08-01-1966 - Regular Meeting - Minutes•
MINUTES OF THE ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
CITY OF WEST COVINA9 CALIFORNIA
AUGUST 1, 1966
The adjourned regular meeting of the City Council was called to order
by.Mayor Krieger at 7:30 o'clock P9M, in the West Covina City Hallo
Councilman Gillum led the Pledge of Allegiance,
ROLL CALL
Presents Mayor Krieger, Councilmen Gillum, Snyder (from
7:50 P,M,), Gleckman
Others-Presenta Mr, George Aiassa9 City Manager
Mr, Robert Flotten, City Clerk 6 Admin, Assistant
Mr, Herman R. Fast, Public Services Director
Mr, Harold Joseph, Planning Director
Motion by Councilman Gleckman, seconded by Councilman Gillum, and
carried, for the Council to stand in recess for`the purpose of holding
a joint study meeting with the Executive Board of the Chamber of
Commerce and the Planning Commission, and representatives of.the
Real Estate Research Corporation,
• ----------------
REAL ESTATE RESEARCH CORPORATION COMMUNITY
ANALYSIS STUDY ® JOINT MEETING 1.
PRESENT
City Council: Mayor Krieger, Councilmen Gillum, Snyder
(from.7:50 P,M,)- Gleckman
Planning Commission: Chairman McCann, Commissioners Mayfield,
Mottinger, Adams, Jackson
Chamber of Commerce: 'President Frank Carr, Members Byron
Clayton, Dori George9 Howard'Erickson, Bernard Bregman9
Jim P,.Halderm�n Chris Tambe, Chamber Manager
Real :Estate Research Corporation-, Edward T, Le -
Albert D, Keisker
City Staff: Mr, George Aiassa, Mr, Robert Flotten, Mr, Herman.
R, Fast, Mr, Harold Joseph, Mr. Jack Stanley
Mayor.Kre.er: The Council now being in recess, gentlemen,
we,have as our first matter of interest
this evening the repo that has been received jointly by the City and
the Chamber e i it egd -' conomic, Base Analysis, West Covina, California",
prepared for the �`,ai�d:_Chamber,.dated July, 19669 prepared and
submitted by the Rera1 Estate Research Corporation,
I think it might be appropriate._ if
the gentlemen from Real Estate Research Corporation would give any
remarks they would like_A&, ma, e. at this time,
-1-
JOINT MEETING ® 8/1/66 Page Two
Mr, Edward T, Leutheusero Thank you very much, We don't have
any particular remarks to make except
we are particularly pleased to be here, This is an important occasion
as far as we are concerned because we have recently completed what we
'consider to be a significant study for the City of West Covina,
Personally, I am particularly pleased
�to be here this evening, I live in this area; I shop West Covina stores;
My family shops West Covina stores, This is our community, too,
Unfortunately, Mr, Richard Webb who
was the actual project manager for this study is,on vacation on the
east coast right now and -so he couldn't be here this evening,
(Mr, Don George ent'� ed the chambers,)
Mr, Edward T, Leud`usere (Gave summary of this matter,)
(Mr, Howard Erickson entered the chambers,)
(Councilman Snyder entered the chambers at 7m50 P,M,)
Mayor Krieger- I am sure those gentlemen who have read
the book will want to get into some
in-depth questions, This is a joint meeting, The only thing;.L ask
• is that we try to maintain some sequence of order,
Councilman Snyder, Your projections, for example, on office
space and retail trade, recreational
centers, the need in 1970, 215,000 in office,space, is this projection
based on West Covina's population alone or is the fact that we are a
regional center taken into account here?
Mr, Edward T, Leutheusero It is based on the area population,
For certain portions of our analysis we
had to stay within the City limits of West Covina, For example, in
projecting what might happen exactly within a various business complex,
But, when we studied the market for department stores, we considered
not only the East San Gabriel Valley but we also considered what is
happening over the hill in Whittier; the Pomona Valley area; we
considered the market for apartments and again we considered a broader
area,
Councilman Snyder' Particularly in relation to office use
it seems to me the m4in part of your
report has been pertaining to retail trade and apartments and motels
and the normal office use of a City of this size, But as .a headquarter
city, did your data give you any reason for or any thought.to our
attracting, for instance, corporation head offices, insurance companies,
brokerages, or other office type uses which are related to the people
of the San Gabriel Valley but which are now quartered in Los Angeles?
• Is there any place where we are missing the boat in not attracting
`centralizing office type uses in West Covina?
Mr, Edward T, Leutheusero There is one more important point here,
and that is we have not projected the
demand for the potential in West Covina for national firms, We did,
however, consider the market for those people who are operating on a
regional basis here or an areawide basis serving this part of the
County, but who.would be occupying a small part of a larger building,
-2-
JOINT MEETING m 8/1/66 Page Three
• Mr. Albert D. Keisker-, One of the problems we get in analyzing
this demand and trying to do so in terms
of the city°s best long-term interest is to be a little hard-nosed about
the whole thing. We know quite well that there are four million square
feet of office space currently coming on the market in downtown Los
Angeles and that this is geared toward a wide range of users who are
national firms and firms serving the western United States. There has
been a very definite reversal of trend in the last three years in terms
of downtown Los Angeles asserting itself for very logical reasons --
as a necessary point of location for these types of operations. There
also has been a firming up of the practical need for insurance companies,
for example, to group together within pretty close proximinty to one
another for simply reasons of operating efficiency; the clustering
together of firms within a given type of operation. Oil companies are
another example. When we do a study of this type, we automatically take
into account the entire background of the market for the particular kind
of use which we are analyzing and we try to give as useful an answer
but as honest an answer as possible. One of the things I think will
follow rather than precede West Covina's potential as a high fashion
shopping center will be the attraction of a higher volume of larger
office users basically serving a broader area of service.
Councilman Snyder-, You are not necessarily, saying that
we shouldn't compete in this field_
but at least you are -not recommending it at this time.
• Mr. Albert D. Keisker-, Certainly this is something that you
should compete in, but you shouldn't
be disappointed if for very good reasons some other people take some of
the market away from you. This is not a potential we can honestly
recommend as great untapped potentials for you at the present time.
Councilman Snyder-, Later when we go into this in depth
I have more to say on this. But in
regard to the high rise apartments, you indicated your information.
indicates there is no great demand or advisability for these right now.
However, I didn't see in the report or hear you mention high rent or
high quality apartments for the area- whether or not there is a need.
Mr. Albert D. Keiskers One of the most important characteristics
that underlie the whole study is this:
The rather remarkable rise of income that is characteristic of your
trading area. There is a definite trend in terms of a resident, a
patron, consumer, who has a continually rising level of income.
The consequence of this is going to be a chance to develop apartment
complexes that have rather outstanding characteristics that will
represent a longer term and a finer -addition to the physical environment
of the City.
Councilman Snyder-, You have indicated that the present
• potential freeway pattern is
advantageous to the City in trying to obtain more higher end retail
stores but you further indicate that probably one of the stumbling
blocks is our own local street pattern and bottlenecks, the West
Covina Plaza area in particular. Do you think this is a large enough
factor to prevent our obtaining any more higher end department stores?
Mr. Albert D. Keisker-, No. I think you have to solve the
problem well. The freeway pattern is
a tremendously important factor to the location of the concentrated
high fashion stores.
m3®
•
•
•
JOINT MEETING m 8/l/66 Page Four
Councilman Snyder: It is my understanding that the data
bank was part of this study,, Do we
have an informative meeting on what is in the data bank and how it is
to be used?
Mr, Chris Tambe: The data bank project has been completed,
I received the final report Thursday of
last week and I deliberately did not transmit that to you because I
didn.°t want to cloud the issue, They are separate and distinct projects,
Councilman Gillum: In the report here you refer to major
large type of department stores such as
Bullock's and Robinson's. I got the indication you felt we had the
sufficient area within what we refer to as our Central Business District
as outlined on this map you were holding up that we could put one or
two of these large type facilities in this general area and still be
able to service them with adequate parking, traffic with the existing
streets, or did I misunderstand?
Mr,, Edward T,, Leutheuser: That understanding is correct. An
effort should be made to assemble the
properties so that when you start building you are not hamstrung by
disadvantageous property lines. Getting this into execution is going
to require some agility,
Councilman Gillum:
We have made some steps in that direction,
(Mr,, Jim P,, Halderman and Mr,, Bernard Bregman entered the chambers,)
Mr,, Albert D,, Keisker: You are in a much different position
than the normal established downtown core
in that you have large units of vacant land, Your potential is in terms
of creating a very important high fashion shopping complex with a fairly
broad range of merchandise appeal, If this thing is going to go
well and it is going to attract the major tenants, there are certain
physical locational factors that pretty much are given, If you can
attract three large retailing units, they will want to group themselves
in such a fashion as to best have a complimentary flow of patronage
between them, You do not have a simple design problem in making the
thing work. Our intent was to provide some of the basic foundation
and.from this with your City staff and perhaps other sources of
talent, take this and examine possibilities in terms of physical factors
involved and see out of several alternatives which one is the best.
You have to get the shoppers from the south to you without having
to wind through City streets,
Mr,, Edward. T. Leutheuser:
future travel times and upon
travel times, This was part
consideration as to what the
would mean,
Actually, our.projections were made
on the basis of present and anticipated
the population residingwithin certain
of it, It was carefully taken into
opening up of Azusa Avenue, for example,
Mr, Albert D, Keisker: We think that you have the opportunity
to build the better mousetrap and
where they are more or less on the dividing line, it will be convenient
enough to come here to have a much broader range of merchandising
potential,
Councilman Gillum: It gets back to the point of what we do
in our central business district will
determine which way it goes,
-4-
JOINT MEETING 8/l/66
Page Five
Mro Albert Do Keiskero
Yes, Presently for the most part you
are serving a broad regional market of
the San Gabriel Valley. This
will still be the case, You will not
get very many people from Pasadena,
but you have the possibility of
really dominating this large
eastern San Gabriel Valley market with
a highfashion shopping centero
You have the freeway factor in your
favors You are as centrally
located as anybody, You have all these
things going for youo
Councilman Gillum;
On the commercial recreation, hotel,
motel facilities, the legend doesn't
seem to jive up with the location,
That is on page 52o The legend
is the problem,
Mr, Edward T, Leutheusera
We spend a lot of money over the course
of a year to avoid situations like this
but still slip-ups happen,
Councilman Snyder:
It wouldn't be difficult to change that
page although it really has no affect
on your report,
Commissioner Jackson:
I would be interested to hear your pro-
jection on what happens in 1970 if we
don't take these steps you recommend,
•
Mr, Edward T, Leutheuser:
If my recollection is correct, and if
Mr, Webb were here, he could tell you
off the tip of his tongue, I
think that if nothing were done and
these factors outside of West
Covina went ahead, there was a drop of
about 25% in the primary shops,
Mr, Albert D, Keiskero That is on Page 46, Perhaps more
important than that is this drop in sales
would mirror the more important fact that some competitive location,
the facility with the higher end department stores that was
going to be for the next decade, then the high fashion center had
gone to someone else,
Commissioner Jackson: Where do you see this developing?
