12-05-1966 - Regular Meeting - Minutesn
U
MINUTES OF THE ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
CITY OF WEST COVINA, CALIFORNIA
DECEMBER 5, 1966
The adjourned regular meeting of the City Council was called to order
by Mayor Krieger at 7:30 o'clock P.M. in:the West Covina City Hall,
Councilman Nichols led the Pledge of Allegiance,,
ROLL CALL
Present; Mayor Krieger, Councilmen Gillum, Nichols,
Snyder (from 8:00), Gleckman (from 7:50)
Others Present: Mr,, George Aiassa, City Manager
Mr,, Robert Flotten, City Clerk & Admin. Assistant
Mr,, Herman R. Fast, Public Services Director
Mr,, Wallace Austin, Planning Associate
Mr,, Byron Larson, Traffic Engineer
GENERAL PLAN CONTRACT
Mayor Krieger: We have had presented to usLthis
•evening a preliminary draft No,, 4
which has been reviewed by the staff again and some changes effected in
it and we have a memo of December 2, 1966,
City Manager, Mr Aiassa.- The City Attorney has reviewed it.
He has accepted it with one
exception; he doesn't believe the underlining in the agreement necessary,
Councilman Gillum: On the San Bernardino Freeway
Interchange and Land Use, Under
B, Revision of General Plan for West Covina, does this refer to what we
are talking about on this board now? This is on Page 9 under A.
City Manager, Mr, Aiassa: This will interplay on either plan
we take or modification of the
plan, There will be a zoning problem and land use study problem,
Councilman Nichols: I have reviewed the amended
proposal dated December 2nd
word for word,, I note that there were three changes present in the
revision that were not present in the earlier form of the proposed
contract,, One was the correction on Phase IC8 simply adding a number
that would be on Page 4 and that had been omitted on the earlier draft.
The number 8 was added to the final paragraph to indicate that there
will be a charge of $3,190 for the compiling of the work done in the
paragraphs earlier. Then on Page 9, bottom half of. Item 2 has been
•added and the General Plan Report will be prepared by consultants,
This is an addition "and will be amended by consultants if necessary
to conform to decisions of the Planning Commission and/or City Council
Then in the original contract on Page 6, whether it was
inadvertent or intent, the last three lines on that page were deleted:
"This preliminary plan when approved will be valuable as a guide to
more detailed planning and action program," I don't find any other
revisions,
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C, Co 12/S/66 Page Two
GENERAL PLAN CONTRACT - Continued
0 City Manager, Mr, Aiassa; I believe that is correct,
Councilman Nichols; I would have to say in all honesty
in order to voice all the
criticisms that I have of these proposals for the expenditure of a
minimum of $52,000 and the indicated expenditure of 'at least several
thousand dollars more, I would have to vo over them by item and it would
be time consuming, I would summarize my belief that if I were absolutely
assured that all of the funds to pay for this study were coming from
the Federal government or some other source I would not want to approve
this agreement because I would have a greater feeling for the use of
other people's money than my approval of this agreement as it stands
Would involve, If it involved using City funds, again my sincere
feeling is that we will be spending a great deal of money paying some
gentleman to put together much of what is already available to us here and
in our own community, and I cannot help but .feel that if this study
is implemented in this framework it will also constitute a gift of
public funds, I can't support it, We started out originally with a
mandate to staff to update our existing General Plan, Then proposals
were made that there might be some funds available from some other
source and that in order to utilize those funds to update our. General
Plan it would involve a rather expanded study. This appears to me to
be a collection of practically every type of activity that one could
conceivably; think of that might involve a look-see in the City of West
Covina from traffic studies to just about everything that we have ever
• done and paid for before and thought of doing in the future,
Mayor Krieger:
who was the Chairman of the ad hoc
the Plannning'Commission is present
I. would invite you, Mr. Mayfield,
care to make at this time,
I think the record should reflect
that Mr, Allison D. Mayfield,
committee of the General Plan from
with the Council this evening,
to add any comments that you would
Mr. Allison D, Mayfield: I might say as Chairman of the
ad hoc committee'I came into
mntact a little later with this project than you gentlemen. It was
our conclusion that a consultant service would be of considerable
value, As I understand from Councilman Nichols, one of your principal
concerns is duplication of effort, the diversity of the coverage that.
is proposed here to develop an updated General Plan, The need for the
Lpdating.of the General Plan, I believe, was recognized'by the Council.;
that there are certain elements of. our 1960 plan that demanded
attention, For one thing, the size of our community is greatly
increased over the size we had at that time, Our concept of the
relationships of the communities around us and the developments around
us all bear in the need for a change of our evaluation, The factors
that seem to be principAl elements of a General Plan consideration are
certainly the commercial developments, the commercial potential, the
crystallizing of the objectives of the community, This is one of
•the major efforts, we believe. In order to do that, we have to have the
necessary background in an organized manner for this, Traffic circula-
tion in the community is a prime element; aesthetic development,
exploration of ways and means of guidance in this direction all seem
to be prime factors, We had recently an economic study by the Real
Estate Research Corporation, If I remember correctly, the study went
to 1970, It was our feeling that a General Plan of the type that we
need currently should have guidance further than 1970. Our traffic
studies that were made were certainly useful in their objectives, but
we believe in the objectives of -the General Plan, including the
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C, C, 12/S/66
GENERAL PLAN CONTRACT ® Continued
Page Three
• annexations that are on thehprizon and the ones already accomplished
will certainly take an extensive amount of thinking,, The cost as
broken down here was discussed and is reasonably representative, we
believe, for the service that we are to receive, We believe one of the
major services we have to do is to develop a general concept in the
community, a general knowledge of it, a general acceptance of it so
whatever is adopted as a General Plan --will be something both the Council
and the Planning Commission and the Planning staff can carry out within.
a logical framework that would be effective and I would hope have some
reasonable amount of longetivity in its concept,
Mayor Krieger; Certain of our observations seem
to me more philosophical and
Wneral in nature and I am sure they were intended to be, The substance
of them concerns me somewhat in view of the legal obligations on this
Council as well as those obligations that we imposed upon the staff
and the Planning Commission in this area,, We have adopted an ordinance
which requires the review of the General Plan and even before we
adopted that ordinance there had been a great deal of discussion going
back as far as the Home Savings and. Loan property is concerned about
Amendment No,, 5, I think, to the General Plan having to do with that
undeveloped acreage in that area,, In the natural course of progression
c'e finally evolved the necessity which, I think, was obvious to all of
us for a total review of our existing General Plan,, Our staff and the
•Planning Commission have been working on this for some time now and.
there have been periodic reports to the Council and we have reviewed
scope of work, certain factors of cost, allocation of work between
staff. the Planning Commission. and outside consultants. T_t seems to
me we have finally worked down to this being the work product of a
rumber of months of effort both by the Council and by the staff and by
the Planning Commission,, It certainly does involve a great expenditure
of money,,' The question is whether or not we are getting something that
is worth expending that amount of money for,, I indicated long ago
that I would hope that the General Plan revision would be a tailormade
product for the City of West Covina and not something academic that would
result in another addition to our library which would have only the
remotest relationship to the problems we have in this community. I
think the ad hoc committee has done a commendable job in terms of
translating these philosophies into concrete and specific work items,,
The net analysis is going to be, of course, directly dependent upon
the success of the consultants and the staff in completing each of these
phases of work,, I don't think we have any disagreement in the need to
update or revise our General Plan,, Perhaps if there is a disagreement
at all it has to do with the number of steps and the scope of the work.
required in order to do this,, I would tend to think that the members
of the Planning Commission who have worked particularly on this, and
I am thinking of Mr,, Jackson and Mr,, Mayfield in this regard, have
appreciated the Council's concern with both scope of work and cost
and have taken into consideration in the drafting of this agreement
with the staff's acceptance various areas of concern -which should
. be of concern to the Council if we are going to revise and update the
General Plan, There certainly are instances in this proposal where
we might be able to save x dollars by cutting out certain items within
the scope, but I think we could seriously and unfortunately prejudice
the whole program by a blanket indictment of the good that this could
accomplish if it is done well-,
(Councilman Gleckman entered the chambers at 7e50 o'clock P,,M,,)
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C6 C. 1.2/5/66 Page Four
GENERAL: PLAN CONTRACT e Continued
• Mayor Krieger: Tf this is the proposal adopted by
the City, I expect to not only
request but demand of the staff and of the Planning Commission very
close supervision of each stage of the work product by the outside
consultants so we don't get some sterile work product by consultants
that would have no relation to our problems, I think each one of the
stages is followed through by the consultant and the supervision by the
Planning Commission and by the staff and that we can have a work product
that is worth the money wd are spending on it,
Councilman Gleckman: I could be wrong, but going into
this a little deeper, the amount
of dollars and cents they are talking about spending in doing the
Central Business District to me would be some duplication done already by
Real. Estate Research, I didn't understand how they detailed that
particular commercial section with that kind of money after we just
got through paying a lot more than that for Real Estate Research in
which the staff and the Council and the Planning? Commission all reviewed.
