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02-16-1965 - Regular Meeting - Minutes
MINUTES OF THE ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL CITY OF WEST COVINA, CALIFORNIA TUESDAY,, FEBRUARY 16, 1965 The adjourned regular meeting of the City Council was called to order by Mayor Snyder at 8.-00 P.M. in the West Covina City Hallo Councilman Krieger led the Pledge of Allegiance,, ROLL CALL Present: Mayor Snyder, Councilmen Jett, Krieger, Nichols, Heath Others Present.- Mr,, Robert Flotten, City Clerk 8 Admin,, Assistant Mr, Richard Terzian, Acting City Attorney Mr, John Q, Adams, Public Services Director Police Chief Alan Sill Mr, Sam Cianchetti, Attorney Absent: Mr, George Aiassa, City Manager Mr, Harry Williams, City Attorney Mr, Harold Joseph, Planning Director Mayor Snyder: This is a regularly scheduled meeting for the purpose of a hearing on the dance permit at Jim's Water Wheel,, Mr,, Rotten.- Let the record show this hearing was called for the purpose of considering the dance permit for the Water Wheel on Sunset Avenue,, Let the record further show that notices of this hearing were mailed to James Lotito at 648 South Sunset; State of California Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control at 11350 East Valley Boulevard, El Monte; and to Mr, Sam Cianchetti, 1502 Service Avenue, West Covina,, The notice of this hearing appeared in the West Covina Tribune on February 4, 1965, Mr, Terzian: Gentlemen, as just a small preliminary matter, this proceeding is an appeal pursuant to the provision of the Municipal Code from a refusal on the part of the Police Chief to issue a cabaret dance permit to the applicant, James Lotito, who does business as Jim°s Water Wheel Inn and Restaurant at 648 Sunset in the City of West Covina, The order of proof to be presented at this type of hearing is not provided for in the Municipal Code and it is within the discretion of the Council, However, I would suggest and the Chief of Police has already'indicated to me that he is prepared to present an argument and facts at his disposal with respect to why his action in refusing to issue this dance permit should be upheld and will also put on whatever witnesses he wishes subject to cross examination by Mr,, Cianchetti, counsel for the applicant, Mr,, Lotito,, After that, the applicant.may put on whatever evidence he wishes . subject,,again, to the right of cross examination by the Chief,, Each member of the Council is entitled to ask whatever questions he chooses of any witness who testifies,, Each witness should be sworn individually by the Clerk. Does any member of the Council have any question about.the procedure? I have already indicated to Mr,, Cianchetti and he has agreed that as a matter of shortening this somewhat, Mr. Lotito was first issued a cabaret dance permit in February of 1962 -1- Ca Cs 2/16/65 Page Two by the Chief,, The permit was reviewed for the year 1963 and again for the year 1964,, However, of course it has not been renewed for . the year 1965, Mr,, Lotito has been operating the dance pursuant to an order of the City Council permitting him to do so pending this hearing,, Councilman Krieger; Just one question,, Mr. Terzian, if I under- stand the procedure tonight this matter is before us under our Municipal Code Section 4111, is that correct? Mr,, Terzian: Yes. Councilman Krieger-, That is the only section applicable to this matter? Mr,, Terzian-, In my opinion, it is. Unfortunately, the notice indicated it is with respect to 4111.1, revocations The only difference is in the order of proof,, If this were considered a hearing as I believe it is on the refusal to issue a permit the burden of proof and the initial presentation of evidence would be upon the applicant, Mrs Lotito,, However, as a matter of order of proof we are presenting the evidence of the Chief of Police first which would be the normal method used under 4111,,1,, In that case I don't think it makes any material difference as to what section we are proceeding under,, Mr,, Cianchetti.- It would appear to me you have stated it • quite adequately, I can't see any distinction drawn between a failure to renew and a revocations I think in effect you are talking about the same things I think the burden should be on the City to go forward,, Mr,, Terzian-, It is the intention of the Chief of Police to first present whatever facts and evidence and witnesses are at his disposals Councilman Krieger-, Do you accept Mrs Cianchetti's statement just a moment ago that the burden is on the City? Mrs Terzian-, No. I don't believe the burden of proof is on the City, Councilman Krieger.- As a matter of procedural convenience is what you said the Chief is going forward? Mr,0 Terzian: Rights Councilman Krieger.- Do you take exception to that? Mrs Cianchetti: I would like to point out that first of all understand it on the that the Code.section was amended as I 14th of December of 1964 and prior to that time the old code section read that the Chief of Police may subject to the right of appeal t-o the City Council by any person aggrieved grant or refuse to grant such permit and then the code section read such permit shall be refused if the proposed activity would be contrary or detrimental to the public peace, health, safety, morals or general welfare,, The new code section deleted that last sentence entirely,, That is the sentence which makes reference to the activity which would be contrary or detrimental •*:o the public peace, health, safety, morals or general welfare, Now, all you have is,that an application is made -2- � r 1 C, Co 2/16/65 Page Three to the Chief and if the Chief of Police refuses to issue the application then the aggrieved person has'a right to appeal to the City Council, appeal the decision. There is no criteria set forth, I think unless the City had the burden of going forward and I mean both not only the burden of going forward with the proof that is, presenting its testimony first but the burden of showing some type of conduct which is detrimental to the City, it would appear to me as an attorney . representing Mr, Lotito in this matter that I would be shadow-boxing because there is no evidence as of this statement by virtue of the fact there is no standard set up for the Chief under the new section, I would have no way of knowing what to proceed, It would appear fair that the City should go forward both with the burden of proof as well as the procedural burden of proof kicking off firsts so to speak, Councilman Krieger: Do you have any objection to the Chief of Police as a matter of procedure going first? Mr, Cianchetti: None, Mayor Snyder: It doesn't state in here these permits are issued for one year, Is this customary? Mr, Terzian: Yes, it is, It has been a matter of practice of have these permits issued ona yearly basis on the same fashion as business licenses are issued, • Mayor Snyder-, That is discretionary to the Chief? Mr, Terzian: Yes, ALLEN SILL a witness in this matter was duly sworn and testified as follows-, Mra Terzian: State your full name, occupation and business address for the record, Chief Sill: I am Allen Sill, Chief of Police of the City of West Covina, Business address, 811 South Sunset# West Covina; the Police Department, Mr, Terzian: I think you may remain seated or standing when you present your evidence, whichever you wish, Chief Sill: Thank you, I feel somewhat out of place, something like the lamb in a cattle pen because my training and background is primarily as you know in the enforcement of the law and not the prosecution and I know I shall not move with such verbal brilliance as we will probably hear from Mr, . Cianchetti so if you will bear with me I will appreciate it very much, Before we get underway here I would like to read for the purpose of the record Section 4111 of the West Covina Municipal Code entitled "Permit Required"- 9°No person shall conduct or operate any cabaret dance or operate any place having cafe enter- tainment unless such person in charge of operating or having control of such cabaret dance or such place where such cafe entertainment is permitted or allowed has received a permit from the Chief of -3 C6 C. 2/16/65 Page Four Police authorizing the conduct or operation of such cabaret dance or place of cafe entertainment subject to appeal to the City Council by • any person aggrieved," Since the inception of the cabaret dance permit we have issued quite a number to locations in the community where alcoholic beverages are soldo This includes a non -sale general license which is the one we are talking about tonight or an on -sale beer license and as a matter of practice and the forms are so printed that these permits are issued on an annual basis. Up until this event transpired we had been having them expire on December 31st of each year. We have made the administrative change that all future cabaret licenses will expire on January 31st to agree with the issuance of the business license. As I said, we have issued several of these permits throughout the City and until this time we have not seen fit to deny the issuance if all the physical characteristics of the location met the requirements of the ordinance such as the size of the dance floor, designation of the dance floor, and the distance from the bar and the number of patrons as indicated in Section 4112 of the West Covina Municipal Code. We also have as a matter of practice maintained a file on each and every place in the community, each and every licensee in the community under Alcoholic Beverage Control to maintain a file and filing in this file copies of reports which have been made as a result of calls for services by the Police Department and that is the file that I have before me here this evening. • When this license was first issued in 1962 there were not too many calls as such, There were eight calls. I believe Mr. Cianchetti has this list. Mro Cianchetti: I have a list which came under your cover letter of February 10, 1965 and it outlines calls made starting at 5/2/62 and going through to 11/17'/64. Chief Sill: That is correct. Mr. Terzian: Is that the list you are reading from now? Chief Sill: Yes. I am merely counting the numbers by calendar year. There were eight calls for service at this location in 1962, the first one being in May. In 1963 the permit was re -issued and during that year we had twelve entries. Mayor Snyder; May I ask in these calls for service there is no evaluation of whether these were by the proprietor? Chief Sill, I am merely going over numbers now, sir. I will go over these later. In 1964 we find we • had 25 calls for service here. It was based on this experience that I decided not to renew the cabaret dance license at this location. Now then, if I may beg your indulgence while I go over this list of calls so that you may be better acquainted with the type of activity that has been taking place here, I will go ahead. The first call referred to was May 29 1962 and was a disturbance of the peace at 1,20 A.M. There were no arrests at this.time and Officers Cortan and Ellis were the responding officers. -4- C,, C,, 2/16/65 Page Five The following afternoon an investigation was made by Officer Cundiff revealing that a fight had occurred in which Louis Everett had kicked Walker over Walker°s attention to the victim°s wife,, The victim was • hospitalized with a broken leg and refused to press charges and the case was closed,, On September 15th there was an assault call down there at 2-10 A,,M,,9 an unidentified person asked to leave the premises by bouncer Fred Jolly,, Person pulled a knife on Jolly who responded by pulling a gun. Person fled the scene,, Kortan and Corby responded and were ridiculed by intoxicated crowd while investigating,, No one involved wished to make a report,, Mr,, Cianchetti-. Excuse me for interrupting and only for purpose of the record,, I will interpose an objection on the grounds that I think the items referred to by the Chief are beyond the scope of this hearingq immaterial,, and irrelevant,, Mayor Snyder-. Perhaps it would be better if you left out names since there were no charges made,, You can identify it as a bouncer but I think ®® how does the Council feel about this? Councilman Heath-. I would like to keep the names out of it,, Mr,, Terzian-. It is within the discretion of the Council. This is an official proceeding and there is • an absolute privilege if you are worried about a libel action,, Mayor Snyder-. I see no reason to bring these names into it,, Councilman Krieger-. The objection ran to the question of relevancy or materiality,, Mayor Snyder.-. It appears to me this is material,, Mr,, Cianchetti-. I am indicating my objection only for purposes of the record,, Mr,, Terzian-. It is my opinion,, of course the Council in its roll as arbitrator of fact and judges of the law yere. can either take or reject any evidence it so chooses,, I think evidence of any activities anywhere around the hours at which this cabaret dance was conducted should be heard by this Council,, If these things happened at a time when the dance is actually not occurring this simply goes to the weight rather than its admissibility,, The Council can in its own mind judge just how relevant this informa- tion is and how much effect it should have on its decision when it is weighing facts, Councilman'Jett-. For information, would this directly or indirectly have a bearing if it was related to dancing? • Mr,, Terzian-. Well, Councilman Jetty I think I can answer your question this way,, I think any.evidence of any violent, improper or immoral activity in or immediately.adjacent to this particular establishment at any time around the hours between 6-.00 PM,, and 1:45 A.M. even though some of the incidents may occur a little before or a little after are all relevant and admissible to the issue whether or not the issuance of this cabaret dance permit -5- C, Ca 2/16/65 Page Six would be detrimental to the public peace, health, safety, morals and welfare, What weight each particular incident should occupy in your • minds is within your discretion, Some you may feel are very important; others you may feel should not be considered but I think they should all be heard by you, Mr, Cianchetti- If I may be heard to comment very briefly, as I indicated Section 4111 was amended and at the time it was amended that portion which related to such permits shall be refused if the proposed activity would be contrary to the public peace, health, safety, morals and welfare was deleted from the code section. That particular sentence was dropped so that now we are left with Section 4113 which spells out requirements A through I to read very briefly disorderly conduct, employee dance, unsocial dancing, indecent performances, et cetera. It is my position that we are talking about a failure to renew which is essentially the same as the revocation. Hence, I believe the testimony should be limited to facts coming up under Section 4113 which constitutes the grounds hwerein the City may revoke the license. That was the basis upon which I made my objection, Mr., Terziane I think your objection is clear for the record, Mr, Cianchetti, Mayor Snyder- There is something in there saying boisterous activities, et cetera, • Chief Sill- On October 10 we had another assault call. This time it was at 2-45 A,M, and the call was at Blue Drive which is near this location and ®® I will present some officers here following this. Do you want me to use names? Mayor Snyder- You can use the officers' names, Chief Sill- In the case of Jolly, the name I referred to before, it becomes very important because in later calls at this place -- Mayor Snyder- If you feel a name is relevant use it but if it isn't, don't use it, Chief Sill- All right, At Blue Drive at 2-45 A.M. a person had tried to stop a fight at the Water Wheel earlier that evening offered to take a lady home. They were followed by her husband and two others who attacked him at the Blue Drive incident,, This incident started at the Water Wheel and would up in a battery case at another location, On October 18 a person got into a fight inside the premises and upon escorting him out the officer was interferred with by this person's uncle, This person was drunk and profane and arrested on the charge of 647(f) of the Penal Code, which . is drunk, On November 22 another disturbance of the peace and assault at 1-25 A,M, A certain person walked into the premises and was struck ®® and struck a patron sitting with his estranged wife, The fight continued outside the place. No victim wishes to press charges, C, Cd 2/16/65 Page Seven November 24, a disturbance of the peace, Three men were fighting in a parking lot with Jolly and Lotito. Two • of them were probably drunk and had been from the time they entered the premises about 1:00 A.M. These two fellows were arrested,-- I don't mean Jolly and Lotito ®m I am talking about the other two. Malicious mischief on November 25. The person went in at about 2-00 A.M., smashed a glass window with his fist. Lotito collected part payment and did not wish to press charges. The person claimed he fell through the door although he admitted to being.disturbed at paying a dollar to stay to the jam session. They conducted jam sessions with live musicians there from 2:00 A.M. until 6g00 A.M. in the morning or whatever time it was. That was all for 19 62 . For 1963, January 17, fight and drukenness outside the bar at 7000 P.M. Two officers were called. Three were arrested. On January 27, disturbing the peace at 2000 A.M. A man attempted to leave with two full glasses of liquors got abusive when manager tried to stop him. No arrest. January 30 report made this date. A certain person was dragged through the premises and out to the parking lot by her ex -boyfriend, helped by bypassers who also called police to the scene. February 16, a woman reported her purse stolen between 1000 A.M. and 2000 A.M. at the premises. No arrests made. March 9, a burglary report was taken and two persons stole two cases of beer around 3:15 A.M. Both arrested. June 7, between 2.-00 and 6:00 A.M. leader of the band at premises reported seeing several unidentified persons going to cloakroom. Shortly thereafter, three band coats were missing. That was a theft. June 299 disturbing the peace. A man and woman were leaving the premises about 2-30 A.M This woman's husband -- these people were not married ®® but her husband drove up and tried to block their leaving. They tried to open the'car door but managed to drive off. No arrests. June 26, one of our officers observed a dishwasher in the Water Wheel leave with a bottle of whiskey. Lotito claimed he gave him a bottle once a week but, of course, this is a possible violation of the Alcoholic Beverage Control since Lotito is not lic.ensed to sell packaged goods. •August 5, 1963. Theft report. Woman lost her purse between 10:30 P.M. and 1a00 A.M. December 14, a battery case and this is one we will report on later. A man was accosted on the premises by two ..unknown men, a fight ensuedq,loud pro'fanitiesg attackers fled. e;- Co'Co 2/16/65 Page Eight 1964. Here we have a suspicion of rape. A woman was picked up on the premises by a man. They drank there, • She accompanied him to several other bars in her car, About 12:30 he attempted to rape her in the vehicle. Investigating officers .arrived at this time and so on. One arrest made at that time, This was on January 5, January 24, battery case, 12:40 A,M, Two people and one Thomas Pinelli, whose name will come up at a later time, exchanged profanities on the premises and ended it with both participants striking each other, Fight went from premises to the widewalk outside, A woman was struck during this encounter, Both the man and the wife were taken to the hospital, The man had a broken ankle, The woman had a possible concussion, One arrest made, January 31, we had a robbery reported there, a.possible robbery, A man walked in there with a revolver concealed .—on his person and claimed to be a police officer and was arrested at 9040 P,M, February 11, 1964, battery, A man was slugged on the dance floor of the premises about 1-20 A,M, by an unknown person who fled out the back door, February 15, a woman had her purse stolen on.these premises about 12030 A,M, February 19, Robert Kleid, who is sitting behind me and will talk in a moment, became involved in a battery case there by a person of doubtful high character and was hit several times and was refused the use of the telephone to call the police and told to go outside, March 22, theft, A woman lost her purse around 3000 to 4,-00 A,M, in the morning, March 7th, three people were arrested in conjunction with the Sheriffes undercover officers for conspiracy to making book on the premises at-1o30 P,M, May 2, There was a disturbance of the peace and.a battery around 2:00 A,M, Pinelli swore loudly at his former girlfriend, dragged her in the hallway of the premises, slapped her, She responded by kicking him, May 11, a battery case, A person provoked a fight with one of our local attorneys, struck him several times and this matter m- no one wanted to press charges here. May 16, seven in the morning, several unknown menapparently stole items of property belonging to the employees of the establishment, • May 19, we had an unlawful display of a firearm and a disturbance of the peace and an assault with a deadly weapon, In.this case a now former Irwindale police officer threatened Fred Jolly with a gun, Lotito was advised. Apparently gave weapon to a girl standing with him and Lotito took it from her and gave it to Jolly, He denied knowledge of the incident. Later acknowledged the occurrence and stated he did it because of ABC investigation concerning bookmaking, Jolly at time of original investigation _g® C, C, 2/16/65 Page Nine refused to cooperate and denied anything happened. Two were arrested, . May 23, We were called on a disturbance of the peace, Three people were using profane language,, threatened to fight,, around 2:05 in.the morning, June 16, Another person was using profane languange,, was drunk,, and damaged the wall on the premises about 3045 P,M, June 26,, juvenile refused to leave premises; used profanity and had to be subdued by the officers around 11030 P.H. July 14, A woman had her purse rifled around 1.:50 A,M, in the morning while she was dancing. August 1,, theft, Contents of another purse was rifled about 1:00 A.M. August 20,, a person walked off with $63.00 on the table at the premises belonging to someone else, This happened about 1:00 A,M, September 22, An officer checked that a person used profane language and attempted to strike the investigating officer, September 22. Person got into a dispute with a girl on the premises about 1.50 A,M, One claimed the other impersonated a policeman and tried to get the County to assist him, There was much loud profanity and insults to the West Covina Policemen by one person, Both parties were sent on their way, Later investigation showed outstanding warrants for one of these persons from Texas which had been recalled, October 1, A woman reported that someone tried to sell her a bennie at that location. She further stated he was carrying a gun. That happened around 10:30 P.M, Mr, Cianchettio May I inquire of the Chief at this time? My list doesn't relfect two of the last complaints that the Chief is alleging. I am wondering is this the second page of the.copy that you mailed me? I go from 9/22 to 10/3 and Curtis Joseph Benjamin is listed on 10/3/64. Chief Silla The one on 10/3 is an F.I. Card, An F.I. Card is a. Federal.Interrogation Card by the officer indicating that a person was.interrogated at that particular time and that particular place under circumstances which appeared to be suspicious to the officer, There is no arrest except to make a note of the fact that he was there at that time, Is that the case you are referring to? Mr, Cianchettio Well,, are you referring to this 10/31/64' • this possible 261 P,C,, and the 25632, the Business and Professions Code? Chief Sill: I will get the report out for you. Mayor Snyder: He is missing two on his sheet, Mr, Terzian: Perhaps if you go through all of your ®m !610 C, C, 2/16/65 Page Ten Mr, Cianchetti; I don't ®m • Mro Terziano Mr. Cianchetti, you can make a list of the items that are not included on the list sent to you and we can iron it out then, Chief Sill: All right,, I just stopped at the one where a person tried to sell a woman there a Bennie. She said he was carrying a gun, October 24,, A woman leaving the premises around 12:30 A,,M,, an unknown man tried to get in her into his car,, When she refused he struck her, snatched her purse, and drove off, October 24, A person staggered out of the premises at 100 A,,M, with a six-pack of beer in his hand; failed the.sobriety test and was arrested for drukenness,, October 269 topless bathing suit show around noon, In this particular instance we cited by use of a citation rather than arrest the girl who was involved in this show, We felt at that time it was in violation of our Section 4113(f) of the Municipal Code, She was subsequently ®® she wasn't tried, to the best of my recollection, The District Attorney and the judge and the defense attorney agreed that there was probably no case here. October 30, A