Loading...
03-04-1963 - Regular Meeting - Minutese� MINUTES OF THE ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL CITY OF WEST COVINA, CALIFORNIA 4 MARCH 4, 1963 The adjourned regular meeting of the City Council was called to order by Mayor Barnes at 7:45 P.M. in the West Covina City Hall. Councilman Towner led the Pledge of Allegiance. The invocation was given by the Rev. Gunn. ROLL CALL Present: Mayor Barnes, Councilmen Jett, Towner, Heath, Snyder (from 7:50 P.M.) Others Present: Mr. George Aiassa, City Manager Mr. Robert Flotten, City Clerk Mrs. Fern Sayers Merry, City Treasurer Mr. Thomas Dosh, Public Services Director Mr. Harold Joseph, Planning Director (until 10:30 P.M..) Absent: Mr. Harry C. Williams, City Attorney •MAYOR'S REPORTS HAROLD JOHNSON DONATION Mayor Barnes: before the City Council this evening. Our Consulting Engineer, Harold Johnson, wants about five minutes (Councilman Snyder entered the chambers at 7:50 P.M.) Mr. Harold Johnson I have a prepared statement here. Civil Engineer That agreement made and entered into between the City of West Covina and Harold.Johnson provides for, among other things, a monthly retainer. As a result of a special meeting held on Friday, March 1st, 19639 I offered the City of West Covina for their acceptance a donation of $150.00 provided that the City Council designate said donation to be used to immediately provide a permanent facility to the children for a playground and recreational area of the City of West Covina. If you cannot accept this donation, then we will revise the offer to go to an organization to accomplish the same result that the City Council will designate the proper agency subject to the above conditions. Mayor Barnes: Thank you very much for this. Our attorney isn't here this evening to see whether or not we can accept this but we think it is very gracious of your organization to present this to us this evening. -1- C. C, 3/4/63 Page Two HAROLD JOHNSON`DONATION - Continued r1 LJ Councilman Heath: I am somewhat concerned, Mr. Johnson mentioned the fact that he is on a retainer by the City, I believe he has deserved this retainer and it would lead me to believe that he is returning this retainer to the City to be used in the park, I think he has done a good job. I think he deserves a retainer and if there was some reason why this retainer is being returned, I would like the Mayor to find out, Councilman Snyder: Somebody offers you a gift, it is not courteous to ask the reason why. I think we shouldn't assume any other motive than that this is something to do something.for the City of West Covina, Councilman .Heath: I think it would be beneficial for the City to find out if there is animosity, Mayor Barnes: If it is agreeable with the Council, I would like to ask:Mr. Johnson to write this in a letter and present this -to us and at that time we can take it up with the City Attorney, Oe uncilman Towner: Mr, Johnson has given very generously of his time in the past to the City, are aware of his interest in the City of West Covina, I think he should be commended for his past services and should be thanked for his donation. I think it is unfortunate that in recent months there has been apparently some challenge or question raised by Council members as to why we engage these qualified outside services instead of having it performed by the City staff and I would assume that this is why he is returning the fee in effect through the donation. I think it again emphasizes to us that here is the quality of man that we want connected with the City of West Covina, Personal interest has nothing to do with it; he wants to do a good job, Mayor Barnes: CITY MANAGER'S ORDINANCE Mayor Barnes: hearing from the 0 but I have granted participation people of West Covina. comments from the audience, brought,up .on either side to the record. I would ask this itself and on the items to be I think Mr. Johnson's generosity has been well known through the City of. West Covina for -the past 10 or 12 years, I have checked with our City Attorney and this is not necessarily a public and we will welcome any comments At this time I would like to say one thing before we begin any I ask this evening that there is no personalities be heard or I shall ask that it be stricken from evening that we comment only on the ordinance commented on. These items to be considered, I -2- C. C. 3/4/63 Page Three CITY MANAGER'S ORDINANCE - Continued 40 would like our City Clerk to read are the items that our City Attorney has judged that we shall comment on, (Mr. Flotten read from the City Manager's Ordinance the followings Section 2201, Paragraph D - Recruitment; Section 2202 - Vacancies; and Section 2207 - Removal of the City Manager,) Mayor Barnes: Mr, City Clerk, would you now read what was arrived at by.our City Attorney from the Minutes of the meeting of which we heard.the City Manager's Ordinance? (Mr, Flotten read the recommended changes as prepared by Mr, Williams, the City Attorney,) Mayor Barnes: We also have a copy of.a report from the League of Women Voters, a committee which was headed by Mrs, Cathy Ross, and they have submitted their comments.and evaluations. Also, we have a model o r dinance from the League of California Cities of which I would like to hear at a later time from Mr, Flotten, I would now like to hear comments Orom anyone,in the audience who would like to speak on this matter, Mr, Henry Hughes It seems to me that during the past 226 South Homerest Street six or seven years we have had West Covina much more and better progress in the City than we had ever had in the years previous to this time. I feel a very strong reason for this good progress has been that we have had an excellent City Manager's Ordinance that has enabled the City Manager to accomplish his duties in a very efficient and expeditious manner. Both of the changes that are proposed to this ordinance tonight have a tendency to weaken the office of the City Manager and I believe that this is an undesirable thing. It seems to me that if we retain the City Manager's Ordinance as it is there will be less of a tendency for disagreements between Councilmen, perhaps, to effect the efficiency of the City Manager operation and therefore I would like to strongly urge the Council that they do not change the City Manager's Ordinance but leave it just the way that it is, Mr, William Jennings This evening I presented some 645 Almirante Drive petitions bearing signatures opposing West Covina the change in the ordinance, This was presented to Mr. Flotten with a letter of transmittal, We simply want to point out the signatures represent 9very small cross section of people who are interested in retaining the 1ity Manager's Ordinance the way it is now. I feel with the four to one majority retained in the ordinance we will encourage a better quality, stronger type of City Manager to be retained in our City government, We don't always have -the benefit of a strongly unified Council to forestall the possibility that a divided Council will, in a moment of stress,.force the -3- % C. Co 3/4/63 Page Four CITY MANAGER'S ORDINANCE - Continued removal of a'good qualified City Manager,: I don't feel it is necessary that the v o to required to remove the City Manager be reduced to three -to -two because if there is a majority who cannot get along with or like the operation of the City Manager I feel that he in turn would want to get out of the City. In line with.encouraging good strong City administration to come in and be retained to our City I am in favor of retaining the four -to -one majority. I feel that the provisions for the method of hiring are sound and again encourage the best qualified persons to come into our City for employment, Mr, Verne Cox I am speaking only as a citizen at 2209 East Greenville Drive this point. I feel that the present West Covina ordinance should be retained in its context, Several of the reasons that I have looked into in this is that a reduction in the support of the City Manager's job indicates a lack of security in a position and I feel that it would.be not to the best interests of the City to offer a position where job security was lacking and without being able to offer that I don't believe the City is in a position to attract the top talent that is necessary to run our City, Secondly, I feel that the job of City Manager is contro- versial in itself. It is one that requires the backing of the City Council and represents the only buffer between the City Manager's job and possible private interests. A divided Council could possibly cause a private interest pressure on the City Manager's job whereby with a majority of four -to -one vote there is a greater degree of safety factor. I would also like to comment that in that the job is controversial in many instances and you don't want a yes-man in that position and when you have a three -to -two type of voting control there is always the problem of being in a position of having to play the politics in order to retain your job. I think there is a greater area of movement with a sounder policy in removal, Frankly, I think if the job is not being done properly that the dismissal would be a five -to -nothing vote and that a three -to -two in itself doesn't represent the ability to dismiss or represent the ability of the job. I think that if the job is not being done that it would be unanimous at this point. I think you weaken the position of the job by providing a three -to -two type of removal, Councilman Heath: all our examinations for the City City Manager, Mr, Aiassa: Councilman Heath: •City Manager, Mr, Aiassa: Is the California State Personnel Board the same board that drafts employees? —4— Yes; it is a non-profit organization, It forms these questions and exams and is corrected by them? Yes. We have a contract with them. This is one part of their job, C. C. 3/4/63 Page Five CITY MANAGER'S ORDINANCE - Continued r1 LJ Mr, Philip Wax As you know, I represent the merchants 1035 South Hillborn of the'West Covina Plaza and my West Covina assignment is to sit in on Council meetings plus meet.with the City staff in an effort to speed up progress toward better central flow and circulation. I.have found the staff very efficient in the performance of their duties. However, after several weeks of observation at Council meetings I have found that due to the constant controversy of our own Councilmen the efficiency is starting to come apart. We have arrived at four questions. (1) Motivation: Is the urgency to change at this time directed at the present City Manager or by an honest desire to improve the existing ordinance? (2) Who is behind the proposed change? It is rumored certain forces within our City desire this ordinance changed to further their own ambition for personal gain instead of serving their City's citizens better by improving this government. (3) Urgency. Why your urgency at this time when there are so many outstanding projects needing immediate attention? (4) What effect will the proposed change in ordinance and the underlying implications have on the City personnel? All of the merchants and businessmen in our center urge you not to make any changes at this time but to seriously onsider to making a more unifying attempt at seeing eye to eye so we can continue to grow. Mayor Barnes-: It is not an emergency. I didn't feel that it was.an emergency and I don't believe the rest of the Council did either. We.didn't want to put this off forever but we did want everyone to have the benefitof time that they needed. I think this has been granted. Mr. Philip Wax: I would like to comment for the record these questions that I asked were not presented by me alone but I petitioned with 83 signatures of our most prominent merchants of the area. I presented this to the City Clerk,, Rev. John Gunn I would like to speak to two points. 808 Gretta Avenue I agree.heartily with all that the West Covina League has represented in their document except.for the. -final point on the matter..of the majority or plurality vote business. I -would like to present it from. -.a particular point of view that may have not be.e.n presented before. Even though there is a great deal of money passed through West Covina it is still supposedly a non-profit organization. Anybody who has 0ver worked with or for a non-profit organization realizes ascertain amount f hazard, the hazard being that you many times have underpaid or people who are not paid working for the City in one way or the other. Therefore it is incumbent upon you to please everyone all the time. Over against this you want someone who is going to have the courage of conviction to say what he feels and believes in the office of a City Manager. Anybody who does -5- Y t Co Co 3/4/63 CITY MANAGER'S ORDINANCE ® Continued 0 Page Six anything at all is going to make enemies. He is going to cause friction, You cannot move in any direction without causing this, It appears from the comments that.have been heard thus far that forward progress has been noted by many in.the community and a good deal of this is attributed to the City Manager form of government and I suppose the present City Manger, When you work for a nonprofit organization there should be a built-in safeguard beyond that of normal decision making before,a Council, Three -to -two is most appropriate for many of the things that we deal with, but now you are moving into the area of personality. One who has a responsibility of dealing with five men and many subordinantes who received their orders from you through him, in this position it would seem to me that the extra 30 days, and I assume this is the most he could expect, afforded him by a four -to -one, rather than a three -to -two, is well worth leaving in the ordinance, If three men on the City Council came to the place where they were bound and determined that the City Manager was going to go all they would have to do is do what you are doing .now, I have heard on two occasions that what is being done is not being done to boot out the present City Manager, I find that hard to believe but taking it at face value then -what you could do is work out your three -to -two on the ordinance, 30 days pass minimum and then go into your vote after you have changed it to a three -to -two vote, *If this is not the case then. I assume that changing it now means the ouster or the proper pressure on our City Manager, Agreed personalities -should not be brought up in the ordinance but one thing I call to your attention and I think it is necessary that we be'aware of it. There were campaign promises by some Councilmen that the City Manager would no longer be in the City of West