The other phases I have looked at and I think they are in more
generalities, I am not an attorney, but I myself wouldn't mind signing
a contract like this with the idea that there is nothing there that
really binds me, We are being asked to approve, in my estimation, a
legal document without specific enough results to be expected in order
for us tospend this kind of money,
• Councilman Gillum; I am curious why at this time we
are at this final thing that these
things crop up, Why weren't they brought up earlier?
Councilman Nichols: Until this proposal came before
us we had no proposal. We had
at that time recommendations of our Planning Commission as to the
general scope of work that should be accomplished; we had a time flow
chart, Until we had this, we did not have a $52,000 proposal,
I. too, realized the need for the updating of the General Plan and
voted for it, I recognized the need for utilization of consultation
and voted for it, It is sometimes difficult to bring up criticisms of
work because there are those who -have participated that may feel
they are personally being charged with not having done their job in some
way and yet I don't think this is true and I don't intend for it to be
this -way, I would like to talk about the specifics of it,
On Page 2 of this report,
Scope of the Study, Phase I. Data Completion and Map Preparation:
"Workwill- be the responsibility of. the West Covina Planning Staff
but will be coordinated with the consultants as needed," Now, the
consultant is going to charge us $1,130 for this aspect-, It doesn't
explain it sufficiently to me. What it says to me just as one
person is that the staff is going to furnish the bulk of this material.
that will be used during the course of this study by the consultant
•and that for getting this material from us, in effect, the Council places
a.charge of $1,130,
Moving on in this area to
Page 3, Items 2 and 3, they are going to attend four meetings, coming
down here from San Francisco, one or two people I assume, but I don't
know that, and they are going to devote these meetings to the
explanation of the program; discussion of community problems, At
this point they don't know anything about our community, We are just
getting into this problem, Then they are going to go back and prepare
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Ce Co 1.2/,0-/66
GENERAL PLAN CONTRACT - Continued
Page Five
• a -critical review of the committee reports that the citizens make and
for this service they are going to charge us $29400, Maybe everyone
else involved says that is about what ii costs and that sounds like
a lot of money for nothing very substantial in nature in terms of a
.contractual obligation,
We come to Page 4 and they note
a study of public facilities of all types, We know our public facilities
in this City, If anybody knows the public facilities, we have studied
them backwards and forwards and no one from San Francisco is going to
come here and tell us anything about our public facilities that we don't
already know, Add that. to one other item, a study of physical develop-
ment trends in this City, and if we can't see what is physically
developing in this City -® and they are going to charge us $2,500 for
this, I coul.d.go on through point after point on page after page
where it seems to me not in terms of the scope of this study of
what our Planning Commission is asking for of what our staff feels we
should get, but what these gentlemen propose to charge us $52,000 for,
It seems to me there are a lot of charges padded way out of proportion
to reality and I can't buy it as it is,
Councilman Gleckman; May I make a suggestion?
I would think with the makeup
of this Council that the proper thing
•in order to get some type of solution to doing this type of work that we
as a. Council review this subject with the partcicular people,we are
talking about employing, In fact, I think this suggestion was made
some time past but not officially in the Minutes, and at this time
I think it.is time for this Council to meet with Williams, Cook and
Mocine and we spell out to them what we expect from them and then let
them tell us what they are charging us, In essence, I think that they
have given us the general trend. of the mill outline and for this I
myself feel we have more unique problems than just the general mill,
I think the only way we are going to come to a conclusion on this
Council as to whether to give them a contract or not is to review this
with them in both our presences, That would be my suggestion,
(.Councilman Snyder entered the chambers at 8:00 o'clock P.M.)
Councilman Gleckman; I would like to say that along
with my statements that this
General. Plan Critical Path to me was an excellent guide but to me it
was not followed in this contract as to specifics as to what they would
do in order to go along with it,
Mayor Krieger:
They seem .to be all keyed to items
in the agreement,
Councilman Gleckman° Just general explanations which.
we have had in several different
• reports on this City in the last five years, I don't think this is
what we are looking for,
Councilman Snyder; If this is not what we are looking
for, what, in effect, are we
looking for? Secondly, all you are going to Pet from any firm is a
standardized general plan service, The imagination and the direction
of a General Planhas to come from the City and the City staff,
The contractors will only furnish you that technical information which
din -help to guide you in your goals, The imagination and work and
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GENERAL PLAN CONTRACT - Continued
Page Six
•principles involved have to come from the Citv staff and the City
Council and the policy making body of the City, However, I don't
think you can get along without the technical services and I can't
criticize the contract in its basic elements because I don't know that
much about it,
Councilman Gleckman- Can you say for $52,000 that
they have covered from the point
we are at now to where we would like to go maybe in this particular
contract?
Councilman Snyder- I think they have covered it if
the staff and the City Council
offers the necessary guidance and stimulation to the hired consultants,
Councilman Gleckman- For this we are going to pay them
$52,000?
Councilman Snyder- I am afraid that this is probably
necessary unless -we can, by bid,
get a lower price, I think you can use any firm and get about the
same services,
Mayor Krieger- The Planning Commission did
interview three firms, This
• is their recommendation, We reviewed their rating sheets and we con-
curred in their selection of this .firm as the best qualified, The
figures that we are talking about are no great revelation. As far
back as August we were talking about $60,000 for this item, If we
are going to confront the problem with a statement that we are not
specific enough then I think the burden devolves upon us as a Council
to formulate the specifics of this and not to direct staff or the
Planning Commission to formulate what is in our minds, I think that
might be a monumental job,
Councilman Snyder- I agree with this, Before we
hire any firm and before we
embark upon a General Plan the Council and the Planning Commission
have to sit down and draw up what was called a premable in the first
one but I think in this one a statement of goals for our City_, I
have no objection to the contract on technical basis because -'I don't
know that much about it, If we are going to have to hire a consultant
and this is the one recommended, I am for it. We do have to sit down
and draw up those goals in broad outline,
Councilman Gleckman- If you look at Page 8 and you look
at Paragraph B, when I got to
that point I thought that is where they should have started, not dis-
regarding, everything they did before.that, but this revised General
Plan for the City, this is primarily what we have asked them to do and
•they set their particular goals to cover this contract with probably
some addition, but in that particular paragraph, Again, maybe I am
objecting to the $52,000 as a total figure, but some of the items
they have outlined and put price tags on have made me come to this
conclusion, not the idea of the $52,000 for a revised General Plan, but
the specific items they outline in the plan and the amounts they are
charging for those specific items is probably what I object to more
than the total price, Maybe it was presented wrong,
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C, C, 12/.0/66
GENERAL PLAN CONTRACT a Continued
Page Seven
. Mayor Krieger; What concerns me about this is we
had a report from the Planning
Department back on April the 22nd and the suggested time schedule in
there was for a contract to be awarded in July of. 166, Sooner or
later we are going to have to get down to practical steps in this
sequence of events and productive steps as to where we are going for
it, I am prepared to vote this agreement in or sit down with this
City Council every night starting with tonight until we have hammered
out either with Williams, Cook and Mocine or without them or anybody
else, exactly what this Council wants in this field. I am just anxious
to get on with the program,
Councilman Nichols-. There are a,couple of areas of
concern here that should be
brought up at this point, I would like to know what the current status
is of the request or proposal to receive some $50,000 in assistance
funds, C,A,P,, and we have not had any report on that, My recollection
was that our original charge to the staff was that we would update the
General Plan and we directed the staff to-do it, The staff, I believe,
did return with this new proposal that some funds might be forthcoming
from the outside but in order to achieve these the scope of the study
would have to be expanded and we would have to then utilize because of
the broadened scope of it some outside consultant services, I would
like a report on this phase of it,
. City Manager, Mr, Aiassa-. The staff has made a preliminary
application and we met with the
representatives of the Federal government, There are provisions in.
