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06-01-1964 - Regular Meeting - MinutesMINUTES OF THE JOINT MEETING BETWEEN THE CITY COUNCIL AND PLANNING COMMISSION CITY OF WEST COVINA9 CALIFORNIA JUNE 19 1964 The joint meeting between the City Council and the Planning Commission was called to order by Mayor Snyder at 8:25 P,M, in the West Covina City Hallo ROLL CALL Present: Mayor Barnes9 Councilmen Krieger, Nichols, Heath Chairman Renwick9 Commissioners Gleckman, McCann, Fast, Travis Others Present: Mr, George Aiassa, City Manager Mr. Harold Joseph9 Planning Director Mr. John Q. Adams, Public Services Director Absent: Councilman Jett Mayor Snyder: The City Council invited the Planning Commission to meet the new Council to acquaint the Planning Commission with the new Council . and maybe discuss the policy of the Council with relationship to the Planning Commission. Chairman Renwick: I thought we might discuss the method of handling items that go through the Commission to the Council, Councilman Krieger: I had looked forward to this meeting as well as with the other commissions and boards to let our hari down a little bit so we understand what our problems are because I think we share problems in this community, I commended to the Planning Commission it has been my privilege to meet with them as the committee member from the Council since the new Council was seated. I am very much impressed by the way the Planning Commission has operated, I feel that there are certain problems we share with the Planning Commission as to our procedures, our mechanics and our methods, My attention was specifically called to this problem in Santa Monica when the Planning Commission was referred to as a "think factory", I don't think the way we are presently constituted we allow our Planning Commission to be a think factory". I think they are too burdened down with specifics, I think the same thing is true with the City Council, I would like to see some administrative changes to take some of these matters off the Planning Commission agenda and off the City Council agenda and to refer these matters to staff even for decisions on many items, Perhaps this may require some interpretation by our City Attorney as to what extent they make decisions but I am wondering whether or not we haven't created our own problems through recent history where each and every matter of any consequence or no consequence continually comes before the Planning Commission and the City Council, I am disturbed when I find the Planning Com- mission finally getting around to a major subject at 12:30 in the morning and the Council does the same thing, 'I,cibn't think the -1- C, Co 6/1/64 JOINT MEETING - Continued Page Two best can be expected of us when these procedures are followed, On the other hand, I think there are certain areas where the law does call out for the Planning Commission to perform certain duties that • have been aberrated. I would like to see the Planning Commission reinvested with those duties and responsibilities so the Council can operate within its true function and the Commission can do the same. I would like to see the Planning Commission and the Council work hand in hand on these problem areas and not use their resprective sessions in order to jab or stab at the other, I think this is a dissipation of energy and strength and good will and direction, Mayor Snyder- I think we will work much better together if we work as a team, When we do have differences we should talk them out, For a long time I have felt that more things could be taken care of by the staff, Councilman Heath- A lot depends on what you are talking about, There are certain duties you might delegate to the Commission or to the staff but there are some we should retain ourselves, Regardless of what is delegated to the Planning Commission, we are still responsible, the Council, and I think it behooves us to keep our .finger on enough of these things to know what is going on, We also must realize that we delegate these duties to the Planning Commission or to the staff, the Commission or the staff makes a poor decision$ then it is going to be us that will have to answer to it because we are the ones elected by the people and accountable to the people, However, I think before we start out on a venture like this I think it would be more fitting that the two new members of the Council get more experience under their belt, I can hardly justify in my mind having them make a decision of this type without more of a background, Mayor Snyder; We haven't gotten down to specifics on what can be delegated but there must be ways that larger cities do it that we haven't come to yet, We have moved from a small city to a large city and we still retain some of the small city methods. We should make a list of things other cities delegate that we don't and things we think we could delegate and we don't, These would have to be con- sidered item by item. What we delegate we can always take back if it doesn't work out, Councilman Heath - be only sensible to be I don't think these two their belts to realize accomplished if a wrong Councilman Krieger - I think rather than jockey this back and forth it would sure of our actions before we take them and gentlemen have sufficient experience under the problems that can be accumulated or decision is made, I think we also share the advantage of newness in that our experiences in each of these areas are new and perhaps we can bring some fresh experience or fresh comments or certain observa- tions to the floor which may be beneficial to clear the air, -2- C, Ca ' 6/1/64 Page Two JOINT MEETING - Continued best can be expected of us when these procedures are followed, On the other hand, I think there are certain areas where the law does call out for the Planning Commission to perform certain