12-07-1964 - Special Meeting - Minutesis
MINUTES OF THE SPECIAL STUDY SESSION OF THE CITY COUNCIL
`CITY OF WEST COVINA, CALIFORNIA
DECEMBER 7, 1964
The special study session of the City Council was,called to order by
Mayor Snyder at 8:35 P,M; in the West Covina City Hall,
ROLL CALL
Present: Mayor Snyder9 Councilmen Jett, Krieger, Nichols,
Others Present: Mr, George Aiassa, City Manager (from 8:45 P,M',)
Mr, Robert Flotten, City Clerk 6 Admin, Assistant
Mr, John Q, Adams,.,Publi'c Services Director
Mr, Harold Joseph, Planning Director
Absent: Mr, Harry C. Williams, City Attorney
HOME SAVINGS AND LOAN
Heath
City Clerk, Robert'Flotten: The reason for this meeting tonight is
contained in the following motion:
"Motion by Councilman Krieger, seconded
by Councilman Heath, and carried, that Amendment No, 5 to the Comprehensive
General Plan (City Initiated) and Zone Change No. 319 (Home Savings and
Loan Association) be referred back to the Planning Director for a.staff
report and to the Planning Commission for a Commission report on
Minutes of this meeting tonight and on the exhibits presented to the
Council tonight both by the proponents and the opponents for -'a report
back to the Council at a meeting held on December 7, 19640 for the
sole, specific and express purpose of determining the disposition
of Amendment No, 5-to the Comprehensive General Plan and Zone Change
No, 319.11
This motion was made at the regular
City Council meeting held on November 9, 1964,
Mayor Snyder: This is a study meeting. We are here
to receive the report of the Planning
Commission and the staff, There will not be public p participation
tonight except as individual Councilmen may wish to question members
of the audience, There will not be time allowed for public partici-
pation,
We have a report from the Planning
Commission in response to the motion by Councilman Krieger on November 9
in which this matter of the Amendment No, 5 to the Comprehensive
General Plan was referred back -to the3Planning Director and the
Planning Commission for reports on the exhibits presented to the
Council on the 9th of November,
Planning Director, Mr, Joseph: We have a memorandum to the City Council
from the Planning Commission, The
Commission was aware of the Council's motion and they had the benefit
of the meetings the staff held with other people in the interim, both
representatives of Home Savings and Loan and representatives of home
owners groups,
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'HO*ME SAVINGS AND LOAN - Continued
Page Two
The essence of the recommendation
is contained on the back of Page.2 of the first report' (Gave brief
summary of the report,) The report indicates a summary as to how they
arrived at this decision, the information submitted.to the Planning
Commission from the Planning Department had the summary of the points
made at the City Council meeting, We also supplied.the Commission copies
of the Minutes 'Mr e Adams and I had• o•n. the . 17th , wi;th the home owners and
the staff, In addition to that, there were. Minutes of the meeting at
Pereira's office with .Home,Savings and Loan, the home owners, Mr. Adams,
and myself,
A member of the. Planning Department
reviewed the statistics presented by the home owners at the last meeting,
There were some corrections actually on our statistics but we reviewed
them as submitted to you and we note there is opportunity for give
and take on both sides,
The Planning Commission felt it was
appropriate to consider the.plan.before the Council at this time and
as such maintained its former recommendation to the City Council,
Councilman Krieger -
on Page 3 of the Planning
Department report of December 2
that we are really talking on the chart, we are talking about persons
per residential area?
Planning Director, Mr, Joseph: That is a typographical error,
Councilman Krieger: Could you benefit us with any
explanation as to the difference
between this and the original report?
Planning Director, Mr; Joseph: When the staff originally prepared
its report of October 7 we had sets
of figures that we were working with, Inadvertently one'set of
figures were used on..a gross resident.ial,populatio.n while the other
set was .,on a net residential population,,
Councilman Krieger. On Page 5. .Item 30, under "Social
Economic Zoning", the staff does
not know wherethis contention comes from; "lt as contrary to every
legal basi s` for: zoning"; _ Ob.viQ�ts., 'the contentian..,came from 'some
presentation that was before the Council, Could .y.ou.e aborate,.or.
comment here? ;
Planning
Director, Mr., Joseph: This did' not 'appear at the City
Co'uncil:.mee,ingo,' This part of the
report to the Planning Commission on Pages 1 and 2 are'the points
raised at the City Council meeting, On_Paaes 3, 49.,and 5 are the
comments made at this meeting that Mr, Adams and I,had.on November 1.7
with representatives of. ,the.: lioine 'owners which were submitted to you
on this memorandum dated November 23, On No, 30 for the memorandum
of the 23rd.we noted that the home owners expressed their opinion that
zoning should be determined only on social economic considerations
and we were making a comment to that comment,
Councilman Krieger: Is it your suggestion that if this
were one of the criteria accepted
it would be illegal?
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'HOME SAVINGS AND LOAN - Continued
Page Three
Planning Director, Mr, Joseph::. I.was making reference to the grounds
wherein: zoning is a tool on the
police powers was formulated as an effective guide in controlling the
use of land, We went back to our sources at our disposal and found
that zoning using social.economics or'other personal factors was not
the solid groundwork for having zoning as a tool in'the community,
(Mr, Aiassa entered the chambers.at 8.45 P,M,)
Councilman Nichols: At the.time I sought office to the
Cty.Council of West Covina I
stated as a matter of general policy I wouldattempt to follow the
recommendations of the Planning Commission,_ In'those instances
where I digressed from those recommendations I would attempt to make
my position clear, Tonight I am digressing from those recommendations
quite substantially and will be prepared as the occasion may present
itself to substantiate the reasons for my digression,
I have reviewed both the recom-
mendations for the'Amendment to the General. Plan of the City of West
Covina and the recommendations in respect'to the particular zoning
applications for the first increment of the Home Savings application,
I have done some statistical work
of my own and I would like to call a few of these points to the attention
of the Council.
