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12-06-1965 - Special Meeting - MinutesMINUTES OF THE JOINT STUDY SESSION OF THE CITY COUNCIL AND THE PLANNING COMMISSION CITY OF WEST COVINA9 CALIFORNIA • DECEMBER 6, 1965 LJ The joint study session of the City Council and the Planning Commission was called to order by Mayor Nichols at 7:45 P.M. in the West Covina City Hall, -ROLL CALL Presents Mayor Nichols, Councilmen Jett, Snyder, Krieger, Heath Chairman McCann, Commissioners Adams, Travis, Gleckman, Mottinger Others Present: Mr, George Aiassa, City Manager Mr, Robert Flotten, City Clerk 6 Admin, Assistant Mr, Herman R. Fast, Public Services Director Mr, Harold Joseph, Planning Director Mr, George Zimmerman, Assistant City Engineer Mr, Raymond Windsor, Administrative Analyst CENTRAL.BUSINESS DISTRICT -STUDY (Statistics and a map were presented and Mr. Joseph gave a brief summary.of this matter,) Mayor Nichols: This has been in the hands of the Planning Commission, I think the Council would like to hear from them, Chairman McCann: It does have quite a lot of history, It was brought about primarily by the problems of the old West Covina Center aggravated somewhat by con- struction work on the freeway due to their parking difficulties, This is where it first came to the attention of the Planning Commission, In evaluating some of the problems, the Planning Commission undertook a study of the old Center as to what might be done to ameliorate this condition. Along with that, we also got to thinking about the Plaza. It was called to our attention that they might be experiencing some problems later on that they are now experiencing at the Center. We held meetings on this problem with representatives of the Plaza and the Center, land owners as well as tenants. Along with this evaluation was the study of the possible extension of Center Street, The Planning Commission felt they might try to get the people interested • in doing something about their own problem and there have been Some attempts I think to work out their problems within their own organization. This seems to be dying on the vine at the present time. It was suggested by the Commission that perhaps we ought to make more detailed studies of this, Mr. Gleckman asked for a report by the City Attorney as to what could be done. As a correlary to that, I felt that merely getting a report back as to how this could be worked out would be capricious if we could not have the costs along with this. That is just about where we stand now, -1- Joint Study Session Page Two December 6, 1965 Central Business District Study Cont'd • Mayor Nichols: What has happened relative to the amount of money that'was nominally made available, the $500.00 by the City for the study? Has this also died on the vine? Mr. Joseph„ Yes. Commissioner Travis: It was rather alarming to the Commission finding that the merchants in the area naturally are very anxious to get this resolved in some way or another. Although the property owners may be in attendance at.these meetings, .they haven't had too much'to say. Some are inclined to cooperate and do what they can but there seems to be a certain lack of something as they go along, enthusiasm on the part of many of the property owners. This poses quite a'problem because it is a problem that the City is -- trying to resolve but the City has to be a catalyst in this situation. .I don't think it is the fault of the City that this has happened. It would be nice to see more enthusiasm generated by the property owners in the Center and the'Plaza'in working out this problem. Councilman Jett: At these meetings of the Planning Commission the attendance of the businessmen in the .Plaza, how many have been present?' Have there been many of them present at.these meetings? • Commissioner Travis: There could have been numerous property owners present but apparently those speaking were mostly merchants. It seems to be primarily the merchants rather than the property owners. They have turned out in fairly good numbers supporting this. Councilman Jett: But the property owners haven't shown up at all? Commissioner Travis: They may have been here but they haven't had too much to say. There are some very anxious to cooperate. Mr. Krieger made a statement the other day that with the pressure the merchants are bringing to bear on the City, probably if the merchants were able to bring the same pressure on the p roperty.owners that something might be resolved. Councilman Jett: I think something like this is pretty much of a property owner and tenant problem and I don't think the City can come in here and force them. If we could enter into this, it would be on a cooperative basis. Commissioner Travis: There has been a goodly number of people turning out but the merchants were most outspoken. How many property owners were present, I couldn't be sure. • Commissioner Gleckman: First of all, as Chairman McCann explained, the way this originated was that with the advent of Center Street and with the new interchange going in on South Vincent we literally -- when I say "we" I gather.it was all done with City permission, City planning and City condemnation, as well