duties that • have been aberrated. I would like to see the Planning Commission reinvested with those duties and responsibilities so the Council can operate within its true function and the Commission can do the same. • I would like to see the Planning Commission and the Council work hand in hand on these problem areas and not use their resprective sessions in order to jab or stab at the other. I think this is a dissipation of energy and strength and good will and direction, Mayor Snyder: I think we will work much better together if we work as a team, When we do have differences we should talk them out, For a long time I have felt that more things could be taken -care of by the staff, Councilman Heath: A lot depends on what you are talking about, There are certain duties you might delegate to the Commission or to the staff but there are some we should retain ourselves, Regardless of what is delegated to the Planning Commission, we are still responsible, the Council, and I think it behooves us to keep our .finger on enough of these things to know what is going on, We also must realize that we delegate these duties to the Planning Commission or to the staff, the Commission or the staff makes a poor decision' then it is going to be us that will have to answer to it because we are the ones elected by the people and accountable to the people, However, I think before we start out on a venture like this I think it would be more fitting that the two new members of the Council get more experience under their belt. I can hardly justify in my mind having them make a decision of this type without more of a background, Mayor Snyder: We haven't gotten down to specifics on what can be delegated but there must be ways that larger cities do it that we haven't come to yet; We have moved from a small city to a large city and we still retain some of the small city methods. We should make a list of things other cities delegate that we don't and things we think we could delegate and we don't, These would have to be con- sidered item by item, What we delegate we can always take back if it doesn't work out, Councilman Heath: be only sensible to be I don't think these two their belts to realize accomplished if a wrong I think rather than jockey this back and forth it would sure of our actions before we take them and gentlemen have sufficient experience under the problems that can be accumulated or decision is made, Councilman Krieger: I think we also share the advantage of newness in that our experiences in each of these areas are new and perhaps we can bring some fresh experience or fresh comments or certain observa- tions to the floor which may be beneficial to clear the air, -2- C, C, ' 6/l/64 JOINT MEETING - Continued Page Three I was looking in our Municipal Code as to the setup of the Planning Commission, the duties and • responsibilities, It refers to the Government Code under which the Planning Commission is created and I looked at the Government Code to see what the Commission does and one of the sections I ran across says at least three months before the end of each fiscal year they shall submit to the City Council a list of proposed public works recommending for planning, initiation, or construction during the last fiscal year, Is that done in our City? I don't know if the Commission as presently constituted, as presently burdened can even attempt to formulate such a capital improvement project but the law says they shall, CJ Councilman Heath: When I was representative to the Planning Commission there was a list discussed concerning what was ahead of the Planning Commission, I asked that a copy of this list be forwarded to the Council and my request was misinterpreted because they thought I was asking this to go before the Council to have the Council arrange the priority which was not the statement whatsoever, However, I requested a list of these things which were before the Planning Commission and it was met with quite a bit of objection. I think what you say is true; this list should be presented not at the end of the year but at certain times throughout the year to keep us appraised of what is coming before the Planning Commission', The Council needs certain information at certain times, The Council should be able to tell the Planning Commission what we need first. In the battle that ensued, I was told in an indirect way that the Planning Commission will arrange their own priority, I think the Planning Commission should arrange a list and I think it should'be reviewed by the Council because the Council is the one who needs the information and they should have the right to ask for it in a certain priority, Mayor Snyder: There is no reason that we couldn't in a friendly fashion get together on these lits and determine the priority. We both understand the burdens of the other, Chairman Renwick: The Planning Commission has never been concerned with public works projects, This list referred to has nothing to do with public works, This is another list entirely, The Planning Commission projects are zoning cases, revision of the zoning codes, this sort of thing, City Manager, Mr, Aiassa: I think we should have a ruling from the City Attorne on Y this, This is a controversial law as far as interpretation is concerned, We would like as many people to look at these public works as possible, Councilman Krieger: It says "shall", Councilman Heath: I think Councilman Krieger has brought up a good point. I think everyone should have a copy of this, City Manager, Mr, Aiassa: -3- All the Council should have a copy of it, C, Ca 6/1/64 JOINT MEETING - Continued Page Four Councilman Heath: I think we should review it with the idea in mind of what • Mr, Krieger suggested. Commissioner Travis: I think a code of that type could very well apply to a city which has been built