Covina, You can't alienate this from it, Personalities are in issue and I think we are only wise if we are honest enough to face it at that level, Councilman Snyder: I think his remarks are apropos only because he is unable to understand why the need, -for change and so in bringing in personalities he,.is attempting to find a motive. You have to have a reason for anything and that is what he wants to know, Mayor Barnes: I was asked by the City Manager today if we would please keep personalities out of it, I have granted the City Manager's wishes, Councilman Snyder: I am afraid you cannot keep personali- ties out. I don't intend to name names, I'll have to ask the City Attorney if you can strike it, Wayor Barnes: We will do this later. This evening with the wishes of the City Manager and myself, I think we will ask that we do not involve personalities, If there is no further testimony, I'll declare the hearing closed, -6- u C. Co 3/4/63 CITY MANAGER'S ORDINANCE - Continued Page Seven Mr,, Flotten, would you read that letter addressed to me and the Council? (Mr, Flotten read letter directed to Mayor Barnes.and the City Council re the City Manager's Ordinance from David Pittinger, Vernon R,, Moninger, James Walter Kay and John Q,, Adams,,) (Mr,, Flotten,also read a letter from Cal Sperline dated February 13, 1963 directed to Councilman Heath regarding this matter.) Mayor Barnes: I have known Cal Sperline a long time and I think he would speak the trutho He lives in Federalway,Washington. He served four years on the City Council of West Covina from about 1952 to 1956. He also served as a Chamber Manager in the town of Federalway, Washington. He is a very civic® minded man. City Clerk, Mr.,Flotten, On the petition we have a total number of signatures, 294, a petition protesting the proposed change in the Citv Manager's Ordinanceo (Read body of said petition,,) Councilman Towner: One of the items proposed at the outset was this change and I think the public is entitled to speak on it because this will be the next thing •to come,, They have gotten this far with what they have proposed and the program isn't over with. Mayor Barnes: This is not for Councilmen to give orders Councilman Towner: pretenses? Mayor Barnes: Councilman Towner-: Mayor Barnes: Councilman Towner. Mayor Barnes: this is in what.we are discussing,, The only suggested changes are the two that have been mentioned before,, directly to the department heads,, Just a minute,, Did you say this petition was obtained under false To the extent of that statement,, That statement isn't being discussed tonight. What false pretenses? This statement,, What is false about it? Mr,, Flotten, would you read that statement again?`:I don't think Councilman Towner: The entire statement'is that they are against change and they are -Councilman particular opposed to that change that has been proposed to this.Council by individual Councilmen being given the opportunity to go in and individually give instructions to the City Manager or members of the City staff,, This has been proposed; the public is'entitled to comment on it,, They are in particular opposed to that portion of it,, I will ask that once again that we have this petition.read to us because I think it should be,clearly stated in public and understood by this Council just exactly what the petition says,, -7- 0 C,, C. 3/4/63 Page Eight CITY MANAGER'S ORDINANCE ® Continued Mayor Barnes.- Before we read the petition, I wish you would go back to the Minutes and see where I voted against this very thing,, Councilman Towner: I understand that,, Councilman Heath: I feel that the signatures were gathered on this petition under a pretense of stating that the City Manager's Ordinance was to be changed to permit Councilmen to go directly to the City employees,, It says that on the top and on the basis of that you will get signatures of people that are protesting against that and that is not what we are discussing tonight,, If you have to have some kind of a gimmick effect to sign a petition, let's not use one that is not being discussed; use the one that is being discussed,, Councilman Snyder: In the first place, if this is not what we are talking about tonight., it is a purely honest mistake in this petition because it certainly has been talked about many times and it could be.very well thought by these people that this could come up tonight.,The people sitting in this audience realize it is still a threat and even though we are only talking these other things tonight it has been talked about meeting after meeting by this Council_,, They have a right to express their opinion on it whether it is being brougnt up tonight or not,, Mayor Barnes.- As long as I am the Mayor of West Covina this will not be -permitted,, City Clerk, Mr,,,Flotten: (Reread body of petition.- "The undersigned present this informal petition protesting the proposed change in the City Manager Ordinance,, We have seen this City move forward for the past eight years with a good stable City staff,, We see no need for a change at this time,, We are particularly opposed to the proposed change allowing individual Councilmen to bypass the City.Manager and issue orders to department heads,,") Councilman Towner., I think -it is perfectly clear on the face of that that it,takes into consideration any changes in the proposed ordinance and particularly proposed changes about that latter sentence. This petition was obtained by people of good standing,in this community, people who have no personal :int'erest or axe to grind. -.but are interested in good government,, They have brought this to us in good faith. To charge them with false pretenses is entirely out of line,, Councilman Heath. - I would like to have the Minutes read to clarify Mr,, Towner's thinking,, �ity Clerk, Mr, Flotten.- This is another petition.- "The undersigned wish to voice their opposition to the suggested change in the City Manager's Ordinance,, We do not believe there is any sound reason for altering the ordinance at this time,, Our City has made its spectacular growth during the years the ordinance has been in effect. We believe part of this progress is due to a harmonious City government,," This petition has 83 signatures and this is from the Merchants Association,, That is all the petitions I have,, C, C. 3/4/63 Page Nine CITY MANAGER'S ORDINANCE - Continued (Mr, Flotten read letter from Jay Michaels, League of California Cities representative regarding suggested changes in.the.City Manager's Ordinance.) Councilman Snyder: Was there any portion of that letter you just read stating the qualifi- cations of a City Manager and what different cities do to state these qualifications? Mayor Barnes: This is in the ordinance and this is what I would like to have read,, City Clerk, Mr, Flotten: (Read ordinance from the League of California Cities -- ordinance of the City of Coronado,) s Councilman Snyder: All you have read here is how you select them but how do they determine who to select from? What are the qualifications they pick from"? I don't feel this is a complete list because the complete question was not answered. What are the usual qualifications that are required? orayor Barnes: Councilman Snyder: I think that explained it very well, Do we have such qualifications set out in our ordinance? Councilman Heath: It was quite amusing last Thursday evening, As you know, I wasthe lucky one assigned to the Recreation and Park Commission meeting, It seems that we have a Mr, Gingrich who is the Park and Recreation Director and he needs an assistant to take the place of Mr. L audenslayer, So we have a man in our City who was wanting to take the exam to see it ne could qualify, California Personnel Board, the group that is listed here framed up an examination for this individual to see if he would qualify -- Councilman Towner: are going to set up the rules -® Councilman Heath: Mayor Barnes:. It seems to me we are not playing by the rules of the game, If you I am talking about -- I think you're deviating from the ordinance and we are getting into personalities. Councilman Heath: I am not dealing in personalities, I am dealing in agencies which are �mployed and which these people want us to employ, Through my testimony I can prove that these agencies are not capable of doing what we want them to do, -9- C, C, 3/4/63 Page Ten CITY MANAGER'S ORDINANCE - Continued 0 Councilman Heath: I have to bring out these names to bring out the point. I am not belittling or criticizing any individual. Mayor Barnes: Strike Mr, Gingrich's name from the record. Councilman Towner: My point of order is this,, When there is something said about striking it from the record, this does not mean that it is physically striken from. -.the record, The words stated are stated; they remain stated; you can't go back and take them out of your mouth and they stay in the record. Councilman Heath: That is all right with me. I am not degrading any personality at allo •Councilman Heath: The California Personnel Board, which we are being asked to use here is one of the agencies preparing an exam for one of the City employees so that he may take a test to qualify for the assistant to the head of the Recreation and Parks Department., The test was framed, sealed and sent to us and it was given to the individual. The individual took the test an(' shuddered. The person that he was going to work for looked at the test after it was complete and the man who is the head of the department who wanted an assistant stated that he had been the supervisor of this work for eight years --and if he took this exam he couldn't pass it. This shows the quality of an -exam that this California Personnel Board gives out, My point in speaking is this: If this test is -so far out of line that it is in the ridiculous class and it has been framed by this California Personnel Board, what type of a ,job are they going to do on selecting a City Manager? Councilman Snyder: I take -it we want to hire people who flunk tests and not those who pass, City Manager, Mr, Aiassa: This is a firm we have a fixed contract with and I don°t think the Council or Mr. Heath is abreast of the entire examination, These examinations are made fora large area and the whole State of California, In our particular department we have a unique department; we have a Parks and Recreational Director and sometimes these examinations don't fit perfectly, We have protested; very few, though. These examinations are set up for an over-all State of California examination, None are used in the same City twice, Of course there is only going to be a percentage of the total score • that a man will make, Councilman Heath: -10- Seventy was still passing on the exam, C. C. 3/4/63 Page Eleven CITY MANAGER'S.ORDINANCE - Continued Councilman Towner: Am I to understand, Mr. Heath, that because somebody who took this Recreation Examination in the City was dissatisfied with it that because of that information that you have you are of the opinion that the State Personnel Board is incompetent to act as a screening agency for the City Managers for this City? Councilman Heath: I would say that any board that is so far out as this one was where even the head of the department felt he couldn't pass the exam, that it was formulated forsomeone'in his staff, that if this board forms that kind of an exam and still maintains 70 as passing I think they are incompetent. Councilman Towner: I want to make it clear for the record. This is the sole basis for your determination that the State Personnel Board is incompetent to act as a screening agency in the selection of City Managers, is this information that you have passed on by somebody else? You have no other information to.base this on? Councilman Heath: I guess I could go back through 57 or 60 cases if you care to. *Mayor Barnes: whether we should agencies. Councilman Snyder: Mayor Barnes; I think the discussion here is whether to broaden this scope, use qualified men other than selected by these two Can we have the report from the League and then discuss this? Yes. City Clerk, Mr. Flotten: (Read report from the League of Women Voters in full.) Councilman Snyder: Do you want comment confined to each item at a time or -do you want them together? Is there any more evidence? Mayor Barnes: We have one gentleman who came in late and perhaps we should hear him. He is a former Chairman of the Planning Commission, Mr. Bob Jackson,, Mr,, R. L. Jackson: The ordinance was formulated by a Council who had considerable trouble in agreeing at the time but they agreed four to nothing that the .ordinance should be put in as it was. It was done to protect the Manager's job- To give him some security while they still can make that change. I do not see at this time it is necessary to make a change in the ordinance unless you wish to get rid of the present manager. This is certainly my belief. As Reverend Gunn said, he has a 30-day protection since this can be done at any time if it is necessary to change the ordinance and.remove him by a three -ton -two. -11- 0 C. Co 3/4/63 Page Twelve CITY MANAGER'S ORDINANCE - Continued The letters that were sent in by former Councilmen, who are all now members of the City, The other letter solicited from someplace in Washington, the man has been gone for several years and is probably not apprised of the situation. I think the League of Women Voters has done an excellent job. I do not agree with their change in three -to -two and I think they argue against themselves in their arguments in which they support four -to -one. I can see no need for change unless you wish to get rid of the City Manager. I have worked with this City Manager since he has been here as a member of the Planning Commission. I served for seven years. I am familiar with most of the department heads and I believe that all of them work well with the present City Manager and are quite satisfied with the present ordinance as it stands. I think if we weaken it. we will have a case very similar to what Baldwin Park just -went through. That was strictly politically motivated. Mr. Gene Kritchevsky I think as happens on many occasions 616 North Eileen Avenue the Council might be considered to West Covina be jumping the gun. The City Council as our elected officials are indeed the foundation of the municipal government and all else including the City Manager are to some extent superstructure built on top of the Council. I think from many observations over considerable period of times I think it would be well if the foundation of the City were put in a little better order prior to considering the superstructure. Councilman Heath: I would make a motion that any