as the State -- we literally cut off the old Center from doing any business and immediately created vacant stores in that particular area because the tenants could not live with the amount of traffic they were getting with the interchange going in and then they definitely could not live with no access at all to their businesses -2- Joint Study Session Page Three December 6, 1965 Central Business District Study Cont'd • except through Glendora Avenue, Now, when we talk about this being a tenant and property owner problem, I feel that in some respects that is true, But, in the majority it is not. Maybe we are wrong in talking just. about Center Street when we should be talking about the downtown business district of West Covina, which would extend primarily from Orange to Glendora, from the frontage road to Walnut Creek Parkway, One of the major problems we have in this City as you gentlemen are very much aware of is the east/west access through our City, and Walnut Creek Parkway had been proposed by VictorGruenas well as several other studies, Now, the business district, in my estimation, is a ,catalyst in the idea of getting the City to do ..something regarding our traffic patterns within the area. We are now driving the consumer away frpm.our, downtown business district into surrounding business districts because of our inadequate street pattern, Like many other things, sometimes you have to create a .serious problem before you solve the problems you have had all the time, I think this is what has happened, We have a very poor circu- lation problem within our City, specifically within the business districts of the old West Covina Center and the Plaza, The landlords or the property owners, with the exception of the Center -- because Buck Burton and other landlords in that area have,met on three or four different occasions to find out what they could do as property owners.to cooperate with us in opening up their property in that particular area, both for traffic circulation and for business. In the Plaza you have a lot of absentee ownerships. You have the Plaza divided up among four major, but 27 to 35 different landlords, and they get their rent every week and some of these people have never seen the store they own. They primarily could care less as long as they have long-term leases. I say we as a City that derives income from the business within our City or any future development that we would like to bring into our City, we have to have the proper traffic circulation in order to induce any type of growth within our City. If this is not a problem of the City's and only a problem of the particular property owners, then maybe I'm wrong, but that is the situation as I see it. There were approximately 19 merchants from the West Covina Center and approximately four property owners at the first meeting asking the Commission to do something to relieve their situation. The property owners in the Center said that they would be interested except that they have been before the City Council for the past years, this problem has existed and nothing has been done about it except studies, reports, and no action, This is their feeling. I am quoting what the property owners said, They said that if at this time there was going to be some action taken that they would give the cooperation and at that time Mr, Burton committed • himself to start a committee of landlords so they could come up with the cooperation that was needed from the landlords in the Center. In the West Covina Plaza, Mr. Goldring was here, Mr, Schulman was here, and a few other landlords were here and they at that time didn't --seem to understand what the City exactly was proposing, They talked about this street going through Thrifty. There was a letter from Thrifty saying they didn't want the street. Mr. Schulman wanted to know what he got in return, where they would put Thrifty. Now the problem is coming up again and we as a Planning Commission offered our services as a catalyst and therefore are attempting to make some type of recommendation to the City Council, -3- Joint Study Session December 6, 1965 Central Business District Study Cont'd Page Four • Councilman Jett: I don't believe that this is a proper study of the City Council. This is private property. When we step in and start talking about arranging streets, access, thoroughfares through private '.property,, we are talking strictly condemnation and I don't think we want to get into this. .Councilman Snyder: I think we should get a prospective before we go any furthet. Nobody has insinuated that the City can or should step in and tell private property owners how to arrange their street. We all recognize the fact that sales tax is important to our income and I don't think the City Council can or intends to step in and tell people what to do.here but I do feel that we should at least offer some leade"rship.to a final solution on this thing. .Councilman Krieger: I don't think it is quite -.as easy as vocalizing public opinion. It is a matter of dollars and cents and property. In the new center apparently .from Mr. Joseph's report there are basically four large property owners involved. If this