11-07-1966 - Regular Meeting - Minutes•
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MINUTES OF THE ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
CITY OF WEST COVINA, CALIFORNIA
NOVEMBER 7, 1966
The adjourned regular meeting of the City Council was called to order
by Mayor Krieger at 7,30 o'clock P.M. in the West Covina City Hall,
Couniclman Nichols led the Pledge of Allegiance,
ROLL CALL
Present° 'Mayor Krieger, Councilmen Gillum, Nichols,
Snyder, Gleckman
Others Present; Mr, George Aiassa, City Manager
Mrs, Lela Preston, Deputy City Clerk
Mr, Herman R. Fast, Public Services Director
Mr, George P, Zimmerman, Assistant City Engineer
Absent; Mr, Robert Flotten, City Clerk
Mr, Harry C, Williams, City Attorney
GLENDORA AVENUE NAME CHANGE HEARING
Mayor Kriegera
I checked this matter with the City
Attorney this morning, by phone to
determine the procedure to be followed by the Council according to law
having to do with these items that are on our agenda tonight. To save
time, the comments that he made to me are applicable to this item and the
next two ite'ms.o,r> These are not public hearing items, The Council if it
wishes and in its discretion may entertain any comments, testimony, or
reports, but these items are not public hearing matters and only in the
discretion of the Council will testimony, reports, or comments be
received,
Now, with respect to Glenda
Avenue name change, we do have a procedure set up in the community
for street name change but this is a matter of policy, not a matter
of 1 Th
aw, a procedure initiated by an individual or individuals is that
the petition be submitted to the City Engineer and then a report be given
to the City Council based upon the findings of'the City Engineer and
the City Council determines what action, if any, it wishes to under-
take with regard to the name change initiated by an individual or
individuals,
In this case the recommendation,
if you will remember9 came through the East San Gabriel Valley Planning
Committee to the City Council and the City Council in turn referred
it to the Planning Commission and the Planning Commission submitted
its recommendation to the City Council on this particular name change.
The only legal requirement established by statute having to do with
name change is that the City Council must receive a report from its
Planning Commission, This we have done in the present instance,
.The matter before the Council
this evening is the consideration of the proposed change of Glendora
Avenue from the southerly City limits to its intersection with Vincent.
and Glendora Avenue and then proceeding north on -Vincent Avenue to the
northerly boundaries of the City, leaving unchanged or at least
under this consideration, the extension of. Glendora Avenue from its inter-
section with Vincent northerly to the freeway,
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G'LENDORA AVENUE NAME CHANGE HEARING ® Continued
Does the Council wish to
receive testimony on this matter from the audience?
Councilman Gillum-, These _notices were mailed out
to the businesses on Glendora north:
a.s of November lst, Actually what was stated in the notice that was
sent out?
Deputy City Clerks Mrs, Preston; "The City Council.o.f. the City
of West Covina will.conduct a
public meeting at the West Covina City Hall on November 7, 1966 at
7-.3G for the purpose of considering the matter of changing the names
of the following streets to Hacienda Boulevard" and the street
names were listed, 9
Councilman Gillum:
.As I understand, it is possible
that these communications to these
people were in error?
Mayor Krieger-, I think perhaps the use of the
word "hearing" according to
the information I have`from the City Attorney might have been in-
advisable, It is still dependent upon what the Council wishes to do,
• Councilman Gillum-, Apparently there are many people
here with the idea there would be
a hearing and I, for one, would like to hear from them,
Councilman Nichols; I don't have any feeling on it,
Councilman Gleckman: We have not received a recom-
mendation from the Chamber on
thi.s, Has the City Clerk received any protests of any type?
Deputy City Clerk, Mrs, Preston: We received a petition,
Mayor Krieger: This petition is on the stationery
of Muellers Prescription Pharmacy
dated November 31; 1966 and received in the office of the City Clerk
on. November 7th, 1966, (Read said petition,) This bears 21 purported
signatures,
Motion by Councilman Snyder, seconded by Councilman Gleckman, and
carried, that said petition be received and placed on file,
Councilman Snyder: Is it customary on a name change
to change immediately or can we
give,six months or so to make the change?
City Manager, Mr, Aiassa:' There is no form system as to
•time, A lot of cities if
they have a large change will probably do it over a period of one to
three years, People ordering stationery and supplies and names and.
et cetera can notify their carriers,
Councilman Snyder: When this questionaire was sent
out was it sent out with
respect to an immediate change or a change in six months or a year
or what?
MV&
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C, Co 11/7/66
GLnENDORA-AVENUE NAME CHANGE HEARING - Continued
City Manager, Mr, Aiassae We didn't send out.a
public meeting
advisedly used.,
Mayor Kriegere
naire9 just a notice
on this matter, I think the word "hearing"
Councilman Gleckmano
Councilman Snyder
Page Three
question®
of the
was ill
May we decide whether the Council
will receive testimony, reports,
.or.comments on this matter?
I have no objection.,
I have no objection as long as
it is limited and not repetitive,
Mayor. Kriegera The consensus of the Council
is that reports, testimony, or
comments will be received on this particular matter,
Mr, William Beem I am not trying to speak for the
209 South Glendora Avenue entire organization, but we do
West Covina have an organization now that is
the West Covina Center Business-
men's Association. This takes
in from Vincent Avenue to the freeway, Deedless to say, we all realize
the plan as it is established so far would be for Glendora Avenue
to be changed to Hacienda Boulevard to Vincent and north on Vincent
to San Bernardino Road which in effect doesn°t look on the surface
that it would have much to do with the area I am representing,
It does effect us as much as it does the gentlemen that signed the
petition turned into you, It effects us in our past advertising
because we have set an image of Glendora Avenue and it has been a
landmark for 43 years, We have material that has been printed in our
advertising for future use, We have the Yellow Pages that come out in
December and our telephone advertising and even if it is not to be
changed within a period of two or three years, still eventually if
they are going to change it and we do have that much time, we can change
the stationery in that much time, but in two or three years it will still
be effective as far as our advertising is concerned, We are in strong
opposition, I have talked to many of the merchants in that particular
area on this, They are opposed to it, I think all of us coincide with
one fact; the advertising, it is the image, and it is direction, how
to get there by saying it is Hacienda Boulevard now instead of
Glendora when we have just finally got the people broken into where
Glendora Avenue is in the old center,
Mr, Artie Jett I own property at 905 South
1829 East Alaska Glendora Avenue, I would urge
West. Covina you gentlemen to retain the name
of Glendora Avenue, Glendora
is as well known throughout the county, It has been Glendora Avenue
for many years, It is recognized as Highway 39, and I think the
major argument in favor of the change has been there would be a
continuity through the City of West Covina from considerable distance
to the south and from a considerable distance to the north, However,
I: believe that the major people who are urging this change in name are
people outside of the City of West Covina, do not own property on
Glendora Avenue, and are not property owners in the City of West
Covina., I have talked to several people who have voiced their
opposition to the change of the name,
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CQ C,, 11/7/66 Page Four
'GLENDORA AVENUE NAME CHANGE HEARING ® Continued
• Mr,, Chris Tambe I am here this evening on behalf
1500 West Service Avenue of the West Covina Chamber of
West Covina. Commerce to restate to the Council
action which was taken by our
Chamber of Commerce some three years ago,, I would like to read from
the Minutes of a Chamber Board of. Directors Meeting dated May 16, 1963:
"Relating to the proposed name change from South Glendora Avenue to
Hacienda Boulevarq, the Executive Committee felt that the merchants on
South Glendora Avenue should be polled regarding this -question. There-
fore, on May 6, 170 letters were sent to all businesses on South
Glendora asking their opinion about the name change and asking them
to send back the enclosed postcard with their opinion,, The results
of the 170 letters mailed are as follows: A total of 70 postcards
returned; 30 voted in favor of the change and 40 votes against the
change,, The action motion unanimously carried to concur with the
majority of the merchants polled to recommend to the City Council
that the name of Glendora Avenue remain the same," The position of
the Chamber some three years ago was to the effect if the merchants
on Glendora Avenue want the name to remain the same, then it ought to
remain the same,, If they as a body vote and the majority of them
agree that it should be changed, then we in the Chamber of Commerce
as an organization would support that,, We have not conducted any
additional studies since 1963 nor however, do we have any information
that the opinion of the particular businessmen concerned. on South
• Glendora Avenue has changed since that time,,
Mayor Krieger-,
This is open now for Council
discussion,,
Councilman Gleckman-, There is no doubt in my mind that
the recommendation we were given
by our Planning Commission came to us without holding any type of hearings
or getting any type of reaction from the merchants who this change
would effect,, Therefore, I for one do not really put too much
emphasis on the -idea of changing the name per the recommendation of
the Planning Commission,, Before I would vote for any name change,
I would like to see the Planning Commission conduct such a hearing
and then come back with a recommendation to us,, Otherwise, I would
be against it,,
Councilman Snyder: One thing I would like to see
occur and that is that this
hearing be conducted without an emotional interpretation of the findings.
