06-05-1967 - Regular Meeting - MinutesMINUTES OF THE ADJOURNED REGULAR _MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
CITY'OF WEST COVINA, . CALIFORNIA
JUNE 5, 19671.
The adjourned regular meeting of the City Council was called to order by Mayor Krieger
at 7: 36 o'clock P.M., in the West Covina City Hall. . Councilman Gillum led the
Pledge -of Allegiance.
ROLL CALL
Present: Mayor Krieger, Councilmen Gillum, Nichols, Gleckman,: Snyder
Others 'Present: George Aiassa, City Manager
H .. R. ,Fast, Public Service, Director
Owen Menard, Planning -Director
Robert Gingrich,: Director of Recreation & Parks
Lela Preston,, Deputy City Clerk
Ray Windsor,,Administrative,Assistant
Kirk Wilson, Superintendent of Recreation
Andy Hunter,: Supervisor of Recreation
.Recreation and Park. Commission:
Mrs. -Frank Plesko, . Vice -Chairman
William H . Johnson
Harry J. Kaelin
Robert Nordstrom
SWIMMING POOL .REPORT
JOINT MEETING WITH THE RECREATION AND PARKS COMMISSION
(.Mayor. Krieger greeted the Recreation & Parks Commissioners, . stating that the Chairman
Mr. Veronda was out of town and that Mrs..Betty -Plesko, Vice -Chairman would officiate. )
Mayor. Krieger: I notice in the audience certain members of the Citizens
Blue Ribbon: Committee on the West Covina Swimming
•Pools, who obviously have a continuing interest in
.their report. This is the time and place for the council and the commission to discuss
the report itself. I know the report has previously gone fo the Recreation and Park
Commission for their consideration.
Mrs. Plesko: Yes -we have been given copies of the -report, but it has
Vice -Chairman not been on our agenda.
Mayor Krieger: I assume the members have had an opportunity to review
the report. . Have the members of the Commission any
statements or comments to make individually with
reference to the report? .We appreciate the Commission has not taken an official
posit_ion','as -a! Commission. .
Mrs. . Plesko: I haveread .all of the Committee reports and I think the
Vice -Chairman Committee certainly deserves a big hand of applause
for doing a very, fine job. Much research has gone into
it. .As faras I am concerned personally, .I would go along with their recommendations
as far as the tax is concerned, whatever the City Council wishes to call it. I feel
this would certainly be the way to go, having lived through many bond issues and
discovering the apathy that exists during these bond elections and the expense the City
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SWIMMING POOL REPORT - JOINT MEETING
RECREATION & PARK COMMISSION
gets itself involved in. .I think this certainly would be the most economical way to go.
Commissioner Nordstrom: I certainly endorse the sentiments of Mrs. P1eskQ. :.I
® would, myself, like to extend to the members of the
Blue Ribbon Committee my heartfelt sentiments and a
-real sound round of applause for the terrific job each and everyone of you performed
for out, City. I I certainly do endorse the report, each and every page. .I have mixed
emotions as to the W tax, which is ,emphasized in here, but after due consideration
on my part, .I can see no other alternative except to proceed on a strict paY-as-you-go
basis, which will be the most expedient and economical to our City. .Overall I endorse
the report.
Commissioner Johnson: I endorse the same comments the other two have made.
I have only one ,additional remark due to seniority. .I
have been down the stream several times on bond issues
over these pools from the beginning and that is our biggest problem. Our community
spirit is that we want to get going and get something done. -We get a reasonable amount
of lip service but when it comes to the election we run into an unreasonable amount of
snags. . So in other words I endorse, and feel we should get going and get off the dime.
• The basis for my feeling is the fact that we have spent a considerable amount of time
over the last 8 years on this type of situation and we are almost at the point if we wait
much longer we are going to fall behind as a.City and in the needs and wishes of our
City, and only the fact that we do not have enough communication in this.City is the
big fact that we have not been able to get these things over. My main reasoning here is
we want to get going and the longer we wait the more the land will cost, etc. , So I am
for getting started as fast as possible.
Commissioner Kaelin, Jr.: I like the report very much and I endorse everything
everybody said ahead of me. I would like to emphasize
though that what I got out of their recommendation was that although at the time our
current requirement is for 4 pools, I seemed to get out of it they wanted to go for 1
.pool now. Also the Public Relations and Publicity Committee has given a very brief
report because they haven't anything to go on for the moment. If the council decides
we go ahead, I suggest a big drive on publicity be put on. .As far as the 10� general
tax fund, I don't know if that is enough or too much, but I agree that is the way to go.
Mayor Krieger: Thank you. Councilman .Gillum, this was a . Committee
that you acted as council liaison. You might care to
make_som.e-)ihi'tr.'dductions.of the'.Confnitte-.rnemnb.ers::that are sitting in this evening
observing the discussions.
Councilman Gillum: I would like to introduce the two Co-chairmen, Dr.
Madden and Mrs., Knutsen and let them introduce the
Committee members that are present. (Introductions
were made.) I would like to mention at this time,
if you ..had .,_ seen our first meeting and gone through the whole procedure with us,
and see what we ended up with on the report - well it is something that is hard to
• believe that it could have happened - - but it speaks very highly for the people involved.
At one meeting we had husband and wife on separate sides of the question. (Gave a
background summary on committee meetings.)
I for one would like to commend all of them for some
hard and serious thinking and dedicated work -and some strong and open discussion on
some of the points pertaining to the Swimming Pools.
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SWIMMING POOL REPORT - JOINT MEETING
RECREATION & PARK COMMISSION - Continued
'Mayor Krieger: I am sure I speak for the council whenI again
compliment the Committee for the work that went into
the deliberations that ultimately lead to the
recommendations. I am particularly happy to see so many of the members with us this
evening to at least observe the action that will now take place on the Committee's
recommendations. We have a hard and firm recommendation from this Committee , which
Councilman Gillum says was an unanimous recommendation by the Citizens Committee.
.I gather from the comments made by the Commissioners this evening, in the absence of
th-e Chairman, Mr. Veronda only, that the Commission itself individually concurs in the
recommendations of this. Committee. .Mr. Gffgricd'did-you-have something you wanted
to add to this ?
Mr. Gingrich -
Director of Recreation & Parks: Mr. Veronda's wife called me today and he left a
message with her that he was sorry he could not be here
tonight, but he fully endorses "the recommendations .
in �: terms of the need of pools as the Committee submitted and agrees with the method
recommended for financing, unless some other feasible method is forthcoming from the
City Council, and he,feels strongly that we should take advantage of the Committee's
offer of serving in the area of publicity. . He sends congratulations to the Committee
fora fine job.
Mayor Krieger: Then we have individually received the opinions of
each of the members of the Recreation. & Park. Commission,
subscribing to the recommendations of the Blue Ribbon
.Committee. It is appropriate at this time to open for council discussion as well as
questions of the Recreation & Park Commission as well as any questions that may be
directed to members of the Committee that are present this evening through the
co-chairmen.
Councilman Snyder: May I ask a question first --- since obviously this
recommendation asks for a tax raise which has to be
applied each year if we were to embark on a program of
4 pools on a tax raise, obviously this would not be binding on future councils, so I
think the proper way to approach is on a priority basis and therefore under B on Page 8
of the report you read: "Number 1 on Edgewood High School " as your priority
swimming pool location. I don't think on a year to year tax basis that you can bind
future councils to any program.
Mayor Krieger- Dr. Madden or Mrs. Knutsen, you may wish to respond.
I gathered this was not only a.list of total number of
pools, but also in the priority the Committee recommend-
ed. .Is that correct?
Dr. Madden: Yes, by all means. I would like to add there has been
what I consider a misinterpretation. .In some cases
some people have apparently interpreted that we were
• looking for one pool and to make a decision later on in area. In fact we are saying
that our current need is for 4 pools as we stand now and if in the future our population
increases that we may need additional pools at some later time, but as our
recommendations indicated, that this tax be intiated in.July and continue until we have
4 pools.
Councilman. Snyder: The purpose of my question is - given a single pool and
that doesn't meanI am for a single pool, but that if
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RECREATION & PARK COMMISSION _. Continupcl
things should change and that is all we end up with, I don't know which one you want
first.
-Mayor-Krieger: I think the point that Dr. Snyder raises is a very valid
one. The council might subscribe to the philosphy of
the report itself, but as far as the funding consistent
with the recommendations in the report, find that you only ultimately accomplished one
:pool. .I think that emphasizes the importance of that question.
Councilman Gillum: I tried to - - as much as I am in favor of the Swimming
Pools and the program - - I tried to stay as far out of the
discussions as much as possible. They would ask for
information and things of this type, but this was their decision. I feel. that as stated
,by -members of the Board and the Blue 'Ribbon Committee that we know we need the
..pools. We have tried and tried to put it through on bond elections. I was reading in
the League of California Cities or one of the publications we subscribe to, that swim-
ming -is going to be the number one recreational activity in communities in the next
5 to 10 years. I would, as one councilman representing the people of this community,
I would strongly recommend to the council that they give this report every consideration.
I know it is difficult as elected councilmen to talk about raising taxes. There seems to
be a very strong movement throughout our State and the Nation, in opposition to taxes
but I truly can't see any other way of providing something that is not a necessity but
is a very large asset to our community. Tonight we are also discussing a contract for
our- new Civic Center, this adds to the City of West Covina, but I think swimming
pools also add.