problem exists, and I believe it does exist, if it ..exists, it exists for them as much as it exists for their tenants and .as much as it exists for the City. I can't rationalize in my own mind why these people, if this problem exists, should sit up in the grandstand and the merchants and the City are down on the playing field and they are rooting both team$ on with the idea in mind they will realize a net gain regardless of who. wins. I think this is a problem that.faces all of us and either we have'a community of interest and a solution or we don't and either they.get in the game or stay out of it entirely, Councilman Snyder: I think the question that needs to be answered is how much dissatisfaction is there now and how many occupancy by regional and other types of businesses will be lost -in these centers. I think the Planning Commission has shown at least a little bit of loss of enthusiasm for this, maybe because of the cost. I am wondering if this was really good for downtown area, if the property owners shouldn't be willing to dedicate'streets, or form a downtown assessment district. It seems to me that a downtown assessment district might be the answer to the cost. Councilman Jett: That is something like what Pomona did except they formed a district and assessed each property owner within the district on a square footage or front footage basis.. The same thing happened at this new mall in El Monte. If the merchants and the property owners could start something like this,,.S,could see where the City would certainly be willing to step in and lend whatever assistance we could give, but I would think first we -would, -have to have some coordination and cooperation on the part of the tenants and the landlords before we could get off of the ground on anything like that. Commissioner Travis: I think you all realize that when we look at those statistics, we are thinking of a figure very close to a million dollars. Councilman Jett: And I think that is minimal. -4- Joint Study Session Page Five December 6, 1965 Central Business District Study Cont'd • Mayor Nichols: As I visualize this problem, I think it is a'problem that.at.the moment can't be tackled in its entirety and should not be dropped in its entirety, _Unless I misread everything I:have heard, the prominent major property owners in the Plaza at'the present timrne do not appear to be concerned" or interested sufficiently to bite into this problem and work towards its solution,, The only time probably that they would arrive at such a state of mind would be if leases begin to expire and they begin to lose money in their pockets and then they would become concerned. On the other -hand, if I have read what has been said correctly, there is a great urgency and a greater degree of concern expressed on the part of those who occupy space in the West Covina Center and I would think that half a loaf certainly at one time would be better than none and improvement and circulation in one wing would perhaps lead the way for improvement in the other; I;would wonder why it would not be possible for a preliminary survey to be undertaken by the City -- here is the catalyst working, the.help, the personnel -- to contact all of the property owners in the West Covina Center area to see what their reaction would be in terms of forming an assessment district and moving to put that leg through the West Covina Center,, Would someone care to react to that?' ' Mr,, Joseph: The street itself is not going to be the solution to some of the problems you • have in these two business districts,, Chairman McCann alluded to the first report we made at the Planning Commission meeting with the .property owners and merchants in attendance and we noted that certainly circulation at that time was pretty poor, but there are a lot of other problems. There is internal circulation, landscaping, signs, de- preciation of the buildings themselves, tin cans on the roofs, utility lines every which -way. They have a lot of work to do there which could entice people to come into these areas. Whether or not the street itself.is a solution, I share Chairman McCann's concern with this,, I am not sure that it is,, Mayor Nichols: I wouldn't infer that running a street per se is a solution, but you have to start somewhere. I think.all of us are aware that certainly the Center has very bad access. Certainly the street is part of the solution, having a free flow and a free circulation,, If we don't do that, you don't go into an area that is dying on the vine that people can't get to and don't.get to and say, "Take the tin cans off the roofs and this will attract people", Councilman Snyder: It is pretty well proven that the regional shopping centers are pretty competitive in California and they could very well build one on the edge of town that would have sufficient or such good circulation and such good stores that you could never get this Center going again, • Mayor Nichols: I agree with that, Councilman Heath: I feel there are a number of things related here. The success of the Center depends upon access. The quality of merchandise carried depends on whether the stores are making a profit or