The density per acre being requestd
by the Home Savings and Loan institute over the entire 1800 acres
represents a 22% increase over the density of the entire residential
development of the City of West Covina at the present time, The
percent of total dwellings for multiple purposes as defined in the
staff analysis represents for Home Savings and Loan's development
74% of all dwellings to be developed in the proposal versus 25% in
the.City of West Covina as outlined on Page 30 of the General Plan
of the City of West Covina and the 25% for the City of West Covina,
The General Plan of the City of West Covina recommends that at the
maximum development in the City of West Covina that no more than
25% of the dwelling units in the City of West Covina ever become of
a multiple nature of any type, The General Plan recommends for Home
Savings and Loan aggregate 74% of the number of units developed over
a 1800 acre development,
The City of West Covina by pro-
jection, the percent of people living in multiple developments in the
City of West Covina would be 17% at its maximum development. The
number of people living in multiple units in the Home Savings and
Loan development by projection through the entire 1800 acres would be
0
68 0,
Coming now to the first increment
of this development, the persons per residential acre living now in the
City of West Covina is 180, The persons per residential acre
projected for the Home Savings and Loan development in the first
increment are 289 a 55% increase over the 350 acres, The percent
of dwellings in the multiple developments are 25% at maximum develop-
ment in this City, The percent in development of the first increment
of Home Savings and Loan institution is 82% in multiple development,
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'Hd'ME SAVINGS AND LOAN Continued
Page Four
The percent of people, I would
remind the Council, at maximum development in the City of West Covina
according to the recommendations of the General Plan is 17% of the
population of this City, In the first increment of this proposal
the projection is 79% of all of the people in this City of the
additional 1800 acres reside in multiple type developments,
I would like to inform the Council
that in the entire 1800 acres of this proposed development 195 acres
out of the 1800 acres are proposed to be zoned for medium density
housing, In the first increment of this representing only one -sixth
of the acreage, 50% of the total projected allottment of medium housing
has been requested for this development, where as only 36 out of 573
zoned R-1 acres are being proposed for R-1 development in the first
increment representing 6% of the potential,
We have talked over the past years
a great deal about our General Plan, The General Plan has stipulated
that the General Plan itself is not a law, that it is subject to
modification, Certainly this I would concur with but I believe the
Council would concur in the thesis that the General Plan is a guide;
that the General Plan does express a philosophy of development,
The staff of this City in prefacing
all of its remarks in the publication presented here came to the very
root of this matter when it stated that the entire matter is predi-
cated upon whether or not this Council wishes to adopt the philosophy
of an increased density of land usage and if so, then the specific
proposals for development meet no objections from our Planning
Department,
It is my position that although
our General Plan is a guide that it does express a philosophy and
that that philosophy is that the City has been, is, and should
continue to be basically a community of single family residences,
It was on this platform that I sought office to the City of West
Covina and it is in this believe which I concur with and maintain today
that I could not and do not support the proposals neither to modify
the General Plan in this concept nor to approve the first increment
as proposed,
Councilman Krieger: I appreciate that Councilman Heath,
Councilman Jett, Mayor Snyder and
myself as well have not really expressed our feelings about this
matter but I do sense a certain amount of frustration in the opportunity
given both to the proponents and the opponents at our last meeting to
express their views. I would think this is such a matter of substance
and importance to our decision and to our reflections.on it that
although this is a study session of the Council we might properly
extend an invitation to those who are with us tonight both for and
against to enlighten us further with matters of substance pointing
to their views for the amendment and the requested.zoning,
Mayor Snyder: I received an opinion from the City
Attorney on this today,
City Manager, Mr, Aiassa: The Council can only hear testimony
but you cannot take any action,
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HOME SAVING'S AND LOAN Continued'
Mayor Snyder:-.S'ince.:this is ;not a public hearing
I think if one side is ,going to
make comments then, the other side` sh'ou.ld have come here prepared to
make comments t think we �shoul�d• ask them ;if they would like to make
commentsa
Councilman Heath:, I.would.;1ike to ask questions before
4
a motion is. put on. the floor`, Mr,
Joseph; 'we 'have heard, in this rept�rt, 'mariy`.numbers., conce"rnirig density
and there, -have been • numbers''quoted' in your report and` quoted ''orally
tonight 'of. such, things as 1-8 ,.. per, acre an'dd' 28 per 'acre,' e•t''cetera;
If this is a comparison ! of the first. increment; of Home Savings against
the entire City of West Covinaas an average; I,don't,thln'k it'is a
fair comparison,. We.:have to admit zn'the'City proper shown on the
General Plan if you Went to the northwest.corner of the City there
would be'a higher density. per acre,'than if,wewent:: to the southeast
corner, If you are•, 'going tomake, a . cr'mp'arison.. of persons per acre on
this increment it should be compared, to a like inorement.in the City
of West Covina rather than an overallaverage,
s In' the proposal by Home Savings
they start with small lot.size at the south end of the tract and
proceed to.A ,larger.,lot,s.ize,,As they.,go to the Inorth, This is their
highest density,-Therefore,.to, :compare this to an'average,of our overall
central .City, I don e't think 'is fair. ,
In these comparisons, is it
density of this first increrent:whzch is'the highest density in this
development compar�ed`to an average of the. entire central section of
our City?