I don't think this Council is going to change the name of Glendora
to Hacienda in the face of overwhelming oppositions but I would like
all parties concerned to really consider the fact if Hacienda
Boulevard isn't giving -them a better identification and a better way
of instructing people to the @outh to get to their stores,,
Councilman Gillum-, The thing that concerns me is
• it seems here that we do have
some people and probably a very large number of people on this street
that are concerned with the name change, I agree with Dr. Snyder that
we could find out from these people their feeling, I am also concerned
about it seems every once in a while something comes out of a group
outside of our City and -we -have a tendency to say it is fine and in
many cases it does have a definite advantage to the City, but I am
somewhat concerned about the City of West Covina losing its identity,,
Along; with this proposal from the Commission was also a proposal to
consider numbering streets from First and Spring in Los Angeles so we
become one large numbered street and again, I would oppose this very
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G'LENDORA AVENUE NAME CHANGE HEARING - Continued
• strongly, I do believe that this street has been known as Glendora
for 43 years and. I can't see any reason for changing it to something
else-,, especially when the people who do business on this street
and live in this community are ,satisfied *ith it as Glendora because
people feel in a large meeting outside of our City it might benefit
people not living in the community,, I_agr_ee with Mr, Gleckman and
Dr, Snyder that we should have some type of hearing and find out
from these people truly their feelings to this changing of the name,
Councilman Nichols- I think most of the people that
live around here and would use
these areas pretty well are able to .find their way around,, I can
see, of course, some reason for this from a planning standpoint why
it would look nicer on a master map, but I see as really the biggest
disadvantage a rather difficult situation developing at least
temporarily for people who operate businesses of any sort in the area
of Glendora Avenue that would remain Glendora Avenue, I don't favor
the change unless there is more of a mandate that would involve both
the people directly involved..as.well..as those who are concerned with
the planning aspect,
Mayor Krieger: I was the Council representative
to the. East San Gabriel Valley
Planning Committee last year and in fact, served as Chairman of that
•group last year, This group is made up of 13 communities who
together constitute the East San Gabriel Valley, This has been a
hot potato within that organization for years; truck routes have been
a hot potato within that organization for years; street numbering
has been a question for years within that organization; and during the
course of last year and over meetings that consumed a number of months
this matter was hammered out so that each of the representatives from
the 13 communities that they represented could report back to their body
on this matter as well as on the matter of truck routes; as well as
on the matter of house numbering, Now, in the study of the Planning
Sub Committee we determined there were 19 major arterials within the
13 communities that had inconsistent street names and many of them
had a very historical justification, but as the communities grew and
as they met and as these streets joined we were faced time and time
again with major inconsistencies in the street names and a certain
amount of logical confusion in the passage from one community to
the other, It wasn't in the mind of anybody that sat in on these
meetings that this would receive very favorable immediate reception
within the community itself because for one reason or another there
has been a habit pattern established within the communities that these
names that have passed on through the years, these are the names
that are established,, There is never going to be a time in the City
or any other community where it is going to be a perfect time to
get these street names reconciled. Sooner or later it will divolve
upon the governing bodies of these communities to take the incentive
in these matters and reconcile these differences,, It is going to
. happen and the merchants may not in 1966 but in 1970;or some other
time are going to find that these streets are going to be renamed;
if not by this Council.in this City, but by another council in this
City or by other councils in other cities, There has been some
progress since the report of the East San Gabriel Valley Planning
Committee to the member cities as far as certain name changes are.
concerned,but the progress has been difficult. I think this recom-
mendati.on.is going to stand and I think some day it is going to be
acted upon, Each city jealously guarding their vested interest is
going to have to wake up one of these days and give. I think one of
these days the City of West Covina is going to have to come up with a
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'G'LrENDORA AVENUE NAME CHANGE HEARING e Continued
. consistent name or convince the other communities to at least give
that street pattern a consistent name,, When that happens, I don't
know,, If this were a vote before the Council, I would vote to change
the name of Glendora Avenue to Hacienda Boulevard I would not be
in favor of the name -change taking effect immediately being cognizant
of the very same people have spoken tonight,, It would have to be phased
for 'a-. year or two and -it would come to pass,,
Councilman Snyder: Mr,, Beem, is it your impression
that the majority of people along
that street wo.uld_.op.pos.e the name change now?
Mr,, William Beem-. Yes,.i.t is,, The consensus of
opinion in my immediate area
is definitely.agai..nst_.a..name....c.hange, now or any time in the future,,
Councilman Snyder-. Don't you think that Hacienda
since it is a .fact of life
really gives you better identity than Glendora?
Mr,, William Beeme No,, We have established an
image and Glendora is the image
and name,, It is a location,, It is a street that has been named
this for many, many years. I believe there is a good deal more
• involved in.finances,, I believe that certainly a lot of money is
involved in changing the streets and numbering and everything else
throughout the City,,
Councilman Gleckman-. I agree with some of the
statements you made and I think
it just is a matter of time depending upon some of the changes we
will see within the next one to three years around the area of the
City of West Covina,, Until such time that we can orient the particular
people that will be effected that it is to their advantage to change
the name, I would like to make the motion that we drop the name
change of Glendora off our agenda; delete it from our agenda,,
Councilman Gillum-. I will second that motion,,
Councilman Nichols-. I can't vote for the motion as
it is made because although I
have spoken in opposition to the change my opposition is not an
opposition that would continue indefinitely on some philosophic basis,,
I would concur with your statements but in much less wordage, and
I think sooner or later we would probably come to that,, I would think
we might even be able to embark upon a program through our Planning
Commission and public relations in the community where we might be
able to convince our business community that it would be to their
advantage to make the change,, I wouldn't like to see it just dropped
at this time,,
• Action on Councilman Gleckman's motion-. Motion failed,, (Ayes:
Councilmen Gillum, Gleckman,, Noes-, Councilmen Nichols, Snyder,
Mayor Krieger,, Absent-. None.)
Motion by Councilman Snyder, seconded by Councilman -Nichols, and
carried, that the matter of the Glendora Avenue name change be tabled
for the present,, (Councilman Gillum and Mayor Krieger voted '9No",,)
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Page Seven
• VINE CREEK DRAIN
Mayor Krieger: There is a report that the Council
has received dated August 20, 1965
which is a recirculated.report attached to which is the fact sheet
and a current report dated November 4. 1966 from the City Engineer
andthePublic Services Director,- what is the.0ouncil's pleasure
having to do with testimony,- comments, or reports?
