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10-31-1966 - Regular Meeting - MinutesMINUTES OF THE JOINT MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL -AND PLANNING COMMISSION CITY OF WEST COVINA9 CALIFORNIA OCTOBER 81, 1958 The joint meeting of the.City.Counc.ii and Planning Commission was called to order by Mayor Krieger at 8.-00 o'clock P,,M,, in the West Covina City Hall,, Councilman Gleckman led the Pledge of Allegiance,, ROLL CALL Present,, Mayor Krieger, Councilmen Gillum, Nichols, Snyder, Gleckman Chairman McCann, Commissioners Mayfield, Mottinger, Adams, Jackson Others Present- Mr,, George Aiassa, City Manager Mr,, Robert Flotten, City Clerk 8 Admin, Assistant Mr,, Herman R. Fast, Public Services Director Mr. George Zimmerman, Assistant City Engineer Mr,, Wallace Austin, Planning Associate Mr,, Byron Larson, Traffic Engineer • Mr,, Rudy Figueroa, Planning Department SAN BERNARDINO FREEWAY AGREEMENT Mayor Krieger- We will open this matter up first to the Planning Commission for any comments they wish to make and then ask the staff if they wish to supplement the information given the Council in their report,, Chairman McCann- (Gave brief summary of this matter from the Planning Commission's point of view,,) With minor exceptions, the plan as submitted by the State was acceptable to the Planning Commission,, Commissioner Adams- I think the new points that came up and these were brought on by the differences and some of the new facets that were being proposed at the last public hearing, that we have had a chance for clarification of the items Commissioner Mottinger- I would like to underscore one facet and that is the purpose of the freeway is to bring traffic through and,to-our City and from it as easily as it can possibly be done, We feel the State plan is good,, It is a workable means toward alleviating part of this traffic problem, I think too frequently we -have a tendency to blame the freeway for all of our ills in our internal traffic problems,, Regardless of what we might be able to do with on and off ramps, we are not going to correct the internal flow pattern problems of the City, Commissioner Jackson- As far as I'm concerned, it boils down to a few trouble spots,, It is a matter of looking at the benefit of the majority,, -90 Joint Meeting 10/31/66 Page Two SAN BERNAR'DINO 'FREEWAY AGREEMENT —Continued Mayor Krieger-, Comm-issi.oner Mayfield, the Council is cognizant of the fact that you abstained .from..vo.ting, Do you have any comments at this time? Commissioner Mayfield-, I would prefer to refrain from commenting, I believe in the interest of the City that an early solution to this would certainly be of great benefit to all.concerned, Mayor Krieger-, We will "give.the staff a chance to make further comments on this matter if they wish, Public Services Director, Mr, Fast-, We feel the report itself is self-explanatory since the report essentially parallels the report the Council received earlier, There is one additional section in which we do discuss some existing underpass widths, Otter than that, it is essentially an updated report bringing into focus certain comments or questions that the Planning Commission had at its,public hearing, Representatives Mr, Hoy and Mr, Schaffer from the Highway Department are here to answer any questions you may have, • Councilman Gillum-, Quoting from the staff report, "The results of this proposed construction will affect the well -.being of this community and adjacent communities in a manner greater, perhaps., than any other single action," We have received petitions from people in the area of Lark Ellen and Hollenbeck opposing the action of extending these streets through the freeway, We do represent a city of 609000 or better and we have to consider what is best for the City of West Covina, I feel because of indecision in the past years we are faced with these problems in our community today, I-thnk what the Planning Commission has come up with, what the staff and'what,,,we decide is going to affect our community and adjacent communities from here --on out, I, myself, am satisfied with the report from the staff, Councilman Gleckman-, As far as I am concerned, the freeway design that we are going to finally achieve in this agreement will be something that this City is going to have to live with for the next 50 or 100 years unless the State has other plans to change it in two or three years, My main concern is that whatever we decide to-do at this particular time we can live with for the next 20 years, On the closing of -Lark Ellen and Hollenbeck, I can°t see where in this -agreement to be specific that we have received proper -off ramps to handle the -additional load of traffic that will be coming -off the freeway that is presently coming off the freeway, I see where we requested a 8=ramp design off • of Azusa Avenue and the resson we did at that time was that Even considering not closing Lark Ellen we felt this was necessary.because Azusa Avenue today can't presently handle the amount of traffic with Hollenbeck and Lark Ellen open, We have been cut back to a 6-ramp design, In the prior agreement I felt we had to get what was best for the City and not what was best for the State Division of Highways, If there was a happy medium there, I haven't seen it because a compromise made by this City by that contract being proposed to them was further compromised by the State, As far as I'm concerned, I am