up, in essence, not one that is relatively new like our own and we have so many problems in rezoning, et cetera. I think this would be fine in many of our older cities, in our eastern cities where they don't have too much new development, but at the present time the newer cities I don't know who uses this particular code, Mayor Snyder: It certainly would be a responsibility of the Engineering or Public Works Department or the City Manager's Department and about all they would have to do is ask the Planning Commission to review it and make recommendations regarding it. It doesn't seem to me such a burdensome thing, .Commissioner McCann: The time aspect of the job is quite important and the ability to get rid of the minute details I think is something we have to look at almost continuously. This is very time consuming and does very little good as far as the overall project is concerned when we fool with too many small things, I think it is quite important that we review our processes and see what we are doing, where we • could save time on our regular meeting night, I think we can find time to do the very things we are talking about here as far as recommending capital improvements, et cetera, but I think it takes quite a bit of review to do it. I think it is imperative that we do it, Commissioner Travis: I think Councilman Krieger made a very important point when he talked about the length of our meetings. I think we all realize that after a period of time in an evening we lose our perspective, Sometimes it runs into the wee hours of the morning and as elected officials and volunteer Planning Commissioners, we all have other interests, our profess-ons and businesses where we spend eight or ten hours a day and we come in here for another four or five hours. Mayor Snyder: I could give you an example where the Council could delegate responsibility -- permits for carnivals,, fairs, what -have -you. We have a policy and the staff could abide by it. It seems to me that the Council shouldn't be bothered with this when the City Clerk could do it. This is just one example. Councilman Krieger: I think it might be well worth the time of the staff, particularly the City Manager and the City Attorney, to go through our respective agendas, matters that come before our respective bodies, and give us an opinion as far as if there are any alternatives to these matters going on our agenda, other avenues of resolution within our staff or administrative agency of our government that could pass on these things, —4— C,, Ca 6/1/64 JOINT MEETING - Continued Mayor Snyder - • Mr,, Chase in the County, they they just carte blanche accept go over every one of them,, I solve this is that a committee Commission meet with selected mendations where this could be that function better,, It will with recommendations,, 0 Councilman Krieger- Page Five In having had some experience in observing Mr. Bonelli and leave these matters on the agenda but the staff recommendation, They don°t would like to suggest that the way to of the Council and the Planning staff people and come up with recom- improved9 compare with other cities take two or three months to come up capacity as we are presently operating importance come up before us so late,, I don't think we are serving the people in our best when matters of serious Commissioner Fast- I think it must be true in city government as well as it is true in industry that a company or city government can run by the seat of its pants with chief honcho ruling on anything and every- thing that comes up only up to a certain point and when you get to a certain level, whether it is finance or economics or just the total weight of doing business, that there has to be some delegation and implimentation by this delegation or you will bog down and end up by being an also-ran,, I know we are certainly feeling this business -wise and I certainly think it is going to have to be appli- cable to a city,, Mayor Snyder - The mark of a true administrator is the ability to delegate,, Commissioner Gleckman- I think everything we dis- cussed so far is very good. I would like to add my suggestion that the City Council and the Planning Commission have some period'of time within their agenda to cover some of the staff reactions,, If we are going to delegate this authority just have it on the agenda under staff action for the past week and just the general outline of what has happened. Then if any particular Councilman or Commissioner feels that they would like to call this up or know more about it, bring it up at that time rather than discussing each item as it appears,, Mayor Snyder - and make recommendations. We could them against other cities which may them against the law. I don't think mendations until this has been done,, My suggestion was that a committee of each body review review procedures and compare be operating better and compare we can make any specific recom- Councilman Nichols- There are substantial methods of planning commissions, differences in the operational For example, in a city some thirty miles from here the ordinance states that the action of the planning commission shall be final unless appealed, period. This, as I understand it, is not our form of operation here. We receive items recommended for our approval,, There are differences and I would only add to this discussion so far that I concur that this is an area for an investigation on the part of the City Manager and staff and for subsequent recommendations for these bodies as to areas where we might -5- Ca Ca 6/l/64 JOINT MEETING ® Continued Page Six streamline the operations and delegate some authority. At that point we can consider where safeguards might be lost or where we might be • able to spare some things from our agenda,, Motion by Councilman Krieger, seconded by Commissioner Travis, that