Councilman Gleckman: .I .would request that the staff
read the memorandum of November 4,
1966 that was given to the City Council aloud into the Minutes,
(The following is a memorandum
to the City Manager and City Council from R, E, Pontow, City Engineer,,
dated November 4,. 1966, subject Location of Vine Creek Drain 1964
Bond Issue ® Project 8402, Unit 3):
"Attached is a copy of
the memorandum dated August 209 1965, which was distributed
to the City Council at that time as part of the
information connected with aseries of hearings regarding
the location of the so®called Vine Creek Drain,Also
attached is a copy of a 'Fact Sheet' handed out to property
owners at a meeting in June of 1965 by the staff, At the
• conclusion of the discussion and hearings, the Council
concurred that the approved location was most appropriate
and in the general public interest, The present Council has
now requested that this information be furnished them and
the discussions reviewed,
"Several events have
occurred since the 1965.report which are summarized as
follows:
"l, Minor changes in alignment
worked out with Flood Control District engineers have resulted
in a downward revised tree count,
"Trees to be removed for
construction (including loss due to earth fill):
2" ® 12" diameter 463
12" ® 24" diameter 63
24" m diameter and larger 10
Total 536
trees in the Wash) "(Estimated at 750 of all
• "2, Flood.Control experience
indicates that some escalation in construction cost has
occurred, Finalization of design has also resulted in a"
cost estimate slightly higher than originally contemplated.
The latest cost estimate for the drain is now $497,000,0'0,
The cost mentioned in the 1965 report for the preferred line
in the wash was $421,000,00,- It can be seen that the
current price leaves a slight deficit when compared with
the $4889000,00 presently available, An alignment in the
streets for the protion of the drain west of Hollenbeck
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'VINE CREEK DRAIN e Continued
Page Eight
• would materially increase this deficit which can only be
made up with. City funds,,
113,, The consultant engineer
has submitted final plans and specifications to the Flood
Control District for construction and that District has done much
of its right-of-way engineering work based on the alignment
in- the na.tural.ravine,, Relocating to the streets at this
late date is estimated.to cost the.. .City.an._additional
$309000,,00 in -consultant engineering fees to redesign the
drain, as well as. an undetermined.amount by the Flood. Control
District for rechecking,,
"The staff has available the
charts which were pr.esented.to.Counc.il with an explanatory
discussion at the time of the original hearing in 1965,
If Council desires., these can be gone over again at the
meeting,
"A review of cost figures
shows that much of the saving in right-of-way acquisition,
which would result from locating the drain in the streets,
would be absorbed by additional cost of relocating utilities
• and building new sanitary sewer lines necessitated to make
room for the drain,, An ultimate additional cost alluded
to in the 1965 report would be a small storm drain to be
built in the natural ravine by individuals at the time they
wish to fill the ravine in, This drain is estimated to
$20,,00 per lineal foot, all at the expense of the individual
property owner,
"The cost figures (ravine
location) included in the 1965 report do not reflect the
amount needed between Vine Creek and Cameron Avenue in
Azusa Avenue, The cost for the street.location includes
sufficient capacity to make construction of this drain
unnecessary,
"The cost of the supplemental
future drain is estimated at $33,000,00,
"Some of the property owners
have raised the question as to why the 'Livingston Tract' in
the County above the golf course was not made to pay a portion
of the cost of the drain, in view of the fact that increased
runoff from the area is one of the main reasons for construction,
It has not been the policy of the City or the County to obtain.
costs of off -site drains from developers, The owners of the
Livingston Tract are taking care of drainage within the
boundaries of their subdivision,
"In any event, all flood
control storm drains are designed to accommodate drainage
from upstream on the basis of full development whether or
not theproperty is actually built up, The cost of the drain
is, therefore, the same regardless of any uphill subdivisions,
(For instance, this theory applied to Walnut Creek Channel
shows it was sized to receive run-off from development of
West Covina and other upstream areas as if they were fully
developed, yet West 'Covina did not have to bear that cost
differential,)
BE
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VINE CREEK"DRAIN Continued
• P°One of the items mentioned
in the 1965 report., is, a -vote of the property owners along
the natural ravine regarding their desire..as' to where it
should be located., This vote was to shed more light on
two'opetitions of 300 names and 100 names for and against a
ravine location, which included some names. from.outside of
the immediate area, It_.was_not..designed to be the determining
factor. but was considered only as.one.piece.of information
and was..specifical.ly requested by the Council,
"If a street location were
to be now decided upon, it would be necessary to take the
matter up with the Flood Control District and the County
Board. of Supervisors., This is required because the wording
approved by the .voters for the project in the 1964.Bond
Issue election call.ed...for.location.in the natural ravine,
This can only be changed by the governing body of the
Flood Control District if it is given good and sufficient
cause."
Councilman Gleckman: I have no objection to hearing
comments from the audience,
I have read all the material given to me by the staff and I do have
• a few questions,
Councilman Gillum, -.My,,- request for the informa-
tion was mainly for informational
purposes -which the staff has been able to supply, My main questions
would be directed to the staff, I have no feeling one way or the
other as to --whether there would be any testimony,
Councilman Nichols: I feel that on an issue of this
nature if anv citizen wishes to
take the time to come out to a meeting of this sort that_I am certainly
prepared to hear them out with the request on my own part-'7that'they
extend to the Council the.courtesy of not being excessively redundant
or long in their presentation,
Councilman Snyder: I have heard it all before and
certainly there is no new
information either in the letters written or in the new report of the
staff, There is one.thing I would like and that is the cost figures
on. Page 4 of the report of August 20th put.on the board,
Mayor Krieger: It is the consensus of the Council
that comments will'be received
on this matter,
Motion by Councilman Nichols, seconded, by Councilman Gillum, and
• carried, to receive and file the letters of October 27th over the
signature of Dr, Burson, and the letter of.October 2'6th over the
signature of Mr, and Mrs, Ming,
Mr, Douglas Stern The first question I have is
2436 East Thackery the aotual need for a flood
West Covina control whether it be down the
streets..or through our back
yards, Most of us who are here tonight have lived in the area for a
good ten years or more, Supposedly we have been through the heaviest
rain storms in history, One letter from Mrs, Ming_who is at the
MEN
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VINE CREEK DRAIN m Continued
Page Ten
• northern end, the bottom of the flow, stated.that they as me at the
northern end of the creek have.never. 4ad,any problem because of. flood,
Secondly, we continually talk about acquisition costs. This is
something that everyone interested in it, at least on my end of it,
has wanted to know,, What are the ac_qusition costs? We have seen none.
We have heard none.,, This seems to come up to a question of dollars
and cents, not whether or not we want it in our back yards, There
was a poll taken.of the property owners which was_a two -to -one vote
to go down the street as.oppos.ed to the wash, What we are all
interested in is preserving the back yards of our houses, of our areas;
that we bought the property and built our homes because we wanted to
live there, There are a few who have been filling in the wash for
their own use because they rather than we have not been willing to"
develop and improve it, Those of us who have and I believe we are
in the majority don't want to have -somebody down our backwyards and
we can't see any real reason for it. We are talking of tearing down
and taking out some 700 trees,, We have the only vestige of natural
beauty left in West Covina and it seems to me there should be as
much interest in saving something of that nature regardless of the
difference of dollars and cents. -if it is worthwhile saving than
there is in planting trees in lieu of ones we..already have,,
Mrs,, Francis Ming _ I have written letters; I don't
712 South 'Teri' Ann ..Drive - want to repeat them, I ' am
• West Covina pleading to save something that
I love, We searched the whole
City within the school district'to stay there, We looked for
something with natural beauty, We found it, We cleaned every bit
of debris out; we planted ivy; we got rocks to reinforce the side of
the stream bed; we were never in danger with the flow and it was
because of our own actions partially. Something that isn't in
your cost is the cost of possible damage to the structures existing
on the property, There are a lot of things built near the edges
of the ravine and I don't know that this is part of your cost
estimate,
Mr, William Ross I know that the City will
2420 Leighton Way ultimately get to this point,, I
West Covina would like to bring it to your
attention specifically and
directly that if we can look at the figures that have been placed
on the blackboard you will see that the street and wash and wash
to street from Hollenbeck to Vine, that there is a difference there
in cost admitted, stated and now written of $10,000,001, It will
cost $109000,,00 less to follow the Hollenbeck to Vine route in the
street as opposed to the Wash,, I say if we.cannot save all of these
trees, for heaven's sake let's save what we can,, We are talking
about 526 trees,, We are talking about at least 300 in that one area.