not, et cetera. I don't think we have gone back quite far enough. I would suggest that our first step be to actually study the traffic flow. I think we have to 540 • • U Joint Study Session Page Six December 6, 1965 Central Business District Study Cont'd find out what is the traffic route and then fit streets to accomodate that requirement of traffic. After you have solved the problem of the route and then taken Center and make better traffic.circulation within the centers. Councilman Snyder: I think we need to go to some of these alternatives they haven't studied yet. Chairman McCann: I think we have to recognize that shopping centers at best are completely competitive but the degree of obsolesence'is rather amazing when you stop to think about shopping centers. I think 20 years is pretty Long a life for a shopping center. This has been my observation that without refurbishing and staying abreast of the times,-20 years might be a good yardstick to go by. It is my feeling that we are a long way past obsolesence as far as the Center --'the general outline, the layout, the general configuration, parking, et cetera. Councilman Heath: We can't expect them to refurbish that .. whole area if they are not making money, First we must see that they make money. Then we can expect them to bring their stores up to standard. I think that access into both of those centers will be the solution of whether they survive or not and .how well they survive and I think with a little thinking the two . centers can increase in profit and if they can increase in profit, they can go ahead and develop,better stores. You can hardly expect this old center to come out with the style of a Broadway if you can't get to it. This may be solved by two minor changes, an off, -ramp near Pacific which would serve the civic center, the Broadway, and the Plaza, by a return at this point at the end of the mixing chamber so people can come off and circle back into the Plaza. If we study our road circulation,.it..is a.possibility that just two or three minor changes in what we have now will open up these markets and then let's expect the people to improve but not until they are making money. Commissioner Gleckman: That is one of the primary concerns for opening this up and having this study session. First the Commission looked at Center Street and we studied it and saw ,the figures that Mr. Joseph and his department proposed and we, I -think, at that time, if not long before,.that this is just one suggestion, This isn't the ultimate solution for this nor is it something that the Commission would recommend to the Council. I think that the action that we want the Council to know is that we are acting, as a catalyst, we would like to look at this from the standpoint that the traffic patterns leading into our business district are adequate, that the people can get out easily once they are in, that the off ramp let's say, at Orange and Pacific that was proposed leads onto the frontage road. I feel that Center Street right now into the old. Center may not be anywhere near the answer but we have to have circulation within our City. Walnut Creek Parkway, we talked about it. I don't think anything has been done. The point I am making is that you can solve all this, I think, by starting with the problem and not the solution. Councilman Krieger: I think first of all we have to define the role of the City in this whole problem area. Time and time again the City is accused when it steps into situations as acting the role of big brother and to "Keep your governmental nose out of it. It is the business of private enterprise and you are taking our property, and you have no legitimate concern in the area." Then when a problem develops, the City is castigated for Joint Study Session December 6, 1965 Central Business District Study Cont'd Page Seven • not participating more actively in the problem and seeking a solution to begin with. I think first of all we have to realize, as most of,us do,.that we have an investment, the'City has an investment in these areas. They are giving us a'return; It is a return that we are dependent upon and C e are'going to be dependent upon it during the existenceof I am speaking quite bluntly of the taxes we realize from these businesses. The merchants that are there now occupying various tenancies really have "a short-range investment. In other words,.if they'are therefor 10, 159 20 years, in my opinion they still have a short-range investment in comparison and contrast with what the City has in those areas. I'think the landlords have a long-term investment. Sometimes`it is not a very enlightening long-term investment. They are trying to get as much as they can during the shortest possible period from their property. When problems come up the turn to the governmental body involved and ask for help. I bet the property owners in the Plaza will come with the same complaints five years from now and ask us why we didn't do something for them five years ago. I think the City necessarily"has to define its role as an active role realizing we have an investment we have to get a return on. I think in one way or another we.have to jack these