Planning Director; Mr, Joseph: No, The only comparison made along
those lines were of the general
plans themselves, The number of residential acres in the 1962 General
Plan was divided'in to the 'projected population,'
Councilman Heath.. At' the.present time this central
section of the City comes up with
approximately 18 per acre, Has the Planning Department predicted
the number of persons per acre in the City..proper. in -approximately
1.970?
Planning Director. Mr, Joseph: They have not up to this point,
Councilman Heath: The Home Savings plan is a plan
which is•expected to.take five
years and may take;.1 even, and at. ,t) — .time, .it. will have a certain
density .and:the City'of:West.,Covina`proper ha's 18 now and by 1970
we will have much heavier density,than 18,
Planning Director Mr'; Joseph: I can't say "Yes." to either point,
I don't„know what the exact density
%s at the present time,
Councilman Jett: Have'.you a projected •figure of .the
population `that would be,, the
ultimate density of the'City?
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HOME SAVINGS AND LOAN _ Continued
Page Six
Councilman Heath: At the time we accepted the General
Plan there was a projected 67,000
ultimate population, Since that time there have'been,additional '.
annexations of land that could somewhat effect that percerrtageg too,
Planning Director$ Mr, Joseph: In 1962, projected in the General
Plan was 330 acres devoted to
residential use, Anticipated on that number of acres:with 67,000
people any further annexations or change in land is as opposed to what
is shown on the General Plan or any other consideration that would
effect the number of persons would occupy a certain geographical area.
We are comparing the 1962 figure's and comparing them with the guide
presented by Home. Savings and Loan in 1964,
Councilman Krieger: Move that the Council reopen the
hearing for the purpose of giving
the proponents$ the opponents$ and then rebuttal time at the
discretion of the Chair on the matters now pending before the Council ..
with reference to the application of Home Savings and Loan Association,,
Councilman Heath;
Will the Chair ascertain whether
both sides feel this is fair or
not?
Mr, Graham Ritchie: We have people here for the purposes
of answering questions. My concern
is that you had an advertised public hearing as required -under the code
for a zone change and that was closed by the Council, Certainly
people -may have gone home on either side of the question at that time
thinking the public hearing was over with, There has been no notice
to these people in your City that a new public hearing or a.further
public hearing may be held and I question whether it can properly
be held at this time without due notice to the property owners,
We are not here prepared to make
a presentation for this plan, We made several presentations up to
this time, We are here to'answer 'questions,
City Manager, Mr, Aiassa- This is not an adjourned meeting.
Legally, you are not even meeting
as a Council, You are hearing a report from the staff on their
findings on the material submitted at the public hearing,
Mr, Chuck Dowding: We have been roughed up before
because of legal procedures,, I
would suggest that we readvertise the hearing. We have significant
testimony that we want to brine before the Council, We think it is
important that the Council see:.all this evidence but I wouldn't want
to mess around with the legal details,, I would recommend you repost
the item and give everyone the opportunity to show up, I don't
recommend proceeding with this legal haze, We are prepared to give
a presentation but we won't if there is legal haze associated with
this application,
Councilman Heath- If this -is opened and readvertised
at the request of one side or the
other and we open it up and have testimony pro and con, after the
hearing is closed it is no more than right that the opposite side can
come back and say they want to reopen it again and we have to readvertise
and reopen possibly one, two, three more times,, The law provides us
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HOME SAVINGS AND LOAN m Continued
Page Seven
with a procedure whereby we have a public hearing and we have abided
by this procedure and given people ample opportunity to speak, I
think now we should proceed with the hearing, receive this report and
at the next Council meeting make a decision without opening this up
further,
Mayor Snyder: I think we could ask questions as
Councilmen from participants in the
audience but I don't think we can really open it up as a formal hearing,
Councilman Jett: The question in my mind is this:
The matter that is before us at
the present time is the amendment to the'General Plan and the request
for zoning,_ Any information that might be given that would effect
the first increment that was mentioned here could this materially
effect legally our position?
Mayor Snyder:
because we haven't heard it yet,
I would caution the Council on
discussing the first increment
Councilman Krieger: What I am concerned about is a matter
of semantics, I don't believe that
either the proponents or the opponents at our last public hearing had
the opportunity to present their full views, I. heard the views of
the proponents and the opponents at the Planning Commission, If this
Council is going to be asked to make a decision in these areas and
we have the ultimate decision, we must make it and we should have the
full benefit of whatever presentation that can be made, I understood
this to be a study session, I would think in a study session we
should have the opportunity to have whatever information that is
available to be. made available to us and I really don't see where we
have to necessarily engage in a semantic argument as to whether or not
this is reopening a public hearing or anything else, I construe it
simply as a study session and I am less concerned with the form of the
testimony, I think if we are going to spend our time fruitfully we
should have as much information brought out in the open tows as
possible whether we call it reopening the hearing or whether we call
it a bull session or whether we call it a study sessionq or whatever.,
Councilman Heath: This information has been stated to
have been given to the Planning
Commission, Why do we have to hear it again? We have the Planning
Commission's comments and it is our duty to read those Minutes and
we have all that information,
Councilman Nichols: Although the sentiments I have
expressed I would have some vague
idea might disagree slightly from the sentiments Mr. Heath might
express, I certainly would go to the point now of concurring with the
expressed sentiments of Mr. Heath now, that there have been hearings
held. If there is additional information that any people in the.
audience wish to convey to individual Councilmen they are at liberty
to do it at any time, For myself, I would not vote to authorize
additional public participation in the meeting tonight and I say that
in light of very positive statements I have already made here,
ME
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HOME SAVINGS AND LOAN - Continued
Page Eight
Mayor Snyder: Councilman Krieger's motion dies
for lack of a second,
Does the Council feel this report
is complete enough to allow them to come to a decision? Do you feel
any questions to the audience are not necessary at this time? I
would like to ask Mr, Dowding this: You have indicated you have new
evidenced I am not asking you what that new evidence is, I want to
ask you this: Do you feel this is new evidence that you had at the
time of the previous meeting but were not allowed to present it because
of time limitations? Further, is it actual new evidence or a further
interpretation of the facts we already have?