I am not here to abandon the cause of the lower group, but I am here
• to plead with the Council once again and state that any trees we
tear down are precious property that can never be replaced, Also, this
cost of this drain down Azusa which this will parallel, under the
circumstances, I think it justifies saving the trees in the wash and.
at least in that portion of the wash where the cost is actually less,
Mr,, Gilbert Kemp
734 South Dodha .:Bethf-
West Covina
in. the discussion not mentioned
about erosion problems that the
I would like to encourage the
Council to concur with the
previous decision keeping the
drain down the wash. Before
tonight there were people talking
wash is causing them, I suspect that
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VINE'CREEK DRAIN Continued
Page Eleven
• most of the people have to -ken care of their yards,, I believe there
are some that are not. A son of a personal friend of mine
contacted p6is6n oak by playing in this wash. We have some mosquitoes;
perhaps this is.where they -are arising from. We in our tract are
bothered by .termites in September and early October, and the
only place I can see where they can.come from.is from that wash.
Members of the City staff .say they cannot.go.in...and.spray for
mosquitoes and inspect for termites because this is private property.
I would encourage you to. concur.with the previous .dec.ision o.f the
Council,
Mr,, Elwood Early I think there has been a lot of
926 Coral Tree Drive the discussion on the c.-I
West Covina destruction of the trees and
that in the ravine and I am
very much in accord with-the.oppos.ition._to that,, Our own particular
property doesn't happen to have any large trees that would be
destroyed, but certainly our neighbors in a.11.directions except to
the: east would suffer from. it,,
Mr,, Donald Hutsel I understand there has been
for Mrs,, Cobath some change in the plan where
2204 Cameron the right-of-way along the
West Covina wash route was to be fenced,,
• I would like to have this
matter answered for me,,
'Councilman Snyder-, If the Council were to make a
reversal and the Flood Control
Districtwere to go along with it, where would the excess funds
come from for building this in the street? What possible sources of
funds would there be?
City Manager, Mr,, Aiassa-, City funds,, You could use
Flood Control Funds,, You
might have to put an extra tax rate on to raise the money. These
would be funds that would apply to the whole City,
Councilman Gleckmane This was a 1964 bond issue on
Azusa Avenue for the drain and
I inquired since the time about why this couldnet be tied into it
and the answer I have received was because of elevation and also
the size of the drain in comparison to what is being proposed in this,
tied in if the drain would go down Cameron to tie into the Azusa
Drain System that is presently proposed in the 1964 bond issue,, Your
costs reflectdiagonally into Azusa and go down Cameron and then down
Azusa you figured an additional cost of running a drain parallel
with the one that is being proposed on Azusa,,
• Public Services Director, Mr,, Fast-, That is not correct,, In the
wash it is obvious what the
cost is,, The figures for in the street are up Azusa and across
Cameron,, The others constitute the price essentially along
Alaska Street,, (Drew sketch and explained same,,)
Councilman Gleckman; There is no bond issue then
for the Azusa Avenue Drain.
with the exceptionof the one we are presently talking about?
Public Services Director, Mr,, Fast° Right,,
0
n
LJ
Ce C, 11/7/66
VINE CREEK DRAIN m Continued
Councilman Gleckman-. Going along with
proposed, can you
the drain that was proposed to go:.into the wash did not
from east -.of Hollenbeck to west of Hollenbeck into the
made a turn into the street and then into the wash?
Public Services Director, Mr. Fast-.
Page Twelve
what is being
tell me why
go directly
wash but rather
Actually.there are two threads
to the wash at this point, (Drew
sketch and explained same,)
Councilman Gleckman-. Was.there any consideration given
to the cause of thesmall amount
of money we are talking about from east of Hollenbeck to run that in
the street and go to the wash west of Hollenbeck? Was there any
consideration given to that idea of leaving the wash as is from east
of Hollenbeck?
Public Services Director, Mr, Fast: The design was partially
complete in the Washes when
these figures were derived and were only derived for the Council,
All the costs were developed by our consultant engineer, Insofar
as the right-of-way costs were concerned, they were all derived from
the basis of a visit that he had with the County Right -of -Way
Representative who visited with the consultant engineer, walked down
the wash, compared it to their other similar cirucrostances in Los
Angeles County, and gave this figure and it was an average figure
for the entire region based upon previous decisions to arrive at the
total cost reflected by these differences,
Councilman.Gleckmano
The figure of $512,3789 is
that the presently agreed on
figure now?
Public Services Director, Mr, Fast: Well, that was the estimate in
1965, However, I presume it
would increase our current construction estimate greater than it was
a year ago because.of increases in construction costs,
Councilman Gleckman-. If the construction costs
there are $497,000 and right
above you have $421,000, They have gone up since this .
matter was estimated approximately $769000, How about the right-of-
way?
Public Services Director, Mr, Fast-. We have not evaluated right-
of-way because we didn't
evaluate right-of-way originally, I could check that for you,
Mr, Jim Hutchison We were the designing engineers
Walsh®Forkert-Hutchison f6r your City on this matter,
18 Civin Engineers There have been no major changes
127 North Lang indicated from the Flood Control
West Covina District as far as increases or
decreases in cost of right-of-
way over the period since our last report, Increases in construction
cost is a gradual one until approximately two or three months ago
where it made a 10% jump which would effect not only the construction
in the wash but also in the street,'
-12-
C. C, 11/7/66
'VINE" CREEK DRAIN - Continued....
Page Thirteen
Councilman Gleckman.- Of the funds available, are we
talking about bond issue,
County money, what percentage is City money, et. cetera?
Public Services Director, Mr, Fast; Insofar as the bond issue is
concerned, the allocated fund
for many flood control projects throughout the County, of which the
Vine Creek Drain was one, when.they_al.lo.cated..these funds so much was
set aside for right-of-way and so much was set aside for construction,
We are only allocated the..construction..aspect, The difference
between the construction cost and the total cost comes out of the
right-of-way acquisition.budget which.r.emains.with the flood control
district,
Councilman Gillum- Getting back to cost of land
.involved, I am not quite sure
but I understand we have a total'of $5i2,000 for this complete project
and out of this $512,000 now it a.ppears,we are going to have to take
$4970000.
Public Services Director, Mr.,. Fast: We don't have $512,000 available,
We have $488,.000 now available for
construction.
Councilman Gillum: How much money are we talking
•
about to go down Vine Creek
Wash to pay these people for their property?
Public Services Director, Mr, Fast: In.1.965 it was estimated at
about.$9.1.,000.
Councilman Gillum.- No one has made offers or made
a determination on what this
property is worth except the County Flood Control man -going through
and saying this is approximately what this property is worth?
Public Services Director, Mr, Fast; He only did that because the
City requested this information
of the consultant engineer and the County was willing to do this for him
from the standpoint of giving him a general broad.budget .figure
which would for the project as a whole be within.the degree of the
estimates that were being made. Insofar as the actual procedure
for costs are concerned, we understand the County is preparing
acquisition in January of 1967. In the event the citizens are not
satisfied with the right-of-way offer, it goes to condemnation and
judgment by the court.
Councilman Gillum: Suppose we go this route and
go down the ravine and we find
a great number of people who are not willing to release the property to
the County for the amount of money the County feels is worthwhile,
then what happens?
Public Services Director, Mr, Fast: They would probably take an
action which involves the right
of immediate possession as far as construction is concerned and it
would go to normal condemnation procedure.
Councilman Gleckman< Did the County at airy time give -
us an indication that they
would prefer to go down the wash than through the street?
