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01-18-1965 - Regular Meeting - MinutesE • MINUTES OF THE ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL CITY OF WEST COVINA, CALIFORNIA January 18, 1965 The adjourned regular meeting of the City Council was called to order by Mayor Snyder at 7:35 P.M. in the West Covina City Hallo Councilman Heath led the Pledge of Allegiance. RnT.T. r AT.T. Present: Mayor Snyder, Councilmen Jett, Krieger, Nichols, Heath Others Present: Mr. George Aiassa, City Manager Mr. Robert Flotten, City Clerk & Admin. Assistant Mr. John Q. Adams, Public Services Director Mr, Harold Joseph, Planning Director Absent: Mr. Harry C. Williams, City Attorney CITY CLERK'S REPORTS' VARIANCE NO. 536 West Covina Music Theater APPROVED and LOCATION: East Garvey between Holt Avenue and Via Verde Drive PRECISE PLAN NO. 438 Request for erection and operation West Covina Music Theater of a nonconforming theater -in -the - APPROVED round, related service buildings, concessions, plus an adjacent res- taurant in County Zone A-1 40,000, approved by Planning Commission Reso- lution No, 1723; request for approval of precise plan for a theater -in - the round approved by Planning Commission Resolution No. 1724. Held over from January 11, 1965. Hearing closed. Mayor Snyder: I have studied the Minutes in detail as well as read all the material available on these matters as well as Precise Plan No. 440. I have also viewed the movie that was presented here the night the hearing was held. I am prepared to discuss the matter and to vote on these issues at this time. I would like to discuss both these matters at the same time. Councilman Heath: At the last meeting the Council deemed it advisable to take one problem at a time and act on one property at a time. I presume we will do this tonight. Mayor Snyder:. That is all right with me if it is all right with the rest of the Council. The first time will be Variance No. 536 and Precise Plan No. 438. Councilman Heath: I have a few questions. As I understand it - one of the condi- tions offered by these developers was that they would make a four lane frontage road from this property down to Holt Avenue, is this correct? C, C. 1/18/65 Page Two VARIANCE NO. 536 6 PRECISE PLAN NO, 438 - Continued Mr. H, J. Yount: I discussed this at length with Mr. James and Mr, Darby. We agreed we would do the necessary work to widen that road providing that the Darby -James interest would give us whatever right-of-way is necessary for the widening. We are perfectly willing to go ahead and assume the cost of doing the work on the four -lane road, We have no way without Mr, tDarby and Mr. lames g%ving us the slope easement necessary or the right-of-way to,,,iden this road, This road at the present time is on State property. it is approximately 30 feet wide, As far as the developers of. the Covina Ranch, we would be perfectly willing to take care of the road problem if the right-of-way is. available, Councilman Krieger: T tgas interested i.n the statistical validity of a figure that Mr Mayo quoted last weelk and perhaps he can ampli..fv on it and that is a,pproxim.ately two-thirds of his patrons would be generated from the west. How are ,Tou able to arrive at this statistical analvsis.? Mr; Nick Mayo: I an not sure it is a statistical figure, I don't think anyone has made a survey; It %s everyone's best guess, including the Traffic Department of the„City of West Covina, that two-thirds would be • generated from the west, It is likely in terms of population and. the use of the -freeway' Councilman Krieger; ',3e are actually in the -area of guessing as far as generation is concerned? I Mr. Nick Mayo: Yes, I would assume since the theater is in an area where more than two-thirds of the population.is on one side, unless none of them'come to the theater it is a reasonable assumption that,two- thirds would come from the west, Councilman Krieger: You are also familiar with the population centers that we have to the east of the proposed site that might very well generate a considerable -'attendance at your theater? Mr. Nick. Mayo: Councilman Krieger: to a reservoir but have created on South Garvey contemplation that there area itself as they feed I hope so. The. parking a.li:thi_n the theater area itself, you have referred confined your remarks to the reservoir as it comes off the"freeway, It is vour would be reservoir .space within the parking .into the parking.area? Mr, Nick Mayo: Yes- You will see on the precise plan that,there isample reservoir area on the site, The reservoix that tale speak of on Garvey is not one of our planning; it is one that we know will happen when a car comes off the freeway, .particularly if it is in line,, It must be stored somewhere before it comes on the site so the reservoir areas we refer to are forced storage areas, the reservoir space on the site itself is.on both sides of the building from Garvey to the building and around it to the r.ear of it, approxi- mately 450 feet on either side. -2- • is C, C, 1/18/65 VARIANCE NO, 536 8 PRECISE PLAN NO, 438 - Continued Councilman Krieger: Page Three Referring again to that precise plan you contemplate tandem parking, four deep? Mr, Nick Mayo: Yes, There seemed to be some recollection i-n my mind as to last week's testimony that you had some criticism of tandem parking, the unavailability of the automobile. The type of tandem parking we employ at Valley Music Theater. is the poorest choke because it is 18 cars long and requires the movement of eight cars in order to get the middle car out. At the Vallev Theater all cars are required to leave their keys and their car unlocked so in an emergency a car or eight cars, if necessary, can be moved, f,Jith four -car tandem we feel this is the most convenient way to park cars, Councilman Krieger: You lay great stress in the presentation of your case as .well as implicit strength in the remarks you made later in discussing the factors of traffic flow and parking, In your experience in operating the Woodland Hills Theater you find that these are necessary .elements for consideration in the planning of theaters -in -the -round? Mr, Nick Mayo: Absolutely, We spent many months in this area looking for a site, The site we.°.were looking for had to meet one requirement fir:st --.to be far enough from a freeway exit so we would not be creating a traffic problem in an area we chose to put a theater., Councilman Krieger: Is this your answer to the point that you ha.d the Melodyland as a going business at the time you were planning your Vallev Theater and yet had problems even having the advantage of an ana.lvsi_s of Melodyland at the time you planned Valley? Mr, Nick Mayo: le had acquired our site before the Melodvland people started their project in Anaheim, our acquisition of o�.:r_. F;i to n r�Jccd� and Hills predated Melodyland's starting by perhaps a- year, Councilman Krieger: Other than convenience factors do you believe and is it your opinion as an operator that the public is influenced in their decisicn as regards attendance by what problems they might be involved in as far as parking and traffic is concerned in deciding to attend a theater such as this? 11r, PJic)c Maio: I think to a certain degree that is true but I don't think an inconvenience in parking would necessarily keep an audience ar,7ay, Councilman Krieger: It may be a deterrent but not necessarily a major deterrent as far as attendance is concerned? Mr, Nick Mayo: I would not want to purposely plan to inconvenience the patrons, to take a chance that he c,rould attend even though he inconvenienced, -3- C. C, 1/18/65 VARIANCE NO, 536 8 PRECIS'E PLAN N06 438 Continued .. Page Four • Councilman Krieger: If all other things were equal in your opinion as between a facility that provided good traffic flow and ample parking facilities as contrasted to a facility that did not would it be your opinion that the public would be more likely to attend that facility that provided those added features? Mr, Nick Mayo: That would be so in my opinion, Councilman Krieger: it would be.vour opinion that that particular facility would be at a competitive advantage to the facility that did not? Mr, Nick Mayo: T would think so. Youare getting into an area now that really has nothing to do with your question, Councilman Krieger: It has to do with my question and it has to do with your answer and this general subject matter.,. Mr, Nick Mayo: I would sa.y the following: Given two theaters of this kind some 50 miles apart one having bad traffic conditions and one. • having good traffic ar4 good parking, if .you lived equally between those two theaters you would .go to the one that had good parking, good traffic and good shows, Councilman Krieger: I assume your answer would be if° -they. were approximately a half -mile apart this would be -- Mr, Nick Mayo: No, sir, Councilman Krieger: What would be the difference? Mr, Nick Mayo: Because I can't envision two theaters a half -mile apart, Councilman Krieger: You ask us to view a film as to comparative traffic conditions on two proposed sites, Holt, roughly, and Barranca, roughly, The use of the surrounding areas are somewhat different, would you not concede that? Mr, Nick.Mayo: Indeed they are, Councilman Krieger: What do you conceive as the use of the general area upon which you propose to build vour theater? Mr, Nick Mayo:. I would have no notion, no idea how that area would in future time develop. I do know our choice of this site is not unlikely or unlike our choice in Woodland Hills, We were surrounded by R-1 and R-A property, We were, however., on a major thoroughfare and although that.is zoned mostly R-A and R-1 everyone feels it will change character and change complexion in,years to come'as it has over the past ten. years, There are commercial developments moving in there, There are multiple dwelling units moving in there and yet we still sit in the -4- C, C, 1/18/65 Pane Five VARIANCE NO. 536 & PRECISE PLAPd NO, 438 - Continued • middle of a residential area, Our application for a zone change had one single person in opposition. Obviously the people who live bordering the theater in Woodland Hilts saw the theater as an advantage to their neighborhood and not a blight,. Councilman Krieger: You have no difficulty in your presentation as T understood it last week to the satisfaction of the four grounds for a.variance including and specifically that as it may pertain to the comprehensive general plan? Mr. dick Mayo: No Councilman Krieger: No incompatability of development of that area by the use of a portion of the area for a theater -in -the -round? Mr, Nick MaVo: I saw no incompa.tability, Mayor Snyder: Mr, Mavos you have indicated that two-thirds of the traffic will come from the west on the freewav, What steps have you taken .to route this traffic off at Holt before they can see the theater? • Also, it is indicated previously that traffic tends to go off_ where they see the theater they are going to, Mr, Nick Mayo:. There is much literature in the ordinary course of selling tickets that you put out for the public including ads in the paper where you tell them which exit to get offs Mayor Snyder: Do you have any experience yet on hoer many of your patrons are repeaters and how many are new patrons? Mr, Tuck: Mayo: That would be difficult to guess although during our first season we sold season tickets for the first five shows repre.senting just under 500 of the capacity of that theater for those first .five shows, The rest were sold by virtue of single sales, Councilman Jett: Mr, Mayo, on the street studies as proposed you have three plans, one of them showing the street pattern as it now exists, the.second one showing as you come off of Holt Avenue it appear- .;ou have an additional off -ramp that would come into Monte Verde Drive and swine around to Garvey, is this right? Mr, Tom Linsey: Both of those ar'a ex,._s-ti ng, Councilman Jett: On the third rendering you show that you have revised the frontage road to bring it into where it would connect directly with the off -ramp, Ts this true or have you just not shown the off - ramp? Mr, Nick MAvo: As T understand it this s one of the Engineering Depa.rtment's recommendations if things could be brought about to do this. T under- stand that Mr. Yount has had some d..i_scussi..on with Iir. Darby and Mr. - 5 -t Cd Cd 1/18/65 Page Six VARIAN'(_'.E No,, 536 6 PRECISE PLAN N04 438. Continued James with reference to.the ability to.do this, The State is involved here, In order to do this plan the State would first have to revise their off -ramp. It is Rendering No, 2 that is clear and ready to go, Councilman Jett: You also show an on -ramp at Holt !Avenue in Plan No, 3. Was this suggested by the State or was this a proposal of your engineers? Public Services Director, Mr, Adams: Those are proposals that we will present to the State Highway -Commission in connection with the freeway widening and improve- ment, that this would be one of the changes we would be proposing as far as modifying existing facilities and adding to them. Councilman Jett: With.that in mind wouldn't if be more feasible to bring this. directly across and abandon'this (indicating)',' this curve and straightening; out this service road? Public Services Director', Mr. Adams: This is only a concept, one of several that is being proposed, Councilman.Heth: Somewhere in history I am that this reminded off -ramp was'going.to be changed, anyhow and the State has'approved a change in that off -ramp; Was it in accordance with this proposal here?. That off -ramp is not going to stay in that position, It was going to'move further away from the freeway when it .was widened and I think this'= goes • back about .two years`, Public Services -Director, Mr,, Adams: I am not aware of this. Councilman'Jett: I feel the traffic is the major concern, I think this is go' ng to'':have to be resolved. before we really get on our . way, Weare working very diligently with the State and the County to try to get'a complete. interchange at Grand Avenue. Mr, Nick Mayo: Rendering No, 2 as I understand it with the conditions that were laid down by the staff and the Planning Commission with which the developer accedes, is the one ready to go, Rendering No, 3 is something they would like to nee in the future after the freeway gets widened, For our development Rendering No. 2 is the only one that is conditional, Councilman Jett: This can very definitely affect what happens here because if the complete interchange goes in at Grand Avenue I think there will be an on -ramp coming in at Grand Avenue and if SD. o or 6 0 0 of the tra.f..f is that will be coming to this theater wi_11 be coming from the west it will be coming off the.frreewawsthen the on -ramp from Grand Avenue will converge at the point where the people are beginning to accelerate going onto the freei.7ay; at the same point that those, people who want to get off the freeway will start slowing up. I think if we can straighten this situation up at Holt and think of these,things right now and see that they are properly taken care of_ then I think that the frontage road that is proposed on here is very important as part of the storage area and would be an important part of this job, As I remember correctly when we approved the Darby property for.R-2 zoning.didn't they promise to put in a 80-foot roadway there?. -6- C. C. 1/18/65 Page Seven VARIANCE NO. 536 & PRECISE PLAN NO. 438 - Continued Mayor Snyder: There was discussion regarding it. I don't believe there was a precise plan. We couldn't condition the zoning. Councilman Heath: I think the Minutes will reflect that Mr. James said they would - be willing to widen that to an 80-foot road. They have committed them- selves although only in testimony and they would expect that to be part of their precise plan. Mr. Mayo, am I right in saying that this theater is 3100 seats with a parking ratio of one -to -two? Mr. Nick Mayo: Slightly better than one -to -two; more cars per seat. It would be one -to -two minus. Mayor Snyder: Mr'.