Mr, Chuck Dowding: At our last meeting over 500 of
the information that I wanted to
present I was denied because of timing considerations, Home Savings
and Loan is not quite a third of the City, It is the biggest
application we have had in years, At the last hearing we did speak
to the amendment and the zoning, Our testimony was limited in time,
We didn't have the information from the Planning Commission until
after the night of the last hearing,
Mayor Snyder:
You do feel you have evidence you
were not able to submit because of
time limitations?
Mr, Chuck Dowding:
Very definitely,
Councilman Heath:
In our zoning ordinance, where does
it specify the number of persons
per acre?
Planning Director,
Mr, Joseph: It doesn't specify the number of
persons per acre,
Councilman Heath:
But it does specify lot size?
Planning Director,
Mr, Joseph: Yes, it does,
Councilman Heath:
Before us tonight in this plan the
amendment to the General Plan we
are talking about lot sizes and not persons per acre?
Planning Director,
Mr, Joseph: You are not talking lot sizes in
the General Plan,
Councilman Heath:
The zoning before us tonight has
to do with lot sizes?
Planning Director,
Mr, Joseph: No, The zoning has to do with the
use of the land, As.it stands right
now, the area under
consideration is Area District I, Area District I
would call for approximately
7500 square foot lots, Whether the land
were zoned R-1. R-2
or R-3, the minimum dwelling unit size would
normally say the same,
The question of dwelling units and lot sizes
have come up to the
Planning Commission in other applications related
to this proposal but
it is not before us this evening,
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HOME SAVINGS AND LOAN m Continued
Page Nine
Mayor Snyder: I think the real area of concern is
this proposed amendment to the General
Plan which is proposed to this area, is it compatable with the
General Plan already existing or does it jeopardize that General Plano
That is the essential issue before us, I think there may be unique
factors in this development that would allow some variation and I
think this variation can be allowed'as long as it doesn't jeopardize
our present General Plan,
I personally think we have enough
information before us in the statistics we have to go back and go
through our figures and come back on the 14th-and be'able to make a
decision on this, I don't see that much more information is necessary,
Councilman Nichols: I concur,
Councilman Heath: I would agree,
Mayor Snyder: We will be receptive to receive
additional information on an
individual basis,
WATER PROBLEM
Councilman Krieger: I would like to direct the Council's
attention to this matter of water,
I reported at a late hour three or four weeks ago on a meeting that
I was at where Mr, Warne and Mr, Valentine of the State Department of
Water Resources and Mr, Aiassa discussed the possible courses of
action this Council may take in the future in the water situation,
Just to review briefly the comments
that were made at that meeting by Mr, Warne,. let me say this, The
Council after our meeting with the Upper San Gabriel group suggested
that if I had any questions about Metropolitan's attitude with regard
to annexation I was invited to sit down with Mr. Jensen and I
accepted the invitation of the Council and Mr. Jensen accepted my
invitation and I had such a meeting, When I reported back to the
Council as to certain opinions that I had at that time as to the various
courses of action that were open to us the Council suggested that I
might exercise a similar opportunity and meeting with Mr, Warne of
the State Department of Water Resources and Mr, Warne happened to
be in Palm Springs and on his way back was kind enough to stop at
the City Hall and give us.the opportunity to discuss these operations
and alternatives with him,
Specifically, as you remember there
is a contractural provision in our contract which prohibits without
the consent of the State the assignment of our contract rights to
any other.body, Mr, Warne indicated that the State recognized and
appreciated the unique problems here in West Covina and that they
would not impose any artificial obstacles to the assignment of this
State water contract but the State was most anxious for West Covina
to chart a course of action and to proceed accordingly9 that as one
of the contracting agencies with the State it was imperitive for the
City of West Covina to manifest its destiny in this water situation;
that the State had always anticipated that we would ultimately join
with some larger entity and was not trying to influence our decision
as to what association or group we might align ourselves with, The
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WATER'PROBLEM Continued
prime question was answered by Mr, Warne. that the contractural
provision in our contract with the State does not represent any
obstacle to the free choice that this Council might exercise,
Then Mr, Warne and Mr, Valentine
offered a further observation as to an additional option that might
be available for our consideration and in reporting it to the Council
the last time we discussed this water matter I did not suggest it to
the Council; I submitted it to the Council for your consideration,_
This alternative or fourth option was we might enter into or begin
negotiations toward a joint powers agreement with the San Gabriel
Water District for the purpose of constructing the necessary pipe
line facilities, He only outlined what form this might take and
that would be for each entity, the City and the San Gabriel District,
to contract with a third entity who would do the actual construction
work of the line, He commented that this might be feasible with the
San Gabriel group while he did not believe that there would be any
manifest interest -.on the part of the Metropolitan Water District to
contract with the City of West Covina for this purpose, I think that
is a realistic analysis of what the position of Metropolitan would be
in this particular field,
It does open up an area of dis-
cussion at least for this Council to consider, Therefore, we have
before us as I see it the following possibilities and that is to do
nothing in this field of water other than proceed with the contractural
committments we have with the State, Secondly, to go ahead in spirit
with an annexation election to the San Gabriel District, Thirdly, to
seek concurrent annexation to the Upper District and to the Metropolitan
Water District upon certain terms and conditions that this Council
would predetermine as a basis for our annexation. And fourth, this
suggestion by Mr, Warne that we at least consider the possibility
of a joint powers agreement with the San Gabriel Water District,
Now let me amplify one of the
problem areas as I see it with the San Gabriel District, I believe it
is one of the major problem areas that we have and that is the problem
of convincing not only ourselves but the people that are going to be
asked to vote on this annexation as to the merits of such an annexation
and more specifically, the fact which is a fact, no one can dispute
this, that the San Gabriel group does represent a minority group,
This has in many people's minds a financial advantage that we ought
to seize but it is equally indisputable that there would be great forces
and organized forces at work in opposition to such .an annexation election
and specifically would refer to those giving their allegiance to the
Upper District and to the Metropolitan Water District I would par-
ticularly concern ourselves at this juncture with the psychology of
trying to convince the electorate that cities as geographically
separate as Azusa and Alhambra and Monterey Park and Sierre Madre are
more closely atuned to our ultimate interest in the water situation
than those of all our surrounding cities and those 130 other cities
that are annexed to through their districts the. -Metropolitan Water
District,