woman left the Water Wheel around 2:00 A,,M,, and drank the remainder of her drink,. After leaving at 3:00 A.M. she was followed by a car, The next thing she remembers is awakening at 6:00 A.M. in her car with her clothing torn and disarranged. November 17th, we had assault with a deadly weapon,, One man struck another in the face breaking his nose. This happened at 2:10 A.M. Apparently this man had been spreading rumors about the virtue, or lack thereof, of the.other man's girlfriend,, Also po®sible that one was angry because he was dancing with his wife, That is the summary of the calls that we have had at this location since the issuance of the cabaret dance permit, Mayor Snyder, Have there been any since January 1st? Chief Sill, No, Mr, Terzian: Do you anve any witnesses to put on? Chief Sill, Yes, Mr, Terzian, Mr, Cianchetti, you mentioned there were a few items mentioned by the Chief that had not been indicated on the list sent to you. Maybe we had better straighten • that out,, Mr,, Cianchetti: The one I was referring to was 10/2/64, the Business Code violation for sale of a dangerous drug, Chief Sill: That was 10/1,, m10® Co C, ' 2/16/65 Page Eleven Mr, Cianchetti: I didn't have the 10/26/64, the topless bathing suit, but I am familiar with that. • Mr, Terzian: The Council can disregard that particular incident. Mr. Cianchetti: I have no objection. Mr, Terzian: Would you like ®® do you wish to cross examine the Chief? Mr,, Cianchetti-. Yes, Chief Sill, directing your attention to the years 1962 and 1963, were these lists, that is the record of calls for services to an establishement like the Water Wheel being kept at that time? Chief Sill: Yes,, Mr,, Cianchetti: In 1962 all of the incidents you referred to and in 1963 all of the incidents you referred to were on record with the Department at that time? Chief Sill: Yes, Mr, Cianchetti: You renewed the license at the termination of the calendar year 1962? �. Chief Sill: Right. Mr, Cianchetti: And you renewed it again at the termination of the calendar year 1963? Chief Sill: Yes, Mr. Cianchetti: During the calendar year 1964 did your Department communicate either by way of calling Mr. Lotito into the Department or writing him a letter suggesting that he come in for a conference to discuss some of the calls for services which were being reported to your Department during the year 1964? Chief Sill: No. Mr., Cianchetti: Up until the time that you.refused to renew his license you had never contacted him, is that correct? Chief Sill: That's correct. Mr, Cianchetti: Do you know whether or not there has been an increase in business on the premises from the calendar year 1962 to the calendar year 1964? • Chief Sill: Will you repeat that? Mr, Cianchetti: Would you know as a matter of fact whether or not there has been an increase in business at the particular premises from 1962 through the year 1964? Chief Sill: As a matter of fact$ I would not. C. C. 2/16/65 Mr. Cianchetti: I have no further questions. Page Twelve • Mr. Terzian-, Do any members of the Council have any questions of Chief Sill? Councilman Nichols. Among the incidents that you cite where officers were called to the scene, what percentage of those calls, just in general terms, come from the aggrieved parties and what percentage of those calls came from the ranagement of the premises? Chief Sill: I hadn't worked out those in percentage figures on that score but we found irr many - instances these calls had to come to us through other sources other than the management. Mayor Snyder-, Do you have a record of who they came from on each case? Chief Sill-. These have been summarised but that information is not here. Mr. Terzian-. Perhaps the applicant on his presentation of his side of the case will have evidence to that effect. • Mr. Cianchetti: I might inquire if Captain Ryan is going to testify. I believe he has that information. Chief Sill: I don't know whether he does or not. Mayor Snyder: I don't know if it is necessary. Councilman Nichols-, I think it is very pertinent because it would at least demonstrate whether not the management was making an effort to achieve a correction of the incidents that occurred or whether management was not making an effort because it has.been stated here in testimony here already that at least on one .occasion somebody was barred or prevented from using a telephone to summon the police and I think it is a pertinent item. Mr. Terzian: Perhaps during the recess Chief Sill might be able.to go over the files and give you an approximation of how many of these calls came from them. I believe the Chief.might-be able to do that. Is that possible if you had that much time? Chief Sill: We would have to go through all of these 43 reports that we have here. Mr, Cianchetti: May I ask the Chief a question,.Mayor Snyder, with respect to ®® I wonder, Chief, do you intend to put testimony on.with respect to persons who are going to testify with respect to the majority of these instances individually? I ask.that because I can't see any point in asking you questions when it would appear what you are testifying to essentially is a summary which I assume was prepared for you but the arresting officers or investigating officers and so for"that reason to indicate to the Council that is why I ask those questions with respect to the`specfic instances.. If there isn't going to be further testimony I would like to reopen cross examination. -12- • n LJ Ca Co 2/16/65 Mayor Snyder: Mr, Cianchetti: Mr, Terzian: Chief Sill: Page Thirteen You have no doubt that these occurrences occurred? None whatsoever, Chief, would you be able to make an effort during the recess to give Councilman Nichols some approximation? I will try, yes, We will put our heads together and come up with something, Councilman Krieger: Chief Sill, did you personally make the determination in this instance with respect to the not re -issuing a permit? Chief Sill: I did, Councilman Krieger: Did you use any other information available to you other than this summary that you have testified to as the basis for making your determination? Chief Sill: Yes, I did, Information has been filtering from this location to the Police Department, incidents in which law enforcement officers have not been called when they should have been called, more or'less supression of things which were going on at the location, We had'a staff meeting on one occasion. I told the officers that while we couldn't forbid officers to go into .this place I strongly urged that they not be found in this place because of some ofthe incidents which were arising from this location and we eventually stopped -- we were buying prisoners' meals at this location, We eventually stopped that practice, too, because I didn't want the officers to be seen at this spot in uniform. There were, among other things, known ex convicts were known to be allowed to congregate at this place and the one I was referring to was Tom Pinelli whose arrest record I have here dating back to 1948 and had served time for robbery back in New York State, As a matter of fact, he violated -- he was -- he eventually violated his parole which Mr. Lotito eventually did report him. He told me, Another man with a known arrest record was one who was arrested for bookmaking who`had`been arrested prior to that for bookmaking. Stories of this nature and people of this type hanging out at this location in my mind lent to this place a _rather bad name. There didn't seem to be too.much problem and if you will recall my recitation of these events, there were a few of these incidents that occurred during the daytime hours. The great majority .of them occurred after seven o'clock at night, For the most -part the place during the daytime was being used by judges and attorneys and local professional people and there wasn't much call for service a.t that time, If I may, I would like to call a number of officers up here to give a brief description of what happened during some of these selected calls, Mr, Cianchetti: I would like to cross examine Chief Sill with respect to the additional testimony, Mayor Snyder: Very well, -13- • n U C,, C, 2/16/65 Page Fourteen Mr,, Cianchetti: As I understand it, did you alone make the decision? The staff meeting that you referred to,.this wasn't a staff meeting wherein the renewal of Mr. Lotito's cabaret permit was discussed? Chief Sill: No,, The decision has been mine and mine alone. Mr. Cianchetti: And you made that decision on the basis of the call for services which you have described to the Council plus the information that you had received and I believe you said "filtering back".to your Department that there were incidents _where officers were not being called and the activity of ex convicts and I believe you named Pinelli and a bookmaking activity and the fact that the incidences were occurring in the evening hours as opposed to during the daytime? Chief Sill: That's correct,, Mr,, Cianchetti: Directing your attention with respect to information filtering to the Department, could you describe the manner in which that information came to your Department? Chief Sill: It came to me from -- through our staff people,, Mr,, Cianchetti: Was that officers -who may have been inside the Water Wheel and brought information back to the Department? Chief Sill: This is very possible, yes,, Mr, Cianchetti: Was any of this information -reported in any type of formal police report? Chief Sill: No,, Mr,, Cianchetti: With respect to known ex convicts, as a matter of fact the only.one or I should say two, the only ex convicts that you know of that have frequented the Water Wheel during 1964 was Pinelli and Rink, is that correct? Chief Sill: I failed to call Rink an ex convict.although he was not an ex convict according to this knowledge but he had been arrested on numerous occasions dating back to 1947. Mr,, Cianchetti: From the standpoint that he had never served a State prison term? Chief Sill: That's right, but he has a criminal record,, Mayor Snyder: Does he have'convictions? Chief Sill: Yes, Mr, Cianchetti: Those are the only two that you know of? Chief Sill: That I can think of right now. I can perhaps have Captain Ryan ennumerate others if you would like,,' -14® Co C. 2/16/65 Page Fifteen Mr. Cianchetti: Directing your attention to Rinks, do you know whether or not Mr. Lotito knew of his background • prior to the time? Chief Sill: The information I had was that he did. Mr. Cianchetti: What is the information thatyou have? Chief Sill: This is information that comes to me through my staff. Mr. Cianchetti: Is there a particular member of your staff that gave you the information? Chief Sill: No. It came from all the members of the staff, sergeants, lieutenants, captains. Mr. Cianchetti: With respect to Mr. Pinelli, do you know whether or not prior to the time there was any altercation with him that Mr. Lotito knew of his background? Chief Sill: The information I had was that he did. Mr. Cianchetti: Specifically with respect to Pinelli, as a matter of fact isn't it true that on at least two or three instances that either Carmen Lotito, James Lotito's father, or James Lotito asked the Police Department for assistance in • keeping the man out of the place of business? Chief Sill: There -may have been something like that but again as I say, it then becomes a police problem to help him run his business and I would think he would have known how to do that by himself. Mr. Cianchetti: Do you know whether or not as a matter of fact that Captain Ryan ever gave you any information of conversations he may have had with either the elder or junior Lotito with respect to keeping Pinelli out of the place of business? Chief Sill: I recall we did have some.conversation to that effect although I can't relate it to you now. Mr. Cianchetti: With respect to the occurrence of called -for services,'as I understand it you compile statistics on all of the places licensed by the Alcoholic Beverage Control? Chief Sill.: We do, Mr. Cianchetti: And your statistics show called -for set -vices at, for example., taking those places which • have cabaret dance permits, Gigs, Esquire, the Stardust Bowl, Eastland Bowl, Huddle -- I presume'that you have compiled statistics with respect to those places? Chief Sill: We have. -15- Ca CQ ' 2l16%65 Page Sixteen Mr,, Cianchetti: Do those indicate a higher incident of called - for services during the evening hours -- • Gigi's, Stardust Bowl, Eastland Bowl9 Huddle =- because those places all serve food along the same line as this establishment and I wonder in your statistics -- whether or not they reflect a higher incident of called -for services during the evening hours than the daytime hours? • is Chief Sill: I don't have those files with me and I didn't prepare a list of this kind but I would say that the Huddle, and I looked at that file this evening before I came donw here -- the Huddle has only four requests for police service since they have been in operation,, 'Of course, it is a much larger place than your client,, Mr,, Cianchetti: I want to -- Chief Sill: I should make a correction,, There were not four; there were five,, I would say that probably these were during the evening hours. These dated from October, 162 to the present time. Mayor Snyder: If you are going into the record of each one of these places I see no reason to name the places,, Chief Sill: He brought it up,, Mayor Snyder: I understand,, Mr. Cianchetti: With respect to your statistics as contrasting, and I don't refer necessarily to the Huddle, but since that has been mentioned, if a rape occurs in the City of Azusa and the persons had been drinking in the Huddle prior to the time that this rape occurred would that be a called -for service at the Huddle? Chief Sill: No, Mr. Cianchetti: Is there a difference then in the list of called -- for services as you have described them for Jim's Water Wheel than, say, the Huddle or have you made some differentiation in the way you set forth your list of called -for services for the Water Wheel as opposed to some other? Chief Sill: Absolutely not. Mayor Snyder: these are logged calls, is that right? Chief Sill: These are reported..And these are the reports that I have here in their original form, most of them,, Mayor Snyder: That is the distinction about the calls? Chief Sill: Yes. Mr. Cianchetti: What I am referring to specifically is, let's assume that Officer Granat or Officer Schneider or Officer Le Blanc are called to investigate an alleged rape and in the course of their investigation it is determined that the people had been in the Huddle Restaurant or in Gigi's or the Stardust Bowl or -16- C. C. 2/16/65 Page Seventeen some other place in West Covina prior to the time of the alleged rape, would that be described in your list of called -for services against . that particular establishemnt as a called -for service? Chief Sill: Yes. If it could be traced as I indicated in one case where the meeting took place at this location. The rape took place somewhere else. We merely make the notation that this was where the incident began, not necessarily where it ended. We wouldn't expect someone to rape anyone in this place, Mr. Cianchetti° With respect to any bookmaking activity which may or may not have taken place at the Water Wheel, do you know whether or not any of that information or any of that conduct was going on in the Water Wheel with Mr. Lotito's knowledge, any of the Lotitos -- Carmen, Sue or James Lotito? Chief Sill:-- I am going to defer that to -- if you will wait on that question -- Captain Ryan will give a brief description of that incident. Could you defer that until he testifies? Mr. Cianchetti: Certainly. I have no further questions. Mr. Terzian: If you have any witnesses, Chief Sill, just call them in order. • You are handing police reports to Mr. Cianchetti? Chief Sill: Yes. Mayor Snyder: I asked Mr. Cianchetti if he had any doubt that these incidents occurred. He said "No". Is there any value in these witnesses since we all agree that these incidents occurred? Mr. Terzian: Perhaps there might be some elaboration that the Chief might wish to present with respect to certain incidents and he might. have left certain incidents out. Chief Sill: What we want to show here is the fact that Jim Lotito in many instances did not cooperate with the law enforcement in the community and that in a number of instances actually worked against us by not making certain knowledge or facts known to us which would have helped in this place becoming something else besides what it turned out to be. Mr. Terzian: I believe this would be relevant to the issue before this Council. Chief Sill: We will make this as brief as possible. You • have those reports there and here is how they are going to be called the numbers are referred to here. Mr. Terzian: You presented Mr. Cianchetti with the list of witnesses you intend to call? Chief Sill: Yes, Mr. Terzian: And copies of the police reports which, I assume which they will testify? are the reports of the incidents concerning -17- C, C, ' 2/16/65 Page Eighteen Chief Sill: That's right,, • Mr,, Cianchetti: That is 'true,, DONALD GODDARD .calked as a witness in this matter was duly sworn and testified as follows: Mr, Terzian: State your name, occupation,.and business address Mr, Goddard: Donald Goddard, Lieutenant, Patrol Division, West Covina Police Department, 811 South Sunset, City of West Covina, Chief Sill: Don, calling your attention to an occurrence at Jim's Water Wheel on September 15, 19629 you re -read your notes on this particular case, did you not? Will you briefly explain what happened? Mr, Goddard: On September 15, 1962, at approximately, I believe it was 1:45 in the morning there was an incident occurred at the Water Wheel involving two off -duty police officers from the City of Irwindale and an unknown subject whereby the subject entered, was asked to leave, and subsequently pulled a knife on one of the off -duty police officers, The officer pulled his gun out, disarmed the man, the man fled the scene, The officers handling the case, investigating it at the time got no cooperation from anybody in regard to the whereabouts of the knife. I had, occasion to contact these two subjects at their place of buisness, The Irwindale Police ......Department, adn asked both of them why they allowed the subject to get away from them and they told me they didn't.want to prosecute anybody. I asked them why the knife was not found -- where the knife was and they said they didn't know what happened to the knife and one officer told me that if we found it he would like to have it, that it was a banana -type carving knife used by people loading and unloading bananas or installing rugs, one that -cut of this nature. I have since been assigned from the Detective.Bureau..into Patrol, ..At my leaving the DetectiveBureau I was unable to locate the knife or the subject, Mayor Snyder: The Irwindale Police Officer was Fred Jolly? Mr, Goddard: That was one of them, Chief Sill: The other was Bud Hallo Were they in the employ of the Water Wheel? Mr, Goddard: It was my understanding they had been employed at that time as bouncers, • Mr, Cia.nchetti: Officer Goddar..d, this is a report that Lt. , Bowen supervised and Officer Kortan was the reporting officer, is that right? Mr, Goddard: I believe so. I haven't a copy of the report, If you have it and those are the names, that is true, 0 • C, Co 2/16/65 Mr, Cianchetti: Mr. Goddard: Mr, Cianchetti: Mr, Goddard: Page Nineteen Are you testifying from just the information which is contained in the report? From that report and my follow-up investigation through assignment of that particular case to me on the Detective Bureau, Is it your contention that Mr. Lotito either knew about the whereabouts of the knife or at least wasn't cooperating with you with respect to`the investigation? I didn't talk to him, I cannot answer that question, Mr, Cianchetti: Have you been in the Water Wheel from time to time from 1962 to 1964 during the evening hours? Mr, Goddard: I have been in there, I believe, during the daytime only since 1962, Mr, Cianchetti: Were you ever hired by Mr. Lotito to work as a bouncer at any period of time? Mr, Goddard: No, Mr, Cianchetti: And you never have been in there during the evening hours? Mr, Goddard:, Not since, I believe, New Years' Eve, 1962; some time in 1962, Mr, Cianchetti: Did you have occasion to observe the dance dancing in the conduct on that occasion, the conduct of place? Mr, Goddard: In 1962 when I was there, yes, Mr, Cianchetti: Did -you notice anything unusual about the way dancing was being conducted? Mr, Goddard: I'didn't pay that much attention to it, Mr, Cianchetti; Do you know of any instances personally of fighting on the dance floor of of any disruptions or conduct which stem from the dance activity in the Water Wheel.? Councilman Krieger: Mr, Terzian, so we don't get ourselves all involved,, with respect to Mr. Cianchetii's cross examination, are we restricting it, -:to the scope of the direct examination or is he going to be allowed to ask any questions? Mr, Terzian: I think he is entitled to test the witness° credibility --'what is the purpose of your cross examination? -19- { Co Ca 2/16/65 Page Twenty Mr, Cianchetti: If there is any problem if we are going to draw distinction between cross examination or direct examination, I will call him as my own witness, if you would like the record to so reflect, The only problem I am having is the obvious one and that is Chief Sill's testimony in its entirety is based on reports he gets from his officers, I can't see how I can -- Mr, Terzian; You are going to have an opportunity to present whatever evidence you like, The decision is up to the City Council, Mr. Cianchetti: I think I should be permitted to ask the various officers of the West Covina Police Department who were more intimately involved with the conduct as to conduct which specifically relates -- Mr. Terzian: If you are going to go beyond whatever they are testifying to on direct examination by the Chief you will have to make them your own witnesses, Chief Sill: Is this what you call a hunting expedition? Mr. Terzian: Fishing expedition, Councilman Nichols: We are not required specifically to follow court procedures, • Mr, Terzian: I should point that out to this Council. I am simply advising you as to what the law normally is in this instance, If the Council wishes to permit Mr, Cianchetti to so proceed, it is within the discretion of the Council. to do so as long as -it bears some reasonable relevance to the issue before you and.I think his issues are relevant, Mayor Snyder: In the interest of time I don't see any harm in this and we might as well clarify it now, Councilman Nichols: My only objection would be these lawyers in the audience and in one location and another begin talking in terms of jurisprudence and I get lost, I think we should keep it down to plain old City Council language so we can all know what is going on here, Councilman Krieger: I only raised the question because a series of negatives don't prove a positive, We are all interested in getting on with the hearing. If we can stick with what the witnesses are testifying to we would move things along faster. That is what these rules in court are for, Mr, Cianchetti: I'll abide by the City Attorney's ruling, Mr, Terzian: Do you have any further questions? • Mr, Cianchetti: No, Mr,, Terzian: Do you have anything else of this witness? Chief Sill: No, -20- Co Co 2/16/65 Page Twenty -One Councilman Krieger: Lieutenant, you say lack of cooperation, Who failed to cooperate with who in this . particular investigation at Jim°s Water Wheel? Mr, Goddard: It would be the Irwindale officers, Councilman Krieger: Were they employees of Jim's Water Wheel at this time? Mr, Goddard: This was my understanding, I have nothing but hearsay about the fact that they were employed, Councilman Krieger: You mean they were off -duty policemen employed in another capacity? Mr, Goddard: Yes, as bouncers. This is what I was told, Mayor Snyder: Would it be customary for an off -duty police- man employed in this capacity to carry a gun? Mr, Goddard: I believe it would be, sir, yes, Councilman Jett: Were they in uniform? Mr, Goddard: No, • Chief Sill: I would like to say at this time for clari- fication, our rules and regulations do not permit hiring of this kind and any hiring of this kind of officers hiring out in this capacity from our Police Department are,subject to disiplinary action, Mayor Snyder: This isn't necessarily true of other police forces? Chief Sill.: No, They make their own particular rules, (Recess) Chief Sill: I wanted to report to Mr. Nichols that 11 of these 43 incidents according to our reports were reported by the management. Most of these were in 1963 and before, There is only one incident where we can trace it to some member of the management since that time, Mr, Terzian: Call your next witness, Chief Sill: Donald Miller, • DONALD H, MILLER called as a witness in this matter was duly sworn and testified as follows: Mr, Terzian: Give your name and address for the record, Mr, Miller: Donald H, Miller, police officer for the City of West Covina assigned to Detective Bureau, -21- Co C, ' 2/16/65 Page Twenty -Two Chief Si11: Don, can you