reference to personalities and insinuations be stricken from the comments. Councilman Jett: I would second that. Councilman Snyder: I would like to discuss the motion. Who is to rule.what is an insinuation and what is a: personality? I would agree with the intent of -the motion and I will avoid personalities except where I feel they have a basis:in the changing of this ordinance. I have no intent right now to name anybody but I feel in the broad aspect I may have to refer to personalities. I do not intend to insinuate against any personal Councilman.or name any personal Councilman. Secondly, even though you made such a motion I feel that I have a right to ask that anything I say be included in the Minutes. We do not have an attorney here but I would question the .legality of the motion. Action on Councilman Heath's motion: Motion passed on roll call as follows: Councilman Jett: -12® Aye. • Co Co 3/4/63 CITY MANAGER'S ORDINANCE - Continued Thirteen Councilman Towner: I think the intent of the motion is already covered in the West Covina Municipal Code,, There is no need for the motion; therefore, I vote "No",, Councilman Heath: Aye,, I am trying to put this motion through to see if we can get cooperation among this Council for a change,, Councilman Towner: I call your attention to Code Section 2118 regarding decorum which I think .would do well for all of us to read,, Councilman Snyder: I will vote "No" because I feel it is covered under Section 2118,, Mayor Barnes: Aye,, I don't want any.personalities brought up this evening and I would also refer to the code,, I think it is covered very well in the code,, Councilman Jett: I believe Councilman Snyder macb the remark that all comments should be verbatim in the Minutes,, *Mayor Barnes: As near as we can I would like to have all comments verbatim,, Councilman Snyder: I would start out by making a comment about Mr,, Sperline's letter,, I am sure he was a very capable and competent Councilman but there is one thing in his letter,that I feel tends to impune the credibility of the whole letter and that is in effect the statement that he recommended or wished we could go back to the commission form of government,, In the first place-9 our own legal counsel for the League of California Cities in effect says that probably the commission form of government is illegal,, I know that the commission form of government is not under consideration here tonight but I merely bring this out to cast doubt upon.the credibility of the whole letter,, Also, I happen to come from the city where the commission form of government was pioneered, called the Des Moine Plan,, They.have dropped it; many cities that used it have dropped it and there are.very few cities, in fact I'm not sure that there are any, in California that use the commission form of government,, Now, in regards to the question before us, I have some general comments to make regarding the change in the ordinance and then I have some specific comments to make,, First, I think what is the purpose *of the City Manager's Ordinance; why is it set up and what did the framers of this ordinance intend for it to do or the framers of any city manager's ordinance intend for it to do? What, in other words, are the goals and what is its purpose? I think some of the most important points or most important goals that the City Manager's Ordinance should serve and that is -13- Co Co 3/4/63 Page Fourteen CITY MANAGER'S ORDINANCE - Continued LJ this'. It should, number one, make the office of the City Manager as free as possible from politics and from political pressure, This is pretty difficult because the City Manager is caught between five politicians and the people and his staff. I think he already has a great burden just by the nature of his job and the ordinance should remove him as much from political pressure as possible and should be designed to protect him from political pressure because by so doing you are serving the interest of the people, The ordinance should also increase the efficiency and in the economies be designed to help the City Manager, of the Council and the City, It should also make the City Manager accountable to the people as well as to the Council. It -should remove responsibility for administration in detail from the Council's shoulders and leave the Council free to set policy, I would also like to.point out that any one Councilman has very little,power by himself. This is probably one of the least powerful jobs singly that there is, I think the most important thing to realize here is that this Council acts as a whole, whether it be three -to -two, four -to -one or five -to -nothing, Each individual Councilman has very little power and that is exactly the way it should be, The only power he has isthe power to persuade, I think it has been -well shown that wthe City Manager form of government is probably the best form of government, unicipal government that has been found in this country, I am not saying that it is perfect, but it.is good enough that several hundred of California cities have adopted it and have seen fit to keep it. Evidence has been submitted here tonight by many people that West Covina's ordinance has worked well. Now, why should there be any consideration of a change? It seems to me that in any of our ordinances we do not consider changing them as long as they are working unless.there is some underlying emergency, Is the reason for a change because it will make for better City government? The answer is "No, it will not", Secondly, who wants the change? No one that I can find except some members of the Council, Is there some underlying emergency that some of the rest of our Councilmen have not heard.about that would initiate this change of the ordinance? I can't for the life of me understand the reason if you are basing your reason on improving the City government, what is your reason for change? Is the reason because the present City Manager has not served the Council as a whole or done his job well? Is it to weaken the City Manager's ordinance so we can get at him? Is the reason because the present City Manager has done his job too well because he has dared to enforce the ordinances, because he has dared to step on -the toes of certain developers and self-serving people within the City so they are using their influence where possible to change the ordinance? On a technical basis, I do not really see whether it makes too much difference whether you have a three -to- o voee or a four -to -one vote, I feel that the issue here because of the Wwasons I have stated previously, the issue here is the implications behind this change, ®14- C. C. 3/4/63 CITY MANAGER'S ORDINANCE - Continued Page Fifteen Now, to go into the individual sections of the ordinance that we are talking about changing, the first one, the method of hiring a City Manager, I think that the use of these agencies was set-up for a good reason. One, as I stated previously, three Councilmen can sit.down over dinner as in the letter and hire anybody to be a City Manager just because he happened to be one of the Councilmen's campaign manager or could be all three of them campaign manager. I think that if there is going to be any change in this section of the ordinance the change should be to set up qualifications. If you are going -to remove an agency to hire, an agency that is capable of setting up qualifications and an agency.who has had the experience in selecting qualifications, if you are going to change any part of this section of the ordinance it should be to set up qualifications within our ordinance to prevent such thing as this, three City Councilmen hiring a friend. That is the only way I would vote for that change in the ordinance. I think those qualifications should be well spelled out if that change was made. Secondly, the fault in changing this to not use the services of an agency, as one member has pointed out, sometimes we would have three new Councilmen who have had little personnel experience, who,know very little about hiring people and I think that this put in here a-- that this was put in here not so much to protect the profession of the City Manager as to protect the people to make sure they got a non -political, a good administrator and one trained in the business of being a city manager. As to the second part that is under discussion for,change, I still feel and my arguments have been given before and need not.be gone into again, that no need has been shown for a change. There is.no urgent need for a change. The only reason can be that we can possibly be wanting to change now are for those reasons I enumerated earlier and I. for one, do not know what they are. If there is going to be any change in this section, I would suggest that the change be made in the first section to make it four -to -one to hire and again I would think this would tend to strengthen the ordinance; it would tend to strengthen the City government and I think it would still be responsive .to the will of the people. I have nothing more to say. I feel that I have said -most of the things in our earlier arguments and I won't repeat them.' Councilman Towner: I would have this comment,. We have provided the public an opportunity to appear and be heard on the changes proposed by Mro Jett and Mr. Heath in the ordinance and the entire appearance has been contrary to change. There has been no one stand up in public and state that he did not oppose the change or state any reasons for not opposing the change except . for the question regarding the three -two or four -one vote, there is nothing presented anywhere in the record that indicates any change is desirous or needed and therefore I would say that the burden is on the proponents of change to come forward now and tell us what is on their mind and why they are urging that this change be made or these changes be made at this time. So I would think that the proper order of business would be that in view of m15� • C. C,, 3/4/63 CITY MANAGER'SORDINANCE m Continued all the evidence here that the burden as now and always has proponents of change to come up with some suitable reasons that they do this at this time of they care to do so, Page Sixteen been on the and I would ask Mayor Barnes: We are not hearing a case at this time but only comments,, I would welcome any comments from any other Councilman at this time,, Councilman Heath: My comments are very few. I think I have said all I wanted to say in the past meetings, made my stand fairly clear, I believe, on many points, many times,, I only have about three points I would like to state,, This is not an emergency, no, This revision of this ordinance has been requested by at least one or two Councilmen for as long as I have been on the Council and from what I remember and what I hear directly from other Councilmen, it goes back long before this,, Just where this decision for change started, I don't think.we.can say it started with Mr,, Jett and myself although some people would like to believe that is the case,, Some of the reasons.for wanting this ordinance to be left the way it is have a suspicious natured When I hear people time after time quoting a suspicion or a distrust or forming some ghosts or making up possible boogiemen, I always look at that person and wonder if -this is the type person they are because this is the way they think,, Now we are discussing here tonight the City Manager's Ordinance as to theory and without personality, This was your request in the beginning, Mr,, Mayor,, I wish it had been carried that way and people who are continually suspicious, I would start to be suspicious of them. As far as the two points in reference is concerned, I think that as far as the body which chooses the candidates is concerned, I think it should be made permissible to use agencies but.not a requirement. This gives the Council a little,. -latitude and if you want to be suspicious of the Council that they are going to do something crooked and they are going to pull some shenanigans, they shouldn't have been elected in the first place and in the second place you should give people credit for being a little bit honest,, I would like it to be permissive for other boards to be used but not required,, I think if the League ®® I think the League of Women Voters has done a very good job in enumerating why we should have a-three-tomtwo. I think I can also say I don't know of any other city that has a four -to -one and if it was such an outstanding asset I think it would be more than us that had it. I have tried to prove that this is not an over -night idea,, As far as the first part of the change is concerned, hat we are being a little bit more libral and trust the people that are elected will be permitted to use a little bit of discretion and the third point is why do we want to do something which evidently no other city wants and has not adopted? Why should we have something along this line? I think the reasons the League of Women Voters give here for the three -to -two vote are logical,, Co Co 3/4/63 Page Seventeen CITY MANAGER'S ORDINANCE - Continued Councilman Jett- I think I have made enough comments in the past, Mr. Mayor &ayor Barnes; To begin with, I think that some of the people think, and perhaps some of the Council think, that this has been postponed and for a very good rea- son. I think it is a very good policy for the people of the City to be heard not only from the floor but through organizations and committees and what have you. As far as commenting on the two changes being considered here this evening, on the first one I would not say change the two items considered but perhaps, and I think Mr. Williams has summed this up very adequately, to add to that, a qualified City Mana- ger or managers with qualificiationso I think you could probably have a little more latitude and •,gain the same purpose. The League of Women Voters brought out the following argument in support of requiring a personnel agency; Item 5, "One out of five cities do have some kind of an agency even though not required by lawn" One out of five. Then I always wonder what the other four cities do and how they hire their personnelo I think that Mr. Jay Michaels of the League of California Cities sums this up in his report to us very well in that in their recommendations, they recommend the two agencies but they also recommend properly qualified city managers and I think this is only just as it should be. In regards to the three -to -two vote, the third question, the League of Women Voters brought out argu- ments in support. On commenting on the three -to -two vote, I have been on the Council quite a while and I can.see very