I might pass onto you - that during a conversation
with a women in opposition to one of our current programs - we got to the subject of
swimming pools and she said she would be in favor of supporting a tax increase if the
money would go for that purpose. .Many people -I talked to are in favor of it. •So I
would hope you gentlemen would give this consideration. And under this method
proposed it is the least expensive way of providing something we need in this
community, especially with the number of young people we have. Again I wish to say
that the Committee spelled out in their recommendations their true thoughts and views.
Councilman Gleckman: I have a couple of questions. Mr.. Gingrich, I also
would like to commend the staff for the job they did as
liaison with this Committee, but I didn't see anywhere
where the discussion actually pertained to the use of these pools by the people or by
the community and the people in the community other than the school children. Does
the Recreation & Park Department have some plan in order to use these pools when not
in use by the schools or are they to be used exclusively by the schools ?
Mr. Gingrich: There has been no program laid out or proposed with
the schools, but in discussion with the Committee
the thoughts and ideas were they would be used for
the educational program during the school year and when the time of the year was
decent for swimming in the evening and on weekends during the 4ckool year and all
the time during the summer months. There was also considerable discussion about the
availability for recreational uses during the summer time and the possibilities of
changes in the school program and whether the school would be used for summer
school, etc. I think -it was the general thinking of the committee that in the agreements
with the school. -district that they would be available for recreational swimming during
the summer months and weekends and evenings during the school year. There may be
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SWIMMING POOL REPORT - JOINT MEETING
RECREATION & PARK COMMISSION - Continued
times during the year when it would not be practical to open the pools at night, because
you would not have that much demand for it - say in December or January.
Councilman;Gleckman: How about the initial cost of this first pool of. $135, 000?
• How does the size of this pool compare with .Charter Oak's
pool ?
Mr. Gingrich- I believe we have this information in our resource
material - Mr. Hunter tells me Charter Oak has two
-separate pools.-. They have a swimming pool and also a diving pool. . It is a different
type of structure as far as the pool itself is concerned.
Councilman Gleckman. I think the two things that are going to be necessary that
this- council. discuss, as Dr. .Snyder brought up - I also
agree with the idea of 4 pools, but I also am interested
in seeing what use the City would make of the first pool. I think getting the first pool
is the important thing. .And from that point on we can see what use and need other pools
-would be'to the City. I am getting into the technical points now, but we have to in
order to justify a tax raise to the entire population. We have to spell out the cost of the
pool as far as a tax raise, so that people understand we are not just raising taxes 10�
but what it actually means to them per valuation and where that money is going. - So it
is not a case of us coming along as a..Council and just accepting a Citizens Committee
report and raising taxes 10�. I think there is a lot of public relations work involved.
I think the Committee did an .excellent job in spelling out to this council and this
commission as to what they can justify and what they have found would be of great de-
sire. .Again there is no doubt in my mind about the 4 pools, but I am thinking about
'justifying it and explaining it to the entire xity, because the entire city are the ones
that have to pay, for this.
Councilman .Nichols. I am afraid I feel som ewhat like the one who went into
a revival meeting and during a whole course of "amens"
got up and said "to heck with the preacher.. " As the
gentlemen of the council know, I have tried to hold rather consistently until relatively
-recently to a basic premise I have and that is that the devices that are being used so
oftentimes nowadays to achieve things are still in the final analysis a circumvention
of, -.the wishes of the final majority of the people in our community. .It is terribly un-
fortunate that many of us feel that we desperately need and desperately want and the
route sometimes we go is the route I have not always been able to follow. I initially
objected Very strongly to the approach of moving ahead to obtain a Civic Center and
the Police Station, which is being done 'on a bonding program after a defeat at the
polls and I finally compromised with my basic philosphy in this area, because:I felt it
was an absolute and imperative essential need in our community. I think because I
am a school person by profession and work with young people I appreciate the value
and need of one or more pools in our community as much as most. I very much feel
that we have to also look at it from the standpoint - I know there are people in the
community that feel very strongly we should raise taxes to provide riding trails; I
know there are some people also that feel we should raise taxes to provide more men
to man the streets; and more men to repair the streets; and there are some people who
® think -we should pay more taxes to help improve the -Little League'Fields; and on and
on it goes with all those people saying things they want and they are each saying their
cause justifies taxation and each of them screaming, rightfully so, about the increases
in property taxes imposed by other people with their interests. I recognize for me to
pick and choose between these areas and decide which.ones'I would advocate raising
.taxes for, is a great responsibility indeed.
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SWIMMING POOL REPORT - JOINT MEETING
RECREATION & PARK COMMISSION - Continued
Certainly I would say that .I think it would be a great
and tragic mistake for the council or, the Recreation & Park Commission, or any body
representative of the Commission to say we want 4 pools, 1 - 2 3 - 4 and this is
• the first one, get ready people for 3 more Because, I think it will cause for us
largely what happened before, in that the masses of the public were not ready to
spend ' one million dollars for swimming pools. So I would feel somewhat like
Councilman Gleckman that I think we all in our hearts know that the community needs
additional pools but that we should concentrate our fire and efforts on that first pool
and demonstrate to our community what it can do for the young people, the school
program and the general attitude towards pools. If the consensus seems to be at
that time that we can go for that pool and should go for it and the council in its
majority feel that this is one of the issues or the issue that should involve the
-extra 10� rate to maintain, then I will take my vote, based upon my feelings about
taxation-, in the council for whatever that decision may be. .If I can go along with
the decision positively, fine - if I can'tI certainly will not be'a negative force in
terms of helping to implement and achieve those things.
I think the report is a splendid report and if the
council determines to move in this direction it will have my wholehearted support, but
• I would be hypocritical to myself, the council, and to you on the committee and our
commissioners, if I said that I could concur in the approach as an automatic one to
just add that 10� rate to our tax to achieve the pools.
Councilman Snyder: I would like to say that the people on the city
council, the Recreation & Park Commission and the
committees that worked in'57 -' 60 -'61 and'65 must be very gratified by the results
of this report, because of their disappointment in those years. Certainly everyone
that has run for election in my recollection in West Covina has talked about the
need for pools. .I think we makea mistake if we give the impression to the press or
the -public that it is necessary to raise taxes 10�, it may not be. All they are saying
is that we set aside W of our tax for pools Now we haven't studied the budget in
total, we have to balance it out, one against the other, we may not have to raise
taxes that much. All they are saying is that we have to take W of our tax and turn
it. over to the pool. .We may decide to do without something this year and not raise
the taxes and there may be other methods. However, I am convinced that there is
not only a desire but a need for pools and that the majority of the people would not
object to a reasonable tax raise for financing. .I think we have to go on a pool by
pool basis because we cannot predict or bind future councils. And I think we-ihave
to plan it that way. The next council has to decide whether they want to build the
second pool or not. I think during the budget sessions that the staff should be
prepared with alternate methods of financing or the Park -Section might be
considering doing without buying a park this year - - other than just saying a flat
10� tax raise. .If it is necessary and .I decide it is necessary for it I can vote for it.
The point -I am saying is we should not give the public an impression that a 10� tax
raise is the only way to go. The Committee is just saying that we set aside a 10�
of the tax rate.
® Mayor Krieger. . I think each of the council has focused on a particular
area which is quite true and irrefutable. This,
of course, is where the bus stops and final decision has to be made on the particular
subject matter.
It strikes me somewhat significantly that the four bond
elections we have had in the last ten years showed an increase in percentage of people
in favor.' of pools from '57 to 60 to 61 and in 1961 it got up to just a little less. than
66% and we were just a few votes short and the proposition. was two pools at that tivie.
I think back to when we had discussions on this council in the 1965 bond election,
how we got to the point of four pools. It 6 is still not clear to me exactly the wisdom of
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,.SWIMMING POOLS REPORT - JOINT MEETING
RECREATION & PARK COMMISSION - Continued
i
the compromise that was made by the council. in '65 in putting four pools on the ballot.
T°do-remember distinctly in order to get an unanimous council at that time to support
that- particular bond proposition that was the only way we could do it. .It went down not
•to -a-majority defeat , but to a legal defeat because we only got 51%. But it was
significant to me that 15% of the people four years later were less in favor of four pools
-and apparently were in favor somewhere along the line by this percentage for two pools.
Maybe it was going from rags to riches. I have heard many analyzes -of the '65 bond
election as to what caused what and why and .I don't think anybody has the answer to
it. Although it seems to me a fair observation is that we were going all out for a
-$750,000 bond program for pools, not having any pools at all. In any event we have
.a committee recommendation and a concurrence by the'Recreation & Park .Commission
.,-where the thesis of the four pools -is carried over. .Geographically it makes sense to
me., because if four pools were constructed in 1967 West Covina, you have the city
pretty well covered on the north, south, middle and both ends.