Mr, Albert D, Keiskero Actually it's a pretty wide open thing,
Let me put it this way: Actually, the
circumstances are anywhere but firmed up�at the present time, The
market is now becoming highly attractive,to these higher end users, We
are aware of the fact that several stores are now beginning to
seriously consider expanding, No firm decisions have been made, It
is going to be how various cities or various groups of people interested
in attracting them try to react to this potential,
Commissioner Jackson: Apparently there is some potential
• around the Hacienda Heights area, as
I see it, with direct access to the Pomona Freeway,
Mr, Albert. D, Keiskero That is a possibility and there is
a possibility the other way, You
can certainly go to a number of locations where large enough tracts of
land are available, If you have key freeway access and two or three
stores in a regional shopping center, as long as the person can get there
easily by automobile via the freeway, it doesn't necessarily have to be
right in the middle of where existing activity has previously occurred.
A major shopping center development can, in a sense, bring its own market,
m5®
JOINT MEETING - 8/l/66 Page Six
Mr,, Don Georges Getting back to the idea of the higher
end stores and the commercial develop-
ments that we have here and the commercial developments in the Whittier
and the competition of the dollar of the income that lies between the
two of us,9 with the opening of the freeway would it be easier to get
into Whittier? Their retail market is almost identical to what we have
here now Have you done anything as to looking into that area whether
it would be feasible for them to obtain this higher end stores you are
referring to? Secondly, with the opening of Azusa through.there, it
will expedite the area from that area into our area,, What would you
feel would be the most feasible route for those people to get into the
central business area if that is developed with the better stores?
Mr,, Albert D, Keisker- The answer is yes and no. We have not
examined the Whittier market in the
same context,, We were priviliged to do a very extensive study for the
city about four years ago so we are quite familiar with their whole
market, The service area in Whittier falls off rather rapidly when you
go out of the regional contacts with terms of shading off in a lower
income market, They have some disadvantages in terms of being less
attractive, I can't cite statistics but I would be willing to
guess that they are not experiencing in terms of a trading area as
broad as yours, as sharp a rise in percentage of families with $10,000
or more annual income, Whittier market tends to be linear and it has
szffered. You will always have a competitive situation along the
Hacienda Heights area, but I think you can penetrate that market with a
high degree of success,
Mr, Edward T,, Leutheuser; With the high end stores we are talking
about, other things being equal, you
have to have a larger concentration resident purchasing population to
trade there,, If you have a certain type store you can be off center
and probably do all right but if you are going to be catering to the
upper end market, you have to have sufficient people coming in,
satisfying a sufficiently broad trading area to make it worthwhile for
tie merchant,, You can expect this Montclair Center to be a very
significant one. There is talk of a center in the San Dimas area,
If you look at the master plans for undeveloped properties to the
south, you will see that there are retail sites designated, Those are
a long ways away timewise and this potential we are talking about is
practically immediate, It would take probably two or three years to
put a deal together and to get the merchants in here even if you
started tomorrow, If you are talking about developing a big shopping
center on Phillips Ranch East, you are talking about a few years hence,,
Chairman McCann: I would like to go back to this idea
of development in the main shopping
center area, Have you had an opportunity to investigate the owner-
ship to see what sort of combination we have there?
Mr, Edward T,, Leutheuser- I can't honestly answer that question,
• I think Mr, Webb would be the most
logical one to answer that unless Mr, Joseph would want to comment
on it,
Mr, Joseph- Mr, Webb has this ownership information
in his file,
RM
JOINT MEETING - 8/1/66 Page Seven
Mr, Albert Do Keiskere The information is in the file,, To
• analyze it in terms of really knowing
much beyond what is a matter of record would be something beyond where
we have gone,
Commissioner Mottingero We have been talking about the
possibility of getting a large develop-
ment in this area, I would like to inquire of these gentlemen just
what the practical approach is mm solicitation and using this tool?
How soonis this done? What is the direct wav it can be used?
Mro Edward To Leutheusere I am not familiar enough with some of
the negotiations that may have gone
on in the past in terms of trying to put developments of major scope
together in West Covina, I know Mr. Webb is, However, the normal
approach is to have people of responsibility actively solicit the
attention of the major retailers and be able to go to them and
say that you have the potential in your community for this type of
operation and you also feel you have the property available so that
they can come into your community and they are not voing to have to
break the bank in order to get the property and they" are certainly not
going to run into a lot of opposition from the Planning Commission
if their response makes any sense at all, In other words, "We want
you, We need you, We think you need us, We would like to talk about
it and work out some satisfactory solution,B°
• Commissioner Mottingero You propose that we, as a City, take
this report in hand and actually make
a contact with the firms that might be potentials?
Mr, Albert D, Keiskero Yes, I think beforehand is going to
be important to win your community
at least to begin with, to come to grips with how you are going to
approach certain problems, I think you are going to have to have
pretty definite preliminary ideals, at least about how you are going
to provide traffic circulation, about what kind of requirement you
are going to think appropriate to use the standards and regulations on
the development, You are going to want to consider how you want to
approach the parking problem, whether the parking is to be only the
responsibility of the developer or the private tenant or whether
some other alternative or something which makes good sense, I think
you need to use your own staff and perhaps augment their counsel with
the advice of others in terms of thinking long enough and in enough
detail about these things to have a knowledgeable response when they
show interest and begin asking questions, I, think it would be ideal
if this could be sort of a joint venture between the Chamber and the
City and you could very possibly enlist some of the present owners and
proprietors of the property, You could set up some kind of an
organization or use the existing one,
Mr, Edward T, Leutheusere There has to be a unified effort, I
• would suggest as a start that a committee
be formed or a smaller working group be made available -and we would
be happy to sit in for a couple of meetings to go over some of the
details as to how this can be worked out,
Mayor. Krieger; They have been in existence for three
months and.that program started in May,
-7-
JOINT MEETING m 8/1/66 Page Eight
Mr. Edward To Leutheusero We would be interested in helping you to
0 implement some of these recommendations
and to give you suggestions as to just how to proceed from here. I
think that it can be best handled in a small working session.
Councilman Gleckmano From all the summations and conversation
here tonight I get the number one
problem which we are all aware of but that you so aptly point out is
access because primarily if given the access9 why this is the number
one attracting element to any given area as well as any deterrent to
any given area. The area this report was dealing with such as with the
West Covina Plaza, relief of access alone, immediate relief of access
alone would more than establish the figures that you fellows have
projected as to the type of business that has been done in the past.
I begin to wonder sometimes when we talk about access, are we talking
about access to a given area or access throughout your whole city?
When you talk about volume dollars,, are you talking about volume dollars
per unit sale or volume dollars over all? When you get into a high
trading area such as West Covina where the dollar per unit is much
higher as far as the unit sale is concerned, you take that against
square footage and naturally you could be well over the average square
footage but lose money in every one of your operations and this is one
of the factors you haven't brought out in your report. We may have
the.best operators in the world with the best operations in the world
with the least amount of access, still have the total volume and all
doing poorly. I think that this is one of the points you missed in
this report. The information in this report that is computed is great
as far as I am.concerned for the person who wants to look at statistics.
As far as I am concerned, you are only relating the problems that we
were very well aware of prior to this report with no conclusions or
no suggestions. When I say 14no", I don't mean the end result; I mean
without the proper conclusions or the proper suggestions that would
give us some idea of where to start.
We know, for example, that our problem
is access. We have discussed many times in Council level the problem
is that we have used the freeway as our main street. We know we have
poor internal 'travel streets. We know we are losing the shopper
because of this. Nowhere in this report do I see a suggestion as to
where to start, what would be the best way to take on this particular
project. To bring other majors into this area, there are other factors
involved that are not given in this report. You talk about land values.
Well, first of all the majority of majors that are looking for land today
are not looking to pay the price of land in the central business
district regardless of what you would give them as far as access is
concerned. If I am wrong, they would have been here years ago and
created the access. That's the best way I can say it.
How do we as a City and the Chamber
And the Planning Commission get together in order to make this land
available to these majors so that both sides of the fence work out
an economic base in order to bring them here even if we did give them
this access? The minute we allow this access into our area, the
available land doubles in price and the major can't afford to pay for
it anyway and they are going to go,elsewhere and build their own
shopping centers, which is what they have done in the last five years.
We talk about types of merchandizing. There is no doubt about it that
West Covina has in the past because of the amount of earnings
surrounding the community and within the community had higher type
quality merchandise and, in fact, in my opinion, not enough in order
even to attract the bulk amount of consumer business there is in our
own City let alone the surrounding cities.
E
JOINT MEETING 8/1/66
Page Nine
• We talk about parking, The only way
we could even discuss parking would be up or down and not on a horizontal
basis because we don't even have the land available, vacant land, to
bring in the majors, let alone give them the type of parking we are talking
about in order to create once we get them here a traffic jam within
the parking areas,
I didn't see anything in the report
about communication or advertising as to if you brought these majors
in does this area have the proper communication with the citizens
surrounding it from an advertising standDoa_nt or if they did bring
these majors in, would there be a media that is not presently being
used in our community to bring these people in?