not happy with what has been approved by the -2- Joint Meeting 10/31/66 page Three S'AN BERNARD'I:NO rREEWAY AGREEMENT o Continued • Planning.Commission.in total, There are certain areas that I could see that this would.be the proper improvement as far.as I am concerned and. the City of West Covina will.most benefit by, But in key areas such as Azu.sa.Avenue, such as.Citrus_, such as Grand.,.the.interchange we presently have at Vincent is most inadequate. I don't think the State Divis&on of Highways would design that type of,interchange for a City knowing that.the..amount of traffic that.they.are try_ing..to dispose of outside of getting it...off the freeway, I.would like to take each interchange and go through -it so there will be an understanding what our specific obj ec.tions_. are in each case. Councilman Nichols-, I agree substantially with Councilman Gleckman°s remarks, There have been comments made by our Planning Commission that there. -are certain internal street problems, We have alluded to Workman Avenue, Walnut Creek Parkway, We haven't touched upon the fact that we are dealing with an absolutely staggering sum of money that will be involved in solving this internal crosstown traffic problem, I gather the Planning Commission's approach was these problems are West Covina°s problems and the freeway design ds--a freeway design is adequate, that is what we=;ane seeking, I would like to go back ten or • twelve years and ask the gentlemen of our Planning Commission.and gentlemen -from the.State of California if Garvey Boulevard had been left untouched by any freeway development at all, what would have been the pattern of the.,development of West Covina? If the freeway, let's say, hypothetically had run on Valley Boulevard or up north, I rather suspect it would have had a very major and significant relationship to the types and extent of development that would have occurred in. -this City, I suspect that.as areas developed that avenue providing access north and south and east and west would have developed more as a central business district for this.City, It is my contention, -gentlemen, that when the freeway came through Pomona and it was routed to the north and Holt Avenue was left alone to serve the -City, when the El Monte battle occurred, that certain things were salvaged by those communities that now they are -'Able to live with it, I think that when the State of California came into West Covina with plans drawn before this population explosion hit us and preempted the -only major east/west route in this City and then left us to developa city on each side of it as best we could, that the State does9.in fact, morally, if not legally, has some additional degree of responsibility in terms of our traffic problem internally in the City than it would otherwise, My objection, as I look at this in addition to other things that have been done, is that -it -solves the State°s problem for routing -people through this City, for getting them off where they want to, -get off, but I think it has compounded . the internal circulation problem in this City, It has routed service -roads through additional residential areas, for one thing, It has made our service roads an -even more difficult pattern to follow than 1hey exist at the present time, I feel this plan has'done nothing to help us with a problem that I feel the State helped create for us, I think we are entitled to more help than that, My objection does not include a basic objection to underpasses at the streets involved, though I can understand in every sense the objection that the person would raise who lived in the area, -3q Joint Meeting .10/31/66 Page Four SHIN BERNA DINO FREEWAY AGREEMENT o Continued • Councilman Snyder-, I would agree with Councilman Nichols about the pre-emption of our only east/west street with the qualification that, of courses Since we were a.small city when this occurred that we bore equal responsibility in not planning-east/west circulation as the City grew,, I think no matter what agreement we come to regarding this freeway that some.Counc.il._somet.ime.and I think it should be this Council, should make a definite plan and start to correct the east/west traffic flow no matter what the cost,, I think we have delayed too long on that and we have attempted.to.put the blame somewhere else and I think we are going to have to do that _now,, Regarding this agreement, I think if there were another plan in which we gave up more interchanges but put wider frontage roads the length of the City, which the Mayor proposed sometime back at a meeting, that I would prefer this plan if it were acceptable to everybody,, Failing in that, I think that the staff report is excellent on this particular plan here,, I go along with the additional comment that we have to take positive action now to correct the east/west traffic flow off the freeway,, Mayor Krieger-, I agree with the staff°s report • when it talks.about the importance of this decisiono I believe that the Planning Commission has done a conscientious job with this report as has the staff,, I am not quite convinced that the State Division of Highways and the Bureau of Roads have carried out their responsibility as they had them,, It seems to me this Council also has a responsibility in this situation,, What is our primary objective? If our primary objective,is merely a sense of passive cooperation in allowing the widening of the freeway, then I think we -are going to have to look around for solutions in other areas to a very serious east/west problem in this community,, I think our primary responsibility is internal and I would agree that primarily my field of concentration in this study is not on the subject of —interchanges; it is on the question as to what are we going to do'with this-traffio within our community itself, and I have heard proposals having to do with Walnut -Creek Parkway and with Workman -Avenue,,- The -only -thing I -am confused about is how do we accomplish this,, Where -do -we get -the money from and how about the - mass dislocation that therefore takes place along these areas? I think this community owes a great -.deal to -the San Bernardino Freeway, but it has been a mixed blessing,, I am prepared to give up a -number of interchanges going through this -community if we can recreate a major internal arterial somewhere along the border of the freeway. I think only in this way are we going to gain true access to these areas along our freeway,, I am concerned with some of the • problems that people bring to us that live along bark Ellen and Hollenbeck,, I am mystified as to how -we are going to solve the problem by u-sing Workman. and Walnut Creek Parkway,, I would hope the Council tonight would gave some consideration to a total review of this concept of the freeway coming through West Covina,, I think of primary importance is how do we get back to a workable east/west arterial going through this community and I would hope that such is possible and. that such is possible contiguous to the freeway -so that people getting off the freeway can then transverse our City with something that makes sense and not uphill and downhill as far as trying to find their way around,, -4= Joint Meeting 10/.31/66 Page Five SAN BERNARDINO'FREEWAY AGREEMENT o Continued • Councilman Snydere I would like to ask the staff if they have any proposals for retaining Orange, Vincent, Barranca.,...and.Azusa interchanges and connecting.a_main frontage road. through? Is there any rough example of how this.. _could_..be._a.ccompli,s.hed or might .be accomplished?.. Mayor Kriegery I asked sometime ago the staff to prepare -.schematically on an aerial photo some idea of what this would look like and they do have it and I think if the Council.is receptive to seeing it., it might be well to display it. CA map was presented and_Mr.o Aiassa gave a brief summary .of this matter.) Mayor Krieger. I was interested in looking at this not from the standpoint of an.expressway, and I don't believe it would be advantageous to open up areas -along the frontage road because of the traffic flow being at still fairly high speeds. I think.it is interesting from the.standm point of at least considering the pos.sibil'ity of schematically portraying a main street along either the north or south or both sides of the freeway that would effectively service areas north and south of'the traffic coming off the freeway. 0 In talking about giving.up interchanges, I don't feel we can effectively service a main street in this way, but I think we could eliminate a number of interchanges within the community and effectively service into a main street. Councilman Gillum. We are trying to provide easy methods of coming off freeways into shopping areas. My first impression of this is if you miss the first ramp you will go clear through town. I think this would do more harm as far as our business community is concerned. Council,inan Snyder- How about a main wide street? It doesn°t have to be on both sides. Retain, say9 Citrus or Barranca, Azusa or Vincent, Orange/ Paci�f'ic, and Grand. That-,Would-leave.four main interchanges. Mainly your east/west problem is for shoppers between the two shopping centers and I think they are more likely to develop and prefer a. wide frontage road along the freeway than they are ever to prefer Walnut Creek. Parkway, Mayor Kriegerg t`�almost figures ifyou are considering east/west traffic and you do something on the north side you are going to have to do something on the south side. If it has some adjacent factors to the freeway I..think perhaps we might be able to solve it with just one • major east/west arterial that has good access on north/south directions to our internal street system. Chairman McCann. You can't do anything to one side of the street unless you do it to the. other. side. I think if you have a full frontage road on the north that most assuredly it has to be on the south. Otherwise, you will have your problems all over again. _5= Joint Meeting .10/31/66 Page Six 3AU BE.RNARDINO FREEWAY AGREEMENT o Continued • Commissioner Jacksono I think the thought is excellent,, I .don ° t ..look -at .a _service road as an expressway,, I would say this_is. the answer to it. It will take a lot of study,, I-think.it.