property owners -up into action. I think it is within our power to do so by bringing enough concerted pressure9. effort, alternatives, suggestions to them now in various areas of activity. We have been discussing traffic primarily. I think our primary responsibility in this picture lies in the area of traffic control but I think there is a lot of legitimate pressure that we can and. that we should bring upon these people to work with us in solving what is, after all, a mutual problem, and they cannot sit back and say now it is none of our business and, as they have in some of these meetings, come forth and say that for eight years we haven'.t_done.anything.because the fact.is that time and time again the'peD.ple who were faced with the problem aren't coming forth and suggesting. They are willing to sit back and to.take and to take but never to give.. I think we ought to be in a position and in a frame of mind to demand of these people that they participate in the solving of this problem and not by default of all.this responsibility, devolve upon us wherein the end regardless of what solution is evolved, it wasn't right or wrong, and it wasn't.the timely one. Councilman Snyder: If you were to decide that this extension of Center Street was a desirable thing and in the long run would be beneficial to everybody, if this were adopted on the Master Plan of Streets, then when ownership changed or precise plans changed within those areas they would have to conform and gradually we would get this street through. Would this be one pressure that we could possibly use? Mr. Joseph: We have a different reaction from the • Plaza and the Center along the lines of doing something in the area. The Planning Commission has been discussing their short-range and long-range objectives in this matter from what they have identified as the "gum on the sidewalk clean up campaign". The property owners in the Center have asked the Planning Commission �11 to crack down on zoning violations, for example, from the merchants in the Center in terms of off-street parking, in terms of signs, in terms of just cleaning up. Conversely, the merchants in the Plaza have asked the Planning Commission to crack down on the property owners in the Plaza in terms of maintenance of off-street parking areas, landscaping, and general up -dating of their shopping area. -7- Joint Study Session December 6, 1965 Central Business District Study Cont'd Page Eight The staff has been instructed by the Planning Commission to have a'kid-glove approach to this matter, write personal letters; if necessary, make personal contacts, but to bring compliance to City'regulations`both in the City Plaza and the Center,, It means the Planning,Commission is looking for the backing of the City Council. when people come screaming'to the City Council, This will be coming because of the direction of the Planning Commission to the staff, We are in the place right now of placating neither property owners nor merchants but attempting to achieve the preliminary ."gum off the sidewalk clean up campaign" and a cleaning up generally of our shopping areas, Councilman Jett: This is a -little frightening to me when I hear Mr. Krieger's remarks where we are going to assume the role of the dictator and demand that these property owners do certain things. I would hope you didn't mean it in that light but I certainly would hate to see this Council attempt to do this because I am sure you would never accomplish it, I think the property owner has a right to administer his property or his invest- ment to the best of his ability and I don't think that any government' body has the right to step in and take charge and dictate to him .what he can or can't'do and you, as an attorney, I am sure you would ..admit.this would be inverse condemnation, • Councilman Krieger: I don't think this is the place for labels. I think this is the place for solutions. If we are, -going to wait on those property owners to come up with the solution, we will be many years past the present tenure of any Planning Commissioner or any Councilman. I think you agree, Mr, Jett, that there is a problem so we are talking how to approach the solution, not what label you put on it. The role of any governmental agency is .limited by law, but the powers of a property owner are also governed by law. It is not an unfettered right to do what you wish. The reason government exists even on the local level is to make sure that the public..interest is served and that there is a public interest in those areas, Councilman Snyder: It is easy to understand why the property owner in either center who has a tenant doing all right, paying his rent, is not too anxious to do anything right now. He probably is depreciating his property and plans to sell it when the lease is up anyway. This is one thing that limits the tenure of the property owners, Usually they depreciate it and sell it, Commissioner Gleckman: I think Mr. Krieger's remarks summed it up, The City has an investment there and I think the City should protect its investment. By the same token of interpretation, then the City has no right for condemnation if they need a street because