the Mayor appoint one member of the City Council and the Chairman appoint one member of the Planning Commission to meet with the City Manager and the City Attorney for the purpose of reviewing the present procedures followed by each of the bodies and to make recommendations to the City Council and to the Planning Commission with respect to these proceedings,, Mayor Snyder- This motion will have to be made again in the regular adjourned meeting,, Councilman Nichols- If this motion was entertained, seconded and passed, would it incorporate only the Planning Commission and the City Council or would it also include other appointivebodies that face similar problems? Would we want as a Council with each group to make another motion and.set up still another meeting with the City Attorney and the City Manager and with the staff and representatives from each body to streamline procedures? What I am suggesting is that perhaps it would be more suitable to have an initial exploration of this area by the staff and the City Attorney and then a presentation in general terms to advise us of their report,, . Commissioner McCann- I think the immediacy of the situation is between the Planning Commission and the City Council and I think we should proceed,, Action on Councilman Krieger°s motion- Motion carried unanimously,, Mayor Snyder- I have an item to bring up -- the policy of the City regarding zoning and what type of zoning and which way the City will go is determined in effect at the ballot box. There are still planning principles and economic principles against which you weigh this,, I think it is necessary that the City Council and the Planning Commission at least have a general idea of the kind of City we want to build,, In other words, are we going to build according to textbook or are we going to weigh this against what the people want and what economics dictate. I am wondering if there is any question in your minds regarding the General Plan or what the Preamble of the General Plan sets out as to the way the City will go. If we could get an idea of what is desired and what the people want we would be less likely to be reversing each other so often,, We have a Preamble to the General Plan which, in effect, stated our goals. Do you feel this should be revised? Should we draw up a set of goals so far as planning, a new set, more in line with the present-day thinking or -are you satisfied? Councilman Nichols- I would react as a new Council- man only for the edification of the Planning Commissioners from what I have been able to observe so far in studying the recommendations of the Planning Commission mom • n C. C, ' 6/l/64 JOINT MEETING - Continued Page Seven and in observing their work, and I am very very impressed personally with the philosophy that seems to be indicated therein, Mayor Snyder - Here is a new feature adopted by the Council a few months ago called the headquarter city concept, I am not sure we ever got the approval of the Commission on this or that if they are aware that this is a new policy, an officially adopted policy for the City. While we are still a city of homes, by our very location we are going to have to accept the fact that we can become the service and retail center of the valley, Chairman Renwick- As I understand your headquarter city concept, it is pretty much in agreement with the Preamble to the General Plan, Along the same lines, I think this also answers your previous question as to whether we are going to follow textbook planning or some other method of planning, I think that your textbook planning can be followed to a degree if it falls within the scope of both the Preamble to the General Plan and your headquarter city concept, Certain features are not applicable to the City of West Covina due to certain physical characteristics and this sort of thing and I think most of that has been pretty well left out of the description of the Preamble and the headquarter city concept, Mayor Snyder- If we adopt this general and basic set of goals for our City and agree on them between our two bodies, we are only dis- agreeing in details on certain items. It is all in how we judge how it fits with the General Plan, Commissioner Fast- In my mind I have been governed by the Preamble to the General Plan, I think that also essentially covers my idea of the headquarter city concept, I was aware of it, I don't know if I was officially notified of it but in any event I knew about this concept and I think all of us were aware of it. However, there is still somewhat of a situation where I am hopeful that the City of West Covina can have its cake and eat it, too. There prevails throughout the population a strong feeling for maintaining a bedroom city, Certainly public hearings have brought this out, Any sort of public gatherings where more than just the applicants are involved bring this out, On the other hand, I think it is the City Council's duty to lead the City to the point where we stay financially stable and can grow and become more than just another bedroom city, How this is to be achieved is a policy matter as far as I can see, It doesn't necessarily mean we try to increase our ratio of percentage of commercial zoning or our percentage of high density zoning, If our planning at the two major retail areas is consistent to the point that the Chamber of Commerce can do its work and our new business committees can do their work, I think this is going to be what is going to develop us into a headquarter city, not let's do whatever anyone wants because we want to be a headquarter city and we can't be if we are Rml. If the people who are going to develop this city into a headquarter city understand a policy and if it is borne out by the Planning Commission as well as the Council, the Planning Commission would help carry out that policy