-13-
C, C, 11/7/66 Page Fourteen
'V'I 'r 'CREEK DRAIN ® Continued
• Public Services, ...D.ireator9.Mr., Fast- . No,
Councilman Gleckman; They left it up to our engineering
.or whoever would.., do..- the-. engineering
on this as to their. recommendation.. regard in.ge.c.o..sts...a.lone.7
Public Services., D.ir.ector,,_ Mr,. Fast.-... If you. call,.. them and.. ask them on
the phone.,...they will.. say you
are the City.. Counc..i1....and....i.f you. see the .,City Council., they will_ ask
the staff and. the staff.wil.l..say.it.tak.es.an..ac.tion.of.the Board of
Supervisors and the Board will not take this action without being
requested of the City Council...and..they have to.act. on.it.because it
was put in by -vote of the...peoplb.,
Councilman Snyder: In the event there is an excess
amount of money, what happens
to the excess amount of .money in the bond.is.sue? It is.my under-
standing it can.. be.. u.sed...for ..other..flo.od...control .projects in the City,
Public Services Director, Mr, Fast- Yes, It may be used. in other
flood.contro.l.projec.ts in the
City if it is of the 1964 bond issue, The Council has authorized
$75,000 worth of City funds: to_...compl_ete the Orange Avenue Drain.
• which is 1964 storm drain bond..issu.e... It could be added.to that,
Councilman Snyder- When somebody raised the question
of the --need for this flood control
at all, when was this floo.d.control_.and master plan of s.torm.drains
designed?
Mr, Zimmerman- It was.first-proposed.in.writing
in 1.957 in.connection with a
storm drain report and then in 1959 it was.officially.adopted by _.the
Council as part of a storm drain and.br..idge.projects .for the City,
This was a Citywide thing and it .showed the drain..being in the Wash,
In 1956 or 1957 a portion of the drain was.bu.ilt.in the wash from Azusa
Avenue westerly under the E1 Dorado School, In 1961 it was again
reiterated'in the City°s official storm drain report.. -and -all. -the
voting in the 1964 bond issue election...on this..,. -
Councilman Snyder- In designing a drain like this,
of course, you have to anticipate
the future build up of streets where you get faster run-off of water.
How far ahead do you design a drain; the size?
Mr, Zimmerman- These are designed to what is
known as a 10®year storm
frequency which means it. is to accommodate a storm as if the total
area were completely built up and one that would happen on an average
• of once in ten years, This is the major storm in ten years,
Councilman Gillum- In this report that Mr, Fasts
office sent with the accompanying
material it says the Council concurred that the approved location
was appropriate and in the general public interest, Later on in
the report it says this is required because the wording approved by
the voters for the project in the 1964 bond election called for the
location in the natural ravine, It seems there was some doubt in
their mind after the bond election was passed that the ravine was
the proper route,
_14m
CO CO 11/7/66 Page Fifteen
VINE CREEK DRAIN ® Continued
Councilman Snyder: That hearing was the same as the
hearing here.. tonight. It was not
required by lawn. I.t .was,_mer..el.y. to answer. questions.,
Councilman Nicholss This -has given me great, concern
in an.effor.t to vote.in good
conscience in the.int.er.est of th.e.community without -harming individuals.
It is the kind.of an issue that no.matter what.we decide, we lose good
friends which ... makes.it....doubly....diff.i.c.ul.t.. Nothing has been said here
tonight about.the one.out o.f..three.people.who.voted to put the drain
in the wash, I think something -should be said because I think the
single thing.that..I had to weigh in -my conscience more.carefully than
anything else was the fact that this drain was planned approximately
a,decade ago and in fact when El Dorado School was built by the West
Covina Unified School District., the school district's administration
checked with the City and.the.County and found..that.the plan.was
to improve the storm drain system by running this drain down the wash
and El Dorado. School, which was completed in 1956, at a great deal
of expense ran.the.drain.diagonally across.i.ts property to connect
with the ultimate drain which was to be improved. Among the people
who have bought in the area where they have a concern with this
matters two out of three say they want the -.drain left al.one.because
they have attractive landscaping, Approximately one out of the
three people say they want it to be improved and they say they
• want it to be improved because when they came and..bo.ught their
property they came to the City and they checked -and. -they were assured
that that portion behind:their property would be impr.oved.with,a storm
drain, They did go and check and they.saw..thi.s... If that information
was available a decade ago and..so.many people_.did..buy and.buy because
they thought this would be improv-ed., who _i.s. in.. a .more righteous
-position, those who bought and improved despite the plan that
existed ten -years ago, or those who boughtand asked for the improvement
because it was scheduled and known to.be.coming in.ten years ago?
This is the decision that has-come..to..me; to..try to determine that
one area and then secondary to that to_look.at...the._total..cost picture,
I feel badly that this is working a hards.hi.p..on_..s.ome people and it
is harmful to their property. I don't know of any evidence that has
come up that introduced anything to me that would enable me to change
the conclusions I finally reached after...thinking_ long and_ carefully
about this thing, I
Councilman Snyder: I am as baffled now as I was
when this started as to why
this hearing was held tonight, Nothing new has come up. I am trying
to understand the people's concern about their trees, However, I
live next to this wash just two houses down and I kind of like the wash
the way it is even though it is not improved there because my kids
and all the neighbor kids love to play there, but there has been
some talk tonight about it is just money and why doesn't the Council
go ahead and spend it and if there is anything that is our greatest
Spublic trust as elected representatives, it seems to me it is
equalization and fair spending of the taxpayers' money. Money we
can save on this can -be used on other badly needed drains in West
Covina and, believe me, we are many years behind on building storm
drains. Wait until we get another storm like we had. in ;1956, I
at sure.you will be convinced, In regard to this poll where one out
of three or two out of three favored this, this was not a vote; it
did not involve all of the people who had to pay taxes, and, again,
there has been discussion of money here but everyone of you, I am
sure, would like to see your taxes lowered but obviously in these
_15®
C, C, 11/7/66
VINE CREEK DRAIN - Continued
Page Sixteen
statements..you want your own. -lowered but the rest of the people in
.town's raised to improve y..our_.own back yards It just baffles me that
we could.even be a.sked.to do.this..when it -involves other.people's.
money,for_.the._.improvement of private property,
Councilman Gleckman:
.How.about the question regarding
fencing? Do you.know anything
about.that.?
Public Services Director, Mr, Fast.: We don't know anything about
fencing. Our design involves
a covered._drain totally. -enclosed with.no fencing_what.soever. Our
information is that insofar as the County is concerned, they will
not be requesting a dedicati.on.in fee.,. it will -merely be an easement,
There will b.e . no...f.ence,
Councilman Gleckman;
about $500000 spread over 25 years, 50
City Manager, Mr, Aia.ssa::
Are we talking of $50,000 out .
of pocket now or are we talking'
years, 100.years?.
c
At the time.of construction.,
Councilman Gleckman: Am I correct in assuming that
disregarding that the plans and
•the report we.. received .this evening, that: if ..thi.s. _would :have been
designed to go down the street east of Hollenbeck and then through
the wash as proposed,.that_the total..additional..cost would -have been
$10,000; is that correct?
Public Services Director, Mr, Fast: That's correct,
Councilman Gleckman:. How high are we going to fill
the wash?
Mr, Jim Hutchison: The minimum cover over the
pipe or box station would be
two feet and this is all that the flood control would.allow_to be
placed in there at this time, At Azusa it mould be filled up to the top
of the bank. As it goes easterly and the wash becomes deeper,
generally the pipe or box would be�'hear the grade.of the flow line
right now or two to three feet below that,
Mayor Krieger: I am more interested in the
currefrt report, Your report of
November 4th having to do with increase in cost brings some light to
bear on construction costs in the wash. Do we have any comparable
figures going down on construction costs only on the other alternatives?