The second point that it seems to approach, is this
question and we discussed this on the four pools in 1965, and we also discussed
maximum usage - that the pools would not $*It around unused during a greater part of
the year. .I also remember the council then meeting with the School Districts, both
•in,Covina and West Covina school boards and the boards indicating to us that they
could not support a pool at one high school location unless there was a pool located
on their high school grounds and unfortunately in the context of this discussion we
were served in our high schools by two school districts and we were at a sort of
unhappy impasse, as,I remember with our meetings, with the school board as to where
did the wisdom come into this consideration and what is the right answer. In 1967
what concerns me is the recommendation that this. Committee brings to us. . It is not
the financing that disturbs me so much, I think it is what Dr. -Snyder says, particularly
about the ability of this council to :chart a road map that would be binding on future
councils or future funding, because that would be the key to it - the funding require-
ment, year after year. Wemight adopt the philosphy of it and I have the•same questions
that Mr..Gleckman and Mr. Nichols have in .this regard. The majority of the council
might adopt the philosphy of the four pools and yet never get to the point of realizing
the four pools because the money is not going to be appropriated in future years to
accomplish this. The 10� 'recommended, if I am correct, would bring in .about $100, 000.
That would still leave us, even on the first pool if your costs are anywhere close
$135, 000; still leaves you coming up short on the first pool and it certainly leaves you
without any funding on the next three. The Committee says 4 pools under priority,
accomplish 1 and then go on to the others. It is not even within our legal capacity to
accept that part of the recommendation except as a matter of philosphy because we
would then, in succeeding councils get to the budget in terms of "are you now going to
fund that next pool as it comes along" - - it is not even within our legal capacity to
accept that part of the recommendation except as a matter of philosphy.
I feel that the council ought to concentrate on the
philosphy of the possible for this council; and even on the Commit(tee's recommenda-
tions, the possible for this council would be 1 pool and maybe a little short of the
funding for that. So we might as Dr.. Snyder stated, if we did not have to entertain
® a consideration for a tax increase, still go $135, 000 into the general fund, which is
quite a slice of the pie, in terms of the total budget that we are considering and the
regular housekeeping commitments that we have day in and day out and that we have
very little discretion on. If we entertain consideration of a tax increase, specifically
ear. marked for this, I think the most we could earmark would be for 1 pool and then
tap into the general fund to make up the difference on that.
Now we get to the question that I think is the next
most serious, recognizing in essence we are probably talking about 1 pool - are we
really willing to go along with that portion of the recommendation of the Blue Ribbon
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SWIMMING POOL REPORT - JOINT MEETING
RECREATION & PARK COMMISSION - Continued
Committee as to location? If the first location would be Edgewood High, I see an
advantage,in this location in terms of maximum usage. Although we have not got into
definitive discussions with the School Districts as to use and primary responsibility
0 which is something that definitely would have to be ironed out if we put it on school
-district property. The only contribution the school district would make would be the
property and we would have to be able to satisfy ourselves that in utilizing say
$135, 000 of our general tax funds, whether on a 10� increase -or not, that we are
getting maximum return for the broad cross section of the population and not a
-restriction as to a small segment of the population, either in age group or geographical
area. This is another thing that would bother me. I would like to see some serious
discussion on the council as to the first location. Of course, it is within our power
to put it back on the bond program. There has been a recent experience in,.Los
Angeles, just last week, were two bond propositions, both very worthwhile, went
down. Historically this has been true.-1--throughout the State of California within
'recent -years., bond propositions going down. The 66-2/3% I have heard this discussed
on the Board of Supervisors, assemblymen, and state senators - 66-2/3% is a tremend-
ously difficult thing to get across do any proposition. An election of 60% is
supposed to be close to a landslide, yet there are certain propositions the State puts
on a ballot and they only require 60% majority and we have the 66-2/3%. -I am
strongly convinced that regardless of the number of pools, to put this on a bond issue
is going to bean extremely difficult thing to get across. .On the other hand I think
the members of this courmil, the members of the Recreation & Park Commission, and
the people that have served on the Blue'Ribbon .Committee are very closely. attuned to
this problem, having lived with it, many of them, for years and I think we ought to
be able to confirm in our own minds whether or not this City needs swimming pools.
I think we do and I think the first question we have to come to a decision on is whether
-or not, we as a council, are willing to go to the general fund, whether it is by a
10'increase or some other method of dipping into:jthe- gehbral'. fund, the sources :I
don't know. I have -a hunch we are note going to find it, looking at this budget, but
---whether or not we are ready to look into this funding right now for this pool will have
to be answered.
Councilman Snyder- . My suggestion is, we will be studying the Recreation
and Park budget very soon and that the Recreation &
Park Commission and staff come back with a budget proposal with a recommendation
for a location of one pool. I think there is a consensus here and a reality that we
can only think of one pool each year. I emphasize again, this doesn't mean we are
against the other three. It is just the realities of the situation. I suggest the
Recreation & Park staff come back with a report and a recommendation from the
Commission as to location, cost, etc.
Councilman Nichols; At the time we were putting the original proposal
together, when we were advocating 4 pools, I spoke
directly with .a high officer of the School District,
which his position may have been, but he conveyed that the school district could not
dscept the placement of a pool individually - one pool at one high school - without
the placement of pools at other high schools. This was one of the strong things
® that contributed to the pools - so I would like to direct a question to Dr. Madden.
Has there been any. contact with the School District officially in West Covina in
terms of their attitude on one pool?
Dr. Madden: No. The Sub -committee has met with .Mr. • Eastman, and
the chairman of the'School Boardcame over and discussed
in general the concepts with us one night.
ADJ. C.C. 6-5-67 Page Nine
SWIMMING POOL REPORT - JOINT MEETING
RECREATION & PARK COMMISSION - Continued
Councilman. Nichols: Mr. Mayor, I would like to take it just one step
further, because I am afraid my initial comments
weighed very heavily on the negative in the terms
of taxation, and not strong enough in the terms of my concept of the terms of the
pool. My personal opinion is that we owe to this, Gommittee and to our interested
publica pledge that this council will:.an fact determine and achieve financing-tffictent
-to-build at least one municipal swimming pool during the session of this current
-counci.l. I would strongly support that, I would not commit to the type of financing
or how it is going to be ready, but that this council should push ahead with the .
clear declaration that we are going to build a swimming pool for this community, I
would support 100%.
Councilman Gleckman: Councilman Nichols in his last remarks took -part of
the comments I wanted to make, but first of all you
brought up the subject of location and .I think within
the City of West Covina I don't think .location is that important unless we make it
that important and I don't think it should be made an issue. .I feel if the necessity is
here for a swimming pool and the recommendation of this. Committee was to start out
with a swimming pool at Edgewood High, tY�itLWh6t.her we agree or disagree individually
•with a particular location, I don't think we should make that the essence of whether
we have a swimming pool or not,. If the necessity is here, the usage is going to be
there and if the :people of this community want to use that pool I don't know of any
location we could put that pool in West Covina and satisfyeverybody or any particular
section of,the City if it is not in their section, but I do think if' they want a public
swimming pool they have the means of transportation and know how to get there no
matter where we put it, so I would not like to see that issue become one of the major
problems or consideration of this council. I would like to adopt the Committee's
recommendation that we start with Edgewood High unless for some unknown reason
we can't get together with the School Board and the West Covina Unified School
District and they would find some objection to that location. But, if it was good
enough for this Committee to come out with it as a prime location to serve the
majority of a particular area until such time there would be a need or funds to build
another pool, I think this is the location we should decide on. .I, too, would not
like to see a circumv@nti0'm' oc the -people. __ Irr thif.s.-.p'arti'rul'ar-.instance when
this city council sits down with our City Manager who has sat down with his staff
and we spend over four million dollars of this. Communitv..,s money, we do not take the
particular issues or monies that we are going to,spend and put it before the people, or
at least sit back and say we can't spend this money because we are circu.mvetiting the
people. -As -far as:I am concerned a swimming pool is 8 years past due and.I think it
will be another 8 years past due if we leave it to the people and I don't mean that I
don't have faith in the people, but in the area of communication, in what to get across
not only to our people, but people in .every community, you neverJ�.t`tl7ke 4;mdfo.rity of
your, community out to vote, only those opposed are sure of going to the polls. So as
far as I am concerned we are not circumventing the people, we have five councilmen
elected at large by the people of this City and we should be able to make this decision
not only because of past performance but because of the needs of this community and
if we have to go back to the people to get them to vote on a pool then we don't need a
® pool. I am not for going back to the people. I don't think .it is necessary. I think
the majority of the people of this City will vote for a pool and I as a city councilman
elected by the people would cast a vote right now for a pool to get started immediately
on the plans for financing and as far as the location, I am willing to go on record for
Edgewood High.
Councilman Gillum: I would like to add this for your information that the
selection of these areas was after considerable amount
of study and survey as to Location.. We, also, on the
Committee were quite curious as to where our neighbors on the Committee were coming
5•-
ADJ. . C. C. 6-5-67
Page Ten ...
from. W�. found we had them from east, north of the freeway, in fact we had members
from throughout the City and it was again an unanimous decision to place it - the first
pool - at Edgewood High. Some of them would be clear across the City from the pool,
but they felt because of the work by the Sub -committees and the information made
available to them, that this would be the best location to start with the pool program.
• Mayor Krieger- Let me go into this aspect a little more deeply. Mr.