In substance, what I am saying is
this: As a sales job it would require a magnificent effort to
convince the people who are voting in such an election that our best
destiny does lie with the San'Gabriel group, One of the advantages
in our consideration of the joint powers agreement is that we would
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'WATER' PROBLEM - Continued
Page Eleven
not be faced with such an election, There would be those who would
say this is something the people should decide but I am wondering
after spending eight months of somewhat conscientious effort in this
field whether or not I and the rest of you who have been in it equally
as long or longer are not also in a position where we might be able
to exercise a little better knowledge as to what we are talking about
so that if the Council individually or collectively are convinced
that the cheaper way, the ultimate way is with the San Gabriel group,
then I would suggest to that Councilman or Councilmen or the Council
that they might well consider as an alternative to that a joint powers
agreement with the San Gabriel Group by which we could forego the
necessity of such a hazardous election, I don't know whether this
would work,
To editorialize, I am concerned
with.the capacity of the San Gabriel group to pull this thing off,
In fairness to Mr, Warne's observations, Mr. Warne and Mr.
Valentine seemed quite convinced in their minds that the San Gabriel
group had it within their capacity to do the job but we have had the
benefit and the opportunity to meet with some of these people, to
analyze other factors than just what might appear in reports and
papers and what we have heard and what we have seen as far as the
past record is concerned, and all these factors have to be weighed
necessarily in arriving at our decision, As long as I have had the
unsolicited benefit of serving on this water committee and evaluating
this and this meeting with Mr, Warne I have given additional thought
to it, Although this represents an option that we can and should
consider it is not an option that I care to exercise, My feelings
and opinions are not materially different than as I last expressed
them to the Council on this subject of water,
Mayor Snyder: We don't know that the San Gabriel
Water District would agree to a
joint powers agreement, Under such an agreement I think we need to
know if we were to go this route could we and is there market enough
for the water to pay for the cost of the line, the State contract,
plus the administrative costs since obviously any bond issue we
pass under this agreement would be a direct City tax and we would,
in turn, be selling the water to the companies. Would we get enough
back in revenue from the water to pay for the cost of the aqueduct
plus the cost of the contract itself? I know.I can't get an answer
on that tonight,
Councilman Jett:
because they have access
basis at the present time
a court decision I don't
Mayor Snyder:
Councilman Jett:
interesting because
recommendation that
the majority of the
over our future as
give us a voice,
I think you would have a difficult
time selling it to the agencies
to it underground, the underground water
and unless we went to court and obtained
think we could charge them for it,
The best way to use the joint
powers agreement is if we owned
our own municipal water company,
This would solve a lot of problems.
This joint powers agreement sounds
it would accomplish one of the phases of the
was made by myself and the observation of, I think,
Council and that was this would give us some control
far as the water is concerned, It would at least
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Ca C, 12i7/64 Page Twelve
'WATER PROBLEM - Continued
Mayor Snyder: This makes even more important our
engineering study on the acquisition
of a water company, It seems to me we are almost compelled to await
that conclusion because I think that would throw a different light on
the different alternatives, I don't think we are going to have too
much longer to wait for that report,
Councilman Jett: I have not had any factual informa-
tion thinking of the facts we used
in making our determinations and I haven't had anything to change any
of the facts presented to me except this alternative, I think the
alternative is a good possibility but the six points on which we made
our decision is the thing I think of,
Councilman Heath: As you all know, I have followed
this water deal for six years and I
have heard all types of arguments pro and con, In all of these
reports that have been presented to you I think you can make numbers
come out any way you want. I feel that there is not a man on this
Council or any of the consultants that we have talked with on either
side of the fence who can give us an accurate story on what this water
is going to cost regardless of which route we go. I sincerely feel
that regardless which way we go the water is going to cost approxi-
mately the same and all the numbers we have so far are erroneous, My
feeling comes down to this: Why do we have to be an oddball? Why
do we have to do things the hard way and go for some Mickey Mouse
contraption of bringing water in to this area? Let's face up to the
issue and be an conformist instead.of a non -conformist because for
being a non -conformist what advantage are we going to have? I can't
see that we will have any advantage,
Mayor Snyder: I agree you can make numbers come
up any way you want, particularly
on these studies, but I think when you ask a professional engineering
group to come up with recommendations, their numbers, although there
may be some shifting in statistics to fit their conclusion, if you
hire a reputable firm they will come up with recommendations on the
facts as they see them, Again, these are professional recommendations,
My statement that the recommendations on our being able to form a
municipal water company merely means this: That since there is this
other alternative open we may be able to fit this in should the
feasibility of a municipal water company prove to be true,
I think we are going to have to depend on the numbers presented by a
professional consultant and in the matter on recommending a
municipal water company, I am not saying the whole weight of the
evidence would be foregoing under the joint powers, Even if we do
form a municipal water company we still may want to go Upper or San
Gabriel, If we are going to throw out the recommendations of the
engineers and merely make our decision from the top of our head then
I think the whole weight of the evidence is with the San Gabriel. Water
Company because obviously the Upper San Gabriel Valley Water Company
and the Metropolitan Water District are being asked to pay for
something from which we receive no benefit. -and will receive no benefit
but we are being asked for something that goes back forty years and
that is the water we received from the Colorado River, You don't
have to pay for that under the San Gabriel District, Mr, Warne has
indicated unofficially it is obviously cheaper to go San Gabriel
Valley Water, All of our engineering reports have indicated this,
The only question here is how sure it isy and the obstacles in putting
it through,
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Ca C, 12/7/64
WATER PROBLEM - Continued
Page Thirteen
My responsibility to the voters
in this matter it seems to me is a pure matter of economics, Right
now I would prefer to wait for the report of our engineering firm,
I may very well agree to go with you on the Upper San Gabriel Valley
Water at that. time. I would not agree at this time except to go
along with the majority of the Council,
Councilman Jett: I think you expressed my opinion,
I think one of the problems here
is we are afraid of the job of trying to put over this election. If we
can't sell the people on an election to something that will save them
money, how can we sell them on a nine -million -dollar bond issue?