Planning is great', but where do we
start? If we talk about this report and we take the statistics, what
happens if we don't do this? Well, I know what happens and I am sure
you understand what happens if we don't, but the idea is where do we
start? Once we start, who is going to sacrifice, because any area in
which you want to go forward', anv progress you want to take, you
are going to be criticized by a certain element of the present population
within your city such as access streets, et cetera, Some homes are
going to have to go, None of this is pointed out in this report,
You talk about the Huntington Beach
Freeway, We don't know the location, According to this report, one
of the best ways of increasing our commercial areas is for us to fight
for the Huntington Beach Freeway to come through the middle of our
City and give us a traffic area so that we can attract people to
our City, As far as I'm concerned, that freeway goes two ways and
as .far as I am concerned any area in the City of West Covina where
they would build. the Huntington Beach Freeway, there is not land or
accessible off ramps, on ramps, or intermediate streets, and how
could you plan to build internal traffic when you have no idea where
the freeway is going?
As far as I am concerned, aside from
the blue ribbon committee that we have talked about in this City for
-the last two years, just recently been initiated, the committee
established is more'to solve some of the problems in our City rather
than attract people to our City, I feel the blue ribbon committee
is after you have got these other things outlined as to where you are
going to put it', how you are going to get there, what areas are we
going to attract to, then you give ammunition to your committee to
bring people to the City, I, myself, already know statistics in the
report, facts and figures, the main problems that we have within
our community are not only not suggested as far as being solved in
this report but I think that we could go in fifty different directions
in any one of these chapters and come up with something -we don't have
now that would better our community,
Mr, Frank Carr: As I understand this, we have a contract
where Real Estate Research Corporation
will meet with us a specified number of times, I believe Councilman
Gleckman, that this is where a lot of this what you are asking for is
going to be developed,
Mr, Edward T, Leutheusero That is correct. As a matter of fact,
at one point in the draft of this
report we had actually gotten into some of the implementation phases
and we felt that the report would have a greater benefit to the
MM
JOINT MEETING 8/l/66
community if these data were not in
• should be handled in open discussion
shop sessions,,
Page Ten
the report as it is but rather they
with community leaders and work
Mayor Krieger: Perhaps one of the problems then was
in the agreement itself,, Councilman
Gleckman, and perhaps some of the rest of us were interpreting
Article 39 "Presentation and Finding" so as to anticipate the
presentation of recommendations and an action program within the report,,
Maybe that is where we failed to realize that there is further work
in the terms of the presentation of the action program,,
Mr,, Albert D,, Keisker: I think really that you realize you have
a difficult problem ahead in trying to
figure out how to move from here effectively to improve your position,,
It becomes a game of chess where you have to be very careful about how
you develop your strategy and how you make one move and then
another move,, Your actions are not being taken within a vacuum and I
think it would be well for you to leave yourselves room for developing
a flexible program that you know better than some of your competition
knows,,
Getting back to a couple of points
the Councilman made, I think if you do not have an idea about how
you are going to solve your access problems in terms of each of the
freeway possible routings, the alternates, this is something you
should have,, The State Highway people mm it takes them going to each
common ground when you try to develop this. You certainly should know
what types of traffic pattern alternatives can be developed given the
preliminary alternative alignments,, It is my understanding there has
been quite a bit of work in shop done on this. I don't think that
our report would have properly included any definitive recommendations
as to exactly what should happen on this because this is still in the
process of a certain degree of flux,,
Councilman Snyder: I want to say that I certainly never got
any inference or expected that this
study would come back with definitive answers,, In effect, it is an
economic base analysis. What it does comeback with is a tool that
we can use to solve some of these problems although we knew about
them,, We never had it, in effect, certified. by a professional study,,
We knew these problems existed but we never had it certified,, So when
we go, for example, to the Highway Department to upgrade our freeway
interchanges, we have a further weight of this study to help us,,
When we go to retail stores, we have the further weight of this
study to help us,, I think that was the purpose of that report,,
Mayor Krieger: I only call your attention to the specific
terms of the agreement which says to
augment the market oriented analyses identified above contract will
provide specific recommendations for an action program to implement
the findings and conclusions set forth in the technical report document,,
The program would contain recommended priorities and specific steps
which should be taken by governmental agencies and private sector of
the economy to maximize the potentials of the City,, I believe that
is that we are all moving in the same direction,,
On Page 73, the paragraph in the middle,
the last sentence, you indicate there does exist a real background of
need and potential for the establishment of a community cultural center
for meetings, art exhibits, lectures, and social activities,, In the
preparation of this report, do either of you know whether the Stanford
Research Institute was utilized, their report?
m10®
JOINT MEETING m 8/l/66
Page Eleven
. Mr, Edward T. Leutheusero I would be very much surprised if it ,
were note When we make an analysis of
this type we try to get ahold of any pertinent research done in the past
and where it is germaine to the study, we will substantiate or make our
own analysis;to come to our own conclusions,, I don't know the
findings of the Stanford Report and all I can say is I would be very
much surprised if it were not used
Mayor Krieger,, Looking at the bibliography of source
materials, it was not my recollection
that it came within the collateral research of the recorded experience
or the library data. This does bear on the question that is under
discussion in this phase of the report and I would be quite interested
in seeing some reconciliation, not that there is a complete incon-
sistency, but some reconciliation of the two reports,, I believe that
material should be made available in case it hasn't already been made
available,,
Mr,, Edward T,, Leutheusero I think this would fit in very nicely
with the meetings we are anticipating
with the working group in working out, in doing some of the finalizing
of our actual program before we put it into the report, into print.
Mayor Krieger: I gather there isn't such a thing, as a
status quo in a city any more than it is
• in any other type of vital organism,,
Mr,, Edward T, Leutheusero That is correct,
Commissioner Mayfield: Along the point Mr. Gleckman explored
earlier about this retail gross per square
foot being $73 and that it was above average, in the high end or high
fashion type of investment wouldn't that have to be considerably more
than that to make it feasible as far as that type of ,facility is
concerned by itself?
Mr,, Albert D, Keisker: Really you are not necessarily talking
about an operation that differs, that
much in terms of necessarily of unit so-called factor of unit
productivity per square foot,, You are talking about broadening your
type of appeal in the merchandise mind and appealing toward a market
with different tastes and certainly more money to spend, with more
money to invest,
Commissioner Mayfield: Is there a better index than this
for making a comparison?
Mr,, Albert D,, Keisker,, This is an indication to us of the
fact that there is the potential for
additions to the supply,, The supply and demand ratio is such that
the market is underscored,, More competition could enter, The
inventory could be larger and still support standard operations,
Commissioner Mayfield: As I understand it, you look at it as a
whole and not as a single entity,
Mr,, Albert D. Keisker: Right,
JOINT MEETING 8/1/66 Page Twelve
Commissioner Mayfield-, In other words, from what you are saying
you could expand the total entity and
give the gross down to 60 and it would still be satisfactory?
Mr. Edward T. Leutheuser-, Providing the economic unit were large
enough and the other overhead. There
is another factor to take into account here. I think Mr. Gleckman
hit on it and that is that there is a tremendous amount of lossage now
to other communities. Downtown Los Angeles, Pasadena, Whittier, Pomona,
and other places, simply because the merchandise is not being, offered.
If the merchadise being offered here today, you make it tough on the
housewife or her husband. If you look at the various charts in the
report, you will see that you are getting your real strong pulses
east and west along the freeway. This is natural because it is easier
for people to get in here off the freeway, but as you move north and
south, your ciruclation problems are compounded and access problems
are compounded.
This growth we are talking about, this
growth in retail potential is not so much a matter of increased
population as it is keeping the dollars from going outside.
Councilman Snyder-, On Page 22 there may be a typographical
error. The alternative is I don't
understand it. You say in 1970 the total families in the West
• Covina area is 209466 and you estimate Covina as 2099769 or more than
West Covina. Why would this be?
Mr. Edward T. Leutheusers Those are not political limits. Those
are arbitrary statistical areas. We
should have referred to these as area iii and xi and so on and this
is not meant to infer that Covina is going to go ahead of West Covina.
I.t.is the statistical areas we are talking about.
Mr. Frank Care-, You are stressing a number of things-,
one is that this is better than
average income group to begin with here and you might be interested in
knowing the Junior Chamber of Commerce recently ran,a survey and they
came out with this and my own organization took a survey on my bank
which came for this area and it came,out exactly the same. It is a
higher level income and I presume this is one reason why we should go
to the higher end stores.
Mr. Edward. T. Leutheuser: That is correct.
Councilman Snyder-, Has any study been done on just income
alone for families that m® but it
doesn't mean everything by itself. For instande, it is true that
West Covina has many families making $10,000 or more a year, but they
are also young; they have a lot of children; they are paying big house
• payments to the bank and other things. Has there been any study done
on excess spendable income or is such a study possible? It seems to
me there is a difference between spendable income and straight listing
of income.
Mr. Edward T. Leutheuser-, This is reflected in our calculations
because in the first place we are not
talking about population per capita. We are talking about population
per consumer spending unit or per family, and therefore you have fewer
families in West Covina per 509000 population than you would:in other
portions of Los Angeles County or thoughout the United States. The
-12-
JOINT MEETING m 8/l/66 Page Thirteen
family size I think we are working with is 3o83a For Los Angeles
County it is about 2,99, There is a tremendous difference there and
this is reflected in our calculations of retail potential, Beyond
fiat, it is a rather involved complex set of charts in which we draw
-these factors for various income levels of family size and then we adjust
these on occasion, too, because of the character of the area, It has
been pretty well taken into account,
Mayor Krieger: Do we have more current statistical
information that appears on Page 18 which
las to do with the percentage of people living in West Covina driving to
Cork? You refer to a 158 survey which is quite ancient. Has this been up-
chted at all to your information?
Mr, Edward T, Leutheuser: Well, I know of one other possibility that
may have some bearing on that and that
may be some statistics that LARTS has developed. I would be surprised
if these had not been taken into consideration, I think if you go down
to the middle of that paragraph that it is quite significant that the
San Bernardino traffic increased nearly 30o between 1962 and 1964 in the
West Covina area, I make it a daily habit to go into Los Angeles
and my guess would be that their figures are low,
Mr, Chris Tambe: The survey noted here as 1958 is quite a
bit behind us. The trend still is
pretty much valid, is it not?