and you would have successfully fewer appeals and finally you would end up by having an administration that would be delegating and running more smoothly, Slim C. C. 6/l/64 Page Eight JOINT MEETING m Continued Mayor Snyder-, I have felt all along that many people have been afraid of .the headquarter city concept because they were afraid it would destroy • the residential area. In my own opinion, we have -plenty of commercial already plus high rise buildings designed. This can fit in very nicely without destroying the residential nature of the area at all. Councilman Heath-, I think Commissioner Past brought out a very good point and I think it is a very critical point and might be the critical point of this whole misunderstanding. If I understood him correctly he said this, that it is going to be the Council's duty to determine whether we are going to be a headquarter city or whether we are going to be all R®1. I don't see how you can be a headquarter city and all R-1. I think it is up to the Council to tell the Planning Commission what we are going to be, in what way we are going to be a headquarter city and how much R®3. C®1, et cetera, you are willing to give to be a headquarter city. You are not going to be ahead - quarter city by being all RG1. Mayor Snyder; My concept was not that we had to build apartments for everybody who wanted to live here. My concept was again we are the commercial and retail center of the valley and we can do this within our existing commercial zoning. My concept again was we don't have to build apartments here for people to live in because the other towns • are doing this. Commissioner Gleckman-, I have been progressing along the idea that this would be the headquarter city and I think all of the conversations I have been entered into within the City Council framework was the idea of being expressed that we are the center of the San Gabriel Valley. I think as far as the type of zoning we have in order to capture this type of concept, I think location is all the difference as between the Council and the Planning Commission and the public. I don't think it has been the amount or the quantity or anything else; I think it has been location. Stometime recently I feel with the new Council that a statement of policy would be forthcoming and at the same time I felt that since locations were a problem and again this is probably just my own concept, since location was the big problem and quite a bit of multiple zoning that has been granted in our City is un- developed, that maybe we ought to take another look at the property that is presently zoned other than Rml and say we want to become a headquarter city and what is the best for the majority and what is the best format for doing this. I think location enters into more than the type of zoning and I think right now the pattern has been set so I think it is just a matter of a statement of policy coming from the City Council. Mayor Snyder-, You can't pre -plan all of this. All you have to do is be ready for it when these people come to you. It is going to be up 41 to the Chamber of Commerce to go out and search for them and we have to create such a climate that we can fit them in. 0 C,, C,, 6/l/64 JOINT MEETING - Continued Page Nine Councilman Heath-, I think then it behooves us to tell the Planning Commission now at the present time if we feel there is enough Rm3 or multiple dwellings in the City after we get the report from D,,M,,J,,M. I don't agree wholly with Mr,, Gleckman because I don't think it has been location; I think it has been the fact as to whether or not there should be more multiple dwellings,, Mayor Snyder-, Nobody said there wouldn't be any more multiple. We did say and I think the people spoke very strongly in this election as well as indications we have had in public hearings, the people are alarmed at the rate we are granting multiple and they would rather see the trend the other way and they were right to say this. I think in principle that is all we are saying. We can't come out and make a statement that there can't be any more multiple and nobody has made that statement,, If we are going to have any more multiple it should be in line with the General Plan and in line with the general attitude of the people at this time,, Councilman Heath-, I think this vote of the people was very interesting and I think there was quite a turnout but I don't take that as a strict indication of what these people are thinking because I would dare say 800 of the people voted can't even tell you what the name of the City Manager is,, I doubt if they can tell you what the names of the Planning Commissioners are,, Mayor Snyder - At the last election they could tell. you,, Councilman Heath-, I don't think 80a of these people had all the facts of such was given in relating to multiple dwelling,, If they had all the facts on both sides and presented by an expert I think they would look at it differently,, Mayor Snyder-, Issues are fought in elections,, If the majority of the candi- dates felt pretty much the same about multiple, if there had been a true issue on the other way, I think other candidates on the other side of the issue would have shown -themselves but they didn't. And, that is a strong indication to me,, Councilman Nichols- Councilman Heath stated that he thought the Council should make a statement of policy or provide a statement of policy for the benefit of the Commission,, My reaction to that is I think this is almost impossible unless someone during a Council meeting prepares a resolution of a statement of policy and the Council votes on this resolution and then it will only mean as much as it means really subjectively to each Councilman because each issue as it comes is an issue unto itself. I think a Council voting record creates the trend of the Council's thinking,, I would be happy for the Planning' Commissioners, anyone, to state my own feelings because I stated them again and again during my campaign. I told the home owners group that I would not and could not promise that I would forevermore vote against any more multiple zoning in West Covina,, I stated that I would vote regularly and consistently against spot zoning or rezoning of single family residential areas into multiple or C. Co 6/l/64 Page Ten JOINT MEETING a. Continued. commercial areas when it would create an island of that multiple or commercial area, That is the primary basis for my own campaign and • I will try as consistently as I can during my service on this Council to hold that promise and that was the only real promise that I made, Chairman Renwick.