Mayor Snyder: If you were to put both of them on
the ballot at this time a very
practical consideration is that the initial tax right off the bat
with the Upper as compared to San Gabriel would be a big deciding
factor,
Councilman Heath: I think there are three points that
are important and should be brought
out, I hope Mr, Jett received the right interpretation from this
group that he met with because some of the members he has talked
about here I have received a different opinion from them, Secondly,
on these reports it shows us that it is cheaper to go a certain way
up until 1990 and beyond 1990 it is cheaper to go another way, What
expert can tell us with all the facets we have in water what is going
to happen three years from now let alone 1990? We are waiting for a
report before we make a decision concerning the feasibility of buying
a water company, I have heard that this is a lucrative business,
You are making money on the citizens of West Covina, I don't feel
we should take -money away from people and hand it back to them and
think we are doing them a favor, Secondly, I think the City should
stay out of the enterprises such as this because the City is supposed
to be a service organization and not a money -making organization in
a gigantic enterprise. The services we have in our City government
should be limited to services and not the actual construction of these
large projects and servicing large projects which can be given to
free enterprise,
Mayor Snyder: The purpose of setting up.a water
company is not to make money on the
citizens of West Covina; it is to serve them better cheaper, Whether
you can do this or not is debatable but I feel that it is, Secoridly,
the argument debate on whether water companies are more properly a
free enterprise than a municipally operated system I thought is
pretty well seized, It is accepted that it is proper for municipalities
to run their water systems, 60% of the cities in California have
municipally operate water systems, My judgement is not being made so
much on the future estimate as it is on the past, I feel if you
forget all the engineer's reports and look at it as it stands in
going Metropolitan and Upper San Gabriel you are being asked to pay
for part of a system which is a system to bring water from the Colorado
River from which we never benefited and from which we will not benefit.
That is the whole difference right there,
Councilman Nichols: I would tend to take issue with the
last statement that we cannot and
never will benefit from a system that we will be paying for. I recall
reading recently that the Secretary of the Interior was flitting about
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C, C, 12/7/64
WATER PROBLEM - Continued
Page Fourteen
the western states recently urging a regional water program which
Governor Brown immediately commented upon which'advocated the dumping
of water by very large ambitious program into the upper Colorado River
and ultimately delivering it down the length of the Colorado River to
the water users on the lower end, even ultimately to the benefit of
our good neighbor to the south, Mexico, so I think it is possible
that this dry ditch conceivably could be�reamortized in some fashion
to be of benefit yet to the southlan,d,
Mayor Snyder: You are going into the future and
I am making my judgement on the past,
You will be paying taxes for what happened in the past, I would not
be opposed at this time to approaching Metropolitan Water District
to ascertain whether we could still obtain the Historical Formula,
I think we need that information,
Councilman Heath: If I interpret this discussion
correctly, you, Mayor, are the
one who feels you need additional information before you are ready to
take a vote, If I read further I believe four other members of the
Council have about made up their minds and all this discussion is just
a lot of lip service going back and forth and I think we could take
a vote on this thing at the next regular meeting,
Mayor Snyder: I thought Mr. Jett and I would like
to have you wait until this study
comes in, I have always felt we should keep all avenues open.