Mr, Edward T, Leutheuser:
Yes, West Covina is still a
bedroom
community and
we are going to
see it
more and more so with the
increased freeway
network that is
coming
about,
Councilman Snyder:
But a bedroom
community does
not imply
that it cant
be a shopping center,
It only means
they live here,
Mr, Edward T, Leutheuser:
Correct, We are not talking
about
a huge concentration of factories
and
offices. But certainly the
retailing life of
West Covina is
very
essential to thl e well being
of the City, This
is as much of
an industry
to West Covina as hotels are
to Hawaii or the
Douglas Plant
is to
Santa Monica,
Councilman Gillum: In this report you make reference to
merchandising stores, things of this
type. Was any consideration given to the possibility of attracting or
the City supporting such as the Chevrolet, Ford, medium -low priced
agencies? We have now, I would think, what you would consider the
higher type of this business, the Cadillac, Oldsmobile, Chrysler within
our City limits,
• Mr, Edward T, Leutheuser: Not really, There are two reasons for
this, First of all, the locational
d:cision on a move of that type is pretty much beyond your control and
ours, This is up to General Motors or the Ford Motor Company, It is
a matter of strategy as far as they are concerned as to what kind of
penetration they will get in a given area, Now, as long as
Clippinger does a bang-up job, Davis does a good job, and somebody
else does well to the south and they are getting the volume out and
handling the customers right., they are going to probably think twice
before they split off a piece of that market and give it to somebody
-13-
JOINT MEETING 8/l/66 Page Fourteen
in. West Covina,, If something should happen to ClippingerBs operation,
• a change of ownership or something of that type, then there would be a
chance of it coming here because it is perhaps more centrally located,
but we don't have any serious reason to believe that this is really
an important factor except you ought to try to encourage any additional
®mmercial activity that you can get in this City and get it placed in
the place that it is going to be compatible with the surrounding land,,
0
•
Councilman Gleckman: Along that same thinking, the success
of the Country Club Shopping Center in
the City, which is at Citrus and the Freewav, has been tremendous
growth, tremendous success, and probably doing as well, if not better,
than any of the other areas within the City, and again due to access-
ibility,, In other words, we have five streets maybe within our City
that control the traffic of our City,, Wherever there has been commercial
on those corners, it has been fantastic,, The point that I make is that
we have streets within our Citv that tend to give the consumer an
easier way to get there,, Now, if the existing commercial areas were
not as difficult as they are to get to that never would have gotten off
the ground,, The reason for their success is either that their access
is good or the access you have in the other locations is bad,,
Mayor Krieger-. If you were sitting on this side of the
table and you were handed this report
knowing what you do about the report and what is contained in the
report, what your assignment was and what follow-up has to be in terms
of an action program, what would you do to get maximum value out of your
r eport?
Mr,, Edward. T,, Leutheuser-. I think I would start out by involving
the City administration and staff and
in the administration I am talking about perhaps having representation
from the Council and representation from the community, probably
through the Chamber of Commerce, and have a small committee task force
work on this in terms of, helping to meet with the consultant, to decide
on direction,, We fully intend to provide you with a set of recommenda-
tions listed in the order of priority in terms of carrying out some
of these things,, It is not going to happen by itself,, This is nothing
lit a working tool and then you have to address yourselves to the most
important problems and work your way down the list,, It is quite
possible that some of, the best solutions may not be popular solutions,,
And it is a matter of the Council and others in the community to decide
just how you want to do this,,
Mayor Krieger-. Well, I am sure I speak for the Chamber
delegation and the Planning Commission
as well as the Council in expressing our appreciation for your
attendance here tonight and certainly for your frankness,, I believe
I. can safely state for the comprehensiveness of the report the next.
step is the important one and that is what we do with the information
we have with you,, Thank you once again for coming,,
Mr,, Edward T,, Leutheuser° Thank you for letting us come,, Again
I want to express my sincere appreciation
to Mr. Aiassa°s office, Hal: Joseph and Chris Tambe and his group. We
are working continually with communities from Venezuela to Alaska and
from the east to west cost, and we have never had better cooperation
than we have had on this current assignment,, I appreciate it,,
®14®
JOINT MEETING m 8/l/66 Page Fifteen
• CHAMBER OF COMMERCE 1966-67 CONTRACT
PRESENT
City Council: Mayor Krieger, Councilmen Gillum, Snyder, Gleckman
Chamber of Commerce- President Frank Carr, Members Byron
Clayton, Don George, Howard Erickson, Bernard Bregman,
Jim Pa Halderman ® Chris Tambe, Chamber Manager
City Staff- Mr, George Aiassa, Mr. Robert Flotten, Mr. Herman
R. Fast
Mayor. Krieger- The Council is still in recess for the
purpose of discussing the matter
presently.before us, The Council in June, the same time as the
Executive Board of the Chamber and the Board of Directors of the
Chamber, considered the budget for the City and you.were formulating
the budget for the Chamber, Two Councilmen, as has been the past custom
for the last three years, were delegated to meet with representatives
of the.Chamber for the purpose of reviewing the budgetary requests of
the Chamber for the ensuing fiscal year and reported back to the
Councilon the budget request and with their recommendations and
observations and conclusions, During the course of the Council dis-
cussion on the City budget and as an integral part thereof, the budget
request of the Chamber of Commerce, certain observations were made
which have been documented in the Minutes of the Council which have
been made available and I understand read by the majority, if not all,
of the members of the Executive Board of the Chamber as well as many
members of the Board of Directors, and the context of the Council dis®
cession with respect to this subject matter extended beyond the mere
matter of a budgetary appropriation, The final action of the Council
was in regard to abandoning the previous foremat of two separate can -
.tracts, a standard services contract and the special services
contract, each with their own price tag, and recommending to the staff
and to the City Attorney that there be brought back to the Council
one standard services agreement which would incorporate the budgetary
provision adopted by the Council and would recite the performance
characteristics of the contract from the standpoint of the Chamber of
Commerce, When the proposed form of standard services agreement was
returned to the Council and there were comments on the Council that
this agreement did nothing else but extract certain verbage from the
headquarter city agreement or the special services agreement and
incorporate it in the standard services agreement and that certain
Councilmen, and I include myself in this particular catagory, were
not satisfied that this represented a full understanding as to the
prospective situation between the City of. West Covina and the
Chamber of Commerce with the interest on prospective rather than .
retroactive,
• If I am speaking correctly, and I think
I am in regard to appropriation, there was not serious dissent on
the Council in terms of votes as to the allocation.as requested by the
Chamber and as favorably reported back to the Council by our two
representatives to the Chamber, But, there was at least a sense of
consensus with regard to the need to frankly discuss the role and
function of the Chamber and the services to be performed, rendered by
the Chamber under the standard services agreement that would be
drafted and executed and in order to do this constructively and not
unilaterally, it was felt that an invitation to the Executive Board
m15m
JOINT MEETING m 8/1/66
Page Sixteen
• of the Chamber of Commerce was in order, which we are glad to see
was accepted so that we can sit down as we are sitting down this
evening for the purpose of discussing frankly the role of the Chamber
in the City and the cooperation between the City and the Chamber with
regard to matters of mutual interest and objectives. Does this set
the,climate generally as far as the Council is concerned? I think it does.
Mr. Frank Carr: Your discussion is correct with your
. understanding that this was the reason
for meeting. We will stop at that and I.am sure we will get into other
1hings as we go along.
Councilman Snyder: It would be appropriate, we have a
proposed contract here that lists
Number 1A, B9 C9 D. I don't know if the Chamber is prepared, but
from- the budgetary standpoint could you say what, in effect, each one
of these items of this report cost you?
Mr. Chris Tambe:
We haven't seen those contracts.
Mr. Frank Carr: I have not seen this document.
Mr. Chris Tambe: I asked for copies of this today.
Mayor Krieger: This draft of the proposed agreement
what circulation did this have? between the Chamber and the City,
Mr. Aiassa: The draft was on behalf of the City
Attorney and it was circulated to the
Council only. (Copies of said contract were given to the members of
the Chamber of Commerce.)
Councilman Snyder:
Paragraph 1 details the general services
under each item.
Mayor Krieger: I believe the question posed goes back
a little to the discussion held by the
Council as to exactly what in dollar services the participation of the
City is funding. We noticed in your 163 budget a percentage participation
of the City in certain projects such as office for center, publication,
specific promotion and specific events, but we are really at a loss
under our existing foremat to determine exactly in what manner the
City°s participation is allocated, if there is a specific allocation
within the Chamber°s activities.
Mr. Chris Tambe: I have copies of that breakdown you
refer to for 163 and 964. With your
permission, I will distribute them around the table. (Gave documents
to all present.)
• Since the period indicated on the
sheet, the Chamber has not prepared for the Council similar proportional
breakdowns. My recollection is, and I consulted our auditor, Mr.
Bregman, we ceased to prepare this document by way of a formal proposal
as at the same time we mutually agreed to enter into the special
services contract which spells out the headquarter city development
program. As of that time we used a rather extensive cover letter,
a copy of which I also have, but only one, which does not relate itself
to any specific budget figures.
-16-
JOINT MEETING - 8/1/66
Page Seventeen
• Mayor Krieger: Well, I would like to make this observa-
tion on that aspect of the contract that
has been in existence for a headquarter city, My recollection is that
the allocation for the special services contract for the last fiscal
year was $9,000; is that right?
Mr, Chris Tambe: I believe that's correct,
Mayor Krieger:
Directors for the fiscal year
headquarter city development
or in actual funds expended.
And in the report that Mr, Bregman pre-
pared for submission to the Board of.
ending June 30, 19669 I see that the
received $6,191 in allocation of funds
Is that a fair statement?