- Aiassa, at what stage is the widening of the freeway through West Covina? City Manager, Mr. Aiassa: The State has not made final determinations as to the exact widths and we haven't agreed to all the exact changes. The last con- tract to La Puente are off -ramps and the other contract is from Kellogg Hill to Pomona. We are the gap between these two areas of improvements. They are not planning to go into contract until after the completion of improvements of the Vincent Avenue Interchange and Center Street. Mayor Snyder: Would traffic generated by these theaters -in -the -round tend to aid us in getting the maximum improvement at those interchanges neces- sary to be approved, the added traffic of a theater -in -the -round, would this tend to help our getting maximum improvements at those intersections involved? City Manager, Mr. Aiassa: I think as the City Council re- members, the City of West Covina had all the improvements in except Barranca and when Eastland was con- structed the interchange was developed at Barranca by the construction of an overpass. Councilman Jett: There are considerable remarks made about the status of the annexation of this property. Do you have any clarification of what the status is? Councilman Heath: We were advised by our City Attorney as to the status of the case; however, I believe that was not for public record.. Mayor Snyder: There has been no formal written offers of settlement on either side. I notice there wasn't a condition as to time limit on this variance. It seems to me that variances of this kind should have a time limit so that if construction is not started within that time the variance becomes void, particularly applications of this kind. I think we have often failed to do this when we should have. -7- C6 C, 1/18/65 Page Fight VARIANCE NO, 536 6'PRFCISE PLAN NO, 438 Continued Councilman Heath: I think a variance is a phase of zoning and I think you can't condition a zone -change. Can you condition a variance as to time? Planning Director, Mr, Joseph: Councilman Heath: Planning Director., Mr, Joseph: Yes, I would like the conditions of the variance read, (Read Planning Commission's conditions on Variance No, 536,), Mayor Snyder: I would like an added condition that these related service buildings, concessions and adjacent restaurants be contingent upon the theater -in -the -round, .I think there shouldn't be any misunderstanding that these can be built.without the theater -in -the -round being built first, Councilman Heath: I would agree.to that, Move that Variance No, 536 be approved subject to the conditions of the Planning `Commission with the additional condition that the satellite use's of this area are,o.ontingent upon thp�theater.: eing constructed and subject further that there be a -time limit do this variance of two.years, Councilman Jett:Is there any provision in here that this 4.hall conform to the requirements -"of: the State? Planning Director,;Mr; J&s,eph: That:would,be in the precise plan, Councilman Jett: I will 'seco'nd the motion, Councilman Nichols: In,all of. the testimony that was given on this matter probably less has been said about the matter of the variance itself than on any other subject. I. think the glairiour of the concept of theaters -in -the -round perhapa.:some basic principles of zoning and variance have been tossed by the wayside, Ihaven't heard any comment by anyone in specifics that has given'me any indication that the con- ditions for meeting a variance have been inet`here,. I am trying to approach these matters under the standpoint of zoning law as T under- stand it in my own limited knowledge of these things, Mayor Snyder: I think :that is a �' good .point. I had some question about why this was brought up .under a variance at ail, Act]*_on on Councilman Heath's motion: Motion passed on roll call as follow-: Ayes: Councilmen Jett, Krieger, Heath, Mayor Snyder Noes:. Councilman Nichols Absent: None • C, C, 1/18/65 VARIANCE NO, 536 9 PRECISE PLAN NO, 438 - Continued Page Nine Councilman Heath: Move that Precise Plan of Design No, 438 be approved subject to the conditions stated -in the Planning Commission Resolution No, 1724. Councilman Krieger: !,Mould ycu accept an amendment to the motion that the photograph that Mr. Mayo has held up be marked as Exhibit A and made a part of this precise plan? Councilman Heath: I will accept the amendment, Action on Councilman Heath's motion: Seconded by Councilman Irieger, Motion passed on roll call as follows: Ayes: Councilmen Jett, Krieger, Heath, Mavor. Snyder Noes: Councilman Nichols Absent: None PRECISE PLAIN NO, 440 LOCATION: East Garvey between J, K, Eichenbaum Fairway Lane and (Carousel Theater) Barranca Street, APPROVED Request for approval of precise plan for theater -in -the -round approved by Planning ,Commissi_on Resolution No, 1725, Held.over by Council from January 11, 1965, Hearing closed, Councilman Heath: I have a few questions, In reviewing the Minutes, how many seats are planned for this theater? . Mr, John Leary 615 South Flower Street Los Angeles Councilman Heath: no more than four cars parking would develop a seats," 3300. I gather from Mr. Linscott's testimony, "This would have in each line of tandem parking, This tandem ratio of one parkin; space for each 3,27 Mayor Snyder: Mr, Eckhart from the Division of Highways is here especially tonight to answer questions regarding the highway situation, Mr, Philip Linscott: This is the testi,zionv in part, What I. had preceded that particular piece of testimony with was the fact that the precise plan which is before you shows first access parking for the capacity of 834 cars while if tandem parking were used on the same site with no more than four in each line you would have 11009 parking spaces with the ratio of 3,27, Councilman Heath: Do we have the rendering of this available? C, C, 1/18/65 Page Ten PRECISE PLAN NO, 440 - Continued Mr, John Leary: No, There is a small copy which appeared in the Los Angeles Times which is in your file which purports to be a small copy of what was displayed the other night, Councilman Krieger; Will you take a better.look at it and see if it is in fact a rendering? Mr, John Leary:. Yes, it isp Councilman Heath: In looking at this bird's-eye view plus the precise plan there seems to be a difference and I am trying to determine what the difference is, On this picture you have here it shows a rectangular structure to the rear or north as shown on the precise plan but in the front there is a part of a structure which is not shown on that plan. If it is something that is essential to the building and has been left off in order to make room for parking I think this should be declared, Would you care to take a look at this front and tell me what has been left off of that building over there, Mr, E, McCollin The difference is that the front Sheldon Polluck Architects portion of the building repre- sented originally -three separate individual buildings being snack bars and a cocktail lounge and restaurant. This was modified, They decided they would not have a full restaurant in this facility since they would be in competition with Holiday Inn immediately to the east and for more favorable flow of personnel and traffic of -customers in the theater the configuration of the snack bars was made to conform.with the San Carlos theater which is a four -cornered type of a. building The bar area was added to the area here (indicating) and the box office and main lobby put through the front, Councilman Heath: If I understand you, part of the structure which has been removed was originally the snack bar and the main lobby, which you have condensed into the small area between the ticket office and the snack bar, Is that all. the main lobby that you have now? Mr, E. McCollin: Councilman Heath: Mr, E, McCollin: public areas outside of the auditorium, Councilman Heath: It has increased the main lobby, Our main lobby now is continuous, You don't feel you have cut down on the main lobby in order to get more parking in the front? We have increased the footage in the lobby area and the On -your precise plan in the upper left-hand corner you have a box arrangement. What is that? -10- C, C. 1/18/65 PRECISE PLAN NO. 440 - Continued Page Eleven iMr,.E, McCollin: That is the indication of a bank where there is a slope. This back is cut at one-to-one ratio and it is too steep to park on and we have indicated it as a bank. • I Councilman Heath: In looking at the aerial photo, I paced this off and I notice in the upper left-hand corner there is a tremendous bank, I would guess it would be 30 to 35 feet high and in order to install this precise plan that entire bank would have t- be removed and 30 to 35-foot high retaining walls placed on both sides of the property at the place where the bank .was removed, I am concerned because I have never seen anything like this done and if it isn't done and can't be done then your parking space on the precise plan is not realistic, That is a pretty good chunk of property 'chat would have to be taken out, noes _your engineer feel you can put a retaining wall in there? Mr. E; McCollin: 14e have engineered it to where no retaining walls are required. We have the grades on the site from the soils engineer, the surveyor in.addition to soils test, we have a grade plan which shows the grades, The City has issued us a 5 permit for our grading.of.this site which clearly sets out all the cuts, fills, et cetera, relating to this specific area It has been approved by the City. Councilman Heath: level and no retain wall is required? Mr, E. McCollin: of the parking lot, and no retain wall, a permit issued on it now, There is a grading plan approved in existence showing that cut There is a plan showing that cut, not level; the grades that is correct, and there is Councilman Jett: . On the traffic pattern that is coming into this area if based on the same reasoning on the south side that this theater would receive the same amount of traffic from the same source then the traffic coming from the west would be getting off at Barranca, crossing over the freewav, making a right-hand turn to get into the area in the theater, What is the distance from Barranca to the first opening into the theater? Planning Director, Mr. Joseph: It is approximately 220 feet the parking lot, first driveway, Councilman Jett .from the property line into From Barranca it would be about 920 feet to the Public Services Director, Mr, Adams: How, does this compare to the other property on the south side? It is -longer on the south side, Councilman Jett: Then that traffic coming in there could conceivably be backed up from the freeway across and all the way down to the theater. This is going to be at a peak time when the shopping is going on in the Eastland area. What effect is this going to have on those people who want to get in and shop and who want to get home or how is it going to effect the shopping area? I wonder if someone could answer this question, -11- CJ I C. C. 1/18/65 PRECISE PLAN NO, 440 - Continued Page Twelve Mayor Snyder: I think that testimony was given last week, However, I am wondering myself how much responsibility it is on any developer to provide the streets remote from his location, I think if the land is zoned then it is assumed that it is able to hold the density proposed. on it, .However, I don't know who you would wish to direct this question.to, Councilman Jett: I don't think there was any reference at all as to any effect it would have, Mr, Philip Linscott: I.am perfectly willing to talk to. this point, I think it is very pertinent, One point that was to on by me la-st week was the fact that there are actually two accesses to this particular site which makes it a substantial advantage.over a site which has only one access; We have the access from the San Bernardino Freeway from the east which would be Holt and come through on the north frontage road and we have the access immediately at. the site for the people from the east to get off and then of course we have the access from the we-;t getting off at Barranca and crossing over the bridge and coming to the site, We felt the answer to the traffic capacity potential problem would be answered in large part by the recontrol or the revision of control at the ramp heads at the Barranca Street off. -ramp which, as you are aware, has two lanes actually coming off as you immediately leave.the freeway and comes into a stop sign. At the present time one lane turns right into the frontage road and goes back to the west, The other lane stops at the stop sign and turns left to go to the frontage road to the Barranca Street traffic signal and then left across the bridge and right down to the site, It is our suggestion and the City staff concurs in this that new control measures should be instituted at the ramp head where it intersects the .frontage .road on the south and the Barranca. Street off -ramp from the west should be given preferential treatment over the frontage road traffic that is presently allowed to move freely eastbound to the Barranca Street intersection, It is felt that two lanes could be developed on through and onto the Barranca Street intersection; that this traffic under police control, if it is necessary during peak approach hours, would then be able to move in sufficient capacity through this area to avoid back-up on -the freeway. At that time'I also introduced the testimony concerning running time studies that were made in this Friday night peak traffic period of 7:30 P,M, to 8:30 P.M,, which is the peak approach period to the theater, We found relatively light traffic, relatively little delay in moving, the ability to average in excess of 17 miles per hour in this half -mile run from where the Barranca. Street off -ramp leaves the freeway and to where the first theater entrance occurs and it was my feeling even with the addition of heavy theater traffic with adequate control measures the widening of the north frontage road and proper handling of traffic within the parking lot that we would have no serious traffic problems whatsoever, The combination of the access from the east on -using Holt Avenue off -ramp and routing guides can.be developed and dispensed with tickets, and is a marvelous method for getting people off the freeway prior to getting to the theater,,that people are susceptible to suggestion that this is the easiest way to get to the theater, The local traffic has. access to this theater fron Grand Avenue which would be served very well by Grand Avenue and not even have to touch the freeway. We feel this access is going to serve a pretty good percentage of continuing theater patrons in this area, I think in the long range there will be -12- • C, C, 1/18/65 PRE'ChSE PLAN NO* 440 - Continued Page Thirteen a pretty fair balance east and west as the area to the south and east increase in population. As far as the local problem T am convinced that any problems can be solved with relatively minor revised control methods, This is a very short period we are talking about, between 7:30 and 8:3.0 in the evening, Actually the peark theater periods occur on Saturday night and Sunday afternoon and Sunday evening for these performances and I don't really believe that these are the peak shopping periods. The conflicts will be.minor, Councilman Jett: On the road that is existing there now that is a frontage road which belongs to the State, How would you propose to widen that in order to carry any storage? As that exists now there is only one lane each way, Mr, Philip Linscott: We have been required by one of the conditions in the Planning Commission approval on the precise plan to widen the north frontage road 2.0 feet across the front of the subject property and up to the ramp heads which is property under the same ownership thereby bringing the frontage road to a paved width of 52 feet which is adequate for four lanes in that.area, Councilman Jett: I am thinking all the way up to Barranca and I don't think we are talking about four lanes all the way to the Barranca interchange, Planning Director, Mr, Joseph: Councilman Jett: traffic getting off, going over freeway and turning right. Off -ramp only, .You are going to have only one lane handling all that Barranca and feeding over the Mr, Philip Linscott: This is already widened in `that area, The traffic coming off the freeway at Holt would have an exceptionally long storage area on the north frontage_road, the traffic from the.ea-t, It is my contention there will be a major flow of traffic down Grand Avenue toward this site using; the ramp from Grand Avenue and this will join with the traffic coming -from the freeway from the east and flow into this area, Tf we handle traffic in the parking lot as T know it can be handled and as it is planned .to be handled we will not have a big stack -up, Councilman Krieger: You agree with Tyr, rTavo's statement that we are in a field of guesstimates as to where these people will be coming from? Mr, Philip Linscott: I think in 'this case we are much closer to a balance than .could be anticipated in the San Fernando Valley Theater where they are pretty much to the west end, This is centered in a million -population area and it is not all to the west of you, Councilman.Krieger: Mr, Hutchison, if I read your testimony correctly, you don't place a great deal of emphasis on educating the people where to drive, -13- C, C..' 1/18/65 F.RFChSF PLAN NO, 440 - Continued Pale Fourteen • Mr, Hutchison: That is correct, Thev are not readily educatable in their driving habits. If they are going to an event they are going to attempt to get off from a major facility at the closest point of access, Councilman Krieger: Mr. Hutchison: Councilman Krieger: Mr, Hutchison: Would this be so whether you printed it on the envelop'or not? I believe so, Your clients are going to have the same problem to the south? Yes except there is