Our responsibility is to get the best system for our citizens within
the limits of practicality and possibility and no agency if they are
a public agency can take punitive measures to any Council who does
that in a responsible manner. To say Metropolitan Water District
would get angry if we continued to keep avenues open with San Gabriel
Water District may be true but they are not operating under the law
if they do this; They have to accept the facts as they are laid down
in the law and not what we did politically so we have a right and a
responsibility to keep all avenues open, I am merely saying we can
approach them again as we have always explored all avenues and attempted
never to cut off any of these avenues until we had to,
Councilman Heath: We have been waitng for certain
reports, et cetera, for the past
seven years,
Mayor Snyder: I am saying take certain steps along
the route you people have advocated
but don't cut off the other one,
Councilman Heath: I feel if you are going to take one
avenue of thought you are going to
have to cut off the others to show your faith,
Mayor Snyder: You haven't convinced me enough yet
that this is the proper way to go,
enough to cut off the others,
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C, C, 12/7/64
'WATER' PROBLEM 'Continued
Page Fifteen
Councilman Heath: The previous Council made a certain
recommendation to go a certain route
and it was against my better judgement but I went along with it for
unity, I think we should take a vote at this time and make a decision
and let the majority rule and we all go together on that decision,
Mayor Snyder: This will be up for discussion on
agreement with San Gabriel Water, the 14th. We had a gentlemen's
They have kept their faith with
us in informing us of everything that has happened and I think we
should not just let them go on what they read in the newspapers, that
Mr, Krieger should inform Mr. Wood of our thinking at this time,
DEPARTMENT OF EMPLOYMENT LETTER
Mayor Snyder: I think you all have copies of this
letter stating they will give their
decision on December 16th at 10:30 A,M, in Sacramento. I think Mr,
Seeds from the Chamber is going and Mr, Ebiner and Mr, Tambe
tentatively are goingm I think a Council member should go, too,
Councilman Heath: I would like to see the Mayor, if it
is at all
and one
other Councilman, You can rest assured frompour 1previouusble. togexperience
that our competitive city is going to pack that place and I think it
behooves us to have at least two members of the policy making
group there to show our interest and desires,
Mayor Snyder:
Councilman Jett:
Mayor Snyder:
AUDIT - WEST COVINA DISPOSAL BOOKS
We should be prepared to authorize
that on Monday night,
I agree with Councilman Heath,
I can make it if it is necessary,
City Manager, Mr, Aiassa: I have a firm that has done two
audits in other cities and they
are willing to do it this week, They charge approximately $16,00 an
hour but we probably won't use more than six or eight hours, He is
willing to go to Mr, Thorson's headquarters and go through their books
with the auditor, Mr. Thorson has agreed and the appointment is set.
This will come up to be confirmed on the 14th. I just am advising you
of this at this time,
LEAGUE OF CALIFORNIA CITIES
COMMITTEE HEARINGS
City Manager, Mr, Aiassa:
Bill 1716, Assembly Bill 2334 is
Assembly Bill 1617 is government
going to have a hearing and this
(Read report re this matter,) This
is on Assembly Bill 2334 and Assembly
Public agencies open meetings and
agency news coverages, They are
will give you an opportunity for you
-15-
C, C, 12/7/64
Page Sixteen
LEAGUE OF CALIFORNIA CITIES (COMMITTEE HEARINGS) - Continued
to discuss the two proposed bills, They are now under review, One
involves Section A,B,2334, adds a new section to the Government Code
to provide, "All meetings of any committee or subcommittee of a
legislative body whether or not composed of a quorum shall be open
in public and all persons shall be permitted to attend any meeting
of such committee or subcommittee except during considerations of
matters as set forth in Section 54957,"
Mayor Snyder: I think we should authorize someone
to go,
Councilman Jett: I think we should definitely oppose
this.
Mayor Snyder: We should send a Councilman, Mr,
Jett, will you go?
Councilman Jett: I will go. Is there any way to
have a resolution passed to go along
with it?
City Manager, Mr, Aiassa: As long as you are authorized to
speak in behalf of the Council, I
think that is all that is necessary,
Mayor Snyder: The Council can be polled for
authorization tomorrow,
City Manager, Mr, Aiassa: (Read report re Assembly Bill 1.7.169
radio and television broadcasts,)
They are recommending you should have the same rights as the Assembly
and the Senate or any other legislative body. It is to be heard on
the same date, same place, same time. If they want to permit these
radio and television broadcasts in all meetings then you shouldn't
be exempt either,
Councilman Jett:
Mayor Snyder:
LEAGUE OF CALIFORNIA CITIES
COMMITTEE APPOINTMENT
City Manager, Mr, Aiassa:
0 COUNCIL REPORTS
DELIVERY OF COUNCIL MAIL
I think we should have this right,
I do, too,
You all have copies of this letter,
This is just for your information,
Councilman Jett: About a week ago my wife and I were
I out for the evening and after eleven
o clock a police officer drove up to the house, rang the bell, my
daughter was alone and she opened the door and they delivered my mail
from the Council, Why that time of night, I don't know, I asked for
a report on it and Mr. Windsor wrote me a note saying the mail was
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I
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C, C, 12/7/64
'DELIVERY OF COUNCIL MAIL 'Continued
Page Seventeen
picked up by the Police Department before five, There was no reason
or excuse for such a late delivery, I will be notified of. Mr, Sill's
findings on this matter,
Saturday night my daughter was at
the skating rink and I was to pick her up at twelve o'clock and I went
out to get in the car and the police car pulled up again and stopped
and the man got out and gave me my mail, This is ten minutes of
twelve, I contacted some of the others and they got their's in the
daytime, Why did I get my mail at midnight?