Nichols has alluded to it and this is what I am con-
cerned about it. I am not concerned about location
-,Per se. We only have 14-1/2 square miles, we are not that big geographically that
.we will pick a location that will not be accessible to any area of this town. I think
what .is extremely, important is the fact that if we are talking. about a pool that is not
on City owned property and that we have to know for certain with the.T's crossed, the
I's dotted, as to what the working arrangement would be with regards to the use of
that pool. That is what is important, not whether it is Edgewood High or the southeast
or the northwest. I have never looked at this town in this way and I don't think that
anyone that is really attuned to ivha't-far4.going on in the community does, and .I hope
there never is that type of partisanship. If there was I don't see how the five of us
were ever elected, because everybody would choose up their sides and do battle.
It has never worked out quite that way and I hope it will never come to that. , But
when I talk about this as the first locationd think we have to appreciate the fact
that the first recommendation involves property that is not city owned and we would
• have to know for sure as to what type of a working relationship and arrangement we
would .have for the maximum utilization.
Secondly, pertaining to something Mr. Gleckman
brought up, that is the absolute importance of this first pool. - I think this first pool
is going to be the key to the whole program and .I would hate to see us fall flat on
our faces on this first pool for any reason at all. That is why I rather think we should
have -a consensus on this council that we do need a pool, that we are prepared to go
forward with a pool, that we are going to raise the money for a pool, and the question
is are we going to have all the facts to make sure that pool is in the best location
possible for all factors?
Councilman -Snyder: As a matter of protocol, :,Althb-dg'h we,have _ i., :_ c
a Blue Ribbon:. Committee report, ,,we shouldn't circum-
vent the Recreation & Park.. Commission and the staff,
because even though this money. is being earmarked for pools, it is that Commission
and that Department's money, so as a matter of protocol and proper procedure, this
should go back to the Recreation & Park Commission and they should make the
investigation you talked about and come back with a recommendation as to location
of the pool. I think if there is a --consensus we can make a motion that we are in favor
of one pool, but I strongly feel that responsibility should be put back in the Recreation
& Park. Commission's hands and they should make the recommendation back to us in the
budget.
Councilman Gleckman: Why can't we discuss,1t. now while we have them here?
Councilman Snyder: Because I think it has to be discussed as part of their
total program and I don't believe they are prepared
to discuss it.
Councilman Gleckman: Well are we talking about taking some of their money
away from another project in order to pay for a
swimming pool?
Councilman,. Snyder: As a matter of protocol we are taking away some of
their function.
-10.-
ADJ.. C. C. 6-5-67 Page Eleven
SWIMMING POOL .REPORT - JOINT MEETING
RECREATION & PARK COMMISSION - Continued
Councilman Gillum: I think there is probably a point also that no one has
contacted the School Board. We would have to know
this. We should have someone from the staff and the
• Recreation & Park Commission to make these initial contacts and find out if we are in an
area that we can operate and satisfy both parties.
Councilman Nichols: The Recreation & Park Commission is here, the members
4n'&V duaT1y'have-re,a the report and each_, of them;
one absent but we have that report, each have indicated
that they subscribe to the report of the Committee. So I can assume therefore that this
would be in fact their recommendation collectively if they were asked to present it in
that way.
Councilman. Snyder:
But no one has talked to the School District.
Councilman Nichols: No, but I am saying the Recreation & Park Commission
has had an opportunity to look $t this report and has
stated to us their consensus with .it and as far as the
location of the pool I think that is something that cannot be pre -guessed. Mr. Mayor
would,,:a motion be ,in order?
Mayor Krieger: We have had a council discussion.
Motion'by, Councilman .Nichols, seconded by Councilman Gillum, that the council go
on record this evening as stating its intention to construct one municipal swimming
pool for the City of West Covina during the 1967-'68 fiscal year. Motion carried on
roll call vote as follows:
AYES: Councilmen Gillum, Nichols, • Gleckman, Snyder and Mayor Krieger.
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
Motion by Councilman, Nichols, seconded by Councilman. Snyder, that the council
request the Recreation & Park Commission to take the councils' intention under
advisement and working cooperatively with staff prepare for the councils' consideration
the Commissions' recommendation as to the pool specifications and locations.
Mayor Krieger: Is there a time for the return of this report?
Councilman Nichols: This is some matter of urgency, but I don't want to
make an unreasonable request. Mr. Gingrich what
would be the minimum time you would feel the
Commission and staff working cooperatively uvpuld need to meet this request?
Mr.. Gingrich: If we are talking about working drawings then we
need an architect as well; if we are talking about
an architect entering the picture---- but if we
are talking about the concept then about 2 or 3 weeks.
Councilman .Nichols: Mr. Aiassa, would 2 or 3 weeks be in the framework
of the budget?
Mr. Aiassa: Yes. The fourth budget session is the 20th of June
and that is a joint meeting with the Personnel Board.
We could schedule a meeting. for the 22nd of June.
-1.1-
ADJ. 'C. C. 6-5-67 Page 'Twelve
•
1.SWIMMING POOL REPORT - JOINT MEETING
RECREATION & PARK COMMISSION - Continued
Councilman Nichols: It would be my opinion that I would not want to
stipulate,a date prior to the 20th becauseI believe
it would be rushing the Commission.
Mayor Krieger:
Would you want to set a date?
Councilman Nichols: No, only with all due speed,
.Councilman Gledkman: I have a. questfcrn., Mr. Gingrich could you explain
to me what information you would propose to
prepare outside of what they :have already -received?
Mr. Gingrich: I think it would have to be primarily a complete
thorough review of the recommendations of the Blue
Ribbon. Committee. Of course the size and shape
of the pools our staff has worked with .this, we are in complete accord with -the size
and shapes. .As far as coming back with a more accurate dollar value I don't believe
this can be done without the added step of getting working drawings.
Councilman. -Nichols: Councilman Gleckman it was fully my intention that
a major item would be clarified which has not been
mentioned and that is the location and..the implica-
tions of the agreement with the School, District.
Councilman .Gleckman: T Am.' I`= to understand that the Recreation & Park
Commission and/or staff would make the contact
with the School District and talk about'thisi
particular situation prior to us summarizing the location?
Councilman Nichols: Again I should clarify my intention. My -intention
is that our Commissioners will go into this matter
of location, the implications of this location, the
pros and cons of this location, and review this with ,staff, make such contacts that
would be desirable with:School District officials and be prepared, as the right arm
of this council, to come back to us and say we confirm that this is the location and
we are confident based on our conVenatl.a th.at'thi<s' 1 nation
can be worked out, or that "no there are problems and we feel we should give some
thought elsewhere. "
Councilman Snyder: Also they should approach the matter of location
that has been mentioned several times that this
council. only has the power to build one ppol, sc
they should build it as if they are building one pool without consideration to the
others that might or might not be built.
Mayor Krieger: This council has taken the first step only in that
direction and that is in the concept of the one
Opool. I think the next question we have to take
into consideration , when we get this report back, which would be extremely advisable
to have during our budget sessions, is what are we talking about in dollars and what
are we talking about in location.
Councilman -Snyder: That is my next question. The council has said
we willfinance a pool but we have not in fact
said to the Recreation & Park Department or any
other Department that we are going to take any funds away from them that they
have already budgeted. This may or may not be necessary, we don't know.
- 12
ADJ. . C.C. 6-5-67
Page Thirteen',
,,SWIMMING POOL REPORT - JOINT MEETING
RECREATION & PARK COMMISSION - Continued
Mayor. Krieger- We haven't actually budgeted anybody's funds up to
this point,.
• Councilman Snyder- I am only saying. the Recreation & Park should not
revise their budget
Mayor Krieger: :Any further discussion gentlemen?
Motion passed on roll call vote as follows -
.AYES. Councilmen Gillum, Nichols, Gleckman, Snyder, Mayor Krieger
NOES- None
ABSENT- None
(Mayor Krieger declared a 10 minute recess- Council called to order
at9pomo)
PUBLIC AUTHORITY- CIVIC -.CENTER DEVELOPMENT
(Mr, Aiassa, introduced to the council the representatives from Stone
and Youngberg, Mil° .-Hermes Ze1`lu�' anri [ra _ � rell9:-ands a °.Donald
Hodg.e.man.. from O'Maalvany & Myers,E
Councilman Snyder- I hate to inject a depressive note but Trhen we
first embarked on Public Authority for the Civic Center Development
we did it with'the information that our assessed valuation and sales
tax weremonie s enough to pay the cost without an increase in the tax
rate. Well, all indications are, from the state level and in business,
that our assessed valuation may not be increasing that fast and our
sales tax may not be increasing that fast and I am wondering what
our p'arcentage of assessed valuation is this year and what our possible
salee'tax is and if the staff still feels we can embark on this program
with out increasing the tax rate?
Mr, Aiassa- We have actually submitted a balanceibudget and
it will be prepared and drafted for the City
Council and in this budget is included the rental
charge which is. predicated on- our estimate from the computations of
Stone and Youngberg representatives, plus our own staff, and the
figures from the County As's_essors office, lus our estima�es on sales
tax receipts and we can and will operate w thin this year s tax rate
and actually propose the same type of operations that we had in '66m'67,
Councilman Snyder-. The next question and perhaps as a public
official I need not think of this, but building
is down, industry is not building, homes are
not being built and the indications are the economy is going down and
I am wondering if we couldn't get a lower bid if we waited a year?