Public Services Director, Mr, Fast: I would assume since these
unit costs, construction costs
are based on unit cost extensions of volumes and quantities in the
estimate themselves, that they would apply proportionately whether in
the street or in the wash,
Mayor Krieger: One of the explanations that I
remember from our original
presentation had to do with the greater depth that they had to go in
the street and displacements of utilities,
-16-
C, C, 11/7/66
VINE *GREEK DRAIN - Continued
Page Seventeen
Public Services Director, Mr, Fast: I.b.elieve what you .are recalling
is that Councilman Heath asked
why couldn't -the wash_go directly west on Vine.and.to Hollenbec.k and
turn northerl__y.__.on. Hall.enbeck.,.....and....the..staff ....c.ommente.d. that that. was
an extremely deep cut because..:of_..t.he._._h.i11._..on...vin.e....and we hadn't
calculated'.that.but 4e_were..sure.that woul.d._be even more expensive
because over and.above..that...one_that we.have.in Alaska itself.
Mayor Krieger: Mr, Hutchison said in.the wash
we.ar.e._ex.cay.at.ing in down
below the existing flow line. However, we are not going more than
four or five feet deep whereas in the street we would be Foing 15
to 18 feet.deep,
Public Services Director, Mr, Fast.: (Drew sketch and...explained
same, )
Mrs Jim Hutchison: In..discussi.ng this with -the
Financing Department. at. Flood
Control, the reason for the big jump of approximately 1.0% was..due to
the tight money situation; also, the_recen.t.increases .in labor rates,
and materials have had a chance to -catch.. u.p _with..the..la.bor increase,
The rate Flood Control has is compared_.with..an..engineering news record
• publication for the Los, Angel.e.s.,..area....and. this_...w.a.s._,not.ed_....in... that and
that is -how they arrived at their figure.and.....it.agr.e.es with the last
few bids which they have had and in some cases have had to reschedule
them. for bidding the leading ..por..tion. of. the._..proj.ec.t..to.. get the
price below the available_funds_.
Mayor Krieger: In your opinion based upon
this information current with
these ratios would they stay.approxima.tely the -.same in comparison with
these openings?
Mr, Jim Hutchison:
Yes;. they would.
Mayor Krieger: Your report also refers to minor
changes in�alignment. May I
take that statement literally that as to being minor or is there
something indicitive in that to suggest otherwise?
Public Services Director, Mr, Fast: No, We are "referring to at
the time of your last hearing
we just had preliminary.plans. Since that time the plans have been
finalized and we are talking in --terms of the snake track that this
drain makes within the wash itself.
Mayor Krieger: The allocation from the County
to the City is strictly on
the -construction cost basis; that hasn't changed since August of
1965, has it; the amount of the allocation?
Public Services Director, Mr. Fast: No,
Mayor Krieger: And the fact that the construction
costs are specifically allocated
to the City, whereas right-of-way costs have not?
Public Services Director, Mr. Fast: That has not changed,
-17-
4
Cd Cd 11/7/66
'VINE CREEK DRAIN - Continued
Page Eighteen
Mayor Krieger: In terms of what it will cost
i
' -the.-City-in the expenditure for
this project or for this phase of the 1964 Bond Issue project, we are
really talking about construct.ion.costs, are.we.not:, rather than
right-of-way costs?
U
Public Services Director, Mr. Fast:
This is.correct. We got into
right-of-way cost because it
was a. factor to, be. considered.
Mayor Krieger: When you say "deal with", you
mean literally in terms of any
differential if the bids come -in -above the. al.location?
Public Services. ..Dir.ect.or.. Mr. Fast:
Mayor Krieger:
whether to award the bid or not?
That.°s correct.
And then the determination is
made by this Council as to
Public Services Director, Mr. Fast: The determination will be as to
whether we can concur in
shortening the project, to come within. the availabl.e...funds or supplement
the available funds in order.. to com.plete.the project.
Mayor Krieger:
Well, the initial determination
as to the acceptance of bids is
made by whom?
Public Services Director,.Mr. Fast: The_County..
(Mayor Krieger: And then .is the.next procedural
step to ask. whether or not the
City acquiesces to the differential, if there is a.differential?
Public Services Director, Mr. Fast:
The only check with the City
afterwards .is. in_.the event there
is a shortage.
Mayor Krieger: And the contingencies that
prevail in this situation are
such that we are now faced with the possibility, at least, that this
may be the case?
Public Services Director, Mr, Fast: That's correct.
Mayor Krieger: And in terms of a reallocation
or more specifically a reallo-
cation to a street location, you indicate in your report that
. additional expenses would be incurred by the City in terms of the
design features; is that correct?
Public Services Director, Mr, Fast: That was an assumption on our
part. We would assume that the
Flood Control District would not compensate the engineer for a second
design out of Flood Control funds for a realignment of this nature
and I believe precedent would hold up this contention.
t
C, C. 11/7/66
'VI,UF ,CREEK DRAIN - Continued
• Mayor Krieger:
Page Nineteen
.What.j..ustif.ication do you have
.for the figureother than the
assumption, if any?
Public Services Director, Mr, Fast: The $3.0.,.00..0?. :.That is based
on normal.. f.l.00d . contr. ol. allo-
cation of de.s.ign;.._.bas.ed_. on .the .per.centag.e of...the..co.nstruct1on cost,
Mayor Krieger: How abou_t..the.assumption as to
policy?
Public Services. -Director, Mr, Fast: ...Well,..other than a submitted
ruling by the..Board of
Supervisors, has there been any precedent on .this, Mr,.Zimmerman?
Mr, Zimmerman: I am not.aware of any,
Councilman Gillum: ..I..under.stand the delay on the
construction of this is because
the County is behind?
Public Services Director, Mr, Fast.; Yes,
Councilman Gillum: In other words, because of their
lack.of manpower and because
of their inability to proceed with the'pr.oject after it was voted.
upon and passed by this Council, it is a very good possibility that
the City of West Covina will have to make up the difference because
of the slowness of the County.;_.i.s..that corre.c.t?
Public Services Director, Mr, Fast: You are referring to the
difference in.497 and 421?
Councilman Gillum: Yes,
Public Services Director, Mr, Fast: It's possible,,
Councilman Gillum: Because the County drug their
feet, the citizens of this
City are going to have to come up with .funds are we not if we are
to complete the project?
Councilman Snyder: The County is not necessarily
responsible that construction
costs have gone up and money is tight. I think the statement should
be corrected or at least rebutted for the record. It is quite
possible that money could have gotten less tight and costs gone down,
Councilman Gillum: I haven't seen it yet,
Mayor Krieger: The inequity is more exaggerated
when you look into the entire
Countywide approach to Flood Control bonds, We as well as other
cities have passively acquiesced in this for years and yet if you
are talking about dollars and cents we ought to realize, for example,
that the 1954 bond issue that we were allocated funds on from the
County was based on our assessed valuation in 1954 even though those
funds were.not spent until -- a portion of them were not spent until
1957 and 1958. The newer communities within the County of Los
Angeles, those whose assessed valuations have been increasing such as
-19- .
C, C, 11/7/6.6
V'I'N'ECR'EEK DRAIN e Continued
Page Twenty
ithe City of.West Covina have.been carrying historically a dispro-
portionate part of the bond..program$. The..storm.dra.in.program for
the rest of the County .but .this.. we have .gone .along with. for years and
have never... -drawn t.h.e. line._and....said. wa.it..a...minu.t.e, ..let.4s fight this thing
out, If you .are.,g.o.ing.,t,o:allocate it on the basis of assessed
valuation, take, current. ass.es.se.d....valua.tion_.whe.n.you.. spend. -.the. money,
not when the. b6md..is.sue is_ pas.sed.Q.
Councilman Snyder: We only..need.one more rain like
1956 and we -are going to.be far
short and you don't know...when._the.next.bond...issue will pass for more
storm drains. We have.:no._.r.ig.ht to build.. luxury drains... here. for
people when we. _should_.he ..getting . the .mo.st.. f.or our .money'.