-is a.good thought.and something to work from, Councilman Snydere May I suggest that the Bourse to follow would be to have this drawn. up in greater detail with, say, a maximum of four interchanges with a main street or frontage road concepts not necessarily the expressway concept, and the four interchanges to service Highway 39, et- cetera, and•for the staff to prepare. -something like this with as _much dispatch as possible and bring it back so we can at least talk intelligently to the State whether they would_accept._it..or not? Councilman Gillum; I think we are talking about nuts and peaches; and the nuts are on the freeway and the peaches are in the City, I think if we try to mix them up we are going to have fruit salad. I think we are asking for a problem if we run a frontage road or any type of a road next to the freeway combining the traffic from our City with traffic coming .off the freeway, I.personally.cannot.see where we._are going to gain a thing by putting it that close to the freeway, I think it has to be moved back from the freeway to. give the people of the City room to breathe, Mayor Krieger-, I donet think we have.any prototypes here, We have some very unique and peculiar.problems.in this community and I think this has to be approached on a basis.of.this.community, I think all of us have travelled throughout.the State of California..and I don't know of any other community where in this State or any place in the East where a freeway coming through didn't just take out the old homestead; it took out the whole street and that was it, I think we have to put the pieces back._again, What are you going to do with Walnut Creek Parkway? Are you going to turn that into a commercial street? How-does,that get that traffic down into the commercial areas again? This is the problem. If we are successful in creating a main street in this community, then at those points where the main street and the interchanges come in contact I think there may have to be some ingenuity shown in design features for an interchange, but is this necessarily impossible? I don't know,, Councilman Gillum.- I don't know either,, It seems to me we are adding to the problem by putting local traffic flow mixed in with freeway traffic, Councilman Gleckmane The freeway and the interchanges we are talking about, if you took that same expressway and made it a frontage road, if you would make it • an expressway you would still have to have elevations to contend with as far as gettipg,-on and off, If you took the frontage road as it exists and could take our entire frontage road throughout our whole City and where you have Vincent Avenue where you have Azusa Avenue and where you have Citrus you -would have the bridge -type road over those, or submerged, but not to interfere with your freeway traffic, would you still have a main street through your City? I don't know if it is feasible engineeringwise,, I think it is possible to widen the freeway to four lanes but I think we need some adjustment in the off ramps into the particular main north and south streets in the City which would give us better traffic and I think that is a responsibility both of the City and of the State, -6- Joint Meeting 10/3.1/66 'SAN BERNARDI'NO FREEWAY AGREEMENT - Continued 0 Councilman Snyder-, Page Seven One of the main masons I favor the frontage road instead of Walnut Creek Parkway, although I agreewe may have to do that, too, I: would like to see this done because there is already more right-of- way available along this frontage road to.make.it the east/west street of major design that you wish it to be. You already have more right - of' -way and more commercial__ growth_ along the frontage road right now than you have.along the.other street,, Mayor Krieger-, the San Bernardino Freeway intercity, but intracity,, times a day do you use the except. within the City,, I think it would be interesting to know how many cars are using that.are strictly intracity, that are not All you have to do is ask yourself how many freeway and you are.not going anyplace Councilman Gleckman: Today I would venture that the majority of people that travel the freeway that go on Glendora Avenue and the-61.d'center will take Lark. Ellen off ramp,, People 1.6av-.ing the business area will go down to Lark Ellen and on to the freeway instead of fighting Vincent Avenue,, Motion by Councilman Snyder, seconded by Mayor Krieger, that the staff be directed to make a preliminary study of a main street frontage road conceptwith an elimination of as many interchanges as possible, and providing by design as free an ea,st/west flow on this frontage road as possible,and as free, connect ion =with those remaining interchanges as possible, and submit it to the Council and Planning Commission within four weeks,, Councilman Gleckman-, Before we ask this to be done I would request the City Manager to get in touch with Mr. Hoy and Mr,, Schaffer and find out if we couldn°t sit downn and discuss this matter before we ask our staff to go through some unnecessary preparations,, Councilman Snyder-, ghat I am asking to be brought back is merely to see if it can be done,, This freeway agreement as recommended by the staff is acceptable to me unless something better can be found. I think there is a slight possibility that something better for both the State and the City can be found and. I think if that is possible it should be explored,, That is all I am asking in the motion,, Councilman Gleckman-, Every time we discuss a freeway agreement we go through all the preliminaries and everything else that may be most necessary and yet we never sit down with the people who are going to say to us "You are on the right track" or "You are on the wrong track" • Councilman Gillum-, I agree with Councilman Gleckman,, The reason I cannot vote for this motion is my own personal opinion is you are wrong in trying to put this thing next to the freeway,, I think you are creating another monster,, Councilman Snyder - The reason we have to take up east/west routes at this time is because this freeway agreement as it is now drawn compounds our east/ west problem,, In approving this the Council has to take the responsi- bility of solving that east/west problem,, 0 • Joint Meeting. _10/11/66 S'AN: BERNARDINO FREEWAY AGREEMENT - Continued Page Eight I would .,amend my -motion that the City Manager be authorized to contact the'Division of Highways to see if they are even interested in.this proposal...befor.e.the staff goes ahead with such planso Councilman Gl.eckman.