it is private property, Mr, Jett, According to your remarks, we can't do anything unless the property owners allow the City to do it. How about the rest of the people who live in that city? How about the tenants of these buildings? They have certain rights and privileges. I always thought our role was for the orderly development of a city. If this is to allow the property owner in every circumstance to do what he wishes, maybe I am wrong, Councilman Jett: You are writing a little too much into my remarks, E Joint Study Session Page Nine December 6, 1965 Central Business District Study Cont'd • -Commissioner Gleckman: We have the problem, I think we as a Planning Commission and you as a Council have.an obligation, not only to ourselves and to the City, but to the -business people, to the people''shopping in.these areas, for return .of the services that you are going to warrant, and that is good street circulation and whatever help you can get, Councilman Snyder: The City should finally come to a decision on what we feel is best for the City as a whole and then by those subtle or whatever legal pressures, plus salesmanship and leadership, try to accomplish it, and stick to it, .Councilman Jett: I don't think that the City Council has any right or the Planning Commission has .any right to go out and plan a development for any individual owner. I think that any party who has a piece of property or owns a piece of property is the only one who has the right to plan what he wants to do and come to the Council and the'Planning Commission with his plans and ask for an approval, If he has a`good plan and it fits in with the orderly development of the City, he should be allowed to do this; ..I don't think that the Council should sit'down or the Planning Commission should sit down and say, "Allright*, We will bring pressures .on these businessmen to do the things we want them to do", We are not qualified to make a determination for any of those businesses • because we are not in that business, Commissioner Gleckman: If you are trying to tell me that the people who developed this community had better knowledge than the people who are now trying to correct the --- situation, I would hate to see this City remain in the condition that it is in just because these people who suddenly became developers because they owned the land and hired somebody to give them the best return for their investment,.regardless of how it lays out within a city, I am in disagreement with you, Councilman Jett: This City, since I have been on the Council, has spent thousands and thousands of dollars.to get the advice of those professional -planners and consultants,. If.this.._is.true and what you say is true, the City has squandered hundreds of thousands of dollars of the tax..payers' money that they never should have spent, Councilman Snyder: What really Mr, Krieger said was that we should offer leadership and not passive leadership but active and positive leadership, Mayor Nichols: Where do we go from here? Commissioner Travis: Mr, Joseph, Mr, Burton seemed to be the • leader of those businessmen or those property owners in the Center quite concerned and he seemed to be willing to be most cooperative in resolving the problem in the Center and he did say he would get together with a group of property owners from that area. Was there a meeting? How many joined together with Mr, Burton? Do you have any idea? Did you consult with Mr, Burton and the group? ME Joint Study Session Page Ten December 6, 1965 Central Business District Study Cont'd Mr. Josephs Yes. We had a meeting in this room about a week after the final Planning Commission meeting.on this subject. We had abour four or five property owners .show up. I was advised at that time they were -going to form a steering committee and invite me to their first meeting. We are still waiting" for their first meeting. I called Mr. Burton the following week and he told me that Mrs. Coin living in the beach was trying to get a major property owner area to come up for this meeting. Apparently they had a meeting after that at which time Mr. Burton was not in attendance so I would think they could stand perhaps a little bit better organization. Councilman Snyder: The E1 Monte Mall, was that started by instigate the forming of the property owners or did the City that assessment district? Mr, Aiassa: The Chamber created a citizens' committee. Councilman Snyder: There must have been some reluctant members forced into that. How about the Pomona Mall? Councilman Jett: The property owners started that. I would like to see the City take any role they could to help this but not on a mandatory basis or on a basis where we • force them to do something. Chairman McCann: This came to our attention by the people in the Center. We realize there was very little we could do for them arbitrarily but what we hoped to do was to establish a rapport with these people in the City in that they would start working some of these problems out for themselves. I think quite often you have to spend money before you make money.. Obsolescence is a great deterrant to business. This, I think, is very important that this thing