Mr, Bernard Bregman: That is correct,
Mayor Krieger: Can you give us some background as far
as the allocation of funds are concerned
as they pertain to the headquarter city aspect of it because in this
agreement that we have, we have certain functions that are proposed to
be implemented by the Chamber in terms of the headquarter city program,
Mr, Chris Tambe: From the internal point of view, at no
time since the advent of the special
services contract ala headquarter city has there ever been any attempt
made nor has there.been any request that I know of to show any
sort of a breakdown of expenditure resulted to specific activity within
not only the headquarter city program but within the other standard
services program, I made that quite clear, The advent of the head-
quarter city program, prior to that time the doucment before you
was used and computed each year, Now, the report each of you
received this evening that I delivered to Mr, Aiassa°s office this
afternoon showing a detailed breakdown on the headquarter city program
for the past twelve months of the fiscal year, has been solely and
completely an internal thing, some way that we could account to
ourselves what amounts of money specifically were being expended in
the course of carrying out the headquarter city program, These
have been internal methods for us to keep track of those things we
could hopefully isolate as being specific expenditures for the head-
quarter city program, We frankly have not been keeping any detailed
record of how much money we have, in.fact, spent on the headquarter
city alone as opposed to the other contract other than this internal
record,
Mr, Frank Carr: There is another question brought up
here, For instance, how much money
should be charged against the headquarter city program for housing the
assistant and part-time girl and so on; how do we do this? It isn't
in there, Certainly part of our expense should properly go to
headquarter city and part to the general work of the Chamber,
• Mayor Krieger: How much of this in concrete terms as
regards this aspect, whether it is a
separate document or included within the responsibilities of the
Chamber of Commerce to perform for these funds, how much of this
aspect can we document as far as performance is concerned? Are
we talking in philosophy or are we really talking in performance
services,
®17-
JOINT MEETING 8/l/66 Page Eighteen
Mr, Chris Tambe; The best wav to answer this is to take the
draft of the City Attorney's draft of the
contract is frankly little more than merely spelling the particular
specific elements of the original two contracts and putting it into
one document, I think we can approach it from one of two points of
view, one of which would be the proposal we have submitted to you in
prior years, the last of which was in 163 or 164 which has no direct
relationship to all of the things on -here. It does relate to such
things as office information center, publications, but it doesn't
contain all of the other things, We could do that or if it was your
pleasure, and I believe Mr, Bregman could help me in this regard, we
could put a price tag on each of the categories reflected here on this
contract,
Councilman Snyder: May I say that perhaps one of the things
that, to put it candidly, the Council
expressed some puzzlement or displeasure about was the fact that part
of the headquarter city agreement was, for instance, this specific
committee reports were -to -be finalized and made into recommendations
which were to be made a part of the headquarter city manual which was
started but it really has never been kept up to date, This is where
the Council felt that you had not lived up to the terms of the agree-
ment on the headquarter city thing,
Mr, Frank Carr: Number one, I will agree that the
• headquarter city book was not kept up
properly, We have excused for this and you can hear or not hear them,
I also think there was another criticism that was made at the Council
level or made to me personally, that some of our committees were
not functioning and we will agree that this is so, also, Once again
I think there are a few reasons why these things were hard to incur
and they will happen in any voluntary organization, We recognize
these facts and we are working on them, We did fall down on the book
for good and sufficient reasons and we do have some committees that
aren't working up to our expectations, We are trying to get this under-
way,,
Mr, Chris Tambeo This appears to be part of a traditional
cycle with not only volunteer organi-
zations but other agency organizations and that is over the period of
the last five to six years of our Chamber history our record shows
continual growth and continually increased activity and here's the down
part of the cycle right now, We have been in it since, I would say,
August or September of last year and that is with complete disregard
for pinpointing any specifics, but just generally speaking, and
this ties in quite closely with the absence of any supplemental
reports to the headquarter city manual, That is merely a statement,
It is not a justification, necessarily, It is what ®® the way we see
it ,
Councilman Snyder: I, for one, realize the.difficulty in
working with volunteer organizations,
but perhaps in that case we should have said that there is no report
forthcoming from such and such a committee and this, in effect, would
have answered our questions,
Mayor Krieger: I had the benefit of sitting in on the
Board of Directors meeting Thursday
as the Council representative, There really isn't the insistence, as I
gather, by the Council on a great deal of red tape or documentation or
a series of forms to be completed to make sure they are bucked up to
City Hall so that the allocations are then appropriated and disbursed,
syn
JOINT MEETING 8/l/66 Page Nineteen
• but what the City Council is interested in and I think you are, too,
is results,, In other words, true yours is a volunteer organization and
we recoenize it. Some of us belong to it and we know how volunteer
it is and it will always continue to exist as such,, But, being
responsible for the purse strings of this community we are also vested
with the responsibilitv.to make sure that for a dollar spent we get a
dollar returned and aside from the aspect of the volunteer services
which make your organization into various fields, there are certain
basic services'I assume that the Chamber is prepared and willing to
commit itself to which represents a funding requirement for membership
dues and from the City, which seem to.be your two chief sources of income,
to the extent that funds are not necessary for the housekeeping activities
of the Chamber, if you will,, If such funds are available, and this is
one of the questions we would like to have answered, then they should
be devoted to the. implementations of programs above and beyond the
standard call of the Chamber in terms of housekeeping services for which
the City gets a.dollar return for a dollar spent,, I don't mean to
make this as an oversimplification, but that is really what I. as
one Councilman,'am looking for,,
•
0
Mr,, Frank Carr:
frankly, you couldn't afford to
talent is not working? We are
I don't know what it is, I am
You are looking at an awful lot of
talenton this side of the table and
hire it,, Do you think that this
Spending a lot of time doing something;
away from my home and my bank a lot,,
Mayor Krieger: No more could we hire you to perform
what you are doing than you could hire
us -to perform what we are doing for what we are getting paid. So
we are still in the kitchen because we walked into that kitchen and it
is still within thepower of each one of us at any time it gets too
hot to walk out again, We are not here in that type of climate,, We
are here because we are engaged in the activity we believe in and we
are each trying to perform those activities to the best of our ability,
Mr,, Howard. Erickson: You said all the Council wants is to
see some results,, What would you
consider results?
Mayor Krieger: Well, Howard, the only way that I can
answer this is to go back to some of the
results that I was looking for based upon the past reports, In other
words, where is the Y,M,,C,,A,,? If it isn't here, why not, and if it
isn't here and there is a good reason why, let's forget about it but
let's not talk about it irretrievably. If there is something in that
directions let's move in that direction, Whatever happened to the
action course in practical politics? I am going to your own reports,
These committees were formed up and were going to do these things,
What has happened to that? What happened to the real, participation of
the.Chamber of Commerce in the P,,U,C,, hearings? This is subject to
conjecture as to what that participation was, but I would like to
know in concrete terms what it was, I have a whole list. I have
no desire to go over the list, I am saying on a performance basis if
we are talking about performance and I am from this standpoint, where
is the performance? Where is even the monthly meetings?
Mr, Howard Erickson: I understand what you are saying, but
then I have to find out what you want,
That is, I feel there has been performance in many of these areas
and just by way of one example, we did have the course in practical
®19m
JOINT MEETING 8/l/66
Page Twenty
• politics, In other words, is the problem that we haven't performed
or that we haven't told you that we have or have not performed?
Mayor Krieger: Maybe it is one; maybe it is the other;
maybe it is a combination of both, I
don't know until I find out,
Mr, Howard Erickson: Did you get the last quarterly report?
Mayor Krieger: Yes,
Mr, Howard Erickson: Is that quarterly report insufficient
or too late or too general, or what?
Mayor Krieger: Reading it from my impression, it's
too general,
Councilman Snyder: But also I will say that we fully under-
stand that many of these things cannot
be measured, the results in dollars, This is where it is hard to get at,
Mr, Chris Tambe: Asa very good point to help clear this
up for us would be the action course in
practical politics. Would you say you would consider that as something
we are doing on behalf of the total community or something on behalf
. of our own membership?
Mayor Krieger: I would like to see a more detailed
report on .the actual implementation
of that program to make a judgment on it, I don't know enough about
this aspect of it, what was carried out to the extent it was carried
out as a program,
Mr, Chris Tambe: The course was conducted, Some 16
persons participated, Approximately
600 of those 16 were Chamber members and. it was a full eight -week course
as developed by the.United States Chamber, With that information, are
you in a position to make a determination? Would this fit in the
category of strictly Chamber housekeeping or would it also move over
and cover an area of the community?
Mayor Krieger:, To the extent it was internal
participation, it becomes closer and
closer to the.matter of housekeeping to the extent it gets into the
community itself,
Councilman Snyder: The point is they may not have had
any response to the community request,
Mr, Howard Erickson: Would it be fair to say that you feel
• .you want as a City Council and need
some facts for the records to back up the appropriations being made?
Is this primarily what you are looking for? I would see nothing wrong
with it, I am just trying to find out,
Mayor Krieger: I think this is a matter of continued
justification in our own minds that we
are wisely spending the public funds,
®20®
JOINT MEETING m 8/l/66
Councilman Snyder. We are not
a City and
for example, repairing streets or granting
.budgetary limitations. If we are spending
we want to know that that is at least more
guard at a certain intersection.
