- This will be within the next 30 days. It
Will be put together in time for the
beginning of.the school year.
AZUSA AVENUE DETOUR
10
Counci . lman Nichols: I feel Azusa Avenue is one of the poorest
examples of roadway providing detour for a
project under construction, as I have seen
in a long time. It is extremely rough. 'So much so that vehicles are
badly bounced and jounced around. Very bad testimony to our community for
people coming through hereq let -alone our.own citizens who are using the
road. Almost intolerable. Is there anything that.the contractor can do to
make those bypasses a little less rough for people?-
- 29 -
ADJ. C. C. 7-17-67
Page T*_&rfty--Nine..
AZUSA, AVEM DETOUR 0ontiAMd
Ar. Aiass.a, City Manager-g. Va. went over.it today,and I* am of the
same opinion. We are going -to have a
staff meeting tomorrow 'and will see what
can'be done.
Mayor Krieger: May I add one that is worse? tors.
The s
drain construction (explained the probleso.
Councilman Nichols-, Mr. Mayor, I want to got satisfaction
on Azusa Avenue first. Mr. Aiassa you
say you are meeting with the staff on
this and we can hope for some improvement.shortly?.
Mr. Aiassa, Pity Manager: Yes.
STATE STREET DUST
Councilman Gillumo, A couple of weeks ago I -asked the staff
to contact these people on State'- Street
regarding the dust problem - what- has.,
been done?
Mr. Aiassa,
City Manager:
We need an encroachment.permit
from the
property owner. We are
starting out withl.
Home 'Savings. & Loan I
havea meeting
with them shortly,
Councilman Gillum,
I am sure you are aware.
of the problem : if
you have ever gonedown
that street on an
decision on
this, at least
afternoon - could we have:soMe definite
in the next 7 days? Can we have a,firm an-swer
next Monday
night?
�Mr. Aiassa,
city Manager:
I hope so,
LEGISLATIVE BILL 1944
Mr. Aiassa, Cit
y Manager: Mr. Mayor', I have one item regarding a i
pending legislative Bill which will bo- -
hard for me to put on the agenda, Bill
1944. -This bill is ' involving, if passed the measure would prevent the
..City using ordinary labor for making street signs and would prevent us
from even making non-standard signs or refurbishing existing signs,
And frankly right now the City is making most of,their.signs.
..Mayor Krieger:
..Any.objection to adding this item to the
agenda? None. Your recomm-endat-ion is
protest, Any objection to protest?
No objections. You have an unanimous vote to protest.
Motion by, Councilman Nichols seconde
d by Councilman Gillum, and carried,..'
'that there being no further 'business, meeting adjourn at 10:37 O'clock P
APPROVED
ATTEST- Mayor
.D7eputy City Ulerk
2�O