Mayor Snyder:
I think we should have provisions
to have a place to put this mail if
we are not at home,
City Manager, Mr, Aiassa: This happens only once in a while,
Normally we don't have the Police
Department delivering mail, I will make specific instructions that
the mail only go out during the daylight hours,
Mayor Snyder:
City Manager, Mr, Aiassa:
SISTER CITY FOUNDATION
I think we should find out what
happened here,
I will look into it,
Councilman Krieger: There was a meeting of the Sister
City Foundation By -Laws Revision
Committee Thursday evening and the Council delegated me to attend
that meeting and there was some discussion a few months back about
the functioning of the Sister City Foundation, As each of you know
you have made an appointment to the Sister City Foundation designated
as a Sister City Commissioner, That is pursuant to the By -Laws of
the Sister City Foundation which provides the Executive Committee
would be made up of 11 members, five of whom are Sister City
Commissioners appointed by each individual Councilman, one Commissioner
per Councilman,
There has been some difficulty
experienced by each of us in this system and as a result not only
Of our comments but their own feelings they had this By-laws revision
meeting and there were three distinct points brought up effecting
this Council,.. The first is the By-law Revision Committee is prepared
to recommend to the Board of Directors of the Foundation a revision
in the By-laws which will provide that the City Council shall have the
right to appoint not less than one nor more than five -- the City
Council, not the individual Councilmen, Secondly, that the designation
will be changed from "Commissioner" to "Delegate", Thirdly, that the
Sister City Foundation will prepare and submit to the Council quarterly
a financial report indicating their status and also a report as to
their activities so that we can gear our appropriations to this report
the same as we do with the Chamber of Commerce,
I would like to recommend to the
Council each and all of these changes so that the representation in
the future will be from the Council sitting as a Council to the Sister
City Foundation and that the confusion in designation be eliminated
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Ca C, 12/7/64
SISTER CITY FOUNDATION - Continued
Page Eighteen
and that we have periodic reports from the Sister City Foundation as
to their activities and their financial status,
Mayor Snyder:
We can bring that up on the 14th,
Councilman Heath: This Sister City program is a
people -to -people program and is
not responsible to the Council, does not work at their direction, is
not connected with the Council in any way except that should there be
visiting dignataries that the City Councilmen will greet these
officials and that it give its moral and financial support wherever
possible to make this program become effective. We can ask for these
reports and should have them but only to the extent for informational
purposes and I would like to reiterate that the basic idea of a
Sister City program is not to act at the disposition of the Council
nor take directions from them, In light of this I think this movement
of one to five delegates is a good idea and I also think these reports
should be made'to the Council purely for informational purposes -but
these delegates should only act as a messenger carrier but not to
carry instructions to our Sister City Foundation, Is this the
general concensus of the rest of the Council?
Councilman Nichols: I believe so,
Mayor Snyder: I would agree with you that the
Sister City program is a volunteer
organization and not set up to be at the disposition of the Council.
However, by its very nature they do tend to be a body that represents
in some respect the policy of the City and the image of the City,
I think in that respect we have a responsibility to have some say
in their proceedings and policy, Without any control at all
any volunteer organization could go off in any direction and give us
a terrible image and we need to participate in it within reason
because they do represent the image of the City,
Councilman Krieger: I th' k
in we are all saying the same
thing; we want to participate but
we don't want to control; we want to be informed and we don't
want to dictate and we are all talking about the mechanism to correct
that now. I will bring this up again on the 14th,
BRIDLE TRAILS
Councilman Heath: The Council agreed to let me do
work on the riding trails throughout
the City, I would like to report that the property on the west side
of Barranca and adjacent to the Wash which is known as the Hircon
property, there is a court action pending where the Ridge Riders have
slapped proposed easements all over the property and it is scheduled
to go to court, In the meantime the owner of the property has
purchased from the flood control a strip of land along the Wash
approximately 10 feet wide all the way from the pump station to
Barranca for $39700 to be made available to the riding groups and I
believe this will settle the court action that is pending and will
satisfy the riding groups and will satisfy Mr, Hirsh, There is still
further action we are trying to get whereby the Flood Control right-of-
way can be used for these riding trails in different areas,
C, C, 12/7/64 Page Nineteen
CO'UNChL REPORTS - Continued
HUNTINGTON BEACH FREEWAY
Mayor Snyder: I had a meeting with the Plaza
merchants, It ended by them not
coming out and officially endorsing our stand on the freeway but they
are going to set up a Traffic Committee and they did make a motion or
resolution to support us and work together with us on the freeway,
I think that is essentially their conclusions,
LETTERS TO THE CITY COUNCIL
Councilman Nichols: When letters come to the City
addressed to the City Council
rather than to the Mayor, letters to the City Council, who responds
to these letters?
City Manager, Mr, Aiassa: Normally copies are sent directly
to the Council and the Council
disposes of them, I usually ask the City Clerk to answer letters
that don't require Council action,
Councilman Nichols: What about letters that come into
the City addressed to the Council
that do not require a Council action? Is this automatically a
response of courtesy and acknowledgement of those letter?
City Manager, Mr, Aiassa: I go over these and if there is
a final disposition taken on them
we take care of them, We normally acknowledge that the letter has
been received and copies given to the Council,
Councilman Nichols: It would be my feeling that even
a letter that would say "I am
against it" and a name signed, if it is a citizen addressing the
Council of the City that there should be at least an acknowledgement
of the receipt of the letter,
Councilman Jett:
I think it should come from the
Mayor or the City Clerk,
Councilman Nichols: I would agree with that,
Mayor Snyder: I think Mr, Windsor in his role as
secretary to the Council can take
care of this. Most of those letters do hit the Council floor,
Councilman Nichols: I think every letter should be
acknowledged immediately after its
receipt and if there is later action to be taken we can take that
action,
JIM'S WATER WHEEL
Councilman Krieger: Can we expect a report from the
City Attorney before the 14th
regarding the legal status and our stand on Jim's Water Wheel, in
writing?
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C, C, 12/7/64
'JI'MBS WATER WHEEL Continued
Page Twenty
City Clerk, Mr, Flotten: I talked to Mr, Newell and he will
write a report for the Council,
He will get it to us before the next meeting, There are two things
involved here, One is the hearing before the A,B,C, and the other
is the hearing on the cabaret permit and a third is the revocation
of the license, The cabaret permit is coming up January 4th in court,
We have rescheduled our hearing on revocation of the license to
January 11, 1965,
STUDY SESSIONS
Mayor Snyder:
Councilman Krieger:
Mayor Snyder:
We have some nights open for study
meetings this month, We have one
set up for the 21st,
Let's make it an adjourned meeting,
All right,
There being no further business, Mayor Snyder adjourned the special
study session at.11:05 P,M, `
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