recall the incident which occurred at the Water Wheel on January 30, 1963? It was .a battery case and would you recap that incident for us, please? You were assigned to the Patrol Division at that time? Mr., Miller; That's correct, The incident you are referring to occurred on the 27th of January but we didn't get the report until the 30th, I was called into the station to take a battery call that occurred on the 27th where one of the employees, female employee, one of the waitresses, I believe, was having an argument with her ex -boyfriend and she refused to go with him and he offered her a cup of coffee.and she refused the coffee and then the ex -boyfriend grabbed her by the arm, I believe, and in order to avoid a scene she went to have a:cup of coffee at which time he continued to drag her out to the parking lot holding onto her .hair and I believe he broke one of the glass panes in the door at the time,, The waitress stated at the time the police were called, but I couldn't recall any reports of the police being there at the time, and she came in three days later"-- three and a half days later to make the report but didn't require any prosecution at the time, Chief Sill: And she came to the Police Department to report this incident? Mr,, Miller: That's right,, Chief Sill: And to your knowledge you checked the log and could find no entry on it? Mr, Miller: That's correct, Chief Sill: Your witness, Mr,, Cianchetti: Officer Miller, in the course of your investi- gation did you have a chance to talk to when I use the term "Lotito" I am talking -- referring to the mother, father or son-- did you have a chance to talk to any of the Lotitos? .Mr, Miller: Not at the time, I took the initial report,, It was then assigned to the -- to one of the detectives in the Bureau who would make'a follow-up investigation, Mr, Cianchetti: Was this a report you took at the station? Mr, Miller: That's correct, Mr, Cianchetti: You don't know whether or not the Lotitos were contacted with respect to this particular investigation? Mr, Miller: I don't know,, Mr, Cianchetti: As I understand it, the waitress came into the . station as opposed to some officer going to the Water Wheel and.getting the story from her? Mr,, Miller: Mr,, Cianchetti: That's correct, I have no further questions, -22 0 C. Co 2/16/65 Page Twenty -Three Mayor Snyder-, In a battery case where they just make a report and don't want to.press charges,, do the police ever file charges on their own? Chief Sill-, No. Otherwise you have no friendly witness and the District Attorney has no case. Mayor Snyder-, All right. Councilman Jett-, Was there any arrest made in this case? Mr. Miller-, Not that I know of. None at the time. Whether there was one at the detectives at that time I don°,t know. Mr. Cianchetti-, As far as you know was there any relationship between the battery and any dancing activity? Mr. Miller; The only relation I recall was she was a waitress. Whether she was one of the cocktail waitresses, I don't remember, The incident occurred in a hallway between the cocktail lounge and the kitchen. Mr. Cianchetti-, In your report you indicated it was 2-,30 A.M. to three o°clock. That is the time of the incident, is that right? is Mr. Miller; If that is what the report says, yes. Chief Sill-, This report indicates that the time of occurrence was between 2:30 A.M.. and 3-,00 A.M. Mr. Cianchetti-, Which would be after dancing hours, is that right? Mr. Miller-, That would be the end of the dancing hours. Mr. Cianchetti-, Have you been in the Water Wheel from 1962 to 1964 during the evening hours? Mr. Miller; Yes, Mr. Cianchetti-, Have you had a.chance to observe dancing conducted at that place? Mr. Miller-, Yes, Mr..Cianchetti-, Did you notice anything unusual about the way it was conducted? Mr. Miller-, What do you mean by "unusual"? Mr. Cianchetti-, Have you ever noticed any violation of law on the dance floor itself? Mr. Miller-, At the particular times I was in there I may not have been looking for any violations. Mr. Cianchetti; I have no further questions. ®23- C. C. 2116165 Page Twenty -Four Mayor Snyder-. I have this question-. This was after dancing hours,, 2-,30 to 3-.00 A.M. Was that the time they were having jam sessions which occurred at two o'clock? Mr. Miller-. I don't recall what day this incident was. I believe they had jam sessions on the early Saturday mornings and early Sunday mornings. Chief Sill-. I will give you a copy of that report to refresh your memory. (Chief Sill handed document to witness.) Mr. Miller, The time of occurrence was on a Sunday between 2.30 A.M. and 3-.00 A.M. on a Sunday,, but I don't know -- it doesn't say in the report whether a jam session was being held at that time. It doesn't say so in my report. Mayor Snyder-. This was after the time the liquor was prohibited so if the place was open it must have been for the purpose of a jam session. Chief Sill-, I believe that this is a 24®hour has been a 24mhour coffee shop in addition to the jam session. Mr. Cianchetti-. That's correct. • Mayor Snyder-. Thank you. Chief Sill-, I now call Officer Grieshaber,, RAYMOND A. GRIESHABER called as a witness in this matter was duly sworn and testified as follows-, Mr. Terzian-. State your name,, occupation and business address for the record. Mr. Grieshaber-. Raymond A. Grieshaber9 Patrolman,, City of West Covina,, Police Department, Chief Sill-. I am giving Officer Grieshaber copies of these reports. I think they need them to refresh their memories. You have a report before you numbered 11171, in the upper right-hand corner. You made that report, I believe, where the victim's name was Schiada9 S-c-h-imamdma? Will you relate for us and the Council just what happened at that time? • Mr. Grieshaber-. I was called down to Jim's Water Wheel and I contacted this victim who was standing by the front door and he told me that he went into the place about 12-,309 12:40 that evening and they were on their way to the restroom when he bumped into a couple of gentlemen suspects,, individuals and evidently all the parties had had a few drinks and a few profanities were exchanged at that time and they went about their way. The victim said he and his friend went into the coffee shop and took a seat in one of the booths. A few minutes later the two suspects came into the ®24m Co co 2/16/65 Page Twenty -Five coffee shop and one suspect cursed him and grabbed ahold of him and threw him on the floor. At this time his wristwatch flew off his wrist, Evidently the pin broke or what -have -you, The second suspect restralmd the victim's friend from interferring and subsequently it was broken up, tempers were controlled, Upon talking with the victim's friend, he stated that he saw the waitnress -® one of the waitresses pick up the wristwatch and the suspect took it from her, The victim at that time called the police ®® correction ®® he told the manager to call the police. The victim stated he waited close to an hour and no police car did show, He then took it upon himself to call the police at which time I arrived and took the report, Chief Sill- Were you ever able to identify these two suspects? Mr, Grieshaber- No, As far as I know ®® this is the extent of the case as I know it, The rest has been followed by the Detective Bureau, Chief Sill- Did you talk to any one of the Lotitos on that evening? Mr, Grieshabero As I recall, although it is not indicated in the report, I did talk to Jim Lotito that evening and he was very evasive. He made no mention regarding any •incident at that time, He denied being asked to call the police by the victim, Chief Sill - All right, Mr, Cianchetti- Officer Grieshaber, as I understand it, the victim told you he had contacted the manager and asked that the manager call the police and that the police didn't respond for approximately one hour, is that right? Mr, Grieshaber- Right, Mr, Cianchetti- Do you know whether or not they were in fact called? Mr, Grieshabero They were not called, Mr, Cianchetti- How do you know what? Mr, Grieshaber- Because I was working the shift at the time and it.was my area, Whether or not they contacted the police and there was a foul-up in communications, I don't know, Mr, Cianchetti- You don't know whether or not a call went -from the Water Wheel to the Police Department, is that right? Mr, Grieshaber- No, I don't, Mr, Cianchetti- All you know is no call came from the Police Department to your patrol uni.t.out in the area? Mr., Grieshaber- ;}` Would you restate that? f -25- Ca' C,, " 2116`f65 Page Twenty -Six Mr,, Cianchetti: The only fact that you know of is the fact that no call went from the Police Department to your patrol unit which was assigned to patrol that particular area, is that right? Mr,, Grieshaber: Not more than the one call, Mr,, Cianchetti: Yes,, Now, do you assist the Chief in terms of is there some type of special notification of a called -for service when it relates to a place which is licensed by the A,,B,,C,,? Do you assist in preparing this list that Chief Sill was referring to earlier in his testimony? Mr,, Grieshaber: In many cases, yes,, A memo is submitted by the officer,, Chief Sill: May I interject for point of clarification? The memos he is talking about are when items of interest concerning these various locations come to his attention they are requested to submit memos to me,, However, the routing of these reports is done by the Captain of the Detective Bureau who indicates that a copy of this should be placed in this particular A.B.C. file,, Mr,, Cianchetti: Thank you,, Officer Grieshaber, directing your attention specifically to the comment in your report, "The undersigned received hearsay information that • suspects one and two in Gigi°s Cocktail Lounge, West Covina, quite often,," Did you submit a memo with called -for service with respect to that? • Mr,, Grieshaber: I don®t recall if I did or not,, Mr,, Cianchetti: Now, when you talked to Jim Lotito after this incident had occurred was this after you had made your arrest and then go back and was conducting follow-up investigation or was this at or about the time you were making the arest? Mr,, Grieshaber: This was the time I took the report. There -- I made no arrest,, Mr,, Cianchetti: I see,, Where did you take the report or specifically, where did you have the conversation with Mr,, Lotito? Mr,, Grieshaber: At Jim's Water Wheel,, Shortly after I took the report, with 15, 20 mintues or so -- Mr. Cianchetti: As you have indicated in your testimony, none of.the conversation.with.respect to Mr. Lotito is indicated in your report, is that right? Mr,, Grieshaber: Right,, Mr,, Cianchetti: So I presume what you are testifying now you are testifying from your memory as to what happened on February 14, 1963, is that right? Mro Grieshaber: Right,, ®26® C. Co 2/16/65 Page Twenty -Seven Mr,, Cianchettio I have no further questions, Mayor Snyder- I have a question regarding these reports,, You have indicated that memos also occur, These are not formal reports? Chief Sill- No,, Mayor Snyder- It is the discretion of the Captain? Chief Sill- The memos will go into the file if they relate to a particular location. Mayor Snyder- Then the total of the formal reports -- Chief Sill- Yes and also some of the ones I will go back and refer to one where Goddard saw a dishwasher who he knew in the Water Wheel come out of there with a bottle of.whiskey and that is in a memo form and that is a A,,B,,C,, violation since he is not licensed to sell bottled goods, This dishwasher indicated he was given a bottle about once a week,, Mayor Snyder- This file of reports is what you call the A,,B,,C,, Pile? Chief Sill: These are all the reports we gatehr on locations licensed by the A.B.C. Mayor Snyder- The other question is these are not filed with your total police reports? Chief Sill- Oh, yes,, Mayor Snyder- And they are coded? Chief Sill.o Copies go into this file and copies also go into the regular daily report file,, Mayor Snyder- My question is right now in going through your total police records how would you find all reports related to Jim�s Water Wheel? Chief Sill- They are right here,, They are designated to this file,, Mayor Snyder: All right,, Councilman Heath- It has been brought up a number of times and it I don't know if there is any importance to but you state that a man was seen carrying a bottle of whiskey from Jim's Water Wheel and that Jim's Water Wheel is not permitted to sell whiskey,, Is he permitted to give somebody whiskey? Is this illegal? Chief Sill- On that score I couldn't say,, I don't know,, Mr,, Cianchettio In all fairness to the Chief, that it is a violation of the A.B.C. if your furnish, sell or give it away but if you do it outside the scope -- after hours even if you give it away after hours that is still considered an A.B.C. violation,, -27- ! 1 Co Co ' 2116/65 Page Twenty -Eight Councilman Krieger; You said that the victim told you, Officer, that he had reported this to the manager • and requested the manager to call the police? Mr, Grieshaber: That's correct. Councilman,,Krieger: When5ou arrived did he point out to you the person to whom he made this request? Mr. Grieshaber-, Yes. He pointed out Jim Lotito. Councilman Krieger: Subsequent to that did you have your conversa- tion with Lotito and he denied such a request had been made? Mr. Grieshaber: That's right. Mayor Snyder: You stated that the waitress picked up the wristwatch and gave it to the suspect? Did the victim claim that his wristwatch was missing? Mr. Grieshaber: Yes, he did. This is also a combination of a theft report. Mr. Cianchetti: What conversation with Mr. Lotito leads you to conclude that he was denying the fact that someone had made a report to him? What did he say and what did you say? Mr. Grieshaber: I cant give you the exact conversation. Mr,, Cianchetti: Can you give me any of the conversation? Mr. Grieshaber: Not verbatim. I confronted him and asked him whether or not the incident occurred and whether this gentleman, the victim, had asked him to call the police and I can't say he denied it but he was very evasive and it led me to believe that he never made the calf_. Mr. Cianchetti-. Was there any conversation between the victim and Mr. Lotito with respect to the call? I presume this was a three -party conversation. Mr. Grieshaber: No, it was not. Mr. Cianchetti: The victim wasn't present at the time you were talking to Mr. Lotito? Mr. Grieshaber: No, Mr. Cianchetti.: I have no further questions. Chief Sill: We will go to this other report you have in front of you of No. 27. I am going out of sequence because we have the same officer handling both cases. On May 11, 1964, you had another occasion to go to Jim's Water Wheel. Will you give us the circumstances surrounding this report? Mr.. Grieshaber: I will clarify that. I was called into the station May 11 and took the report. This was a victim of a battery. He stated that he was at the location, 2/16/65 Page Twenty -Nine which was one of the booths in the bar which would be by the dance area with a couple of friends,, From some area the suspect walked up to them • and made some accusations to him and comments and proceeded to leave, cursed him, About five minutes later the suspect returned and took about three swings and connected on two or three of them and hit the suspect in the face and neck -m excuse me -,- hit the victim,, He attempted rather feebly to strike back as one of the witnesses,.female, helped him back and the suspect then left,, Chief Sill-, You say you were called to the station the following day to take this report, is that correct? Mr,, Grieshaber-, That is correct,, Chief Sill: Do you recall any conversation you had with this victim as to why he was reporting this thing the following day and not at the time of the occurrence? Mr,, Grieshaber-, I don't recall what his reasons were for not reporting it at the time. Evidently, from the conversation I had with him, it seemed like his judgement was somewhat impaired at the time and the following day he felt more or less disturbed enough to go donw to the station and file a report, desired to prosecute,, Mr,, Cianchetti-, Officer Grieshaber, did the victim in this particular case indicate to you that prior to going into the Water Wheel he and the suspect had been drinking together? Do you recall if that was part of the conversation? Mr,, Grieshaber-, I don't recall him.stating he had been drinking with him at the Water Wheel or prior,, He had been -- Mr. Cianchetti: Do you recall any conversation specifically about the Red Vest in Covina? Mr,, Grieshaber-, The Red Vest in Covina? Mr,, Cianchetti-, Yes,, Mr,, Grieshaber: No,, I don't recall anything of that sort,, Mr,, Cianchetti-, This was a dispute over a woman, wasnet it? Mr,, Grieshaber-, Yes, it was,, Mr,, Cianchetti; And the victim is an attorney, isn't that right? Mr,, Grieshaber-, That's correct,, • Mr,, Cianchetti-, Did he indicate that perhaps that was the reason he didn't want to make a report? Mr,, Grieshaber: No, he didn't,, Mr,, Cianchetti: Who broke up the fight in the first place? m2g® CQ C6 ' 2f16165 Page Thirty Mr. Grieshaber: The suspect actually brok it up himself. He took the swings according to the victim's . statement and then left. This was supposedly three punches. Mr. Cianchetti: I have no further questions. Mayor Snyder: Did he file charges when he came in? Mr. Grieshaber-, I don't know what the outcome was, I under- stood that charges were not filed by the District Attorney, Mayor Snyder, Was the suspect known to him? Mr. Grieshaber: The victim knew who the suspect was. Councilman Jett: Was there any arrest made in this case? Mr. Grieshaber.- No. there wasn't, not to my knowledge. Councilan Jett: He filed the charges and then chopped the charges before any action was taken? Mr. Grieshaber: I think the District Attorney just didn't file the complaint on this, Councilman Heath- Since Mr. Cianchetti hasn't asked the question, is this event directly connected with,dancing in any way? Mr,, Grieshaber: The location where it occurred is just adjacent to the dance floor; that is all. Councilman Heath- During the dance period? Mr. Grieshaber: Yes. It occurred approximately 7:30 in the evening. Mr. Cianchetti: Officer Grieshaber® have you been in the Water Wheel during the evening hours when dancing was going on from 1962 to the present time? Mr. Grieshaber- At one time or another. Mr. Cianchetti: Have you ever noticed any violation of law with respect to the dancing activity itself? Mr. Grieshaber: No, I haven't,, Mr. Cianchetti- I have no further questions. Councilman Jett: What are the hours of dancing in this establishment? Chief Sill: They are permitted to dance between 6:00 P.M. and 1:45 A.M. What time they choose to start dancing, of course, is up to them as long as it is within these limitations,,., This is the way the ordinance reads. -30m • 40 Cb ca 211616S Page Thirty —One Chief Sill: Officer Forrester, JOHNNY WAYNE FORRESTER called as a witness in this matter was duly sworn and testified as follows: Mro Terzian: State your name, occupation and business address for the record, Mro Forrester: Johnny Wayne Forrester, Badge No. 8, West Covina Police Department, 811 South Sunset, West Covina. Chief Sill: Officer Forrester, on January 24, 1964 you had the occasion to be called to the Jim°s Water Wheel to investigate an assault with a deadly weapon. Would you elaborate on that for us in your own words? Mr. Forrester: At approximately 12:40 AoM, on the 24th I was backing up another police unit who made a traffic stop right on Sunset adjacent to the Water Wheel and some unknown person ran over and yelled that a fight was going on in the bar and so I drove over in a hurry and found a man and a woman lying in the doorway of the bar and the man was bleeding profusely from a large cut in the head and the woman was unconscious. I ordered an ambulance and tried to find out from the crowd what was going on or who had done it and someone mentioned Thomas Pinelli and I couldn't find him at first and finally Jim Lotito told me he had gone outside and showed me the way through the back door to the back parking lot where Pinelli was waiting to be picked up by his girlfriend, I took Pinelli around and lie denied having anything to do with the fight and we took the two victims to the hospital, The man turned out he had a. broken leg, broken in three places, and the woman possibly had internal injruieso Upon questioning the cashier at the -restaurant portion of the establishment she related that the fight had begun in the restaurant portion and continued outside on the sidewalk and then down to the bar portion where it ended up and where the police entered, Chief Sill: Did you make an investigation at this time? Mro Forrester: No, sir, not at this time. The suspect, by one of our detectives,,Thomas John Pinelli was later arrested Chief Sill: Was he arrested on a warrant? Mr. Forrester: He was arrested and charged with assault with a deadly weapon as a result of this incident, Chief Sill: Now this incident � _ occurred c urred right in the bar and dance area, did it not? Mro Forrester: It ended up at the front door of the bar. ®31® Co Co 2/16/65 Page Thirty -Two Chief Sill: Your report indicates that it happened around_ the dance floor and that Pinelli had, in fact, •hollered at someone "You son of a bitch I am going to kill you" and threw a baby highchair at him, i Mr, Forrester: This occurred in the restaurant portion of it, Chief Sill: Your witness, Mr, Cianchetti: As I understand it in this particular investi- gation Mr. Lotito assisted you in locating Pinelli® is that correct? Mr, Forrester: Yes, sir, Mr, Cianchetti: With respect -- did you testify at any subsequent proceedings wherein charges were filed against Pinelli? Mr, Forrester: No. sir, Mr, Cianchetti: You know what happened to the case? Mr, Forrester: I do not,, Mr, Cianchetti: As a matter of fact, it was dismissed, wasn't it? Mr, Forrester: I have no way of knowing, I didn't attend any proceedings whatsoever in connection with the case, Mr, Cianchetti: And with respect to any activity which may have occurred inside the Water Wheel that was in the restaurant portion as opposed to the dance portion, is.that right? Mr, Forrester: Yes, sir, Mr, Cianchetti: Have you in your off -duty experience from to go into the Water the years 1962 to 1964 have you had occasion Wheel from time to time? Mr, Forrester: Two, three times, Mr, Cianchetti: Have you ever noticed any violation of law with respect to the conduct of dancing inside the Water Wheel? Mr, Forrester: No, sir, Mr, Cianchetti: I have no further questions, Mayor Snyder: What was the deadly weapon? Mr, Forrester: Chairs and newspaper racks, Mayor Snyder: Thank you, -32- t C,, Co 2/16/65 Page Thirty -Three Mr,, Terzian> Just to clarify the record, it may be confusing, where is the dance -bar portion of the Water • Wheel with respect to the restaurant portion physically? Mr,, Forrester: It is partitioned off by a wall.. but you can go from one to the other through a doorway. Mry Terzian; Is there a door or just an open area? Mr. Forrester: There is a door there. Mayor Snyder: I think for clarification, there is a hallo Mr,, Forrester: Yes, sir, I don't know if it still is there or not,, There used to be a door leading directly from the bar to the restaurant right as you enter the door at the end of the hallway and further down there was another door and then the restaurant, Mr,, Cianchetti: At least it was there before Chief Sill's staff meeting? Mr, Forrester: I don't know,, I don't attend the staff meeting,, Chief Sill: That is correct. He doesn't attend the staff meeting,, Councilman Jett: Was there any indication that these parties had been drinking that resulted this? Mro Forrester: I don't know if they were drinking or not, Councilman Jett: Or whether it had any connection with the dancing or not? Mr,, Forrester: I don't know,, Councilman Krieger: Did Mr,, Lotito come forward -during the course of your investigation and volunteer this information as to Mr, Pinelli.'s whereabouts? Mr,, Forrester: I met him inside the bar and he told me this,, Councilman Krieger: You were conducting your investigation initially outside of the bar, is that right? Mr,, Forrester: The people were lined in the doorway of the bar, yes, sir,, Councilman Krieger: Did Mr,, Lotito come out while you were conducting your investigation? • Mr,, Forrester: Not to my knowledge, no,, Chief Sill: In other words, in this case you weren't called; you had someone run out in the street and stop your car? -33- 0 C, C, 2/16/65 Mr, Forrester° Mayor Snyder: Mr. Forrester: Page Thirty -Four I was stopped on the street and someone ran up to me, yes, sir, Did you call any other officer to help you in the investigation? Seeing the large crowd,, yes, sir, I did ask the station to back me up and send an ambulance, Councilman Nichols: You indicated that you were apprised of this problem at a location somewhere adjacent to the premises on Sunset Avenue, is that correct? Mr, Forrester: Yes, sir, Councilman Nichols: And,that you at that time then hurried to the Water Wheel location where at this particular location you found the man and the woman in an injured state, the woman unconscious, is that correct? Mr, Forrester: Yes. sir, Councilman Nichols: If I understand you then, a person came across the area of the parking lot onto Sunset to your vehicleq told,you of this condition, you went back to the location and the fight had terminated by that time and these people were there, is.that correct? Mr, Forrester: Yes. sir, Councilman Nichols: Do you have any knowledge that any person on that premises other than the person that ran to you had turned in any telephonic report to the Police Department on this issue? Was there any other car dispatched to the Water Wheel that joined you there at that time? Mr, Forrester: No. sir, Before any calls came out I asked for help myself, Councilman Nichols: There had been no call prior to that to the Police Station from the Water Wheel, is that correct? Mr, Forrester: Not to my knowledge, Councilman Nichols: Was the person who came across the street to you to apprise you of this condition an employee of the Water Wheel? Mr, Forrester: I don't know, Councilman Nichols: Was this person garbed in any fashion to indicate to you then were an employee of the Water Wheel? Mr. Forrester: No. sir, -34® Co Co 2/16/65 Page Thirty -Five Mr, Cianchetti: Officer, who was the complaining victim in this.case? There were two victims in this • case, weren't there? Mr, Forrester: Yes, Mr, Cianchetti: Who was the wife with relationship to the bar? Wasn't she a waitress there? Mr, Forrester: I don't knows sir, whether or not she was a waitress there, Mr, Cianchetti: Did you talk to a Mrs. Tiger during the course of your investigation? Mr, Forrester: Yes, Mr, Cianchetti: She is an employee of the Water Wheel, Did she cooperate with you? Mr, Forrester: Yes, Mr, Cianchetti: She testified at the preliminary hearing, didn't she? Mr, Forrester: I wasn't at the preliminary hearing, sir, so I don't know, Chief Sill: On your other report, Officer Forrester, the one No, 21, were you called to the Water Wheel on February 11, 19647 Is that correct? Mr, Forrester: Yes, sir, Chief Sill: At about 1:20 A.M.? Mr, Forrester: No, sir, I wasn't called. I made a traffic stop on this particular subject, Chief Sill: Go ahead and tell us about this event, Mr, Forrester: The person crossed the barricade at Sunset Avenue and Sunset Place, He drove over the double double lines and I stopped him and upon alighting from his vehicle I noticed that his mouth was cut very badly and his shirt had blood all over it and I asked him what happened and he stated he and his wife had been at the Water Wheel bar and an unknown man asked his wife to dance. After the dance the victim walked to the dance floor and asked his wife to dance with him and another unknown man hit him in the face causing his lip to bleed, Victim stated he tried to find out who hit him but was told by an unknown person that the suspect ran out the back door. The victim's wife verifies the victim's statement. Neither the victim nor the wife could identify the • suspect, Chief Sill: But according to the way they reported it to you this occurred on the dance floor, did it not? Mr, Forrester: Yes, sir, -35- C, Co 211.6/65 Chief Sill: Your witness, Page Thirty -Six • Mr, Cianchetti: Officer., as I understand it the only way you found out about this was by virtue of the fact you stopped this victim -- this particular victim in an offense which is unrelated to any activity in the Water Wheel and saw his face was cut and asked him about it? n U • Mr. Forrester: Yes, sir, Mr. Cianchetti: He didn't indicate to you he.made any report prior to that time? Mr. Forrester: No, sir. Mr,, Cianchetti: I have no further questions, ROBERT C. KLEID called as a witness in this matter was duly sworn and testified as follows: Mr, Terzian: Would you give your name, occupation and business address for the record, please? Mr, Kleid: Robert C. Kleid, West Covina Fire Department, 819 South Sunset, Mayor Snyder: For the record, I treated Mr. Kleid after this incident, It has no bearing on this case but it should be noted for the record, Chief Sill: Bob, on February 19, 1964 you were in the Water Wheel, Will you relate the events which transpired after you got there? Mr, Kleid: Well, I was there to gather information to assist me in a problem so I want to state one thing, that I wasn't there to -- for a reason to solve a problem and not to create an additional one for myself so it is indicated in some of the reports, A week previous to going to the Water Wheel I had called Irwindale Police Department and I was in hopes of contacting a former West Covina Police Officer by the name of Madison and at that time they told me that Madison was no longer with the Irwindale Police Department, that a Fred Jolly, who I knew at one time when he was with the West Covina Police Department, that they said Mr. Jolly would know the whereabouts of Mr. Madison and so I asked them if they knew where he worked at the present time and they thought that I could contact him at the Water Wheel so then a day or so went by and I went there for lunch one morning when I came back from the fire station at 819 South Sunset and I spoke.to a couple of waitresses and found out that Fred Jolly is normally there in the afternoon, Then that evening -- I guess it was around eight o'clock -- I went in and I saw -- I think I went in the restaurant and asked if Fred Jolly was on duty and they said he was in the bar area so I went back and he wasn't tending bar but was sitting at the end of the bar near the side door leading to the parking lot, I asked him the different questions I wanted to know and he told me that Mr. Madison had gone —36— C. C. 2/16/65 Page Thirty -Seven overseas on a job somewhere as a guard. In the meantime, prior to that, I had also called a friend of mine who was to meet me there. In the course of buying Fred a couple of drinks at that time I was -- which is quite surprised that he was no longer in police work. Being a fireman you normally aren't in contact with what policemen are doing and so on and so forth so we discussed his different jobs since he left the West Covina service. So, after he left I was sitting at the bar and things got a little uncomfortable. I was going to leave and I believe I would have left had it not been waiting for a friend of mine. So I moved and I moved down the bar and I remember sitting next to these two girls, either that or they came in later, I don't recall. - Anyway, I was sitting there I would say maybe 15, 20 minutes and all of a. sudden a man by the name of Rink -- I discovered his name later and I had never seen him before in my life -- came down and threatened me, that I had said things about the dance band and since I had only been in there on one other occasion and that was in the restaurant area and I think I had been in there once on a fire prevention inspection, but .other than that I hadn't been in there. Anyway, he came down and said that I had said the band stunk and I couldn't have cared less about a band because I wasn't in there -- I had never seen the band; the band wasn't up on the bandstand so I didn't even know what the band looked like so I thought he had mistaken me for someone else that had said something. Anyway, I remember the girl next to me said, "If I was you, this is not the place to talk back" and I said, "Well" and • then teh bartender came down and I asked him what was the trouble, that I hadn't said anything derogatory about the place, that I felt that the man was mistaken. So anyway, I got up off my stool and went up to see this Rink and I tried to nicely get squared away. I don't know what he was thinking about but I wasn't the person who he thought I was or what I had said so anyway I can see that he was quite belligerent and that I wasn't going -to get anywhere and I wasn't about to create any problem so I went back and sat down on my bar stool. About that time I think the band started moving their equipment on the bandstand and so I took -- I remember I asked the bartender if it was all right if I can move my -- in.the Navy 12 years a lot of states don't allow you to move a beer from hither to you -- so I wasn't quite sure about West Covina whether you could move a beer from here to there so I asked him and he said it was okay. So I moved the beer over to the entertainment bar and I think they even might have played one or two songs and they were good -- Chief Sill: Mr. Mayor, can you have the people in the back be quiet so we can catch this testimony? Mayor Snyder: Yes. Mr...Kleid: At that time I asked the band if they would care for a drink and they said it was too early in the evening, that the management didn't allow them to take •a drink that early in the evening and I said if I ask him and they said "Help yourself" so that was the occasion I was walking over towards the main bar t`o`ask the bartender who -- by that time I perceived that he was the" managei "`br,_an authority of sorts -- to ask if I could buy the band a. beer or a drink;':--So,I passed this individual that I had had a difference of opinion with., Chief Sill: This ins Rink? l -37- Co C, 2/16165 Page Thirty -Eight Mr, Kleid: Yes, So about the time that I passed him, something hit me and the -- and it hit me . behind my left ear and I think I was hit -- Ireally don't recall now -- I think I was hit three times but anyway I remember staggering down to the bar and I leaned up against the bar and I asked the bartender at that time if he would give,me.assistance by calling the police and he said "Call them yourself". By the time I got to the end of the bar where a phone was I found that it was a -- Chief Sill: For incoming calls only; no dial? Mr, Kleid: Yes, No dial, so then I -- I left there and I came back up and he hit me some more and knocked me into a fountain and I don't recall too much about that time except that I don't know whether -- I remember -- I think I was dragged out of the fountain once and then hit again,, That is all hazy as far as I am concerned but anyway I finally got outside and called the police and about that time why they rolled up and after that again I just remember seeing a lot of faces, Chief Sill: This Rink, when he first approached you at the bar and told you not to make any derrogatory remarks about the band you thought he was mistaken, is that correct? Mr, Kleid: Yes,, That is true,, • Chief Sill: Then you went back to Rink at a later time to explain"You must be mistaken;.it wasn't me"? Mr, Kleid: Right, because I was astounded that he came down the bar in the first place to -- Mr, Terzian: You have answered the question,, Mr, Kleid: I'm sorry, Chief Sill: Then you went over to buy the band a drink and then as you were coming back to find someone who would tell you whether or not they could have a beer or a drink this Rink copped a sunday on you? Mr, Kleid: Right,, I was a patsy,, Chief Sill: At any time did you try to strike back at this Rink? Mr., Kleid: Nog sir, Chief Sill: Were you too stunned to take any defensive action? Mr.,, Kleid: I remember -- I am embarrassed to say it, but • I remember just barely trying to defend myself, Chief Sill: After you were hit you went to the bartender and asked him to call the police officers and he refused? Mr, Kleid: Yes,, He -- ER E C. C. 2/16/65 Mr, Cianchetti: • Mayor Snyder: Chief Sill: Mayor Snyder: Page Thirty -Nine I would appreciate if we hear the witness' testimony and not the Chiefs. I think the Chief is just clarifying. I am just re-emphasizing some of these points I think that are important in this particular case, I don't think he has made any new statements, Councilman Krieger: Mr, Kleid was quite detailed in his description. It seems to me it is somewhat repetitive to merely ask questions which summarizes the witness' testimony, Chief Sill Well -- Mr. Terzian: I am sure the Council heard all these points, If,you have any further questions -- Chief Sill: Didyouu finally call the police? Mr. Kleid: I believe I did, Chief Sill: And you said you were treated or Dr, Snyder .eventually treated you? What was the nature or extent of your injuries? Mr, Kleid: I had a cut on my chin, My hand was cut which I didn't recall until I read the report, My hand was cut; my head was sore. My throat was sore. I couldn't speak for a couple.of weeks due to the fact I injured my larynx or something of this nature. I had been hit in the throat. Chief Sill: Were you required to take time off from your job as a result of this? Mr.. Kleid: I believe I was, Chief Sill: May I direct a question of the Mayor? Are .these injuries substantially what you treated? Mayor Snyder: Yes, He had a high degree of cerebral contusion. He had no memory when I first saw him, Chief Sill: Thank you, Your witness, Mr. Cianchetti.: Mr, Kleid, do you know what the term "86" means as far as a bar is concerned? Mr, Kleid: Yes, I do, • Mr, Cianchetti: Had you been 861d by the bartender before this fight started? Mr, Kleid: No, sir, Mr, Cianchetti: The bartender never told you to leave before the fight started? -39- C. C. 2/16165 Page Forty Mr. Kleid: No. • Mr. Cianchetti: Did you tell the police officers you had been drinking at the particular location before any fight started? Mr. Kleid: Did I tell the officers I had been drinking? Mr. Cianchetti: Yes. Mr. Kleid: At the same location? Mr, Cianchetti: Right. Mr. Kleid: I don't recall what.I told them. Like I say, sir,, I wasn't too sure of where I was or what I was doing at the time of my -- Mr. Cianchetti: Do you recall telling them that you had been drinking at your home prior to the time you went,to the Water Wheel? Mr, Kleid: I don't remember telling anyone anything. Mr. Cianchetti: Let me ask you this: Do you recall doing the drinking? Mr. Kleid: Yes, I do. Mr. Cianchetti: Did you drink at your home before you went to the Water Wheel? Mr. Kleid: Yes. Mr. Cianchetti: And -- Mr. Kleid: I had one beer at home. Mr.. Cianchetti: Was that shortly before you went to the Water Wheel? Mr. Kleid: Yes. It was after my dinner with my family. Mr. Cianchetti: Did you stop at any place prior to the time you went into the Water Wheel? Mr. Kleid: No. Mr. Cianchetti: In the Water Wheel do you recall what and how much you had to drink? Mr. Kleid: Yes, sir. I had one beer talking to Fred •Jolly and then when he left he bought me another beer which I told him at that time wasn't necessary. I remember this form of conversation. I had a beer at the piano bar, however, at the time I don't acknowledge that that was more than one -sixth of it was consumed. Mr. Cianchetti: So in total you had two and one -sixth beers? -40- • • C. C.. ' 2l1&165 Mr. Kleid: Mrr. Cianchetti: Mr. Kleid: Mr. Cianchetti: Mr. Kleid: Mr, Cianchetti: Page.Forty-One Three, counting the one at home, sir. Now, when you went up to the -bartender you asked him to call the police, is that right? Yes, I did, Had you had any conversation with that bartender before the fight started? Not to my knowledge or that I remember. Do you know who the bartender was? Mr. Kleid: I believe it was Mr. Lotito or he was very similar in appearance. It has been a year now since I have been in there and I have never been in there previously to recall but I would say they looked'a lot alike if it wasn't him. Mr. Cianchetti: Is this a single occasion that you had been into the Water Wheel? Had you been in there any time prior to that occasion? Mr. Kleid: Yes, on a previous fire prevention inspection. Mr. Cianchetti: I see. Chief Sill: That was in your official capacity? Mr. Kleid: Yes. Mr. Cianchetti: Were you in there just the one time? Mr. Kleid: Now you are speaking of the bar and not the restaurant? Mr. Cianchetti: That's right. Mr. Kleid: Yes; that's correct. Mr. Cianchetti: And the bartender told you if you wanted to use the phone you will have to use the one outside, is that right? Mr. Kleid: That is right. Mr. Cianchetti: Is that the only place where a phone is located? Mr. Kleid: It wasn't to my knowledge at that time. Mr. Cianchetti: Is that why you say he declined to offer you any help? Mr. Kleid: I think I spoke it in such a way I think I needed assistance. Mr. Cianchetti: Is that what you told the bartender? -41- • 1 C. C. ,2/16/65 Mr. Kleid: Mr. Cianchetti: Page Forty -Two I think it was obvious. I am saying is that the statement that you made to the bartender that you needed assistance? Mr. Kleid: I believe I asked him to call the police and he said "Call them yourself" so that is why I looked at the end of the bar and saw this other phone. Mr. Cianchetti: I have no further questions. Councilman Heath: With all due respects to this gentleman, I believe we are hearing one side of a story of an.incident that happened and we are taking this manes word for it. We have not heard the other side. We don't who who was responsible for this incident, whether he is or whether the other man is or anything about it but I am at a loss at this time to know what all this testimony and questions and so forth has to do concerning a dance permit. You attorneys can tell me if we have to go through all of this, if we have to go through all -@iese questions and details other topics other than related to the dance permit. Please tell me and I sill sit through the whole thing but if we are going through a bunch of rigamarole here which is not related'to the'dance,permit then I think we.should get back on the track. Mayor Snyder: I might answer that under Section 4113(a) Disorderly Conduct, and most of this is directed toward that section, I would imagine. Mr. Terzian: I might also add that any disorderly or improper conduct taking place at the time the cabaret dance is conducted in or about the premises is relevant to the issue as to whether or not the cabaret dance permit was properly refused the issuance by the Chief and as I have indicated it before to the Council if the Council chooses to attach less weight to one incident than to another that is within the discretion of the Council in rendering its decision but I think it is all relevant to the issue and I think it should be heard by the Council. Councilman Heath: Disorderly conduct any place on the premises has relation to the dance permit? Mr. Terzian: I mean the restaurant -bar because there are people on the dance floor, there are people sitting around at the tables around the dance floor. If it occurs around the hours that the dance is carried on or for which the dance permit is issued, furthermore, just to elaborate, I also think that evidence as to conduct and activities of persons who frequent this establishment or who are employed at this establishment during the hours for which the cabaret dance permit is also relative to the issue even though the particular misconduct of those persons may occur at. hours aside from the hours that the cabaret dance is carried on. • Councilman Heath: '_,_y4� I am reaching for a point here, granted, --,but we had a case here where the two people never got any further than`'the door of the bar. This still relates to dance permits? Mr. Terzian: I belie`ve_'_'`he testimony the fight started somewhere else inside, I believe it does. C. Co 2/16/65 Page Forty -Three Councilman Heath: Then I will sit through it, • Councilman Nichols: I would tend to agree that these matters are irrelevant, I_think we are reaching a point where we have 43 incidents cited and if one is relevant we might then be here all night long listening to testimony about 43 of them and we still come back to the Council's prerogative to determine how much we feel. we need to hear about particular ones and I would hope that we might expedite the testimony in these corroborating matters to a little bit greater extent than we have so far. It is 10:25 and we are not half -way yet, it would appear,, I would urge speed upon those giving testimony,, Mayor Snyder: I would agree with you except I don't know how you hurry them up,, Chief Sill: I call Captain Ryan, WILLIAM M. RYAN called as a witness in this matter was duly sworn and testified as follows: Mr, Terzian: State your name, occupation and business address for the record, please,, Mr, Ryan: William M. Ryan, Captain of the West Covina Police Department,, Chief Sill: Captain Ryan, and you are Captain of the Services Division of the Police Department which includes the Detective Bureau, is that correct? Mr, Ryan: That's correct,, Chief Sill: All right, As such you handled a liason between the vice squad of the County Sheriff's Office and our own Police Department, is that also correct? Mr. Ryan: That's correct, Chief Sill: Now, on March 7. 1964, three arrests for Will bookmaking were made in this establishment. you elaborate on that for us, please? Mr, Ryan.: Prior to that date we had some information that alleged bookmaking activities were being conducted at the Water Wheel and with that information we requested the help of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Vice Squad to investigate, which they did and on March 7, 1964 in the early afternoon arrests were made at the Water Wheel in which three persons were placed under arrest for conspiracy to commit bookmaking,, Chief Sill: Who were these? How many of these people were employed by the Water Wheel? Mr, Ryan: Two, -43- C. C. 2/16/65 Page Forty -Four Chief Sill: And in what capacity were they hired? • Mr. Ryan: One was a cocktail waitress and one was a bartender. Chief Sill: Was the bartender Fred Jolly? Mr. -Ryan: That is correct. Chief Sill: And the third person not employed by the bar was a man who has been previously referred to in other testimony by the name of William Rink. Is that correct? Mr. Ryan: That is correct. Chief Sill: In the course of your investigation and what gation do you feel there you know of the Sheriff's vice squad investi- was knowledge on the part of the owner Lotito that this activity was going on? Mr. Cianchetti: I am going to object to the form of the question. That calls for a bald -faced conclusion on the part of Captain Ryan,, Mayor Snyder: I believe you asked that of Mr. Sill earlier. Mr. Cianchetti: I don't recall that I did. • Mr. Terzian: I believe he may answer the question Mr. Cianchetti. Mayor Snyder: We have had a lot of conclusions all evening. He can answer the question. Mr. Ryan: Yes. Councilman Nichols: Is that an opinion? Mr. Rayn: That is my opinion9 yes. Councilman Nichols: Is it based on any factual information that you would care to relate to the Council? Mr..Ryan: Yes. Councilman Nichols: Mr. Mayor, I feel that an opinion has been given by a witness that has been called here that implicates directly the principal in this matter to an illegal act. The witness indicates that he has information, factual information, that would corroborate or confirm his opinion and I think it would be totally pertinent at this time and I would like to know what factual information is available to indicate this if the City Attorney agrees. • Mr.. Terzian: I have ruled that he may answer the question. Perhaps Chief Sill in his further questioning may elicit such information. Chief Sill: What caused you to form this opinion? -44- C. C. • 2116/65 Page Forty -Five Mr. Ryan: Well, on occasion during that period of time I had eaten lunch .'at the Water Wheel. I had observed a subject by the name of Pinell-i with a section of the newspaper dealing with the horse races on several occasions and on a couple of occasions I had observed Mr. James Lotito in and around the area where this subject Pinell'i was seated and on one occasion I had -> I observed -him talk to him and from the information of the vice squad as to their investigation in this --this subject by the name of Rink frequented the Water Wheel in the late morning and early afternoon hours quite frequently and with that, that is my opinion. Chief Sill: Did you ever have a conversation with Fred Jolly some time after this incident concerning James Lotito and, any connection he may have had with this operation? Mr. Ryan: No. I didn't have any conversation with Jolly about it or anything like that. Chief Sill: Fine. Your witness. Mr. Cianchetti: Captain Ryan, first of all directing your attention to the list of called -for services which was provided for me by your office, as Captain of the Services Division is it your responsibility to prepare this list? Mr. Ryan: Yes. • Mr. Cianchetti: Do you know how many offenses, or I shouldn't say "offenses" but how many called -for services there were for Gigi's during the year 1964? Mr. Ryan: No. I haven't added them up. Mr. Cianchetti: How about the Esquire Room? Mr. Ryan: I couldn't say. Mr. Cianchetti: The Stardust Bowl? Mr., Ryan: I couldn't say. Mr. Cianchetti: Do you know off -hand what any of them are? Mr. Ryan: No, id do not. Mr. Cianchetti: How about going back to 1962, 1963? Do you know what any of them are for that period of time? Mr. Ryan: No. 1 Mayor Snyder: This is not pertaining to the questions asked • of him earlier. Mr. Terzian: He can always call Captain Ryan and ask these questions as his own witness. - Mayor Snyder*;_-. All right. Go ahead, Mr. Cianchetti. You =__,._might indicate when you say "1962 and 1963" just what establishments you are referring to and so forth. 