- Actually, whether it is multiple or commercial, I think the goal is still. the same-. In our commercial centers we have defined centers at the present time- I: don't think that any of us want to tear these centers down, I think the whole goal, both the Preamble to the General Plan and the headquarter city concept- and everybody here's concept is that we need strong centers for a good tax. base, I don't think it is good planning to dilute these things by putting commercial. zoning throughout the City milking it away from the centers which attract people from outside of our City coming here. The multiple I think is the same way, There is so much multiple that can be supported by the City of West Covina, It doesnt' make any difference if it is built or unbuilt9 the potential is still there, The City can still. support so much, After we have zoned too much of this I think it is the same as though it were built and I think we have to consider it as such because if all of it were to be built at one time we would find ourselves with apartments that are empty, they can't rent them, can't 'pay the taxe.s; they go to the dogs and it hurts the area surrounding them I think we have to watch it from that standpoint I think we have to give serious consideration as to whether it is zoned or not zoned; I think built or unbuilt is not a reasonable assumption unless you are prepared to • remove the zoning form the unbu-..l.t portion of it, Councilman Nichols., I whole=hea.rtedly agree with that Mayor Snyder,, Either the Planning Commission could institute a resolution or the Council. reaffirming their belief in (1) the Preamble and (2) the General Plan and under that they could say they felt the headquarter city concept is embodied in the present Preamble to the General Plan and that this concept can be adopted without upsetting our residential area; and (3) that planning principles and goals are an accepted method of procedure in West Covina and has been proven historically and by time that people want'us to go by planning principles here, Lastly, I think in effect is is stated that the people have adopted an attitude that they prefer to remain mostly low density, Councilman Krieger.- The best resolution drafted is no better than the last vote taken on the specific issue before the Planning Commission and -the City Council.- I- think a policy is a matter of evolution predicated on the vote on specific matters before the Council;, I can't see any incompatability whatsoever between the residential character of West Covina and the goal of achieving and maintaining a headquarter city concept, I can't see any incompatability at all., It seems where the difference of opinion exist are not on the commercial level, they seem to exist on the multiple density, medium density level, Those are the questions that seem to be of great .importance in decisions between the City Council and the Planning Commission, _10- Co C, 6/l/64 Page Eleven JOINT MEETING m Continued Mayor Snyder-, Policy only means as much as what service you give to it . but it does give those who live in it the tools to use against those who vary from it, Councilman Krieger-, In November of 1962 the City Council of West Covina went on record as far as the General Plan was concerned,, I think our votes will indicate whether or not that policy is in effect,, I don't think the electorate is the only body made up of strong-willed, motivated people,, I think the people running for office are also and should be given that same benefit of doubt,, Anybody who would vulunteer to sit on any appointed board is a strong-willed type of person,, We are going to have disagreements, obviously, but they should be in the same direction,, Councilman Heath-, In light of this conversation we have just had, I would like a little further conversation on the side of the Planning Commission concerning their recent decision on Glendora Avenue,, I have never seen so many people worked up at the outcome at the Planning Commission level of the decision on Glendora. They can't understand it and I feel I can't, either. I feel at this time it might be very fitting for the Planning Commission to give us an informal explanation because we have this problem coming before us and I think we should benefit from their comments. I think it would be well worthwhile if we could hear from them on their reasons for . overruling the experts and some of their thoughts and justifications so we could be benefited by this explanation,, Chairman Renwick-, I think our reasons are in the Minutes,, The hearings were combined on the General Plan and the zoning. In other words, the lines were drawn so they were identical,, The Commission took each parcel of property,, First we received the D,M,J,,M,, report, listened to the people in the audience, what they had to recommend, then we adjourned that meeting and had the staff attempt to summarize what had been said, The staff did that and did a good job,, At that time we reheard from the public again and we closed the public hearing and the