only one reasonably close ramp to the Holt Avenue location, Councilman Krieger: Mr, Joseph, we are talking about -a precise plan that has no tandem parking and we`have been given suggested figures that would involve tandem parking, Can this be administratively handled as far as the Planning Department is concerned if a condition were imposed upon the precise plan assuming that it were approved that tandem narking be utilized rather than aisle parking? Planning Director, Mr, Joseph: Councilman Krieger: Planning Director, Mr, Joseph: Councilman Krieger: judge this from your presentation rather than aisle parking on your. Yes. Do you agree that what we had before was strictly aisle Parking? Yes, Mr, Linscott or Mr,.Leary, is it agreeable with you and I that you would install tandem parking precise plan? Mr, Danny Dare We are now operating two 10 Freedman Way theaters,' We have yet to use Anaheim any tandem parking in either theater and we are pretty successful. On one event, the Indianapolis Races, they jammed in so badly on us that we did have to use tandem parking, Outside of that we have yet to use any tandem parking, Councilman Krieger: You have 958spaces provided on this plan with aisle parking but that was before the ponditions imposed by the Planning Commission to increase the street width, You lost parking spaces. What is the exact figure now? Planning Director, Mr, Joseph: 834, Councilman Krieger: This is about one -to -four, This is within our, present requirements, The responses that we received "Co your communications from these various communities seemed to indicate second thoughts as to their parking ratios, ?Mould you agree with that as a general statement? -14- C,. C. 1/18/65 Page Fifteen PRECISE PLAN NO, 440 Continued • Planning Director, Mr, Joseph: Yes, Councilman Krieger: What about the situation up at this other facility you have in Northern California, San Carlos? Mr. Danny Dare: We have more than enough parking there, Councilman Krieger: We have a letter from the City Administrator, Mr, Allen, but' their requirements as I understand ,it were 500, That sounds like a one -to -six ratio but apparently you did not feel that was sufficient and you provided 900 Mrd Danny. Dare. Yes, Councilman Krieger: And here the ratio is a'li.ttle less than one -to -four in San Carlos? Mr. Danny Dare: Yes, We find it more than we. need most nithts, . Councilman Krieger: The seating capacity of. these two facilities are approximately the same; yet, in San Carlos you provided 900 spaces, Mr. Danny Dare: We have a restaurant there which we do not have'in Anaheim or here, Councilman Krieger: What allowance did you make for the seating capacity of the restaurant? Mr. Danny Dare: 100.spaces, The restaurant seats 300, Councilman Krieger: That reduced your theater requirement to 800 spaces, Mr, Danny Dare: Except most }people will he in the theater, ,Councilman Krieger: Does the restaurant receive much independent usage divorced from the theater itself? Mr, Danny Dare: This restaurant is not open vet, I am talking hypothetically, It is being built. We are going to allot 100 spaces .for it, Councilman Krieger: Are your spaces being fully utilized in San Carlos for your theater? Mrd.Danny Dare:. No, sir; not nearly, -15- C, C, 1/18/65 PRECISE PLAN NO, 440 - Continued' • Councilman Krieger: Page Sixteen Is your theater being fully utilized? Mr, Danny Dare: No. The theater will probably do about 500 of capacity on opening night with maybe 600 occupied because 10o will be press. Wednesday night will go up maybe five or ten percent so maybe 600 capacity, Thursday night maybe 650. On Friday night in this area it drops to 50o, Saturday matinee, 400; Saturday night should be full; Sunday matinee should be full, also; Sunday evening drops off again to about 500, 600, Councilman Krieger: Saturday night and Sunday afternoon? Mrd Danny Dare: Your peak problems as far as generation is concerned is That is in this area, Up north in San Carlos Friday is a big night. . Councilman Heath: I think we should take another look at our parking ratio concerning an enterprise of this type, I think these two applications have brought this up, I think wehave to gear this parking for. the • maximum use the same way we gear all the parking for our commercial stores, et cetera, in the City for their maximum use, I am trying to fathom in my•own mind how you can justify in our code one car for every four seats. This means that every car is allotted four seats; every car will bring four people, There are going to.be times where some people cometwo to a car.and this would mean that in some cases we -would have a very full car, I think this should be reviewed at a future date, Mayor Snyder: There is at present a precise plan for an ice palace on this site, What is the seating capacity of this plus the related uses involved?. Planning Director, Mr, Joseph: There were about 1000 cars on the site but I don't know how this was based, We have.a 15-story hotel, a ski palace with a cocktail.lounge and restaurant and large gallery area, ice skating rink, I would have to look that up, Mayor Snyder: In relation to these letters from other cities regarding the parking situation I notice that one of them was one -to -six ratio.and one was one -to -five and nowhere in those letters particularly the one from San Carlost did the City Administrator mention that this parking was inadequate, is that true? Planning Director, Mr. Joseph: I don't believe he did. Mayor Snyder: I think one did say that the problem .related to the peak flow.of traffic, not so much to the parking allottment. Do we have any traffic counts related specifically to the hours from 4:30 to 6:00 at the Barranca Interchange? -16- C, C, 1/18/65 PRECISE PLAN NO; 440 Continued • Public Services Director, Mr. Adams. - Mayor Snyder: at the time the theater opened? Page Seventeen Yes, we do, Do those parallel possibly the traffic counts that would occur Public Services Director, Mr, Adams: Between 8:00 PM, and 9:00 P,M', the eastbound off -ramp at Barranca was carrying 411 cars and this would coincide with the theater. traffic, Councilman Nichols: I think the question Mayor Snyder tended to raise is one that has been in my mind. I realize that the traffic problems are here but I do think there is the element of argument.concerning traffic as a supporting argument for other objections, I assume that most of the theater productions, particU1.4rly these evening productions, start somewhere in terms of 8:00 P.M..or 8:30 P.M., is that correct? Mr, Danny Dare: 8;30 P,M, Councilman Nichols: All of us who live in tJest Covina know we have many many of our friends who commute to Los Angeles regularly and I dare say . between the hours of 5:00 P.1M. and 6:30 P.M. we have a good many. thousands of people pouring back into this City from the congested metropolitan areas'to the west and come off of these ramps and I rather think that in my own mind I don't see a great deal of increased volume at these locations between 8.00 and 8:30,P.M. Some of these people will be coming to eat dinner and will come before the time of the peak traffic, I am not personally quite as concerned about the traffic as most of the rest of the Council appears to be, I have found it a little''unusual that gyre were able on the previous application not to express any particular concern about a variance completely changing the use of a substantial corner of our City and have spent all this time debating a traffic problem in an area that will inherently always have traffic to some extent, Mayor Snyder: Already our studies by Victor Gruen reveal that Barranca Street Interchange is going to have to be up -graded, I think if you were to put.commercial on this property -this would engender probably a bigger conflicting traffic problem than this theater is going to engender and I think that the traffic generated by this traffic is going to occur after the peak commuting traffic, I don't think it will hamper too much the shopping traffic of that area, We have here a clarification of the comments made regarding the letter from Mr, Telford, Councilman Heath: That is additional information, Mayor Snyder: This is merely clarification of information clarifying information from the staff on evidence, and I believe this is admissible for discussion, not as evidence, City Manager, Mr, Aiassa: puts whatever weight and value they want Mr. Williams wrote quite a letter on this matter.. The Council to on it, -17- C. C, 1/18/65 Page Eighteen PRECISE PLAN NO, 440 - Continued • Mayor Snyder: Is. Mro Eckhart here from the Division of Highways? I would like to ask a question, In determining the interchanges in advance of. development I would imagine you would do this on what the potential of development in this area would be whether it is built or not, This has been zoned commercial for some time'without anything being built on it. Would you feel that -a theater being built,'here instead of commercial would put a greater potential load'on this interchange than commercial? Mr, Eckhart: It would depend what the com- mercial establishment was that would draw•the traffic, It is very true that the theater will have their peak after the commuter peak and you could get some commercial development in there that would generate a peak coinciding with the commuter traffic and equal volumes entering there as compared with the theater, That would be much worse than the theater. Theater traffic I think is inclined to come in a fairly concentrated period of time, Your people feel that 40% of the traffic will arrive in a 15- minute period so that while it doesntt coincide with the commuter peak it will be a short and very heavy loado Mayor Snyder: At the present time there is no Division of Highways plan for -an, interchange at.Grand Avenue 9 is there? Mr, Eckhart: Mayor Snyder: No, Is there any anticipation of such? Mr, Eckhart: I can.answer it this way because that is a little bit out of my bailiwick but I did check before coming out tonight and was told that we are waiting until this Victor Gruen study is complete, Ke plan then to sit down with the City people and do the best we can to come up.with a plan that is satisfactory to both, Councilman Krieger: Mr, Mayo, your experience is the same with respect to attendance at your Valley Theater percentagewise? Mr, Nick Mayo: No, We have sold out on Tuesday, 14ednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday; sold out on matinee days during Peter Pan, A theater of this kind does.not sell out every night. During our first season, a total of 12 weeks, we averaged.'over 88%, Councilman Krieger: In your opposition to this particular application you laid greatlemphasis'on the subject of traffic flow and parking, Is it not a fact: thl- t if your facility offers easier access and greater parking capacity than a competing facility that You are more likely to attract attendance than the facility that does not? Mr, Nick Mayo: I wish I could in fairness answer t'riat question directly, If.i_t were 30 to 40 miles away and you lived between the two theaters I would sav that i_s a fair statement but that is not the problem with respect to the possibility of two theaters competing over. a C. C. 1/18/65 Page Nineteen 'PRHChSE PLAN NO, 440 - Continued • short distance;. That problem has to do with a terrible shortage of product, It is unlike any other business in the _world, There are only about 40 musical -comedy literary properties, Between the Melodyland Theater and the theater in Woodland Hills last year out of 10 shows we played three in common, Councilman Krieger; This is an ingredient that you can 7.udge but .we as a Council cannot, Your are asking us to make this choice based upon the relative merits of these two applications? Mr, Nick Mayo: Yes, I would hope that you would choose for the community a theater placed in the best place for them that would .furnish them the most convenient and safe traffic flow and parking, Councilman Krieger: You speak very well for your own application but I am trying to evaluate in terms of the matter of substance the objection that you have to the application before us, Trying to divorce it from the area of competition and going to the area of whether or. not as a matter of substance we have a problem on this precise plan for parking And flow of traffic,. in your opinion and based on your experience in this field you say we do? • Mr, Nick Mayo: Based on our experience and limiting this discussion only to traffic and parking, the pictures that I showed you of two lanes wide, .80,to 100 cars backed up on Ventura Boulevard will be the condition you will have on Barranca every night the theater is operating. Those same cars will be spread across Barranca completely cutting off the north and southbound traffic on Barranca, Mr, Hutchison testified last Monday that theater traffic would increase the traffic flood on Barranca by two and a half times. If y'oul think the traffic on Barranca isheavy now, multiply it by two and a half, Councilman Krieger: Mr, Hutchison's testimony was predicated upon your estimates a.s.to what the percentage of origination would' be east and west? `Mr. Nick Mayo: He based his figures on the Traffic Department of the City of (Test Covina's estimate, Councilman Krieger: Mr, Hutchison disagrees with you as to .the ability to educate people as how to travel to a specific destination, Mr, Nick one they Mayo: I_think Avenue .he. said the Holt exit would be the only would use once they found out where it was, IIe did say that it would be difficult to educate someone to go two miles east a theater and get off at that exit because it was easier trafficwise, We have them to found no problem in Woodland Hills, We have tried to educate go past Winetka, to Canoga and come back but they won't do it, -19- CO C, 1/18/105 Page 'tc>>enty PRECISE PLAN Np, 440 - Continued • Mayor Snyder: If experience shows you are so successful that this parking is inadequate, other than the possibility of tandem parking do you have any other thoughts of increasing the parking in this area without spilling over onto neighboring parking lots? Mr, John Leary: By tandem parking on that precise plan you can accommodate more than a thousand cars and our view would be that under any reasonable set of circumstances that should be enough, ?le feel there is more than enough in there on the aisle plan, Tt is a question of how much tandem one wishes to park, Mayor Snyder: Mr, John Leary: The property to the west of this application is under your ownership? Yes, Mayor Snyder: Is there any precise plan for development of that property"... Mr, John Leary: I understand there is not, Mayor Snyder: If there are plans for develop- ment of that property is there any possibility of a joint use in that area? Mr, John Leary: It is conceivable, after the theater begins operation if it turns out there is no way to (;et addzt on.a.l p-roper-ty I am sure 1,1r. Eicheribaum might consider using that, Councilman N-ichols: The joint use of na.rkina here si�n&e it is under one ownership is feasible or possible.i_n this matter? Mr, John Leary: I think it is within the realm of possibility, Councilman 'death: Even though t,.7e have been requested to take sides in this case I don't see hoc,.,i we can. I think all we can do i_s judge each 03. thecae projects on their oian merits. It is not the re,_,ponsib-1 ity of the Council to sa.