ought to be brought out to these people very carefully and with a lot of consideration. I still think we should go ahead with traffic circulation problems, not entirely concerning ourselves with Center Street, but study the entire area concerning the circulation within the property itself also. I think the Center has greater ills than traffic but traffic might be one of the first things we ought to look at. Commissioner Adams: I thought after our series of public . hearings and the most comprehensive staff report that we were perhaps approaching this problem for the first time in its entirety. I think the staff went-a'long way in identifying the problems and the lack of traffic facility or a through traffic facility was one of only many problems and maybe not the most significant one. One of the action items that came out of this meeting was the City was going to participate with "X" number of dollars in undertaking an analysis that would not only treat the traffic problem but all the problems in their entirety. I might speak with some knowledge on what the present planning and concepts are for this type of development and either in the new cities that we hear about and some of them we are beginning to see, as well as the higher type developments in existing areas, they are concerned with people getting to the area. They are more concerned with the environment that is there once the people arrive. Simply running a major street or secondary street to bisect an area is not the solution. It may be something we do not want to do once we have really had this thing complete analyzed by -10- Joint Study Session Page Eleven December 6, 1965 Central Business District Study Cont'd • someone who does this as a profession, who is abreast of the latest concept and thinking, I think this is the type of thing we can benefit from as to what is being done elsewhere. Before we undertake a piecemeal solution I think first we should identify the problem in its entirety and this should be done by someone, preferably from outside of the area, someone qualified to do this type of land use analysis and to bring back to the.City.and the merchants some recommendations and .concepts and then we could discuss them and then we could consider how this thing could be best approached.. I think we have given the lack of a traffic facility more importance than it really deserves, that we are overlooking some of the more significant problems. I think first .we have to identify the problem and then come up with recommendations, Mayor Nichols; In terms of the fact that the other end has not been 'picked up of our original offer, are you suggesting. that the City totally on its own resources proceed with this study? Commissioner Adams: No, I would not, Councilman Jett: I think Mr. Adams has summed up my thinking on this, Councilman Snyder.: I think someone from outside of the City would not be influenced by the prejudices and past problems that have gone on, Commissioner Adams: I think this requires a much broader look and viewpoint, not just strictly from a traffic viewpoint, Commissioner Mottinger: I think all the comments that have been made have pretty well covered the subject matter, I was pleased to see that the City was interested in parti- cipating,.trying.to initiate something in this area which has, in effect, gone stale on us. Before it'is entirely too late and before it spreads into other areas, I think we should continue all efforts that we possibly can, although I was disappointed at the response given by the proeprty owners and the merchants. At public hearings you have certain people who have a particular interest, naturally their own, who are going to respond to questions or any problems but that very frequently does not cover the majority of the people, I don't know how we could approach it but it would seem to me that there is a means at hand that we could really survey all of .those who are concerned, both the property owners and the merchants to get a true prospective of what is going on, This I don't think we have entirely done. Right now we are dealing in our own personal feelings and on the vocal .response that is.available to us. The traffic study is part of it. Land use is part of it, Mr. Adams intimated that maybe somebody • coming from the outside could give us a study. There undoubtedly are qualified firms who would do more than just these two particular items who could come in and give us a hand. I think it would be well if we had outside assistance initiated by the City to start with, but I don't think it will get to first base unless we get the wholehearted cooperation of all people concerned, property owners and merchants, Councilman Snyder: This may be exactly why we are not getting cooperation from the merchants because they come to these meetings expecting to find answers. We don't have the experts there to give them answers and it becomes speech making and -11- Joint Study Session Page Twelve December 6, 1965 Central Business District Study Cont'd • hassles and they all end up going different ways,, If the City were to.provide the expert here who might possibly be able to come up with the answers, they