1' -4 5- Ca C, 2/16/65 Page Forty -Six Mr, Cianchetti: Now in your experience in re a at' f s p p A. ion o a list of this type would you say it is usual • or unusual that the incidents of called -for services increases in a place like this during the evening hours as opposed to the daytime hours? Mr, Ryan: I would say you would get more incidents in the evening hours as opposed to the daytime hours, Mr, Cianchetti: Would you get more at a place that has dancing than at a place that doesn't have dancing? Mr, Ryan: Well, of the establishments that we have in town that have dancing, if we want to compare we have very few incidents. I can't tell you exactly how many incidents as I stated before at each establishment, Mr, Cianchetti: Isn't it a fact that the places that do business in the,City of West Covina, the places that do the majority of.the business during the evening hours are those places that have dancing?. Isn't that true? Mr, Ryan: I couldn't say because I don't frequent them, Mr, Cianchetti: In terms of called -for services at a place • like the Bourbon Room right adjacent to the Broadway Department Store, which is, as I recall, does not have dancing, would you say that place does anywhere near the business that the Water Wheel does? Mr, Ryan: I don't know, Mr, Cianchetti: And in terms of ascertaining this called -for services list do you make any attempt to go to the establishment and determine what the relative amounts of business at the various places are? Mr, Ryan: No, Mr, Cianchetti: So that this is just a fist of called -for services which may or may not be related to the amount of business being done in an establishment? Mr, Ryan: Would you give me that question again? Mr, Cianchetti: I say with respect to your list of called -for services that is merely a total number of the called -for services at a particular establishment but would not bear any relationship to the amount of business that particular establishment is doing? • Mr, Ryan: Yes, That would be true, Mr, Cianchetti: Now, directing your attention to the bookmaking activity now you indicated three people were arrested at the Water Wheel, As a matter of fact, only two were arrested at the Water Wheel, were they not? To refresh your recollection, you personally arrested one of the suspects in the particular case and you didn't arrest her at the Water Wheel, did you? -46- C. C,, 2/16/65 Page Forty -Seven Mr,, Ryan: No, not actually at the Water Wheel, It was about --- actually this particular person had • left the area of the Water Wheel, the parking lot area, and we followed the subject's car about, I'd say possibly a block away in order to catch up with this person at which time subject was placed under arrest and returned to the Water Wheel but had been in the parking area which is a common parking area for other businesses,, Mr,, Cianchetti: That person was an employee of the Water Wheel at the time you made your arrest? Mr,, Ryan: Yes,, Mr, Cianchetti: As a matter of fact, charges were never filed against that person, were they? Mr,, Ryan: That is true,, Mr,, Cianchetti: Now, wouldn't it be more accurate to say your investigation centered around the bookmaker Rink as opposed to the premises, the Water Wheel? Mr. Ryan-, I didn't make the investigation,, Mr,, Cianchetti: The Sheriff's Department, were they the only officers involved in this investigation? • Mr,, Ryan: They made the investigation and myself and some of our officers assisted in the arrest and they handled the liason with the District Attorney's office,, Hr. Cianchetti: I see,, So you are testifying just as.to what someone may have told you about what happened inside the Water Wheel? Mr,, Ryan: Yes,, Mr,, Cianchetti; The person with respect to any bookmaking activity, the man that you have used the name "Rink", he was the man that had prior bookmaking activity, is that right? Mr,, Ryan: His arrest record shows he had,, Mr.,, Cianchetti; And as a matter of fact; weren't there in that same arrest weren't there two other persons arrested also in addition to the three that you have already named? Mr, Ryan: Yes,, Mr,, Cianchetti: And one of those was the owner of an establish- ment on Glendora Avenue, is that correct? • Mr,, Ryan: That is true,, Mr,, Cianchetti: And the other was his bartender? Mr,, Ryan: Correct, -47- C, C, 2/16165 Page Forty -Eight Mr, Cianchetti: Did the investigation indicate that actually .Rink had spent the bulk of his time in that particular place as opposed to the Water Wheel? Mr, Ryan: No. Mro Cianchetti: Do you know? Mr, Ryan: Not to my knowledge; no, Mro Cianchetti: Were you present at the hearing before the Alcoholic Beverage Control when Officer Jansen from the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Departemnt testified? Mr, Ryan: No. Mr. Cianchetti: Now9 Captain Ryan, did you participate in the decision to revoke or failure to renew the dance permit for the Water Wheel? Mro Ryan: No, Mro Cianchetti: I have no further questions, Mayor Snyder: Were there convictions on these bookmaking charges? • Mro Ryan: Yes, Councilman Snyder: How many? Mr, Ryan: As I recall there were three, Mayor Snyder: Three convictions of the three people you arrested? Mr, Ryan: Weil, there were a total -- some were at theWhee establishment. Of those five9ted three werewater convictedl' some in another Mr, Cianchetti: I think there were four convictions out of the five people who were arrested, to correct the record, Councilman Jett: Was there any evidence to the effect that this bookmaking was going on during the dancing period or in the dancing area? Mr, Ryan: Not to my knowledge, Councilman Krieger: You stated you did have an opinion as to it • es having to do with bookmaking attthissestablishment,knowledge ofthIsathatitrue? Mr, Ryan: That is true, Councilman Krieger: Was this opinion of yours based on anything else except your observations? Cv Co ' 2l16l65 Page Forty -Nine Mr, Ryan: Noo I think I have just about covered it, Councilman Krieger: More specifically, it was not arrived at in addition to any conversation you had with any persons about this activity? Mr, Ryan: Well, I --.are you speaking of investigative people or just people in general? Councilman Krieger: Chief Sill asked you specifically about a conversation with Mr. Jolly, I believe, I am asking you whether or not you had any conversations with anybody in the course of this investigation whereby Mr, Lotito's name was mentioned with reference to having any knowledge of these activities? Mr, Ryan: No, Councilman Heath: Were any of the owners of the Water Wheel members of the people ®® were any of the owners of the Water Wheel arrested or convicted in relation to this betting? Mr, Ryan: No, Councilman Heath: I have the further quesiton that Mr. Krieger asked, I believe you stated before you had seen a man reading a racing 'form in the establishment? • Mr, Ryan: That is correct, Councilman Heath: You saw no books,.no tickets being made out? Mr, Ryan: No tickets; not that I saw, no, Councilman Heath: Thank you, Mr, Cianchetti: Isn't it a fact that the sum total of the bookmaking activity which took place in the Water Wheel was the fact that Detective Jansen asked Jolly about Rink and Jolly gave Detective Jansen Rink's telephone number? Detective Jansen telephoned Rink, placed a bet and later gave Jolly the money to give to Rink? Isn't that the sum total of testimony with respect to any bookmaking activity in the Water Wheel? Mr, Ryan: No, Mr, Cianchetti: You add to it, then, Mr, Ryan: I wasn't there. I can only go by what information was in the report. There was other information in the report over and above what you are stating • here, Chief Sill: But there were five arrests and four convictions for bookmaking for your clarification, Mr, Mayor, Arrests were followed by convictions in this case, Mr, Ryan: I don't believe that ,is correct, -49- C. Co 2/16/65 Page Fifty Chief Sill: I am only going on what Mr. Cianchetti is saying,, MMr, Ryan: As I recall -- Mr. Cianchetti: I have been informed that perhaps I may have been in error; perhaps there were only three convictions, Mr, Terzian: Was Mr, Jolly convicted? Mr, Ryan: Yes, Mayor Snyder: Mr, Rink? Mr, Ryan: Yes, Mayor Snyder: But the female was not? Mr, Ryan: That's correct, There were no charges filed on her, Mr, Terzian: At the time Mr. Jolly was arrested on this charge he was employed by the Water Wheel as a bartender, to your knowledge? • Mr, Ryan: Yes, Mr, Terzian: Do you happen to know what hours he worked as a bartender at the Water Wheel? Mr, Ryan: Right now I don't recall, Councilman Heath: Was he on duty at the time that he was accused of making book? Mr, Ryan: I don't really know because like I stated I did not participate in that investigation, Mayor Snyder: Is there anything happening in this incident here that couldn't have happened in any other restaurant in this City? Mr, Ryan: I suppose it could have happened any place, Councilman Heath: It could have been done by patrons then, in Wheel and not necessarily essence it was done by patrons to the Water in connection with their employment at the Water Wheel? Mr, Ryan: Jolly was an employee of the Water Wheel, • Councilman Heath: But he wasn't on duty, was he? Mr, Ryan: I couldn't say. I didn't make the investi- gation. I can't answer that question, Chief Sill: I talked with one of the investigating officers by the name of Olson in this case who told me in his conversation with Jolly building up to this arrest that he had conversation with Jolly over the bar when Jolly.was in fact on duty, -50- L` C, CQ ' 2116%65 Page Fifty-O.ne Jolly was convicted, I think there is little doubt that he was actually engaged in bookmaking activities, Mr, Terzian: Was Mr. Jolly tending bar during the same hours of the cabaret dance? Mro_ Cianchetti, I will stipulate that -- no, wait a minute. During the hours the alleged bookmaking took place and during the time he,was arrested,, 'Not at the time any dancing was going on. Mro Terzian, Do you know whether or not Mr.. Jolly during the time, before, his arrest, when he was employed by the Water Wheel, whether or not he was tending bar at the Water Wheel during the hours between 6;00 P,M, and 1,45 A.M.? Chief Sill: I do.not know that; no, Councilman Krieger: Mr, Cianchetti, do'I understand you are. agreeing to stipulate to the fact that Mr. Jolly while engaged as a bartender engaged in bookmaking activities? Mr, Cianchetti: No, I am saying at the time of the alleged occurrences he was on duty at the time and also at the time he was arrested he was on duty at that time, working for Mr, Lotito? Mr, Ryan, do you know if Mr, Jolly is still Mr, Ryan, I don't know for certain. I don't believe he is, Mr, Cianchetti, You heard he was fired? Mr, Ryan: Yes, Mr, Cianchetti, And that occurred after the bookmaking incident, is that correct Captain Ryan? Mr, Ryan: I think it was quite some time after that, Mr, Cianchetti: You had a conversation with Carmen Lotito and James Lotito both relating to this type of activity, is that right? Mr, Ryan, I did but not with the two of them together, Mr., Cianchetti; Did you have a conversation with Carmen. the West Covina Police Lotito wherein he was requesting help of Department to keep Pinelli out of his place of establishment? • Mr, Ryan, I had two conversations with Mr, Carmen Lotito, Mr, Cianchetti: The first one, where did that occur? -51- C, Co 2/16/65 Page Fifty -Two Mr, Ryan: The first one occurred -- I don't recall exactly when but it was some period of time . after the bookmaking arrests. It was one evening. I was home and I received a call from the office stating that Mr, Carmen Lotito wanted to talk to me personally and it was very urgent. I met him a few doors south of the Water Wheel on this particular evening. I got into the car and we drove around the area and he stated that subject Pinelli was still coming into'the Water Wheel and generally speaking what he would do about it. The guy just wouldn't stay out and I told him that we would -- there was nothing we could'do unless he violated the law; that he was running his business and how he ran it was up to him and I told him we would talk to subject Pinelli's parole officer and advise him of some of the problems, most of which he was already aware of, and see what, if any, help we could give them. That was about the extent of that conversation, • • And after that conversation -- I couldn't recall how along after but one morning shortly afters I arrived at work, Shortly after 8:00 A.M. Mr. Carmen Lotito called the Police Department and again wanted to talk to me and I met him at the rear door of the bar which would be the south door of the bar, more of a service door, and we again discussed the same subject, Pinelli, and I told him there was nothing we could do unless he violated the law and if he needed any assistance at any time he shouldn't hesitate to call us and I told him we would contact his parole officer and that was about as much as we can do and that was about the sum and substance of that conversation, Mr. Cianchetti; At the time you testified at the A,B,C, hearing regarding Mr. Lotito's liquor license, is that correct? Mr, Ryan: Yes, Mr, Cianchetti: Do you recall making the statement with respect to the first conversation with Carmen Lotito, "I believe I told him it was his business and I thought possibly he had the right to serve whoever he pleased, I also told him we would contact his parole officer," Do you recall making that statement? Mr, Ryan: Yes, I do,, Mr, Cianchetti; I have no further questions, Councilman Nichols: Mr, Cianchetti, you raised the fact that the gentleman, Mr. Jolly, was terminated from his employemnt. Do you happen to have the information at hand to tell the Council how long.after his conviction? Mr, Cianchetti: I had intended to have Mr. Lotito testify to this. Councilman Nichols: All right, Chief Sill: I call Officer Bateman, -52- C7 • • C, Co 2/16/65 BEN L, BATEMAN Page Fifty -Three called as a witness in this matter was duly sworn and testified as follows: Mr, Terzian: State your name, occupation, and business address for.the record, please, Mro Bateman: Ben L. Bateman, Police Officer, City of West Covina, assigned to Patrol Division, 811 South Sunset, West Covina, Chief Sill: Ben, on May 19, 1964, you were -- you made the preliminary investigation of an assault with a deadly weapon case at the Water Wheel, is that right? Mr, Bateman: Yes, sir, Chief Sill: Would you relate for us what happened insofar as you remember it? Mr, Bateman: Approximately 2:25 A,M, that morning the station received an anonymous call about a man with a gun at Jim"s Water Wheel and stated "You had better get someone down there". I was in the station at the time the call came in, About 2:26 A,M, I arrived at Jim's Water Wheel, I pulled in behind Officer Collins and Reserve Officer McDonald, They had the three subjects, Mr, Lotito, Fred Jolly and Silva -- (Short recess) Chief Sill: Our stenotypist was beset by a severe cough so we will start all..over again, Mr, Bateman: About 2:25 A,M, on the day in question the station received a call. I was in the station at the time the call came in and responded to the location. About 2:26 A,M, I arrived, Upon my arrival I observed Officer Collins and Reserve Officer McDonald talking to Mr, Lotito, Fred Jolly and Silva. standing south of the main entrance to the restaurant portion of the establishment. Just north of the main entrance -on the edge. of the sidewalk I observed four subjects, two females and two males. I subsequently had conversation with Fred Jolly and Silva about the incident in the bar and found that apparently from their statements and the witnesses' statements that Fred.Jolly slapped Silva, Silva pulled a gun and stuck it underneath the table at one of the booths at Fred Jolly and these four witnesses, the four people standing north of the main entrance, had been seated just north of this booth where this incident;occurred 'and once seeing the gun immediately left the restaurant portion. I had conversation with both Fred Jolly and Silva in reference to the location of the gun. Silva denied having any gun, stated he had "none all evening, However, he was wearing a.holster on the right side, He produced identification, stated he was a police officer for the City of Irwindale, Jolly denied any incident had occurred stating to me he did not wish to press charges and for me to forget the whole incident. I had conversation with Mr. Lotito as to what had taken place and he stated he didn't know a thing, turned around and walked away; went back into the establishment, -53- Co C, 2/16/65 Page Fifty -Four I even checked Mr. Silva's care I talked to the four witnesses, two males and two females, and they all stated basically the same thing; that Silva had pulled a gun on Jolly in the restaurant establishment, That was basically my portion of the investigation, Mr, Cianchetti: As I understand it, the only contact -- first of all, let me ask you this: This was after any dance hours, is that right? Mr, Bateman: It was at 2225 A.M. The exact time of the incident I am only estimating was a few minutes prior to that, Mr, Gianchetti: And this was a fracas between an active Irwindale Police Officer and an ex Irwindale Police Officer, is that right? Mr, Bateman: Yes, sir, Mr, Cianchetti: And this took place in the coffee shop portion of the premises? Mr, Bateman: Yes, sir, Mr, Cianchetti: I have no further questions, • Mayor Snyder: Did you determine whether one of these four witnesses were the ones that called the police or did you ever know who called the Police Station? Mr, Bateman: To the best of my recollection none of these four are the ones calling the Police Station, I believe I asked them that question at the time and all four denied being the p4r-ty calling the station, Councilman Heath: Did you establish what table Jolly and the other man were sitting at? Mr, Bateman: Yes, sir, At the time this incident occurred there was a counter in the establishment, I understand there is none now, This is just north of the kitchen area and this booth was the first booth to the east end of that counter, There was a walkway from the end of the counter where„the waitresses came from the kitchen area with their orders to serve the booths and this was the first booth east, Councilman Heath: Where were the people sitting that could see this? Mr, Bateman: The booth opposite, next to the windows on the north side, • Chief Sill: We do log who calls the station if we can get their name, I don't recall if there was a name stated in this instance, Mr, Bateman: I believe it was an anonymous call, -54- 0 • • C, C6 2/16/65 Page Fifty -Five Councilman Heath: This was in the restaurant? Mr. Bateman: In the restaurant portion of the establishment. Councilman Heath:. No portion of this happened in the bar or the dance floor? Mr, Bateman: Not to my knowledge. GERALD Ko SCHNEIDER called as a witness in this matter was duly sworn and testified,as follows: Mr. Terzian: State your name, occupation and business address for the record, please, Mr a Schneider: Gerald Ka Schneider, assigned to the Detective Bureau, City of West Covina, Police Department. Chief Sill: His name is spelled S-c-h-n-e-i-d-e-r. You were the detective assigned to the follow-up on this episode between Silva and Jolly and the gun, is that correct? Mro Schneider: I was. Chief Sill: You heard where Officer Ben Bateman left off. Will you carry on as to your activity in this case? Mr. Schneider: As far as my conversation with Mr. Lotito? Chief Sill: The whole thing all the way through, Mr. Schneider: On May 20th9 1964 at approximately 2:30 P,M', myself and Detective Granat had a conversa- tion -- this was at the B. Jo Tavern on Foothill Boulevard, I believe in LaVerne or San Dimas, Jolly was the bartender at this establishment. We talked to him regarding the incident that had occurred on May 19 in which a gun was pulled against Jolly by Irwindale Officer Silva, He stated that -- Jolly stated that he and his -- a female companion were sitting in the restaurant portion of Jim's Water Wheel when Silva came ovEr in an intoxicated condition with a cup of coffee. There were no other seats in the restaurant area so Silva asked if he could sit down. Jolly stated "Okay" and after talking a while Silva was there for the main purpose that he just received -his sergeant's stripe back from the Irwindale Police Department which Jolly was supposedly to have taken away from him, The conversation occurred between him and Jolly in which then he started cussing Jolly out and he used profane language in the booth. Jolly told him to knock it off, that there was a. woman present. He kept it up so Jolly stated he reached across the booth and slapped Silva in the mouth with his open hand. He said the next thing he knew he did not see the gun come out of Silva's side but he knew a gun was under the table because he heard the hammer cock. He stated that he then started to more or less sw4et-talk Salva until he did give the gun to Jolly which he in turn handed to the female companion in the booth who placed it on her lap. She is supposed to be a private investigator. She did know how to uncock the gun, which -55- C, C. ' 2[16f65 Page Fifty -Six she did, Jolly stated that he then got up from the booth, went outside with. Silva, He later re-entered the Water Wheel, went up to Mr. Lotito's office where Jim Lotito handed him the gun which at that time there were no shells in it. Jolly stated he came back outside of the restaurant area and threw the unloaded gun into the back of Silva's car which they then locked up in the trunk, Chief Sill: Did you have any conversation with Jim Lotito with reference to the gun? Mr, Schneider: I did,. This was also on May 20, approximately 5:00 P.M, Myself and Detective Granat contacted Jim in the bar area of his location at the Water Wheel, We asked Jim what happened on the morning of May 19 and asked about the gun and he at that time stated he didn't know anything about the situation which had happened that day. We then asked him if he would like to go up to his office and talk about it and we then had a conversation in his office and he finally stated, "Well, I'll tell you the whole story" and he said he was in the bar area cleaning.up about 2:10 A,M, in the morning when a patron came in and stated that there was a man in the restaurant area with a gun. Jiro stated that he went out into the restaurant portion and at this time was either motioned over to the booth or was told to come over to the booth where Sharon Fisher was, She handed him the gun. He took it upstairs, took the shells. out of it and at this time Jolly came up and this was the last time he did see the gun. He stated he did not want to report this incident because at the time that this did happen he was under investigation -- not himself,. but Jolly, and the,.:establishment was under investigation for bookmaking, Chief Sill: Jim Lotito had previously told, according to this report, the investigating officer that he didn't see a thing? Mr, Schneider: From the report, I would say yes, Chief Sill: Now, when you talked with Fred Jolly on the 20th, you say you were in B. J,'s Tavern and that is located up on Foothill Boulevard in the San Dimas area? Who owns that bar? Mr, Schneider: To my knowledge, Mr, Lotito, Chief Sill: So that on May 20th, 1964 Fred Jolly was in the employ of -Mr, Lotito? Mr, Schneider: He was bartending there, yes, Chief Sill: And the bookmaking arrest took place on March 7, 1964? Mr, Schneider: Yes, • Chief Sill: So we have a period of better than two months following the arrest for bookmaking and Fred Jolly was still in the employ of Jim Lotito, Thank you, Mr, Cianchetti: Officer Schneider, preparation of the this case? did you assist in the supplemental report in -56- • C, C, 2/16/65 Page Fifty -Seven Mr., Schneider: Yes. • Mr, Cianchetti: Now, it is indicated in your report that Mr. Lotito disarmed the gun, took it upstairs and gave it to Jolly? Mr, Schneider: That is true, Mr, Cianchetti: Do you recall in your conversation with him the fact that he indicated to you he would be willing to testify if you wanted to call him as a witness? Mr, Schneider: It wasn't in the report but this was true, Mr, Cianchetti: In other words, it is not in the report but he did make the statement to you, is that right? Mr, Schneider: Yes, Mr, Cianchetti: Now, with respect to the statement, "I didn't see a thing", that wasn't made to you, was it? Mr, Schneider: At first he denied when he came into the bar -- he denied he knew anything about the gun, Mr, Cianchetti: Did he make the statement "I didn't see a thing"? Mr, Schneider: I don't recall, Mr, Cianchetti: Isn't that a statement he made to Officer Bateman? Mr, Schneider: I believe so, Mr, Cianchetti: And he didn't make that to either you or Detective Granat? Mr, Schneider: He stated he did not see the gun being pulled by Jolly or what happened and he knew nothing about the gun, Mr, Cianchetti: Now, with respect to the bookmaking activity, of bookmaking as do you know when those people were convicted opposed to being arrested? Mr, Schneider: I don't know anything about that, Mr, Cianchetti: Was .it sometime after May 19? Mr,'Schneider: I don't know, Mr, Cianchetti: Do you have occasion -- did you have occasion to go into the Water Wheel from time to time from roughly June of 1964 back to 1962? Mr, Schneider: Yes, Mr, Cianchetti: And had occasion to observe dancing going on in the dance portion of the