C,A,P, that are not as simple as it was under 701, Under C,A,P,, it
is under H,H,F,A, but it is classified as blight prevention, This
requires clarification, (Gave summary of this matter,) We have had
tentative approval, The only question staff has if we bring forth the
:Enal. agreement with the Council to the Council, are we binding the
City to do work beyond the scope of what we are now proposing to do
under the revision of updating the General Plan, In some of the
requirements they are not specific but they could be made specific
and we want to know how specific they will be, I have sent the
report by the assistance to our Congressman, I presume I should be
hearing from him within a few weeks, Our application went in early
enough that there are funds available, Under the present contract
being proposed, the City has budgeted $35,000 with the potential money
budgeted for the next two years, Whether you get aid or not, your
program will go on,
•
Councilman Snyder:
that says you cannot be reimbursed?
City Manager, Mr, Aiassa:
to your actual expenditures,
If we start out and commit our
own City funds is there any rule
You do not initiate any program
that they don't approve prior
Mayor Krieger-. We have a report from the former
Planning Director of August 5th
where he states that C,A,P, is much broader in scope than the General
Plan and its principal concern would be to prevent blight, (Read
portion of said report,,) It might -be well to receive such subsistence
from the Federal government if -ours is the type of program that justifies
it but merely to accept money or rationalize why we should receive
money or go out of our way to engage in idle acts to receive money
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C, Ce 1.2lj5/66
GENERAL PLAN CONTRACT - Continued
doesn't make sense to me whether it is our own
money, the State's money or Federal moneys I
as I read your reports for some time now as to
or qualification for. this C.A.P. program,
Page Eight
money, the County's
am not overly enthusiastic
our ultimate eligibility
Would it be a fair outline of
the alternatives available to this council that one is to procedd
with the proposed agreement as submitted; two is to junk the whole
project; and three is to get down to specifi.cs to rewrite an agreement
that we want to rewrite?
Councilman Nichols: Let me clarify my position on
this matter, Originally we asked
the staff if they could, in fact, update the General Plan, Then the
staff indicated that the total responsibility would exceed the sta.f.f's
resources and so I think the Council expressed the philosophy that it
would be basically a staff operation with consultant help as needed;
that is, that the staff would do what the staff could do and when it
found it could not accomplish any particular part of this activity, it
would then call upon consultants, I am in total agreement up to the
point of this specific contract proposal, To mirror somewhat of
Councilman Gleckman's thoughts, my areas of concern are limited totally
and exclusively to the selection of certain items and the charges for
those specific items, I feel on the one hand that the charges for
certainspecific items are excessive and on the other hand, I feel that
• some of those items that are listed should not even be done by the
consultant but could well be done with our own staff with the
resources amply available in the community. I cite as a prime example
of' that the matter of the study, analysis and review of the public
facilities that are present in our City,
Councilman Gillum; I can't understand how we got to
this point right here and all
of a sudden we pop up with these things, Mr, Nichols, on what are you
basing your objection to this price? What have you pot to base it
against?
Councilman Nichols: Neither you nor any member of
this Council saw these specific
proposals for specific jobs to be done,
Councilman Gillum: I sat through this with the
Commission as Council representative,
Councilman Nichols: I have not seen them until I saw
this report and until I see the
report I. cannot farm a value judgment, It is true I can accept this as
it has come to the Council and say, "Fine. That is it," I just can't,
Mayor Krieger: Turn to the first price item that
. we have on Page 2, Data Collection
and Preparation.,
Councilman Snyder: This is absolutely necessary,
Whether the price is right, who
can say?
Councilman Nichols: The City is preparing this and
providing it and we are paying
$1,I30 and I need an explanation on this,
Ce C� 12/5/66 Page Nine
GENERAL PLAN CONTRACT - Continued
Public Services Director, Mr,, Fast; Tnsofar as Ttem A 1 and 2 are
concerned, there is $19130
and for purposes of comparison or for evaluation, T would suggest
that this figure be easily divided by 10 to, Gay, 113 man hours. This
may not be exactly correct, Because the City is going to furnish
him the base map of the West Covina plannins area and the East San
Gabriel Valley Area, it does not mean that he will not be required to
do, .for instance, the special study area including the San Bernardino/
Huntington Beach Freeway corridors. We will supply him with the
corridors that the State HiFhwav Department has'come up with, but
on the other hand a considerable amount of study is involved in this
and analysis from other freeway corridors from other analyses that this
consultant will be familiar with in other areas of the•State.
Certainly we will provide him with the data of our existing land use.
This is raw data; it is not prepared in a format or is listed in a matter
to allow them to move forward to the next phase which involves the
meeting with citizens committees, for instance. The raw data of
existing land will not be in a situation where in proper presentation
or conclusions could be drawn from it for the sketch plan. The
review of objectives and principles for future development, this is
a very important facet of a General Plan which was not done on our
previous general Plan and that is that the incorporation of a citizens
oonmittee or committees at the early_ stages of the General Plan whereas
before we waited until the Job was practically done before we had
•offical public hearings and that was the first time the community was
involved. This will involve the community at an early time and I
believe in an item later on there is a considerable amount of data
and information that will be prepared. This preparation could be done
by the City staff if the City staff did do this, accumulation of many
of these things that the City staff could possibly do would involve
the retention of additional manpower which was balanced out by the
ad hoc committee when they created the Critical Path Analysis. We
think the consultant will be very useful in the regard to the preparation
of this data because they have had experience doing this very type of
General Plan and certainly from that standpoint it is canned but I think
it is valuable canned information and that is how citizen committees
operate -- the best method of presentation; what is best or most
effectual; what information is especially useful and meaningful. It
is this type of thing that the 113 hours and the hundred hours would
be utilized for. We cannot delineate and say that we know exactly that
the special study of the undeveloped hill area south of developed West
Covina will be exactly 52 man hours. It is not as easy as a street
construction project where we can ennumerate and set forth cubic yards
of concrete, base, and so on. I think this generally explains the
type of function and amount of coordination that will be necessary for
us to be supported by the very things that the consultant does better
and faster than we can do in the best and most efficient use of man
power and talents in this combined program.
•
Councilman Snyder;
On Bi it says, in eff.ect9 prepare
a detailed study outline of
specific problems and future objectives and principles for use of the
subject committee. Again, this Council and Planning Commission and
staff know better what these are than any outside consultant. However,
they may be able to prepare the.information better. This item should
be closely coordinated with the City Council and staff in the
preparation.
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C, Ca 12/5/66
GENERAL PLAN CONTRACT m Continued
Page Ten
. Public. Services Director., Mr, Fast-, I believe that this intent is
very well understood by the
consultant, and if you read the entire paragraph under B. he is actually
setting forth that the goals and problems and future objectives will
be established by the City, that they are merely the catalyst who finally
prepare the detailed study outline once it is complete,
Mayor Krieger-, Is there any objection to
including it and the price?
Councilman Nichols-,
I obj ect
Mayor Krieger-, Is there any objection to the
$11,130 and the $1,000?
Councilman Gleckman-, Prior to going through this
contract the wav we are
proceeding, could I ask if the staff has come up with the amount of
man hours and the amount of cost this would cost the City of West Covina
with the amount of time that the consultants are figuring for the work
we have to do? Did we come up with any figure at all as to what it is
costing the staff.?