-y that one man may develop a piece of pronert,,� .n.d another man cannot but it is the responsibility of the Council `_:o see that we get a satisfactory development in the City that will not be a problem to the other members of the City, the residents and visitors to the City, li feel that this project will create numerous problems, If the Grand Avenue Interchange had been installed at this time I don't think we would have much of a problem but until that Grand Avenue Interchange is installed I think we are- creating many headaches not only to our own people but to people going through the City. I travelled the frontage road on the north side of the freeway and this is a beautiful road and they can back u cars for a good half -mile and I think there i.s.no problem in'th4t location except that whatever traffic comes from the east is going to bottleneck and tie up all of the traffic off of Grand Avenue onto the freeway and this is traffic coming from other cities through this interchange and onto the freeway, If these cars line along this, frontage road any car coming down Grand -.20-' • • 8 Ca C. 1/18/65 'PRECI`SE PLAN No. 440 - Continued Page Twenty-one Avenue trying to get onto the freeway will have to, through this .mess, If there was an interchange installed at Grand Avenue this would be eliminated, 1 think there are three real serious traffic problerris and if we,permit this development with a short .period flood of traffic to be installed here we are, . creating these problems -- not.the theater, not thepeople who go.to shop and not the people going to the theater ---'but us, Ile have.in the past approved or denied precise plans dependent upon traffic and traffic condtions they would create, I look at three or four real serious problems and I look.at it .seriously,. The off' -ramp coming from. Los. Angeles at the present time at Barranca hardly handles the. traffic we have now; If the records are right at 411 cars an hour. and you throw.another load on there relating to this theater you are going to back them up onto the freeway. I don't feel that the two lanes crossing the freeway at the Barranca Overpass are adequate to permit the cars to change from the center lane .which they will enter when making their left turn, I don't feel there is enough room for them to get to the right-hand side to prepare for the right turn when they get to the north of the freeway. At the inter- section.of the frontage road and the off -ramp coming from Pomona it is dynamite right now without any development in here to come off that. ramp and try to make a 1-eft'turn because of the traffic coming down Grand along the frontage road and trying to.turn left onto the freeway. By -installing a development like this this problem will be multiplied many fold, In_addition, to throw in the traffic which is coming from the Los Angeles direction over the overpass and turning right into this point of confusion, it will be a bad situation, I don't feel that there is another development, commercial development that will. throw the load on this area as much as this does, I think if it is a commercial development such as a department store, et cetera, that the load during the time will be of a smaller number than what would be attending this theater, I would think that the parking spaces would be inadequate I am in disagreement with the parking spaces recommended by the oridnance, I am not sure that I am happy with the parking spaces on the previous case and certainly this one -to -three point seven I,would be .far from satisfied with, Councilman Krie.gere I think we are kidding ourselves if no matter how well motivated we are and how objectively we try to be we think by voting for one of these and turning down the other that we are not providing the benefit to one of these groups, The net effect is going to.be that you can not travel Southern California be it''to the Dodger Stadium, to the Hollywood Bowl, Greek Theater, County Courthouse,"et cetera., without running into a back-up situation and'when we start getting experts that can tell us how to solve those,problems I suggest we get them here to help us, We have these problems in a number of locations and we are going to have to do our very best to work with these problems but what we have before us.basically is a precise plan, no request for a variance, just a precise plan, It'meets our parking ratio and it exceeds it slightly, On the. basis of what we have before us, on the basis of the zoning that is presently on the property and which could..very well -generate equal or greater usage as far as -traffic flow is e�oncerned, as far as hours of traffic flow are concrned, I see nothing T,,7:th'either precise plan or.the usage for this particular area that would not .ultimately with the emphasis on the,"ultimately" benefit'.this area much more seriously than it.would enhance the problems we presently have in this area due to traffic control and traffic. flow, -21- Cd C. 1/18/65 Pa?e Twenty -Two PRECISE PLA11 NO; 440 - Continued . Mayor Snyder: I would agree in full with what Mr,o Krieger says, We are rolling .luxury here; we have two applications for theaters, I, too, think that they have met our minimum parking requirements; they have even offered suggestions for improvement of those traffic conditions far beyond their site, I think also that this site has three access points form the freeway instead of just one, I agree that each one should,be decided on their own merits and I feel certain that if the other theater had not come in with the objections that there would be no questions asked other than the normal ones which were required to be asked regarding this theater, Councilman Jett: I would like to hear the recom- mendations of the Planning Commission, Planning Director, Mr, Joseph: (Read Planning Commission conditions as outlined in Resolution No, 1725,) Councilman. Jett: Was there a provision that no stopping to leave off passengers would be allowed to vehicles arriving on the theater property? '-Planning Director, Mr, Joseph: You are referring to this memo dated Friday, January 15, following a phone conversation between Mr, Pontow and Mr', Eckhart, It would be a very difficult thing to enforce-, You can certainly impose that condition, If the cars are in the slot approaching the theater I doubt if they .would stop, Councilman Jett: I think if the State Highway Department is concerned about this that we shouhd certainly be advised as to this, Mayor Snyder: How can the theater enforce this? This is on the City streets, 'Public Services Director, Mr, Adams: Tf this gets to be a problem we can post it, Councilman Jett; "That traffic be supervised with ood.officer control," Has there been any question about this instead of just nutting, an•;rhod.y out there for traffic control? Public Services Director, Mr, Adams: Each city apparently has a different way of doing this, It has been our practice that we would propose to continue it where our own off -duty policemen would be.employed by the theater to be in uniform on public streets to handle the traffic, This would be set up with Chief Sill the number of of. f i c�ers,, the hours they work and he has people who do this type of work and this would include some reserve officers, Councilman Jett: That.two full lanes fromthe freeway off -ramps would have to be provided to the theater, -22- • 0 C, C. 1/18/65 PRECISE PLAN NO; 440 - Continued Page Twenty -Three Councilman Krieger: T don't conceive of this as a condition we can impose on the applicants. This is a question of internal traffic control within 'our own City, Councilman Jett: i am concerned about the traffi..c flow and I am concerned about the citizens of west Covina and the problems they will be confronted. with, T think now is the time for us to get those things that will do ,the job, if we don't do it now we never will get it, I don't think one lane would serve this property and I �•iouldn't vote to approve it for one lane of traffic going in there, If it is go,i..ng tc I-)e a require- ment in, order to get two lanes that the City -isgoing to have to pay for it I think this is something else we have to take a look at before we start paying the money for it. I -lotion by Councilman Krieger' seconded by Councilman Nicholso that Precise Plan of Design No. 440 be approved subject to the conditions imposed by the Planning Commission and to add thereto the following conditions: (1) On Item No. 2 with respect to detailed landscaping that we add the language that this be ''subject to the prior approval of the Planning Department"; and (2) That the photograph .from the .Lles Trpearipng in the issue of December 6, 1964 depicting the proposed precise plan or the proposed rendering -be mr,rked Exhibit A and be .included within the precise pla.,n with the exception of the small circular addition to the south side thereof; and (3) That we add, to the conditions as Condition I -To, 6 that the Planning Department ad.ministrati.vely determine the feasibility and implimentati_on of tandem Parking on the proposed site, Councilman Heath: They are supposed to study the feasibility of tandem parking? Councilman Krieger: The feasibility of requiring tandem parking and. i_f they determine that it should be provided by the applicant to administer the necessary changes in the parking phase of the precise plan so as to imposetandem parking requirements.; Action on,Councilman Krieger's`motion: Motion passed on roll call as follows: Ayes: Councilmen Jett, Krieger, Nichols, Mayor Snyder Noes: Councilman Heath Absent: None Mayor. Snyder: Do we have the resolutions ready? Councilman Heath: I question this as to hot. we would have resolutions prepared in advance,- -23- 0 C. Ca 1/18/65 'RESOLUTIONS - Continued Mayor Snyder: the resolutions from the if these can be with the items, Page Twenty -Four There are no resolutions prepared in advance, We have Planning Commission, I am merely asking that corrections passed tonight on both of these Councilman Heath: How can we the Council pass a Planning Commission resolution or how is it that this resolution can be before us prepared in advance knowing that we are going to vote on it tonight approving both of these sites without having some pre knowledge of which way'this was going to go, I have never seen us pass a.resolution of the Planning Commission yet, Mayor Snyder: We have, passed many resolutions by reference only .Councilman Krieger: I have a particular memory of an instance where I appeared before this Council on Home Savings and Loan where the very evening the Council reversed their previous decision the City Attorney had a resolution prepared to that effect, •Councilman Heath: There is a possibility that - there would be a resolution prepared and ready to be passed both in favor and against where the proper one could be used but to have resolutions before us of one side granting one condition of an approval and not having resolutions before us denying I can't understand it. T will not push it any further., I Mayor Snyder: We have the form of this resolution in the Planning Commission resolution, Do you wish to act on these tonight? City Manager, Mr, Aiassa: Normally the Council could introduce a heading of a' resolution and direct the City Attorney to write the resolution as per action of the City Council, You have done this many times, RESOLUTION 1110, 3082 ADOPTED The City Clerk presented: "A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF WEST COVTNA GRANTING A VARIANCE FOR THE USE OF CERTAIN PROPERTY WTTHITT SAID CTTY" (V .5.36, West Covina Music Theater) Mayor Snyder: With the stipulation that this is subject in essence the same as the Planning Commission resolution with the changes proposed by the Council, Hearing no objections, we will waive further reading.of,the body of the resol-ution, -24- Co Co 1/18/65 RESOLUTION NO, 3082 - Continued Page Twent.7-Five Motion by Councilman Krieger, seconded by MayorSn,,'der, to direct the City Attorney.to prepare the body of the resolution in accordance with the action that the Council has taken this evening with respect to Variance No, 536 and that this resolution be adopted by the Council at this t_I.me, Councilman Heath: Mayor Snyder: Councilman Jett: Action on Councilman Krieger's motion: follows: Ts, this legal? `1e are passing a resolution that is not before us? T have not the slightest doubt - that sae are legal. T will vote for this subject to the City Attor. ne,.7 approving the action �-?e are taking, Motion passed on roll call as Ayes; Councilraien Jett, If rieger, Heath, Mayor. Snyder Noes: Councilman Nichols Absent. None Said resolution wzis given .T.io, 3.082, RE SOLUl'TON NO. 3083 A.DOPTI D Mayor Snyder The. C,. :P Cle-1k n:^r sente; rrA- n.FSOLUTTOP3 0 F ';.I?E CTT'' r:1i?Ar(ITT OF TIIE CTT'Y: O r' ?,.rF^'T Cr'.'.1.;.T �; ADOPTING A PaECTSE PLAN OF DESTON, FOP, THE PI'YSIC.A?, ??FVEL MENT OF CFRTA. TN PROPERTY [-TTTHIN SAID CTTY(P t$8 West Ccv.ina. Music Theater) Hearing no ob4 ecti ons, T waive further read.i_ng of the body of the resolution, Motion by Councilman Krieger, seconded by Mayor. Snyder that the City Attorney be directed to prepare the body of the resolution i_n accordance with the action of this Council on Precise ,Plan of Design ?,To, 438 including the conditions imrosed thereon by the Planning Commi_c7_2rn a.,ndl as amended and.modified by the City Cvunc_tl and that the adopted at this time, Motion passed on roll call as follows: µ Ayes: Councilmen Jett, Krieger, Heath, Mayor Snyder Noes Councilman Nichols Absent: None Said resolution was given No. 3083, -25- C, Ca 1/18/65 RESOLUTI'O2dS - Continued RESOLUTION PTO, 3084 ADOPTED Page T�-aenty-Six The Ci t�7 Clerk. -presented: It AP?i;SOLUTT^;,1 Or THE '.TT`' COUNCTT, Or THE CT 91Y OF P.,'FST COVT• n ADOPTIIIC; A PPECTSE PLAP.' OF DESIGII FOR THE PHYSICAL DE`7ELOP"ENT OF CERTATN PPrpET''TY (,-77HII,T SATD' CTTY++ (PP 4409 ,J, K, Eichenbaum) Mayor Snyder: Hearing no objections, cae will <<aaive further reading of the body of the resolution, Motion by Councilman Krieger, seconded by Councilman Nichols, that the City Attorney be directed to prepare the body of the resolution on Precise Plan of Design No, 440.upon the terms and conditions imTosed by the City`Council this evening including the conditions as amended and imposed by the Planning, Commission and that the Council at this time adopt the resolution. Motion passed on roll call as follows, Aves : Councilmen Jett, Krieger, ITichols, Mavor Snvder Noes: Councilman Heath Absent: None Said resolution was given I1c , 3084, RESOLUTION I10, 3085 The 0.it�7 Clerk -presentee.: AD'1P'"T;D ++n PESOLIJ1 ,,)!,d OF TT -PE: CT'fC C )UNrTT, OF THE CTTY OF 111TEST COVTNA ^.CCET TTHIC A CERTA'L I �;,1?',TTTEII CTTITC THE RECORT?ATION THERit" OF++ (Executed by 7C.'31.)ert E AllsoTlp, J� ?l ?ry ! 3 9 1965 for the .f. ire station site on Barr. -rnca ) Mayor Snyder: Hearing no objections,-ae will c>>aive further reading of the body of the resolution, Motion by Councilman Krieger, seconded by Councilman Nichols, that said resolution be adopted, Motion passed on roll call as foilo�.r : -Ayes: Councilmen Jett, Krie-er $Nichols, IIe th , I°Tz. or Sn,", Ier Noes: Prone Absent: None Said resolution was given Ido, 3085, -26- C, C, 1/18/65 Page Twenty -Seven • CITY -MANAGER'S REPORTS JOINT MEETING WITH PLANNING COMMISSION Present: Chairman Fast, Commissioners Kayser,, Gleckman, McCann, Travis S,R,I, AUDITORIUM FEASIBILITY City'Manager, Mr, Aiassa: rP1e have two representatives from S,R,I, The scope tonight is to generally go over the report to give you a brief analysis of this, They are now on Phase 2, Mr, Ed Perkins At the Institute of Southern. Manager California Laboratories Cerald Economics Research Fox who served as the project leader on this assignment, will speak to this later, The objectives of the overall program we undertook on behalf of the City was to identify present and future uses of a regional auditorium, to estimate the size of said regional auditorium, to estimate the problem of financial operating performance, and to assess the economic benefits to the City resulting from the operation of a proposed auditorium complex, In accordance with our initial discussion this overall research objective was broken into two phases the first phase being identification and analysis of possible present and future needs for a regional auditorium complex, tde were to provide a report on the findings of Phase 1 prior to proceeding on Phase 2 and in fact Phase 2 is to be considered contingent upon the Council's review of the findings of Phase l and their decision on whether or not it seemed to be appropriate to go ahead. G1ith that general background I would like Mr. Fox who was responsible for the research to discuss the findings of Phase 1 of the study, Mr, Gerald Fox: We made the analysis of the that which is projected for the Wsituation now existing and est Covina area in terms of the availability of current event activities, the new t.vpe of event activities that could come if given proper facilities, the analysis of the existing and proposed auditorium facilities of the Valley and the overall need and survey of both local groups and of the regional groups for their support of a regional auditorium facility in the G1est Covina area, Our conclusions from this analysis are that there is a need and there will be support for an auditorium complex to be located in the civic center development of the City, that the best facility in the auditorium sense would be a mono -purpose theater with a balcony and a flat floor, a stage, and seating about 3000 people, In addition there should be an exhibit hall that should be used in conjunction with the flat floor and this would be used also for banquets, dances, and separate exhibitions, In addition because of the need for community meeting facilities that a meeting room complex of between two and three thousand feet be added to this complex. In projecting the support we found based on the population, et cetera, looking at the support of other regional auditoriums that the East.San Gabriel Valley area defined by the economic area would constitute the major region of support, about an eightmmil`e radius, This is very characteristic -27- C7 C, C,, 1I18/65 S',R",I, AUDITORIUM FEASTBILTTY REPORT '- continued Page Twenty -Eight of other auditoriums. The projected use of the proposed .facilit,�,r was broken down at first with no knowledge of the proposed theaters -in -the - round. We had contacted both of the people, our consultant specifically, and we were not