Page Twenty -One
exactly loaded with money as
every year we have to put off,
crossing guards because of
$20,000 with the Chamber, -then
important than a crossing
Councilman Gleckmana I think that this.particular item even
though being a large expenditure was one
that we did not spend.a lot of the time on because of our confidence
in the Chamber and the job they were doing, But I do feel that a better
job of information could be done with the City Council in order to
justify the expenditures
Mr,.Howard Erickson, Harvey, it doesn't seem like we are at
odds, It seems to me from what you
are saying that if we furnished you more detailed report and if you
wanted it more often, perhaps this is all we are talking about and
this would satisfy the Council,
Mayor Krieger: That is one of the items that I have
indicated on a list that I have pre-
pared for things I believe ought to be seriously considered in the
drafting of this agreement and.one was monthly reports of all active
projects and the status report as to where those projects are,
• Mr,;Howard -Erickson: Whbn I say that I agree if I were sitting
on your side, I would want reports
to back up what money we are spending, I am not in that sense saying
.that we haven't done this. I think we have tried to do the reports
quarterly but this may not be sufficient from your standpoint and
from an administrative standpoint, I suppose it would be possible to
give them reports more often,
Mr, Chris Tambeo Yes,
Mayor Krieger- We are not just talking.about frequency;
we are talking about content,
Mr, Howard -Erickson: And more detail,
Mr., Jim P, Haldermano I. for one, rather felt this was one
reason that the City Council had a .
representative attending our monthly Board meetings, I felt that
Councilman that was there had an opportunity to see what the various
directors.of the Chamber of Commerce were reporting and what the
Chamber was doing. Now9 as far as I personally am concerned, the
same thing goes back to our meeting with the Council members and the
Executive Committee on the budget, This particular Executive Committee
which may be different next years expressed the feeling, and I think we
were all sincere in it, that we would like to be in a position of not
• taking any money from the City, I think we are all very much aware of
the fact that the City in giving us this financial help has given us
a good share of money and we appreciate it and we need it and I. for
one, certainly think that as a result of your giving this money to us
that you are entitled to reports and whatever information you want
to make.sure that the money is being spent well,
m21®
JOINT MEETING - B/1/.66 Page Twenty -Two
Mayor Krieger: This whole subject matter has the problem
of the double interpretation, At least
in my mind it was never the intent to suggest that the money should not
be allocated to activities that could be performed by the Chamber of
Commerce because I think the Chamber is unicue in its ability to perform
these services, These are.the types of services we can't get for the
money any place else anyway, so the question is not whether we
participate as a Council because I think we are in a union together in
these activities but in making.sure that this union produces results,
Councilman Snyder: I might say that as a Council representa-
tive, although I perhaps didn't go into
the detail that the majority of the Council wanted, I would still come
back with the same recommendation, However, there was the added thought
later on to combine the contracts and I think one purpose of the meeting
here tonight is just to clarify this matter on what the Council expects
of the Chamber,
Mr, Jim P. Halderman: I think this is a very simple situation,
I think it is a situation where you should
tell us what you want in the way of reports and information and I think
that should be furnished to you,
Councilman Snyder: I think also we should tell you what we
expect or hopefully expect in the way
of performance,
Mr, Don George: In the course of our consideration I
specifically asked what it was that the
City would like to have us do for the monies they would give us and I'
didn't get any concrete answer, any concrete action type of thoughts
at that time, I think we are sitting on that side of the fence how, -
We are sitting here with you discussing what you want and I think this
is what we want to know, What do you want? Reports are one phase of
it, How else can we help?
Mayor Krieger: Let me throw out one. As far as
publicity is concerned, the role of the
Chamber of Commerce as a spokesman, if you will, or as a public
relations firm for the City, this is a legitimate function of the
Chamber of Commerce, In my mind that function isn't being carried out.
I don't have the background or experience to know how you carry it
out, If I did, perhaps I would be sitting on that side of the table
rather than on this side. We don't have the wherewithall, the knowhow,
the ta.lent,.the ability, or the time to do things, This is one aspect
or one area that I feel the Chamber is woefully lacking on is the public
relations plan for the City of West Covina,
Mr, Frank Carr: In what manner?
• Mayor Krieger: One example, and this is absolutely inane,
You went to a meeting up north for
six days and there was an article in the West Covina Tribune, two
columns in length, talking about the Rosemead Manager of the Chamber of
Commerce attending that institute, Now, I don't know what the
population of Rosemead is or th.air contributions or participation,in
the future of the San Gabriel Tribune and I could care less, but I am
cognizant of the role that the City of West Covina plays geographically,
politically, economically in this area and I would expect, as an inane
illustration, certainly better coverage of one incident than that,
-22-
JOINT MEETING m 8/l/66 Page Twenty -Three
Mr,, Chris Tambe- In this particular situation, in my
• judgment, there is a definite
distinction between whatever I as a staff person attend in the way
of a meeting of this sort of an educational nature as onnosed to when
the volunteer members of the Chamber or members of the'City Council.
or the City staff are involved in such a thing as the leadership seminar
they have held at Cal Poly last September or something like that,,
Frank was present as was I and Frank°s name appeared in the newspaper
as covering it and my name did not,, I have the same prerogative as
the man from Rosemead to either write my own news releases as I have
done for five years now if I wanted to buy it for a buck and have my
picture taken in line with everybody else, and in my own considered
opinion I didn't see where that a news story saving I attended a
meeting was in any fashion publicity for the City of West Covina,,
Mayor Krieger- It is publicity for the Chamber of
Commerce and in my opinion, publicity
for the Chamber of Commerce is publicity for the City of West Covina,,
Councilman Snyder- This is a matter of judgment,,
Councilman Gleckman- I think this is not only a Chamber
problem but also a problem of this
City,,
• Mr Howard Erickson- I think we in the Chamber appreciate
Chrisys attitude on this particular
point. Of course, it is the philosophy of the Manager as to how they
do it. We have interviewed managers who have brought huge brochures
of all the pictures that they were in and all kinds of things and I
like Chris°s attitude better on it,, That can be one way or the other,,
Maybe we do fall down in publicity, but such things as the fireworks
program or Miss West Covina or many others, it seems to me are
publicity for the City of West Covina even though not directly,,
Now, maybe this doesn't hit the point; maybe you are talking about some-
thing different; maybe you feel we ought to have a public relations man
and maybe we should, but we are doing some things I think that get
publicity for the City,,
Mayor Krieger- Looking at even your major activities,
I went back a couple budgets and
found that your gross on your fireworkd show as $8,000,, It has gone
down since then,,
Mr,, Jim P,, Halderman- It went down last year because it fell
on a very unfortunate date,,
Mayor Krieger- Your Citizen of the Year is a major item,,
I felt it was a disappointing
performance,, As far as Miss West Covina is concerned, maybe some
ingenuity or imagination has to be used in that program. I was there,,
I know we held the contest to an empty house,,
Mr,, Frank Carr- This was our first attempt on something
like this,,
Councilman Gleckman- The event that they annually hold in
West Covina, the Miss West Covina show,
is not an audience show,, It never has been.and this year they tried to
get an audience but in the manner in which and the reasons for which they
conducted this particular contest, it never will be an audience show,
-23-
JOINT MEETING m 8/l/66 Page Twenty -Four
Councilman Snyder-, I think it only will be a bigger event
if., in fact, your Miss West Covina is
going to. try for Miss Universe,, Where you are just putting out
publicity as Miss West Covina, it is a different thing,,
Councilman Gleckman-, The two biggest affairs,, the installation
dinner and the Citizen of the Year dinner
have been busts and they will continue to be until you get your
membership participation in these events,,
Mayor Krieger-, I somehow felt that the Council maybe
not five our of five, but on most
occasions a majority.of the Council do show up at your dinners, much,,
much better attendance than .the Board of Directors.of the Chamber on
their assignment to,the Council meetings
Mr,, Chris-Tambe-, There has been a noticeable decrease in
participation on the part of everybody.
concerned-, What it is, we are trying to figure out,, I am inclined..
to think that -the -members of the Executive Committee and_ the Chamber
Board members would agree with you if you would say you would like us
to take a.greater role in coordinating publicity and public relation
events in the City. I think their statement who is geared for it and.
who is not is well taken,, We are not the best publicity public
relations people, but I think we have the background and the ability
to do these things,, We would be most happy to cooperate in any
way we carr if you will tell us specifically what you want, .
Mayor Krieger; Again, some of this comes down to us
detailing it and some of it down to
a. desire by the Council for initiative within the Chamber itself, to
come forward with concrete proposals or programs,, For example,. the
Chamber has a heavy participation within the business community,
We have a serious problem in the business community,, I think the
Chamber has to not wait for the Council such as in the Central
Business District Committee where we got the land owners and
merchants and- the -Chamber representatives together. I think that
some of these fields the Chamber has to strike out in,,
Councilman Snyder-, On Items A and BA particularly B, in
regard to the information center and.
maintaining data, here is where.we get a great deal of benefit from
the Chamber which cannot be measured in dollars,, If this is handled
well, if people expect to go to the Chamber and get the answers and
in fact.they do'go to the Chamber and get the answers, then.we create
a great deal of goodwill that we.as.Councilmen never hear about but
which-, in fact, is again a great deal of benefit and good will that is
not measured ire -.dollars,, I think, for instance, the Chamberes.help in
getting the Unemployment Center located and so on, these are the kind
of thi.ngs where I really expect the most out of the Chamber and where I
• think they are performing well,,
Mr,, Frank Carr-, There is a constant line of inquiry
coming into that office. The phone is
ringing all the time,,
Mr.,, Chris. Tambe-, This is also tied in with Mr,, Krieger°s
comments,, While we didn°t come to the
Council for permission -to do something, we proceeded in the conduct of
carrying out the charge of this Paragraph 1B, on our own initiative
with our own effort and with our own resources to produce two rather
-24-
JOINT MEETING m 8/1/66 Page Twenty -Five
comprehensive publications and in my opinion they are rather outstanding.
One of them is entitled "The Community Book". The second is far more
recent, "The Fact Book". In terms of putting a price tag on these
things, the actual publication was paid for by advertising. How do we
put a price tag on it or do you want a price tag on how much time, my
time, my secretary's time, the time in the office, telephone calls,
all these administrative overhead procedures involved, is necessary to
administer and coordinate a project of this sort. Quite obviously,it
is being done on behalf of the members of the Chamber as well as the
c-ommunity at large so that appears to tie in with the intent of the
contract. In the case of "The Fact Book", that included an awful lot of
information on the City government and various facilities in the
community available to the public. To my knowledge, -it is the first
time any such publication was done or produced and in fact mailed to
every household in the City. Is this the kind of thing you are talking
about where we.ought to be putting a price tag on this to better jusitfy
the things we are in fact doing?
Mayor Krieger: Again I will go back to prospectively.
I would be much more enthralled with the
Chamber presenting to us a.projection of programs either on an annual
or a five-year basis and say in this program projects that you have,
that among these projects you have a Fact Book and a community guide
or whatever other programs and projects in your body .formulate as the
programs and projects you are undertaking and tell us that you have
accomplished these things. I am not after the definitive cent
• equivalent in that project or program, but I am interested in
ascertaining within the function of the Chamber certain specific
programs and projects undertaken, performed, and completed by the Chamber
of Commerce.
Mr,, Chris Tambe: The fact we went ahead and did it
without telling you we were going to
do it doesn4t quite satisfy the fact.
Mayor Krieger: Well, m®
Mr. Frank Carr; We are also tying down every committee
to do exactly what they are told to do.