Public Services Director, Mr, Fast-, We feel from the standpoint of
City staff wholly or this route,
it is essentially a push, We would have to add about five people
to the staff from the standpoint we tried to come up with a certain
analysis as business as usual, how many priority items do we have,
do we want to continue, There are a lot of estimates and assumptions
made on that basis, As a result of the Council analysis, it was
essentially the same,
Councilman Gleckman-, My question is, the staff time
under this proposal is what?
Public Services Director, Mr, Past-, We feel it is about a man and a
half,
Councilman Gleckmaan-,
Which in dollars and cents is what?
Public Services Director-, We911 say $15,000, We recommended
that in the Critical Path
approach that the ad hoc committee recommended to us that we feel to
do the job in the time allocated we would add one additional man to
the payroll which was a Planning Assistant, which is the figure you
recall, but we do not feel that that new man as specifically or as
necessarily as a Planning Assistant would be the man that would be
working on the General Plan, That would be a direct reflection of the
General Plan input, From the standpoint of working throughout this
entire scope for eighteen months we would like to rationalize the one
man and a half working on the General Plan,
Councilman Gleckman; My thought was with $52,000 to
be paid out to outside
consultants, would we be spending $309000 additionally within our
ownstaff time, man hours, dollars and cents., so -in -essence, we are
paying about $75,000 to $80,000 for the revision of a General Plan
and the primary concern of having this in house was to bring the cost
as well down since we had the experience that it wouldn't cost that
kind of money, Maybe I misunderstood, but I felt if we had to spend
a total of $80,000 of this with the bulk of it going outside and we
were doing the bulk of the work, something was wrong,
m10m
•
0
•
C, C, 12/,6/66
GENERAL PLAN CONTRACT ® Continued
Councilman Snydere
my primary concern was
but my primary concern
by consultant and with
more tailormade to this
worth the money you pay
Mayor Krieger:
Page Eleven
When I discussed and agreed with
you on doing it in-house at first,
not necessarily cost because cost is a factor
is that an in-house plan or even one partially
the cooperation of the staff is going'to be
City's need and is going to be more useful and
for it,
and $5 per staff time per hour
one in cost to consultants but
being priced out at about twice
out at, the ratio of time would
this anywhere close to what was
If we were to arbitrarily take
$10 for consultant time per hour
then you have about a ratio of three to
inasmuch as the consultant's time is
what you are pricing your own staff time
be about one and a half to one, Is
Public Services Director, Mr, Fast: On the $10 I was merely trying
to give you something to measure,
It might be $8, Certainly when they have their senior planner on the
job they are expending less time than when a principal is on the iob.
From the standpoint of ratio of a City dollar versus a consultant dollar,
yes, it will be less, I don't think it is two -to -one, On the other
hand, in certain areas of this, there is going to be a certain amount
of inexperience factor which has to be applied to an hour we put into
the job,,
Mayor Krieger: Let's go on to B2 and 3, This
was a $2,400 price tag,
Specifically, are there any questions the Council wants to ask of
staff either on scope of work or price?
Councilman Snyder: What four meetings are these?
Are these the citizen committee
meetings or the public hearings?
Public Services Director, Mr, Fast:
Councilman Snyder:
The citizen committee meetings,
It sounds kind of high to me, too,
Mayor Krieger: I agree if we are talking about
four meetings, I think the
real meat of the thing is the critical review, Can you amplify the
work that goes into this at all for us?
Public Services Director, Mr, Fast: Probably no more so than is
actually spelled out under No, 3,
1 believe Mr, Williams did spell out in some additional detail at the
work session with the Planning Commission the amount of work that had
to go into this item -a In the event there were lesser meetings, we
can actually control the cost of the meeting attendence quite closely
because this is strictly material and time and it can be evaluated,
Mayor Krieger: This is the kind of item that is
strictly blind, It may require
more and there certainly is a strong possibility -it would require less,
The meetings themselves I would think, if it is taken into consideration,
would be a very nominal portion of the $29400, At the most you are
talking about 25 hours for the.four meetings,
Councilman Snyder:
It seems to me this should be
agreed upon on the hourly basis
including the preparation,
C. C, 12/5/66
GENERAL PLAN CONTRACT - Continued
Page Twelve
Mayor Krieger; You are going to get into whose
time is being put on it and
whether or not we are petting something out of it,
Councilman Nichols; I could conceive of having a
representative of the consultant
attend any key meetings in a consultant capacity but it seemed to me
that of all of the areas here that this would have been the vital area
that our own staff should have taken charge of because they are going
to review all of the reports of the citizens committee and write a
critical review of those reports to provide the guidance that will
be the guidance for the preparation of the revised General Plan and
special studies, I think this is where our staff should have the
meat of the responsibility with consultant help,
Councilman Snyder-, I would agree that probably
staff or a Councilman should
present these items at the citizen committee meetings. I think having
gone through a General Plan you put your staff on an untenable spot
sometimes -if they can't refer to the consultant on certain questions.
I think it is necessary that the consultant be present on an hourly
basis at -least at the meetings,
Councilman Gillum: I seem to get the feeling we
are asking for answers to questions
that no one in this room can answer for us. I think it is being unfair
to staff and also Williams, Cook and Mocine, It might be if these
gentlemen were here they could answer Mr, Nichols' questions, I would
Irefer, if possible, in order that everybody is happy with this
contract and the price of these items, I think we should have these
people or representatives here, I don't think you can take one part of
this contract out,
Councilman Gleckman; I agree with Mr. Gillum as far
as having them present. I also
feelif we went through this report and knocked off $8.,000, $99000,
$11,000 or $30,000 we still couldn't take any action but to sit down
with the consultant and the staff and the ad hoc committee and knock
a contract out of.this type unless this Council sees fit to appoint
its own ad hoc committee to meet with the Planning Commission's ad hoc
committee to meet with the consultants and they come back with the
contract that we are looking for,
Mayor Krieger; I would be adverse to creating
new agencies in this situation.
Is it a consensus of the Council that you want Williams, Cook and.
Mocine present during this discussion?
Councilman Gleckman; I would, I would specifically
like to ask the consultants to
•justify the particular figures they have within the Central Business
District. with Real Estate Research just releasing their report to us
and some of the other reports we have had in the past three years in
this community. I can't justify these amounts in those specific areas
unless they can get into more detail with me as to why they need this
kindof money,
Councilman Snyder: I am opposed to a motion to
adopt that might not carry
.without a vote of at least four -to -one, I think everybody should be
satisfied,
-12-
C. C. 12/,0/66
GENERAL PLAN CONTRACT - Continued
Page Thirteen
Councilman Nichols: I am confident that within the
framework of these proposals that
I. can gain the information that would either enable me to totally
be satisified with this or -that would enable the Council to make some
modifications, We are the ones that are responsible to the people
of West Covina who elected us. If we vote $50,000 now or $75,000 or
$1.00,000 every other man who has been connected with this is not going
to be on the line; it will be this Council. I think we are bound to be
informed and able and totally conscious to justify a vote for whatever
these sums of money may be. On a piece of material of this type all
we have received, those of us who did not sit in hearings, those
of us who did not appear in committees, all we received are plain
limitedstatements of what is happening. There is no elaboration; no
documentary background as to the hours that are going to be involved,
as to the stops that are involved. Nothing else has come to me
that would give me the kind of information that I need to be able to
vote intelligently on this. I subscribe to the sentiment expressed
here that the Council should have the opportunity to meet with those
men proposing those steps and give us the benefit of the opportunity
of questioning them.
Motion by Councilman Nichols, seconded by Councilman Gleckman, and
carried, that the matter of the General Plan contract'be held over to
a study session at the earliest possible date and that the staff be
directed to attempt to bring the consultants who have proposed this
. contract and this Council and any groups that this Council may care
to include, including the ad hoc committee of the Planning Commission.
Mayor Krieger: Mr. Aiassa, would it be possible
to get these men down this week?
City Manager, Mr. Aiassa: I'll try.
Mayor Krieger: Is there any objection to having
this meeting Thursday night
unless the representatives cannot make it?
Would you indicate to them that
it is imperative that the Council wants to me6t on this matter this
week and would like to meet with them Thursday at 7:30 P.M.?
City Manager, Mr, Aiassa: Yes.