little need for a four - to -one vote when it only takes 30 days to change any ordinance in our City of West Covina. So, say we need these 30 days? What do we need the 30 days for? I always question a thing like this. If there is a need for 30 days, what is the need? If there is a decision to be made by the official body of your City, let us do it or let somebody elect somebody else because if we are going to take the responsibility of run- ning your City, please all you people in the City of West Covina, I wish you would trust us to do the best ,job we can, I think there is only a need for a three -to -two vote even though sometimes we don't agree and people try to bring it back up because of the three -to -two vote, but I think even the City Manager or anyone on the Council, if they are not responsive to a three -to -two vote, they are wrong, Once this is passed, they should react as stated, I think the League of Women Voters should be commended for their summary. I also feel a great deal of praise for the League of California Cities and the gentlemen who commented in their letters and you ladies and gentlemen who have commented here this evening. I think that this should give us a very good indication for the reasons to vote here this evening. -17- • Co Co 3/4/63 CITY MANAGER'S ORDI14ANCE ® Continued Page Eighteen I see no disturbing effects in changing the City Manger's Ordinance, but when it was brought up, I c a 1 1 e d o u r City Attorney and he said that you do not have to have a public hearing but I felt it was necessary that the general public be heard and this is why I asked for your comments this evening,, I believe it should always be this way I hope the City doesn't get narrow-minded or small- minded and won't hear from anyone,, now or in the future,, Mr,, Philip Wax° In the argument for the recommenda- tion on Line 4, ",, ,, ,, If the Council is split into two factions with one member possessing a swing vote,, that one Councilman has too great a power over the Manager's job,," This is the thing that bothers me on the three -to -two vote from the past performances I have seen on the past voting,, Mayor Barnes., Councilman Snyder., disturbing in changing the disturbing in the way it is imade an additional comment,, Are you worried about me? I'll try to do the best and honest job for the City,, I would like to comment on one statement,, You said you see nothing City Manager's Ordinance,, Do you see anything now? Before you answer that,, I would like to I still feel that the issue here tonight is not the change in the ordinance,, these are only technical things,, I feel that the issue here tonight is the reason for the change and I do not feel that any cause has been shown to take up two hours of Council time,, In fact,, it has been many, many hours of Council time changing this ordinance when there are many more important things that we should be getting done. I feel that the issue is not the technical points of change; it is the implications or the reasons behind. these changes and I still think it is beholden upon those people who want to change to come up with proof or reason,, Now, I should state more definitely I feel what the implications are,, In the first place, I feel that this change is a definite step backwards. I think, secondly, the implication is that this change,, if granted,, is a criticism and a distrust and an inability to follow the precepts of good government,, Three, I think it is a criticism and a distrust of our, present City Manager and of the entire City staff,, That is the implications I draw from the reasons for change,, not knowing the underlying reasons for wanting this change,, Mayor Barnes., I believe you asked me a question,, Councilman Snyder., "You said that you saw nothing dis- turbing in the change. Do you sew anything distrrbing in the way it is now? Mayor Barnes., to study the City Manager's Ordinance,, As far as being disturbing,, this was brought up by Council members As far, as being disturbing,, I did Co Co 3/4/63 Page Nineteen CITY MANAGER'S ORDINANCE - Continued •not see any reason for it being disturbing,, One reason is that all other ordinances of our City are voted on by a majority vote,, The other reason I have is that practically all other cities do the same thing,,- Are we going to say that we are right and the world is wrong? I don't believe in this,, I think that people are too intelligent for this. I have always believed that this should be changed,, I didn't see where it should be adopted in the first place,, Councilman Snyder: Then in regards to Mr,, Williams' statement, you said that you would xcept his variance in the broad view if it said qualified city manager? Mayor Barnes:. Councilman Snyder: Right,, Would you be willing to write into the ordinance those qualifications? Mayor Barnes: I say "or a qualified city manager"; that is all,, City managers have certain qualifications otherwise they wouldn't be city managers,, Councilman Snyder: • Councilman Heath: that we- need,, Let's find out what discussed this back and forth and say over and over and over again,, go,, Councilman Jett: Councilman Towner: Mayor Barnes: That is not true,, Under this anybody can become -a city manager,, I think we have hassled this long enough,, I think we have the evidence is going on there. I think we have everybody has had a chance to have their Let's find out which way we are going to I move we waive further reading of the ordinance,, Second,, Before we get on the railroads let me make some comments,, This is speaking on the motion,, Councilman Towner: We have operated for seven and a half years under this City Manager Ordinance with stability and progress. It is only recently that there has been any push to, change the ordinance. The push has been made and the claim was made that there was public support for change, So we allowed the public the opportunity to come and be heard,, The public has come in and they have been heard and they are against the change,, They want this stability in our City government,, This ordinance was enacted in October of 1955 and one of the votes in favor of the ordinance was Mr,, Sperline,, He is no longer a 0 resident of this City on the solicitation of one member of this Council he has written a letter suggesting that we go back to the old commission form of government,, This is all we have gotten in the way of support,, Former Councilmen have indicated that they support the ordinance in its present form,, We have petitions from the citizens that they support the ordinance in its -19- i 1;* Co Co 3/4/63 CITY MANAGER'SORDINANCE - Continued • present form, We have in addition to of their convictions to come here and they want this.stability in government its present form, Page Twenty that speakers who have the courage stand up publicly and be heard that retained; they like the ordinance in It seems to me that in spite of all this evidence and in spite of the public reaction, if you go ahead and initiate change.that you are doing something contrary to.the will of the public, contrary to the good of the City, contrary to principles of good government and I think you are making a mistake, Now it is true that under the city manager form of government it is up to the Council to control and direct the City Manager, and we exercise our responsibility as elected Councilmen when we do.this, He is required to carry out our policy and enforce the ordinances that we make. This is what we ask of him, We should provide in return that this position be a position which a man of high caliber will be willing to accept and remain in, There he should be provided with some stability in his position. He should be provided with the confidence of his Council, The only change that has any support anywhere outside of this Council is the majority opinion of a few members of the League-.of:.Woman Voters and I respect their opinion but I -think it is more important to follow the expressed wishes of the other people in the City that we provide stability by delay, which is another 30 days, I think West Covina is.a City of a character of its own, I think we are unique in this aspect that we in this City stand for quality, quality of our City government and quality of our development, This is a thing we hope to retain. I think we can afford to be different than other cities and we can afford to be different,.in order to retain our quality, our essence in character as a City that separates us from other cities, One of the things that provides a sound platformforprogress, true qualitative progress, is stability of City government,. I therefore feel that the four -to -one vote is essential, With respect to the other proposed changes, it seems to me it would be possible if the Council so desired to find other personnel agencies that could do this initial screening or selective process, This part I have no objection to but I do have objection to taking down the bars and permitting a three-man majority of the Council to select anyone for city manager without true regard for qualifications particularly as demonstrated on a competetive examination. Once again, West Covina, I think, is a City that wants to be a City known as one of quality in its.government. We want quality -in a city manager and the best way to attain -it, as I see it, is to provide that we select our city managers on a competetive basis and not select them just over a dinner table because a few people on the Council happen to be in control and feel that this man will be favorable to them, On this basis, I think that there is no real need for change; it is demonstrated both by.the public, by past experience and by the character of the City of West Covina, I think any proposed changes should be negated tonight by the Council, -20- Co C. 3/4/63 CITY MANAGER'S ORDINANCE - Continued Page Twenty -One Mayor Barnes: I think Councilman Towner made one statement in regards to the commissioners being put back into City government, I don't -believe this is being discussed.tonight even though a former Councilman did suggest it,, I think that it isn't our concern here this evening. Councilman Heath: City Clerk, Mr,, Fl.otten: Councilman Heaths May I have the heading of that ordinance read? "ORDINANCE OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF WEST, COVINA AMENDING CERTAIN PROVISIONS OF THE WEST COVINA MUNICIPAL CODE RELATED TO THE RECRUITMENT -AND REMOVAL OF THE CITY MANAGER" Move we waive further reading of the body of the ordinance. Mayor Barnes: We had a motion and a second and I think you would have to rescind your motion and your second motion before this. Councilman Heaths • Councilman Jett: I will rescind the first motion. I will withdraw my second. Motion by Councilman Heath, seconded by Councilman Jett, and carried, to waive further reading of the body of said ordinance. (Councilmen Towner and Snyder voted_!'No" . ) Councilman Towner: I want it clearly understood that you are voting on both sections of the ordinance,, I would prefer and I think it would be more appropriate to take them up one at a time. Mayor Barnes: Would you gentlemen be willing to rescind your motion and let Mr,, Flotten read those separately and a motion on each item separately because I think we have,two parts here to vote on. Councilman Heath: Councilman Jett: I'll rescind it. Can this be done when you have an ordinance ®® Mayor Barnes: I think we should read the ordinance in total. If we read the ordinance as changes made and then each one read separately could we vote on each item • separately? Councilman Heath: I don't think you can. City Manager, Mr. Aiassa: I think if you are going to delete or take any section out, I,think this should be ruled by the City Attorney because suppose you have not a clear majority on one phase of it but I think you should at least review the -21- C. C. 3/4/63 Page Twenty -Two CITY MANAGER'S ORDINANCE - Continued • proposed amendments by sections so you know what you are voting on,, If the Council agrees on both then you can introduce the ordinance as prepared by the City Attorney. If they don't, then it should be amended by the City Attorney as directed by the City Council. Mayor Barnes* City Manager, Mr. Aiassa: Mayor Barnes: Can we add to or substitute any portion thereof? Yes; I believe you can. Mr. Flotten, would you read the suggested changes? (So read by Mr. Flotteno) I think Mr. Williams' intent was very good but I would like to see the two organizations "or" following the statement. I think this gives us a little latitude. I think these two organizations should be available and,I would like to see it written in. Councilman Heath: I would agree. Councilman Snyder: Move that there be an amendment to this amendment that -the word "qualified city manager" be added before city manager candidates. In Section 2202.in the sentence where the Council shall arrange.for-the recruitment of.a city manager., that the word "qualified" be added before "city manager" and in addition, an amendment to the amendment that recruitment may also include the use of the California State Personnel Board or the Los Angeles County Civil Service Commission or other organizations so selected by the Council and then I would make a third amendment that the qualifications of the city manager shall be spelled out in the ordinance under Section B. Mayor Barnes: I go along with the first part but I don't think you can do that. Every man can't be the same. Councilman Snyder: When you say "qualified city manager" who is to determine the qualifica- tions? I feel if you are going to change this then to protect the people and the City that you have to spell out these qualifications. You can say it has to be a man who has had five years of experience; and a man who has been trained in city manager form of government. Mayor Barnes: Can we have that first part of your motion as read and vote on it and then make an additional amendment and vote on it? Councilman Snyder: • Councilman Towner: have a further amendment to wording would be as to the up separately. No; my motion includes all of that. It seems to me in effect what you are suggesting., Dr. Snyder, is that we the ordinance but you are not yet sure what the qualifications and it might be well to take that -22- Co Co 3/4/63 CITY MANAGER'S ORDINANCE - Continued Councilman Snyder: Councilman Towner: Page Twenty -Three All right; I'll drop that portion of my motion, I think it's a good suggestion but I think we should wait until it is solidified. In your motion, it is permissive to use the services of these two organizations but not mandatory? Councilman Snyder: I should explain my motive, It is apparent that this