- I will second the amendment, Mayor Krieger; I have a positive recollection of having sat down on the Council with representatives from the State Division of Highways before the original proposal was submitted and we have always welcomed the full exchange between the City and the State on this subject and before this proposal was submitted in February of 1966 there had been a number of conferences with the State,, Their representatives were present on at -least-one occasion when we discussed the matter as well as the representatives from Victor Gruen, I think the State Division of Highways would want to have some idea as to whether such an idea or concept is being strongly considered by the City or whether it is something that is just being brought out of thin air as a possible item of discussion, I think before some members of the Council could seriously commit themselves to such a proposal they might want to see something schematic in form as to what the possibilities are, If we are seriously going to pursue this., we sho.uld.have an idea of where we are going, Action on Councilman Snyder°s amendment to the original motion; Motion carried, (.Ayes -Councilmen Nichols, Snyder9 Gleckman, Noes: Councilman Gillum, Mayor Krieger,) Action on Councilman Snyder°s motion as amended, Motion carried,, (Ayes, Councilmen Snyder9 Gleckman9 Mayor Krieger, Noes- Councilmen Gi.l.l.ums Nichols,) Councilman Snyder- When this is brought back since it is coming back to the Council we should again have a joint meeting with the Planning Commission at that time, Mayor Krieger- The jurisdiction is vested in the Council, I am sure an invitation to the Planning Commission would be in order as far as information is concerned, Mr, Hoy- Your staff will have to draw up something along the lines they think you people want, When you talk about an east/west road through here, that is way beyond what we can incorporate in the agreement so we would be very happy to discuss what you may have in mind here but I think we are going to have to sit back and see what develops here and after we have our conference with you people, 'C'OUNCIL COMMITTEE REPORTS ANNEXATION BOOKLET Councilman Gleckman- connection with Annexation No, 192, meeting, I have some corrections to the annexation booklet to be sent in I -will bring these up at our next -a- • Joint Meeting ..1Dd.31/6.6 'COUNCIL'COMMITTE.E REPORTS a Continued SLAG . Page Nine Councilman Snyder-, ..I am the appointed representative to SCAG and there is a meeting Friday night, There -may -be some_ controv.er.s.ial....items..-coming up, I don't. know what the policy of the Counc..il...i.s..r.egarding my voting down there, I assume....I'. _am._.uninstructed, If there is any opposition to my voting my own conscience down there, I wish you would speak up, COMMISSION ON PRE-EMPTION Councilman Snyder-, Sometime ago we got a communica- tion from the Governor regarding the Commission on Pre®Emption and any recommendations we would like to make on that, I would like the City Attorney to review this and come up with any recommendations he might.have on this, City Managers Mr, Aiassa-, I will refer that to him, Motion by Councilman Snyder, seconded by Councilman Gillum, and carried, that this matter be referred to the City Attorney for any recommendations he may wish to make through the Council to this Commission, (Mayor Krieger abstained; Councilman Gleckman voted "No",) SISTER CITY CHRISTMAS CARD Mayor Krieger-, We have in the Council Office this.Sister City Christmas Card, We have been requested to individually sign this card to go down to Toluca and donate one dollar, CURBSIDE DELIVERY Of'MAIL Mayor Krieger-, We have a ciruclar from the National League of Cities and it contains an extract of the revised policy of the Post Office Department and I would like to have the staff check this out with the Post Master in West Covina, City Manager, Mr, Aiassao EMPLOYEES° INSTALLATION AWARDS Mayor Krieger-, The staff will take care of this, Did you wish some idea from the Council as to attendance at the - Employees' Installation Awards? City Manager, Mr, Aiassa-, Yes, ".. • 0 Joint Meeting 10/31/66 Page Ten EMIPLOYEES°' 'INSTALLATI,ON AWARDS Continued Mayor Krieger,, ORDER OF SONS. -OF ITALY INVI.TATI.ON If you are intending to go, please make it known to the City Manager,, Mayor Krieger,, I have an invitation from the Order of Sons of Italy in America, San Gabriel Lodge, for their annual dinner dance this Saturday and there are two invitations Rindly forwarded to me,, This is the night of the Employees' Dinner.,, Will -the staff please. inform.the Order of Sons of Italy that we will not be..in.att.endance? City Manager, Mr,, Aiassas We will take care of that,, There being ho further business, Motion by.Councilman Snyder, seconded by Councilman Gillum, and carried, that this meeting be adjourned at 9;50 o°clock P,,M,, to Monday, Nqvember 7, 1966 at 7:30 o'clock P,,M,, ATTEST,, CITY CLERK APPROVED iQ--l.� (�iyi �li`2� ?M ' MAYOR -10-