JOINT POWERS AGREEMENT
r
Public Services Director, Mr. Past: We are waiting for a final draft
by the legal consultant hired
for this task. We are trying to time this with the County Counsel's
Office. We will attempt to get a meeting set as soon as -possible.
Motion by Councilman Gleckman, seconded by Councilman Gillum, and
carried, that the matter of the joint powers agreement be held over
to the meeting of December 12, 1966.
-13-
C. C. 12/�/66
S'AN BERNARDINO FREEWAY MODIFICATION
Page Fourteen.
• Mayor Krieger: We -have a report dated November
239 1966 from the City Attorney
and joined in by the Public Services Director, attachments,"and letters
from Mr, Hoy,
(Maps were presented and Mr. Fast gave a summary of this matter,)
Councilman Snyder: In the report of November 23rd
to me some of the statements in
here require further explanation, "The main street frontage road
providing three lanes in each direction plus a left -turn median is
shown," In proposing this we didn't require three lanes in each
direction and we didn't necessarily require it on both sides of the
freeway,
Public Services Director, Mr, Fast: The reason we said six lanes is
because we felt this was the
minimum size of the main street that would carry the car count of
traffic volume generated in these reaches of main street and had to be
this wide in order to carry the traffic involved. In regard to the
addition of something on the north side, we only put those in there
where we felt if we were talking in terms of a final solution to this
situat-ion that would provide something that would be adequate,
convenient, and not a circuitous compromise. We felt any traffic
that was especially westbound from the north side of the freeway should'
have its access to the main on ramp at the west end of town through
the nearest convenient interchange without going under the freeway,
circling back through two turns, getting onto the south side main
street, continuing to the`west side of town, going back under the
freeway once more to go west. That is why we mentioned six lanes and
why we incorporated some frontage road main street on the north side,
Councilman Snyder: It seems to me in your report
you should have considered the
minimum possible instead of the maximum possible to acquire the
principle involved here. I don't think necessarily you did that,
Public Services Director, Mr, Fast: We feel six lanes would be minimum,
Councilman Snyder: On the second page you make a great
point that.if you overshoot
an off -ramp -and backtrack, it isn't explained that in backtracking you
would have, in effect, almost an expressway or main street to backtrack
on and probably you didn't further mention that many people never take
the Vincent Avenue off ramp because they are tied up about five minutes
and there is less backtracking on overshooting-,
Public Services Director, Mr, Fast: The biggest -point we want to point
out on- backtracking- is- this: That
the traffic volume will be so high on main street that individual
development access to main street would not be possible. In other words,
we are saying that the driveways out of the Broadway or the driveways
out of the Plaza could not open onto -a main street because of the vast
amount of traffic being -carried on these future projections to 1980.
They would have to go back onto a side street and then onto a main
street. No matter how good we make a ramp, the experts tell us that
it can only handle 19800 cars per hour. A concentration of the seven
interchanges to three would, in essence, overload the existing ramps on
those three interchanges,
-14-
'r,
C, C. 12/.4/66
SAN BERNARDINO FREEWAY MODIFICATIONS - Continued
Page Fifteen
Mayor Krieger: If the San Bernardino Freeway did
not exist now and the State of
California was going to put it through West Covina, how many ramps would
we get?
Mr, Zimmerman: About the same that we have now,
Councilman Snyder: The San Bernardino Freewav was one
of the first freeways and we are
living, with the early mistakes they made and nobody wants to help us
correct them, It seems to me we are incapable of doing it and we need
the cooperation of the Highway Department to do it,
Mayor Krieger: We have a letter. of Sentember 7th
from our City Attorney addressed
to Mr, Aiassa, Going.tothe State's proposal it says: "Unless the
widening of the freeway can be accomplished without closing any City
street or opening any new City street, the State cannot proceed without
-obtaining the agreement of the City," How about that proposal? Can
it be accomplished without closing any City street or opening any new
City street?
Public Services Director, Mr, Fast; From a practical standpoint, to
add a lane on each side of the
freeway means that every ramp has to be shifted outward, I believe
in the interpretation that it would constitute interruption of the City
streets,
Mayor Krieger:
agreement, Is that a fair statement?
Public Services Director, Mr, Fast:
Mayor Krieger:
community without our agreement?
City Manager, Mr, Aiassa:
Mayor Krieger. -
City Manager, Mr, Aiassa:
Public Services Director, Mr, Fast:
The State cannot proceed with
their program without the City's
I would assume so, but we haven't
discussed this at all.
Can they go ahead with their
widening program through this
As they proposed?
Yes,
No,
It might be fair to say without
an agreement chances are the
construction wouldn't -go,
Mayor Krieger: What I would put to the Council is
what are we gaining • really with this whole project? What difference does it make to us whether we are
botched up one way or botched up another way? I see a couple interchange
improvements but that's about all we are gaining a If you take our own
staff statistics you are going to -.feed more traffic into -our inadequate
internal street systems because all these figures lead to that conclusion,
All we are doing is helping get traffic through the City of West Covina
or off the freeway into the City of West Covina but then what do we do
withthem once we get them here? The State isn't going to help us solve
that problem,
-15-
C. Co 12./0/66
Page Sixteen
S'AN BERNARDINO FREEWAY MODIFICATION - Continued
Councilman Snyder; We really need to have Walnut
Creek Parkway and Workman Avenue
anyway even if we don't sign this agreement. We are not really gaining
anything except possibly even better interchanges by holding out on this
freeway agreement, I think we are going to have to go to a program
on walnut Creek Parkway and. Workman anyway with or without this freeway
agreement, That is long overdue,
Councilman Nichols: Tt is obvious that the State
proposal represents the minimum
additional expenditure of funds necessary to extend the San Bernardino
Freeway with its proposed additional laneage, That answer is eminently
satisfactory in terms of the needs of the State Highway system of
California but it does relatively little for the City of West Covina,
h am very disappointed that the State has not seen fit to make any effort
to rectify the problems of the past, Even if we had seen an effort to
create some bridge structures that would allow the frontage road to
continue in some sort of a reasonable semblence of a frontage road it
would be a little easier to take, I don't favor it for myself,
Councilman -Gillum:
State that what is presented to
acceptable to the City of West
down with them and try to find
• theirs?
Councilman Snyder-,
Would we be out of line to
instruct the staff to inform the
us at this point is completely un-
Covina and that we would like to sit
a solution to our problem along with
Before we sit down with them we
had better be prepared to tell
them what we want,
Councilman Gleckman-, I said three vears ago and I have
been fighting three years for this
Council or any Council in this City to stand on its two hind legs and
say, "We don't have to accept what the State Division of Highways says,
Why must we accept that which is of benefit only to the State Division
of Highways and not to the benefit of West Covina?" I have been
accused of stopping the freeway from going to four lanes, but nobody
has said anything because I wanted better things for the City and
therefore I wouldn't bow to the State Division of Highways. I can't
understand their thinking at all, The one recommendation that the
Planning Commission did make on their proposal was on Barranca Avenue
and., if I may, I will quote from Mr. Shaffer's letter of November 23rd;
"The fact that the state is willing to spend an additional $1,0009000,00
to modify the interchange would seem to be very strong evidence that
we feel that the only proper solution to the problem is to separate
the ramp traffic from the frontage road traffic," I don't know where
he got this million -dollar figure, but I wish he would take some of the
money he is referring to and spend it on some of,the inadequate sub-
standard on and off ramps they have forced down the City's throat, I
•concur in everything that has been said here this evening and I would
be willing to meet with them at any time, any place, but T want them
to know that I am not there to represent the State Division of Highways;
I. am there to represent the City of West Covina,
Mayor Krieger: Seeing this visual graph,
obviously there are problems.