premises? -57- C. C, ' 2/16/65 Page Fifty -Eight Mr, Schneider: Yes, • Mr, Cianchetti: In your experience do you recall any violations law of taking place while you were in there? Mr, Schneider: No, Mr, Cianchetti: I have no further questions, Mayor Snyder: You stated, I believe, Mr, Lotito -- a patron came into his office and said there was a man in the restaurant with a gun? Mr, Schneider: He was in the bar area cleaning up when and came into the bar a patron came saying there was from the restaurant portion a man with a gun, Mayor Snyder: Did he indicate to you before he went in there he called the police or did he say why he just walked into the restaurant area in the face of a gun without calling the police first or something? Did he appear to know who had. the gun before he walked in there? Mr, Schneider: Mayor Snyder: walk right into the room, for this? Mr. Schneider: i This seems a little odd that somebody came in and said there is a gun and that he would Did you attempt to arrive at an explanation No, Mr, Cianchetti: By the way, detective, there were several counts filed in this particular case against both Silva and Jolly, were there not? Mr, Schneider: Yes, Mr, Cianchetti: And including -- included in those counts was a violation of Section 417 of the Penal Code which is brandishing a gun and Section 415 which is disturbing the peace, is that right? Mr, Schneider: Yes, Mr, Cianchetti: Isn't it a fact that Silva plead guilty to 415 and not 417? Mr., Schneider: Yes, Mr, Cianchetti: I have no further questions, . Chief Sill: Isn't it true, detective, that many times when complaints are filed a jockeying between the District Attorney and the defense attorney occurs where in order to avoid a long and expensive trial the defendant will plead guilty to a lesser offense in order to wash the case out?, Mr, Schneider: Yes, Chief Sill: And that is what happened in this instance, wasn't it? Co C, ' 2[16/65 Mr, Schneider: . Mayor Snyder: Chief Sill: Mr, Terzian: Page Fifty -Nine I don't know, I don't think he should be required to make that opinion, I am only asking, If he has any knowledge if such a thing occurred he can testify to it, Mayor Snyder: If the case is washed out legally the man is not guilty and I think it is prejudicial to infer that he is guilty even though a case is not tried, Mr, Terzian: It is not necessary for a conviction, any conduct involved here to result in a conviction in order for it to be considered by this Council for the purpose of this hearing, Mayor Snyder: For the interest of the people involved, I think -- Chief Sill: I think it is important to know at least as part of our judicial system that this type of horse -trading goes on constantly between defense attorneys and the District Attorney's office and over the objection of police officers who have filed the cases and this is exactly what happened in this particular case, Mr, Terzian: Do you have any further questions, Chief Sill? Chief Sill: No, Mr, Terzian: Do you have any further witnesses to call? Chief Sill: No more, Mayor Snyder: Is there anybody else here whishing to present evidence or make a statement on this matter? Mr, Terzian: In support of the Chief's position, Mayor Snyder: If not, Mr. Cianchetti, you may proceed, Mr, Cianchetti: I would like to make a brief statement prior to any testimony put on, I can't emphasize this point too strongly. I refer to the sections of the Municipal Code governing this particular hearing, particularly as they are amended and that is that it would appear that the only -- with respect to a failure to renew and you can • equate it to a revocation -- that the controlling section is 411.3 which outlines A through I a number of different violations and I would appreciate it if the members of the Council would keep that particular section of the Code in mind at the time we put on our testimony, especially that it would appear to me the only testimony that we have with respect that could even remotely come close to constituting a violation of this thing would be Section A and so I would ask you to accept that particular subsection and keep it in mind at the time we put on our case, I will call Mr, Lotito first to the stand, -59- n C. C. 2/16/65 Page Sixty JAMES LOTITO • called as a witness in this matter was duly sworn and testified as follows: Mr. Terzian:_ Would you state your name, occupation, and business address for the record, please? Mr,, Lotito: James Lotito, 648 South Sunset, West Covina; owner -manager of Jim's Water Wheel. 827 South Gretta, West Covina, is my home address. Mr. Cianchetti: How long have you resided there? Mr. Lotito: Since 1954. Mr. Cianchetti: How long have you owned Jim's Water Whe I e Inn? Mr. Lotito: Since October, 1960,, Mr. Cianchetti: There was testimony with respect as when you first started dancing. Was that testimony correct? • Mr. Lotito: In 1961, Mr. Cianchetti: It was renewed in 1963? Mr. Lotito: Yes. Mr. Cianchetti: It was renewed in 1964? Mr. Lotito: Yes. Mr, Cianchetti: And you have made application with respect to a renewal for the calendar year 1965? Mr. Lotito: Yes. Mr. Cianchetti: Now, would you go on? Mr. Lotito: I went to the City Clerk's Office -- no. Mr.. Cianchetti: You went to the City Clerk's Office to make your application.? Mr. Lotito: West Covina Police Department. Mr. Cianchetti: Prior to going to the Police Department did you • go to the City Clerk's Office? Mr. Lotito: Yes. Mr. Cianchetti: Did you tender the fee required? Mr. Lotito: The fee wasn't accepted through the Police Department. U 0 C, Co 2/16/65 Page Sixty -One Mr, Cianchetti: Did the City Clerk's Office refer you to another office? Mr, Lotito; Just the Police'Department, Mr,, Cianchetti: When you went to the Police Department that is when you first learned they.would not renew your license? Mr, Lotito: That's correct, Mr, Cianchetti: Now, was a business license issued? Mr, Lotito: Yes, Mr. Cianchetti: That is, are you,operating on a business license which is good for 1965? Mr. Lotito: Yes, Mr, Cianchetti: How many persons do you currently employ at the Water Wheel? Mr, Lotito: Including the entertainment, 26, Mr, Cianchetti: Do any of those persons reside in the City of West Covina? Mr, Lotito: About a third of the 26, Mr, Cianchetti: If you can estimate for us based on your gross receipts for 1964 approximately what amount was paid to the City for sales tax? Mr, Lotito: $29000.00 yearly, Mr, Cianchetti: Going back to the year 1962, you first started dancing, is that correct? Mr, Lotito: Yes, Mr, Cianchetti: And you,have continued dancing up until this evening, is that correct? Mr, Lotito: Yes, Mr, Cianchetti: Has there been an increase in your business over the period of time from 1962 to 1964? Mr, Lotito: Yes, Mr, Cianchetti: Have you got an estimate or if you know more specifically what that increase has been? Mr, Lotito: I would say 65% of the sales has increased since I have had dancing, Mr, Cianchetti: Your business has increased by 650? Mr, Lotito: Yes. -61- CO C. 2116[65 Mr, Cianchetti.: 0 Mr. Lotito: Page•Sixty-Two Has that been in a gradual climb that 163 is better than 162, et cetera? Yes. Mr. Cianchetti: Now, directing your attention to -- you have had an opportunity to discuss in my office the requirements of Municipal Code Section 4112 as it.relates to the physical requirements that you must meet at your particular establish- ment? Mr., Lotito: Yes. Mr. Cianchetti: Now, directing your attention to the size of the dance floor, what is the size of the dance floor? Mr. Lotito: 322 square feet. Mr. Cianchetti: Is it mainly designated as a dancing area? Mr. Lotito: Yes. Mr. Cianchetti: In what manner is it so designated? Mr. Terzian: Perhaps I can save some time. The Chief is willing to stipulate that the physical requirements as set forth in Section 4112 of the Municipal Code have been complied with by this applicant. Mr. Cianchetti: Thank you very much. I will accept the stipulation. With respect to the time that dancing starts and finisheds what are the times that dancing actually takes place at your establishment? Mr. Lotito: The band starts at 9:15 to 1:45. Mr. Cianchetti: With respect -- I believe there has been testimony with respect to jam sessions at your place of business. Are you having them now? Mr.. Lotito: Now at the present time, no. Mr. Cianchetti: If you can recall, on what days of the week and over what period of time did you have jam sessions in your place of business? Mr. Lotito: Early Saturday mornings and Sunday mornings. They come in Friday night which would be Saturday morning. Mr. Cianchetti: And over what period of time? • Mr. Lotito: 163 and 064. Mr. Cianchetti: Did you cease having jam sessions? Mr. Lotito: Yes. -62- C� C, 2/16/65 Mr, Cianchetti: Mr o Lotito: Mr, Cianchetti: Mr. Lotito: Mr, Cianchetti: Mr., Lotito: Mr, Cianchetti: Mr. Lotito: Mr, Cianchetti: Page Sixty -Three When? December of 164, Why did you stop having jam sessions? It .seemed to create a problem between myself and the Police Department, Did you get information from some members of the Police Department that you should cut out your jam sessions? Yes. And you cut it out after you received that information? I cut it out a year later, maybe. I didn't cease it immediately, no. Were these complaints being made by the Police Department over an entire period of one year? Mr, Lotito: I don't believe.there were any complaints, I never received any, Mr, Cianchetti: In December of 1964 were you told by some member of the Police Department you should cut out dancing or cut out the" am session, rather? Mr, Lotito: No, Mr, Cianchetti: Have you ever received any communication from Chief Sill's office, a written communication or a. telephone call from Chief Sill or a written communication from Captain Ryan or any official member of the.Department indicating things were going wrong in your place? Mr, Lotito: No, Mr, Cianchetti: This is the first time you knew that your cabaret dance permit was not going to be renewed is when you applied for the renewal, is that correct? Mr, Lotito: Yes, Mr, Cianchetti: Now, Mr, Lotito, directing your attention to Section 4113 of the West Covina Municipal Code starting with subsection B. do you permit your employees to engage in dances with any other persons in your establishment? • Mr, Lotito: No, Mr, Cianchetti: Are there any persons who dance with persons of the same sex in your establishment? Mr., Lotito: No, -63- C, C, 2/16/65 Page Sixty -Four Mr, Cianchetti; Do you have any cabaret dancing between 1:45 A.M. and 6:00 P,M, of the following day? Mr, Lotito: No, Mr. Cianchetti: Do you operate your club as a private club between the hours of 1:45 A.M. and 6:00 P,M, of any day? Mr, Lotito: No, Mr, Cianchetti: As far as you know have there been any indecent performances during 1962, '63 or 164 in your place of business? Mr, Lotito: No, Mr, Cianchetti: Have you ever had any strip teasers in your place during those years? Mr, Lotito: No, Mr, Cianchetti: Do you allow any performers to impersonate a person of the opposite'sex while performing in your place of business? Mr, Lotito: We have had comedian's shows but I don't know if that would be considered impersonating the opposite sex, Mr, Cianchetti: Do you have any,B-girls working in your place -of business to your knowledge? Mr, Lotito; No, Mr, Cianchetti: Directing your attention to sub paragraph A. Disorderly Conduct, and I would like to read that: "No person in charge�'of or assisting in the conduct of a cabaret dance shall permit any person to enter into, to be in, or to remain in any place where such cabaret dance is conducted who is intoxicated, boisterous, or disorderly. No person in an intoxicated condition shall enter, be in or remain in a cabaret dance. No person shall conduct himself in a boisterous or disorderly manner in or at a.cabaret dance," Now, directing your attention to the period of time when dancing goes on in your place of business and taking.the first portion of that paragraph, "No person in charge of or assisting in the conduct of a cabaret dance shall permit any person to enter into, to be in or to remain in any place where such cabaret dance is conducted who is intoxicated, , ," to your knowledge have you ever permitted persons to remain in your place of business, that is where the cabaret dancing is going on, when they have been in an intoxicated condition? • Mr., Lotito: We have asked a number of people to leave in this condition, Mr, Cianchetti: Is it your policy that when a person gets intoxicated or at least you feel he is intoxicated that you, to coin a phrase, "86 him", you ask him to leave your place of business? -64- C. C. 2/16/65 Page Sixty -Five Mr. Lotito: Yes. Or we escort him to the coffee shop ourselves. It has been done many times. • Mr. Cianchetti: Directing you attention to February 19 1964 to your knowledge prior to the time that a 9 Mr. Kleid had any altercation with a Mr. Rink in your place of business was.he asked to leave because he was in an intoxicated condition? Mr. Lotito: Yes, he was. Mr. Cianchetti: Who asked him to leave? Mr. Lotito: The bartender, Bob Brown, Mr. Cianchetti: Is it your policy that if they become boisterous or disorderly you ask them to leave your premises? Mr. Lotito: Yes, Mr. Cianchetti: Are there instances in the course of operating your bar when you ask a person to leave your premises without calling the Police Department? Mr. Lotito: Yes. • Mr. Cianchetti: That is, do you.eall the Police Department every time you ask a person to leave your place of business? Mr. Lotito: It is impossible. Mr. Cianchetti: Chief Sill has testified that there are roughly somewhere between approximately 25 called -for services by'the Police Department in the calendar year 1964. Would you say there are -- that there are many more times in addition to these times when you have asked people to leave your place of business because they have been intoxicated or haven't conducted themselves properly? Mr. Lotito: Yes,, Mr. Cianchetti: Directing your attention to the person called Pinelli that there has been testimony,relating to conduct -.by him at your bar. At any time did you go to the Police Department or a member of the Police Department and request their assistance in keeping him out of your place of business? Mr. Lotito: At a later date I did. Mr. Cianchetti: After you found out what his record was? • Mr. Lotito: Quite some time, yes. Mr. Cianchetti: Did Penilli drink in your bar? Mr..Lotito: Very occasionally. He mainly ate breakfast there. -65- 1' C,,::C,, 2/16/65 Mr,, Cianchetti; • Mr,, Lotito: Mr,, Cianchetti; Mr,, Lotito: Page Sixty -Six i That is, he didn't have.too much to drink there, is that right? No, sir,, As far as you know was he ever in your bar? In an intoxicated condition? I have never seen him,, Mr,, Cianchetti: How about as far as the cabaret dance portion? Have you ever seen him boisterous or engaging in any kind of disorderly conduct? Mr,, Lotito: I haven't seen him, no, sir,, Mr. Cianchetti: Was it after -- did you ask him to stay out of your bar after this fracas with your waitress? Mr,, Lotito: Yes, Mr. Cianchetti: One of the victims in this assault was a waitress of yours? This assault with a deadly weapon -- and the other victom was her husband and the fight started in the restaurant portion and it went outside the bar and down • to your back door which leads into the bar portion, is that right? Mr,, Lotito: Yes, sir,, Mr, Cianchetti: And after that fight you asked him to leave, is that right? Mr. Lotito: The next day after the police -- it was a week later that he came in the restaurant again and I asked him not to come in again and he asked why and I said "I am in enough trouble with the local authorities around here" and I wished he didn't patronize my establishment and we .didn't see him for two,.three weeks and he started coming back again and that is when my father had trouble with him and that is when -- Mr,, Cianchetti: And that is when your father had his talk with Captain Ryan? Mr,, Lotito: Yes, Mr, Cianchetti: Before the assault with the deadly weapon Pineili in your pi incident had there been any instances involving ace of business as far as you can recall? Mr, Lotito: I think just one time he and his girlfriend •got in a fight. He just grabbed her, -by the wrist and took her outside. He may have hit her and her mother-in-law turned him in the next day, from what I gather,, Mr,, Cianchetti: That again happened in the coffee'-s--4�6-pq. Mr. Lotito: yes, C, C, 2/16/65 Page Sixty -Seven Mr, Cianchetti: Directing your attention to any bookmaking activity which has been alluded to in the • course of this hearing, have you yourself ever conducted any bookmaking activity in the Water Wheel? Mr. Lotito: No, sir. Mr. Cianchetti: Did you ever -- did you have knowledge of any bookmaking activity being conducted in the Water Wheel? Mr. Lotito: No, sir. Mr. Cianchetti; Was the first time you learged of any book- making activity -in the Water Wheel -- when was that? Mr. Lotito: The day of the arrest. Mr. Cianchetti: Do you recall the .approximate time that occurred? • U Mr. Lotito: I wasn't there at the time. It was around noon, I presume. I worked late that night and I was sleeping, Mr. Cianchetti: Fred Jolly was arrested in that particular arrest, is that right? Mr. Lotito: Yes. Mr. Cianchetti: Did you have a conversation with Jolly after his arrest? Mr. Lotito: Yes,, Mr. Cianchetti: Did he tell you he was guilty of bookmaking? Mr. Lotito: He told me he merely gave a phone number to this Sheriff that called ;this other fellow that the betting was going on. Mr. Cianchetti: Did he give you an indication as to whether he was going to plead innocent or guilty of this? Mr. Lotito: Mr. Cianchetti: Now, subsequent to the bookmaking arrest -- was Jolly working for you at the time he was arrested for bookmaking? Mr. Lotito: Yes. Mr, Cianchetti: Subsequent to that arrest did he continue working for you at the Water Wheel for a period of time? Mr..Lotito: Yes. I saw no reason to fire him just because he was arrested, He had a family to support. -67- C, C. ' 2/16/65 Page Sixty -Eight Mr, Cianchetti; Approtimately how long did you continue to • employ ,him? Mr, Lotito: I sent him,up to my other establishment to get him out of the wciy of the west Covina Police Department and he'worked up there for me until May and then I finally had to let him go after this other.incident happened, • Mr, Cianchetti: Mr, Lotito:. Mr.. Cianchetti: In other words. you discharged him after the. incident,; with . Silva in your coffee shop' is that right? Yes. I have no further questions, Mr. Terzian: Chief Sill,'do you have any questions of this ,witness? Chief Sill: Yes. You indicated that you knew that Jolly -- you'didn't know Jolly was making book in your establishment? Mr. Lotito: No, I didn't know this,, Chief Sill: That this had. -been going on for a period of time and you werre unaware of it? Mr; Lotito: That's correct, Chief Sill: You didn't discharge Jolly following his arrest because he had a family to support? Mr. Lotito: I know Fred for ten years and I saw no reason to fire him, Chief,Sill: All right,, But he was transfered to your other -- you put him to work at your other establishment in San Dimas? Mr, Lotito:. That's correct,, Chief Sill: You put him to work there? Mr. Lotito: Yes, Chief Sill: And you discharged him after the affair with Silva? Mr, Lotito: That's correct,, Chief Sill: How much after? Mr. Lotito: I really can't say. It was t#i end of May or the first week of June. Chief Sill:' ku If you were so perturbed about�°`-Fil��`s_�"�""` this happened on.May 19, why did you wait until the first of June? .: i • C, C; 2/16/65 Page Sixty -Nine Mr, Lotito: Because your men kept bothering -- because your friends kept bothering me about this so I let him goo Chief Sill: How did we bother him? Mr, Lotito: You kept coming in and asking questions and interrogating him, "Why don't you fire Fred? Fred's no-good",, Chief Sill: Who said that? Mr, Lotito: Your police'officerso Chief Sill: Which ones? Mr. Lotito: I am going to hold.their names,, Chief Sill: I want to know the names,, Mr, Lotito: Your whole police force then,, Chief Sill: Did I suggest you fire Fred Jolly? Mr ..Lotito: You indicated it through your men,, Chief Sill: I didn't indicate that at all,, • Mr. Terzian; Just confine yourself to the questions, please, Chief Sill: He has indicated that the whole Police Department said this and I challenge that, Mr, Terzian; You ask him to name any individual officers, .Chief Sill: I already have and he refused to do so, Mr, Terzian: I think you have made your point then, Chief, Chief Sill:. You say you told your attorney that we had never contacted you in regard to the operation of your establishment, is that correct? Mr. Lotito: That's correct, Chief Sill: Do you feel it is the business of the Police Department to tell you how to run your establishment? Mr, Lotito: No, I don't, Chief Sill: Then the Police Department was working properly by not telling you how to run your . place, is that correct? Mr, Lotito: That's correct, Mr, Cianchetti: I am going to object to that question, Mr, Terzian: You can object for the record, Just go ahead, Co C. ' 2/16/65 Page Seventy Mr. Cianchetti.: For the grounds it is not material or relevant • whether or not Lotito felt the Police Department was operating properly. Chief Sills In this business of law this is where you cut the sheep from the.goats, I can see that. To go back over this, I seem to be having some problems here. Why didn't you cooperate with the police officer at the time of the Silva - Jolly episode, gun episode? Mr. Lotito: One reason, I was afraid.. I was scared. Chief Sill: Afraid of what? Mr, Lotito: About that time I had a lot of problems and guess I wasn't at all. I thought I was doing Silva a favor and I . Chief Sills Actually, it wasn't Silva a favor, it was doing yourslef a disfavor, is that correct? Mr. Lotito: It turned out that way, yes. Chief Sill.: And -- Mr. Lotito-. I also offered to testify the following day aon behalf of the West Covina Police Department in court that I took the gun later. Chief Sill: You could have given the officer that informa- tion that night, couldn't you? Mr. Lotito: I was scared. Chief Sill: Is that any reason to not relate information to the,p©lice officer? Mr. Lotito: From my point of view at that time it was. Mayor Snyder: I think this becomes argumentative. You might get to your point quicker by more direct questions. Chief Sill: I have all the statements of course that he has made to serve his own interest. Mr. Terzian: You can make that as an argument. Chief Sill: Well, I will pass it then. Mr. Cianchetti: Have you ever received any communication of •a where a police officer formal nature -- I -am not talking about is in your bar having a beer and discussing with you how you:'re conducting your bar -- any type of formal communication from the Police Department indicating anything was wrong in your place of business with respect to dancing? Mr. Lotito: No. -70- cc C', 2/16165 Page Seventy -One Mr,, Cianchetti: You refer to conversations that you -had you made the comment that the whole police is force -- you certainly didn't mean every member of the police force, did you? Mr, Lotito: No, I didn't,, Mr. Cianchetti: Certain persons from Chief Sill's Police Department or the Police Department that Mr. Sill is the Chief of came into your place of business and made comments to the fact you should .get rid of Jolly, is that right? Mr. Lotito: Yes. Mr. Cianchetti: Let me ask you this: Without dancing do you have any kind of a business there, assuming that this Council chooses not to renew your dance license -- would there be any kind of a business? Mr. Lotito: The time I lost my license for that weekend there was actually no business. I lost 90% of my business. Mr. Cianchetti: Do you:recall how many patrons you served the particular weekend you did not have dancing? Mr. Lotito: I know I cut the crew down to one bartender and two waitresses, Usually I have three bartenders and four waitresses. I don't know about the patrons. Chief Sill: Do you think your bar is one of the best run in town? Mr. Lotito: How do you mean that? Chief Sill: From the standpoint of what we have been talking about, police calls for service? Mr. Lotito: Yes. Chief Sill: On what do you base this? Mr. Cianchetti: I am going to object to the question. I think it is argumentative and has no relevancy. Chief Sill: I disagree. He brought up other places -- Mr,, Terzian: Mr. Lotito can answer the question to the extent that he is able to. Mr, Lotito: I gather from the number of people we serve and the number of people coming back that they enjoy coming from the Water Wheel and from comments from -- from the people I am in contact with the people -- the Water Wheel is well enjoyed by people from the whole San Gabriel Valley and on these jam sessions, they were merely a way of having breakfast and having other musicians coming in from other clubs and performing and this was very profitable. -71- r Co C. 2/16/6S Chief Sill: Mr,, Cianchetti: Councilman Nichols: Mr. Lotito: Councilman Nichols. - Mr. Lotito: Page Seventy-two I have no further questions. I have no further questions. What is the address of your restaurant? 