change is going to pass so I am merely attempting to make it as strong as possible, Councilman Towner: Councilman Jett: I think I understand the -- "Qualified" doesn't mean anything there, Councilman Towner: Councilman Jett has brought out the point that "qualified" does not mean anything and I was going to suggest that we make it mean something by stating in.here.that the qualifications of candidates are those as stated in Section blank of the ordinance and we will insert that section later when we determine those qualifications, Councilman Snyder: I would add that to my motion, Councilman Heath: Who is going to determine these qualifications? Councilman Towner: We are, by ordinance, We will state the minimum qualifications in this ordinance, Councilman Snyder: It should be under Section 2201 B9 Minimum Qualifications, Councilman Towner: I think we can defer that until we have an opportunity to determine qualifications, We can refer to it here in order to make the meaning of the word "qualified" mean something, Councilman Snyder: I will add that to my motion, that the qualifications shall be determined as stated in Section 2201 B of the City Manager's Ordinance and I meant earlier that I will make a motion later on to direct the City Attorney to come up with recommendations for a -- eMayor Barnes: —23— I think that should be your second motion, Co C,, 3/4/63 Page Twenty -Four CITY MANAGER'S ORDINANCE - Continued . Councilman Towner: I think in order to summarize and before I sign so that we understand each other, the motion adds the word "qualified" before recruitment of city manager candidates so it reads "recruitment of qualified city manager candidates" and adds that the recruitment may be through such personnel agencies as the State Personnel Board and the Los Angeles County Civil Service Commission and adds a third, "or other qualified agencies" and the third change proposed was that the qualifications of the city manager shall be those stated in Section 2201 B of the Municipal Code. Is this the three changes that you propose? Councilman Snyder: Councilman Towner: Yes,, I'll second that,, Councilman Heath: Does this mean that if you stipulate that the,qualifications;-will be added later that we have to go back and re -introduce this ordinance? Councilman Towner: He wants " amend Section 2201 B to determine what the qualifications are,, • Councilman Heath: That is still changing the ordinance,, Councilman Snyder: That is true,, We will have to go back,, Councilman Heath: That means we will have to go back and re -vote on it and change it again,, I think what we are talking about is superfluous,, We are going to have some standards to pick them by,, You mean we are going to list what we are going to require from the man? Councilman Towner: Councilman Heath: Only those minimum requirements. I don't see how you can do that,, Councilman Snyder: You have standards for every department head; you.have no standards for Councilmen; but here you are going to hire a man who is over all your department heads without any minimum standards. You can use the word "qualified" and Councilman Jett is right, it means nothing alone because who is to determine those qualifications unless you set them up by some minimum standard in your ordinance,, Mayor Barnes: I see a little bit of fault in what you are trying to do but I think for this evening and for the additional change that you see that is necessary I believe this is very true but I think for the purpose of this evening it could be read in "qualified city manager" or those agencies and any other agency of this type and then we would spell out qualified city manager by that portion of the ordinance that pertains to qualifications,, -24- • C. Co 3/4/63 CITY MANAGER'S ORDINANCE - Continued Councilman Snyder: Page Twenty -Five That is all I said,, We can leave it at 2201 B for the present and work on the qualifications, Councilman Towner: What we are doing here is just referring back to the ordinance that provides these minimum qualifications,, This is all it does in this proposed amendment. Mayor Barnes: Councilman Heath: to delay the.passing of this ordinance? Councilman Snyder: I think all we have to do is say "qualified". I have a question on the motion. This means, then, that we are going No, it doesn't. Councilman Heath: Because -- suppose we vote on it now just having the word "qualified" then three weeks from now we decide to make up the qualifications then we have to open up the ordinance and pass it all over again. I think this is •prolonging it. I don't see how you're going to benefit any more with the word "qualified". I would agree to the word "qualified" in there but to try and write some specific qualifications, I think you're wrong. Mayor Barnes: specifics for a qualified city manager. them. Councilman Towner: Mayor Barnes: Councilman Towner: Mayor Barnes: Councilman Snyder: I think if we say "qualified city manager" we already have our I don't think we have to rewrite Where are they? Check 2201 B. In other words you are unwilling to provide any other minimum standards? I think 2201 B should have some qualifications. I would ask that 2201 B be read. (So read by Mr. Flotten.) Councilman Towner: The problem is this: You have decided to abolish the use of qualified objective outside impartial personnel agencies. Mayor Barnes: -25- No. • Co Co 3/4/63 Page Twenty -Six CITY MANAGER'S ORDINANCE - Continued Councilman Towner: You have decided to make this per- missive and you have therefore eliminated any possibility of determination of qualifications other than those determined by the Councilmen who select the manager, This is the danger in it; this.is what we are trying to provide, is a floor, some minimum qualifications so we can be sure and the public can be sure.that this hiring exercised by three Councilmen will not be abused,, What we want is quality in a city manager. Why do you have objection to stating it? Councilman Heath: Whether we have an agency selecting candidates or whether.the Council selects them, the Council still sets the standards,, We set the,standards any how,, What are we trying to do? We tell an agency to select five people and we set the standards for them,, Councilman Snyder: I don't know why you're afraid to set standards in public,, I repeat that statement,, Mayor Barnes: I am not but I think it should take a little thought and I think if we are going to think this section out we should give them consideration,, • Councilman Heath: What is the motion? Councilman Towner: As a matter of fact, this doesn't change anything.and the addition of these qualifications for 2201 B because they are already there but it was at Councilman Jett's suggestion that we put it in to make this word "qualified".mean something Now the question whether or not we change 2201 B can be taken up at a later date,, Councilman Snyder: Councilman Heath: Councilman Jett: Mayor Barnes: Action on Councilman Snyder's motion: I agree,, All right,, Does this mean we approve this tonight? This is only one change,, Motion passed on roll call as follows. - Ayes: Councilmen Jett, Towner, Heath, Snyder, Mayor Barnes Noes: None Absent: None Councilman Snyder: This is only on the -amendment,, Mayor Barnes: Would anyone like to make a motion to the adoption of the ordinance as amended? -26- n C,, C,, 3/4/63 Page Twenty -Seven CITY MANAGER'S ORDINANCE ® Continued Councilman Snyder: I have an additional amendment. That is that a four-tod-one vote shall be required for approval of the city manager,, This is a change -in Section 2202, added on,, Councilman Towner: If I understand it this amendment is proposed to Section 2207 to require that the selection of a city manager be by a four -to -one vote.? Councilman Snyder: The final approval.of a city manager shall be by a four -to -one vote by a majority of four,, Mayor Barnes:. The motion failed for the lack of a second,, Councilman Towner: Just a moment,, If I understand it then, ®® of course I don't think any man should be wise to take a job of city manager unless he had 100% support which was what we had in the past,, The problem with this proposed change is that I haven't heard any discussion on its merits back and forth and I don't really know at this time as to whether I would agree with this •or whether it has merit or doesn't have merit and for that reason I would withhold a second,, I think the matter should be subject to some discussion,, Mayor Barnes:. The motion has failed for the lack of a second,, Councilman Heath: Mr,, Mayor, we have been told by the City Attorney numerous times that we do not have to have a motion and a second to introduce a motion,, I therefore will introduce the motion as written with the changes -just voted on containing the three parts,, Mr,, Mayor, I believe the ordinance is introduced,, Councilman Towner: Mayor Barnes: Councilman Heath: Councilman Jett: Motion passed on roll call as follows: I will make a motion,, I would like to have a motion and a second,, I will make a motion that the ordinance be introduced with the changes that were just voted on. Second the motion,, • Ayes: Councilmen Jett, Heath, Mayor Barnes Noes: Councilmen Towner, Snyder Absent: None ®�7- 9 Co Co 3/4/63 Page Twenty -Eight CITY MANAGER'S ORDINANCE - Continued Councilman Snyder: I would propose a second motion, that is that the City Attorney be instructed to consider those minimum qualifications to be inserted in Section 2201.B of the City Manager Ordinance and bring it back to the Council for study and.discussion, Councilman Towner: I think probably, Councilman Snyder, that the better thing to do before you instruct the City Attorney is to come up with a concrete proposal such as length of experience or source of experience or things of that nature, Councilman Heath: I think this is the.Council's Job, Councilman Snyder: Is the Council willing to discuss this item? Mayor Barnes: It will be discussed at .a later dateo Mr, William Jennings: You have heard testimony from the people here and have chosen to change the ordinance, In my estimation this would be the first step in . scuttling our good City Manager Ordinance and it makes me sick, Councilman Snyder. - Rev, John Gunn. - NEW APPOINTMENT TO RECREATION & PARKS COMMISSION. This can be put on the ballot at the next general election, We can also elect new Councilmen, Mayor Barnes.-- I would like to appoint Councilman Jett to the Parks and Recreation Commission and Councilman Heath is the alternate, Councilman Towner has a conflict with the East San Gabriel Valley Planning Committee on that same date, LEAGUE OF CALIFORNIA CITIES CONFERENCE SAN FRANCISCO - OCTOBER, 1963 40 Mayor Barnes.- Mr, Flotten would like to know where we want reservations and how many, How many :would like to go? This is next October, The headquarter hotel is the St, Francis, Councilman Heath: -28- Two here, 0 Co C. 3/4/63 -Page Twenty -Nine LEAGUE OF CALIFORNIA CITIES CONFERENCE - Continued Councilman Snyder: City Manager., Mr, Aiassa: Councilman Snyder: Councilman Towner: I can't goo If you think you might be able to go, put your reservations in; you can always cancel, All right. Two for me, Mayor Barnes: Two for me, also,, We want our Public Works Director, Planning Director, Parks Director, Police and Fire. We will leave this up to Mr. Aiassa, Councilman Heath: I would like authorization from the Council to sit in on the City Managers Panel at the League, Mayor Barnes: I think you can attend, Councilman Heath: No -- sit in on the panel and talk • about the City Manager's Ordinance. City Manager, Mro Aiassa: They select their panels, If you would like to be on the,panel I will make a personal effort to get you on it, Councilman Heath: All right. PLANNING COMMISSION ACTION FEBRUARY 20, 1963 Precise Plan No, 350 - Approved Ray Kilz Variance No, 428 - Carrol Construction Company - Approved Variance No, 429 - Approved Humble Oil and Refining Co, Variance No 426 - Approved Dennis L. Gibbs Precise Plan No, 353 - Approved Dennis L, Gibbs No comment from the Council. No comment from the Council, No comment from the Council, No comment from the Council, No comment from the Council, Councilman Snyder: I have two messages from the Planning Commission, One, at the appropriate time they feel that it is proper that they should participate in helping in the planning of a new post office site, -�9- Co Co 3/4/63 PLANNING COMMISSION - Continued Mayor Barnes: Councilman Snyder: Page Thirty We haven't-, the proper place as yet. , I said at the appropriate time, . Secondly, they are vitally interested in and wish to participate in the planning and development of the Civic Center, This is with Neptune and Thomaso They don't want to put any hand in, they gust want to be kept informed of what is going on. They don't want to influence the trend of the architecture or anything like that;.they merely want to be informed, Councilman Jett: But not to have a voice in it, Councilman Snyder: They are not asking for this, Councilman Towner: I think it is wise to have them kept up to date on this,,, Mayor Barnes: I think they should be invited and. I will rely on Mro Aiassa to take care of this, Whenever the Council has a meeting in regards to the plan, I think that the Planning Commission should be invited to sit in on these • meetings, Councilman Heaths Dr, Snyder, I think I didn't make myself clear and you related a message to the Planning Commission concerning back doors in buildings. My idea was that they should have back doors in every building and the Planning Commission Minutes quote you as saying we wanted two doors, Councilman Snyder: That is what I thought your intent was, You mean that it actually has to be a back door opposite the front door? Councilman Heath: Anywhere in the back of the building, Councilman Snyder: T he way they got it, they understood it technically had to be this wall, Councilman Heath,- Within reason on the side,, I am not restricting them to one wall. I would like to make it clear that my request for a study was to require a back door in every commercial building either in the rear wall or on a side wall near the rear,, • Councilman Heath: On this map for Scott presented at the hearing last week where they were granted commercial, this is Precise Plan 354, directly in back of this across the wash.it shows a piece of R-3 propertyo When was this ever zoned R-3? Planning Director, Mr, Joseph: This is the Pacific Development property, -30- • C. C. 3/4/63 Page Thirty -One PLANNING COMMISSION - Continued Councilman Heath: I don't think Pacific goes that far backo Planning Director, Mro Joseph: I believe that is R-A. I would say this: Whether it was R-3 or