Mr. Aiassa-. I doubt it. In reviewing the present bid on
the number of bids we had and the fact that we
A we came in with 11.9% under the architect's estimate
we feel have a very good bid,
Mayor Kriegero, Mr, Zelles would you care to respond to that .
question's
Mr. Herman ZelleS I think as Mr. Aiassa pointed out the
Financing Consultants construction bids were certainly excellent bids
San Francisco and some 10 or 11% under the estimate. There
was_ a pretty substantial range if you take the
highest bidder versus the lowest one, And, I think ,you will also notice
on July 1 there will be a number of changes within the construction
13
ADJ. C. Co 6=5-67
Page Fourteen
PUBLIC AUTHORITY: _CIVIC CENTER DEVELOPMENT - Continued
industry in -terms of automatic increases in rates of pay. Most of
the construction costs have been increased at the rate of somewhere
between 4 and 6% a year in the last ten years. There is no reason
to think that it is going to go down. The only reason you got such a
low bid is due to the slow down in home industry and there are a
is
number of contractors available for this type of construction.
Councilman Snyder. That is my point. If we have a further
slow down we will have more hungry contractors.
Major Krieger-, The two pieces of action before the council
tonight on the Public Authority is not the
approval of the construction bids as reported
in the staff report of June 2, this is strictly within the purview of
the Joint -Authority itself. The action before us tonight is, one
w ould be the ground lease and secondly, the building lease, as separate
questions. We have a staff report on these matters, as well as a
proposed resolution, as well as proposed ground and building leases.
I would assume if the council didn't take affirmative action for some
reason on these ground and building leases that the Public Authority
would not then move ahead in this program.
Mr. Zelles-, The.answer is es. Your execution of the
ground and building lease is your part.of
the joint authority and without the execution
on the city°s part the authority has nothing to execute and therefore
nothing to secure the bonds of the authority, so therefore the bonds
would not be saleable inasmuch as there are no leases with the City to
secure the bonds.
The attempt has always been to keep the council
in complete control by a number of steps, first
all the constructions bids were taken, your execution of these leases
is tantamount to authorizing -or instructing the Authority to adopt the
resolution of issuance of the bonds, which we will discuss later on
regarding the action that you will be taking on the 12th of June.
One more authorizaticmon the part of the City Council will actually take
place on the sale date of the bonds, wherein you approve the sale of the
bonds by the Authority before the Authority can actually award the bonds.
So the intent was to have the council always in complete control and to
specifically answer, without the execution of these two documents and
the execution of the approval of issuance by the Authority by the
Council next Monday evening there will be no sale of bonds.
Mayor Krieger-, Thank you -Mr. Zelleso The first item which is
the Ground Lease should be discussed, We have
a staff report. Does the Council have any questions?
Councilman Nichols: I have no questions.
Councilman Gillum:
No questions.,
Councilman Gleckman:
No questions,
Councilman Snyder-.-
My understanding ® if we approve these leases
tonight this in effect gives the Joint Authority
the right to go ahead on approving the bids?
Mayor Krieger:
I assume the procedure m and if this is not
correct please correct us Mr, Hodgeman ® that
the bids remain valid for 90 days and that the Joint Authority will not
consider the actual
award on the construction bid until the revenue
bonds are bid and a
decision is made -on that particular matter, which as
Mr, Zelle% pointed out,
is something the council reserves the right to
approve :in the basic
agreement creating the Joint Authority, am I
correct sir?
Mr. Hodgeman: Yes that is correct,
- 14 -
ADJ. C. C. 6-5-67 Page Fifteen
PUBLIC AUTHORITY-, CIVIC CENTER DEVELOPMENT ® Continued
Councilman Gleckman° Isn°t what we are talking about what. Mr. Zelles
just said takes plane on the 12th of June_?
Mr. Hodgeman: That is correct. We have split up these steps.
We ask you to approve these leases tonight.
• We want to hold off on the document until the
12th although it is actually ready tonight. We would ask you to
approve that and then you have two more approvals when the bids are
opened. You would approve the sale of the bonds and when the bonds
are sold you would approve the award of the construction contract.
Councilman Gleckman: What are we talking about in time, regarding
the last two items?
Mr. Zell es: The time schedule calls for the following:
We will meet again at next Monday evening's
meeting, at which time you will adopt the
resolution approving the form of the resolution of the Authority calling
for the sale of the bonds. The Authority will meet on the 14th of June
their regular meeting -date, and at that time adopt the resolution of
issuance that you approved on Monday, and will also adopt a notice on
the bids providing for the sale of bonds. .
• Mayor Krieger-, These are the reOue bonds?
Mr. Zelliea: Yes these are the revenue bonds. The sale
date of the bonds is scheduled for Monday,
July 17, 1967, at 2 in the afternoon, at
which time the secretary of the Authority will open the bond bids
and we will be repared to calculate the bids.to be sure the are
correct. CouncH will meet that evening and we will report io you the
results of the.bond bids ° you. then, assuming you wish to proceed, will
approve the issuance of the bonds by the Authority and the Authority
will convene at 8:30 that evening or thereabouts and make the award of
the bonds to the successful bidder and at that time award the
construction contract, The construction contract has not been awarded
and will not be awarded until such time as the bonds have been sold.
This is to prevent or preclude the City or Authority to involve itself
in a liability of payment on the construction contract when the
financing has yet to be secured,
Councilman Gillum: The County does not have�to approve?
Mr. Zelles:, No, the Joint Powers Agreement provides the
only approval required is the person responsible
on their buildings, on the lease. They follow the same procedures
Councilman Snyder: Again, as a public official I should be
optimistic and not depressed, but I am
concerned about the state of economy in California and I am not as
enthusiastic about going ahead with this program as I was. I will vote
for it if the majority of the council does, but I wouldn't otherwise,
and I will say this, you all know I worked enthusiastically for it
originally.
Councilman Gillum: Dr. Snyder I think you will remember when we
® discussed this, the point was brought up, in
fact this was one of the things that made me change my thinking from
general obligation to joint powers was the fact the longer wait the
cost of labor and material would eat up anything we would hope to save.
Councilman Snyder-, Yes, but the apparent weakness in California
economy was not as apparent then.
Councilman Gillum: Well inflation is here and it is going up each
year.
® 15
ADJ. C. C. 6-5-67
Page Sixteen
PUBLIC AUTHORITY: CIVIC CENTER DEVELOPMENT m Continued
Councilman Snyder: I am in no position knowledgeable or otherwise
to really judge this. I am a little concerned
about embarking on a project of this type when
the State itself is deep in the hole.
• Mr. Zelies: I think the reason, referring to the State
Water Plan problems that they are having,
very simply was that there wasn't an allowance
in the State construction costs for escalation that put the State in
the position it is right now.
Councilman Snyder: No what 7I am talking about is the thing that
is going to pay for this ® mainly sales tax.
Mr. Zell 3: Well that is true, but the lease payments
of the City for that matter will not be
required until 2 years from July. That is
when the first payment will be due. During the period of construction
and for a period of one year thereafter the cost has all been funded.
So if there is any satisfaction in knowing when the Community itself
is going to be responsible on the leases . . . even though the City
through the City Manager is making arrangements for that now.
• Councilman Snyder:
may have committed
make sure.
Mr. Zell ea:
Councilman Snyder:
I am only giving an opinion and I think it is
something we should think about each step we
go along and once we have taken this step we
ourselves to something we cannot pay. I want to
I think certainly the City has the capacity
for repayment. I don't know but I would ask a
question of Mr. Fast
But not if our sales tax falls off.
Mr. Zelless This is true, but as far as the bondholder is
concerned there is certainly ample security
as far as the City of West Covina within your
general tax power there_ are all these things that secure the bonds.
But I was just sort of wondering if we had these bids all over again
would the same low bidder - would he give you the bid all over again?
Mr. Fast: Well the whole picture of the construction
industry has been one that has climbed ever
since the depression of 1929. There has
been a dip segmentally and the last three years residential has
fallen off but commercial industry has held up. Insofar, as the bid
spread, we had very close competition in the first five bidders. The.
spread in general is very normal and is something I personally have
witnessed and recognized as normal in bidding in the last ten years.
I would be the last one to say that we will ever get another bid this
low whether we wait one week or one year. History just doesn't say
that.
Mayor Krieger: This is just the unknown factor. I appeared
before the Board of Supervisors on several
occasions as a representative of this council
® on this subject matter and this question you raised was raised five or
six months ago on the Board of Supervisors by one of the members of
the Board concerned with this problem, and here he had the Chief
Administrative 0 ficer of the County sitting right in front of him who
is always attun-d to the financial questions the same as our City
Manager is, and as well as the County Council, as well as their
whole staff and their consensus feeling, as I remember it expressed,
16
ADJ. C.C. 6-5-67
Page Seventeen
PUBLIC AUTHORITY: CIVIC CENTER DEVELOPMENT ® Continued
was that this was a
particularly good timeasfay' as public buildings
were concerned, government projects and programs of this type. I
don't think the economy bascially has changed in regard to that
philosphy and I think the best evidence we have is the very return
•
we got on the bids.
Councilman Snyder:
I would like to correct a statement of fact
regarding history, it depends on how far you
go back. If you went back to 1930 you could
have buildings built by WPA.