648 South Sunset. Is the.bar the same address? Yes. Councilman Nichols: You have stated on occasion that you have escorted people who were obviously inebriated from the bar into the coffee shop to get them out of the dance area. Mr. Lotito: The turn -over in the bar business is terrific and if we refuse to serve them we call a cab for them. You can check with the cab company how many times I have called for them or we take them to the coffee shop and let them have ®ffee. Councilman Nichols: Isn't the coffee shop a public place also? Mr. Lotito: Yes. • Councilman Nichols: Isn't it against the law to be drunk in a public place? Mr. Lotito: I don't know. Mayor Snyder: Do you serve food in the bar, too? Mr. Lotito: Up until nine we do. Mayor Snyder: When you obtain this dance permit you are aware this is for a year? Mr. Lotito: Yes, Mayor Snyder: Are you aware when you obtain this dance permit -- were you aware of the section ennumerated under 41139 Disorderly Conduct, et cetera, that if these should occur this is grounds for revocation? Were you made aware of this? Mr. Lotito: I have tried my best if any ruckus has happened. Mayor Snyder: Were you made aware of that section when you obtained your dance permit? • Mr. Lotito: Yes, sir. Mayor Snyder: You were aware that if continued disorderly conduct occurred or any of these other things occurred this would be grounds for revocation? Mr. Lotito: Yes. -72- C; Co 2/16/65 Page Seventy: -Three Mayor Snyder: The point is, in effect, the Police Department did inform you since you were aware if it is true that this,did occur. Mr. Lotito: How do you mean "inform" me?. Mayor Snyder: Inform you of the grounds or revocation of a license. Mr. Lotito: (No response.) Councilman Krieger: Mr. Lotito, you are the owner of this establishment? Mr. Lotito: Myself, my mother and father. Councilman Krieger: Are you the,sole manager of this establishment? Mr. Lotito: Yes,, Councilman Krieger; Is this a full-time occupation for you? Mr Lotito: Yes; Councilman Krieger: Seven days a week? Mr. Lotito: Yes,-.. • Councilman Krieger: Are you present customarily ever evening g at the premises? Mr. Lotito: Just about. Councilman Krieger: From what to what? Mr. Lotito:. No set hours. I am in and outo Councilman Krieger: You are in and.out during the course of the evening? Mr. Lotito: Yes, Councilman Krieger: You also run the San Dimas establishment? Mr. Lotito: That is managed. Councilman Krieger; You have nothing to do with the day-to-day operations there? Mr. Lotito: No. Councilman Krieger: At any time since February of 1962 has your • dance permit been revoked? Mr. Lotito: No, Councilman Krieger: Have you been present 'his evening and have as to the incidents that heard the recitation by the Chief of Police have occurred at your establishment the permit was originally since granted? -73- C. C. 2/16165 Mr. Lotito: Yes. Page Seventy -Four Councilman Krieger: Was your testimony on examination.by your attorney that there were additional.ineidents that were never reported to the police during this period? Mr. Lotito: I don't know what they would be. If someone started an argument -- an argument if you can break it up without calling the police it is to their advantage as well as to mine.. Councilman Krieger: I understood you felt that it was ridiculous to call the police other than on occasion where there is any difficulty at your place? Mr. Lotito: The Police Department was not -- they were in'the coffee shop on their lunch breaks constantly and half of these incidents happened there was -- there was always an officer on the spot. Councilman Krieger: On each and every other application where you have made an application for your permit it.has been renewed up' -until this time? Mr. Lotito: Yes, sir. Councilman Krieger: You had no information whatever of this action by the, Police Department at all? Mr. Lotito: No, sir. Councilman Krieger: Yet you say to your knowledge -- you do have knowledge as to the types of incidents that were happening at your establishment during the year 1964? Mr.. Lotito: When I am there and if anything happens I am informed of it immediately. Councilman Krieger: You make it your business to be informed about what happens at your place, don't you? Mr.. Lotito: Yes, sir. Councilman Krieger: This is the same as your testimony as to the type of conduct that customarily takes place at your establishment having to do with employee dancing, social dancing, hours, indecent performance, you know about all these activities or the lack of these activities? Mr. Lotito: Yes, sir. Councilman Krieger: So the same way you knew about these other • activities that took place or had to do with your establishment? Mr. Lotito: Yes. Councilman Krieger: Why do you think the Police Chief refused to renew your permit? -74- A , ` I) CO C, 2/16/65 0 Page Seventy -Five Mr, Lotito: According to his statement too much police protection was rendered by the Department in 1964 to Jim's Water Wheel Inn, Councilman. Krieger: Too many service calls? Mr,, Lotito: That's righto Councilman Krieger: Do you disagree? Mr. Lotito: How much is too much? Councilman Krieger: In.your opinion how much is too much? Mr. Cianchetti: I will object to the, form -of the question? Councilman Krieger: Your objection is noted,, How much is too much? Hr. Lotito: How many soldiers are killed in a war? I can't answer that question,, Councilman Krieger: Do you feel you'have enough -- full control over your establishment, Mr,, Lotito? Mr, Lotito: I do,, Councilman Krieger: And the people that come in there? Mro Lotito: Not over the people,, They are individuals,, Councilman Krieger: If there is any disorderly conduct you are able to handle it in your opinion? Mr, Lotito: Yes, sir,, Councilman Krieger: And escort them out, if necessary? Mr,,,Lotito: Yes, sir,, Councilman Krieger: Do you have any reason ,to be afraid of the patrons that frequent your establishment? Mr, Lotito: No, sir,, Councilman Krieger: Not Mr, Jolly?r: Mr, Lotito: No, sir,, Councilman Krieger: Mr,, Silva? Mr. Lotito: No, sir,, Councilman Krieger: How about this other gentleman we have had some testimony concerning -- your father's conversation with Captain Ryan? Where you were concereed about his presence in your establishment,, Why were you so concerned? Mr, Lotito: Because I was told to keep him out for further trouble so I tried to keep him out by asking him not to come in. When he refused to stay out and I asked the Police Department what to do about it -- my father has -- -75- C, C, 2/16/65 Page Seventy -Six Councilman Krieger: Is it your testimony that the Police Department ,are, in fact, injecting themselves in the • management and operation of your business? Mr, Lotito: That seems to be the point, Councilman Krieger: How long has that been going on? Mr, Lotito: I couldn,'t say, Councilman Krieger: But you say it has been going on? Mr Lotito: Apparently was thrown.in_my face within the last few months, Councilman Krieger: The last few months being the period of time in which the renewel -- Mr. Lotito: The topless bathing suit started, Councilman Krieger: You think that was the reason for the denial? Mr, Lotito. I don't know, Councilman Krieger: Was it ever stated to be the.reason for the denial of the permit? Mr, Lotito„ No, Councilman Krieger: Were any other reasons stated to you as reason for denial except the number of police calls required to service your Oztablishment? Mr, Lotito: Not to my knowledge, Councilman Krieger: Is it your opinion that the Police Department - of West Covina have it in for you? Mr, Lotito: It seems to be that way, In my opinion, yes, Councilman Krieger: Is there any reason for that, in your opinion? Mr, Lotito: If a police car is in front of my establish- ment every 15 mintues there must be something wrong, If they don't want to give me service and yet they are still there and this has happened .a number of times -- Councilman Krieger: We have a number of instnaces where..they have given you service, Is there any other reason for the presence of those police cars at your establishment except to service your establishment? • Mr, Lotito: They are only a few blocks from my establish- ment and they pass that way on the route to other areas, Councilman Krieger: This is part of their routine? Mr, Lotito: It might be, I don't know, -7 6- Co Co 211616S Page Seventy -Seven Councilman Krieger: Don't you welcome police participation or protection? • Mrs Cianchetti: I will object to the whole line of questionings I don't think it is material or relevant to the purpose of this hearing and that'is whether or not Mro Lotito's dance permit should be granted or whether this Council should refuse to grant it, I don't think any of your questions as far as his relationship with the Police Department have any bearing on this particular Councilman Krieger: If I remember your client's testimony he is the one that raised the point,, I am just pursuing it,, Mr, Terzian: You may proceed with the questioning,, The objection is noted for the record, Councilman Krieger: I have nothing further, Thank you, Mayor Snyder: During the last year according to the police report a number.of incidents jumped sharply. Were you aware that you were having more incidents during 1964? Mr, Lotito: It just seemed that the hole in the bucket got bigger, T wasn't aware of it, Mayor Snyder: As manager did you take steps to correct this situation? Mr, Lotito: I thought I did, Mayor Snyder: Did you take definite steps to correct the situation? Mr, Lotito: Well, I opened my eyes a little wider, if that is what you mean, I spent more time in the establishment and I try to have my help cooperate much much more than they are capable, Mr, Terzian: Mr, Lotito, I have one question to clear up one matter. When did you hire Jolly? If you recall, Mr, Lotito: I hired him numerous,times as I have other police officers to work on the door, Mr, Terzian: When you first started? Mr, Lotito: When I first opened up in.161, He was on the Police Department and worked off and on, Mr, Terzian: The last time he worked for you was in May . '64? Mr, Lotito,: Yes, Mr, Terzian: Did he ever work for you as a bartender? Mr,, Lotito: Maybe six months; after he quit the Irwindale Police Department, -77- Co Co ' 2/16165 Page Seventy -Eight Mr. Terzian: And he also worked for you as a bouncer? • Mr. Lotito: Earlier while he was a policeman. Mr o Terzian: During the hours he worked -- what hours did he 'work for you? Mr. Lotito: At what time? Mr. Terzian: At any time during the course of employment. Mr. Lotito: Since 1961' he;worked Fridays and Saturdays from the hours of.nine until three in the morning and then when he later quit the Irwindale Police Department -- I don't know the date -- he and another Covina police officer bought a bar in Los Angeles and according to A.B.C, ruling they couldn't own the bar because they had been police officers and then I_ hired him three weeks after he closed the other bar. Mr. Terzian: Did he work the evening hours? Mr. Lotito: No. He worked ten to six in the daytime. Mr. Terzian: I have no other questions. Mr. Cianchetti: I would like to ask Mr. Lotito -- directing your attention to one of the 1964 incidents, .the suspicion of rape., did you know anybody had been raped on your premises? Mr. Lotito: No, sir. Mr. Cianchetti: Directing your attention to the 2/15/64 incident, a petty theft, did you know anyone -- any items had been stolen from your premises? Mr. Lotito: Not to my knowledge. Mr. Cianchetti: On 3/22/64, another 484, petty theft, did you know items had been stolen? Mr. Lotito: Sometimes a purse is mislaid, lost or picked up by somebody. They have come to me and I have tried my, best to locate it and other times I have never heard about anybody losing their purses. Mr. Cianchetti: There are one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven incidents where arrests were made during the year 1964 in -- it is described as a called -for service at your place. Now, in all of those instances did the Police Department come to you.and ask you for state- ments with reference to conduct by the persons being arrested? Mr. Lotito: Not all of them. Mr. Cianchetti: In some of those instances did you find out a few days later? Mr. Lotito: That's correct. C, C, ' 211616S Page Seventy -Nine Mr, Cianchetti: There are one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen incidents when no arrests were made. On those cases . did the Police Department come to you and inform you that something had gone wrong in your place? Mr. Lotito: No., sir, Mr., Cianchetti: Did you find out about some of those incidents at some later time? Mr, Lotito: I still don't know what they are, Mr, Cianchetti: With respect to some of these incidents or at least the A,B,C, hearing which took place several weeks ago, with respect to some of these instances which are - indicated here in Chief Sill's report the first time you found out about them was either this evening or at the A,B,C, hearing, is that correct? Mr, Lotito: That"s correct, Mr, Cianchetti: I have no further questions. Chief Sill: You say you hired a number of off-duty.police- men to act as you call.them bouncers? Mr, Lotito: Doormen, Chief Sill: Were any of these poeople you hired active members of the West Covina Police Department? Mr, Lotito: Yes, Chief Sill: Who were they? Mr, Lotito: Donald Goddard, He was a sergeant at the time, Chief Sill: Any others? Mr, Lotito: No, sir, Chief Sill: Did you, in fact, hire Marvin Danio -- Voice: I wasn't a police officer, Chief, Mayor Snyder: Limit the conversation to the participants, Chief Sill: How long did you have Donald Goddard working for you? Mr, Lotito: He worked Christmas Eve with Chief Bramer • from the Irwindale Police Department; one occasion, Chief Sill: How many other occasions did he work for you? Mr, Lotito: Just that once, -79- C. C. 2116l65 Page Eighty Chief Sill: What did you pay him for those services? . Councilman Heath: Is this related? Mayor Snyder: I think so. Councilman Heath: I think this is bringing out information concerning a man and his duties and I don't think it is related to the dance permit,, - Mr. Terzian: I think it is reasonably related to the conduct, et cetera, Chief Sill: 'I have no further questions. Mayor Snyder: What day was that? Mr. Lotito: New Year°s Eve of 1962. He may have forgotten that. He was paid $3.00 an hour. Mr. Terzian: If there are no further questions of this witness, you may step down. (Reces's. ) Mr. Cianchetti: At this time I would like to call Mr. Devro, • Bill Devro to the stand. BILLY DEVRO called as a witness in this matter was sworn and testified as follows: Mr. Terzian: State your name, occupation and business address for the record, please. Mr. Devro: Billy Devro, orchestra leader at the Water Wheel, Mr. Cianchetti: State your home address. Mr. Devro: 2414 Arrano Drive, Los Angeles. Mr. Cianchetti: Directing your attention to your occupation, as I understand it you are the band leader of the band playing at the Water Wheel? Mr. Devro: Yes, sir. Mr. Cianchetti: How long have you been so employed? Mr. Devro: Two years, eight months. Mr. Cianchetti: And has it been continuous employment? Mr. Devro: Yes, sir. Co C. 2/16/6S Mr. Cianchetti: • Mr, Devro: Mr, Cianchetti: i j Page Eighty -One A 1 You are not there seven days a week? Five nights, You start at one time and finish approximately what time? Mr. Devro, 9:15 to 1:45, Mr, Cianchetti: Direction your attention to the year 1964, Mr, Devro, do you recall any instances or disorderly conduct or boitterous conduct of people obviously intoxi- cated in or about the area of the dance floor? Mr, Devro: Not to my knowledge, Mr, Cianchetti: Prior to the time that you went to work at. the Water Wheel you have been employed as a band leader at other places, is that correct? Mr, Devro: Yes,.sir, Mr, Cianchetti: One being the Pioneer Restaurant in El Monte, is that correct?. Mr, Devro, Yes, sir, Mr, Cianchetti: How long were you so employed there? Mr, Devro: Five years, Mr., Cianchetti; Would you say the number of instances that place -- did that place have a cabaret dance permit? Mr, Devro: Entertainment only, Chief Sill: I object, We are talking about two different cities, They are not quite the same, Mr, Terzian: It is for whatever it is worth. I think the Council recognizes the fact it is two different cities and two different -- completely different establish- ments,. He may ask the question and get an answer, Mr, Cianchetti: Was there dancing there at the time you were playing there? Mr, Devro: No, sir, Mr, Cianchetti: I will withdraw the question, With respect to the two years or almost three years you have been working at the Water Wheel would you say that to the extent that you have seen any fracases there, would you say that they were during the jam session period or during the dance session period? Mr. Devro: 90% during the jam session period, Mr, Cianchetti: And you played at the jam sessions, also? Sam ,tr C, CO 2116/65 Page Eighty -Two Mr, Devro: That's right. • MrQ Cianchetti: Were those always people who had been in the Water Wheel prior to 2:00 A,M, in the morning? Mr, Devro: When two o'clock came around we would have about a dozen people from our regular customers, The rest would be other clubs, Mr, Cianchetti: And in some instances were the people causing disturbances people coming from other clubs? Mr, Devro: Right, Mr, Cianchetti: Now, since the jam sessions have stopped in any instances in the December to your knowledge have there been Water Wheel where there have been disorderly conduct on the part of -- Mr, Devro: No, sir, Mr, Cianchetti: I have no more questions, Chief Sill-. What do you do for a living, Mr, Devro? Mr, Devro: I am an orchestra leader, 40 Chief Sill: Do you do that during the daytime, too? Mr, Devro: During the daytime I am an agent, Chief Sill: What kind of an agent? Mr, Devro: Theatrical agent, Chief Sill: That's all, Mr, Terzian: You may leave the stand, sir, Mayor Snyder: I do have one question. During the time as . a dance leader did you ever observe any of the employees of Jim's Water Wheel to escort a disorderly person from the bar? Mr, Devro: The woman who works on the door on Friday and Saturday night has handled the situation very adequately, has kept most of them out and with the ones that there were any problems with she took into the coffee shop, Mr, Terzian: The question was did you ever observe any person being escorted from the bar?' 0 Mr, Devro: Quite often, Yes, sir, Mayor Snyder: Did I misunderstand you to say earlier that you never observed a disorderly or intoxicated person during the time? Mr,,Devro: No, We are referring to fights or people who are intoxicated? Which one? -82- C. C, 2/16/65 Councilman Nichols: • Mr,, Devro: Councilman Nichols: Page Eighty -Three I perhaps misunderstood the earlier question,, Have you observed a person being escorted out with just plain drunk? Yes. Or improperly dressed,, t Improperly dressed? Mr,, Devro: If they are improperly dressed they are not allowed'in, Councilman Kreiger: Were you restricting your comments to the last month? Mr,, Devro: No, sir, Councilman Krieger: I'understood your testimony was to the last two years and eight months,, Mr,, Devro: That's correct,, Councilman Krieger:., And your testimony was you did not observe any boisterous conduct? Mr. Devro: I didn't say that,, Councilman Krieger: You said no fights,, Mr. Devro: Since the jam sessions were discontinued I said there hasn't been,any disturbances since that time,, Councilman Krieger: And the jam sessions were discontinnued when? Mr,, Devro: Approximately last Christmas time,, Councilman Krieger: I see,, Chief Sill: Were you so employed in February of 1964? Mr, Devro: Yes, sir,, Chief Sill: And you heard the fireman here, Bob Kleid, testify that he had been hit at the bar and you were a witness to this incident? Mr, Devro: He said this happened at eight o'clock and we start at 9:15, Chief Sill: He talked to some members of your orchestra and wanted to buy you a drink so I assume you or some members of your group were there,, Mr,, Devro: I never recall having seen this man before, Chief Sill: That's all, Mr, Cianchetti: You say ®® is there a restriction that is placed on persons coming into the Water Wheel with respect to the type of dress? Co C, 2/16/65 Mr. Devro: • Mr, Cianchetti: Mr, Devro: • Page Eighty -Four There is a sign posted in the doorway and it is enforced, Can persons come in there in levis? No, Mr, Cianchetti; Dressed in T-shirts? Mr, Devro; No, sir, Chief Sill: How about topless bathing suits? Mr, Cianchetti: Excuse me just a minute. I object, Can they wear shorts in coming in there or be barefoot? Mr, Devro: No shorts, Barefoot on the dance floor, I imagine they could if doing a fast number. I donet believe they can walk in the door that way but I imagine they can take their shoes off, Councilman Krieger: What does the sign say, just out of curiousity? Mr, Devro: After 7:00 P,M, no levis, work clothes, leather jackets or improper dress, That may not be exact but this is the substance, MIKE CIANCIOLA called as a witness in this matter was duly sworn and testified as follows: Mr, Terzian: State your name and occupation for the record, Mr, Cianciola: Mike Cianciola, C-i-a-n-c-i-o-l-a, Mr, Cianchetti: What is your home address? Mr. Cianciola: 3653 Bender Avenue, Covina, Mr, Cianchetti: Rather than call you Mr, Cianciola, I will refer to you as Mike, You are a -- you are employed as a bartender at the Water Wheel? Mr, Cianciola: Yes, sir, Mr, Cianchetti: How long have you been so employed, Mr, Cianciola: Since late March of 1964, Mr, Cianchetti: Late March of 1964? Mr, Cianciola: Yes, sir, Mr, Cianchetti: Just short of a year, is that right? Mr, Cianciola: That's correct, C, Co 2116i65 Page Eighty -Five Mr,, Cianchetti: During that period of time have you been working on a rotating shift basis? Some- times working in the daytime; sometimes working in the evening hours? Mr, Cianciola: I work one day a week and four nights. Mro Cianchetti: I see. So that you are there during four nights a week when dancing is going on at the establishment, is that right? Mr. Cianciola: That is right, Yes, sir, Mr, Cianchetti: How many instances of fights can you recall during the period of time that you have been working as a bartender at the Water Wheel? Mr, Cianciola: Not one, Mr. Cianchetti: Have there been any disturbances that you can recall? Mr, Cianciola: They have never got out of hand, Mr, Cianchetti: Do you recall any conversation you had earlier with me with respect to an attorney in this community? • Mr, Cianciola: Oh -- in the early afternoon; yes, Mr, Cianchetti: Did you see him doing something? Mr. Cianciola: Yes, He had a knife, .Mr, Cianchetti: What did you do? Mr, Cianciola: I told Mr. Lotito to call the police, Mr. Cianchetti: If you saw someone with a weapon of some type would that be your normal type of conduct? Mr, Cianciola: I would like to feel free to call the police, yes, Mr, Cianchetti: Your testimony is that with respect to a fight or conduct of that type that you can°t recall one single instance during the length of time you have been working there as a bartender? Mr, Cianciola: Not one, Chief Sill: Are you afraid of the police? • Mr, Cianciola: I am not afraid of the police, Mr, Cianchetti: You said you would like to be free to call a 1 them any time, Mr, Cianciola: I am just going by this here hearing that every time you do call that it is a mark against you and I can't see where it should be, IBM C. C. 2/16/65 Page Eighty -Six Mr. Cianchetti: Of course this is beyond the realm of your -- • Mr. Cianciola: I.have always felt free to call the police and I would like to feel that way in the future. Chief Sill: The number of times you have seen the police officers -at the place have you always been able to talk to them? Mr. Cianciola: Yes. Chief Sill: And get along fine with them? Mr. Cianciola: Yes. Chief Sill: You don't feel that they are abusing your or your establishment by any stretch of the imagination? Mr. Cianciola: No. Chief Sill: Always gentlemen? Mr. Cianciola: Yes. Chief Sill: Conduct themselves properly? • Mr. Cianciola: Yes, sir. Chief Sill: No further questions. Mr. Cianchetti: I have no further questions. Mayor Snyder: Were you there with the incident involving Mr. Kleid? Mr. Cianciola: I have never seen Mr. Kleid before. Chief Sill: Kleid's incident was on February 19th, He came to work in the latter part of March. Mr. Terzian: You may step down, Mr. Cianciola, Mr. Cianchetti: I would like to call Mr. Phil McKay. He will be my last witness and it will be a, very short questioning, PHILIP J. McKAY called as a witness in this matter was duly sworn and testified as follows: • Mr. Cianchetti: State your name for the record. Mr. McKay: Philip J. McKay, Mr. Cianchetti: What is your home address? CP C, 2/16/65 Page Eighty -Seven Mr. McKay: 3228 East Holt Avenue, West Covina. I have been here approximately 19 years, • Mr, Cianchetti: Are you employed as a bartender by Mr, Lotito? Mr, McKay: I work for Mr, Lotito part-time, Mra Cianchetti: Had you been working for him in the Water Wheel for a period of time? Mr, McKay: I worked for him full-time, I worked from -- I work from approximately October, 1963 until May 