R-A, the Planning Commission discussion didn't have any bearing on this. The map was prepared by the Pond Engineering Company, CITY CLERK PROCLAMATION DEMOLAY WEEK, City Clerk, Mr,, Flotten: Mayor Barnes: RESOLUTION N0,, 2574 ADOPTED This is March 17th to March 24th. If there is no objection, I will so proclaim. (No objection voiced.) So proclaimed. The City Clerk presented: "A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF WEST COVINA DECLARING SUPPORT FOR THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS OF LOS ANGELES COUNTY RESOLUTION SUSTAINING AMENDMENTS AND MODIFI- CATIONS TO SECTION 143.3 OF THE STATE STREET AND HIGHWAY CODE" Mayor Barnes' Hearing no objections, we will waive further reading of�the body of the resolution, Councilman Towner: This is another attempt in cooperation with the Board of Supervisors to provide access to urban areas to the $500,000 in money that is provided every year which now goes only to the rural areas because they are the;only ones that can qualify under this statute. We are asking the Legislature to change the statute so we, too, can qualify along with the rural cities. Motion by Councilman Heath, seconded by Councilman Jett, that said resolution . be adopted. Motion passed on roll call as follows: Ayes: Councilmen Jett, Towner, Heath, Snyder, Mayor Barnes. - Noes: None - Absent: None Said resolution was given No. 2574, -31- Co Co 3/4/63 Page Thirty -Two CITY TREASURER Motion by Councilman Heath, seconded by Councilman Jett, that the Treasurer's Report for January, 1963, be received and placed on file, Motion passed on roll call as follows: Ayes: Councilmen Jett, Towner, Heath, Snyder, Mayor Barnes Noes: None Absent: None REQUEST FOR TEMPORARY USE PERMIT FROM RALPHS GROCERY COMPANY City Clerk, Mr, Flotten: We have an application for a temporary use permit, Ralphs Grocery Company, 635 North Azusa Avenue, They want to have a little fair up there with banners, lights, music, kiddie rides and clowns on March 21st through March.25th, Motion by Councilman Jett, seconded by Councilman Heath, and carried, that Ralphs,. Grocery Company be granted a temporary use permit for a fair for March 21st through March 25th, subject to staff approval. and inspection. CITY MANAGER REPORTS PROJECT 197 VINCENT AVENUE SIDEWALKS City Manager, Mr, Aiassa: Councilman Jett: Mayor Barnes: This property owner doesn't want sidewalks, If she doesn't want to pay for it, let's keep our original agreement, If we vote and agree to leave a void then it's as simple as that, City Manager, Mr, Aiassa: May I make one suggestion, that we put into the Minutes the report of Tom Dosh of March 1, 1963 because this outlines the problem so at least we will fill our requirement with the lady. Motion by Councilman Heath, seconded by Councilman Jett, and.carried, that Tom Dosh's report of March 1, 1963 re Project 197 - Vincent Avenue Sidewalks, • be placed in the Minutes, -32- L • Co Co 3/4/63 Page Thirty -Three PROJECT 197 - VINCENT AVENUE SIDEWALKS - Continued (The following is the -memorandum to George Aiassa from Thomas Jo Dosh, dated March 1, 1963,'re Project C-197 Vincent Avenue.Sidewalkso) 111. In consideration for dedicating 9' of right of way to the City, the property owner wishes to have the sidewalk installed and a 6' high wall constructed adjacent to property line to give them privacy. "2o In our most recent letter submitted to the Casnetsis° we informed them of the City's legal rights, in writing. This was done so that the property owner could never say we did not tell them of all the consequences. In other words, we indicated that Vincent Avenue was a major highway and that if the Council saw f'it they could require sidewalks and take the 9' at some time in the future. This was not 1yt&t. �ttTa statement of facto "3o Following my last conversation with Mrs. Casnetsis, we measured from the front of the house to the curb line to determine if her house was truly too close to the sidewalk for privacy. I was of the im- pression that it was and perhaps that they should have more privacy. However, our survey indicates a'set-back for the house of over 26, after dedication,. This is actually over one.foot more than the stan- da rd 25' set-backtherefore, if the sidewalk were installed in its normalplace, the Casnetsis' house would be set -back at least as much as the minimum which most people use. '4o I informed Mrs. Casnetsis that in order for the property owner to construct a 6' wall it would require a variance and a hardship would have to be shown. Since the set -back is normal, . it is hard to conceive a reason for a wall over`the 42' makimum.allowable. As a note of in- terest; total sidewalk construction cost would be around $200 inclu- ding incidentals and a 61 wall would cost approximately,$500o The. total right of way required by the City is approximately 910 squire feet.1 It is my opinion that the cost of the wall and sidewalk far exceeds the value of the R/Wo 1 15. I believe the City Council decision"was right to eliminate this sec- tion of sidewalk if the property owner refuses to dedicate the right of way. However, the property owners feel very, very strongly about this and we are only relating their viewpoint in addition to other factors, Thomas Jo Dosh Public Service Director" -33- • • C. c, 3/4/63 CITY MANAGER REPORTS -d Continued QUALIFIED REAL ESTATE APPRAISERS Page Thirty -Four City Manager, Mr, Aiassa: We are going to hold this off, There will be others coming in, WALNUT CREEK PARKWAY DEVELOPMENT City Manager, Mr,, Aiassa: I world like to make a report to the Council, We'have.-filed--a suit with the Superior Court, We have served all the applicants except.twoo . We should tale possession of.the land within 15 or 20 days after we have served and processed these people, Tonight I would like to have the Council accept the plans and specifications.for Walnut Creek Parkway improvement as approved by the Council, Motion by Councilman Heath, seconded by Councilman Towner, and carried, to accept the plans and specifications for Walnut Creek Parkway in the areas of Service Avenue and Sunset and authorize the City Engineer to call for bids, EMPLOYEES USING PRIVATE CARS FOR CITY BUSINESS City Manager, Mr, Aiassa: I have a memo from,the Finance Officer which I would like to have placed in the Minutes, Councilman Snyder: We can read it and bring it up at the next meeting, City Manager, Mr, Aiassa: All right, (The following is the memorandum to the City Manager from the Director of Finance, dated February 25, 1963, re Summary of Reports Concerning Methods of Compensating Employees for Providing Personal Cars for City Purposes,) "Memo To: City Manager From: Director of Finance "Subject: Summary of reports concerning methods of compensating employees for providing personal cars for city purposes. • "A. LISTING -OF REPORTS SUBMITTED TO DATE 111, Basic report entitled "Methods of Furnishing Transportation to City Employees for City Business" submitted October 24, 1962. 112. Supplemental report concerning the Chief of Police and Detectives submitted December 20, 1962. 113. Supplemental report concerning the Director of Public Service, City Engineer, and Public Works Inspectors submitted January 1, 1963. -34- Co Co 3/4/63 Page Thirty -Five EMPLOYEES USING PRIVATE CARS FOR CITY BUSINESS Continued 0 114. Supplemental report concerning the Building Inspectors and the Park and Recreation Employees submitted February 21, 1963. "Bo BASIC CONSIDERATIONS SUPPORTING RECOMMENDATIONS PRESENTED IN SECTION C 111. Payments to employees for providing their own cars become a matter of interest for several reasons-. "ao Police Detectives indicated dissatisfaction with the present policy of reimbursing at $008 per mile; "bo A desire to review the flat allowances, usually of $75 a month (since these allowances were established several years ago, salary levels have improved and there has been a change in the number of miles required to be driven in some instances); "c. A general suspicion of flat allowances.paid routinely without presentation of a demand for payment or evidence that expense in the amount of $75 was incurred in carrying out City Business; and "do The dissatisfaction of certain employees receiving token allow- ances for providing their own transportation. 112. ..There appeared to be dissatisfaction with payment of an allowance per mile travelled at a stated amount of.$o08, $a09, or $,10 per mile. It was felt that this allowance could be unfair to the em- ployee if he travelled relatively few miles. Similarly, it was felt that this type of payment could result in reimbursement in excess of reasonable costs if the employee travelled a relatively large number of miles. The problem seemed to be created by the lack of a suitable means to reimburse the employee for the large item of fixed monthly expense of furnishing a car --that of license, in- surance, and depreciation. There was also the companion problem of how to calculate this fixed monthly expense. 113. The Department of Finace questioned the equity of flat allowances. Certain employees receive the same allowances although some drive two or three times as many miles per month as other employees, Also, the Finance Department questioned the practice of generally paying flat allowances without the employee being required to sub- mit evidence that he had in fact provided a car and had incurred the expense for which he was claiming reimbursement. 114. The car pool vehicles were not.recording sufficient mileage to amortize their depreciation. "Co SUMMARY OF RECOMMENDATIONS Please see the attached summary. In reviewing it, keep in mind that the recommendations give weight to the past procedures and the fact that • these have become an accepted 'condition' of employment as far as the employees are concerned, that the garage facilities for repair of ve- hicles are limited, and that employees are reluctant.to pay for a part of the fixed operating expense of vehicles which, in their opinion, are being fully used (or worn out) on the job. (Reverence here is to the Police Detectives.) Finally,, it appears that there will never be a plan proposed that will provide an answer to this problem acceptable to all persons concerned. It is enough if a plan can be adopted that is reasonably fair, that is -35 Co Co 3/4/63 Page.Thirty-Six EMPLOYEES USING PRIVATE CARS FOR CITY BUSINESS Continued • "understood by the employees, and that is applicable to -all employees whose transportation needs are similar, Furthermore, more than one plan may be necessary to fairly treat an employee or group of employees whose transportation requirements may be significantly different from those of other employees or groups of employees. SUMMARY OF RECOMMENDATIONS General'Comments Factors other than estimated costs must be considered. These includes How much control does the City wish to exercise over the type of vehicle used? What fringe benefits the City wishes to accord to a particular job? What should be the general policy on transportation? Employee re- lations --will this plan be acceptable to,the employees and fair to the taxpayers: This is so because the cost variances of reasonable plans vary less than $10 per month per vehicle from the present plan of reim- bursement in the case of the majority of employees. The recommendations listed below are basically those reached by the City Council at the study session on this matter. Purchase of the Police Units seemed acceptable to end the dissatisfaction expressed by the Police'Officers with their current reimbursement rate of $,08 per mile and a reluctance to grant their request for a $012 per mile reimbursement. The Runzheimer Plan was apparently acceptable because it was based on the plan of an outside, unbiased, consulting firm which makes allowance for fixed cost and operating costs based on cost studies in this area. Thus it is thought to be equitable to the employee driving a few, an average, or many miles per month. Also claims for reimbursement to be submitted by the employee under this plan will provide information to review an- nually the need to provide transportation. A. Chief Sill Cost Chief Sill now receives $75.00 per month Furnish the Chief a vehicle under the lease 55.30 per month Bo Detectives Average of six (at $008 per mile) 88.56 per month City -owned compact, average -of six 82.58 per month Please note that the $88.56 cost per month is based on $008 per mileo The Police Officers are requesting $a12 per mile or an average of $132.84 per .vehicle per month. The Runzheimer Plan would cost $94.24 per month. City cars recommended because mileage of use will amortize costs, City • will have control of car used, and greater control of car°s utilization. Co Public Works and Building Inspectors Presently receive, flat 75.00 per month Runzheimer Plan 80.00 per month Averaging the mileage of the seven employees as reported by them, the Runzheimer Plan costs slightly more than a plan of reimbursement at $008 per mile (which is considered to be a little low) and costs slightly less than payment at $010 per mile (which is considered a little -too high). Also, the Runzheimer Plan provides for reporting, review, and auditing of miles travelled and for which reimbursement is claimed. -36- Co Co 3/4/63 Page Thirty -Seven EMPLOYEES USING PRIVATE CARS FOR CITY BUSINESS - Continued • "Do Public Service Directors Thomas Dosh • Presently receives, flat $25.00 per month Suggested that he use car pool at 6.99 per month Finance understood that it was the concensus at the Council Study Ses- sion on this subject that Mr. Dosh be authorized to take a car-pool ve- hicle since.his greatest need for transportation is in the evenings and week -ends. Ea Park and Recreation Directors Robert Gingrich Now receives, flat 75.00 per month Lowest cost method would be to allow Mr. Gingrich to use a car-pool vehicles, 18.35 per month or at a Runzheimer Plan at 68.76 per month Please note that Mr. Dosh and Mr. Gingrich are agreeable to cancel- ling Mr, Gingrich's $75.00 per month allowance if Mr. Gingrich can have use of a car-pool vehicle for evening meetingso Mr. Gingrich apparently needs transportation for night meetings and week -end functions. If this is not permitted, the Runzheimdr Plan is suggested. Fa Others The Council suggested continuance of the $50 flat allowance for Mr, Pontow, $25 flat allowance for Mr. Flotten, and continuance of the $10 allowance for Mrs. Merry. All of the above appear reasonable close in cost to other commonly accepted methods of computing expense to justify their acceptance. James Kay, Jr, Director of Finance" -37- Co C, 3/4/63 CITY MANAGER'S REPORTS m Continued • PROJECT C®146 MER.CED ALIGNMENT Page Thirty -Eight City Manager, Mr. Aiassa, We have had meetings with Mr, Redfelt and Mr. Nagel and have made many contacts by phone and in person, Mr,, Nagel wants $5,000 for his front parcel and Mr. Redfelt can't make up his mind, We would like to recommend that we authorize an appraisal of these two parcels inasmuch as Mr. Cox is making an appraisal for the Skelton property, He has agreed to do the additional work for a cost not more than $250, Motion by Councilman Jett, seconded by Councilman Heath, and carried, that the City Manager be authorized to engage Vern Cox to make the appraisal on the Redfelt and Nagel properties, the fee not to exceed $250,000 - BEER TAVERNS City Manager, Mro Aiassao I will give you a report and you can look at it and we can talk about t at the next meeting, I have one suggestion, If you gentlemen read these reports we w i 11 ubmit them informally to the A.B.C. to make them cognizant of some of our problems here, Councilman Snyder, I think that taverns are legal by State law, by Federal law, but I think what we are really trying to do is keep taverns in the commercial areas and I wonder if there is any method of control to prevent taverns from ever going into small neighborhood shopping centers, I think this is what we want to avoid, Mayor Barnes, In this report that they have given us, have they checked these same conditions in other cities in comparison to our own or are they just evaluating our own situation? City Manager, Mr, Aiassa, A lot of the cities have not had the surge that we have had; a lot of cities have had them and there is not much they can do about them, We are in a position now to make this from getting worse, Mayor Barnes-, Check those cities to see what their reaction would be to any increase of these taverns and what their problems are, �ity Managers Mr, Aiassa, They brought this up at their district zone meeting and this has been an item of contention and especially since we have had those beer joints, Councilman Snyder, I think some discussion should be had concerning a method of control, Ca Co 3/4/63 BEER TAVERNS.