Mr. Zelles:
I think the Doctor°s point is well taken,
you are concerned about cost and you have
to be, there is no question about it,
Councilman Snyder:
I am concerned mainly about our levelling
off of sales tax, which is what I am really
concerned about.
Mr. Zellless
If you stay in the same level you are at now
I think you will still be alright.
•
Councilman Gleckman:
I have more faith in the future then Dr.
Snyder does_ and as far as our sales tax is
concerned I think once the ground breaking
takes place, and the
retail and commercial areas know of our
progressing in this
way with a new Civic Center and Police Facility
that I think we will
then be in even better position to invite bigger
and better business
into our community and add to our sales tax rather
than going the other
way.
Councilman Snyder:
I didn't say I haven't any faith in the future,
I am talking about the reality and the immediate
future,
Mayor Krieger:
Does that compplete the discussion on the
council in Ms matter? Any further questions?
RESOLUTION NO, 3588 The Deputy City Clerk presented:
"A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF
ADOPTED
THE CITY OF WEST COVINA OF CALIFORNIA
APPROVING THE WEST COVINA
ADMINISTRATIVE AND POLICE BUILDING
GROUND LEASE."
Mayor Krieger:
Hearing no objection, waive further reading of
the body of the resolution.
Motion by Councilman Gleckman, seconded by Councilman Gillum, that the
council adopt said resolution. Motion carried on roll call vote as
follows:
AYES: Councilmen Gillum, Nichols, Gleckman, Snyder, Mayor Krieger
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
Mayor Krieger.- With regard to the Building Lease, Any
questions?
Councilmen Gillum, Nichols, Snyder and Gleckman, answered "no questions."
Mayor Krieger: I have a question Mr, Zelles, The base rent of
$1989200 per annum is predicated on what type
of expectancy?
17
ADJ. C. C. 6®5®67 Page Eighteen
PUBLIC AUTHORITY-, CIVIC CENTER DEVELOPMENT m Continued
Mr. Zelluso Based on an estimated rate of 4m3/4%.
Mayor Krieger-, Without putting you on the record or on the
spot m do you have any idea this evening
• where we are in the market right now?
Mr, Zelles-, With today's events a lot of things have
happened. To give you some sort of an
indication there was a bond sale this
morning by the San Bernardino City Schools, a 20 year bond issue
double AA rated and I believe it was five million dollars-, and the
net is 3.91. Now remember we are talking about a much shorter bond
than this and one with a considerably higher bond rating. I would
hopefully say that if these bonds were selling today we would be in
that range of 4-1/2 - 4-3/4. We really don't know. It is like
baking a cake, the time to know is when you take it out of the oven
and test it. We believe we are considerably high at the time we
made our projections. The market is very fluid and changing all
the time. This amount of $198,200 is not a fixed amount. It is an
adjustable amount and will be reduced or increased, hopefully not,
based on the actual bond bids received by the Authority. There is
an exhibit that appears m Item 12 in the book, and is reference to
• the fact that this item will be adjusted on the basis of the actual
bond bids,
Mayor Krieger-, There is nothing in the report or material
whether this was predicated on a conservatively
high?
Mr, Zelles-, We would hope it is conservatively high,
Councilman Gillum-, When they open up the bond bids and for some
reason they are over 5% and we reject them
then what is the. next step?
Mr. Zelles-, You have a certain period of time to reoffer
the bonds for _sale again ® the Authority does.
The only thing that mitigates in this respect
Is that the construction bid is only good for 90 days from the 24th
of May, which brings you to August 23 or 24th. If you could not secure
a better bid for the bonds by the 24th of August then the contractor
cannot be held to that bid and you would have to resubmit your
construction bids again and go through the whole procedure all over
again.
Mayor Krieger-, Is there anything economically inconsistent of
a low construction bid and a high bond interest
rate? What I am trying to determine is whether
there is any relationship between the market of economics between what
we have experienced on the construction bid and.what we might
anticipate on the bond issue?
Mr. Zelles-, I don't believe there is. We are in a period
of reasonably high level of rates. This is
what we use to measure, like the Dow -Jones
at the end of last week was 3.96. The highest it has ever been in
33 years was what it reached in September of last year 4.24. The
curve has been going up, It came down to 3,50 something in February
of this year and then started to climb up again and is up to 3.96.
I don't know whether this parallels the construction curve or not. I
don't think there is a parallel. The economy jumps around so much
and the bond market seems to move with it. We have seen greater swings
in the bond market percentagewise than we have in past years. The
range of 1/2% in less than 3 months is really pretty large when you
normally expect to see these things change only ,051* step from one
week to the next,
•
•
a
ADJ. C.C. 6®5-67 Page Nineteen
PUBLIC AUTHORITY: CIVIC CENTER DEVELOPMENT m Continued
Councilman Snyder:
Mr. Zelles:
bids coming in 30
the high outside
see his bids come
Mayor Krieger:
There is a misconception that we got a lower
construction bid, we are really within 10%
of the architect's estimate and that is
considered normal.
Well on one thing you are talking percentage
and absolute numbers on the other.
Actually 10% o., we have seen some construction
to 40% above the estimates. I think 10% would be
I don't think any architect would be to happy to
in lower than that.
by our City Attorney as
Mr. Hodgeman:
Any further questions or discussion on this
Administrative and Police Building lease?
Mr. Hodgeman, I understand this was reviewed
to the form of the lease?
Yes that is correct.
RESOLUTION N0,3589 The Deputy City Clerk presented:
"A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF
ADOPTED THE CITY OF WEST COVINA, CALIFORNIA,
APPROVING THE WEST COVINA
ADMINISTRATIVE AND POLICE BUILDING
LEASE."
Mayor Krieger: Hearing no objection, waive further reading of
the body of the resolution.
Motion by Councilman Gillum, seconded by Councilman Gleckman, that the
council adopt said resolution. Motion carried on roll call vote as
follows:
AYES: Councilmen Gillum, Nichols, Gleckman, Snyder, Mayor Krieger
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
Mr. Zel].es;: This is really for information purposes only,
no action needed. Just a little history.
There is a third party involved called a
Trustee. The purpose of the trustee is to hold the funds during
construction and also receive the rent payments by the City and then
make disbursements to the bondholders m principle interest on the
bonds and to invest the various funds involved that the Authority has,
This places all the money in a Trusteeship so there is no one
individual that holds the funds,, Payment to the contractor for_his
construction progres payments are paid by the trustee only on the
certificate of the architect and your engineer as to the fact the
work has been petformedo' Originally the County thought they would
be involved in a Trusteeship. On their part they elected to act on a
trusteeship in their own capacity. We didn't particularly feel that
we would prefer to have it this way, and the end result was that the
Trustee proposals would have covered a greater number of banks
involved had the County also wished to be involved because we thought
we might be able to effect certain savings by having both parties
involved than to act on their own Trustee. We in turn then made a
request of three banks, U.C,B,, Security First National Bank, and the
Bank of America, setting forth certain requirements and asking for
certain costs on their part to act in this capacity.
You gentlo-men should have a copy of our letter
which set forth the various requirements of the Trustee, We then in
turn calculated the various costs involved to act as Trustee and the
Bank of America ® their costs were the lowest and on that basis we
�F�
ADJ. Co Co 6-5-67 Page Twenty
PUBLIC AUTHORITY-0 CIVIC CENTER DEVELOPMENT ® Continued
assume the Authority will award the trusteeship to the Bank of
America. This is important because the trustee is actually named
in the documents and therefore the trustee should be selected before
the resolutbn of issuance is actually adopted by the Authority, which
they will do on the 14th of this month. Again no action on your part
this is so you will just be totally informed.
Mayor Krieger: The action of the council on the 12th will.
specifically set forth the Bank of America.?
Mr. Zelleso Yes, The resolution of issuance, I believe it
just arrived and one of the reasons we didn't
want you to adopt it this evening, so that
you would have an opportunity to look it over. Perhaps maybe I can
just briefly summarize what this contains.
Basically, what it is is a definition of the
bonds of the Authority and also it indicates what the disposition of
the bond proceeds will be, What amount goes into the various funds.
The creation of the construction fund, the reserve fund, the interest
during construction, makes provision for the issuance of additional
bonds, and sets forth the various requirements that have to be met
before additional bonds can be issued. It also makes provision for
• the redemption of the bonds and this is an important thing. As I
indicated before we are in a period of high interest rates and there
is really only one thing you can do in this sort of a situation and
that is to make provision in your bonds that should -the interest rates
seek a much lower level you have the ability to refund these. This
we have done by putting in a reasonably liberal call provision that
says in effect that after these bonds are in effect for a period of
1hh2 years they can be redeemed, whatever is outstanding at that time,
i ourlra eeisa�onJdaera�i ytlowernand ca�culationstare a�`est a�mi ow9
would be more economical to refund and that you have the ability to do
this, you are not fixed contracturally for the next 30 years at the
rates ..that you have bid at the 17th of July. This is the only thing
you can do to be sure you have flexibility and the thing we wanted
to be sure was that you would have this flexibility. We believe the
call provision is liberal enough so that the bonds will not be penal-
ized by making it too severe in terms of time. Generally 10 to 15
years. _You would not have them callable any sooner than that. To do
so you would impose a pretty heavy penalty upon the issue of the
bond, to call in 5 years or something like that. Again we say these
bonds are actually weighed in the long end that the block of the bonds
really come due considerably after 1979 and that is when the first
call provision can be made.