Commission deliberated on the parcels separately, analyzed each parcel, and then voted upon this with all their discussion incorporated in the Minutes for the benefit of the Council and then two motions were made, one to recommend the particular zoning for each parcel or group of zones for each parcel and at the same time we had a further motion to incorporate the same zoning in the General Plan, The comments were incorporated in the Minutes in detail. The minutes were taken by tape and by the secretary. I think it would be a good idea if each of the Councilmen read the Minutes in their entirety because all the comments are incorporated in those Minutes, Councilman Heath-, It is much easier to get a better understanding on an informal discussion. I have no grievance or praise for any particular parcel, I am concerned in this respect; that we had the General Plan prepared for us by Simon Eisner and Glendora Avenue was left off of it at the time,, I delayed voting for this General Plan because I wanted Glendora included in that plan and at that time or we never would have gotten it,, My feelings have been borne out very well because of the fact that three years later we are gradually getting C. C. ' 6/l/64 JOINT MEETING m Continued Page Twelve down to Glendora Avenue but we are not getting it in the general form but in the precise form, I asked before for just an informal explanation. I intend to read the Minutes, I feel that this Council deserves an • explanation on why the Planning Commission overruled the staff where in the past they have been screaming that the staff is what you should listen to, the Council doesn°t listen to the staff, and here they directly overrule the staff. I feel the Council is deserving of somewhat of an explanation, Mayor Snyder: Regarding the General Plan, it was adopted in full, However, outside of the adoption it was realized that there might have to be some changes, that there might have been some deficiencies in the zoning of Glendora Avenue, What was adopted was adopted and not left out, Councilman Heath: I would not vote for the Glendora plan because I said it was left out, I tried to hold it up to force the fact we get Glendora Avenue at that time when we needed it, Mayor Snyder- It was not left out, There was an agreement to consider it later, Councilman Krieger- I sat in on both of these public hearings held on Glendora Avenue, At the second hearing, the hearing was closed and the Planning Commission reviewed the proposals, As far as I'm concerned, there is an expert in the field from my standpoint as a City Councilman, and it is our Planning Commission, We are to make available to them whatever materials they can use for their deliberations and at that point I don't believe it is just a question of justification; it is a question of decision and they have the right and the duty and the obligation to reach decisions and make recommendations to the Council. If the Council in its wisdom wishes to decide otherwise then it is the province of the Council but I don't think it is the function of the Council to cause the Planning Commission to justify their decisions, I don't think it is part of their job, Councilman Heath: We have always had an under- standing that if the Planning Commission took a certain action that they explain their action for the benefit of the Council so we will know the reason for their vote. I,wanted to know what their general idea was, what they had in mind, a general statement on why they voted the way they did and I think this is asking nothing more than a general philosophy of what they had in mind when they took their vote, Mayor Snyder: Mr, Renwick has indicated that he thinks this is stated in the Minutes, Commissioner Fast: As an individual, I would like to get some impressions of the Glendora Avenue hearings we held, First of all, the turnout was, I thought, very responsive and was an indication of the type of thing that the Planning Commission would like to have all the time. I thought with a rare exception or so, that the testimony given by people in the audience were given in good faith and the people were -12- C, C, ' 6/1/64 Page Thirteen JOINT MEETING - Continued attempting to let the City know what they wanted. I believe that D,M,J,M, in the light of pure economics expressed what they thought • was the best from the standpoint of maximum absorption of the heavier zoning, I feel that the Planning Commission after listening to the public hearing results, hearing D,M,J,M,, hearing the staff endorse- ments in certain areas, and other recommendations in other areas, went through and rezoned Glendora Avenue in terms of some pretty detailed studying considerably different than what that General Plan shows up there now. Certainly the General Plan as it went through was not the ultimate answer for Glendora because it has been a problem, The Planning Commission has gone through at least seven hearings, two paid consultants and a multitude of staff reports and if one could glean from it one consistent black and white, this is right and this is wrong, he would have to be a fool as far as I am concerned, I think the Commission attempted as best it could to resolve South Glendora Avenue into some sort of a pattern that would be beneficial to the City, beneficial and not detrimental to those surrounding it and still be somewhat realistic with regard to developing a pattern which the people could count on`which would be there and remain. I feel the very fact that the public turned out would indicate that perhaps they would have a response from the Planning Commission that they wanted, I have never seen such a response from people after decisions were over, Individual Planning Commissioners expressed satisfaction with the final results as opposed to what Councilman Heath indicated as