- Continued City Managers Mr,, Aiassa,. Councilman Snyder,. in a C-1 zone but not in a -- City Managers Mr,, Aiassa,. Page Thirty -Nine I believe we will have to make a proposal of a State amendment,, Is it legal for a city to pass any ordinance saying that they can go Yes,, Councilman Snyder,. What I have in mind is a C-1 area like Safeway up here,, That is a small neighborhood shopping center and it has homes in very.close proximity and it seems to me this is the kind of a place you don't want a tavern and this is the kind of a place you want to avoid them in,, Councilman Jett,. Anytime you apply for a liquor license you post the property and AoB,,C,, has hearings and you have every right to come in and voice a complaint and it is given full consideration,, I think this is enough safeguard,, Councilman Snyder,. • Councilman Heath,. I think it has worked well in the past but I am not sure A.B.C. always listens to this,, What will this serve to do? I think that they will look at it and say "Yes, we know it",, City Manager, Mr Aiassa,. If you make a report to the A,,B,,C,, and they have a chance to look at the area, when a man makes an application for additional new license then they can notify us and they can also explain to the people and they have the authority to not grant a new liquor license,, Councilman Jett,. Possibly we just move this be tabled,, Councilman Heath,. I so move,, Councilman Jett,. Second the motion,,- ._ Councilman Towner,. This is true,, If you bring this to their attention then you alert their agents.and the area officer is charged and they will send their agent in this area,, If you are quiet about it then they concentrate their efforts on other areas,, I think it is important,, Councilman Heath,. Mayor Barnes: I don't think we have enough here to yell about; 65 a year,, Let's give it some further thought,, -39- C. C. 3/4/63 CITY MANAGER REPORTS - Continued 0 TAPE RECORDER City Manager, Mr. Aiassao Councilman Heath., City Manager, Mr. Aiassao Mayor Barnes., Councilman Jett: Councilman Snyder: Page Forty You have a report on this. I will bring this up later. Do we eliminate the secretary? No. We have this also and we file this. I am not for the tapes. These tapes go on file. Almost every city has this. I don't understand the purpose of this. Councilman Jett'. I'll tell you the reason I have been requesting it. Our Minutes do not reflect all -the conversation, all the facets that are discussed in this Council meeting. I have looked through the Minutes on many occasions and hey do not show what I am looking for. If we have a tape recording then we can refer back and we can know verbatim what was said and there is no question about it. I think this is very important9 it is for me because my memory is not t'oo good. Mayor Barnes. I think we should read the report and discuss this at our next meeting. Councilman Snyder: I like the transcribing method better,, how bad my English is. I honestly feel use. I have no objection to it but I think that taping is superfluous. Of course the tape recorder would show that these tapes will be of very little Councilman Jett.- There are remarks that you made that I took exception to; it is not in the Minutes and these are some of the things that I want to see in the Minutes. When we want to refer back to some of these things we can find the remarks that are made. Councilman Snyder: If that happened and you referred to the tape then you would have to make a motion that we listen to the tape and insert these remarks in the Minutes. If you ever look at the Congressional Record, it says at the end that every Congressman has the right to add to, extend or delete from any remarks he has de on the floor. This is one privilege that Congress has that the Council uoesn't but I think it has a lot of value because I think sometimes in the heat of argument we may not say things as clearly as we would like and you should have a chance to clarify them in the printed word. Councilman Jett: I think you should think before you make.a remark. -40- Co Co 3/4/63 CITY MANAGER REPORTS - Continued •Councilman Snyde,rs argument on the use of a tape recordero Councilman Heaths Page Forty - One I am not apologizing for any remarks I have made; I am merely making an On second thought, I think I would like to see this recorder,) too,, Councilman Snyders If there were remarks that I made that were not in the Minutes that Mr. Jett would like to take exception to, I suggest that he put in writing what he thought I said and if I said them I will see to it that they are inserted in the Minutes, Councilman Heaths REVISION OF SECTION 4102 WASTE WATER IN STREETS Let's hold it over but I would like to leave it on the agenda. City Manager® Mr, Aiassao We are having a bad experience here and the staff has submitted this Weport to the Council,, I would like to have you review this report and see if we can get.some discussion on it next meeting. Mayor Barnes; SIDEWALK PETITION CAMERON AVENUE BETWEEN AZUSA AND LARK ELLEN Mayor Barnes-, All right,, I think we have all read the petition. Motion by Councilman Jette seconded by Councilman Snyder,) and carried, that this petition be submitted to the Engineering Office for report on the litho Councilman Snyder-, I would think this would be one that would be high on the priority list, CAB INSPECTION ity Manager, Mr, Aiassa-, At the request of the Council I finalized your final cab reports, I would like to have this copy placed on file so it shows they have been through inspection, Irm Co Co 3/4/63 Page Forty�Two CITY MANAGER REPORTS - Continued 0 Motion by Councilman Jett, seconded by Councilman Towner., and carried, that the report on the cab inspection be accepted and placed on file,, r L PARK AND RECREATION DEL NORTE & ORANGEWOOD PARK LAND COST OF ADJACENT PROPERTY City Manager, Mr,, Aiassao if this is spread in the Minutes,, You have all received copies of this and I think it might be a good idea Motion by Councilman Heath, seconded by Councilman Jett, and carried, that the City Manager be instructed to ascertain if the land adjacent to the Orangewood and the, land adjacent to the Del Norte parks are still.available and at what price and that we attempt to have an answer by two weeks from tonight, if possible,, Councilman Towner: Whatever happened to Palmview Park acquisition of land? ity Manager, Mr Aiassao It is on your agenda,, -42- Co C,, 3/4/63 CITY MANAGER REPORTS - Continued DUMP SITE CONTROL Page Forty -Three City Manager,, Mr,, Aiassa,. At the request of the Council you wanted to know what hours they are open,, According to Mro Dair of the County Sanitation District the Shoal Dump is open eight to four -thirty except Sundays and holidays,, The actual filling operation is a little longer but these are the hours when the public is served,, Councilman Snyder: I think there should be some distinction made between the hours it is open to the public and the hours the machinery is used, Mayor Barneso I feel very good information along these lines could be obtained from Mr,, Bauerman.who controls and operates the three main dump.sites in the County of Los Angeles,, I would like to see the controls put on the present sites headed by Mr,, Bauerman,, I also refer to the joint powers agreement which you have in your office that I gave you from Mr,, Parkhurst,, This might be a good reference,, City Manager, Mr,, Aiassao *ayor Barnes,, W,, McCANN PARTIAL PAYMENT ON CONTRACT ($450) Should we accept this report? All right,, City Manager, Mr,, Aiassao I have a request for payment,, He has made the complete rough report and we haven't paid him since November 15, 1962. Motion by Councilman Towner, seconded by Councilman Jett, that Mr,, W. McCann be paid the amount of $450,,00,, Motion passed on roll call as follows,. Ayes,. Councilmen Jett,, Noes. None Absent, None BARKER DEED Towner, Heath, Snyder, Mayor Barnes City Manager, Mr,, Aiassa. Ottorney for the meeting of the llth. We need a resolution to accept these,, I will refer these to the City (Read memo regarding this matter,,) Motion by Councilman Jett., seconded by Councilman Snyder, and carried,, to authorize the Engineering Department to write a letter to Mr,, Barker, -43- Co Co 3/4/63 CITY MANAGER REPORTS-- Continued PLAQUE REGIONAL LIBRARY Page Forty -Four City Manager, Mro Aiassa.- Does the.Council want me to prepare a plaque for the new regional library? We can duplicate the Countyfls,, There is one on the building already but it gust designates the County and not the City,, I would like the same kind of a plaque as the County°s,, It would be on the opposite side,, Councilman Jett., I think there should be a plaque,, Councilman Heatho I don't think we should,, On a County library we are going to put a City plaque? Councilman Snyder.- It is a regional library,, Councilman Towner.- I think if we put one up it should just have the Mayor at the top and the Councilmen in office when it was approved and the City Manager and the date,, lotion by Councilman Jett, seconded by Councilman Towner, that the plaque for. the regional library be approved and that the Councilmen who_were in office at that time, that their names appear plus the City Manager,, Motion passed on roll call as follows, Ayes., Councilmen Jett, Towner, Heath, Snyder, Mayor Barnes Noes.- None Absent.- None GALSTER DEED City Manager, Mr,, Aiassa., You have a proposal that Mr,, Galster would like to have you review on the 31 and a half acres of property he wants to dedicate for the park,, Mayor Barnes.- This was drawn up by Mr. Williams but Mr. Galster's attorney hasn't had the chance to look at this and I would like to wait until next week until he has had this chance,, City Manager, Mr,, Aiassa.- This is what I was going to suggest,, I think the Council should look at his also,, You should know what you're getting,, Co C, 3/4%63 CITY MANAGER REPORTS - Continued *GAS TAX RATES (OTHER STATES) City Manager, Mr, Aiassa., I we Heath for all the gas tax rates of all the goes in your folder, Page Forty- Five would like the record to show that have followed the request of Mr, states of the United States, This Motion by Councilman Heath, seconded by Councilman Jett, and carried, to accept this map and that it be placed on file, SUBSTATION City Manager, Mr, Aiassao comments or questions, please notify me, LETTER FROM L. G. VILLASCUSA We are getting a progress schedule on the substation, If you have any You have all received a written reports by Louis Go Vi.l.l.ascusa Wounciiman Heath., :I think he didn't go quite far enough, We now have the two sides of the story and I think it would be fitting fir someone, either the City Manager or the Chief, to sit this fellow down and find out exactly why he changed his story and confront him with these comments, Either make him back down or make him admit, City Manager, Mr, Aiassa., Mayor Barnes., referred to the City Attorney, say what should be said, l would like not do do anything until. we converse with the City Attorney, I talked with Mr, Aiassa in regards to this and I feel this should be I don't think we have the legal minds to Councilman Jett., I feel exactly the same way Councilman Heath does except I think the City Attorney with our Police Chief 3hou;id be the ones to pursue this and let them carry the ball, Motion by Councilman Heath, seconded by Councilman Towner, and carried, that the Chief of Police be instructed to invite this individual to the Police Station and present to him the results of the report to determine why if the man changed his story and exactly what his reasons were for writing the •letter and further that the City Attorney be in attendance at the time of the interview if such a meeting is thought advisable by our City Attorney, -45- C, C, 3/4/63 Page Forty -Six CITY MANAGER REPORTS ® Continued 0 FIRE STATION AND City Manager, Mr, figures, I would get it ready to g We do have enough LIBRARY LANDSCAPING PLAN Aiassa-. I have a map for the Council, You have received copies of the cost like to get started on this landscaping thing so we could D when we get ready to open the new proposed fire station, money in our budget, Motion by.Councilman Jett, seconded by Councilman Towner, that the landscaping plan for the fire station and library be accepted and that the City Manager be authorized to proceed, Motion passed on roll call as follows.- Ayes-, Councilmen Jett, Noes-, None Absents None MARSHALL PROPERTY Towner, Heath, Snyder, Mayor Barnes City Manager, Mr, Aiassa.