Speaking about the southside of the freeway now, I think the major
problem that I see on the south side of the freeway having; to do with
our frontage road is at Vincent to tie the new Plaza and the old Center -
together, I think the second major problem on the south side of the
-16-
C. Co 12/,0/66 Page Seventeen
SAN BERNARDINO FREEWAY MODIFTCATION ® Continued
freeway is on Citrus Avenue to tie both sides of Citrus Avenue together,
As far as the interchange on the south side of Azusa is concerned, we
need a more workable system into our frontage road, Now that we have
seen this proposal and now that we have received a sense from the State
as to their repugnance, I think we ought to concentrate on certain
specific items which represent "demands" as .far as this City is
concerned as to what we want, I would like to see the concentration on
the south side at least on Vincent whether they go over it or under
it, I don't care, but they have to tie those two centers together,
On Azusa Avenue there has to be a clean-up fo that south ramp to feed
better into the frontage road, On Citrus, there has to be going over
or under but there has to be a tying in of the two sides of the Citrus
Avenue, In my opinion, these are specific proposals,
Councilman
Nichols:
I
think
they
are minimal,
Councilman
Snyder:
I
think
there
should be additional
ones but those are the first ones,
Motion by Councilman Gleckman, seconded by Councilman Gillum, that the
City Manager be directed to get together with the State Division of
Highways to set up a meeting between this Council and the State
Division of Highways as to the desires of this City Council and how they
can workout their problems in conjunction with the widening of the
San Bernardino Freeway,
• Councilman Snyder: Don't you think something should
be added to that motion that
under the present proposal, the City finds it totally unacceptable?
Councilman Gleckman: I will agree with that. I will
so amend my motion,
Councilman -Gillum-, I will accept the amendment,
Councilman Nichols, Would you accept an amendment in
the motion that this meeting be
scheduled in such.a fashion that the Council may meet in advance during
a study session in order that we may come with a common voice with a
priority of recommendations as to the desires of this City government
relative to this development? I am asking you this, Councilman
Gleckman, because it was my experience at one or two prior meetings with
the gentlemen from the State that they seem to not be prepared right
at that point to give any definite answers at that time and all we would
be able to do would be to convey our displeasure or our refusal to
sign the agreement, I would like us to be in a position where we could
be an absolute unit, if at all possible, and where we could make certain
specific recommendations to them and say, "Now you take the ball and
tell us what you are going to do."
Councilman Snyder:
• Councilman Nichols:
That could be a separate motion,
All righto
Action on Councilman Gleckman's motion: Motion carried unanimously.
®17®
C, C, 12/5/66 Page Eighteen
SAN BERNARDINO FREEWAY MODIFICATION e Continued
Motion by Councilman Nichols, seconded by Councilman Gillum, that the
Council direct the City Manager to schedule a meeting for the Council
in advance of the meeting with the representatives of the State Division
of Highways and that this meeting is to be for the purpose of discussing
and finalizing proposals for presentation to the.gentlemen from the
State Division of Highways,
Mayor Krieger-. The only question I have on the
motion is aren't we prepared after
all this to do that tonight?
Councilman Nichols-. I am but T think we might want to
go into more detail,
Mayor Krieger: I think the Council is going to
have to reach a consensus, if
it. possibly can, on these questions and the staff is going to have to
have the opportunity after we do so to prepare some type of visual
presentation of that,
Councilman Gleckman: I am prepared to go into it this
evening,
Councilman Snyder: I am, too,
Councilman Nichols: I am, too, I will withdraw my
motion,
Councilman.Gillum: I will withdraw my second,
Councilman Nichols-. I feel the one insistent demand
that this Council should make for
thefutiire well being of this City and every citizen of this community
that the Council should insist upon realistic proposals that will tie
the two major business sections south of the freeway enabling easy
access from one to the other, I am talking basically of the Vincent
Avenue interchange and the frontage road as it has been emasculated, and
I. believe that the State should be willing, to budget whatever funds
are necessary to provide whatever bridge structures are necessary
and whatever land acquisition is necessary to correct that mess,
Councilman Gillum:
I agree,
Mayor Krieger: You can go under it or you can
go over it; I agree, I think
this Council should take a position that we don't care which, over or
under, but the most feasible method of getting from one side to another
by a direct route for a change. I believe that is the consensus of the
Council,
• Councilman Snyder: We need a more adequate interchange
for Azusa Avenue, We also need a.
direct frontage road,
Councilman Gillum.. -
separated from the freeway traffic,
We almost need the same thing there.
We need to get the local traffic
Is
•
C, C, 12/,6/66 Page Nineteen
SAN BERNARDINO FREEWAY MODIFICATION - Continued
Councilman Gleckman: Before you get to that, I don't
see anything wrong with the
underpass at Lark Ellen, You have the same situation there right now
where you have to come around before you can continue onto the service
road,
Councilman Gillum:
Mayor Krieger:
Councilman Snyder:
Councilman Gleckman:
are not getting a new interchange,
Councilman Snyder:
Put a bridge over it.
It will give us better north/
south traffic and take it off
Vincent and Azusa,
From a safety standpoint, you.
have to take that off ramp off.
You are getting a bridge over the
frontage road at Vincent but you
We are not through yet,
Mayor Krieger: I think the point of concentration
is internal traffic, I say that
I am in favor of closing Lark Ellen because it gives us better internal
traffic,
Councilman Snyder:
I think it is to our advantage,
Councilman Gillum: It would take the kink out of the
frontage road there, Is that
pedestrial crossover absolutely necessary since we are going to cut
underneath the Freeway and give access to the other side?
Councilman Nichols: I will go along with the Mayor
on Lark Ellen,
Mayor Krieger: What is the feeling onthe bridge?
Councilman Nichols:
I would just as soon keep it,
Councilman Gillum:
I am in favor of abandoning it,
Councilman Snyder:
I would favor abandoning it, It
seems to me it is something we
can throw away to get something else,
Councilman Gleckman:
I would like to keep it,
Mayor Krieger:
I would just as soon get rid of
it, We don't have any consensus
• tonight on that so we will pass that
without any recommendation,
Councilman Gleckman:
If you put a bridge in there to
keep the road straight, how
could you tie in Lark Ellen to go east
and west?
Public Services Director, Mr, Fast:
There would be a correction,
Mayor. Krieger:
Is the Council in favor of the
underpass at Lark Ellen?
-19-
C, C, 12/,0/66
S'AN BERNARDINO FREEWAY MODIFICATION - Continued
0 Councilman Snyder:
Councilman Nichols:
Mayor Krieger:
Councilman Snyder:
Page Twenty
I am for an underpass providing we
retain a frontage road either
with a bridge or a stop sign,
That is my position.
Do you have any objection to the
configuration of the frontage road
as it is drawn there now?
Engineeringwise if we could put
it straight it would be better.
If not, that's all right,
Councilman Gleckman: If we are going to keep the same
configuration you have on the
board, I would rather have the on ramp and off ramp before I would have
the underpass because our number one problem is ingress and egress
as far as the freeway is concerned, Unless you put in some giant
interchanges, you haven't changed the interchange at Vincent, You
still haven't given us additional off ramps here unless you are going
to come up to Azusa,
Councilman Snyder: We have to appear reasonable and
from the State's viewpoint from
• a safety standpoint on the freeway, it is necessary that on and off ramp
come out,
Mayor Krieger:
south traffic standpoint,
the Lark Ellen underpass?
Councilman Gleckman:
I think the underpass is of material
benefit to the City from a north/
Is it the consensus of the Council to go for
I am going on that basis depending
on what we can get at Azusa and
Vincent,
Mayor Krieger: I think the rest of the Council
is in agreement with the under-
pass at Lark. Ellen and the abandonment of the on and off ramps, Let's
go to Azusa Avenue, I think what we have said about South Vincent is
equally applicable on South Azusa as far as we are doing with our traffic,
Councilman Nichols: What would be wrong at Azusa,
taking the south side first,
to accept the frontage road pattern there in yellow as shown with the
provision that a bridge structure parallel Azusa Avenue at the crossing
there for that traffic which wants to continue eastbound?
Councilman Gillum: You mean along the freeway with
• an elevated road?
Councilman Nichols: I don't have the technical answer.