Mayor Krieger: Any questions on Mr. Zelles's report? Mr.
.Zellus, why would not a sophisticatEd bidder
take this under consideration at the bidding?
Mr. Zell.es: He does.
Mayor Krieger: Then it would necessarily at least, have
some marginal effect on ��e bid?
Mr, Zelles: I am not sure I understand your question, The
® call provision is important,
Mayor Krieger: The bidder is certainly aware of that then?
Mr. Zelles: Oh yes, The call provision is mentioned a
half a dozen times,
Mayor Krieger: And recognizing that provision exists in these
bonds the bidder would take that provision
into consideration as far as his bid on these
bonds is concerned?
® 20
ADJ. C.C. 6-5-67
Page Twenty-one
•
PUBLIC AUTHORITY.- CIVIC CENTER DEVELOPMENT m Continued
Mr. Zelles.- Yes, if the call provision is too short. this
will be reflected in the bids
Mayor Krieger-. If the bulk of the money is not inhe-rent in
the bond issue until 1979,.why is not the
bidder influenced by that factor?
Mr. Zelles-. To answer your question you have to understand
who buys these kinds of bonds. The investor
generally speaking calls on a number of
categories. By and large you have the short term investor from l to
10 or 15 years. These are prinaipzklLly your banks. They, of course,
want to be sure that their mon�q will be at work for this period of
time. Your other investor is your long term investor, principally
your investment funds, insurance companies, trusts of one type or
another and their investment portfolios are -very long, generally 25
to 30 years and to that extent they work on an average life basis so
that if their average life can be equal to or greater than half of
the material of the bonds this satisfies their requirements.
Inasmuch, as things are being turned over all the time, half would
be approximately 15 years and we felt with the market being as high
as it is that we would like to have the City in the position -of having
a little shorte-r period of call, so we split the difference. I might
add that when a person gets a bond recalled he is paid a premium for
the call of the bond. It is on a formula basis. 1/4 of 1% each year
from the year of call to -the time the bond was actually due. If -the
bond was called 12 years prior to the maturity date, he would receive
he face amount of the bonds, 1us a remium of 3%. In other words
for ea.�h year divided into 1 . As �ong as you provide for reasonable
payment on the call this will not affect the sale, but if you make the
call too shot this would hurt ou I think asgoaipra9tichaalv�maatte hin
you have o nave some reassuran e tha you are ng g
to call the bonds with in 5 years from now. Some windfall. Normally,
speaking this is going to be paid for out of your general revenues
and I don't think you are anticipating this sort of thing taking place.
Councilman Gillum-. Is this normally done with the majority of
bond sales?
Mr. Zelll.es Everyone we,deal with. With certain exceptions.
-I t.hii;_nk certain school bonds as a rule are not
calked, because the presumption is you have to
have something to call it with. There are numerous things available
to the City in the way of funds* who knows what may happen in time;
Councilman Gillum-. The time determined, you determined yourself?
Mr. Zellee-. The period of when it will be callable, yes.
This was one of the reasons we wanted to
delay this document as long as we could.
We wanted to be sure the way the market was going.
Councilman Gillum. What determines in your mind the present time
to have this set for recall? What determined
12 years, what did you use for a guide?
Mr. Zelles-.. Our guide was that you certainly can't go any
less than 10 years and 15 was certainly a
possibility, but the way the current bonds
are being sold we felt making it shorter than the 15 years would not
materially affect the sale of the bonds in term of having a.higher
interest rate and would provide the City with a little more flexibility.
Councilman Gillum.- In other words basically then it was almost
an educated guess on past -experience in the
bond market?
Mr. Zellee.- We were in consultation with our own bond
trading department, they deal with these
thingsoevery day of the week.
ADJ. C.C. 6-5-67 Page Twenty -.two
PUBLIC AUTHORITY-, CIVIC CENTER DEVELOPMENT ® Continued
Mayor Krieger-, I might commend when we were interviewing
the bond consultants, 3 or 4 years ago, one of the
material elements that attracted us to Stone
and Youngberg was the fact that they were the only ones: in my
remembrance that mentioned the feature of a call in a municipal bond,
As being an attractable feature. This was certainly one of the
features of the discussion that they were considering this so far ahead.
Mr. Zelles-, I think a call provision is something that
once it becomes history you really can't do
anything about it. There are agencies who
don't have call provisions and it is just physically impossible to
bring the bonds in other than trying to buy on the market at face
value and generally speaking these are very high interest bonds with
high yields and whoever owns them is not willing to give them up.
To go on, the rest of the document, which
sets forth the bond itself, what it will look
like, etc. Then a use of reference, which
tells the trustee what he has to do with the money that comes in each
year, the various funds he must allocate this money to, and then finally
a covenant of the Authority, wherein they make a lot of promises to pay
the princ:L.ple and interest on time, maintain insurance, maintain proper
records, give an accounting of the funds received each year, also
• look in on the city budget each year to be sure you have allocated
monies for the payment of your rent payments each year, and also this
sets forth limitations on the debt. The next items are relative to what
the capita, surplus must be, what happens if the tt°ustee wishes to be
released, how you appoint a successor trustee, etc, Mr, Hodgeman, Mr.
Powell and myself, we labored over this document for quite sometime.
I won't say they are completely original, but this is a contract
actually between the Authority and the bondholder and this iz what
the bondholder relies on for the Authority performance and the
Authority relies on this lease with the City to pay its rent to secure
its document here. There is a fee and that is stated in here and this
will go out to you tomorrow.
These fees are calculated on the basis of the
entire bond issue, but to give you some idea I will quickly go through
this. (Mr. Zellus then listed some of the fees, again stating the
council would have all this tomorrow and they could then -study it.)
Councilman Snyderf The funds from the initial sale of the bonds,
can they be put on a time deposit?
Mr. Zelles-, They can be deposited in time deposits, yes.
The investment is the responsibility of the
trustee, however, I am sure the trustee has no
objection i-n working with your own Director of Finance, in terms of
where you would like to see them deposited. There are certain
limitations as to where they can go. You can't ut them in the Home
Savings & Loan or something like that, He is obligated to provide
you with the highest return that he can.
Councilman Snyder: There is a term in that aggreement which
obligates him to thiP? (Answer: Yes)
Mr, Zelleso There is a summary sheet that goes with the
. three proposals and youcan see why.we talked
about these various fees, the cottrolling fee
is actually the annual fee and the lower one was the Bank of America
ust slightly under $15,000; the second was United California Bank at
19,000; and the Security First National at $21,400. And if you
average this over a 30 year period it doesn't amount to a great deal
of money. I might add that the fees of the -trustee will generally be
recovered from the interest earnings held in deposit by the Authority
so they are not looking for additional rent from the City. There will
be substantial sums of money, mainly the reserve fund, which will be
22
ADJ. Coco 6-5-67
Page Twenty- three
PUBLIC AUTHORITY: CIVIC CENTER DEVELOPMENT ® Continued
equal to a half years rent and also the fact that you make your rent
payment annually in advance of the time which the Authority must make
the principle interest payment on the bonds, so there will be
sufficient funds to cover the cost of the trustee and in fact with the
interest earnings and the reserve fund held on deposit the probabilities
are you will be able to shorten the life of this contract by probably a
year or so
Mayor Krieger: Is there further questions of Mr. Zellus, or
Mr. Hodgeman on the oral presentation? Is
there anything you want to add Mr, Hodgeman?
Mr. Iodgeman: No there isn't. The resolution was not
handed out tonight, although it is ready and
Mr. Williams will be here next weeks I will
not, but Mr. Williams can answer any questions you may have.
Mayor Krieger: We will then defer this matter for the action
this council has to take until next Monday
night.
Mr,, Zel ess I might add Mr. Mayors neither Mr. Powell
nor I will be here at the meeting of the
12th. You can have our assurances that
we are completely satisfied with the text of the resolition of
issuance which you will be adopting, as to form. We will be in
attendance on the 14th when all the actions that the Authority must
take will be taken. Namely, the execution of their half of your
leases and this document here.
Mayor Krieger: Thank you Mr. Zelles, Mr, Hodgeman and Mr,
Powell, We appreciate your being here this
evening.
DEL NORTE.PARK LAND ACQUISITION
a) Easement with William R. Hinrichs
Motion by Councilman. Gl.Pe�kman, sPrnn(iPd by Councilman Gillum, and carried
that this matter of the easement with Mr. Hinrichs be held over
to the councl.L meeting of June 12, 19670
b) Gonne Property
Mr. Aiassa: The City Attorney was able to complete this
lease Mr. Mayor, and I made a rough draft of
the provisions of the lease. It covers pretty
well the elements outlined to the council and the reasonwe would like
to make this a kind of urgency matter is that we have a problem in that
Mr. Gonnees health is failing. The lease is a combination. It also
has a provision where we are providing a lease from June to January
paying a fee of seven hundred and some odd dollars and our first payment
to Mr. Gonne will be made in July of 1967. The second payment will be
made in January.