dissatisfaction. From my standpoint, I count the Glendora Avenue public hearings as something that will go down as a big step forward for West Covina, Councilman Heath: I can't understand why in the past the staff has been regarded as all -high and very effecient and very capable and they come up with a certain recommendation that was almost totally disregarded. We have an expert, an impartial person, who came up with a complete independent comment which we have completely disregarded, Then we turn over to a bunch of backyard planners who set up a delegation of so many people from so many areas to come down and talk about it, really organized. I just question what is being hidden. I don't know, Mayor Snyder: At no time did I hear any repudiation of the staff, They commended the staff. They merely pointed out they had other factors to weigh in addition to the staff report, I think there are only a very few direct disagreements with the staff in all. Overall, they agree with the staff, Councilman Krieger: They agreed with the staff in 21 out of 31, Mayor Snyder: These joint meetings should be more frequent in the future and as long as we realize our overall goal then we will not have any trouble, If.,we stick to our basic goals, I don't think we will have any trouble, -13- C, C, 6/1/64 JOINT MEETING - Continued Page Fourteen Councilman Krieger: Regarding the Gruen report which the Council sent back • to the Planning Commission for their comments, all the Council is familiar with the extent and complexity of that Gruen report, I have the feeling that we did not give sufficient direction to the Planning Commission as to what we are asking them to do. Perhaps it might be wise if we get this out on the table and not merely hand it to them and ask them to report back, Chairman Renwick: As an example, this Vincent Avenue Interchange. There has been so much activity going on between the Council, commercial centers, et cetera, that we don't know where to begin on it, Mayor Snyder: I think probably the Planning Commission can't do much about the Vincent Avenue Interchange, If they have any ideas we would like to hear them but the Gruen report covered the whole area and that has to be implimented soon. If you have any disagreements, you should note them, City Manager, Mr, Aiassa: The Victor Gruen report did not solely develop the interchange, Their job was to connect the business areas, This is one of the purposes that the Council wanted to refer back to the Planning Commission so that when you review these future projects you will be familiar with this cross type of traffic controls and patterns, Mayor Snyder: This is merely to acquaint you with it and if you have any gross changes or recommendations to make let us know but we would like to have ti back as soon as possible, Councilman Krieger: On the southerly edge of our City around Valley Boulevard the Planning Commission is interested whether or not the Council has an industrial utilization in mind as I remember it, Chairman Renwick: Not necessarily do you have it in mind but what would the reaction be to the suggestion? Mayor Snyder: I think it is a terrific suggestion myself to consider. I think it should be studied. I think this was the original purpose of this annexation, Councilman Heath: There is only one problem, You have to do something to induce manufacturing to come on the north side of Valley Boulevard when they can go on the south side and be in the City of Industry where they have no City tax and an organization or corporation which is devoted to serving industry, The City tax is rough on industry, Although I would like to see the manufacturing there, I don't see how you can move the people over, -14- C, CO 6/1/64 JOINT MEETING - Continued Page Fifteen Mayor Snyder: Minneapolis -Honeywell came here when they could have gone to Industry, The tax problem is ours; not the Planning Commission's. If they think it is good planning to put manufacturing there, I think they should tell us, There is certainly no harm in investigation, Chairman Renwick: We can assume that there is no major opposition at this time, is that right? Mayor Snyder: Yes, For myself, I would encourage it, Commissioner Fast: In regard to planning actions, does the Council want us to act only in an objective manner considering pure planning only and putting aside entirely things like tax structure, or delicate political situations, or whatever? These are things that certainly are going to govern certain considerations. Are we to put these things aside 100o and consider everything that the Planning Commission does is done only in the light of pure planning as we see it? Mayor Snyder: I think if we have enunciated what is our overall policy you can weigh pure planning procedures against what you see as our • overall policy which in effect embodies the political aspects, I wouldn't expect you to go strictly by the book on pure planning procedure. Realistically, there isn't any such thing as pure planning, You should lean more toward that than the Council does, Councilman Heath: into effect the economics of the entire.City they have to plan it tax base and so forth, I think objective, Mayor Snyder: Councilman Nichols: I don't see how they can go into planning without taking City. If they are going to plan the not only as to zoning but as to the this is definitely a part of their I agree with you but I said in effect that shouldn't be their main consideration. The only consideration I would hope the Planning Commission never follows is the political one. I think you have to follow the economics to a degree in your thinking. Many other factors enter into this except political, That is the pressure that the Council has the responsibility to deal with, Mayor Snyder: Thank you for the meeting, We will now adjourn this meeting at 9:35 P,M, -15®