would give them more of an incentive,, Councilman Krieger: Let's lay the groundwork.for this a little bit because I would not like to see us launch out into a study again of a problem in the abstract so that we get the finest report imaginable on the academic level which has no` practical application or possibility of practical application,, I would suggest this in a practical sense in terms of what I am talking about,, I think we can all stipulate that we have an investment of varying degrees and of varying types in these properties along the freeway. I don't foresee any -expert coming in and suggesting that we ...turn it into R-1 property,, I assume that in some manner or form the property will be commercial and this should be our desire and intent to make it the highest and best type of commercial,, I would suggest in concrete terms that the City go into partnership with the property owners and the tenants and the business community as represented by the Chamber of Commerce right at the very beginning of this thing, whether it is by a Mayor's Conference.or anything comparable that you want to call it where duly delegated representatives of this City, elective representatives of • this City, not staff, sit down with elective representatives of the business community, talking about the Chamber and I am talking about the tenants, and with the property owners, and I would think that if it were under the. direction of elective representatives of this City in conference form that those property owners would attend and.outline the problem areas for them, from their standpoint and.from our stand- point and tell them. -we are anxious to arrive at a decision in partner- ship with them and suggest to them that among the areas of concern are traffic, rehabilitation, reorientation of their centers, and make the commitment' then and there as to what this City is prepared to do to assist this program, not just through the study phase of it but through the imple.mentation of it and ask them, in turn, for a commitment'. right then and there whether they are going to cooperate with the City or not because if they are not, if they are not in full partnership with thisTity in this venture, then let's know it right at the beginning and quit wasting our time and our money,, Councilman Jett: We are not just talking about circulation of traffic. When the old Center was the new center, the first development in the City of West Covina, the area was zoned C-3. C-3 zoning permits uses that are broader and very few have been put into that area but the fathers who originally planned that area and owned the C-3 had in mind putting into that area automobile uses, little cabinet factories, shops, things of that sort, and then putting their commercial uses in the area where the Plaza • and those places are. This was the original thinking. We are in -a period of transition in there whether we will acknowledge it or realize it right now or not. The transition is taking place and we have vacant buildings in there. I think these are the things we should start thinking about. There are a lot of uses that are in C-3 that could go in that area and revive that area,, This study is going to cost money. This new organization that was just formed, SCAG, if I understand correctly, this is an organization where we now have funds available to us through SCAG forthis type of a study on a joint basis,, -12- Joint Study Session Page Thirteen December 6, 1965 Central Business District Study Cont'd • Mr. Aiassa.- This is on a large area basis. Councilman Jett: They also said -that individual cities can come in for these federal funds for -- this type of a study. Maybe this is something we should investigate. Councilman Snyder: I agree with Councilman Krieger. This seems to be the logical approach. Commissioner Travis.- Get together with them. They are either with us or not. Councilman Krieger: Let's sit down with these people and At our call and say let's get on the ball and let's do something. This is a legitimate concern of ours. ...Commissioner Gleckman: I agree. I think that was the primary reason that the Planning Commission requested this meeting with the Council so some positive.action would be emulated from your position. In other words, the Council's position and not just in the hearing and study and general study session.before the Planning Commission. We feel the Council should take..the bull by the horns. • Mayor Nichols: It would be up to you gentlemen to make that recommendation. If you want the Council -to pick up the ball and go with it, it would seem to me you should formulate your recommendation and make it formally to the Council. • Commissioner Travis.- I think we are all aware of the fact that Center Street is two lanes at the present time. We are all aware that Home Savings and Loan will be building soon. There is no question it will generate more problems in the traffic problem. It might be quite feasible that we consider widening that street. Mayor Nichols: Thank you very much for coming, gentlemen. There being no further business, the joint study session was adjourned at 9:10 P.M. ATTEST: APPROVED MAYOR CITY CLERK -13-