I don't.think that is right. I think we have creative people on these
committees and we ought to allow them to create as well as having
some direction.
Mayor Krieger: Tell us what is being created.
Mr. Frank Carr: The point is I don°t think we should set
down a program. We have such a thing
in essence. We have two workshops and we do have a workshop and say
this is the thing we are.driving for, but still within the committees
they come -up with the various things.
Councilman Gleckman; I think we can go back and forth this way
and I think the whole answer is if we
could get some type of report from the Chamber each month and if we
disagree or if we are looking for something further, let us
communicate with you. If you don't communicate with us, this is the
big problem we are talking about.
Councilman Snyder: In my own opinion, I think once a month
is too close for reports.
-25-
•
JOINT MEETING 8/1/66 Page Twenty -Six
Councilman Gleckmano I don't disagree with that. The
point I am making is we should be more
informed and if we are more informed, there would never be a meeting
cf this type.
Councilman Snyder: There are many things, like being an
information center, this book you put'
Out, ®®
Mr. Jim P. Halderman: Two years ago we entered this Mobil
Economy Run which was a tremendous
success, We followed up with it against last year and I think it was
probably not near the -success. Two years ago it was something we
established a lot of publicity for the City of West Covina,
Mayor Krieger:
It was an excellent program oriented
to the City of West Covina,
Mr, Jim P. Halderman: I think things like this should be
called to your attention, but I wouldn't
go along with trying to place a dollar value on everything that we do.
All we want to do is justify that we are doing something.
Mayor Krieger: The Mobil Economy Run as it is presently
being perpetuated, is it the Chamber's
feeling that that is carrying out the same service that it was originally
conceived to be?
Mro Jim.P,, Halderman:
Mr,, Frank Carr:
Mayor Krieger:
No. We didn't put the money into it.
You don't know how many hours were
spent trying to get that.out of West
Covina again this year.
No, we don't. That's the problem.
Mr. Howard Erickson: Do you suppose it would satisfy what
you want and I am more interested
personally and I think on.behalf of. the Chamber not so much in justifying
chat we have done or haven't done as trying to help get down what you
uant'if it is reasonable because I think that is the quickest way of.
9Dlving this and I think you have a right to ask for some things.
Would it be agreeable if the Executive Committee worked over this
contract a little bit and put in some additional paragraph here about
nonthly reports and whereby we report not only on what we have done but
what we plan in the future? Would you like this?
Mayor Krieger: That was going to be the sum and
substance of the conclusion of this
meeting, to ask you people to do just that, to -take back this
document and to return it to us with your additions, modifications,
deletions, revisions, which represents at least in my mind an attempt
to get a performance service contract.
Mr. Howard Erickson: To the extent that I can speak for this
group, we would be happy to do that.
Mr. Byron Clayton: There may be some areas where as Chamber
members, Directors, Committee members
we perhaps are remiss in keeping Chris informed in some of the activities.
I am currently working with the property owners and have used the
426-
JOINT MEETING e 8/l/66 Page Twenty -Seven
headquarter city concept and used Chamber literature contrary to what
the RoE,R.Co people say, we feel other major retailers could occupy
our center with modifications to the property, including garage structures
and things of this nature, Also, I participated with the'Josevh Conn
people out of San Francisco where they sent down an individual independent
research bureau from San Francisco to conduct survevs in the. Plaza and
our shopping center and again I invited them to my office for lunch
as a Chamber representative and made available to them survevs which
we have done about the Chamber and the department stores, These are.
things that may or may not conclude ®® we would like to have some of
the super stratus as far as retailers are concerned, as well, We feel
the West Covina area for the East San Gabriel Area could again use these
and we know that we lose a great deal of our traffic in the upper ranges
to Pasadena, We have through the Center, through the property owners
have tried to induce someone to take over existing structures, We
have even gone to the point of additional space, et cetera, and I was
very pleased.with the response we have gotten and I was able to come
up with the City of West Covina°s planning and is in the stage of making
themselves the headquarter city and these people perk up their ears
when they see a city is interested in something like this. If we could
land a major, it would mean as much to the City as the advent of the
May Company itself, Here again, I felt no necessity of doing this
because I was operating independently on my own for the good of my
company, but believe me without the information provided to me by the
Chamber offices, I wouldn't have gotten one step off the ground as far
as I did with these outside people, The Joseph Conn people were
impressed because where they have done surveys all over Southern
California, they said wherever they went they didn't have this type
of atmosphere, this community feeling or togetherness or the fact
we want to be number one in retail sales. I feel guilty I haven't
kept Chris informed of some.of these things, Perhaps I have been
remiss in not letting him know everything..that was going on,
Mayor Krieger.- The characterization of the type of
government that we have in the City of
West Covina and the receptivity to this type of imaginative project
can be most graphically illustrated by the participation of the City
government and this can only come about through awareness as to these
matters that are being considered, Going beyond this rather to the area
of individual initiative, I would like to put a question back to you
people and we have had a number bounce this way, You are aware of the
fact that this Council has been energetic in terms of promoting
momentum within the community, enthusiasm, participation, Do you feel
that as a Chamber that you have a momentum going?
Mr,..Howard Erickson.- What momentum are you referring to
that the City is doing? Are you talking
about the blue ribbon committees?
Mayor Krieger.- Anything, Public attitude; a public
• image, public relations,
Mr, Howard. Erickson,, We certainly have some, I donut know �®
Mr,.Chris Tambe.- I thought "The Fact Book" did quite a bit
in that regard,
Mayor. Krieger.- I meant organizational momentum within
the grass roots of your own organization,
m27m
JOINT:MEETING 8/1/66
Page Twenty -Eight
Mr, Chris Tambe- That is precisely what I had attempted to
indicate to you about an hour ago when
I said the way it looks to us as the administrators in the Chamber,
We are on the down cycle right now and it looks like we are starting
to pick up again, and I hope we do,
Councilman Snydero I think this ties in with what you are
talking about in public relations, too,
It is the Chamberas function, duty, and I think personally.in some ways
you have been performing it, to help develop this climate which your
clients felt when they came to town, For instance, even if the study
like the Real Estate Research didn°t this moment come up with any
specific recommendations, at least it indicates to Deople a climate of
thought in the City; an awareness. In that respect alone it may be
worth what we paid for it, In the same way, the Chamber has more leeway
1b act in this climate of thought than the City Council in some respects,
Councilman Gleckman: But also in respect to the Chamber I think
that they have done quite a job with
this Real Estate Research which is one of the areas in which I think
that they should be on the plus.side and it should be mentioned this
evening because there was a comment made about what have you done and
Real Estate Research was a tremendous move as far as I am concerned
on the part of the Chamber not only in saving the City money in its
original contract.but in the leg work that they did,
• Mr, Chris Tambe- You will notice in our quarterly reports,
there is a section dealing with
conferences with representatives of administration and staff activities,
(Read Paragraph 2) The attitude that Mr, Clayton and Dr. Snyder alluded
to, we try to evidence in our discussions with these representatives,
You have not seen, and I don't suggest that we proceed, that we start to
provide you with a list of who we talked to and what we discussed with
them. One of the questions to keeping the door open is to have people
talk to us is that they have found out over a period of years that we
don't shoot our mouths off, When they want the word out, they will put
it out, There is a County governmental agency right now who is in the
process of working out the final details of leasing arrangements to
move into a major facility in West Covina, I can't tell you how much
I had to do with it, All I know is that I spent two and a half hours
with a broker representing that agency, plus another one, and I
spent two and a half hours with them going over material, maps,
details, took them in the Chamber provided car, drove them around
town, and that was the last I heard of it, That was in:May, Then
I heard by rumor about ten days ago that such and such an agency was
considering coming into West Covina, I don't know whether I had
five per cent in the say of them making the decision or fifty per cent,
I don't know whether I was the first person the broker talked to or
the last person, The one note I have so far is that is a request on
the part of the Council for us to initiate monthly reports,
• Mr, Frank Carr- Which I 'am personally opposed to,
Mr, Jim P, Halderman- They didn't say monthly reports,
Mr, Frank Carr- I will go for every two months, but
not every month,
Councilman Gleckman- My suggestion would be that you come
up with a quarterly report but break
it down by months, if you can,
JOINT MEETING a 8/1/66
Page Twenty -Nine
is Mr., Phil Wax- I think maybe some of the problem might
be the City has one-year, five-year
projects which you are in the process of setting up major committees.
Maybe at this time we might need a few new projects that the Chamber
can get interested in and start us on the upgrade, Maybe through your
card service rather than burden the entire City staff and so forth
down with the completion of your studies, you might want to refer
some of this over to the Chamber, Possibly this would create a. whole
.,new atmosphere, Maybe this would satisfy some of the conditions
spelled out,
Mayor Krieger- I hoped there would be.something more
concrete than a petty argument whether
the report should be monthly, quarterly, or incorporate a monthly
report in a quarterly report, I hope the Chamber will take this
document back proposed by the City Attorney and provide us with your own
thoughts on this particular document from the standpoint of your
capacity to perform and what performance the Chamber can render to the
City under this agreement,
Mr, Chris Tambe- Do you want any attempt made in a
addition on our part to place a price
tag on any of these catagories?
Mayor Krieger- If your services can best be evaluated
by a price tag, then price it out,
Mr, Chris Tambe- I am not suggesting that is what we
ought to do,
Mayor. Krieger- I don't remember suggesting that that
is what you do, I don't remember saying
price out your activities, If it.is within your ability to price your
services within these various areas, then let us see what it looks
like. I have never seen it done that way. I don't know whether it
can be done that way,
Mr, Howard Erickson- I am confused now, I thought I under-
stood what you were saying, Now when
you say "come back with a document that shows the proposals of what
the Chamber can do", then I am not sure I follow your thinking because
this is a legal document, I am sure you don°t want spelled out in here
all the things we have discussed, I think there is set forth already
the things that traditionally the Chamber of Commerce has been doing
and it seems to me that perhaps just to add some minor changes would
be sufficient, I mention this because �®
Mayor Krieger -
there is something irregular or
specific programs that would be
agreement?