given information they were proposing a theater in West Covina, We saw a notice in the paper and decided that we should include the effect'of a proposed theater -in -the -round on the proposed auditorium in the civic center, Without the theater -in -the - round the main auditorium should have approximately 170 event days, With the theater this would drop 36 event days, The exhibit hall, if included in the proposed facilities, would not drop in event days nor attendance, approximately 110 event days and 36, 375000 attendance, The meeting rooms would have a high use of 210 event days by a small attendance of 8,850, The total attendance without the theater -in - the -round would be 350,000 and with the proposed theater it would be 2.629000, This would .incorporate rather numerous types of event activities from performing arts to exhibitions, a few sport events, and a large number of community functions, On the basis of preliminary revenues expenses for the facilities we feel the best that could be generated in revenues on a typical year would be $80,000 and that the . expenses would be $110,000, leaving an operating deficit of $309000 This would be accrued during the first five ,rears of operation, possibly up to ten, but after that there"is a very good possibility that, the proposed .facilities could be.operati_ng at a very good point excluding the debt and service cost,. I Mr, Ed Perkins- As we indicated the basic emphasis on Phase 1 was on the demand or need side and it based on an adequate understanding on the potential market and requirements of a facility of this type xye then proposed the possibility of the further work to be undertaken in Phase 2 which encompasses an establishment of a detailed schedule of possible events for the proposed regional auditorium, detailed estimation of the required types and amounts of facility capacity required, a more detailed assessment of the financial operating possibilities for a regional auditorium9,finally, the assessment of the possible economic benefits of such an auditorium to West Covina, We would be very pleased to answer any questions that you may have about the content of this report or about the suggested further course of research activity, Councilman Nichols- You indicated that at best during the initial period there would be an operating deficit of some $309000 relative to your projections? Mr, Gerald Fox: Thates.right, r.. Councilman Nichols: If_ "the drop-off.as anticipated resulted from the placement of any other type of theater operation in this City, if these drop-offs occurred you projected an operating deficit? Mr, Gerald Fox- The with theater -in -the -round would be in the City, $30,000 deficit is estimated the assumption that a - 9 R - C, C, 1/18/65 Page TvTenty-Nine S,R,I, AUDITORIUM FEASIBTLTTY REPORT - Continued Councilman Krieger: I think this group should be complimented, first of all, The report is in November and as.T_ remember the calendar the precise plans on both of these theaters -in -the -round did not come up before our Planning Commission until December and in reading this report I think it would have been almost valueless if thev had not taken into consideration the impact of these theaters -in -the -round, I have particularly in mind some other studies that I have read that have been submitted to the Council that have not taken cognizance of every - .thing else that is going on in the community when they came forward and made their reports to,us, T think it was particularly beneficial to have this comparison, The second point I want to make is if I understand 'your. report and T have attempted to, you recommend really deferring the auditorium for a break-in 'period to determine the actual impact of the theater -in -the -round i..n the communItyo Ts that a fair statement -- two, three, four vears? Mr, Gerald Fox: That.Is right, Councilman Krieger: You also stated that the exhibition hall in order to pick up for this should be increased in size and somewhere in the report • is 25,000 square feet as contrasted to seven to ten thousand square feet as a complex, I am bothered somewhat by that, Then if you go ahead and build an auditorium you don't tear down half of the exhibition hall so you forecast the use and the need upon the basis of seven to ten thousand, What do you do assuming you ultimately develop that whole auditorium complex with the additional 159000 square feet of exhibition space? Mr, Gerald Fox- You have two better facilities than you did before with the proposed, You have to draw a limit somewhere along the line or you would be providing space that you would have at peak size, The main floor of the auditorium would be to seat 39000 people,. Tf you don't provide the auditorium until later than you are providing perhaps if you add an exhibit space you will have 501000 square feet of exhibit space if the auditorium is added later and would be able to accomodate possibly more events by having the larger exhibition hall, This was taken to provide the City with a facility that would accomodate the great need for exhibit events, The exhibit potential is quite high from the City, both from a local and particularly from a regional basis, Councilman Krieger.: The ultimate utilization or the support for such a facility exists.ultimately in this area for 509000 square feet? Mr, Gerald Fox: T would say so, Tn any public facility as this it is always advisable to leave additional space for expansion and this would be certainly our recommendation that a seven to ten thousand in conjunction with an auditorium should permit space for enlargement if needed in the future and as we look at it this would probably be required, Councilman Krieger: I was struck by two sentences in the whole report, The first r� appears on Page 16 and that is, The first community that constructs -20- • C. C, ' 1/18/65 Page Thirty S,RaT, AUDITORIUM FEA.STBTLITY REPORT - Continued such an auditorium undoubtedly will, in fact, in name become the cultural center of the Halley", Secondly on Paae 19, "Par.ki_ng facilities are reportedly inadequate .for all the auditoriums." Mayor Snyder: One of the reasons T supported this study was the question of providing as regional auditorium to serve thi..s area, Would you care to comment upon the best location if you were surveying this for the Valley_ instead of the Citt, of [,lest Covina? Ts the location we propose best or among the best, or what? Mr, Gerald Fox: The City of hest Covina is centrally located and also has the largest population base per a city in the East San Gabriel Valley area, It is accessible from the freewava I don't know about the location right on the freeway, This, I think, involves the same problems you were discussing earlier this evening, However, this becomes rather technical and we could get into this and I think cre would propose this in the second phase of the report to ennumerate the problems that would be involved, T think the location in the City of West Covina and precisely in the civic center is where such an auditorium complex should be in the East San Gabriel Valley, Commissioner Gleckman: I am upset with Table A-3 which shows every one of them operating at a loss, Mayor Snyder: I think the reason for this is they are operated as a community function. There are many functions that take place that don't pay a very high fee, Commissioner Cleckman° My thought was for them to come up with some type of an answer, If there is a way to make money or break even, where do these other cities get these monies to support these auditoriums? Mayor Snyder: I think we would need aid from the County because this is a regional project and I would hope they would come up with a way this could be obtained and we have had some indication that this is possible, Councilman Jett: On Table A-3 it seems to be apparent that the larger the facility the smaller the loss percentagewise, et cetera, Mayor Snyder: T think some of the indication i's that the resort cities such as Santa Monica and Long Beach perhaps have better usage, City Manager, Mr, !Massa: i think the important thing, of the whole auditorium aspect is design, Chairman Fast: T would like to have S,R,I, tell me whether they have any other development other than auditorium complexes that they have seen first a report and then a study and then an actual development to use as a -30- • 8 C, C, 1/18/65 Page Thirty-Cne S, ,I AUDITORIUM FEASIBILITY REPORT Continued basis for comparison in a.somewhat similar catagory ®- not Santa Monica or Pasadena or Long Beach but rather this size, either in the State or the nation, Mr, Gerald Fox: We have conducted 16 auditorium studies and we have seen success in Honolulu, Deluth, Minnesota, Reno, Nevada, To our knowledge in checking with these people plus the music center -- in checking with these people they seem to feel that the projections made were pretty much in line with their experience to date, both in timing, construction cost, interest in using the facilities, and recommendations made toward the operation and management of the facilities. Mr, Ed Perkins: Mr, Gerald Fox: Are all those initially planning on a deficit operation for the first few years? Yes, Chairman Fast: Ts there anyone that you knots of where others .have strongly recommended auditoriums that for one reason or another it was completely a failure and if so what were the sources of the failure? Mr, Gerald Fox: If it is a failure it is generally architectural, pro- motional, city policy and management, TIayor Snyder; What does Phase 2 involve? Mr, Ed Perkins: Establishing a schedule of possible events for the proposed regional auditorium which is something we have started, a more detailed statement of the types of specific facilities and facility components within each o.f.these major catagories, auditorium, exhibition hall and meeting place, Thirdly, clearly the most important research task in Phase 2 is a thorough analysis of the estimate of financial operating performance for. the proposed complex; a brief assessment of the economic benefits that might accrue to West Covina as a result of the location of the auditorium. complex which would have to do.with increased economic activity Cultural facilities, et cetera, Mayor Snyder.: Regarding the recommendations of management, et cetera -- P4r,, Ed Perkins: I don't think there would be any problem -.n listing_ one or more types of organizations that seem to be more successful in this kind of. business, Councilman Heath- At the present time we are considering a civic center development and a park development and a bond issue of four -and -a - third million dollars, I assume this is all we are going to put into the bond issue, I don't think we are going to be able to go before the people in the area with another bond issue for at least a few years. I don't see how you can finance this on anything except general obligation bounds because T don't think you are guaranteed a return that is good enough to warrant a revenue bond and I feel that the people of the City expressed themselves that they don't want to go into lease purchase arrangement because this takes control out of their hands, -31- C, C, 1/18/65 Page Thirty -Two 'S,R,I, AUDITORIUM FEASIBILITY REPORT - Continued This was expressed during the election, I therefore feel that it is going to be a number of years before this can be a reality or even be presented to the people to consider and in the meantime all the statistics we are accumulating will change, I think what we have done so far on Phase 1 is a tremendous job but to go any further until we have definite plans of actuality, actual construction, T think we are wasting time and money and energy to go any further, Mayor Snyder: I understand your thinking and I could go along with a temporary delay but I feel that this particular facility is probably needed just as much as the things we are putting on our bond issue and I would foresee not this year but the not very distant future about doing something of accomplishing the recommendations of this report, I don't think we have to approve Phase 2 tonight, Commissioner Gleckmano We are talking about maybe five years asking for a study of this type and initiating action, When we talk about now isn't the time I have to disagree with Councilman Heath, I feel that the City has.to plan for its future and I think one of the reasons we are in the park and recreation position we are in now is because the remark every time a park and recreation project came before the Council in the past • was "We can't think about it now, we have more important thi- ngs. We don't have the money", et cetera, Now we are priced right out of the market on all these things and I think if we wait two, three years we are going to be priced out of the market in this situation if some other area doesn't pick it up and develop it first, Councilman Heath: We have had four bonds for recreation and parks. People have voted against them, Councilman Krieger: Councilman Heath's point does raise a question that is inherent in the report and that is the validity of the study, Phase 2 at this time particularly in light of your comment that perhaps the proposed auditorium element of the civic center complex might be delayed until the competitive impact of the theater -in -the -round is known, Aren't we going to be faced with a re-evaluation of this Phase 2 at such time as you are able to evaluate the competitive impact of this? What is going to be the validity of this Phase 2 at this particular time? Mr, Ed Perkins: As in anything you always gain something in terms of your present situation and validity of analysis to weigh for new events and new data, The risk you run is having someone else pre-empt your decision, I don't know that we are in much of a position to evaluate this other than saying if you would like us to undertake Phase 2 now we can clearly examine the alternative operations of a regional auditorium complex on a with or without basis, We could take an approach to Phase 2 on either a range of possibilities as to how much the impact might be on the theater -in -the -round situation or to estimate as best we can at this point in time what the impact of these might be, In estimating four or five years in advance 6hich is what we are talking about bythe time these.things get built and have history on them$ you will know more than you know now, The problem then is it is then five years later and a lot of other things could happen in that period of time, -32- C, C, 1/18/65 Page Thirty -Three 'S',R,I, AUDITORIUM FEASIBILITY REPORT Continued • Councilman Krieger: Inherent in your report is a risk that if you were to delay the construction of the element to determine the impact that you also run the danger of competitive element getting into it, Mr, Ed Perkins: That's right, Mr, Gerald Fox: In that same sense I also said that a theater -in -the -round would not meet the auditorium needs of the community but there is an economic problem or situation facing the City, The theater -in -the - round will seat over 3,000 people and for you to invest maybe two to three million dollars for that facility where at the same time it is being planned I thought it was our responsiblit_y to say that initially this theater for one or two years, whatever the paiod may be, would meet somewhat the cultural entertainment needs of the community, Until such time as you could then go in with your own auditorium with a plan that might include a larger or smaller seating capacity or some type of situation that weighs only on an economic sense so you can be pretty safe also in going ahead with an auditorium of 39000 seats as ennumerated in the report if you want to invest the money it will take, Mayor Snyder: I am not convinced that we don't • have the resources or the ability or the desire to build an auditorium, not only us but I think the East San Gabriel Valley and our role as a headquarter cite is going to demand we do this eventually, I would be for temporary delay of Phase 2 but I am concerned that if we delay it temporarily that it will be delayed too long, I think this should be discussed again in at least six months and I think that would be the best timing for Phase 2, • Councilman Krieger: Might not we have a wonderful opportunity to guage the enthusiasm of the people of this City from the proposed issues we are going to present to them on these bonds so it would be appropriate to re-evaluate our thinking on this immediately after we are able to guage the response to what we presently have as a program Mayor Snyder: I would go along with that. I am concerned it not be put aside, that it be brought up again and discussed again, Councilman Heath: We can go to the other extreme and possibly propose it on the bond issue this year and if we get approval on the bond issue this year we can go right into construction, Mayor Snyder: I don't think we should this year, City Manager, Mr, Aiassae I think the Planning Commission and the