I think it is very bad to abandon
the frontage road as has been done there and attempt to throw it way
down in the residential area,
Councilman Snyder: I think the bridge structure is
as important as it is at Vincent,
With Azusa opened up, a bridge structure with access to Azusa from that
frontage road would be needed, I don't think the request is unreasonable,
®20-
C, C, 12/0/66
Page Twenty -One
SAN BE.RNARDINO FREEWAY MODIFICATION - Continued
• Councilman Gillum; You have to come up with some wav
to have a frontage road and a way
-b get from. the frontage road onto Azusa Avenue,
Councilman Nichols: It seems to me there should be
some way to have an off ramp off of
-that freeway eastbound somewhere east of Lark Ellen with those ramps
being closed that they would swing, that o.ff ramp in for Azusa Avenue fairly
close in to Lark Ellen there, somewhere bring that traffic flow
together with that of the frontage road and get a mix and get them off
at a final off ramp at Azusa and still allow that frontage road to continue,
Councilman Snyder: What we want, in essence, is a
straight through frontage road
with a bridge structure with connection to Azusa Avenue. We can't
certainly tonight sit here and figure out the details. Do you want to
do the same thing there that you are doing at Vincent? It is my
opinion that it is just as important there as at Vincent, or will be in
the future, If we don't feel the bridge is important there, then we
vznt a more adequate interchange than they have detailed here, especially
on the south side,
Mayor Krieger- Do you have the diagram of the
proposal we submitted at Azusa?
• Councilman Nichols; We have seen systems of freeway
off ramps where you leave a freeway
and you go up a ramp to a higher level and cross over a frontage road
and then drop down to be in the right position, When they want to
engineer something and to design something and accomplish their needs,
I am sure they are able to, All we can say is that we feel that
certain things are essential to this community, If they can demonstrate
to us that it cannot be engineered, that it physically cannot be done,
then we have had it, but it is up to them to demonstrate to us, not
up to us to design, engineer and draw freeway plans,
Councilman Snyder: I would propose essentially a
similar bridge structure at
Vincent with connections at Azusa Avenue as our first choice, but I
would be willing if we don't feel that it is as necessary as at
Vincent that we ask for a more adequate interchange on the south side
of Azusa and that proposed realignment of that frontage road be made
adequate to carry the traffic in width and so on,
Mayor Krieger; Does the rest of the Council
agree with Councilman Snyder's
approach? My objection to it is I think our primary responsibility on
Azusa Avenue is to get a better interchange, I am less concerned at
that juncture with the traffic pattern east and west,
Councilman Snyder; I'll accept that,
• Councilman Gleckman; Taking into consideration about
asking for better interchange at
Azusa, how close will that interchange be to what we are normally
speaking of now as a service road or the continuation of that service
road?
Mayor Krieger: We want to look at design alter-
natives for interchange on
Azusa Avenue south, Is that agreeable? On Hollenbeck, is it the
consensus the same as it was at Lark Ellen for the underpass?
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Ca Ca 12/,v-/66 Page Twenty -Two
SAN BERNARDINO FREEWAY MODIFICATION - Continued
• Councilman Snyder: I hate to lose Hollenbeck but I
will go along with that. The
same argument prevails,
Mayor Krieger:
At Citrus, we have Azusa all over
again,
Councilman Snyder: Here a bridge or some sort of
adequate .frontage road continuation
is absolutely necessary, Whether it crosses over the freeway and
continues on the north side or continues on the south side is unimnortant
but I think a continuation of a free -flow frontage road is absolutely
necessary plus an adequate interchange, The section on the north side
is really our problem,
Mayor Krieger: We certainly do have a commercial
area rapidly developing in the
southeast quadrant of Citrus, I think we should have better access to
them, We also have commercial along the south side of the freeway
between Citrus and Barranca and potential commercial along that area
that if we cleaned up that access on the south side over that Citrus
Avenue I think we could get better service to that commercial area,
Councilman Gleckman: You haven't discussed the ramps,
•All you have discussed is the
service road as far as I am concerned, and I think you are getting right
back to main street. The interchange still has to work in with whatever
you are trying to do, If we are trying to go from one end of our City
to the other along the freeway with a frontage road, let's say that
as we come to the interchanges, whether you go up or under or over, I
am saying rather than the three -lane road that they have designed over
here, all we are saying is continue the present service road we have
from one side of the City to the other, When we come to these
interchanges we want better interchanges and how we pet across them
we don't care, but let's do it,
Mayor Krieger: I don't think that is true.
I think it was true at Vincent to
tie those two centers together, What we want is a junior main street.
tying those two centers together, That hasn't been true again at
Lark Ellen, There we are talking about north/south traffic, We are
not concentrating on east/west traffic there, When we get to Azusa
we were talking about ultimately as we arrived at it about some other
alternative as far as an interchange was concerned, We weren't talking
about east/west traffic again, Now we are going on to Citrus Avenue
and we are talking about again a combination,
Councilman Snyder: We are not completely dropping
the frontage road concept on.
Azusa because, in essence, Azusa Avenue north of there is another main.
•street, This could actually be the termination of your junior
frontage road or main street to the west and junior main street east,
Mayor Krieger: As we go down each of these
intersections a priority, which
is the most important item at that intersection? Is it the interchange
or the east/west traffic that is the most important? I think as we
presently stand at Vincent right now on the south, the most important
"item for us to talk about is east/west, When we get to Lark Ellen, we
are talking about north/south, When we get to Azusa it is north/south.
When we get to Citrus, I think it isa combination of the interchange
and east/west,
!-WM
C. C. 12/5/66 Page Twenty -Three
SAN BERNARDINO FREEWAY MODIFICATION - Continued
Councilman Nichols> I still think that you have to tie
•those frontage roads into Azusa.
They don't have to be continuous but there has to be access.
Mayor Krieger; Agreed, but the most important
thing is to get an interchange
you can live with and then work from there. At Citrus we have a
combination of Azusa Avenue and Vincent. We have the need to work in
an interchange and a junior east/west type of street.
Councilman Snyder: I think what is proposed is not
adequate and will be a traffic
bottleneck. The priority is on the interchange but also with no less
importance to that east/west traffic problem.
Mayor Krieger-.
Councilman Gleckmans
Councilman Gillum -
there that could develop into
to go for this east/west thing
that property is out there and
• at some time at Barranca.
Mayor Krieger-.
I think the Council agrees on that.
Barranca is where we are going
to have a right-hand turn onto
Barranca.
The thing that concerns me is
we have a potential area out in
commercial and I think if we are going
I think we ought to consider that
it is possible that it could be developed
What is priority at Barranca; the
interchange?
Councilman Gleckman; I think on the south side it is
the off ramp; interchange. As
far as north/south traffic is concerned, you have the bridge and the
overpass and everything else. In other words, a free right-hand turn
off ramp onto Barranca.
Mayor Krieger: I would suggest this approach as
far as asking the staff to work
up something for us in preparation for this meeting with the State.
For openers, Vincent with the concentration on east/west; Lark Ellen
with the concentration on north/south; Azusa with the concentration on
the interchange; Citrus with the concentration on the interchange working
into a feasible east/west, and let's see where we stand from that point
on because we haven't discussed Service/Pacific on the west or Sunset on
the west and I don't think we ought to go too deeply into specifics
right now on Barranca or Grand or Holt and see if we can clean up the
middle in our discussions;
Motion by Councilman Snyder, seconded by Councilman Gillum, and carried,
that the staff be directed to prepare preliminary rough plans of the
modification of the Vincent Avenue Interchange with emphasis on the east/
west traffic which may include the necessity of a bridge; the removal
of the Lark Ellen and Hollenbeck off and on ramps with underpasses
provided; more adequate Azusa Avenue -interchange with emphasis on the
north/south but retaining frontage road connection on the south at
Least; and modification of Citrus Avenue Interchange with.an adequate
frontage road connection,
-23-
C, Co 12/.P66 Page Twenty -Four
'SAN BERNARDINO FREEWAY MODIFICATION ® Continued
• Councilman Gleckman; I would like to comment .for the
record that in stating what I said
a.bout the letter that was directed to us by Mr. Hoy or. Mr. Shaffer
regarding the $19000,000.00 on the north side of Barranca9 that it has
come to my attention that evidently the State Division of Highways is
doing everything in their power to prevent any development of that
property prior to any freeway agreement by requesting the people who
are presently developing the property north of Barranca interchange not
to use State right-of-way in crossing over to gain access to the property,
h9 as a Councilman,, sure resent the State Division of Highways, if that
is what they are doing, using this type of method to prevent any
development that is being done by private enterprise, for the best
interest for the State Division of Highways within the City limits of
West Covina,
Councilman Nichols;
CLAIM FOR PROPERTY DAMAGES
Motion by Councilman Snyder,
•that the claim for property
denied and that the claim be
Pacific Indemnity Company,
CAMERON AVENUE CONTRACT
As one who has always been strongly
in support of free enterprise, I
concur,
seconded by Councilman Gillum, and carried,
damages, Chic Accessories, Eastland, be
referred to the City's insurance carrier,
(.Mr, Aiassa and Mr, Fast gave a brief summary of this matter,)
Motion by Councilman Nichols, seconded by Councilman Gleckman,, and
carried, to authorize the staff to proceed with the Cameron Avenue
contract,
COUNCIL COMMITTEE REPORTS
WEST COVINA BEAUTIFUL
Councilman Gillums I received a communication from
West Covina Beautiful and they
are in a joint venture with the merchants on this anti litter program
and basically this letter states that over a year ago West Covina
Beautiful returned to the City $200.00 and the request is now that
•$100.00 can now be used in this program, (Read letter and gave summary
of this matter,)
Councilman Nichols; Would $100,00 be available from
any fund .for this purpose of
providing decals legally to your knowledge?