Mayor Krieger: I was talking about the whole
program of storm drains. and how
the dollars.. ar.e._.alway_s..all.o.cated.,
City Manager, Mr, Aias.sa: It.is rather difficult to
realize thecomplexity of these
plans. When thes..e.. thr.ee...b.ond...is.s.ues were passed, . a...lot of us
cities didnot.ha.ve...enough.engineering.to get..the schematics out.
Within the last, eight...y.ears... al.l...-the.. citi.es. have been pounding like
• mad to get their_..plans_...and... specs ...in.. and .what. they have down actually
in the County Flood Control is not only multiplied..by., say., 2.00,
but maybe by, say, 700, to check the number..of plans. Now, the
County had just as much hardshi.p..recruiting..engin.eer.s as we did and
being a deficit of engineering, it is..kind of -hard -to consider all
of the burden onto the County.. We had..a.situa.ti.on_on the Orange
Avenue and I think and I wou.ld.like..to.g.ive..them..a compliment as
well as a blow in the head when .they....have..it.coming..; they initiated
an actual storm drain installation by three letters from three cities
and they did this before we even negotiate.d.o.f.f.i.cial.contrac.ts.a
So I mean it is kind of hard to say whether.we.can
Councilman Gillum: In my business.when I sign a
contract I.am compelled to
live with it and my only concern in my mind.that we have signed
a contract to do a certain amount of work and now they are coming
back and saying yes, we are sorry it is going.to cost more.money,
That is my only objection, It happens all the time,
City Manager, Mr, Aiassa: Those figures on the board are
still estimates and I defy
anybody in this room to tell me when we go out to bids that that is
going to hit on the mark any -one way or the other, When these plans
were drawn back maybe 1964, 1965, those prices might have been a
lot less because we did actually give a slight inflation to our
.cost estimates, but maybe we didn't give enough,
• Councilman Gleckman: My purpose in trying to receive
this information was because
this present Council as it exists right now is bound by a decision
made by a previous Council and unless one of the three members of the
Council in the past is suggesting to have some further action outside
of information, there is nothing else we can do,
Mayor Krieger: This was brought back to enable
the existing Council to examine
the matter and if it desires to take another direction, to do so,
Otherwise, this matter remains the responsibility of the governing
_20m
C, C, 11/7/66
'VTNE, 'GREEK 'DrRA I N 'Continued
Page Twenty -One
• body of this.community, which. is as presently constituted., Any
decisions made by this City are being made.by this City.Council and
the respons.ibility.wil.l..be borne equally by this City Council, This
matter is not irrevocable-,- It is only irrevodabl.eeither by lack
of action or. by .disclam6r. and there. is. no need. for thi-s...Council to
engage in idle acts. We have plenty of._..bus.ine.s.s. to involve us and
this matter _was..br.ought.._back._,b.ecaus.e....i.t. stil.l...c.ould..._b.e. r.ed.e.t.ermined
by the Council......if.. it....wa.s._.,so_...disp.os.ed.....to, _take .different. act -ion,.
Councilman. Nichols.:. I.,don't. feel.. -that. the_ Council as
a Counc.i.L...need.s.to take any
action to reaffirm _its...action....unless. one...or more. members .of the Council
who were not ...memb.ers..o.f...the ..Counci.l....when...the votewas_ taken . on this
matter wish to initiate action either..c.onfirming or modifying this
Council's position.. This_ di.s.cussion, .tonight....was..not...init.iat.e.d., by.
any one of the three_.. C.Dune.ilmen...who.._..v.oted.....o.n ..this_ .mat.ter-.
Mayor Krieger: I voted.. with_. Co.unc.i.lmen Gillum
and,-.Gleckman .to .set .this matter
for this meeting because I felt it should.have.the.benefit of their
consideration so that this matter that would take place during their
term of office would be something. over....whic.hthey ..did.... exercise some
judgment,
• Councilman Gillum: I requested this information
to go.along with what you stated
at this time. This is something...that.. is. going to. exist and.. going to
be put into operation within....th.e.._time.._of the gentlemen sitting at
this table, I would have to_..be .honest.. t.o.._s.ay. -that .in. my own personal
feeling it is unfortunate that _who.ever.-. made .the cho.ic_e. of going down
the ravine made that choice, I.. agree.. i.t..-i.s....getting. to, the point
that my boy cannot find a vacant.. lot. .t.o..play...in_ or...a...tr.ee..to. climb.
This is unfortunate. I would .hay.e..t..o..be.._l.e s_.than...hone.st.,...to., say
that I would do anything, spend additional..funds_...of the..r.emaining
citizens of the City in order to. change some.t.hing.. voted..on-.by.. the
Council, I have a responsibility to the.City as a whole. I can
appreciate your problem, I wanted the information that I have
received , I would go along with your._.. v.ote.. and....recommendation. of last
year,
past
Councilman Gleckman; Based on the information that
we have before us with the
additional amount of money that would have to be spent and based
on there being no possible way to take this additional money and lay
it out over a vast period of years, I couldn't in good conscience
either ask for the drain to go down the wash, At the same time, I
do feel that the idea of Hollenbeck, east of Hollenbeck to --
for the additional amount of money, the $109000, that I do feel
that the Council could have shown a little bit more consideration to
• save what was there. I am not stating that if I am asked to ;Hake a
decision on what was given here before me this evening and stand on
record, that is the way I want to stand, Maybe if I had a public
hearing and all the testimony, maybe I would have agreed with the
Council. Based on the testimony given this evening, I can't see
for $10,000 us abandoning that idea of going through the street rather
than use the wash of Hollenbeck, As far as the aesthetic value, you
can't buy it for $10,000"
Councilman Snyder: How do you justify fixing up one
group's back yards for $10,000
and not the other?
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Cd C, 11/7/66
VINE CREEK DRAIN - Continued
Page Twenty -Two
• Councilman Gleckman: Would you correct my remarks to
say $10,000.more to go through
the wash than the street,.p.l.ease?
Mayor Krieger: If I thought -that were the case,'
I.wou.ld_have suggested back in
August of 1965..tha.t..this. Council. was wasting .a lot._ of .time and I thought
we were wasting. ad.ditiona.l...time. ..tonight.. As, .faras. any mathematics
are concerned.....and...as. it effects the taxpayers of the City of West
Covina, which..is our responsibility, i.t .is.mor.e expensive to.go in the
street than it.i.s to go down.the.wash. I think the.figures were there
in August of. 1.9.6 5... and . the ..f.igures. are._s.ti.11 ..there, talking. about...
construction costs,...I think the.figures..in..1.965 when I cast my
vote indicated...a . diff.erential... between the.. wash.'.and. the wash/street
because the major objection.agains.t..was Hollenb.e.ck...ea.st...al.t.hough there
were some people who came..forward. on..Hollenb..eck...west.,_ _but. the. main
-4ifference was $4219000 from $4.62,000. That i..s_.$41.,00.0..now. They
indicate that the $4219000 has.now.gone.up to $.497,00.0. They have
indicated to me that the ratio..has.remained.approximately the same,
so I assume the expense would still.._be.:'in...favor..of going..down the
wash rather than down the street,. L don't know...any.place.to.make up
those funds except by tax throughout.the City of West.Covina, and
if there were a motion tonight to reaffirm this, I cannot as the
presiding officer make a motion, ..bu.t..._f....ther..e. was a motion. to reaffirm,
• I would second it.
Councilman Gillum: I.wil.1 so move.
Mayor Krieger: Se.co.nd.._the.motion.
Councilman Gleckman; You are looking at construction
costs.only and --not right-of-way
and I am looking at both. As far as_ I. am ..concerned, if you couldn't
see that in August of 1965 I am not going to make you see it here
this evening, but neither am I going to a.cc.ept.. your... analo.g.y...against
my analogy when those figures are. on that . board_;
Councilman Snyder:. There is a difference in the
type of.funds..