- I had the Fire Chief lay it out so he can show how it can be used as it is now. I think we can use the facilities with a very minimum of disturbance except for the greenhouse, (Passed out copies of the report,) COUNCILMANIC REPORTS "WATER FOR WEST COVINA" Councilman Snyder.- Mrs, Brown came to me from the League of Women Voters and they are having a panel for the information of the public on the 26th of March, Tuesday afternoon, regarding "Water For West Covina" and she has been told we are to make our decision on the 25th, She is asking that we hold off this decision for one or two weeks until this meeting has been held, I think since we have already missed the boat under the historical plan that another week is not going to make any difference and I think she has a reasonable request, Mayor Barnes-, I think we will have to bring it up on the 25th but I think what Dr. Snyder is asking is to postpone it until one week until the public and we have the benefit of this meeting, •Councilman Jett,. Councilman Snyder-. Cant we postpone it on the 25th? Can't we do it now so they can be sure? or M. Co Ca 3/4/63 COUNCILMANIC REPORTS - Continued •Councilman Heath: Page Forty -Seven What they will discuss will not be new evidence to youo Councilman Towner: It may prove to be new evidence in view of the fact that the vote in the Upper District is going to take place in the interim, Councilman Snyder; I don't think it makes any difference whether there is new evidence,, I don't think it will hurt to cooperate with Mrs,, Brown because I think we will need her help later,, Motion by Councilman Jett, seconded by Councilman Snyder, and carried, that the decision on the water question be postponed to the April 8, 1963 meeting,, COUNCIL PROCEDURE Councilman Snyder; What is the correct procedure for a Councilman who feels he has an item he would like put on the agenda? It is my understanding that any 0ouncilman has a right to request that an item be put on the agenda,, Councilman Towner; Section 2205,,1., Regular Order of Business., may be suspended by a majority of the Council members present,, Councilman Jett; I don't think ,you would request it be put on the agenda. You could request that it be brought up in the meeting,, Councilman Towner; No matter can be considered by the City Council other than those items put on the agenda without the consent of the Council at the meeting,, Councilman Heath; I think that should be changed,, I think any Councilman ought to be able to bring up any item and put it on the agenda Councilman Heath; I would like to know something along the same line,, About three months ago in study session I asked for a report to be made to me on speed and channelization of traffic and I was told that I couldn't direct the staff to do any work unless I had Council action,, If I have to have Council action to ask for a study to be made then I think something is wrong,, By the same 4 :ken, I see there is a report in our papers tonight on juvenile delinquency hat I don't know that this Council ever approved that we make. It was made at the request of Councilman Towner,, Do we have to have a Council action to ask for a study to be made or don't we? I think it is ridiculous if you do,, -47- C, Co 3/4/63 Page Forty Eight CITY MANAGER REPORTS - Continued n LJ Councilman Towner, The report on delinquency was prepared pursuant to a request made in a public Council meeting, I don't know whether we took a vote on it or not, There was no objection or question raised, Councilman Snyder, Any Councilman has the right to go to the staff to obtain items of information, not for directing studies to be made, City Manager, Mr, Aiassa, We will do anything the Council asks us to do but if I get miles of requests from all different Councilmen and in all different directions, there will be no time to do work, Councilman Heath, I want an explanation of why do I have to have Council action to get any kind of a report or something done and why does it have to be done in Council meeting, We are Councilmen; we should be able to have material given to us that we need �o do our work, I think it should be left up to the discretion of the Councilmen and I think the Councilmen are intelligent enough to know when they are going to disturb the whole City staff and not make unreasonable demands but I think they should be at least entitled to ask that certain things be looked into, • Move that the ordinance be changed to permit individual Councilmen to ask for studies to be made which can be done within 24 hours of work time, City Manager, Mr, Aiassa, Mayor Barnes, May I make a comment? After we have a second, Councilman Jett, I feel that a Councilman should have the right to come in and ask for information that would not involve a lot of personnel or a lot of time.or things of that nature, I have requested in the past for reports and I don't get those reports, Councilman Heath, A citizen can write a letter into the City asking for or stating that certain things should be done and the City staff picks it up without an order from the Council, spends maybe 3, 49 5 days on the thing and then gives us a report on it, What magic does a citizen have over the Council? Councilman Snyder, The kind of letters you are talking about are administrative, It is only good public relations that they have this information ready for us when this letter is presented to us, I think that there is no need to change the rdinance; we have the right to ask for information now and you are suggesting hat we have a right to order studies which requires City time, money and economy, Also, what if five Councilmen ask the same department head for a different study on the same day within 24 hours? -48- Co Co 3/4/63 Page Forty -Nine COUNCILMANIC REPORTS - Continued •City Manager, Mr, Aiassa: We will do anything the Council wants but I would like to have something that I have in writing or something that will direct me so that.I don't get my staff working on something and then the Council wants to know why I am not doing the administrative job that I am supposed to do, Councilman Jett: Why don't we give a little bit more thought to this matter and come up with a little more.thought on this, Mayor Barnes: The motion failed for the lack of a second. Motion by Councilman Heath, seconded by Councilman Jett, that this consideration be put on the agenda for further study, Motion passed on roll call as follows: Ayes: Councilmen Jett, Towner, Heath, Mayor Barnes Noes: Councilman Snyder Absent: None Councilman Snyder: I think that we can do that now and we have 48 other items to consider, • Why throw this in? EDGEWOOD LEAGUE Councilman Heath: I have one request from the Edgewood League, They have a petition to the people who live on Vanderhoof Drive to permit them to put a public address system on the Edgewood Maverick Field, This is on the Valencia Heights Water property, This is leased by the City and subject to an unclassified use permit that prohibits a public address system. Now they have the signatures of the people lining the bluff along the field and they want to know what procedure they have to take to get this changed, without the possibility of having to go through filing fee and like that, Councilman Jett: Couldn't that be initiated by the Council and the fees waived? City Manager, Mr, Aiassa: The Council can, by motion, direct the Planning Commission to initiate this unclassified use permit and it will not require a fee because if it is initiated by the City Council and the Commission it does not require a fee, 46otion by Councilman Heath, seconded by Councilman Towner, and carried, o refer this matter to the Planning Commission to initiate an amendment to the unclassified use permit and that the proponents would be required to get their own drawings, -49- Co Co 3/4/63 COUNCILMANIC REPORTS - Continued • MITZI'S SAMPLE SHOP Page Fif ty Councilman Jett: (Read letter regarding this matter.) Not knowing all the procedures and everything, apparently the appeal time went by,, Can we call this up for hearing? Councilman Heath: Not very well without doing it for somebody or anybody else, Councilman Snyder: Can we extend the appeal date? City Managers Mr,, Aiassa: Mr. Williams will be here Wednesday,, We will talk it over and see what he suggests,, Councilman Jett: I'll give you this letter and you can take it up with him,, City Managers Mr,, Aiassa: All right,, Councilman Heath: I would like the City Manager to furnish me with a copy of the �Iinutes relating to Mr. Renwick's statement there,, City Managers Mr,, Aiassa: All right,, Mayor Barnes: I would like copies to go to all the Council regarding this matter,, INTERNAL REVENUE OFFICE GROUNDBREAKING Councilman Jett: This week I was requested to appear at the groundbreaking for the Internal Revenue Office,, On arriving at the site I met Mr. Smith who is John Smith who is supervisor of the area or something,, He is one of the executives. I also met Mr. McNalleys, who will be the man in charge of the West Covina Office and also three gentlemen there from the Pomona Offices the contractor who is building the building and the owner of the property,, I told them I was happy to finally see them getting under way. One of them said that we are lucky we got them in here,, He said that after all the red tape and trouble they had gone through in the City of West Covina, had they had any idea that this was going to happen that they would never have put this building in West Covina,, I asked him what trouble he had had and he said they had trouble getting approval; things that never happened to them n any other city. They said that we have delayed them for one year,, What I would like to have from the City is a complete report of every delay that was caused these peoples what department caused the delay and the reason for this delay. I told them I would do this,, I want to go back,, I think this is important enough that we get a complete report and that every Councilman get this report,, Co Co 3/4/63 Page Fifty -One COUNCILMANIC REPORTS - Continued •Mayor Barnes: After I talked to Mr. Aiassa about this I was of the same opinion so I asked that such a report be made,, They have given us the report, Councilman Snyder: We had a letter in here from a citizen regarding our Police Department and we voted to wait until we heard both sides of the storyo I don't think we have heard in detail these people's chargeso Just because they made them does not make it true,, I would like to have more detail of what those charges are,, I think it is up to the man who made the charges to tell us what the delays are,, Councilman Jett: Mayor Barnes: Councilman Snyder: Councilman Jett: r� U VICTOR GRUEN I want this report. I will give this to Mr. Aiassa and would you make this a report in writing to all the Council? I would like to hear both sides,, I told you this side that I heard,, I want this report and then I am going back to these people,, Councilman Jett: On this letter to Mr. Aiassa from James Kay in reference to the funds source for Victor Gruen doing the work, I would like to know what project this money would be taken from,, (Read letter,) City Manager, Mr,, Aiassa: It is Item 4 on the agenda. I don't know when that will be coming up,, It wouldn't be taken from a project,, r We would take it from surplus and loan it to the Traffic Safety and it would be appropriated back. I have a report for you,, DELAYS IN THE RESIDENTIAL TRACT AT HOLLENBECK AND CAMERON Councilman Heath: I have another problem concerning delays. The residential tract at the corner of Hollenbeck and Cameron,, A statement was made to me that due *o the delays by the City that this has taken over two years to process. This is Weber -Is property,, I don't want to go back through dates and so forth but I think the thing that has happened in the past two to three weeks should be surveyed,, There was a long discussion about the drainage ditch that went across the corner of this property and since the people upstream had filled -51- Co Co 3/4/63 Page Fifty,Two COUNCILMANIC REPORTS - Continued 0. n the ditch somehow,or another Mr, Weber's tract filled in the ditch. Then I understand they came back and said he had to take all the dirt out and put in pipe and then they decided not to do this but go onto the property adjacent and fill up that ditch for the man which wasn't on Weber's property, It all sounds like a hodge-podge and I don't know what it is. This was the story given to me by Mr. Weber and I don't know the details of it, Mayor Barnes; and he should report on the easement Lark Ellen and Valinda, On Merced, City Manager, Mr, Aiassa; Councilman Heath: I called the City Manager about this and Mr. Aiassa will report on this for the storm drain on Cameron between I'll have Mr. Dosh confer with Mr, Heath and have him tell him what he told you, All right, City Clerk, Mr, Flotten: Mr, Weber was required to file again with the Planning Commission, It was understood that was what he was going to have to do. He is going to make a formal application to get that money back because it never did go through planning again, MAYOR'S REPORTS SANTA FE DAM SITE (RECREATIONAL AREA) Mayor Barnes: Duarte Chamber of Commerce has asked the City of West Covina to support them again on the Santa Fe Dam Site for a recreational area, They now want to ask for a public golf course in this area. How does the Council feel about supporting Duarte Chamber of Commerce in their efforts? Councilman Heathe I think we should, Councilman Towner: I thought we did that at one time, Mayor Barnes: That was for recreational purposes only, Now they are asking that the County install a public golf course, City Manager, Mr, Aiassa: Have we referred that to our City Chamber of Commerce to see how they feel about it? Councilman Heath: I think this is the policy of the Council. The question is whether the City wants to back Duarte in requesting a golf course be put up there behind the Santa Fe Dam, -52- 0 Co Co 3/4/63 MAYOR'S REPORTS - Continued Wouncilman Snyder: Page Fifty -Three I think a resolution from Mr. Flotten might -'be helpful,, Mayor Barnes: Mr,, Flotten can draft a resolution and I will attach a letter that we are also referring this to the West Covina Chamber of Commerce,, Motion by Councilman Heath., seconded by Councilman Jett, and carried., that a resolution be prepared from the City Council of West Covina as requested in the letter from Duarte concerning the golf course at the Santa Fe Dam site and that the letter be forwarded to the Chamber of Commerce for their resolution,, There being no further hlzsiness., Motion by Councilman Jett, seconded by Councilman Heath, and carried, that this meeting be adjourned at 12:25 A,,M,, APPROVED ATTEST City Clerk a. Mayor —53—