City Manager, Mr, Aiassas I think that should be reviewed
by the City Attorney,
!WLM
0
0
C, C, 12/-9/66
WEST COVINA BEAUTIFUL ® Continued
Mayor Krieger:
let them do with it what they want,
Page Twenty -Five
Maybe it would be better to give
it to West Covina Beautiful and
Motion by Councilman Nichols, seconded by Councilman Gleckman, that
of' the $200.00 returned to the City of West Covina by the West Covina
Beautiful the City Council appropriate back to West Covina Beautiful
for its use $100,00,subject to the approval of the City Attorney, Motion
passed on roll call as follows:
Ayes; Councilmen Gillum, Nichols, Snyder, Gleckman, Mayor Krieger
Noes: None
Absent: None
WEST COVINA-WALNUT WATER COMPANY
Councilman Gillum: In our racket we received this
request to the Public Utilities
Commission on this report of the West Covina -Walnut Water Company, I
find many things that somewhat disturb me such as buying raw water,
et cetera, (Gave summary of this matter,) I feel there should be
some consideration given or some serious thought given to this appli-
cation, I understand tomorrow Suburban is going to submit to the
Commission an additional proposal to be heard here at the City Hall at
the same time, I would like for the Council to direct staff to take
the new proposal from Suburban, if there is one, and compare the areas
such as cost to the user, the amount of money involved, and try to
compare these two companies when it comes to giving service to this
area which will be a very large segment of our City in the near
future,
Motion by Councilman Gillum, seconded by Councilman Snyder, that the
staff give the Council next week a report comparing what has been
proposed by the West Covina -Walnut Water Company and what is going to
be proposed to the Public Utilities Commission by Suburban Water
to service the area now known as the Home Savings Property, and that
the report be returned to the Council at the meeting of December 12, 1966,
Councilman Snyder:
to set their rates, don't they?
City Manager, Mr, Aiassa:
Councilman Snyder:
same way we would with Surburban?
City Manager, Mr, Aiassa;
The West Covina -Walnut Water
Company, has to go to the P.U.C.
They have made an application to
form a water company,
Is it in our interest as a City
to investigate those rates the
Normally,
Councilman Snyder: Then I think it is important that
we have this report because we
ray like to either protest these rates or support them,
Action on Councilman Gillum°s motion: Motion carried unanimously,
m25®
C. Co 12/15/66
COUNCIL COMMITTEE REPORTS - Continued
Page Twenty -Six
CITYWIDE BEAUTIFICATION COMMITTEE
Councilman Nichols: The Citwide Beautification Committee
met last Wednesday night for
preliminary subcommittee reports, They are being considered at this
time by the general chairman and the City Manager and staff to be com-
piled into a general financial report which, in turn, will be presented
to the overall Beautification Committee probably very early in January,
after which time, the formal report will be prepared and sent to the
Council for its consideration.
4TH OF JULY PARADE
Councilman Nichols: Some of you may have read in the
paper that a volunteer committee
had formed in West Covina to discuss the possibility of a 4th of July
Parade, (Gave summary of this matter.)
Mayor Krieger: I think it is an excellent idea
and I certainly would go along
with it.
Councilman Snyder: I would go along with it,
• Councilman Nichols: I will convey that informally
the Council expressed interest
in the idea and would like to be kept informed,
ANNEXATION MEETING (NO, 193)
Councilman Gleckman: We had the annexation meeting with
the people from 193 down at
LaSeda School, (Gave summary of this matter.)
Mayor Krieger: Councilman Gleckman has been out
time and time again into the wee
hours of the morning on these meetings, I certainly was greatly
appreciative of not only his work but the work of the staff who turned
out in force to answer these questions by people and they were well
prepared to answer the questions, I think Mr. Golden of the County
as well as Mr. Oswald of the School District ought to be complimented,
They came and gave factual presentations,
FORMING OF NEW COMMITTEES
• Mayor Krieger: There have been three committee
meetings set up in January.
January llth would be a committee on community goals,, This is the
committee created to activate the Real Estate Research Report, The
committee will meet at Stark°s Restaurant because we hope to have an
attendance upwards of 75 people there, Invitations are being sent to
the following groups within the community which we feel are
representative of the community: Youth groups; P,T.A, Council;
ministerial association; Chamber of Commerce; all the service groups;
-26-
C. C. 12/j/66 Page Twenty -Seven
FORMING OF NEW COMMITTEES Continued
•land owners in the distinguishable commercial areas; representatives,
being twelve in number, of merchants from the distinguishable commercial
areas; the West_ Covina and Covina School Board; veterans organizations;
fraternal organizations; Covina Valley Board of. Pealtors; the Women's
Club; business and professional club; League of Women Voters; Junior
Women's Club; Citrus-Barranca Association; the Queen of the Valley,
the Hartland, Intercommunity, and the Lark Ellen Hospitals; the Boy
and Girl Scout Councils; Sister City; Dental Association; utilities,
including water company, telephone companies, gas companies, Edison
company; student body representatives from each of the three high
schools; City of West Covina; and the newspaper,
Councilman Snyder: The hospitals in no way represent
the Medical Association,
Mayor Krieger: Other than the Foothill Medical
association more locally located? Association, is there some
Councilman Snyder: No, You could send it to the
Chief of the Medical Staff of the
local hospitals,
Councilman Gillum: May I sit down sometime with you
soon and go into this in detail?
I feel there are areas where we may have conflict and I would like to
have it clarified in my mind, v
Mayor Krieger: Fine,
Councilman Snyder: I think all Councilmen should be
present at this meeting even
though the Mayor should probably chair it,
Mayor Krieger:
I would agree,
Councilman Nichols: The only concern I would have, and
I think this is totally within
your area of control in terms of the implementation of the various
committee functions, that is that we don't, as Councilmen, become over-
loaded in terms of committee assignments, I would ask you to keep in
mind as this evolves that some of our current committee assignments
can be consimmated and phased as we move into this new area.
Mayor Krieger: The second committee coming into
existence as a citizens' blue
ribbon committee on the General Plan and the meeting date is calendered
for January 2.5th, This committee assignment has been given to Dr.
Snyder who is now phased out of the Civic Center Committee, He will
have the citizens' committee on the General Plan,
•The final committee which is
being activated in January is the Swimming Pool Committee and this
will meet on January 19th and I am taking that one myself,
-27-
C, C, 12/0/66
Page Twenty -Eight
There being no further business, Motion by Councilman Nichols, seconded
by Councilman Gleckman, and carried, that this meeting be adjourned at
10:45 o'clock P.M. to Thursday, December 8, 1966 at 7:30 o'clock P.M.
for the purpose of the General Plan contract review,
ATTEST;
CITY CLERK
r
APPROVED
MAYOR
191,10