4, 1964 at a full-time basis, Mr, Cianchetti: Were you there when dancing was taking place during the evening hours? Mr. McKay: yes, Mr, Cianchetti: How many instances of disorderly conduct -- Mr, McKay: I can recall none that got out of hand, Mr, Cianchetti: When you mean get out of hand, what do you mean? An argument starts? • Mr, McKay: Arguments and something we can handle ourselves, Mr, Cianchetti: Do you recall any instances where police officers came into the establishment -- into the bar portion and talked to you with respect to any fight or anything of that type that went on at the Water Wheel? Mr, McKay: No, sir, They never talked to me in an on -duty capacity, Mr, Cianchetti: I have no further questions, Chief Sill: How old are you, Mr, McKay? Mr, McKay: I am 25, Chief Sill: How long have you been working -- when did you first start working for Mr. Lotito as a bartender? Mr, McKay: I started working for him approximately October of 1963 until May last of 1964. That is on a full-time basis, Chief Sill: But you have worked part-time? • Mr, McKay: Chief Sill: Mr, McKay: I work part-time every once in a while for him now, Am I correct in assuming this is a 24-hour establishment with reference to the coffee shop? That is true, • • C, C, 2/16/65 Page Eighty -Eight Chief Sill; What time does the bar open? Mr, McKay: 'The bar opens six days a week at ten o'clock and on Sundays at noon,, Chief Sill: In other words, it is opened -- the bar is open 14 hours a day except on Sunday when it is open only 12? Mr. -McKay: Yes, sir,, Chief Sill; You are not there all of this time, are you? Mr,, McKay: No, sir,, Chief Sill: You really can't say what happens when you are not there, can you? Mr, McKay: I believe Mr. Cianchetti asked me what happened while I was there. I stated I had not seen anything that had .gotten out of hand while I was there, Chief Sill: That is very good, but you don't really know when the period of time you are not employed there, you don't know if this is the -- if there is any disorderly conduct going on there or not, do you? Mr. McKay: No, sir, I don't,, Mr, Cianchetti: That is all I have,, We have no further testimony at this time,, Mayor Snyder: Is there anybody else here wishing to give testimony in support of Mr. Lotito's position? If not -- Mr, Terzian: Chief Sill, do you have any additional witnesses or testimony or evidence to present? Chief Sill: No,, Mr, Terzian: At this time both Chief Sill and Mr. Cianchetti can make any kind of final argument they wish, summarize the facts, what -have -you, Mayor Snyder: I think both of you have made your arguments quite clearly and unless you have something new, let's make it brief, Chief Sill: I would like to summarize, if I could, some of the things we have presented here, That this place has been in operation for cabaret dancing since February, 1962 and from that time on within less than three years over 40 calls were made for police service concerning incidents occurring between 7:00 P.M. and 3:00 A,M,, essentially around the same time as the cabaret dance. More than half the calls were during the year 1964,, This indicates there is an increase of activities requiring police attention. Of these calls there were approximately 15 arrests in 10 separate instances, Cv C, 2/16/65 Page Eighty -Nine Persons closely connected with the establish- ment during the time of its -operation of the dance were involved in . concealing deadly weapons And bookmaking,, It is probably a gathering place for people trying to pick up women as the number of fights over their attentions would indicate,, It is a gathering place of unsavory types as the Jolly incident would indicate. The licensee himself has indicated a contemptu- ous and uncooperative attitude toward law enforcement authorities and this is born out by -®,he admittedly stated that he didn't cooperate with the police on the gun incident because he was afraid and then, of course, he didn't know why he was afraid. He had no reason to fear the police department And here bar and caused damage where he had and he was denied any kind of help for him or help him out,, we have Kleid who was hit in the to seek the attention of a doctor and -no one would call the police The operation of the place just in the first half of 1964 has already resulted in an A.B.C. accusation on which the hearing was held and a decision is now pending. No other place in.the City with a cabaret dance permit has required anywhere near the same number of calls or had the same number of arrests as this place,, • The attitude of the licensee is apparent inability to maintain an orderly premises for cabaret dances has made the establishment a real police problem,, Also, I note in going over these incidents here that when he first started in 1962 we had good response as far as cooperation from this location,, One other thing I would like to state is that a cabaret dance permit as indicated by our ordinance is a privilege and not a right; it is a lot like a driver's license. You apply for an operator's license and it is given to you providing you pass the examination and it may be taken away from you if you have so many moving violations or if you become involved in an accident. The same thing is true with this, I think the case we have put forth here this evening indicates that this man cannot properly run an establishment of this kind without seeking constant help from the law enforcement people to help him do it. I think that this permit should not be issued because of the incidents we have talked about this evening. That is all,, Mr,, Cianchettia I would like to state very briefly that first of all I think what we are concerned with as I have indicated throughout this hearing as far as whether or not you call it a renewal or revocation; I think you are dealing with the same thing,, You have a man who has a business based. on the fact that he has -- that the City has issued a cabaret dance permit for two years without any question whatsoever in terms of renewal. He has never been informed at any timethat there is any problem in connection with his place of business and comes up for renewal on the third year and at that time the Chief of Police as a staff member of the City takes action on his own part and admittedly by the Chief without any discussion with respect to any of the other staff members,, It is my understanding they have never been even in the pace of business to determine whether or not he met the physical requirements, -89- C, C. 2/16/65 Page Ninety . At any rate, the point that I am making is that I think as far as the revocation is concerned that we are limited to dealing with those items which fall under Section 4113 of the West Covina Municipal Code and as outlined A through I and I think very quickly I can dismiss B through I because I don't think there has been one single allegation that there has been any violation of any of those sub -sections. I might -point out with.respect to the topless bathing suit show that a citation was issued against that girl for indecent performance under sub -section F and contrary to what the Chief said, my partner handled the trial, there was a trial and though there may not have been any defense testimony because at the end of the prosecution's side of the case the judge concluded that the testimony in that case --the girl should be found not guilty and the section was not applicable. I think we are dealing only with respect to sub -section A, the question of disorderly conduct. The point I want to make here is that it appears to me to be a real paradoxical type of situation in that on one hand an owner of an establishment is asked to get in touch with the Police Department every time there is some type of conducts anti -social, disorderly conduct, however you want to describe it. He is asked to call the Police Department every time something like that happens in his • place of business and on the second hand every time he does call the Police Department he gets a call for services notation listed and assuming that those called -for services exceed a set number which the Chief in his own discretion feels is too much then he can fail to renew the license and the point I want to make is that all of the testimony this evening at this hearing indicates that at -no time has there ever been any attempt made to draw comparisons based on the amount of business or perhaps even the type of business which is being done. There are no indications -- there are no studies made so all we are dealing with is a total number of calls. Looking at the calls reaslistically and dealing primarily with the year 1964, you have one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten instances of arrests during a twelve-month period and one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine,.ten,.eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen instances where investigations were conducted and no arrests were made. I would like to say our office personally has handled three of these cases. I personally handled an assault with a deadly weapon charge and that was dismissed at the preliminary hearing stage. The judge made a ruling that no crime had been committed and secondly that the person charged with the crime -- there was no probable cause to hold him to answer for a trial. •With respect to the Silva -Jolly fracas, the Police Department went to the District Attorney's Office initially with a request that Silva be charged with assault with a deadly weapon. Subsequently they filed a brandishing charge against him which is a violation of Section 417 of the Code and he plead guilty to 415 and the case against Jolly was dismissed in its entirety. That takes care of three of the calls which the Chief has indicated. .M Co Co 2/16/65 Theft, there are one, calls, If I can draw the people at Broadway on their premises, Page Ninety -One Looking at these other calls, 484 P. C,, Petty two, three, four, five -- five of those particular an analogy for just a minute, that is like saying should be criticized for a petty theft occurring I'think it is a horribly unfair burden to ask a proprieter of an establishment of a type of place that the Water Wheel is or any place of that type, Gigi's, any of the bowling allies where they have dancing, the Huddle Restaurant, to be an insurer of the goods or purchases or things like that which are left at a bar. when a person gets up to go dancing., I -don -It think the owner of the establishment should be charged with that responsibility. Of all the testimony we have heard this evening there has only been -- and if you will recall this one direct incident which occurred inside the area or cabaret dancing is conducted and that is the Kleid incident and we have a conflict in the testimony. It is the contention of the applicant that Mr. Kleid was intoxicated and perhaps contributed to the fight himself and was asked to leave prior to the time there was any argument. Secondly, that incident took place there before there was any cabaret dancing,. The second incident is the incident that Officer -- I believe it was Forrester -- testified and he testified that he stopped a person for a traffic violation; that person had a cut lip and blood on his face and there was a discussion about being hit at the Water Wheel, Those are the only two incidents of anything occuring on the premises wherein dancing takes place. I think the conduct which is complained of by the Chief should bear some reasonable relationship to dancing, That is, are you eliminating the type of conduct which is being complained of.by virtue of depriving the man of his cabaret permit? I say if the Chief means, "Let's do away with the business license" then let's approach it on this basis'and be honest about it and say, "Mr, Lotito, you shouldn't operate in the City of West Covina, We don't like the type of business you are operating," Effectively the.Chief issaying that they are not going to have dancing and your heard Mr. Lotito say that 900 of his business is the result of the fact he is permitted to have dancing on his premises. If the Chief wants to say he should not have dancing I think he should be required to show there is some relationship between the conduct complained of and the fact that a' cabaret dance permit is going to be issued by this Council assuming it overrides the Chiefs action, As I pointed out, when the section was amended that portion of the section which related to proposed activity would be contrary or detrimental to the public peace, health, safety, moral or general welfare, that section was deleted so I think the only thing the Council is left with is 4113 of the Code and I don't think anything the Chief has put forward this evening falls within that catagory and I want to thank you for extending the courtesy of allowing us to go far afield in this particular thing, Mr., Terzian: Prior to -- all of the evidence has been presented; all the arguments are made; both sides have presented their facts and arguments on the law. With all due respect to Mr. Cianchetti as to the applicable law, it is my opinion subject to whichever ruling the Council wishes to make on it that the Council is not limited to incidents occurring under 4113A although there are no specific standards set forth in 4111 as it now -91- C, C, 2/1.6/65 Page Ninety -Two stands, I believe that under 4111 the Chief is entitled to refuse to issue a cabaret dance permit if that issuance in his opinion and as long as our action is not arbitrary or capricious, would be detrimental to the public peace, health, safety, moral or general welfare, The ordinance provides that such a determination on his part is subject to appeal to this Council so in effect this Council is making its own determination as to whether or not the issuance of the dance permit to Mr. Lotito for the year 1965 would be so detrimental, The Chief has presented evidence in the form of his oral summary of incidents and in the form of witnesses he presented to back up his contention -- to back up his determination that the issuance of the permit would be so detrimental and, of course, Mr. Lotito through his counsel has presented witnesses in evidence and arguments to the effect it would not be, It is my opinion further that there is sufficient evidence in this record that has been presented to this Council on both sides so that the Council may exercise its discretion, it's reasonable discretion in whichever direction it wishes to go, It may either deny this appeal in which case Mr, Lotito would not get a permit or it may grant the appeal which would mean that the Chief would be directed to issue the dance permit, Mayor Snyder; Isn't there one more possibility? The ordinance doesn't say so but, say, the permit were denied, Under what provision can the man return and re -apply and get a new hearing? Can we set the time limit? Mr, Terziana He can re -apply for a cabaret dance permit at any time, He could theoretically apply tomorrow, Under the ordinance as it now reads he could re -apply at any time if he so wished, Councilman Heaths It is very unfortunate that we have had some of these incidents, et cetera, in this Jim's Water Wheel, There have been one or two that I think have been quite serious, However, I have to look at this from an objective point and I would do it in this manner: I can't help but think if you had two establishments side by side where one had dancing and the other didn't and they both had the same number of police calls per year the man with the dancing permit would be penalized by having his dancing permit removed and the other man would most likely get a reprimand, I therefore agree with Mr. Cianchetti that any complaints relating to the dance problem is the only thing that should be considered when we are talking about a dance permit, If you would refer to the wording on this disorderly conduct throughout that entire paragraph it states that the disorderly conduct shall not be in the area of the cabaret dance • and it does not say anything about the complete premises. I think we reach an arbitrary point. How many calls are too many? Are two calls too many? I don't know but when I start knocking out five calls for petty theft, five calls for this and five calls for that, and whittle this 25 calls down we may be talking about one and a half calls per month, Is this too much? I don't think so, I would question some of these calls as to whether they should be charged against this person or not, As I have stated before, where someone steals a purse, are you going to penalize this man and blame, him for it? I do admit the man has a rather defensive attitude at the present time and I am not going to take his side for that, I think if we went into it deep -92- I C, C, 2/16165 Page Ninety -Three enough we would find out why he has a defensive attitude and the reason for the defensive attitude might be something that should be weighed, I believe he is trying to attemt to correct the condition by removing the jam sessions, He has operated a good establishment before and I think he can go back to it. The Chief has just told you how he has operated for one and a half months without a call, He has done away with the jam session, You remove his license and you will ruin his business. If you say he can come back_ and re -apply again, how can he redeem himself unless he can prove to you that he can carry on a good business? How can he prove it? The only way he can prove it is if he has the chance in which to prove it to you. If you remove his license he doesn't have that chance. I do feel that he is in a real serious position, I feel he knows it, I feel he has learned a lesson from this I don't think he should be penalized to a point of ruining his business from here on out and since he has attempted to correct the condition I have enough faith in mankind to think he will continue to.correct it and after six months if he has not corrected it to what it should be I would be the first one to suggest that we remove the license. Councilman Krieger: I don't feel the hour befits belaboring this matter. I think Mr. Cianchetti has spoken well for his client. The fact that he has appealed brings to light the fact that this is not under the revocation of permit section of our Municipal Code. The Chief of Police has no right to revoke a permit. He does have the right to grant a permit. He has that right because this Council has delegated that right to him. We have given him that duty to perform, whether he likes it or not is not the issue, The issue is did he act arbitrarily or capriciously in denying this permit and although I appreciate Mr. Cianchetti's efforts and I might say mine would be directed along the same lines in order to focus the Council's attention upon other sections which clearly have to do with revocation and not granting, I suggest to the Council that the sole issue before this Council under Section 4111 is that administratively did the Chief of Police act arbitrarily and capriciously in this instance, I suggest that in my opinion there is ample evidence to suggest that it was neither arbitrary nor Capricious and that in substance the basis for the denial of the permit was predicated upon the Chief's analysis of the past record of this establishment' his conclusion that the present management could not properly manage this. Now$ whether it was a matter of cause or effect is not a matter of significance.The fact is that it is a condition that exists. We have an increasing number of incidents; we have the Chief's conclusion that this constitutes a police.problem, I believe he is in the best position to make such a determination and he has made such a determination, Finally$ it is a privilege and not a constituted right for this appellant or anybody else in this City to operate under this section and as long as it is a privilege it is a determination initially to be made by the Chief of Police whether that privilege should be renewed and if he denies it it is the duty and responsibility • of this Council to determine whether or not in the instance where it was denied did the Chief of Police act properly and within his office. I suggest that he did and the appeal should be denied, Councilman Jett: I have a couple of questions. There are a couple of questions in my mind that haven't been completely resolved as yet, The question in my mind is this: How many of these arrests that were made were a direct result from dancing? Can you tell me this? -93- • U • C. C. 2116/65 Chief Sill: Page Ninety -Four We put on the case. I assume you will have to draw your own conclusion. Councilman Jett: I don't know of any of these instances, not one that I can actually say was a direct result of dancing. They happened to be dancing in the establishment but I just can't recall any testimony here that was given that caused -- there may have been one -or two where a fellow got hit when he wasn't dancing,-- when he was dancing with somebody's wife but this is the only one that I can recall where there was any testimony or any indication, here at all where the arrests were made or where the problems were directly related to dancing. The fact that dancing might be a contributing factor in that it attracts more people to the business this might be a factor, I don't know, but I would assume this probably is because he has stated that over a period of time -- three years I think we are talking about -- these instances have increased and in this time his business has increased as a result of having dances in there. I just can't see where the dancing itself has been a major factor in bringing about all these problems. Like a little petty theft, things of this nature, I don't think that the dancing has been contributing to this. I think there is some area here where we can make a decision where we could allow this man to have dancing, or.allowed him to have a dancing permit on some kind of a probationary period. If in this time there are incidents that happen there that cause the police to come back on numerous events and it is a result from this dancing then I would certainly be in favor of revoking their permit but I don't think that I could go along with revoking the permit under the testimony as I understand it. Councilman Nichols; I don't have all the legal knowledge or judicial experience to sound very important in a matter of this sort and certainly a matter I would have preferred had not come before this Council. We don't live in a big city; we live in a small town where everybody knows everything about it the next morning. Everybody is talking about this problem in our City and all of us are responsible for the problems that come and the action that this Council takes will be talked over all over the City. There is a lot of importance to what we are doing here tonight. The last thing I would want to do would be to put anybody out of business in this town and I mean that in all sincerity. On the other hand, I don't feel your establishment has been cooperative with the Police Department. I don't feel you have evidenced a cooperative attitude from all that I can gather from the testimony and being that this is not a legal courtroom, from what I hear in the community. I think you could probably be more cooperative. I am going to take the position personally and in complete candor that I think I have to uphold the Chief of Police of this City and that is what I am going to do and I hope that in a very short time that Jim's Water Wheel can evidence by its conduct of its business that it will merit the re -issuance of.a dance permit and that the Chief of Police would see fit to re -issue that permit at that time because I do not want to see you put out of business but I must uphold the Chief of Police in this matter based upon what I have heard and what I know and that will be my position. -94- r Z J C,, Co 2/1.6/65 Page Ninety -Five Mayor Snyder: Personally, I liked Mr. Krieger's speech and I wish I could say it as well, I also agree with Mr. Nichols, I think the facts of the matter are it is not a matter of having to uphold the Chief of Police and I think there has been reference brought up here tonight that perhaps the police were picking on the particular establishment and I have never known our Chief to do that and I don't think there was any proof of that here tonight. I would agree with Mr,, Nichols, however, that if the conduct changed here that I am sure the Police Chief is a reasonable man and will reconsider this in a reasonable time,, I think at this time a motion is in order,, Councilman Krieger: Move that the appeal of James Lotito, doing business as Jim's Water Wheel Inn, for the issuance of a permit upon an appeal from a denial of the Chief of Police of West Covina be denied,, Councilman Nichols: I will second the motion Mayor Snyder: This will be a roll call vote,, • Mr. Flotten: Councilman Jett? Councilman Jett: No,, Mr,, Flotten: Councilman Krieger? Councilman Krieger: Aye,, Mr,, Flotten: Councilman Nichols? Councilman Nichols: Aye,, Mr,, Flotten: Councilman Heath? Councilman Heath: No,, Mr,, Flotten: Mayor Snyder? Mayor Snyder: Aye,, There being no further business, Motion by Councilman Nichols, seconded by Councilman Krieger, and.carried, that this meeting be adjourned at 1:15 A,,M,, -95-