Parks. -and Recreation.Commission should be complimented on the study they made;°on the master need of'recrea- tional- and -Park facilities for-- .this, Cftyo I think.. this regional. auditorium has a `tremendous-longTrun,aspect of City use as well as'private and public use...i ' think it is, a very, valid` suggestion- if the Council wants to'wefgh it is that this report should be turned over to the Parks and Recreation Commission for them to have a joint meeting with the Planning Commission NOCIM Co C. 1/18/65 Page Thirty -Four S.R.I. AUDITORIUM FEASIBILITY REPORT - Continued and let them make the analysis. This would give.them an opportunity • to develop a multi -fold auditorium., This would also keep it alive. Mayor Snyder: It was commented to me by participants in the theater - in -the -round tonight that this study had some influence on their move to come to West Covina. In effect, it has paid off already. Mr. Ed Perkins: We enjoyed working with the City of West Covina and hope we will have the chance to serve you whenever your time schedule seems fit to do so. Motion by Councilman Nichols, seconded by Councilman Krieger, and carried, that this report from S.R.I. be referred to the Parks and Recreation Com- mission for a joint meeting with the Planning Commission to come out with specific recommendations to the City Council on this matter. OVERNIGHT PARKING Planning Director, Mr. Joseph: trailer parking and the second issue parked on a public street overnight, mendation that between the hours of •permitted on a public street. This cetera. City Manager, Mr. Aiassa: The Commission wrote two reports for you. One was on boat and had to do with any kind of vehicle The Planning Commission made a recom- two and five in the morning they not be would facilitate street sweeping, et parking in the R-1 area but there is a person can make a room out;of their street. Planning Director, Mr. Joseph: There is one other suggestion. We do permit some off-street nothing stipulated anywhere where garage and place their cars on the That has been taken care of. Commissioner Gleckman: The idea was to discourage that type of parking in the R-1 and R-A zones. We didn't take it into the multiple zoning because quite a few of the apartment houses were built prior to our present standards and we may be creating a tremendous hardship to them where we couldn't see where it would create a hardship in the R-A, R-1 accordingly. Chairman Fast: The street sweeping reason is very valid. Our present ordin- ance says that no car shall be parked over 72 hours in any one spot. To get proof that it has been there for 72 consecutive hours is .11,a d but it does interfere with street weeping and this is quite a problem in R-1 areas. If the*Police Department feels a car has been left there for a long time they can come out there at three o'clock in the morning and find out if it is not supposed to be there and cite it. The 72-hour thing is hard to enforce because you can't prove it has been there for 72 hours. Mayor Snyder: I can foresee a segment of our population protesting such an ordinance and l have to answer to them. -34- 0 r Cd Cd ' 1/18/65 OVERNIGHT PARKING - Continued Page Thirty -Five City Manager, Mr, Aiassa: They have made an alternate plan so that alternate nights or weeks you can only park on one side of the street and other nights on the other side so nobody would be deprived of street parking.. -The pro- tests from the citizens .vary, One City had to do'that because there was a great deal ®f abuse of the street.parking also there wasn-'t sufficient off- street parking to accomodate the..R-2 and R-3 zones. Councilman Heath; is the reason we want to do away with overnight parking for street cleaning purposes only? Commissioner Gleckman: I think we have a multiple amount of problems and I cite one where the man next door to me has two automobiles, has a garage and leaves his car on the street, The neighbor across the street complains because he has to go to work at six o'clock in the morning and must back out of his driveway and with that car there twice now that car has been hit and he still is parking his car there and I think you are going to find this in a lot of our City streets, a lot of our residential sections, and I think this is aproblem, Councilman Heath: Commissioner Gleckman: Mayor Snyder: I can't believe this rule or law is being imposed so everybodv can back out of drives, There are many examples, Another is hindrance of view, Councilman Heath: I find it hard to justify where if we put in this type of a law that a man living in a R-1 house can't park his car out in the street but come down the street to R-3 and he is able to park in the street, Chairman Fast: The City of West Covina has an off-street ordinance, We want our parking off the street, We have to do everything we can to encourage off-street parking especially in residential areas, On that basis we are trying to encourage them to do something that will make sense from the standpoint of enforcement to keep the habitual parkers off the street, The man who takes his car to work in the daytime isn't going to leave his car on the street, The man who uses his garage at night isn't going to leave his car on the street, Councilman Heath: We should try to upgrade our parking plans, et cetera, but justify to me why a man who lives in an apartment and the parking spaces in the back are limited, why is he either more privileged to park in the street than the man who lives two houses away in a R-1 zone? Commissioner Gleckman: We are talking about that you have multiple development or apartment house dwellers that are in apartments built before our present parking ordinance, We cannot turn around and make this ordinance work by constantly citing these people, Councilman Heath: If you want to upgrade the City then I think we should say all cars in the residential areas, -35- 11 0 C, C, 1/18/65 OVERNIGHT PARKING —Continued Page Thirty -Six Chairman Fast: I would be in favor of it but we didn't think R-3 and R-4 would be enforcible from the standpoint of all the problems involved,, Mayor Snyder: How many apartments would be involved in this? Chairman Fast: Bandy Street is the one I think of, Other than that our parking standards have been upgraded, Planning Director, Mr, Joseph: Back in July of 1964 the motion was made by Councilman Krieger, seconded by Councilman Jett, and carried, that this matter of overnight vehicle parking feasibility and recommendation be referred to the Planning Commission for study and report back to the City Council, This had to do with overnight parking of vehicles on public streets, On November 20, 1964 the Planning Commission wrote a memo to the City Council that states that they �-?ish to recommend to the City Council that they gave careful attention to this problem of overnight parking of vehicles and the staff prepared a report and submitted it along with the Engineering Department and Police Department reports and these indicate that further action should be taken on overnight vehicle parking, The Planning Commission also reviewed the memo of the Traffic Committee dated April 25, 1963 add-' ressed to the City Council and this recommended consideration of prohibited overnight vehicle parking in the streets, You didn't stop at R-A and R-1. The motion was parking of all forms of vehicles on City streets be prohibited between the hours.of two and five in the morning, This includes commercial, You had a memo from the Engineering Department dated November 18, 1964 that stated restriction on overnight parking would be beneficial to ;street sweeping operation and a uniformly job of sweeping cannot be done where cars are parked. along a curb, It is recommended that truck and trailer parking be limited,. We have a memo from the Police Chief dated November 18, 1964 re this matter also, The Traffic Committee report is dated April 25, 1963 and ,.addressed to the City_ Council and states recommendations relating to this matter, Mayor Snyder: City Manager, Mr, Aiassa: re-evaluate this with the City Attorney, Councilman Heath - Mayor Snyder: If this was passed would this require posting of these streets? That was the original problem, The only thing we can do is The City of Alhambra has this law but they don't have it posted, I think we couldn't have a stronger recommendation or a more unanimous recommendation, -36- • 11 Co Ca ' 1/18/65 'OVERNIGHT PARKING - Continued Page Thirty -Seven Councilman Nichols: I am opposed to this recommendation. I believe in the feeling behind it, I am aware that in some neighborhoods the street gets cluttered but I am opposed for two reasons, I think there are alternatives that we could have explored that we didn't explore because all of the city departments went down one line of thinking in their recommendations. Those alternatives would include an abandoned car ordinance that would have certain definitions for a length of stay and as a result of citizens' complaints would enabel the City to take action, Secondly, I feel in all sincerity that in this City knowing the number of cars and the number of families, many.of my friends have three cars in the family and that it is a law that we absolutely could not enforce without creating such a stink in this City that we would all be hiding and I don't think we should even vote on this until after the bond election, Councilman Heath: The City of Alhambra went the same route and they found out that in certain parts of their city there were problems so the next thing they -came along with was all you had to do was go down to the police station and say you have a hardship situation and you get a permit and these people are allowed to park on the street, Mayor Snyder: This wasn't recommended, Councilman Heath: This is.what will happen because we have problems in the City, Councilman Krieger: Simple mathmatics indicate that three Councilmen have already spoken out against this which would constitute a majority, Mayor Snyder: I would agree with Mr, Nichols about an abandoned car ordinance, Motion by Councilman Krieger, seconded by Councilman Nichols, and carried, that the report on overnight parking be received and placed on file, (Mayor Snyder voted "No",) NON -CONFORMING SIGNS City Manager, Mr, Aiassa: 'This is concerning a problem of the-Applicance.City and the sign is existing and reviewed by the City Council at another meeting, Planning Director, Mr, Joseph: Mayor Snyder: This is a memo dated December 22 regarding this matter, (Read said memo,) Were these signs painted on prior to the ordinance making them non -conforming? Planning Director, Mr, Joseph: I have no way of knowing that, Under the new sign provisions we have there would be a permit but I don't know about these signs, -37- C1 • C, C, 1/18/65 NON -CONFORMING SIGNS Continued Page Thirty -Eight Mayor Snyder: Does the new sign ordinance require those existing signs prior to this ordinance to be painted out? Planning Director, Mr, Joseph* Councilman Jett: It doesn't have an abatement program attached to it, There is no law against painting a sign on a building, Planning Director, Mr, Joseph: I didn't say that, I said that painted signs -on the building are construed and counted as part of the allowable signs on the building, Councilman Jett: You say there is no ordinance where you have the signs painted on a building, there is nothing in the.ordinance that would compel you to paint the sign out, remove it or anything? Planning Director, Mr, Joseph* If a sign was painted on the building subsequent to February of 1960 or 1961 and the signs were in excess of the signs permitted by code and they are on the outside of the building they become non -conforming and they are not permitted, In that case the enforcement officer has the authority to go and request that these signs be eliminated, Mayor Snyder; It does not apply to those painted prior to that date, Councilman Nichols* Isn't there a difference between non -conforming and illegal and signs that were painted on the side of a building prior to the enactment of an ordinance are non -conforming and signs painted subsequent to that are not only non -conforming but illegal? Mayor Snyder* If they were painted on the building prior to that then under the present law we have no authority to demand that they be painted out unless they come in with new signs, Planning Director, Mr,.Joseph* Or the use terminates for a period of six months, Mayor Snyder* I think in'the interest of fairness we should allow Mr, Gleckman to make a statement as to the facts as he sees it regarding this matter, Councilman Jett* Mayor Snyder: I don't think we are quite through discussing this, I will ask him a question, Mr,. Leonard Gleckman The signs on Appliance City Appliance City are non -conforming but their are not illegal since they were painted prior to the sign ordinance but since Councilman Jett made an issue of this and said because I was a Planning Commissioner I was Co C, 1118/65 Page Thirty -Nine NON-C'ONFORrTTNG SIGNS - Continued receiving special treatment which again I have only been on the Planning Commission a year and a half so the signs were up before I was appointed to the Planning Commission, they have now been removed because of the issue Mr. Jett made, Thank you, But, they didn't have to be removed legally, Councilman Jett: This is not just only one building that is in the City that has this same situation, I think it applies. to all, If we are going to make one comply I think everyone who.has the same situation should have to conform to. it. If we have an ordinance that states specifically what can and cannot be done I think it is the City Manager's job to enforce that ordinance, City Manager, Mr, Aiassa: We have now transferred the administration of the signs to the Building Department and we will inventory every sign in the City and those that are' non-conf orming *ill -be reviewed legally as to the time, -,,.,limit be..put on them to become conforming or ordered to be removed. Councilman Heath: I would like to liken this ordinance to a speed traffic ordinance, In a speed traffic ordinance if we change a speed of a zone from 35 to 25 and for the past five years I have been going down the street at 35.miles an hour I now have to go by the ordinance the way it is written at this time, If we go to a new sign ordinance there are certain signs put up before we adopted the ordinance, Now the ordinance says we must conform to the new ordinance. Doesn't this mean we have to change signs? Mayor Snyder: This is similar to a man who built a store under the old parking requirements and now they are more stringent, This is something entirely different, Councilman Krieger: In our non -conforming uses we have ability in abatement procedure, Do we have ability in abatement procedure in our non- conforming legal signs? Chairman Fast: This w&s apparent earlier in the meeting, I would like to refer all of the Councilmen to a statement I made at the end of the vote that the Planning Commission made when we recommended a revision of the sign ordinance to the City Council and essentially it was the fact that the enforcement of the sign ordinance and the situation we have gotten into in this City lies only at the doorsteps of the Planning Commission and the City Council for allowing variances, for allowing deviations from what was allowed, for allowing flaunting of the ordinace* non -enforcement right down the line, Existing signs don't conform and if variance is given for another perpendicular sign and the sign on --the building is allowed to remain* this hashappened time and time again. I appreciate the comments that are being made and I hope it is made in all sincerity but believe me the action in the past has not shown the statements that are being made tonight about wanting to enforce the sign ordinances in the City of West Covina, We have seen too much of the opposite, 111CILSIS I] E3 C, C, 1/18/65 Page Forty NON -CONFORMING SIGNS -.Continued, Councilman Nichols: I think your point is well taken, As far as the variances are concerned, certainly it is the responsibility of the Planning Commission and the Council to make a determination of whether that variance would be granted but certainly it isn't the responsibility of the Planning Commission or the City Council to examine the building to see if there are non -conforming signs there, The staff has a level of responsibility in policing and enforcing the ordinances that do exist so I think probably the very valid criticism that you levy in a constructed sense goes all the way around the clock in this instance, Mayor Snyder: I believe there is one unique problem related to the sign ordinance and it is similar to architectural design of buildings. I think signs by their very nature involve a certain degree of design and creativity which is hard to set down in an ordinance so how do you write an ordinance to allow for those signs that may exceed the limitation but still are aesthetically all right? This is very difficult to write into an ordinance and I think the reasons you gave for some of the variances are true but I think some were given for this reason, Chairman Fast: Commissioner Kayser-, you take into consideration consideration where everyone situation to other areas and I don't feel that no variances should have been granted, If you write.into the ordinance anything of that nature where any architectural aesthetics you run into a has his own architectural acceptable therefore it should be acceptable there,. Mayor Snyder: I am looking for a way to write it in there and overcome even this, I don't know how it could be done, Commissioner Kayser: If you write the ordinance and then people who want variances let them come to us and let us decide the aesthetic sense Councilman Jett: I don't think that we as members of the Council should attempt to dictate to some party who has spent years in schooling and preparing. himself to draw signs and making signs that we should sit up here and completely unqualified other than just a matter of our our personal opinion tell this man that the sign he has come up with is unacceptable to us$ that we object to it because we don't like it, I have always been against this and I think this is one of the problems that has created so many requests for variances, simply because personal opinion, not based on fact, and I don't think there is anyone who is qualified.to tell a man who does this for a living how to do it, Mayor Snyder: I don't think there is any action required on this, Councilman Krieger: I have a question as to whether or not the abatement of the non -conforming .