Motion by Councilman Snyder, seconded by Councilman Gillum, and carried,
that the council authorize the Mayor and City Clerk to execute the said
lease with an opti6n to purchase from Edward S. Gonne, a widower.
APPROVAL OF_5 YEAR _PUBLIC WORKS PROGRAM
Mr, Aiassa: We have a one ,year report for the council and
we have completed the 1966-'67 physical portion.
Mr. Fast will pass it out to you. We also have
- 23
ADJ. Coco 6-5-67
Page Twenty-four
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0
APPROVAL OF 5 YEAR PUBLIC WORKS PROGRAM m Continued
budgeted the 167®868 portion of the 5 year plan. This will probably
be discussed during the budget meetings which have been scheduled.
If any of the councilmen have questions on the Q66m°67 portion they
are attached to this and you might want to bring it with you when
we have our budget session on this review. I would like to advise
that we have been rather successful in completing most of the projects
as outlined in the °66®°67 program and also fortunate enough to be
able to budget most of the projects in °67®°680
Mayor Krieger-.
I assume we will get into these specifics
at the budget sessions,
Councilman Gillum: A question of the staff, On Azusa from the
wash to the Freeway, they are putting in a
storm drain, are they also going to lower the
crown?
(Mr. Fast advised they were that it was authorized by the council in
the contract,)
RESOLUTION NO. 3590 The Deputy City Clerk presented -
"A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF
ADOPTED THE CITY OF WEST COVINA FINDING THAT
IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST, CONVENIENCE
AND NECESSITY REQUIRE THE ACQUISITION
OF CERTAIN PROPERTY FOR STREET PURPOSES
FOR LARK ELLEN AVENUE,"
Mayor Krieger: Hearing no objection, waive further reading
of the body of the resolution.
Motion by Councilman Gleckman, seconded by Councilman Gillum, that -the
council adopt said resolution. Motion carried on roll call vote as
follows:
AYES- Councilmen
gOES: Councilman
ABSENT: None
ANNEXATION NO. 195
Gillum, Gleckman, Snyder, Mayor Krieger
Nichols
Motion by Councilman Gleckman, seconded by
carried, that the council request LAFC to
months time to Annexation 195.
COMMISSION APPOINTMENTS
Councilman Gillum, and
grant the extension of six
Motion by Councilman Gleckman, seconded by Councilman Gillum, and carried,
that the council adjourn to an executive session dealing with Commission
appointments at 9:55 p.m.
(Meeting reconvened in Council Chambers)
COUNCIL COMMITTEE REPORTS
Councilman Gillum: It seems we have a group concerned about the
trees and they have written letters to Mrs,
Johnson, Secretary Udall and have received
letters of support from them. I would like to see this council send
letters to these people stating the reasons we have come to these
conclusions or the reasons these statements have been made.
Councilman Snyder- Do we know?
24
ADJ C.C. 6-5-67 Page Twenty-five
COUNCIL COMMITTEE REPORTS m Continued
Councilman Gillumo Well these were the recommendations of the
Recreation & Park and the Blue Ribbon
Committee and I think it has put the City of
West Covina in a bad light with the Secretary and Mrs. Johnson in her
push to beautify the countryside of the United States.
• Councilman Snyder: But as a matter of fact, probably some under
secretary away down the line probably read
the letter.
Councilman Gillums Well this may be so, but it was put in the
paper and stated publicly a.letter from
Secretary Udall, and parts of it were -in the
Los Angeles Times and I just feel that the City of West Covina should
make the facts known to these two officials and also to the Governor
of the State of California, because he had received letters from this
group. I would like to make it in the form of a motion with the
Mayor signing the letters and send a letter to Secretary Udall, Mrs.
Johnson, and Governor Reagan, outlining the reasons this problem
exists and the reasons we have before us for considering such action.
Mayor Krieger: Is there a second to the motion? Motion dies
for lack of a second.
Councilman Gillum: Well then I am going to inform the council
that I am going to do it on my own as a
city councilman of the City of West Covina.
Mayor Krieger: I don't know whether we can stop you, but I
will indicate my own personal feelings. This
was a unilateral act by certain people in the
City, they can write letters to whomever they want and I don't think we
can defend ourselves before Secretary Udall or Mrs, Johnson. We are
responsible only to the people who elect us. None of those people are
even voters in the City of West Covina and in their official capacity
they don't have any jurisdiction over the City of West Covina,
Councilman Gillum: I am very well aware of that Mr. Mayor, but
I am also aware that these letters have appeared
the Secretary and others have been made public
in the newspapers and I think it puts us in a bad light if it appears
that the City of West Covina has no thought for beautification, no
thought for trees and
llif we are going to consider asking the Federal
d c t o hfnkerii JR ds for eautifiiation,it would b� a little
a 9 p ple were o see if we ecide o
route, that we are saying ®well we are going to take so much of this
money and cut down these trees o...
Councilman Snyder:
Are you mad at the Federal Government or the
person that answered the letters? Why don9t
you writs letters to the person who wrote
the letters? If you read
the letters carefully though they answered
prudently and it is apparent they answered just to agree with them,
Mayor Krieger:
The trouble is Councilman Gillum, I think it
just gives too much credence to the whole thing
and all it will do is we will get publicity
back again.
Councilman Gillum:
Let me say ® this has been the expression of
many people who served on the committee and
served as commissioners on the board, that
I bring this up before the
council. They are concerned about it,
Mayor Krieger:
As private citizens thh have luxur that
you don t have as a cit councilman, hey
have the luxury of turning around and writing
to Governor Reagan or Mrs-.
Jahnsa-n_or the Secretary, if they want.
25
ADJ. C.C. 6-5-67 Page Twenty -Six
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C�
COUNCIL COMMITTEE'REPORTS ® Continued
The trouble is this office carries a certain amount of responsibility.
I don't know who r-ead the letters in each one of the offices, but I am
quite sure it was not the person to whom it was addressed, but if they
get a letter from you I wouldn't be the least bit surprised that it
would be read by the Govenor, or Mrs. Johnson, or.Secretary Udall, and
they will say what is this all about, why is a councilman from the
City of West Covina writing me, telling me about why he did something,
Councilman Gillum: I still feel that we should make our point
clear. The letters did come from their offices.
I am sure what you are saying if they didn't
see it, maybe it is time they see what is going on down the line,
because this letter carries some weight with citizens in the community
who were not aware of what was going on or why these decisions were
made.
Councilman Snyder: If you read the letter,,,,
Councilman Gillum.- I did read the letter Dr. Snyder,
Councilman Snyder: Well if you interpret the letter - they only
answered on unilateral knowledge. They
didn't attempt to get both sides of the question.
Obviously, it was just a political answer.
I think by answering them back we are giving credence as the Mayor
said, and making it even more political.
Councilman Gillum: If it is the majority feeling of the council
that I should not participate in this then
I will not, but I think the council is wrong,
-- in not making. its action known,
Mayor Krieger: I think the failure of the motion to get a
second speaks as far as the council body is
concerned. I know that each one of us
personally reacted and sometimes it requires restraint to hold
yourself back but sometimes it is surprising what the title of the
office means when you are communicating with some.of these people.
I ob4ect because it injects theseeople in a situation that they
didn t belong in - they just didn't have any choice, they didn't come
in because they wanted too, they came in because somebody brought them
in. If we allow them to stay in we are just abetting the situation
that never should have started. I think some of these people are
getting a vicarious kick - all of a sudden they find their names in
the paper, they have never been in the papers before.
Councilman Gillum: I think, honestly gentlemen, that we do not
give enough credit to the person behind the
movement to save the trees.
Air Show yesterday and Mikeallso ant t r ort the I w t to the
y y Mora es sa?d say "h ", to was really
a fine show.
Also, Mr, Aiassa, is it possiblE to make
copies of this report on the business license information available
to the Chamber of Commerce so that it may be forwarded to them as
soon as possible - about 20 copies, so their committee can go over it?
(Agreed)
Sign Ordinance?
Mr, Menard:
the report of
instructed me
Public Hearing
Another question - what happened to the
Three informational discussions have come
before the Planning Commission, At the
last Planning Commission meeting they accepted
the Planning staff, at least formally accepted it and
to codify the ordinance and it will be presented for a
at the meeting of the 21st of June,
-26m
ADJ. C.C.. 6-5-67
Page Twenty- Seven
•
0
COUNCIL COMMITTEE REPORTS - Continued
Mr. Aiassa: Mr. Mayor, I would like to make a suggestion.
With regard to the Business License report by
the staff, I would prefer to ha Ve the Committee
duly appointed by the council review this material.
Mayor Krieger: The council committee on the Business License
is Dr. Snyder and Mr. Gillum. The Council
Committee on the budget i-s.Mr. Gillum and
Mr. Gleckman.
Councilman Snyder: How many in number of business licenses are
there in the City?
Lela Preston: About 1400 - 1500 roughly.
Deputy City Clerk
Councilman Snyder: What is the membership of the Chamber?
Phil Wax: About 335.
Motion by Councilman Gillum, seconded by Councilman Gleckman, and
carried, that the council adjourn at 100035 p.m., to June 8th at
7e 30 p.m.
ATTEST:
Deputy City Clerk
APPROVED
MAYOR
- 17