This is an annual contract, Is it
without the capacity or do you feel
unacceptable about spelling out
accomplished during the year of this
Mr, Howard Erickson- Not to set them forth generally as has
been done, I-.-didn°t know that you were
considering that they be set forth in this document as the specific
programs that we were going to entertain, more than what has been
done. It seems to me it is quite detailed already,
-29-
JOINT MEETING - 8/1/66
Page Thirty
Mayor Krieger: There are certain items in the proposed
draft that are quite detailed ®® to
have a Citizen of the Year Award Program, You can°t be more specific
than that. And yet there is very general language in there,
Councilman Gleckman:. Might I suggest that you and Mr. Erickson
who are both attorneys and I suppose would
know what each other are talking about better than the rest of us
_laymen,, but the only way this will be resolved is if the two of you
will meet on behalf of the two bodies here and come up with something
we can all live with,
Councilman Snyder: May I suggest, though, that I myself
in some respects object to a detailed
agreement m- to details being part of the contract except as to goals
because I think details would tend to hamper or limit the Chamber's
freedom of movement, I think as a volunteer organization and one that
should be creative in some respects we can't limit them except as
to,goals,
Mr, Howard Erickson: I agree with Dr, Snyder, When it comes
to this contract, it seems to me that
the general projects or general statements of what we are going to
accomplish are better, and om
Councilman Gleckman: I am not looking for details in the
contract, As far as reports, if
the Chamber President feels sixty days is better than ninety days or
thirty days,, fine. As long as we have an area of communication, I
will be satisfied,
Mr, Howard Erickson: I would like the consensus of the
opinion of the Council on this whether
or not they want it more detailed than it is, I would be happy to
work with the Mayor on this and assuming the Executive Committee wanted
me to work on it, but I certainly wouldn°t want to spend a lot of time
drafting something that then comes back to the City Council and the
City -Council doesn't want it then, My present thinking and I think
the present thinking of the Executive Committee is that it should be
general pretty much the way it is,
Councilman Snyder: I would trust whatever Mayor Krieger
has in mind, Are you stating you want
the details of all their programs included in the contract?
Mayor Krieger: I cant presume to suggest to you people
what types of programs or objectives
or goals you are laying out for the Chamber, All I want to do is
be acquainted with what those programs, objectives, and goals are,
If that draft represents your ability as well to formulate those
•goals,, objectives and programs of the Chamber, then it seems to me
what we are left with, and let's face it, is the same agreement and
one that we have had, 'In Paragraph N, the existing agreement says
"to provide the West Covina City Council with a quarterly report
outlining the Chamber°s progress and accomplishment with respect to
the above before receiving future payments," In the new contract it
states, "to provide the West Covina City Council with a quarterly
report outlining the Chamber°s progress, accomplishment and
expenditures,"
0300
JOINT MEETING m 8/l/66
Page Thirty -One
Mr, Howard Erickson: I don't understand what is wrong with
• that,
•
Mayor Krieger: All I want to know is what about this
Language, You have never seen it before,
ht has not been in your prior agreements,
Mr, Chris Tambe:
"Expenditures" was not,
Mayor.Krieger: The word "detailing" is in here,
Whether that adds anythine* I suppose
depends on the interoretation,
Mr, Chris Tambe: Do you recall receiving as a Chamber
member our annual mailing of the program
of .work? Does.that ring a bell with you?
Mayor Krieger: No,
Mr, Chris Tambe: Each year when we write to the entire
membership inviting their participation
on`the committee of their choice, we enclose a four or five®page
mimeographed document which has on the first page committee
assignments and on the second page starts with the program of .work and.
details by those committees. That, in effect, is the way I understand
the offic4.al statement of the Chamber as to what it intends to
undertake in the ensuing twelve months, That is because we have a
complication of an administrative year which is a calendar year versus
the budget, which is fiscal They overlap, Would that serve in your
mind to answer some questions in terms of what the Chamber has set
forth for itself to undertake?
Mayor Krieger: I will answer the question after I take
a look at it,
Mr, Howard Erickson: When it comes to the question of
detailing expenditures, I would object
to that because it is unnecessary to have to detail expenditures on
each particular project and I don°t think it can .be done, For example,
Chris is talking about this workshop meeting we hold where we set up
our goals, Maybe there aren't any expenditures, but this is a pretty
important thing that we do in setting up the goals for the year, I
don't see how he can detail the expenditures of answering the telephone,
writing letters, and a lot of other things,
Mayor Krieger:
You set up your goals at this workshop,
Councilman Gillum: I think this is the first time these
gentlemen have seen this contract, I
should think you should take this back with you and go over and find
the parts you don't like and come back and say "We can't do this" or
"We can't accept this" because either we are talking from one side
and you are talking from something else here, You are going to have
to sit down and discuss this
Mr, Frank Carr: We have an executive meeting this
Thursday at noon,
Councilman Gillum: I think this is the only way you can
intelligently talk to us about it,
-31-
JOINT MEETING m 8/1/66
Page `thirty -Two
Councilman Snyder-
What I think Harvey is getting at is
we want.a that, in
contract effect, lays
out a program, a performance
contract, not just something written to
satisfy the law'so we can
give you moneys There is a slight tendency
for that to happen and I
don't think that mm and I am not saying
that that has happened in
West Covina, By "performance contract" I
only mean detailed as to
your goals in relation to your contract with
the City, I don't think
you have to detail how you are going
to accomplish,those goals,
You can state them generally but there
has to be a few details like
the question of whether expenditures are
listed or not, There are
a few details that need to be listed,
Mr, Howard Erickson-
Do you really want this in the contract?
Mayor Krieger-
Put it in once and let's see what it
looks like,
Mr, Jim P, Halderman-
I think.we should take this thing to our
Executive Committee, work it over, and
come back,
Mr, Howard Erickson- This is fine, but Harvey and I have
worked over enough contracts that you
can come back and forth for six months this way and in this case I
don't think that was in the contract is so important, It is what we
• do that is important. We, need a contract, certainly, to satisfy the
law, but we have a good general contract, Why try to put everything
in the contract?'Can°t we just get this signed and get it over with?
I 'have made the changes that I want from my standpoint in here and
I can give it to you right now, That may not satisfy you, I don't know,
Doyouu really want a contract all detailed with all the things we are
going to do or is this something we can send to you.,on a friendly basis,
giving you all the information we can about what our projects are,.
theworkshopq give you our budget and all the information on expenditures
we want,- We are willing to furnish this,
Mayor Krieger- From your staff to our Council so we can'
sit down and study some more material,
This Council is not short of documents to read, What we are interested
in is results, If we thought, at least I am speaking for myself, if I
was satisfied with the results, we never would have this meeting, We
never would have had this discussion about the contract, When you,
say o'everythirig is in the contract, and.all we have to do is go out and
do it"9 that's all I am interested in in any contract, You haven't
done it under the past contract as far as I'm concerned, and if we
detailed it in this contract, I have no more assurance you would be.
doing it under the future one,
Mr, Howard.Erickson- Why detail it here? Not that we are
not going.to.do it, but putting it in
•the contract isn't going to give that much more assurance. I think we
have heard what.you want in performance, not in the contract, and I
think this means more to me than what goes into the contract,
Mayor Krieger- Then I suggest that your Executive
Board outside of the Council's presence
sit down and see'if you.can reach uhanlmity on that and if you can
comeback and say "We get the message9.gentlemen, and we suggest we
operate with that message under the contract that you propose.or:any
other changes you want to make in this contract" so.we can pass on the
letter of it, Is that. clear. enough?
®32®
L�
0
JOINT MEETING 8/l/66
Mr, Howard Erickson:
Mayor Krieger:
.Page Thirty -Three
It's clear enough for me,
Do I speak for the.rest of the Council
on this?
Councilman Gillum: Yes,
Councilman Gleckman: Yes,
Mr, Frank Carr: I have been given the impression that
we haven't been working, and I don't
agree. We have been working; maybe not up.to your expectations,
Mayor Krieger:
I am not going to quibble over semantics,
Mr, Frank Carr: It is not semantics, We have indeed
been working, We may not have been up
to full expectations, but I wouldn't want it thought that we haven't
been doing anything because indeed we have,
Councilman Gleckman: I think I am more aware of it than
the other Councilmen, being past
Director in the Chamber, and I.agree with what you said and will
substantiate it not only as a member of the Chamber but as a City
Councilman, It is to the extent of maybe what some of us expected.
Councilman Snyder: I will agree with what Harvey has said
as to what he wants the procedure now
in the contract. I don't agree that you haven't been working. I
think there are many intangible benefits that are not measurable,
Mayor Krieger. -
Mr,, Frank Carr:
Mayor Krieger:
Mr, Frank Carr:
Mayor Krieger:
COUNCIL COMMITTEE REPORTS
LETTERS
To get what I actually said, I suggest
somebody reads the minutes,
Will they be available?
Yes,
I don't think we are that far away
from it,
The Council will stand in session
again,
Councilman Gleckman: I would like to direct the staff,
with the Council's permission, to send
two letters, one to Al Pinter, the President of the Mustang Baseball
League, and one to Fred Angier, Attorney and Director for the Colt
Leagues in their invitation to the City Council which I took advantage
of and the hospitality not only shown me and my family, but to,the
office of the City Council during their tournament. This letter would
be over the signature of the Mayor,
033®
Co Co 8/1/66
LETTERS ® Continued
• Mayor Krieger-,
CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT
Page Thirty -Four
Fine. That meets with the Council's
approval.
Councilman Gillum-, There is a Central Business District
meeting Thursday at which time we are
planning to put together proposals to bring before the City Council
relating to traffic flow into the Plaza. We have had a meeting in
the past week with the two Chairmen of the Committee and we have some
proposals to bring to you.
REAL ESTATE SIGNS
Councilman Snyder-, I believe you have a copy of the ordinance
regarding real estate signs in Whittier.
Would you make that available to the City Council?
City Manager9 Mr,, Aiassa-, Yes,,
Councilman Snyder-, I would like to bring it up to the
next City Council meeting for con-
sideration and referral to the Planning Commission.
There being no further business, Motion by Councilman Gillum, seconded
by Councilman Gleckman9 and carried,, that this meeting be adjourned at
11-,25 o'clock P.M.
ATTEST-,
CITY CLERK
APPROVED
MAYOR
m34®