Mayor Krieger: In August of 1965 we spent a
great deal of time in education
to convince members of this Council that construction costs are
different than right-of-way costs as far as this City is concerned,
What I am concerned about is that we pick up the tab on construction
costs as it is different between funds available or'funds allocated
and the actual cost. That is what concerns us.
Councilman Snyder: Of the remaining master plan of
• storm drains, how many do we
have left for out of the various bond issues?
Public Services Dirgctor., Mr. Fast: None.
Action on Councilman Gillum's motion: Motion passed on roll call as
follows:
Councilman Gillum; Aye.
Councilman Nichols; Aye.
-22-
C, C, 11/7/66 Page Twenty -Three
VI'N'E CREEK DRAIN Continued
• Councilman..Snyder:. Aye,
Councilman Gleckman; No, ..I want my vote to show that
it,appear.s only because it is
in total and has nothing to....d_o... with. what. I... suggested from Hollent)eck
to Vine,
Mayor Krieger;
WILD ANIMAL ORDINANCE
Mayor Krieger:
Aye,
We have had -this ordinance for
som.e.time., What is your pleasure?
Councilman Snyder-.....Is..it.nec..es.s.ary,at,..all? Regarding
bees, we still have some
agricultural land -in the -City. and bees. are..a.domestic.....productive
animal,
Mayor Krieger: I think it is necessary because
our ordinance now in.4301 we
talk about wild animals and we don't def.ine.it any place. One of the
attempts in this ordinance was .t.o. define._a...wil.d...animal., ... Secondly,
we could strike out, and perihaps bees could. .b.e_.something that could
be striken out without too. much..dif.ficu.lty.,... I .think. this.. does fill
a need in terms of spelling -things out... that.. we, don.°.t. present iy' have .
Councilman Gillum- I.am sure we -would-be surprised
to find some of the animals in
this community kept as pets. I agree that.I think.ther.e.is a need
and I do agree that we should exclude bees from ..this_.ord.inance,
Councilman Snyder: Or you could say "except in an
agricultural zone". Or, we
could add, "except as approved by the Health Department",
Motion by Councilman Nichols, seconded by Councilman Gillum, and
carried, to direct the City Attorney to prepare an ordinance
substantially in the form to that submitted with his letter of
August 6, 1966 deleting therefrom all reference to bees and pigeons,
SKELTON PROPERTY ON MERCED AVENUE
City Manager, Mr, Aiassa- I would like to inform the
Council we are going to call for
• formal bids, (Gave brief summary of this matter,)
Motion by Councilman Gleckman, seconded by Councilman Gillum, and
carried, to accept the recommendation of the Public Services Director
in this matter,
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•
0
0
Cd Cd 11/7./66
COUNCIL COMMIT.TE.E REPORTS.
COUNTY LIBRARY_C.OMMUNICATION
Page.Twenty-Four
1
Councilman Gillum: I. have- a 1_etter from the County
Library .re. the._ use of pages
at the exits...of the..library fr.om..Octaber... 24th _thr.o.ugh November 30th.
These people will.ask each..departing�;patron if they have checked out
the library material they are carrying and hope to reach some conclusion
regarding the high loss of library material.
CENTRAL BUSINE.S.S ...DI.STRIC.T
Councilman Gillum: There was a meeting of the
Central... Bus.iness_..Distric t
Thursday called by Mr. Wax. an.d...the. ..p.eop.le._.in ...the....ar..ea.,.. O.ne of the
members of the CBD had made a reques.t_.and.._.it._was.. voted_...on._.by the CBD
to' -request the Council that _ basica.11y._ what...the.y . wanted_.is... they have
proposed additional signing program...a.long.wi.th....the one we have
approved. (Gave brief summary of this.matter.) My suggestion to
them was that possibly we could combine . some. ...of_:.th.e_.s.igns...that....have
been approved along with what ..they..wauld_._lik.e....to..see,...
Mr. Phil Wax:
a signing program to sign the civic
It was brought out
we already voted on
them into the area,
possibly we might
and approved...to.
The Broadway hired --- a . professional
.tr.af.fic . man to go ou.t..and research
center.and..the shopping areas.
be able to combine the signs
add.. the _ietter..ing ..on_. there to bring
Mayor Krieger: Inasmuch..as the .original
recommendation came from the
group we acted upon it and now apparently there is a certain overlapping
of signage. Does the Council want to•hold_..up the.acti.on...previously
taken to consider the entire package?
Motion by Councilman Gillum, seconded by Councilman Snyder,
carried, that the Council approve that the Central Business
District Traffic Committee and the staff Traffic Committee
together and give the Council a recommendation whether it i
or not to combine these two types of signs and hold further
on the other motion relating to this matter.
ANNEXATION REPORT
Councilman Gleckman:
The
over
193 and they came up with some corrections
bring up to the following Council meeting
One of them is most controversial,,
and
work
s feasible
action
annexation committee went
the booklet to be mailed to
and deletions which I will
for your approval or denial.
-24-
:7
0
•
The Citywide Beautification
Committee has.met several times.
They have gone last Saturday on a three or four-hour tour of the
City, They have broken up into a number of sub.c.ommittees to
investigate various aspects of Citywide beautification, They have
a functioning chairman and they expect to have a preliminary report
by early December9 which then they hope to finalize early in the
new year,
SCAG
Councilman Snyder:
Planning Proposal which consisted_of
program prepared by the staff. It is
staffing will be furnished by member
can be assessed for participation in
of the assessment is not mandatory,
communication and circulate it,
ELECTION
Councilman Snyder:
Co Ca 11/7/66
,CO,UNCIL COMMITTEE REPORTS - Continued
PARKS & RECREATION
Councilman Gleckman:
meeting and.I met with Mr. Gingrich 1
program, (Gave brief summary of this.
ask this Council to.authorize..them to
things over there and I think it woul
it some thought and approved it
away from the Little League we
this League and this would be
than any financial help,
a
Page Twenty -Five
a
d
The Parks and Recreation meeting
was the same night we had our
st Friday and went over their
matter,) They are going to
use City equipment to do certain
.be.a good. idea if we gave
because at the time we took the field
were going to grant some relief to
much better way in my estimation
CITYWIDE BEAUTIFICATION COMMITTEE
Councilman Nichols:
There is a SCAG meeting Friday.
They did pass the Regional
a long-range regional planning
important.to note that the
cities where possible and you
this program, but the payment
I will make copies of this
There is a group going around
advising a no vote on the
Supreme Court Justices and I feel compelled to say something on this.
It seems to me this same group goes around stating their belief
in the Constitution and it is part of the oath, I am sure, of the
Supreme Court Justices to defend the Constitution, and yet they want
to remove them from office for doing that very thing. I think this
is a terrible thing that is happening in California politics, I
don't think Supreme Court Justices or any judge should be subjected
to that kind of pressure,
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C, C, 11/7/66
'CO'UNCI'L-COMMITTEE REPORTS - Continued
INTRODUCTION
Page Twenty -Six
Mayor Krieger: I would .like to recognize the
presence tonight of one of the
members of the Board of Directors of the Chamber of'Commerce, Mr,
Bergman,
USGVWA MEETING
City Manager, Mr, Aiassa:
Councilman Gillum:
LAFCO HEARING
.The USGVWA is having a. meeting
Wednesday night at the T&G
Restaurant in Rosemead,
I have made a reservation,
City Manager, Mr, Aiassa: There is a LAFCO hearing on November
loth on`Annexation 199. We will
have staff representation on that date,
SACRAMENTO TRIP
City Manager, Mr, Aiassa: I would like permission to go
to Sacramento with Mr, Eureka
on the loth, Mr, Fast will be Acting City Manager while I am gone,
Mayor.Krieger:
The Council has no objections.
There being no further business, Motion by Councilman Nichols, seconded
by Councilman Gillum, and carried, that this meeting be adjourned at
10:15 o'clock P.M.
0 ATTEST:
CITY CLERK
APPROVED -f�L� �%
MAYOR
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