-- if it is in the present code or the proposed change, Planning Director, Mr, Joseph: It is in neither, - 4 0 - - U 0 I C, C, 1/18/65 NON -CONFORMING SIGNS - Continued Councilman Krieger: MERCED AVENUE ALIGNMENT City Manager, Mr, Aiassa: Mayor Snyder: WATER DECISION Councilman Krieger: Page Forty -One I will bring this up again when we have our study session. Mr, Jones said he would try to be here tonight but had a conflict meeting. Since he has not showed up we will not discuss this tonight, I would like to review this matter, Back in April when you first appointed me to this co -chairmanship with Councilman Jett I had the opportunity 'to review all of the Council Minutes having to do'with water going back to May of 162, In particular, I was interested in the summary as to the.Council's thinking, I want to say this in a manner that will not upset anybody on the present Council that was on the past Council but, gentlemen, I can point to Minutes here over the last two years concerning every member of this Council that is in contradiction to what they said at some other time so let's not go back because if we do there are statements in the Minutes that will suggest that you have changed your mind again, This is a question of trying to go forward from where we are. There were nine specific points as I am able to itemize them that were Dresented.at a water resources committee meeting which seemed to generate the attitude of the Council toward the San Gabriel Valley Municipal Water District, These nine points are representation on the board control of water by allocation from the State, cost of acquiring supplemental water., the possibility of still joining Metropolitan water District through the Upper San Gabriel Valley.Water District, Leeds, Hill and Jewett's report, higher quality water for domestic use, the local taxpayers will not be burdened with old back taxes, Metropolitan Water District has proposed too numerous and complicated annexation methods and the State has given us definite assurance of a water allocation, That was November 6, 1963, Councilman Heath: That was after the Upper San Gabriel annexation? Councilman Krieger: Yes, With those points in mind, I attempted to go through the material that was available to me, Themost recent item that we have is from the Assistant.City Engineer, December 31, which illustrates to my way of thinking the fact that West Covina is not through the San Gabriel Municipal plater District or the Upper San Gabriel District or the Metropolitan Water District going to be the master. of. their own destiny in this whole water field. This goes to the question of representation, As you know, the State.made the decision to construct the west branch along the.so-called Piru-Pvramid route, -41- • C, C, 1/18/65 WATER DECISION - Continued Mayor Snyder: Page Forty -Two We never said we would be master of our. destinv, Councilman Krieger: Here is a map which is a fairly close representation of the proposed routes for the west branch, for the east branch and for the Foothill Feeder (indicating), The Assistant City Engineer commented that by the adoption of this west branch along the Piru-Pyramid route that this will increase the cost to most water contractors, however, will receive a substantial decrease in cost because it does not use the Antelope division, At adoption of the Piru-Pyramid route instead of the Elizabeth Lake Canyon route will result in an increased allocated cost to the City of West.Covina of $110,000, The M,GI,D, will have a decrease cost of $11,312,000, Of our 884 acres we presently have in the Pomona Valley Municipal Glater District or in the Baldwin Park Municipal T,later District, this is M,11,D, Let's go to the question of cast, We have a report having to do with the historical formula, This was a letter to then Mayor Barnes dated January 9, 1964 from Mr, Jensen and he stated that the historic formula would call for a total payment of $392979000 spread over. a 30-year period which would result in an annexation charge of 13� for �-1est.Covina, The difference between that and the Carroll formula would mean that our annexation would be $80457,000 under the Carroll formula and our annexation charges alone would be about 31�, There is no question even in the eyes of the Metropolitan Water District that this is not an equitable formula as far as West Covina is concerned. Using the selected years for the historical formula there is a comment by Mr. Jensen having to do with the relative applications of these two formulas, In his letter to Councilman Heath in October of 1962 he said the historical method would be of particular benefit to West Covina because of its rapid.growth in recent years, Regarding the question of the control that they could exercise over our water rights, here is a report of Leeds, Hill and Jewett that was made for the San Gabriel Municipal Water District and in Section 355 1/2 of the ?,later Act the right of S,G,V,M,W.D, would exceed its demand for supplemental water except possibly for the first year of membership, There has never been an instance .where this allocation theory has been applied in the history of M,W,D, and the consultants for the San Gabriel District. admit if it were applied, if there was some contingency that they would have to apply it, if it were applied any time after the first year of annexation that their rights would exceed the amount of the allocation that M.W.D. could cut them to, Regarding the action of the City Council on April 2291963, this Council adopted a resolution, four voting "Aye" and there was one absent, The vote of the Council at that time was that the City Council declares it'to be the policy to favor and to support based upon Mr, Montgomery's report the .annexation to the Metropolitan Water District for all that part of the City of West Covina not now within said district, 884 acres are.already in that district, It was conditioned that said Metropolitan [later District through its Board of Directors consent to and permit such annexation under the historical formula, et cetera; that such annexation can be accomplished by annexation to the Upper San Gabriel Valley Municipal Water District upon fair and reasonable terms and conditions mutually acceptable to the City Council of'the City of -42- Ca C. 1118/65 WATER''DECISION - Continued Page Forty -Three West Covina and to said Metropolitan r^,,later. District, At the com- pletion of my report I am going to suggest that we go back to the resolution of April 22, 1963 and readopt it because I.believe that statement represents a.fair evaluation of what is best for the City, As far as costs are concerned, the Metropolitan Water District wrote Councilman Heath in October of 1962 itemizing the amount of the basic tax rate breakdown for annexation purposes and they indicated at that time that this was broken down for 5� general purpose levy, 2� public charges.levy and 7� bond issue, I indicated in a letter based upon a lower assessed valuation that Metropolitan's valuation of what our annexation charges would be would be 13�. I checked with the Upper San Gabriel District as to what they are doing in the situation andI understand from them that their total charges are running 33� per hundred. That is based upon an operating back annexation of 19�, The current operating is 14� and the 14� is broken down for these three items: General purpose levy which has to do with the construction of new facilities, 5�; 2� government.charges which has to do with the repayment of U. S. Government financing; and 7� which has to do with the bond levv which can be used only to meet Metropolitan's obligations arising out of the interest of Metropolitan's issue of Colorado I -later River bonds, •Let's go to the question to why the' Upper San Gabriel finally turned to Metropolitan, T-,Then they first started -out the Upper and the San Gabriel group were one and the four decided to go their own route and the 14 decided to cast their lot with Metrpolitan. You all remember the meeting we had with the Upper San Gabriel group and they indicated the manifest reason that they decided to go with the Upper had to do with the Foothill Feeder and this is further amplified in a quarterly meeting of. the Upper San Gabriel at Eaton's Restaurant on August 1291964 when the statement was made that we suggested to the people to join P?,�^1,D,, which they did, Now M,W.,D, proposes to build the Foothill Feeder on this side of the mountains. This means we can get raw State water, With respect to the effect of the Carroll formula on West Covina and the position that M,W,D, could in good conscience take., there was a letter directed to Mayor Ferguson of Monrovia from Mr. Jensen and in his letter Mr, Jensen made the following statements:' "Metropolitan has felt that the advantages of a solidified and united Upper San Gabriel Valley."Iunieipal Water District were so great that the accomplishment of this result should be a major.objective of all concerned, The use of the Carroll formula would not be especially burdensome on the San Gabriel Valley Municipal Water District although it would be unnecessarily severe on West Covina," The next point has to do with tax rates, On August .27 there was a meeting of the Board of Directors of the San Gabriel IJater Municipal ' a.s+:rict and a report was stated that a tax rate based on assessed valuation of secured property was adopted at 15,51� per hundred, This along with the tax on unsecured property will raise $3830000. This budgeted amount °..ncludes a sum for the annexation election of G?est Covina, There was a letter written to Mayor Barnes on February 14, 1963 and th4_s was in answer to certain specific questions that he raised and it came from the San Gabriel Water District and was over the signature of Dr, Wood and thev included the estimated tax rates and the water charges for the district as of February 13, 1963, In 19.64 they projected them at 20,7� and in 1965 to 23,5�; In 1966, 27.,7�; in 1967, 30,6�; in 1968, 33,7�; in 1969, 35�; -43- Co.CO 1/18/65 Page Forty -Four 'WATER DECISION - Continued in 1970, 41,2�; in 1975, 70,7�; in 19802 69,5�; in 1985, 65,1�; to 1990 they have 64,5�, We are talking about figures on both sides of the fence, We are not going to avoid financial responsibility by casting our lot with one group or another, Regarding the supplemental c-.ater, this seems to be a question as to the 1972, Mr,Holburt in his report and in his findings concludes that the district is going to be able to provide it upon two assumptions, and the assumptions are that they can work out this matter of reclaimed water. until. 1972 and that thev can work out a pumping agreement cai.th the other users until 1972 and th3-1: would allow them to get the amount of water that they need, These are two fairly large assumptions, There is no question that if there are water needs before 1972 that there is going to be water available from the Pletropolitan Water District even under the United States Supreme Court decision because this cutback really isn't going to start biting until 1975 so there will be in a pinch before 1972 water Available through M,W.D. I think there are two problems involved before one can be as confident in his answer having to do with the San Gabriel group, This also raises one additional Doir.:.t and that is ultimately there is going to have to be an ajud.ication of this basin and if we get involved :in an adjudication of this basin it will involve the same type of litigation that was before the courts in the Long Beach suit and you all know how long that thing has dragged out and this is not a typical, this is typical of this type of adjudi- cation, I would not like to see West Covina either rowing its own oar at the time of adjudication such as this or in a small boat at the time of an adjudication such as that to determine what our rights are going to be in this basin, With respect to the cost of reclaimed water, I have statistics. and there is no use belaboring it right now as to the acre foot projections of the t-,an Gabriel group and they run all the way to 16 to 18 dollars per acre foot to 30 dollars per acre foot, This $30 was the last- figure that was given to us but they have previous Minutes that suggest it .would be from 16 to 18 dollars, I also think there is a point of diminishing return with the San Gabriel group as we presently stand having to do with the differences, not just geographical, but inherent differences in the cities as thev are presently constituted, each having their or,•m muni- cipally owned and operated water.companies, Right no,.,, don't have that, Right now there will be a dichotomy of interest as we go fors-?ard in the various areas, particularly in reclaimed water, as to what they are trying to achieve and what we may be immediately tr-;irg to achieve and where the cost basis and the cost breakdown would be as far as our City is concerned, As far as the Local Agency Formation Commission is concerned, we had a hearing before then.,, and they had a staff report that oas submitted to them -and I think there was some interesting language i.n this staff report, This is May 139 1964: "However, at the present time the San Gabriel Valley Muni.cipal Water District does not provide its members with any water. It is a paper organization which will function only to provide supplemental water," "They aren't aware of the fact they may have to get into the field of trying to provide reclaimed water for their members,." -44- C. C, 1/18/65 Page Forty -Five WATER DECISION - Continued "The State water will be taken by aqueduct to an area near San Bernardino, The water v7.111 be dis- charged into spreading grounds, The member agencies of the district will extract the water through present pumping systems taking out an amount equal to that that was originally discharged, "The Upper San Gabriel Municipal Water District has also negotiated a contract with the State for supplemental water, However, as a member district of M,WD, it also has available supplemental water from the Colorado River, On the policy level it is neither opposed nor in favor of the annexation. However, some of the administrative officials of the M,W,D, offer from a practical point of view the whole Los Angeles; metropolitan area should be under one district," "'.Ihe argument by the Upper San Gabriel Municipal Water District that is not logical to have an additional water district made up of four separate entities within the boundary both political and geographical of an existing district has some merit, However, it does not appear that this would have an adverse effect on the operation of either district or any other adjacent jurisdiction. The logic concept of self-determina.ti_on dictates that the City'of'TAlest Covina be able to choose its own source • of water supply or, for that matter, the source or any other natural resource," Mr. riontpomery's report was submitted to the .City Council in November o.f. 1962, On Page 9, Table 2 is his comparison of total cost, isle have a Stetson report which was the first one in October of 1962 and on Page 34 he states: "Through 1992 the average unit cost and the accumulated annual_ cost of water .through a State contract- and throu;�h annexation to m,W,D, are about equal, This that 30-year projection, Assuming the M,W,D, policy on replenis:nment :Ls continued at a rate of about $14 per acre foot less than the way for other untreated water the cost of- water from M,.W,D, would be as shown on Plate 6 and 7, about $34,0009000 less than the cost of"State contract water.through 1992. At a longer period water of the same quality can be obtained at lesser cost through annexation to M,W,D, than through a contract with the State," Regarding Mr, Montgomery's report which came in in November of 1962 he states, "The figu.res developed in this report indicate the less expensive and therefore probable most desirable method for the City of West Covina Vir, attain water supply would be for the City to join the Metropolitan !-dater District of Southern California, It is -believed that the City would be allowed to have its annexation charges to Metropolitan Water District computed by the historical. method," "I.f the City cannot 1.nr-c,c under the historical method the City should re-evaluate tr'_e co t of alternate methods" and we made the same recommendation two years later, On Page 6 it is apparent "that the City o t,,Jlest Covina would realize the less expenditure for back taxes If �t mere to jo-*n Metropolitan Water District on the }oasis 7,f the histo-'.cal method rather than trying to join Metropolitan Water District thr.o�.1 h one or the two larger districts and accompanvi.ng one or both of the t ao larger districts in that West Covina growth and accompanv.i.ng high assessed ',.Ialuati on have occurred very recently whereas the other San Cabrie Valle�., units particularly the cities that comprise the San Cabri el. 1"Titer Di_strict have had a more gradual gro,.Tth since V,--tropolitan Water District was formed," This goes back to the fact that =f we do go --,an -45- • I C, C, 1/18/65 WATER DECISION Continued Gabriel and then decide we are i M,W,D, the historical formula is West Covina with that group than San Gabriel group realizing the Gabriel group and ours, Page Forty -Six n the wrong boat and want to get into going to be more disadvantageous to it would be alone or through the 'Upper difference in growth between the San Then on Page 9 I refer you to the difference in acre foot for 75 years between going to these different districts, The closest we come to arguments in.support of joining the San Gabriel group are contained in this report of Leeds, Hill and Jewett but I would like to ;,refer you 'to certain statements made in this report, particularly on Page Roman numeral seven - one, If you want to stop in 1.990 you I•,ave possible savings, If you want to take these projections and I don't know �.Jiv we are supposed to stop in 1990, the longer term projections under his repor,t.also are more favorable to M,WD, "The savings indicated above are predicated on the assumption that San Gabriel would be able to spread water for storage under ground and to recapture an equivalent amount by pumping for use, This is the very issue, Thibroadest' possible is the broadespossible assumption that we are asked to make here, Should this prove im- possible thereby making it necessary. for San Gabriel to build a treatment plant for State water and a system for. transmission of treated water to the member cities but if they.must build their own treatment plant and a system the present worth of water service under the State contract would increase 3,2 million over the 164-190 period and 4,4 million for the 1964-2035, "Annexation would be•cheaper for the longer period without considering any cost for the replacement of the Colorado River supply," Until 1972 we will be operating.under certain assumptions that are improbable and in 1972 we will inherit certain other assumptions that are going to be improbable and we are going to be in this water business with these problems not just of West Covina but the problems that we are going to inherit from the en -ire San.Gabriel group from this point on, It .seems to me that to buy these possible savings with thE! probable consequences and with -the inherent problems that this group is going; to face and that we are going to face as a member of' this group suggests to me that there are many other factors for consideration here except a possible savings, I have discussed immediate replenishment so there is no use of going into further data that I have here, This statement was made to the Local Formation Agency by Mr, Holburt: "Service to the San Gabriel Valley Municipal Water District from the State project aT. proposed rests on two assumptions -- that the member cities will be allowed to increase pumping from the ground water basin to meet the, .,r, growing demands and, two, that San Gabriel. has the right to place i.-1.7-V)rted water underground storage and pump an equivalen� amou,•t at a later date for use," This .s conc�--.dEd -�ha-t we are going to have thrys problem both, until, and after 1972, T have commented again to this question of adjudication, I have commented on the differences as far, as the valuations as to what recla-imed water would cost assur.iing than: we need it, I have commented as to this question of whether or not our water quote can be cut off by M.W. D, -46- • • I Ca Ca 1/18/65 WATER DECISION - Continued Page Forty -Seven As far as this representation is concerned, I will have to concede, gentlemen, that ourstrength, our voting strength will be greater on the San Cabr-iel Board of Directors than it will be on Upper San Gabr.ial District or M.W.D. but what good is it going to do us if we are in an outfit that.-ae are not happy with and that we are not going to be able to solve our problems with? What good is this type of representation? This represents an investment and'T suggest as individuals that ifyou rTere investing in a profit -making enterprise and your motivation would .still be.a.s to how much profit they are going to make and not whether or not you are going to be elected by virtue of your stock holdings to the.Board of Directors, T think it is more important to the citizens of the City, As far as high quality water, I don't quite understand this.point, If we need water until 1972 we are going to beg or borrow it wherever we can and if we get it through M.W^ D, it would come down the Colorado, After 1972 the primary source of water is going to be.Feather River, As far as the State assurances are concerned, the fact is this: We know that we had a State water contract and I think it was a very wise decision this Council took in.entering into this contract because it represents a negotiable instrument for us in our bargaining,. But, as far as availability of water is concerned, the State knows that as a contracting agency that -,we are going to have to do something to get water to us. The four openings we have before us are to proceed with the annexation election in this City; to proceed through the local agency formation commission to possible join annexation to Upper San Gabriel District to Metropolitan; to continue to do nothing; or to enter into negotiations with the State water people as to a joint powers agreement on their line, I feel that the first and the easiest thing to check off is not doing anything because we are slowly reaching the point where we have to do something, They recognize that West Covina is going to.do something, that they have to do something and all Mr. Warne asks is that we do it, regard less of what it is, As far as the San Gabriel people are concerned they have the right to a decision by this City as to where they are going, In fact at their last Board of Directors meeting they indicated that a letter will be sent to this City asking for a decision within 30 days of whether or not we want to proceed with the annexation election or whether we want to enter into a con- tract with them to use their water line, They are entitled to a decision, More importantly, the people of this City are entitled to a decision; I feel as I stated to you weeks ago that looking at this fresh with everything that was available to me, weighing the considerations that were in the balance without malice, without premotivation, without criticism of anybody who has had anything to do with this, if we can get -into the M-,W,D, and in on terms no less favorable than the Upper San Gabriel District annexed to M,W.D. and if we can get in on the historical basis on a projection of 75 years, it is my opinion that at least we will be even and with the possibility of being ahead through M,W,D. without becoming involved.as a minor party or as a third party in a litigation that is bound to result, Being aligned to a group that we know is going to fill the basic and immediate need that we have and that is to get that water the 45 miles to our -47- C, C 1/18/65 WATER DECISION - Continued Page Forty -Eight • Cityeven though it is coming f g g rom.the opposite direction using the Foothill Feeder, I think the basic responsibility of this Council is to get water here, Every other consideration is secondary. In placing our decision I think we have to take into consideration each one of the questions that motivated the Council on the best possible basis in the past but also update them as far as what our present evaluation of the probibilities of the situation are, In conclusion, my opinion is that at an early appropriate date this Council ought to set in motion a resolution similar to the one that was adopted in April of 1963 specifying the terms of acceptability as far as this Council is concerned for joint annexation to the Metropolitan Water District and to the Upper San Gabriel Valley Municipal 1,!ater District, As far as timing is concernnd, we would have to go through the Local Agency .Formation Commission, we would have to hold an annexation election, and if the wheels were even set in motion immediately it is still a question of four to five months before these steps are completed, Mayor Snyder: T recognize the fact that this City will probably go M,W,D, but.quite frankly tonight I am not ready to vote "Yes" on such a resolution. I will, of course, go along with the"majority of the •Council in any action they take but I think we all recognized all of the problems you ennumerated regarding San Gabriel Water District even at that time but I think we have tended to amplify the problems and not enough of the advantages of, the San Gabriel ?-dater District, Once we join M,W,D, we become a nonentity.without any voice, I Councilman Heath: I think this is the best report we have ever had, I followed this water deal for five years and I was just in the process of recom- mending that we go r1W[ D, when another individual and I had a dis- agreement and I relinquished my.job at that time to someone else. Anyone who tries to predict anything more than 15 yea.rs.from now is whistling in the dark, I think Mr, Krieger's recommendation is an excellent recommendation and I think we should start the wheels in motion, I would be willing to make any motion you want, Mr, Krieger, to get this moving toward annexation to M,W.D, through the Upper San. Gabriel District immediately, Councilman Krieger: I would suggest this: I have a lot of information available on this subject matter, I have made the report to the full Council, I would like to talk to individual Councilmen between now and the next time we meet so I can answer any specific questions, I would like to see the Council act unanimously in this field, Itis my intention at the next meeting to move for the adoption of a resolution sub- stantially the same as I reported tonight, Councilman Jett: I. too, have put in a lot of time on this and I made the recommendation I did with the information that I had been able to study and I sincerely felt that what I recommended was the thing the City should do, At that time I think the majority of the Council from their studies and the information they had felt the same way, I. am still of the opinion that what we should do is attempt to retain as much control over our future as we possibly can, Looking into the future I think is something we are just sort of dreaming_ about when we think we will have much control, I will go along with your recommendation, whatever it is' based upon this fact: We have to do something about our water, -48- • Ca C, 1/18/65 WATER DECISION - Continued �O Mayor Snyder: REAPPORTIONMENT Page Forty -Nine There will be a proposed resolution prepared at the next meeting, Mayor Snyder: You all got copies of letters from.Senator Reese asking our comments on reapportionment of Los Angeles County, I think we should send him an answer. I:would like to include in the answer that we hope that the Senatorial district will include our whole City and we will not be split between two of them, I think as much as possible these Senatorial districts should be drawn on non-partisan,basis and reflect communities of interest instead of communities of parties, Councilman Nichols: Councilman Heath: Councilman Nichols: ZONING FOR PALMISTRY I think that sentiment is very good, I think we should take a stand in favor of reapportionment, I think you have our permission to send this letter, Councilman Heath: An attorney brought these letters to me today concerning a woman who would like to start a palmistry business in the City, I have a letter from the City Attorney of San Bernardino recommending her, a letter from the Assistant Chief of Police and the City Clerk of San Bernardino9 both recommending her., There is no zoning in the City that permits palmistry, 14hat would have to be done in this case? She would like to know what zone it would be if the Cite Council will permit it in the City and if so I think they should direct the Planning Commission to come up with some action as to what zone it would come i-n. Councilman Krieger: I would like to have an opinion from the "City Attorney in advance of our action, Motion by Councilman Heath, seconded by Councilman Nichols, and carried, that these letters regarding a request for an interpretation of the zoning ordinances re palmistry be forwarded to the Planning Commission who will talk with the City Attorney and determine whether this palmistry can be prohibited in the Cite and if it cannot be prohibited that the Planning Commission come up with a recommendation as to what zone it would be permitted in, -49- Co C. 1/18/65 Page Fifty MISCELLANEOUS - Continued. - RESOLUTION FOR MRS. ROBERT BROWN • Councilman Krieger. I believe.that the Council ought to direct the Mayor to send a letter of sympathy to Mrs. Robert Brown. Mr. Brown was the night janitor and he passed away suddenly last week. Motion by Councilman Krieger, seconded by Councilman Beath, and carried, that the Mayor be, directed to send a letter to Mrs. Robert Brown expres- sing the sympathy of the Council on the death of her husband. Motion by Councilman Krieger, seconded by Councilman Jett, and carried, to direct the City Attorney to draw up an appropriate resolution com- mending Mr. Robert Brown for his services to the City. CITY ATTORNEY°S PRESENCE Councilman Krieger. I certainly think it would be helpful if we had the City Attorney present whenever we had an action taken at a meeting. City Manager, Mr. Aiassa. I would recommend that the Council make recommendations and suggestions and the Mayor to send a letter to the City Attorney and so state and request an opinion to accept or provide an alternate suggestion. • Councilman Nichols, When Mr. Williams was here the last time'he specifically com- mented on discussion we had about increasing the number of meetings and he said he would be sure he had representation here. Mayor Snyder. I will talk to him about it. Motion by Councilman Krieger, seconded by Councilman Jett, and carried, that the Mayor be authorized to direct a letter to the City Attorney requesting his presence at any regular or adjourned meeting of the City Council. TIME SCHEDULE City Manager, Mr. Aiassa. We put together a whole folder on the time schedule on the general obligation bonding program, You might bring this back for the next meeting. We contacted all the consultants and they would like to have a meeting where we can interview each one of these groups of consultants similar as we did with the architects. These are the pub- lic relations and consultants for the proposed bond issue. There will be some additional supplemental data from most of the consultants that will be given at the oral interview period. 0 JOB CLASSIFICATIONS City Manager, Mr. Aiassa. At your next meeting we will have the job classifications. I have a written report for you to review on this matter, _50- r C, C, 1/18,i65 Page Fifty -One MISCELLANEOUS - Continued • PERSONNEL VACANCY STATUS Cj. ty Manager, Mr, .A,iassa, As. of December, 1964 you have had two positions that have not been fully filled,, This report is from the Personnel. Department giving us a status report can Vacancy.' There being no further business9 Motion by Councilman Nichols, seconded by Councilman Jett, and carri ed, that this meeting be adjourned at 1.15 A,M, ATTEST: 1 CITY CLERK APPRO \/ED MAYOR t -51-